WEBVTT - The Toll of Incarceration 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:07.240 That's how we are. What's that family? I'm your girl 0:00:07.360 --> 0:00:09.880 to make a d. Mallory and it's your boy my 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:13.000 son in general, and we're your whole sweep politicians, the 0:00:13.039 --> 0:00:17.439 place where the and politics meet. What's going on my mind? 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:20.759 How you doing today? I am blesseding, Holly favorite, I 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.919 am ambitious. I'm a young black man in America. We're 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:27.240 not really young, but I'm you know, I'm onna comes. 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:29.840 I'm not being old but not being young. I'm right 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:31.880 in the middle there, and I'm feeling good. Man. How 0:00:31.880 --> 0:00:34.480 are you feeling to that? You're pretty young? You're pretty young. 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:43.519 You know you're you're almost fifty is still young? Jesus Christ. 0:00:44.200 --> 0:00:51.520 I just push your push hun there. That is good 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:54.040 to you. Listen, man, I'm good to me. You know 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:57.280 what I'm doing wrong, crack, don't care what it is. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.320 It's black dot crap. Man. They still think I'm sick. 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:04.440 I'll tell you that forty and now forty one is 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:07.720 definitely good to me, So I know that if this 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:11.800 feels good. They say forty, you grow up in your thirties. 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.120 You're growing up. Forty you grown, But fifty you don't 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:17.640 give no more. You just say whatever. You want to say, 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:20.560 and that's it. People don't like it. Oh well so, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:22.920 but I always been like that, So it ain't gonna 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:26.120 be much different for me. Maybe you never know, it 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:28.800 might be a little different just atle bit. If I 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.640 get any more unhinged than not giving the funding saying 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:33.440 what the funk I want to say, it ain't gonna 0:01:33.480 --> 0:01:37.800 work out too good. Well, we got some friends that 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.039 definitely say what they want to say, and they are 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.360 and I think they're a little different. But I think 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:47.160 about Core Masks, Barry and Hazel Dukes. Those are two women. 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:50.400 That's that's a whole nother level of that. That's the 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.400 whole level level. Don't give a fuck us. They don't 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:58.720 give a funk about your feelings, grown grown women, grown women. 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.600 Oh yeah, that's that's adult, grown women. And we've got 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:05.440 they're talking exactly what they feel. It ain't no filter 0:02:05.560 --> 0:02:09.840 and none of that. Yeah. Yeah, man, So the world 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.560 is still the world. There's still so much happening in 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:20.120 the world. I was looking online, um earlier this week 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:28.440 and watching like how many different cases are happening around 0:02:28.440 --> 0:02:33.160 the country with like people, um, you know, being killed, 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:35.760 people tagging us. Did you hear about this. Did you 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.200 hear about that? Though. I just feel like I'm constantly 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.079 my head just spends around in this society because it's 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.720 just so much happening at once. It is, it really is, man, 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:51.399 you know, like you said, the cases, the violence pandemic, 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.240 that this is just so much. Man, you just need 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.720 to take time to breathe. Like the last couple of days, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:03:00.760 I've been just taking time to just think, you know, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.280 just the exhale and just think, because you gotta take 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:07.000 it in. Man. It's like being in the information error. 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:11.799 Information is coming so fast and it's just overloads man. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.360 So I know. And and this is me as an 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.840 adult man who is pretty much seasoned and those things, 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.959 so I know how much this is affecting these young 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.720 kids that they don't even know, you know, they don't 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.600 have the wisdom and experience that somebody that's older has. 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.680 So man, I'm just I'm praying for our babies. Man, 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:31.600 I'm just trying to do whatever we can. We just 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.160 gotta make it a little better for them and a 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.920 little easier for them, making it better for the little kids. 0:03:36.960 --> 0:03:40.600 And you know, speaking of that, uh, one one good 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:44.040 thing that did happen just a few days ago. Um 0:03:44.320 --> 0:03:48.920 is that in the Jamarion Robinson case in Atlanta where 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:52.920 he was shot by police officers seventies six times. Man, 0:03:53.040 --> 0:03:55.680 I mean between Gerald Griggs, the head of the n 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.080 double a CP and also an attorney in Atlanta, Queen 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.320 your NaSTA, how uh Kimberly Latrice Jones. These are folks 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.760 that have been working on this case and standing with 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.840 Ja Marion's family for oh for five years. This happened 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.200 five years ago. He was shot seventy six times, and 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:18.840 finally there has been an indictment of two officers. Um. 