1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: From the studio who brought you the number one podcast, 2 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: the piked in Massacre. This is Death Island. 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: Just a few miles off the Thailand coast. The island 4 00:00:12,039 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 2: of Kotoo looks like a postcard. 5 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 3: I mean, it's almost like if you were going to 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 3: imagine a paradise island, they'll draw a picture of one. 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 3: That's what Kotao looks like. 8 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: Young tourists from all over the world visit the pristine 9 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: beaches and crystal clear water. 10 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 4: Right underneath the surface lies something sinister. 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 3: A dark cloud has come over the island and cast 12 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 3: its shadow death, history and danger. 13 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: In the last twenty years, dozens of tourists have died 14 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: mysteriously on the island. 15 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: One thing is certain in this beautiful place, no coast 16 00:00:51,040 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: is clear. This is Death Island, Episode elevee. This conversation 17 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:07,400 Speaker 2: between Courtney Armstrong Andrew are Now, Stephanie Lyiduker and myself 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: was recorded on Friday, March twenty fourth. Our entire team 19 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: had just finished putting the final touches on our series, 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 2: and we thought a roundtable conversation with our editorial crew 21 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 2: talking about the ins and the outs of the series 22 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 2: might be interesting. Here's Andrew kicking it off. 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 5: We just uploaded the trailer for Death Island two days ago, 24 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 5: and we've already started to get some reaction. Connor, do 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 5: you want to talk about that for a moment before 26 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 5: we kind of get into how we got into this project. 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 2: I've already got my first and my second hate tweet 28 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: from the Kotal truthers, as I'm going to call them, 29 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: the people who think that it's all pure conspiracy theory 30 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: and craziness and tinfoil at people and anyone who talks 31 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,040 Speaker 2: about cootal and any type of negative light are crazy people. 32 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 4: So as soon as the trailer dropped, I already started. 33 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: Getting people basically saying that we're conspiracy theorists and crazy people. 34 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 4: So it starts. 35 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 2: I think it's going to get a lot more crazy 36 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 2: once the first episode, and you know, all the way 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: through the other episodes, but it's it's gonna kick off here, 38 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: I think. 39 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 5: I mean, you know, at least we were kind of 40 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 5: warned about this by a few of the people that 41 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 5: we've spoken to. They said, you know, as soon as 42 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 5: you guys put this out there, they're going to come 43 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 5: for you hard. 44 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: Exactly and exactly. I think that's The thing that's so 45 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 2: fascinating about this entire project is, on one hand, there 46 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:27,639 Speaker 2: is crazy Internet speculation and conspiracy theories, right, and I'll 47 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 2: be the first to say some of them are just insane. 48 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 2: At the same time, there are some really valid, heartfelt 49 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,800 Speaker 2: conclusions and views about the things that have gone on 50 00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: on this island Kotel in the last twenty some years, 51 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 2: and they're valid, and they're truthful, and they deserve to 52 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 2: have these questions asked about that, which I think is 53 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,680 Speaker 2: the point where you and I started from, which is, 54 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: let's ask some questions, let's see what's true, let's see 55 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 2: what's valid, and let's see what's crazy. Right. 56 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 5: And speaking of where this started from, So December twenty 57 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 5: twenty one, Depie of KT Studios brought this to my attention. 58 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 4: Jefanie Leidecker are our executive producer. 59 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 5: And started looking into it, and I started doing some 60 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 5: research and you know, kind of getting ahead of it 61 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 5: before officially getting going on the project. And then you 62 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 5: and I connected in very interesting circumstances because I think 63 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 5: my first official day or week on the project, you 64 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 5: were in Kiev. 65 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:24,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. 66 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: So I have been connected to this project for a 67 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: long time, which we'll explain later through KT Studios. And 68 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 2: have been following this island for a long time, having 69 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: lived overseas and just knowing a lot about Thailand, which 70 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: I want to state for the record, I think is 71 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: a beautiful, wonderful country. 72 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 4: I visited it. I love it. 73 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: I've always had a great time when I've been there. 