1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: And it's kind of that epiphany moment that either we're 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: going to do something or this might kill us and 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: we have another child and we can't do that. So 4 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: we sat and talked about all those times when Aaron 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: didn't get invited to birthday parties and didn't get the 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: invitation to go to the football games, and didn't get 7 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: asked to do things, and realized that if she had 8 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: had somewhere to go where she felt safe and could 9 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: have fun and it had absolutely nothing to do with therapy, 10 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,800 Speaker 1: just fun, just fun to be with other kids and 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:01:01,240 Speaker 1: meet other kids and create friendships, that she probably would 12 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: still be with us today. 13 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney. 14 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 2: I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, 15 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 2: I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach in 16 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: inner City Memphis. And the last part it unintentionally led 17 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 2: to an oscar for the film about our team, which 18 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 2: is called Undefeated. I believe our country's problems will never 19 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice 20 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: suits talking big words that nobody really ever uses or 21 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 2: understands on CNN and Fox, but rather an army of 22 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 2: normal folks, us just you and me deciding, Hey, I 23 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 2: can help. That's what Stacy Horse the voice we just 24 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 2: heard has done. Stacy's daughter, Aaron, was bullied and excluded 25 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: by her peers because she had autism, and tragically, that 26 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: isolation led to her taking her own life at only 27 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: sixteen years old. Stacy and her husband Darren chose not 28 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: to be victims, and they started the nonprofit Aaron's Hope 29 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 2: for Friends to create physical clubs where kids with autism 30 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: can hang out on the weekends and just be buddies, 31 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: you know, enjoy friendships as we're all meant to. I 32 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: can't wait for you to meet Aaron. Right after these 33 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: brief messages from our generous sponsors, Stacy Horst, how are you? 34 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 1: I'm good, How are you good? 35 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 2: Welcome to Memphis. 36 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: Thank you. 37 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 2: I before we even begin, I've got to I got 38 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: to give you props. You're one of what I hope 39 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 2: is the first of many. But you're a groundbreaker for 40 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: an army of normal folks. Did you know that? 41 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: No? I did not. 42 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: You are And here's what it is. So far. Every 43 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 2: guest we've had, Alex our producer, and Ironlight Labs and 44 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: the people that make this show happen have worked really 45 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 2: hard to find compelling stories of normal folks doing extraordinary 46 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 2: things all over the country, and they found them through 47 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: pouring through media and articles. And I guess it's good 48 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: we're talking about this because one of the questions I 49 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 2: get often is how do you find all these people? 50 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: And that's how they've done it. But you are the 51 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: first of the organic what I'm going to call the 52 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: organic guest in that we didn't find you that way, 53 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: you found us. I remember opening an email from you 54 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:50,320 Speaker 2: not that long ago. What was it a month ago? Month? 55 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: How long ago? 56 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,119 Speaker 1: Probably two two and a half months? 57 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: Again, I think so, yeah, early on in our release 58 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: and Stacy Horst is our first or grown army of 59 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 2: normal folks guests. I wish I had a belderin Yeah 60 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: you are. You are a woo who we are. This 61 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: is a woo who moment for us, And really you 62 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 2: exemplify a microcosm of what the whole idea is. We're 63 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: trying to grow a community that celebrates and listens and 64 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 2: learns and and and grows off one another. And so 65 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 2: you are the first of that community, and so you 66 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: will always hold a special place in the history of 67 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,159 Speaker 2: an army of normal folks, being the first organic guest 68 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: we have, so in a very real sense, welcome and 69 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: thanks for being here. 70 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, thank you for what you're doing. 71 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 2: Oh well, thank you for what you're doing. And I 72 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,279 Speaker 2: got to tell you when I read your email, and 73 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: we're not going to get to it yet. Ah wow, 74 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 2: my heart skipped to beat. And I find the work 75 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: what you're doing to be remarkable. Frankly, the the depth 76 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: of the of the person you and your husband are 77 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: is immeasurable in my opinion, and and we're going to 78 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 2: share all of that. So tell me about Rachel. Oh 79 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: not now, Rachel coming up. 80 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: Rachel coming up. Oh wow, she's a lot of fun. 81 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 2: She loved fun. 82 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: No, she's just she was a very fun kid, very sassy, 83 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:36,919 Speaker 1: but very sweet. She was a good older sister. She 84 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: you know, just. 85 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: She she loved the arts, she. 86 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: Loved to she did. Both of our girls did everything. 