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:24.240 And you know, just seeing uh miss Maria Robinson, Jamarrion's mother, 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:29.039 just watching her exhale to say that she fought the 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:32.000 good fight and never gave up on behalf of her son. 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:35.800 It was so powerful, so powerful. And I tell you, 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:40.000 people don't realize how having those leaders that are named 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:43.479 to be there every step and away with you like 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:46.839 there's nothing that I know. Families that look at me 0:04:46.880 --> 0:04:48.919 and say, yo, we don't know how we would have 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.919 done it if people didn't continue to show up and 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.680 to be there, And it's just it's a powerful, powerful 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.400 moment for the movement to see that after five years 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.880 there's act really an indictment, because by now most of 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.159 the time we've received the news that there won't be 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.800 an indictment. Yeah, and shout out to Jamario's mother. I 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.520 met her a couple of years ago. Man, She is 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:15.400 beautiful woman, you know. You know, as much as we 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:19.039 we feel jaded and the system has failed most of 0:05:19.040 --> 0:05:22.120 the times, I have to say that we are slowly 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:26.720 starting to see a shift an acknowledgement. At least there's 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:30.719 an acknowledgement that people are being killed. You know, before 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.400 there wasn't even acknowledgement, you know, so slowly. We still 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:35.680 got to get Brianna to We still need justice for 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.640 Brianna Taylor, man, and we still need justice for so 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:42.400 many different other people, so many different I can't even name. 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:45.200 But you know, just in this case, we just got 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:47.719 to be able to say, you know, we fought a 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.080 good fight and we actually got some good news at 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:54.320 this point. So shut out everyone. And I said her 0:05:54.360 --> 0:06:01.640 her name wrong, it's actually Monteria, yes, so just correct that. 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.799 But yeah, shout out to everybody here and to your point, 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.240 and indictment is a slither, a slither that's in the 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:11.960 direction of justice to actually have to get convictions, then 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:14.720 you gotta get them sent to prison, and that's a 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:17.200 lot of work. So the folks who've been on the ground, 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:22.640 this gives them the energy where the real fight begins. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:28.839 And that brings me to my thought of the day. 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.520 I try my best to use these moments to think 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.240 of things that are also on the minds of those 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.159 people who are listening. Right. So, you know, while yes, 0:06:40.560 --> 0:06:43.719 we have a show that covers a lot of political topics, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.839 a lot of community projects, social justice issues, but we 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.279 also are humans. And that's what Street Politicians was always about, 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:54.839 being able to cover culture and politics at one time. 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.120 And so last night I was having a night's conversation 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.440 with our sister, do Wanna Tom's and who is UM 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.719 in Atlanta? I mean, excuse me, lives in Birmingham, Alabama. 0:07:04.800 --> 0:07:10.200 She Um is an incredible organizer, She's an incredible businesswoman. 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:14.480 She is UM just like so so many things, all things, dope, 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.120 you don't know do Wanna Thompson please, she's been on 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:21.440 our show, folks, researchers. She's a political consultant. UM, very 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:25.239 successful black woman. UM. And there were other black women 0:07:25.280 --> 0:07:29.200 at the table. We were all just talking about you know, uh, 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.000 It really came up because we were talking about meat 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:37.040 crossing and becoming an a member of Alpha Cappa Alpha 0:07:37.160 --> 0:07:40.320 Sorority Incorporated. Because you gotta say all that and make 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.760 sure that you say it right. Um. And so as 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.680 we were talking about that, we're talking about Kappa men, 0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:51.640 Alpha men, and just talking about why we as black women, 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:57.920 successful black women are single, so many of us. And 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.520 there were men at the table, and older man in particular, 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:06.520 who started to say that we as women have lots, 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:13.440 we as successful women have too many demands. And I'm 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:18.560 wondering if everybody else feels that the reason why so 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:21.600 many of them of us are single is because our 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:27.960 expectations are too high. All night I was thinking, are 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:33.040 expects Can your expectations be too high for yourself? Well, 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:36.040 I mean that's it's it's based on who you are, right, 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.560 it's based on what you think. They might not be 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.480 too hot for you in your mind, but if they're 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:43.839 actually not being met, right, if you if you can't 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:47.320 find something that fits your expectations, then you might have 0:08:47.400 --> 0:08:50.600 to rethink your expectation, right. I mean if you look 