74 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 2: But Kotao was always stuck out as a place that's 75 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: really problematic, and so it was always on It's been 76 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: on my radar, this this whole idea of Death Island 77 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: Kotao for years now. But right when we were beginning 78 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 2: to go into pre productions essentially like start our first meetings, 79 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: I got a phone call on a Friday afternoon from 80 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 2: a good friend of mine at CNN name Alex Marqua, 81 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 2: and he's a reporter there, and he said, Hey, I'm 82 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: going to Kiev tomorrow. 83 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 4: Do you want to go. 84 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 2: I immediately call my wife and I said, Alex is 85 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: asking if I can go to Keev with him as 86 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: a producer. 87 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:11,920 Speaker 4: Are you cool with that? 88 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: And She's like yeah, but what about pre production on 89 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: Death Island? I said, well, that's my next phone call. 90 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 2: I'm going to call Courtney and Stephanie and find out 91 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 2: if I can go. And I said, listen, I'm going 92 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 2: to go. You know, there's this possibility there's a war, 93 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: but it doesn't look like it. I'll go for two 94 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 2: weeks if it's not, if the war hasn't happened in 95 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: two weeks, I'll come back. 96 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 4: And I said, I'll be in a nice hotel and 97 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 4: Kiev most of the. 98 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: Time, I'll have internet. I'll be able to do pre 99 00:04:34,040 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: production when there's some downtime. And basically, Courtney and Stephanie said, 100 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 2: go do it. We'll start pre production. We're going to 101 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: bring Andrew on board. We'll get him sort of up 102 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: to speed. And then I think the first time we 103 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 2: spoke was about probably my second or third day in Ukraine, 104 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 2: and the war hadn't started yet, right, but I was 105 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 2: in a hotel room and we're all meeting, and it 106 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: was sort of like, Okay, where do we begin on 107 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: Koto as a story? 108 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 5: It was a tough one, right, because when you start 109 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 5: digging into it, where do you really start? You can 110 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 5: start chronologically at the beginning of when everything happened, or 111 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 5: There's so many things that really stood out to me. 112 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 5: I remember one in particular, Dmitri pops, and you know 113 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 5: this was I did not come from a true crime background, 114 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:20,360 Speaker 5: and I think my first day on the job, I 115 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 5: saw a lot of crime scene photos. This Dimitri case 116 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 5: stuck with me still to this day. I think about 117 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 5: it a lot. 118 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know exactly the photos you're talking about. They're 119 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: out there on the internet. Probably you might even see 120 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 2: them at some point if you're following the story. But 121 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 2: I know exactly the photos you're talking about, and yeah, 122 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: those stick with you. There's a lot of photos from Kotel, 123 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: from the death scenes that really stick with you. 124 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: Dmitri Povs is one that stuck out to all of us. 125 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 1: Dmitri was found on New Year's Day twenty fifteen. 126 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: Dmitri was a French citizen who had been living on 127 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: Kotel for some period of time, and he was out 128 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: celebrating New Year's twenty fifteen like everyone else, and he 129 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: was out at a bar until five am, and he 130 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: and his friends moved the after party to another spot 131 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: at some point that finally wrapped up really really late 132 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 2: in the morning, and at some point his friends all 133 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 2: went back to their rooms and Dimitri was essentially alone. 134 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 2: It's not clear when Dimitri who was twenty nine at 135 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: the time, was alone completely and when he went home 136 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: or where exactly we went. But later in the afternoon 137 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 2: on that day his friends found him hanging from a 138 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,559 Speaker 2: ceiling fan in his villa. 139 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 1: It was a particularly horrifying scene. His hands were tied 140 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: behind his back, and that's a pretty suspicious way to 141 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: kill yourself if you're going to That said, it's entirely 142 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: possible that he could have slipped his second hand in, 143 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: but it does seem like there wasn't much investigation done 144 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 1: at his place. There were no obvious signs of a 145 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: struggle or of a fight, and TI police pretty quickly 146 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: ruled his death as suicide and the official cause of 147 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: death was exphyxiation. 148 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 2: There was also supposedly a suicide note in which he 149 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: essentially said that Iris, I love you. His friends said 150 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: that there was no woman named Iris in his life, 151 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: and they're not exactly sure who that note would have 152 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: been addressed to. It's possible it was somebody that his 153 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 2: friends on the island didn't know. That's always a possibility. 