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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast.

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Speaker 1: We explore some of the big money issues in the

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Speaker 1: world of sports. I'm Michael Barr, I'm Scarlett, and I'm

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Speaker 1: Damiens and we have the founder, chief executive officer and

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Speaker 1: director of Sports Radar. Say hello everyone to Carston Curl.

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Speaker 1: I am so glad you are here on the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business of Sports. And by the way, folks, to show

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Speaker 1: you how we stretch out there. He's on the phone

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Speaker 1: from St. Gallen, Switzerland, because that's how we rolle. Car

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Business and Sports. Wow, what a

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Speaker 1: wildcome And that sounds a little bit like the introduction

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Speaker 1: of a boxing fight. Let's get Now, that's a transit.

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Speaker 1: I can't do that. It's like that's straight. Uh. Let's

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Speaker 1: first of all, let's talk about Sports Radar. It's uh,

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Speaker 1: and we've talked about it before, we're gonna bring it

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Speaker 1: up again. It's the leaving global sports technology company and

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Speaker 1: you create experiences for sports fans and vettors. How have

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Speaker 1: things been going, well, let's say interesting. So it's uh.

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Speaker 1: It's I think the best description the capital markets at

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Speaker 1: the moment. And I think if you interview a couple

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Speaker 1: of CEO. As you hear from all of them, some

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Speaker 1: colors in this direction, it's going up and down. It's UM,

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Speaker 1: it's like a roller coaster. UM. There are many things

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Speaker 1: which companies can't influence, many market tendencies. UM. That is

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Speaker 1: that is a challenging you know, public business to manage this. UM.

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Speaker 1: From operational perspective, things are running excellent, That's the only

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Speaker 1: thing I can say. So we are we are making

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Speaker 1: up to our plans. UM. We are beating work or

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Speaker 1: we are on our quality predictions every quarter in the

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Speaker 1: role since ure UM, and that is not so easy

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Speaker 1: in our worldwide environment. Was all the little head winds

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Speaker 1: which we see in some areas. And you're profitable in

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Speaker 1: the US for the first time since the I p O.

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Speaker 1: So I want to get a better sense of your

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Speaker 1: business in the US because you provide data to teams,

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Speaker 1: leagues as well as media outlets and sport books in

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Speaker 1: real time and looking at just some of the numbers here,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty stunning. Betting and gaming. Uh, that part of

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Speaker 1: your business of US sports books run on sport radar data.

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Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about specifically what data that is

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Speaker 1: because as a consumer. I don't necessarily see it. Damie

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Speaker 1: and I were just talking about this, but the businesses

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Speaker 1: clearly need what you're providing absolutely, So compare us to Bloomberg.

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Speaker 1: It's a company you guys know very well. I guess

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Speaker 1: we think with speed information and data UM, and that

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Speaker 1: is consumed by by people which are are trying to

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Speaker 1: make an advantage out of this information. UM. Sports data

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Speaker 1: works in the same way if it comes to sports patting,

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Speaker 1: So that's something if it goes into a real time

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Speaker 1: environment and if you offer UM prices on it or

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Speaker 1: batting parts, which is the same like a probability UM,

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Speaker 1: you depend that you have very accurate and very fast

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Speaker 1: information and very reliable information. So we're speaking here about

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Speaker 1: real time sport data and information much more valuable than

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Speaker 1: it is pre match. If you'll provide this a week

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Speaker 1: in advance or a day in an advance UM. And

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Speaker 1: what we just see in the US is a revolution here.

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Speaker 1: So we see that sports batting operators begin to experience

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Speaker 1: and try around life batting. Life batting is so more exciting.

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Speaker 1: Then if you're bet now on the next match day

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Speaker 1: or show before the match is starting, you can bet

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Speaker 1: in running, so you can bet on the Super Bowl UM,

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Speaker 1: and and the bet on every touchdown, every minute. You

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Speaker 1: can do this. You can do the same with the

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Speaker 1: NBA on the points. You can even bet um is

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Speaker 1: it is it Lebron with scoring study points or more

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Speaker 1: and that is changing during the match dynamically. For this

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Speaker 1: you need first underlying data and then you need two

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Speaker 1: models to predict this and to predict the outcome UM

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Speaker 1: and the models UM outside from the data distribution is

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Speaker 1: what we called up products which are moving up the

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Speaker 1: value chain. So we are providing here probabilities, trading products,

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Speaker 1: platform products to our clients UM to make the life

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Speaker 1: easier for them that they can focus on what they

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Speaker 1: are best in the marketing and operation of the sports book.