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:52.800 at y'all want this, and I want this, and you're 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:56.720 going everywhere eation, but I don't know what it is 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.560 because I don't know what everybody expectation is. I just 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.160 think they don't have realistic expectations. I think, you know, 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.160 I think in relationships, and I say this all the 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:13.480 time that women fall in love with the fantasy of relationship, 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.800 not the reality of it, right because in their mind 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.920 is they watching on TV and then they've got their 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.640 their perspectives of what love is supposed to be by 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.720 their favorite show in the movie where he grabs her hand, 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.280 he kisses her, he picks her up, and he does 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.000 all these things, and there's there's none of this term 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:33.640 when you don't see none of this stuff. It's just 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.120 like people who watch anything else. They watch the sport 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:38.720 and they say, yo, I want to be Michael Jordan, 0:09:38.800 --> 0:09:41.280 But they don't never watch him practicing. They don't talk 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.440 about when he got cut from the team. They don't 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:45.559 see when he broke his ankle. They don't see when 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.000 his brother used to whip his ass in basketball, be 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.160 daying dump on it. They don't see none of those things. 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.000 He had to stay in there the gym all day. 0:09:52.360 --> 0:09:55.240 Women have the same mentality when it comes to relationships. 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.000 They a lot of them, a lot of them, all 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:00.520 of them. I won't say, no, there's no absolute. There 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.080 are a lot of women who want all of the 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.080 fun and the glitz and the love and the romance 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.800 and all of the good times. They don't want nothing 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:11.560 that comes with the the bad times that come with it. 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:15.200 So you see, I agree with that because I know 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.080 a lot of women who are willing to struggle and 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.280 go through not not so much struggle, but the growing 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.280 pains of a relationship. But they still have certain things 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:28.280 that are just not acceptable. And when you say you know, well, 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.400 I guess this kind of contradicts my whole point because 0:10:31.679 --> 0:10:35.000 when you talk about most of us getting these fantasies 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.480 from TV, my fantasy comes from my father and how 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.920 good he is to my mother, how amazing he is 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:44.800 as a man. But I guess the contradiction is that 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:48.120 she went through a lot to get to the place 0:10:48.559 --> 0:10:51.720 that they are at today. And I'm sure he would 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:53.720 say that, hey, she wasn't just a cup of iced 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:57.520 tea when he get hurt. But the problem is the 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.200 thing is, you're looking at the relationship right and you 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.880 you you're looking at the end all you and you're 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.800 looking at where we are now right, And all the time, 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.920 all the ship that she dealt with that you're saying 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:11.400 that you won't dealt with, you won't deal with right 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:13.520 now that she dealt with, you just didn't know what 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.439 she dealt with it, right. And that's what a lot 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:17.400 of women do. Right. A lot of women say, I'm 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.439 not gonna deal with this, I'm not going through this. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.679 This is my expectation of man. Gotta be this, you 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:23.840 gotta do that, you gotta do this right. And then 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.160 other women be like, yeah, yeah, and they ain't deal 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:28.000 with men who ain't doing none of that ship. They're 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:29.839 going through it. And when you see them, they look 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.200 like they're smiling, they're happy, and they're dealing with a 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:34.040 man that ain't doing to doing none of the ship 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.520 you're talking about. They get into a certain place, they're 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:39.000 going through ups and downs, they're going through so much ship. 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.640 Every day. They're ready to break up, they're ready to cry, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:44.000 they're leaving. They this they didn't broke it, They don't 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.160 went through all the type of ship that the average 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.560 person doesn't know about their relationship. But in in in 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:53.160 to the public, everybody ain't gonna deal with this type 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:54.840 of man. I'm not gonna let my man do this. 