154 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: But the combination of the suicide note, in which it 155 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: references somebody who his friends didn't know, and the fact 156 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 2: that his hands were tied behind his back. Are really 157 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: two of the troubling parts of this suicide, and it's 158 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 2: possible it was a suicide, but given everything we know 159 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: about the island and the way that the police handle 160 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 2: the investigations, and the fact that we know that there 161 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 2: are people on the island who have threatened and possibly 162 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 2: even potentially killed others because of fights or disagreements, his 163 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 2: death is really suspicious and we've just had a lot 164 00:07:54,920 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: of lingering questions about his death for a long period 165 00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: of time. But it's one of those deaths that there's 166 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 2: just not a lot of information other than the most 167 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: basic of information to really dig into. 168 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: And Dimitri's case was one of the actual first ones 169 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: that we had read up on going back years ago, 170 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: you know, to twenty eighteen. 171 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 2: We've struggled to track anyone down who knew them. But 172 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: it's also one of those stories where there just isn't 173 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 2: a lot of family and friends posting about him, and 174 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: a lot of these other deaths, you have family advocates 175 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: who have been basically out there saying, you know, we 176 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: don't believe that this death was in fact a suicide 177 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: or an accident. We really struggled to find anyone who 178 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 2: was still posting or had posted in the past about him. 179 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: We struggled to find anyone who seemed to be connected 180 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 2: to him. And whoever these friends are that are in 181 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: the newspapers, none of them are identified. And it's that 182 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,440 Speaker 2: combination of this as a global story where there are 183 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 2: people all over the world who've gone to Thailand and 184 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: gone to Kotl and the combination of a French national 185 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 2: who maybe his friends didn't speak English and so weren't 186 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 2: posting in English. But we've looked everywhere to try to 187 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: find people who are connected to Dmitri, and it's just 188 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: been nearly impossible. 189 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:05,880 Speaker 4: This period of time. 190 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 2: You've got the murders of Hannah and David, You've got 191 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 2: Chrissy's death, You've got Dmitri's suicide. When people talk about 192 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 2: Kotao as Death Island, it really comes from this period 193 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:19,080 Speaker 2: of time. We know, as you've listened to this series 194 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: that the deaths, many of these deaths also predate this 195 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 2: period of time, Mister Band's death and Tony Lotus's later 196 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: as well. There's just this period of time where Kotao 197 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 2: really goes from this island paradise to being known as 198 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: death Island, and this is the period of time that 199 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: it really gets its reputation. 200 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: And it's this period of time that you're referring to 201 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,440 Speaker 1: where we'd found a lot of the cases that we 202 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,319 Speaker 1: then went on to try and investigate and reach out 203 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,959 Speaker 1: to people and see if we could find out any 204 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: kind of clarity whatsoever. 205 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: The first thing we sort of said was, are we 206 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: just got to make a list of who do we 207 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 2: know that's died on Kotel, whether they were murdered, whether 208 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,599 Speaker 2: they had a suspicious death, whether they had just a 209 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: tragic death that you know, as an accident or just natural. 210 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: And I remember that was sort of your first task, right, 211 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: which is like just compiling names, dates, locations, photos, contact information. 212 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: Just that was where we started from. And that list, 213 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 2: over the course of several weeks, just kept getting bigger 214 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 2: and bigger and bigger. 215 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 5: Yeah. What I thought wasn't going to be you know, 216 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 5: two dents of a list ended up being a really 217 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 5: cumbersome project. You know, from mapping out on the island 218 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 5: where the deaths occurred or the bodies were found, and 219 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 5: you know, really being able to hone in and look 220 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 5: at these cases and say, you know, these ones really 221 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 5: really look like accidents or diving whatever, and these are 222 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 5: the ones that we really don't have enough information, and 223 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 5: these are the ones that are suspicious. So we kind 224 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 5: of took a long time to go through everything, and 225 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,360 Speaker 5: once we compiled all of that, you and I started 226 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 5: just shooting out emails, Facebook messages, whets, you know, whatever 227 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,960 Speaker 5: we could do to try and contact some people who 228 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 5: you know, who had lost loved ones on the island. 