87 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: They played sports, they did arts, you know, involved in church. 88 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: And Rachel ended up both of the girls ended up 89 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: going finishing school in Atlanta because that's where we ended up. 90 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: And she ended up going to Savannah College of Art 91 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: and Design. And she's a photographer. 92 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: That's very cool. Yeah, she and she's married now. 93 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: She is, she's married. Her husband also went to SCAD 94 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: and that's where they met. 95 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: Wow, that's the Archie family. To the have kids. 96 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: They have one little boy who just. 97 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: Turned to he's probably a meatthead football player. And I'll 98 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 2: never do the arts. That'll probably what will happen. 99 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll see, We'll. 100 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 2: See pretty art. We'll see, all right, And so tell 101 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 2: us about erin Oh. 102 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:42,679 Speaker 1: Aaron loved animals. Aaron was a very sweet little girl, 103 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: as we'll talk about. She was diagnosed with autism when 104 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 1: she was three, and really her passion was animals. She 105 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: also played sports. She played every sport known to man, 106 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:06,480 Speaker 1: and she loved to give away her stuff. Nothing that 107 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: she had was hers. Everything she had could be somebody else's. 108 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: If she saw that somebody needed something, she would come 109 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: home and get it and go give it to them 110 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: without telling us. By the way, she played the drums, 111 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: she was an awesome drummer. She was in a band 112 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: and one of the kids at school, who was also 113 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: in the band and played the drums, needed a kick pedal, 114 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: and she had two. Don't know if you have kids 115 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: that played musical instruments. But this stuff is not cheap, 116 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: it's expensive. Yes, and she came home and took the 117 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: kick pedal back to school the next day and gave 118 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: it away and we found out weeks later. 119 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: So she's a sweet kid. Oh yeah, and loved animals. Yes, yes, 120 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: I got to ask you how you know people listening 121 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 2: to us are going to hear this whole story end up. 122 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 2: But I gotta I gotta get to get to what 123 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: you're doing and why I really want to put a 124 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 2: face on both Aaron and your family. Three. Now, when 125 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:32,319 Speaker 2: you say she was diagnosed with you said level one autism? 126 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,320 Speaker 2: Is that how you say it? I think that was 127 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 2: formally referred to as aspergers? Am I right about that? 128 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: Yes? 129 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: Why don't we call it aspergers anymore? 130 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: That's a good question. I'd like to know that myself. 131 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: They chose to change the d s M five, which 132 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: is where you go for diagnoses, and they put every 133 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: they lumped everything under ASD which is autism spectrum disorder. 134 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: Why they did that, I don't know. Because these teens, 135 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: young adults, children who are in level one or Aspergers 136 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: are and can be much different than what level three 137 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: would be which could be nonverbals. 138 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 2: How many levels are there? 139 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: Three? 140 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: There are three, so I'm assuming then one is the 141 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 2: slightest level, then two, then three is the deepest level. 142 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 2: I'm asking, I don't know, I really is that right? 143 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: Yes, that's right. 144 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 2: You know so many people are blind to autism that 145 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 2: they don't really understand. I mean, you know, is a 146 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 2: level one person functioning in a way that maybe you 147 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 2: wouldn't know unless you just got up close and talked 148 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 2: to them. Because I hear you say, she'll have animals, 149 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:06,200 Speaker 2: she played sports? Was she you know, mainlined in school? 150 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 2: You see what I'm saying, You explain that existence. 151 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: I think that it's yes. I think that you can 152 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: look at people in level one unless you go up 153 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: to them and have a conversation with them, because basically, 154 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: one of their biggest deficits is their social interactions, like 155 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: you and I are sitting here looking at each other 156 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: in the eye having a conversation, where they find that 157 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 1: extremely difficult to look you in the eye and to 158 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: have a conversation on point. For example, if Aaron was 159 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: in a group and they're talking about going to a 160 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 1: football game, and they were having a conversation and she 161 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: wanted to add something to the conversation. She would be 162 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:02,240 Speaker 1: standing there thinking about out what she wanted to say 163 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 1: for probably sixty ninety seconds before it would come out 164 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: of her mouth. Well, for us, sixty or ninety seconds 165 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 1: is a long time, and we've already we've already moved on, 166 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: Like we're not talking about the football game anymore. We're 167 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: talking about where we're going to have dinner or what 168 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: we're going to eat. So when they choose to say something, 169 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: then they're behind. And sadly, that's where a lot of 170 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: them get ridiculed or bullied because they're trying to fit 171 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: in and yet they're behind the eight ball in terms 172 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: of the conversation. And it's really a social thing. But 173 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 1: they're you know, their brilliance is amazing. 