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:56.560 I don't want a man that doesn't do this. I 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.800 don't everybody has these things and it's and it's not 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.240 really so, but it's okay. So what my real question 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:06.040 that what I was thinking about is like, so we 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:11.400 shouldn't have standards or expectations, but yet men have expectations 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:14.040 and they have standards because there's certain things that we 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:16.920 as women cannot get away with. But what I'm trying 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.319 to tell you is this, right, you have to have 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.640 a realistic standard. Right If a man has a standard 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:26.720 about a woman and he dates ten women, he can't 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:29.520 find that standard, and another woman he takes twenty, if 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:31.599 all his whole life he was trying to find a 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.400 certain standard of a woman and he don't find it, 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:38.840 then that that that expectation is not realistic. Right now, 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.280 if a woman is dating all these men, you've been 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:43.439 you forty and you fifty, and you dating man and 0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:45.480 you're like, we just can't do I want a man 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:47.600 have done this and that and you and you ain't 0:12:47.640 --> 0:12:50.000 got him at fifty And not saying he don't exist, 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.199 I'm just saying that the probability of what you're looking 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:58.400 for being not realistic. It's higher if because I don't 0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:01.640 think men have expectations about women that they don't find. 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.160 Most men have expectations, right, and they find a woman 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:07.640 and said, oh, that's the one I want. Good, this 0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:10.960 is what I'm looking for. The women change, the woman's 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.760 expectations change, or the woman starts to want more or 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.360 feel like it's not so most, for the most part, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:22.120 men don't have. It's bigger problem. It's because because we 0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:26.880 because we as women come doubt, we come pretty much 0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:31.599 put together. A lot of us come financially stable. We 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:37.640 come cooking cleaning. That's not true. You're not doing that. 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.000 That's not a lot of a lot of that's not true. 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:44.560 That's not true. And they're all women who do come 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.959 the way that I'm talking to understand the need to cook, clean. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.800 But you having those conversations, right, You having no conversations 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.760 with them, right. If you have conversations with the men 0:13:55.880 --> 0:14:00.000 that they probably did, they'll probably have a completely different 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.560 understand that this person you're talking about everything in everybody's 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.280 mind near the perfect mate for somebody else. Everybody can 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:09.400 tell you I do this this and now I'm dope 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.360 this and I don't think it's nobody that you will 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.240 act and say, yo, you think you compatible for a relationship, 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.040 And then I'm like, nah, I don't do this. I 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.280 don't do this. I'm not this type of person. To 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:21.520 my man, nobody's gonna say that. So you can have 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:23.520 a conversation with a bunch of women that look dope 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:25.600 and they've got all these things and you don't know 0:14:26.000 --> 0:14:29.680 what you think, and the women are lying. I'm no, 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.520 I'm just it's not really lying their perceptions of themselves 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.240 in the reality of who they are to other people. 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:43.920 That's it's completely different. Yeah, Okay, well listen, we gotta 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.840 move on with the show. But I think it's time 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.320 for us to circle back to some more conversations with 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.040 some powerful women. Who are they are the cook is 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:57.520 the cleanest, and the and some and some form of 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:02.040 bread winners. And yet still in all we are still single, 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.040 and it's too many of us that's single. And I 0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:05.960 could tell you men, tell you who can tell you? 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:15.160 While you sing? You Kevin Samuels, We bring Samuels. Here's 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.800 how I'm gonna deal with Kevin Samuels. And I'm really 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:23.000 sad that you would make him an example listen, listen, 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:28.400 let me say something. Let me just say you already 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.640 said it, because already said it, that you would make 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.920 him an example of a man who can tell me 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.960 why I'm not, why I'm single. Because when I listened 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:43.080 to Kevin Samuel, which I don't often, but the ones 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:45.400 or twice that I did. Yeah, even like we say 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.080 all the time, a broken clock can be right twice 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.400 a day, but he makes me feel diminished and devalued. 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:56.160 It's nothing about what it's nothing about what he's saying 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.880 that makes me feel encouraged and understand that they are 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.480 things that I could do better. Instead, he tries to 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:06.800 basically strip women of their self esteem and then somehow 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:08.920 another we're supposed to look at that as a way 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:15.560 to rebuild. I'm very I am very very upsad suggest 0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:19.000 him as an example. What I would say is this right, 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.920 I definitely agree with you. I think that his delivery, 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.360 in in his motive in which he delivers is in 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:31.720 his information, is just off right. It's totally off killed. 