229 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 2: You know, there's been I want to say a lot 230 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 2: written about Kotel because there actually hasn't been. But the 231 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 2: things that have been written about Kotel are often not 232 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 2: very in depth. You know, it's sort of the same 233 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: phrases and language written over and over again. For the articles, 234 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 2: they always highlight a couple of cases and a couple 235 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: of deaths as they mentioned the new death. 236 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 4: But as we started to dig I. 237 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 2: Think the thing we wanted to do was like, let's 238 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,680 Speaker 2: try to find some new people who've never spoken on 239 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 2: the record before. Let's try to find some new voices 240 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,359 Speaker 2: that have never been contacted, or if they've been contacted, 241 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,599 Speaker 2: they've only been contacted. And you know for a podcast, 242 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 2: you know, years ago in you know, a brief conversation, 243 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: but people who haven't had sort of a full opportunity 244 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 2: to tell their stories, to have their own information, their 245 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: own stories sort of critically looked at as I think 246 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: like we tried to do. And you know, I think 247 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: as we were building this list and compiling this list 248 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 2: when it got bigger. And two, I think throughout this 249 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: process we uncovered some people whose voice had never been 250 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:01,079 Speaker 2: heard before. 251 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 5: Right. And you know, in going back a little bit, 252 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 5: you know you're talking about there's so much disinformation out there, 253 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,960 Speaker 5: what's real, what's not? And so the biggest part of 254 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 5: the outreach and the research was, you know, what is 255 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 5: true and what is not? How do we figure that out? 256 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 5: And how do we use our platform to help these people. 257 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: I think the other thing is is I wanted to 258 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: and I think you wanted to, and I think the 259 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: entire team at KAT Studios wanted to make sure that 260 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 2: we never lost track of the victims, the people who died, 261 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 2: their families and their loved ones, and to make sure 262 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 2: we're humanizing people as much as possible, that they're just 263 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: not a stat somebody who was you know, murdered, or 264 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 2: somebody who had an accident, or somebody who died under 265 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 2: unknown circumstances, right Like, we didn't want it just to 266 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 2: be a line that, oh, and then here's the gruesome 267 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 2: details or mysterious details. But we wanted to really try 268 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: to talk to people who you know, knew these people, 269 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: knew them as friendsnew them as family members, knew them, 270 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: was loved ones. And I think that is that that 271 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 2: was a really big part of what we were trying 272 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 2: to do throughout this entire process. 273 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 5: And it didn't take too many conversations before we realize 274 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 5: we've really got something here. I mean, there's there's a 275 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 5: lot of smoke, and in my opinion, you know, and 276 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 5: I'm sure you'd agree with this, there's definitely a fire. 277 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for a break. We'll be back in 278 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:20,679 Speaker 1: a moment. 279 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: I think this is a conversation that deserves to be had, 280 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 2: and particularly for the people who thinks it's all looney 281 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 2: to and conspiracy theories. You know, is there a serial 282 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 2: killer who's behind all of these things? Is it a cult? 283 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 2: Is it a random tragic accident. I mean, there's a 284 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 2: whole gamut of conversations about what happens on Koto, And 285 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: you know, I think we tried to look at that 286 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 2: pretty critically about what we're honest conversations, and which was 287 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 2: disinformation and which was sort of truthful, and which was 288 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,160 Speaker 2: just pure speculation, and not to any one person was 289 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 2: right or anyone person was wrong, but to try to 290 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 2: build up a conversation around these deaths because they're all separate, 291 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 2: but they're all equal in the sense that they all 292 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: are tied to this one tiny little island in Kotel. 293 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,880 Speaker 5: And not just one tiny island. I mean for several 294 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 5: of them, it's one beach on one tiny island. And 295 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 5: you know, that's something that we spent a lot of 296 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 5: time digging into. 297 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I you know, as people listen to this story 298 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 2: about Kotel, so much of the questions are really centered 299 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 2: around a couple parts of the island. You know, there's 300 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: several parts of the island that just aren't inhabitable or 301 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: that they there are people that live there, they're locals. 302 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 2: The Western tourists, Facing party, scuba diving facing part is 303 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 2: a pretty small part of the island, but it's the 304 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 2: center of the island. It's the part where everything happens, 305 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 2: both good and bad, and that's the area where so 306 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 2: many of these suspicious deaths you know, happen. 