174 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 2: Could Aaron verbalize the world she saw differently than everybody 175 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 2: else to you? And would she do that with you? 176 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 1: Oh? Absolutely? 177 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: What would she say? What would the what did the 178 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: how did the world look different to Aarin as a 179 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 2: child with autism level one than it would do you 180 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 2: and me? Can you give me an example to help me? 181 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: And the listeners kind of go, oh, you know, I 182 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 2: didn't realize that they would see it that differently. I mean, 183 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 2: how would she verbalize that she would see things that 184 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,840 Speaker 2: were different than the way you would see them. 185 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing is the level of compassion, 186 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: the level of emotion, So how she felt and saw 187 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: in certain situations, whether it's at school, whether it's at home, 188 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: in the neighborhood with friends, it's like a richer emotion, 189 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: if you will, of caring for other people, where I 190 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: would say, I don't want to say, like we're more 191 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 1: crass and we just go about our day and do 192 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: what we want to do. But she, you know, we 193 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: do sense other people, but she would sense other people's emotions, 194 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: and especially in the essence of someone was sad, if 195 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: someone was hurt. 196 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 2: And now a few messages from our general sponsors, But 197 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 2: first I hope you'll consider following an Army of normal 198 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 2: Folks on all of our social media channels for more 199 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 2: powerful content, which is also great for sharing to help 200 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 2: grow the army. Our handle is at Army of Normal 201 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: Folks on all of them except Twitter, which I guess 202 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 2: is X these days, which is interesting because everybody says 203 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 2: X formally called Twitter, so we might as well just 204 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: call it Twitter whatever. At Army normal folks. We'll be 205 00:13:51,080 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: right back, I said earlier. When I got your email 206 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: that you know, it resonated with me deeply. So my 207 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 2: wife is she might kill me. She's fifty one, and 208 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: she has a sister that's in her forties, and that's 209 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,640 Speaker 2: the youngest, actually late thirties three youngest. She has a 210 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 2: brother that's in her forties. But when I met Lisa, 211 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 2: her little brother was eight. And his name's Ben, and 212 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 2: he's special needs, and his special needs is a result 213 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: of him having encephalitis when he was an infant. Ben 214 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 2: is highly functional, but has the mental capacity of you know, 215 00:14:54,600 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 2: maybe a first grader in that range. And one of 216 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 2: the beauties of Ben is that he can go to 217 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 2: Florida on trips, right, he can. He can ride an airplane, 218 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 2: and he can go with us to family vacations and 219 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 2: go out to eat and eat well. And he can 220 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: feed himself and dress himself and bathe himself and all 221 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 2: of those things. But I have watched my in laws 222 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 2: spend the last thirty two years of their life caring 223 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: for Ben in a way that is heroic. They gave 224 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 2: him every opportunity that they could give him within his 225 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: capabilities to have as normal life as possible while also 226 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 2: protecting him from the things that he can protect himself from. 227 00:15:53,720 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: He's been beaten by staff, care staff before, he's he's 228 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 2: endured trauma, and he has at times expressed his deep 229 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: sadness and grief that he wasn't normal. Heartbreaking, but in 230 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 2: the same respect, a real blessing to our family. When 231 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: I read your email, I felt you deeply. And the 232 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: reason I want to know what you felt like when 233 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 2: you found out that at three that Aaron had I 234 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 2: don't know. I want to call it Asperger's but I 235 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: think that's woke, incorrect, level one whatever was a child 236 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 2: with level one autism. I think that's why I was 237 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 2: supposed to say it properly. I mean no disrespect. I 238 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: think I know a little bit about what kind of 239 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: shock that was to your family dynamic, and it is, 240 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 2: to be perfectly candid, gut wrenching, but it's also what 241 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: God's put in your life, and it's a blessing you've 242 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 2: been given and you go to work. 243 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: Absolutely so what that work look. 244 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 2: Like from three to call it eight or nine years 245 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 2: old for you and Darren? And and why I ask 246 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 2: so much about was Rachel because I also understand the 247 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: dynamic of my wife when she was a teenager trying 248 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 2: to figure out her stuff having a special needs brother, 249 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 2: and that's tough. 