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Speaker 1: And we are trying put that burn away from that Carston,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean obviously you know, uh, Scarlet hit

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Speaker 1: on a lot of your clients, right and you have

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Speaker 1: this great B two B model you're you're you're facing

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Speaker 1: off against, as she said, sport books and Turner Networks

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Speaker 1: and ABC and you know all these large you know,

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Speaker 1: venerable institutions. You know what comes next for your average

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Speaker 1: run of the middle retail investor. You know, how does

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Speaker 1: sport Radar plan on doing business with that individual or

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Speaker 1: individuals and what is the offering gonna look like going

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Speaker 1: forward as it relates to picking up that segment of

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Speaker 1: the market. Look, Um, we will stay in what I'm

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Speaker 1: telling you now from a segmentation. UM, that's a sport.

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Speaker 1: Everything what is around sport is investing for us. And

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Speaker 1: there are three segments. There are the batting operators. We

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Speaker 1: believe we are the biggest and the best in the

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Speaker 1: world that we have to broad streach and we are

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Speaker 1: profitable in all our market segments here UM we have

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Speaker 1: leads and teams as partners. That's a very exciting segment,

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Speaker 1: by the way, and we see a lot of movements here.

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Speaker 1: Might later on that a few sentenced on this. And

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Speaker 1: the third one is the media and the broadcasters UM

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Speaker 1: and and interestingly we their batting operators are moving into

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Speaker 1: the media space. Same black media companies are going to

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Speaker 1: be batting both greators. And the most exciting one is

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Speaker 1: the leagues are going directly to the consumer and they

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Speaker 1: all need data, they all need technology and the services

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Speaker 1: connected to this. That's such a huge playing ground. And

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Speaker 1: keeping the mind that we have in the US, UM,

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Speaker 1: I found out all the states at the moment online

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Speaker 1: the sports batting. UM. We have India on the world.

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Speaker 1: We have Brazil beginning to regulate. We might have Malaysia

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Speaker 1: and Japan coming in this year. UM and who knows

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Speaker 1: when China is coming with a population of a one

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Speaker 1: point three one point four billion. So all these together

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Speaker 1: UM gives us a solid feeling in this three business verticules.

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Speaker 1: We have enormous growth potential located to the world though, UM,

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Speaker 1: so it's not needed to think about more business models.

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Speaker 1: I think we have to execute on what we have

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Speaker 1: anti battle power services. Some of the current owners I

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Speaker 1: think they invested in sport Radar back in uh Mark, Cuban. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's you've got a lot of big names.

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Speaker 1: Ted leons Is, Michael Jordan's what is it like, I

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Speaker 1: mean when you're back now the company's at two valued

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Speaker 1: at two point nine billion dollars, What is it like?

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Speaker 1: Like you said when you when you have very smart

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Speaker 1: people like this, it can't be anything but a plus

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Speaker 1: for the company. Yeah. I think at the moment it's

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Speaker 1: even closer to the four billion and then to the three,

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Speaker 1: but it's changing all the time. Look those guys, UM,

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Speaker 1: they made good money and I'm very happy if I

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Speaker 1: can make money for appreciation with it. That is what

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Speaker 1: I should do. I should create value for everybody. I

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Speaker 1: should grow the business like I'm from said UM, and

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Speaker 1: then UM. I hope that the market is UM is

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Speaker 1: giving us that valuation for the performance which we show.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes it's a bit difficult if markets are changing

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Speaker 1: their perception on valuation and the multiples are going down

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Speaker 1: on no more revenue multiples more hebita multiples. But in

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Speaker 1: generally UM, it's only hard work and execution on what

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Speaker 1: I've promised UM to market in twain and to test

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Speaker 1: not and the team which I have around me is

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Speaker 1: simply outstanding and sensession UM, and we would enjoy what

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Speaker 1: we are doing. We're working in sport, but we are

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Speaker 1: executing on the agenda and that creates share all the

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Speaker 1: value and at the end that's UM. Everybody is interested

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Speaker 1: in this. If you invest into the business, you're interested

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Speaker 1: in the return. I want to go back to the

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Speaker 1: betting and gaming business. With nine percent of US sports

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Speaker 1: books running on sport radar data, what do the other

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Speaker 1: two percent use? Clearly use Mandy my book. No, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: So that's massive. Look, this is so difficult to say,

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Speaker 1: um UM. What that means is we are we are

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Speaker 1: covering nine sports um UM the whole year around. So

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Speaker 1: it's not only the less sports, and it's more than

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Speaker 1: nine hundred thousand life matches which we provide to our

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Speaker 1: clients UM. With this sheer volume, nearly every sports betting

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Speaker 1: operated worldwide is somehow connected to sports there and mostly

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Speaker 1: we are the primary provided for them if it comes

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Speaker 1: to the raw material to the data. But we are

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Speaker 1: much more interested beside the data. We really add products

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Speaker 1: on top of the data, stick probabilities, the trading products,

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Speaker 1: and that gives you them. The the simple ask all

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Speaker 1: clients which we know in the us M, count them

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Speaker 1: and look what else is in the market. And that's

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Speaker 1: how we came to the nine. So who's your competitor this?