307 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'm really excited for people to to hear 308 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,400 Speaker 5: these stories and kind of side for themselves what they 309 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 5: think about this, because I don't know. I mean, my 310 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 5: heart is very invested in this at this point in time. 311 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 5: It's been well over a year since we started, and 312 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 5: you know, as we spoke recently, things are still happening. Now. 313 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 5: You know, we think we've got everything covered, we're ready 314 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 5: to finish post on our shows, and then all of 315 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 5: the sudden, somebody else. So there's I don't know, there's 316 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 5: a lot out there for people to hear, and I 317 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 5: really I look forward to hearing their thoughts on it. 318 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, don't you feel like we're not actually 319 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: really done? Like I feel like even though we have 320 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: episodes in the can and they're edited and they've been 321 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,480 Speaker 2: voiced and you know, they're finished, even though we think 322 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 2: we know how this all ends, the season wraps up, 323 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 2: I feel like there's things that are going to come out. 324 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: I think there's always the possibilities somebody else dies, Like 325 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,720 Speaker 2: this is not over, even though we have finished essentially 326 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 2: the first season, or are finished with most of the 327 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 2: first season, you know, as it is, and That's kind 328 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 2: of the thing is this process has been going on 329 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 2: for a year for us, but I don't feel it's 330 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: wrapped up by any means. 331 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 5: Not even close, not even close. I think there's more 332 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,680 Speaker 5: people we want to talk to, and you know, as 333 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 5: we learn more, there's more questions that we have, which 334 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 5: is somewhat frustrating because usually the more information you have, 335 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 5: the less questions you have. And so this has been 336 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 5: a really fascinating, extremely sad, but fascinating process as we've 337 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 5: gone through this, and I have no idea where it's going. 338 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, me neither. 339 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: I mean, I think I have a better sense of 340 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: what people who do investigations feel like, because you know, 341 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: you might get a piece of information and then you 342 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: try to verify it and you try to check it out, 343 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 2: and then you try to see where that fits in 344 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: with the other information you have and what else that 345 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 2: might open in terms of information and contacts with people. 346 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: And I can only imagine in a lot of murder cases, 347 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 2: crime cases, you know, political intrigue, like the more you 348 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: peel things back, the more doors you open, it often 349 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 2: leads to not more answers, but more questions, and over time, 350 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 2: some of those questions begin to become answers. But you know, 351 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 2: I can see why investigations that are complicated take years 352 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 2: to unravel, because the one thing I've come away from 353 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: this process. 354 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 4: Is just like every question leads to an answer that 355 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 4: also leads to other questions. 356 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, and this has really been a crash course of 357 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 5: investigative journalism for me, having had no real experience in 358 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 5: the journalistic world. You know, you've kind of helped guide 359 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 5: me along the way and how we dig out these 360 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 5: little nuggets of info. 361 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for me, one of the things that's 362 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 2: been really interesting is just the efforts that social media 363 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 2: allows you to go and reach and find people. 364 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 5: Right. 365 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: We also employed people in Germany and Argentina to help 366 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 2: track down people, so we had, you know, we hired 367 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: people in other countries to look for people where social 368 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,880 Speaker 2: media was a dead end. You know, people looking through 369 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 2: film books and calling and reaching out to people. You know, 370 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 2: there's a lot of information on social media who people 371 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 2: are friends with, who people connect with, what pictures they like, 372 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 2: what links they provide, and stuff like that, and that 373 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,119 Speaker 2: provides a trail. But it's also an incomplete trail, but 374 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 2: it is one that gives you, you know, some a 375 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: roadmap to some extent of where to start, not always 376 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: where to finish, but at least where to start when 377 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,400 Speaker 2: you're trying to find out information on people, and again 378 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 2: as you try to find out who these people were 379 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 2: and why they went to Kotow, what motivated them to 380 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 2: go there, to live there, to visit, sometimes you have 381 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 2: to step way far away from Kotao and Thailand in 382 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 2: general to get a better picture of who these people are. 383 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:33,120 Speaker 5: I'm curious what about Kotao drew you in initially when 384 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 5: you started looking into this in meeting with Stephanie and Courtney. 