250 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: Mhm. 251 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 2: So tell me about that dynamic. 252 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: You did well, Like what you said, you go to work. 253 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you find out whatever interventions you can do, 254 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 1: whatever treatment you can do, training, anything to try and 255 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: give them. I mean she went to speech therapy, occupational 256 00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:02,360 Speaker 1: thing therapy. I mean, I think we did every kind 257 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,160 Speaker 1: of therapy known to man. 258 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 2: You're driving her all over the place, uh huh, and 259 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 2: everything you can. Yes, And there was if it's anything 260 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 2: like my experience, that there was no thing that might 261 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 2: make her life a little bit better that you wouldn't 262 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 2: drop and go do. 263 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 1: Yes. Absolutely, and y'all did that. Oh yeah, how did 264 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: it affect Rachel. That's a good question now, I think 265 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: that it's I mean I saw it as you're talking 266 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: about your wife, Lisa. Yeah, yeah, I mean you're you're 267 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: a teen who's trying to figure out your own way 268 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: in life, and you have a special needs sibling, and 269 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: I know that a lot of time and energy is 270 00:18:55,720 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: spent trying to I want to see, make that right, 271 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,520 Speaker 1: but to help Aaron, and so Therefore, you know, there 272 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 1: is time that I think that's taken away from the 273 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: other child. And then it's hard when Rachel's trying to 274 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: figure out her own thing and she she has a 275 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:22,719 Speaker 1: sister that wants to come with everywhere, everywhere, and you know, 276 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: Rachel would have people over to the house and they'd 277 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 1: be down in the basement, and you know, of course 278 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: Aaron wants to be a part of it. One of 279 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: the beauties of aspers And I call it that because 280 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 1: that's what she was diagnosed with. 281 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 2: Good if you call it that, I can, yes, you can't. 282 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: You know, she would now lost we turn it back 283 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: because we talked about that. But you know, Rachel, Aaron 284 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: wanted to be everywhere, and oh, I know, the blessing 285 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: was that Aaron got along really well with people older 286 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: than her and young kids. It's the it's the peer 287 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: to peer relationship that is the struggle. So all of 288 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:07,400 Speaker 1: Rachel's friends. 289 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 2: She loved her, oh yeah, well, and. 290 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: She loved him because she could go over and she 291 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: could talk to them, and I'm sure for her it 292 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: was like being normal, what she thought normal was like. 293 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: But that also got in Rachel's way so well. 294 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 2: And the reason I ask is you know again, I 295 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 2: think it's really important for people listening to us to 296 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:38,639 Speaker 2: understand that when and Aaron or Ben come along in 297 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: your life, it's a it's a family occurrence, it is 298 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 2: a it is a life altering and many times for 299 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 2: the better. I don't want to make it sound like 300 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 2: it's all negative, because but there is. But you know, frankly, 301 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 2: people cry when you say there's negatives, But there is negatives. 302 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 2: It's just the reality of it. There's difficulties, it's tough, 303 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 2: it does change family dynamic. It doesn't mean it's all bad, 304 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,719 Speaker 2: and it doesn't mean you resent. But the reality is 305 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,959 Speaker 2: there's some tough there's some tough things that come along 306 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 2: with all of it, and it's important for people to 307 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 2: understand that parents and families with kids like Dunn or 308 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 2: like Aaron with Aspergers are going through their own difficulties 309 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 2: to try to make the best life they can for 310 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 2: their child, and a little understanding and support not only 311 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,640 Speaker 2: for the person with Aspergers, but the families caring form 312 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: is really important. Absolutely, did you have that. 313 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 1: I think in the beginning, you feel like you're. 314 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 2: On an island exactly. 