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Speaker 1: Who's your competitor in in providing this data? I would

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Speaker 1: like that you're competitive, you know, let's say market companients. UM.

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Speaker 1: We have market companions in many sectors. So we are

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Speaker 1: not only providing data. We are providing all the O

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Speaker 1: rigual services UM. We are providing media services, UM. We

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Speaker 1: are providing integritew services UM and photologious elements. We have companions,

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Speaker 1: but we have not one who's providing the full range

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Speaker 1: which we provide. So from this perspective, you might say

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Speaker 1: we are unique. Carston. You know, it's funny you mentioned

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Speaker 1: integrity services, and earlier in our conversation you mentioned all

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Speaker 1: these new countries coming online. You mentioned Brazil, you mentioned Malaysia,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned China. You know, and let's just be clear.

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Speaker 1: You know, China is a black hole when it comes

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Speaker 1: to all things sport related. But let's just focus on

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Speaker 1: soccer for example, where the head of China's national soccer

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Speaker 1: federation has just been arrested on corruption charges. And again

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Speaker 1: this isn't the first time we've seen graft involved in

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Speaker 1: Chinese sports and athletics. And so my stion for you

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Speaker 1: is giving your focus on integrity. Given what sport Rader

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Speaker 1: does in helping to catch graft and gambling, gambling and

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Speaker 1: accuracies and and and and and cheating and things of

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Speaker 1: that nature, you know, how do you approach a country

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Speaker 1: like China in terms of doing all that you do.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that you asked this question. So, look, sport

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Speaker 1: raders um vision and some principles is we are standing

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Speaker 1: for fair play UM. We want to have fair play

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Speaker 1: in the company amongst our people, with our clients but

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Speaker 1: also with sport Um and whatever we can can contribute

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Speaker 1: to make this happen is what we happenly do UM.

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Speaker 1: So finding now on one country like China is a

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Speaker 1: good sample, but there are many more countries which have

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Speaker 1: problems in this perspective. There are many more federations which

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Speaker 1: have issues with their members which tasted that because we're

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Speaker 1: probably not screen them good enough, or there are players

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Speaker 1: which are more exposed to manipulations than others and they

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Speaker 1: are not trained well enough. So for us UM we

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Speaker 1: see that as as as our obligation that we provide

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Speaker 1: these kind of services and that's not pure for profits,

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Speaker 1: so we do not earn money in the intecutal sector.

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Speaker 1: But integrity is one one area here. Another one is

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Speaker 1: responsible game. A third one is a m L where

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Speaker 1: you need to know you're clime. A fourth one is

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Speaker 1: can you can you really provide a system to regulators

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Speaker 1: that they can mutually tax up all the ones which

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Speaker 1: get a license there it's a big issue in many

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Speaker 1: countries and there is a big fraud ongoing. Other services

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Speaker 1: we can help business because we have a knowledge on this.

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Speaker 1: We have systems and platforms in place which can work

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Speaker 1: on it. We can analyze player behaviors, and that's what

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Speaker 1: we happened because we believe we must work on high

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Speaker 1: standards in this perspective, and we believe the only way

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Speaker 1: for regulating is the market is that you have the

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Speaker 1: highest standards and what other sport Radar can happen to

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Speaker 1: we are happily to in this. We are not criticizing

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Speaker 1: the contracts. Were trying to help them to open the

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Speaker 1: eyes and and in case if they want to regulate

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Speaker 1: markets and if they want to help us in that market,

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Speaker 1: we want to have that highest standards in and be

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Speaker 1: happy to invest you. So that's how we see this area.

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Speaker 1: Sport Radar. You guys are an official partner with NASCAR

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Speaker 1: ahead of the Daytona five hundred, the NBA, NASCAR, Uh,

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Speaker 1: the NHL. Did I mentioned NASCAR? Uh? I hear that

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Speaker 1: you like the NASCAR are in the silent period and

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Speaker 1: I can't even tell you exciting developments with NASCAR. That's

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Speaker 1: a that's a but you mentioned NASCAR. I heard that. Well.