385 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 4: You know, years ago, I've. 386 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 2: Lived and traveled all over the world. I can't and 387 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 2: I'm a scuba diver, and I've been to some small 388 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: little islands and scuba dived, and you know, lots of 389 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 2: beach paradises and things like that, and I can't think 390 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,880 Speaker 2: of another place that I visited that has this type 391 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 2: of reputation, whether it's earned or unfair, or if it's 392 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,920 Speaker 2: you know, something that they shouldn't have this label of 393 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:00,879 Speaker 2: Death Island. The fact matter is they do have this label. 394 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 2: There's plenty of questions surrounding what's happened on this island, 395 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 2: and so it's such a small, tiny island in comparison 396 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 2: to Kosamui or Kopanyang or some of these other places 397 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,959 Speaker 2: that are more famous and other countries that have diving 398 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 2: cultures or party cultures. You know, the things that have 399 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 2: happened on Kotel are both tragic and are also mysterious. 400 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: And when you have a small town murderer, right, essentially, 401 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 2: if you put in the sort of conversation of America, 402 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: it's a small town that a lot of people visit, 403 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 2: and there's just a lot of death, and it's almost 404 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:37,520 Speaker 2: like murder, she wrote in that sense, right, like it's 405 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 2: a small little town and what was a cab at 406 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:41,440 Speaker 2: Maine or whatever that you know, somebody was murdered every 407 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 2: Sunday night. That's not quite Koto. But that's the way 408 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 2: it feels like to me, and I think that's what 409 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 2: drew me into it as a story, which is it's 410 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 2: a small community. 411 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 4: It's a very tight knit community. 412 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:53,639 Speaker 2: Everybody knows each other to some extent, and even if 413 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 2: they didn't know each other, they know somebody who knew somebody. 414 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 2: Because it is just a small little island, but it 415 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 2: has a lot of and it has a lot of 416 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 2: people passing through at various points in their lives. Right, 417 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: it's not the number of tragic deaths that we discovered, 418 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,199 Speaker 2: it's the number of tragic deaths compared to the size 419 00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 2: and the amount of people there. Yeah, And you know, 420 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,199 Speaker 2: and there will be people who say, well, it's not 421 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 2: there aren't that many deaths and compared to other places, 422 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 2: and that's just it's not true. Like it's a small 423 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 2: island and has a lot of tourists, and you have 424 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 2: you have accidents, and you have deaths, and you have murders, 425 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,439 Speaker 2: and you have natural cause deaths all over the world 426 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: in Thailand and any other place, and all that stuff happens. 427 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 2: But there's two things that you have on Kotao, which 428 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 2: is one they happen a lot, and two they happen 429 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 2: really strange ways that the police just discount any type 430 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 2: of explanation. They don't really make much of an effort 431 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:48,440 Speaker 2: to investigate. So you're always left with these questions about 432 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: what happened. And you can take even what is seemingly 433 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:55,600 Speaker 2: the most natural of causes, and there's still questions because 434 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 2: the police blame it on the victim or they don't 435 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: do any investigation, or if they do an investigation, the 436 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: paperwork looks doctored or sort of made up in fake 437 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: or it looks like somebody just sort of googled on 438 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 2: the internet and said, you know, what's the cause of death, 439 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:11,880 Speaker 2: let's put that. 440 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 4: Down on the police report. 441 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 2: And you have that time and time again, and that 442 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 2: leads to all of these questions about Koto. And you know, 443 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: no police department is perfect. But if you can compare 444 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 2: the police department on Koto to what we've been told 445 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,119 Speaker 2: about Kopayang or Kosumui, the larger islands in Thailand or 446 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:32,800 Speaker 2: even Bangkok, everybody says the investigations on Koto are the worst. 447 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 2: And that's that's even comes from people who are not, 448 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 2: you know, sort of as open to believing that Kota 449 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 2: has as many problems as they do. You know, Koto's 450 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 2: police department and police force is really inadequate for the 451 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 2: issues it has. 452 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 5: I mean, I can't recall a single person we spoke 453 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 5: to or read about that had anything complimentary to say 454 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 5: about the way they handled an investigation. 