315 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: Whist Yeah, you know, you feel like you're on an 316 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: island and you're trying to figure out how to get 317 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,600 Speaker 1: off and what's going to be the best way to 318 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:16,320 Speaker 1: get off, And through time and being involved in different things, 319 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 1: I think that you acquire that group or that support, 320 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: but in the beginning, you definitely feel like you're out 321 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: there all by. 322 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 2: Yourself, which we will come back to in terms of 323 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 2: the importance of the work that you're now doing, because 324 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,160 Speaker 2: I think the work that you're now doing is not 325 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 2: only really vital for people with Aspergers, but also for 326 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 2: the family surrounding them. So as a parent with a 327 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 2: kid struggling with this, and you're struggling, and I know, 328 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 2: you've got to be proud. I mean, she's sweet, she's cooking, 329 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 2: she's caring for kids, she's playing sports, doing all these things. 330 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: But then she's also a kid with autism. And I'm 331 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 2: not making excuses, but I remember Ben, And you can't 332 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 2: really expect twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen year old kids to 333 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:22,960 Speaker 2: really deeply understand someone who's not like them. And I'm 334 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: not excusing bullying or being off putting, but I've seen it, 335 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,639 Speaker 2: you know, And did Aaron feel different. 336 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: In what way? 337 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 2: Well, did she get invited to birthday parties? 338 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: Ah? No, oh, absolutely they feel different. Yeah, no, they don't. 339 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,480 Speaker 2: And did she verbalize how that hurt her? 340 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: In the essence of saying, you really found out about 341 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:04,199 Speaker 1: it more after the fact, because you wouldn't really know 342 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,320 Speaker 1: as a parent if my child's not invited, I don't 343 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:14,160 Speaker 1: know that that's happening, right until she finds out that 344 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: so and so had a birthday party and she wasn't invited. Well, 345 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: then you find out, Well, did she ever. 346 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 2: Come to you and say, mom, why am I not 347 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: get invited to the birthday parties? Did she ever verbalize 348 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 2: that kind of thing? 349 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: I you know, I think that she did. I'm trying 350 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: to remember one specific occasion. But I can tell you 351 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: with the beginning of social media, I mean, that's made. 352 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,679 Speaker 2: It because she's seeing all our friends on Facebook at 353 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 2: parties and stuff, or not her friends, but her classmates, 354 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: yes or peers, right, and she's not there. 355 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 1: Correct? Then I heard her yes, and you knew it. 356 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: We knew it, and she would say stuff. But I 357 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: can't I can't remember like one specific situation where she 358 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:05,919 Speaker 1: came to us. 359 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,120 Speaker 2: And I can't imagine. 360 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: But yes, I mean the social media is although it 361 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: can be beautiful. It's awful. 362 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 2: I can't imagine the I mean, you had to have 363 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: just your heart had to broke. 364 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: For her hit breaks now just thinking about it. 365 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 2: I'm sorry to take you back through it. I just looked, well, 366 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: I really want people to understand why you're doing what 367 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 2: you're doing. And until people really get the depth of this, 368 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,880 Speaker 2: and I understand the depth of it, I've watched it. 369 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 2: I've watched people do the you know, the making fun 370 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 2: of bad jerking hands or whatever. I can't even verbilize 371 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,919 Speaker 2: what I'm saying, but you know, people will do certain 372 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 2: things that simulate or articulate nonverbally special needs people. And 373 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 2: I've watched them do that behind Ben's back before, and frankly, 374 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: I've wanted to beat there. 375 00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: I'm right there with you, so I said earlier, but 376 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: nobody better give me a gun. 377 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, it will not end well, it's it's wrong on 378 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: so many levels. But what it is is it's it's 379 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,719 Speaker 2: a lack of maturity and understanding again of what an 380 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 2: entire family goes through. We'll be right back. 381 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: I think that it's and and I say this because 382 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: for anybody who hears this podcast, as if you're having 383 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: struggles with a child, regardless of whether they have autism 384 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 1: or not, if they're being bullied, you have to have 385 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: to have to just make sure that you are alert. 386 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: Aaron was bullied at church, she was bullied at school, 387 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:24,640 Speaker 1: She was bullied in sports. 388 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 2: And did you see it? Did you see it happen? 389 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: Again? You find out after the fact, But how can 390 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: you go, you know? And at church she went on 391 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,320 Speaker 1: a camp retreat and she was in a cabin with 392 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,199 Speaker 1: three other girls. And the three other girls went to 393 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: the counselor sorry and it's okay, asked if they could 394 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 1: leave the cabin. And they let the other three girls 395 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,200 Speaker 1: leave the cabin and left our daughter there by herself 396 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: a camp at church. So it can happen anywhere. It 397 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,720 Speaker 1: could happen online, which it did. It happened through email 398 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: and all these things. And to your point, when you 399 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: asked me if she told us before when that email 400 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 1: came to her, she walked downstairs with her computer and 401 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,480 Speaker 1: showed us what it said. Yes, I said basically that 402 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: she was horrible and she should kill herself. 