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Speaker 1: See my question is because I mean you deal with

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Speaker 1: a lot of world sports obviously with FIFA and UEFA,

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Speaker 1: even the NBA obviously out that's reaching out in other

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Speaker 1: parts of the world. Nascar, I mean, let's be honest.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm one of those guys, was born and raised

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Speaker 1: in Detroit, got family in the South, and I'm about

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Speaker 1: his classy sometimes as an outhouse. So just wondering if

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Speaker 1: NASCAR one day we'll have to spread its roots and

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Speaker 1: maybe people outside of the United States will embrace betting

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Speaker 1: with NASCAR. Have I told you already that we are

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Speaker 1: in the silent period, that the moment, yea. But let's

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Speaker 1: take it in this way I can unthoughtedly. Um. Now,

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Speaker 1: I can't tell you we have a corporation with some

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Speaker 1: imagine the NBA, it's with the n NHL, and it's

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Speaker 1: with the MR. Let's take hockey a book, which is

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Speaker 1: a more international sport. Thank you, thank you, and and

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Speaker 1: the target, like you're just said with NASCA, is the

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Speaker 1: same for hockey. UM. I was speaking to the team

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Speaker 1: owners that had the pleasant to be invited to their

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Speaker 1: annual meeting, and there's a big focus of saying, hey Carson,

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Speaker 1: um in how many countries do you have clients? And

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Speaker 1: that around about a hundred fifteen countries in the world.

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Speaker 1: Um is that then they're all consuming hockey? Is that

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Speaker 1: many of them do? Um? And with this you can

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Speaker 1: distribute the product of hockey all of a sudden two

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Speaker 1: hundred fifteen countries. Then it's only the question a lot

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Speaker 1: of a product do you allow? Do you allow a

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Speaker 1: product which is based on all the unusual feeds? We

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Speaker 1: have the technology. If we have that feeds, we can

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Speaker 1: enrich them this data and we can make this very sticky.

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Speaker 1: We can put even the speed of the park here

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Speaker 1: in the simulations and make this more repeating, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden, as hockey, you reach much more eye boats.

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Speaker 1: Then it's only a question can you read can you

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Speaker 1: read that eyeboats? Can you give them most preparably a

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Speaker 1: customized product that they get something which they want to see,

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Speaker 1: but the players which they want to see. But it

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Speaker 1: has an enormous potential to promote the brand that goes

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Speaker 1: by the way for older US sports I just was

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Speaker 1: talking about. The NBA is for sure a very global

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Speaker 1: business already touching a lot of eyeballs. But we even

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Speaker 1: can help here, and I think that's an important element.

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Speaker 1: So sports batting is touching sports fans, and we have

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Speaker 1: a huge distribution powering that if we have innovative products

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Speaker 1: which are appealing for the fans, it can promote sports

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Speaker 1: relatively cheaply and create that engagement, and that goes them

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Speaker 1: into sponsorship, merchandizing, ticketing, maybe sports batting, maybe gaming and gambling,

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Speaker 1: maybe hybrid activities. UM so a super territory. Carson Literate

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Speaker 1: the band aid off. You know, we're talking about hockey,

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Speaker 1: We're talking about NASCAR. Um last time you were he

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Speaker 1: visited us, you talked about some of the sports that

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Speaker 1: are taking off in sports gambling, you talked about cricket,

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Speaker 1: you talked about tennis. I mean, talk to us about

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Speaker 1: some of those other sports you know out along the fringe,

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Speaker 1: Like how are they doing? Are they really starting to

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Speaker 1: make a contribution in terms of in terms of you know,

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Speaker 1: the amount of the amount of money being wagered here

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Speaker 1: in the US and abroad. Yes, especially tennis, I can

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Speaker 1: tell you is very closely looking into this album and

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Speaker 1: and there are some some very exciting things on the horizon.

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Speaker 1: So I think tennis has a huge potential in the US.

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Speaker 1: It has a huge potential for sports betting, It has

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Speaker 1: a huge potential for doing something generally with the sports fan,

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Speaker 1: I think totally underdeveloped comparing it to other sports. So

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Speaker 1: I would love and we would love to be the

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Speaker 1: technology partner for tennis to help them for more and

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Speaker 1: the most experience here. And I think there is a

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Speaker 1: lot of things which can be done around this UM

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Speaker 1: and yeah, we touched last time on you developing sports,

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Speaker 1: and I think there are a couple of nice opportunities

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Speaker 1: in the US and some of the sports, some of

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Speaker 1: them probably not some of them dreamed at sports betting

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Speaker 1: that they are good for sports betting. But January, speaking

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Speaker 1: for a potential perspective, the US has one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest bill potentials to promote some more sports than the

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Speaker 1: Big Four. Carsten Carl, Founder, chief executive officer and director

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Speaker 1: of sport Radar, Thank you, sir very much for talking

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Speaker 1: with us on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. We really

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Speaker 1: do appreciate it. Pleasure. Thanks for having I'm Michael Lascar

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Speaker 1: and you can follow me more on Twitter at Big Bars.

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Speaker 1: All right, to complate that game, I'm Scarlett Hockey, follow

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Speaker 1: me on Twitter at Scarlett Pools and I'm Damian Tennis.

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Speaker 1: You can follow me at This has been the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: business of NASCAR and you can follow the show every Monday,

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Speaker 1: Wednesday and Thursday by the way Down. Love this show

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Speaker 1: and wherever you get in the podcast. H