455 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and maybe that's the people who who most likely 456 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: we're happy with it, are unwilling to talk because they 457 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 2: just don't want to be drawn into this, you know. 458 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 2: I think I think there are people connected to Hannah 459 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 2: and David's murders who are very happy with the outcome 460 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 2: of that investigation and simply don't want to engage in 461 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:20,480 Speaker 2: any conversation about that investigation being flawed. But in all honesty, 462 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 2: even people who are skeptical of, you know, their friends' 463 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 2: deaths maybe just be natural. They would all come back 464 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 2: and say, or most of them will come back and say. 465 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 4: They were their problems with this investigation. 466 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 2: It doesn't feel right. Even if I don't think they 467 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 2: were murdered, I'm not sure the investigation is going to 468 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 2: be the thing that makes me believe that they weren't murdered. 469 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 5: Right, And that's the last thing. You know, something terrible 470 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 5: happens while a family member or loved ones on vacation, 471 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 5: you want to know what happened. I mean, I feel 472 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 5: so horrible for these people who are left with way 473 00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 5: more questions than answers. 474 00:22:57,480 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: Let's stop here for another break. 475 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 2: I think one of the interesting things is the backdrop 476 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,440 Speaker 2: of Thailand in the last twenty years as well, which 477 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:19,399 Speaker 2: you've had a series of coups. You've had an issue 478 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 2: with the monarchy about what you can and can't say, 479 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 2: can you criticize and not criticize. The Ties are very 480 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 2: they're very concerned about the way they are portrayed in 481 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 2: the world and particularly in the media, about whether it's 482 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 2: a safe and friendly place, or whether it's a kotau 483 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 2: or even the country in general is dangerous. And so 484 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,960 Speaker 2: you have this backdrop of the way Thailand views itself 485 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 2: and the way Ties view themselves. That is part of 486 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 2: this story as well, and I think that only adds 487 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,359 Speaker 2: to some of the paranoia, some to the conspiracy theories 488 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 2: and some of the questions about how people die on 489 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 2: this island. 490 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 5: Absolutely. 491 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 6: Initially when we started this project kind of together, really 492 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 6: the task to you guys, meeting Connor and Andrew was 493 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 6: there's so many stories and this is a worldwide search, right, 494 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 6: so it's time zones and language barriers, and that's a 495 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 6: complicated effort in and of itself. And even just aggregating 496 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 6: the information about the various cases, Connor, to your point, 497 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 6: to be able to at least categorize them was the 498 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 6: initial task. And then you all continue to take it 499 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 6: to such a deeper level, and I think the level 500 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 6: of outreach that the both of you have done is 501 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 6: really remarkable. 502 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: It's dangerous stuff. 503 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 6: We're talking right now, it's dangerous stuff, and the stakes 504 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 6: are very high. Families don't have answers. Andrew to your 505 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 6: point earlier, which gave me chills. It's one of those 506 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 6: stories that I think everybody would agree once you hear it, 507 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 6: you literally cannot unhear it. And Connor, we were all 508 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 6: pitching it way back in the day prior to COVID, 509 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 6: and it was one of those cases that nobody could 510 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 6: get out of their head. And at the bare minimum, 511 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 6: the hope for the podcast is to be actionable, right, 512 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 6: aggregate all this information, utilize really frankly the world because 513 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 6: the victims are from so many different countries, to be 514 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 6: able to find new information. We're really going to encourage 515 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,399 Speaker 6: listeners to hopefully add to the amount of leads that 516 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 6: we've gotten so far. 517 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: Next week we'll be back to continue this conversation and 518 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: wrap up season one of Death Island. 519 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: If you have any information about any of the cases 520 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 1: discussed this season, please contact us at producers at KTIDH 521 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: studios dot com For more information and relevant photos. Follow 522 00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: us on Instagram at kt Underscore Studios. Death Island is 523 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Connor Powell Andrew Arnow, Jeff Shane, 524 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 1: Chris Cacaro, Gabriel Castillo, and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and 525 00:25:54,800 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: sound design by Jeff Tooi music by Vanicor. Music. Island 526 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio and KT Studios. For more 527 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 528 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,080 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.