403 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 2: Then it came from a classmate. 404 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: Three classmates at school, and she went to a school 405 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:52,040 Speaker 1: for children with disabilities. Oh my gosh, so nowhere is safe, 406 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: I guess you could say. And I hate to say that, 407 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, it breaks my heart, but it's true. So anyway, 408 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: these things were happening, and she had talked prior about 409 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 1: not wanting to live, and we had been going to 410 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: a counselor and a psychiatrist and you know, put her 411 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: on antidepressants because she, you know, was obviously not happy 412 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: and didn't want to be here anymore. And that's when 413 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: we went through the big snowstorm in Atlanta that shut 414 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: the world down, and we were actually looking at different 415 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 1: schools to move her to a different school, and she 416 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: she had gone and tried a new school the day before, 417 00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: and I think that she was scared to death that 418 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: she was going to have to go back to the 419 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 1: other school that she was currently at. And she made 420 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: a huge thing of lasagna. We were having the neighbors 421 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: over because everybody was stuck in their houses because it 422 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,080 Speaker 1: had snowed. And I went to pick up one of 423 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: our elderly neighbors in my car across the street because 424 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,520 Speaker 1: you couldn't walk it was so icy. And unfortunately, Aaron 425 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: went upstairs and took her own life in her room. 426 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: I'm so so sorry. I cannot imagine that pain. And 427 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 2: I guess you come home to that. 428 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, my husband was at home, he found her, and 429 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: then I came in and we tried to called nine 430 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: one one and tried to resuscitate her. 431 00:30:52,360 --> 00:31:02,040 Speaker 2: Nobody deserves that. Uh, do you need to take a break? 432 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 2: You cant im fine, strong woman. So that's what happens 433 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 2: when people get bullied, and that's what happens when kids 434 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 2: with special needs have to live in a world where 435 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 2: people are too uninformed and too selfish to care beyond themselves. 436 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:40,360 Speaker 2: And like I said before we heard the outcome of 437 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 2: Aaron's life is that this is a thing that an 438 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 2: entire family deals with in life and in death. And 439 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: I think we can all agree it's one of the 440 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 2: worst things in the world, is the thought of a 441 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: parent outliving a child, the trauma that that causes a family. You, however, 442 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 2: have managed to figure out a way to turn that 443 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 2: on its head, which is what we're going to get 444 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 2: to and celebrate. But one last thing before we get there. 445 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:25,000 Speaker 2: What happens next Before you go to work, you dealing 446 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 2: with grief. You've got your kid's belongings, you've got another daughter, 447 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 2: You've got a husband and a wife who are both 448 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 2: traumatized and both feeling all of their own stop probably oddly, 449 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 2: including maybe even some guilt and what ifs and all 450 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 2: of that crap you got to go through. How long 451 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 2: did that last? 452 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: What's today? Yeah, seriously, it hasn't stopped that, you know, 453 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 1: it's I don't how long I have met I haven't 454 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:10,440 Speaker 1: met another parent who's lost a child. That still to 455 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: the day that I meet them, you still are going 456 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,280 Speaker 1: through all that. You still go through the what ifs, 457 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:20,040 Speaker 1: You still go through the guilt, You still wonder what 458 00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: could I have done? What you know, what could I 459 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: have done differently? So I don't think it's there. There 460 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: is no end to that. There won't be an end 461 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: to that until I see Aaron in heaven. 462 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 2: So you carry with the rest of your life. 463 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: I think so. 464 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:48,080 Speaker 2: So when I was in ninth grade, on Daddy number four, 465 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 2: I got into a fight that I started. I didn't 466 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 2: really start it. He was kind of a jerk, but 467 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 2: I started. I started the fight part and it was 468 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 2: an unwise decision by me because he dotted by pretty good. 469 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 2: But anyway, I had to go to the coach's office 470 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 2: because back then if you were a football player and 471 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 2: you got into a fight that incidior prints of all 472 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,799 Speaker 2: you went to coach office. Coach Spain, who's past now, 473 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 2: was my coach, and he took a pretty special interest 474 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,919 Speaker 2: in me. He was a guy from a little town 475 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 2: called Myland, Tennessee, where they go cotton, no nonsense, old school, 476 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 2: raw boned guy and was that way as a coach. 477 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 2: But was one of these guys who had the ability 478 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,640 Speaker 2: to really be in tune with not just the football player, 479 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 2: but the person, you know, and he took he was 480 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:49,359 Speaker 2: really a mentor somebody. I just I think every high 481 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,839 Speaker 2: school kid kind of worships their football coach, at least 482 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 2: they did back in my day, but it was on 483 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:58,759 Speaker 2: another level with him. And so I was in his 484 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,840 Speaker 2: office at the door close. He asked me why I 485 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: did what I did, and I just told him I 486 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 2: was angry, and he said, well, you got a lot 487 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,320 Speaker 2: to be angry about. He said, you know, I understand 488 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,720 Speaker 2: you're going through a lot of stuff. And he said 489 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 2: and he said, but you know you're you're a strapping 490 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: young guy, and he said, you really have a decision 491 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 2: to make. Billy back then I was Billy. He said, 492 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 2: you really have a decision to make. Billy said, you 493 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:33,560 Speaker 2: can decide to be a victim of all of the 494 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:42,280 Speaker 2: chaos and trauma and dysfunction that's in your life and 495 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:49,320 Speaker 2: be just like them, or you can denounce it, recognize 496 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 2: it's a wonderful illustration about how not to live your life, 497 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,760 Speaker 2: and you can be a rock that other people break 498 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,799 Speaker 2: themselves on. I love that, And he said, you can decide. 499 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,720 Speaker 2: Me said, and I can tell you this right now. 500 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 2: You at your age, can't control any of the dysfunction 501 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 2: you're dealing within your life, but you can absolutely control 502 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 2: what you decide to do about it with it. And 503 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 2: I'm not going to say it was that very instant 504 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 2: that I had an epiphany, but it was the beginning 505 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 2: of me deciding that I was going to denounce victimhood 506 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 2: of my circumstances and be a rock other people going 507 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: to break themselves on, and that I was going to 508 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 2: rise above it and quit feeling sorry for myself and 509 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 2: recognize that everybody has trauma, everybody has problems. The level 510 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,640 Speaker 2: of the difficulty in some people's lives are certainly more 511 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 2: than others, but everybody experiences stuff. And I could either 512 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,239 Speaker 2: fall pray to it and be a victim of it 513 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 2: and feel sorry for myself ended up just like them. 514 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:58,680 Speaker 2: Or I could be a rock other people are going 515 00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 2: to break themselves on and I think there's certain times 516 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 2: in our life that we all have an opportunity to 517 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:11,560 Speaker 2: demonstrate our willingness to be a victim or a rock. Absolutely, 518 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 2: when is it you decided to be a rock? 519 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: Four days after she passed away? 520 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: Tell me about that day. 521 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:24,360 Speaker 1: As you were talking about before we you know, you 522 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,760 Speaker 1: were obviously living in the house and all of Aaron's 523 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: belongings are there, and she passed away in her bedroom, 524 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: so we were going through her stuff. 525 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I'm sorry to interrupt you that. How do 526 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:45,840 Speaker 2: you do that? 527 00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. 528 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 2: That's the days after your child's gone and you're going 529 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 2: through her stuff in her room. 530 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: We just went in and sat on the floor, and 531 00:37:59,080 --> 00:38:03,839 Speaker 1: it's kind of that epiphany moment that either we're going 532 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:09,319 Speaker 1: to do something or this might kill us and we 533 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: have another child and we can't do that. So we 534 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,800 Speaker 1: sat and talked about all those times when Aaron didn't 535 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 1: get invited to birthday parties and didn't get the invitation 536 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 1: to go to the football games, and didn't get asked 537 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: to do things, and realized that if she had had 538 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: somewhere to go where she felt safe and could have 539 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,760 Speaker 1: fun and it had absolutely nothing to do with therapy, 540 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: just fun, just fun to be with other kids and 541 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: meet other kids and create friendships, that she probably would 542 00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:03,800 Speaker 1: still be with us today. 543 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 2: So, with Aaron still heavy on their hearts and minds, 544 00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 2: Stacy and her husband Darren created that place and she 545 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 2: tells that incredible story in part two, which is now available, 546 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 2: And I'm telling you, guys, you do not want to 547 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,799 Speaker 2: miss it, but if for some strange reason you do, 548 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: make sure to join the Army of Normal Folks at 549 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,880 Speaker 2: Normalfolks dot us and sign up to become a member 550 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 2: of the movement. By signing up, you'll also receive a 551 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,479 Speaker 2: weekly email with short episode summaries in case you happen 552 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 2: to miss an episode or you prefer reading about our 553 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 2: incredible guests. Together, guys, we can change this country and 554 00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 2: it starts with you. I'll see you in part two.