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:34.880 It's just totally off kill to like, totally off but 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.080 like you said, broken clap a lot of time, disrespectful 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.200 and harmful it is. And that's why I said, oh, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.640 off means disrespectful, off needs, off needs. You could get 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:47.120 up and say I was off today like today. But 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.160 what I'm trying to tell you is this if if 0:16:49.400 --> 0:16:51.080 if you come to me right and you say yo, 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.120 which five five, and I say it's tender, motherfucker, fucker's 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:56.680 wrong with you don't know what the fund is tending? 0:16:57.080 --> 0:16:59.560 And I start cursing at you. The delivery of this 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:03.200 message just completely off. No reason for me to be cursed. 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.520 It's wrong, it's disrespectful. What I'm trying to tell you 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:10.479 is I wouldn't deliver the message away. But five us 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.920 five is ten, right. So what I'm trying to say 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:18.760 is it depends on it. Because everybody gains information differently. 0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:21.400 There's a lot of and I want you to acknowledge 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.760 this right, There are a lot of women. His his 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.320 biggest fan base is probably woman who go there to 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.600 listen to this information and they go on his page 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.720 to talk to him. So the way you feel, and 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.119 I agree with you, I wouldn't. You couldn't talk to 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:36.480 me this way. I want to allow you talk to 0:17:36.520 --> 0:17:39.720 my mother, my sister. I'm just wildn't allowed. I wouldn't 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.600 talk to a women that way. But unfortunately, they are 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:45.600 women who are receiving this information and they go there 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.800 for the information after watching him talk to them a 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:50.760 bunch of ways like that, And these are not and 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.720 these are not women who are not well to do. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:57.720 They're not women who are ignorant. I've seen him have debates, 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.320 and I've seen him have arguments and go back and 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:06.479 forth with strong black women and debate. But again, sometimes 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:11.159 you go down but here. But here's my position on 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.840 it is that I wouldn't give him five minutes of 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.000 a platform, and I'm sure he wouldn't give me a 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:19.200 platform either, So his name never comes out of my mouth. 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.080 I'm never gonna suggest to anybody that they go and 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:25.560 listen to him as a way to get information about 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.680 what's happening in their lives. Under no circumstances would he 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:34.840 be in my mind of a suggestion. Pretty much not Actually, 0:18:34.880 --> 0:18:37.040 because you didn't. You didn't see that it was a 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:39.440 joke for the beginning when I said it. But it's 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.560 not funny. That's why I'm saying, it's not like Kevin 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:46.320 said it was. People listen to me. I can get 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:50.320 information from anyone. You can learn a lot from sometimes 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:54.280 I'm hard and how I speak to my child, and 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.360 sometimes i'm I'm I'm hard and what I say to myself, 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.040 But I'm saying that I'm not making a brand and 0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:04.639 of diminishing people and making them feel like they are 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:10.200 being destroyed and then built again in some weird, twisted way. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.000 So for me, I passed on the brother. But for 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.359 others that may like him and he's their cup of tea. 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.040 You know, I'm not the type of person that's going 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:19.680 to tell you not to go where you think you 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:21.879 need to go to drink the type of water that 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.800 you need so you could be whole. Yeah, you know, 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.399 and and and and that's that all that. LaToya Bond 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:34.960 also with her husband um Uh James Bond, who is 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.879 our there our family they actually are, have created a 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.960 brand called a family Bond, and they spent a lot 0:19:44.040 --> 0:19:49.920 of time discussing and delivering information about how to stay married, 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:54.320 how to keep your significant other, um you know, sort 0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:59.720 of excited if you will, um. You know, what to 0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:02.479 do as a man to make your wife feel loved, 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:06.280 you know, how to to honor your king, honor your man. 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.720 And I would much rather to get my information from them, 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:13.200 and I would to go to see my boy James, 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.480 My boy James Bond. Make sure you check out his 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:21.920 page and family Van and the dadi is also shout 0:20:21.960 --> 0:20:24.520 out to Dadish the brand. Shout out to La Toya, 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.200 We love you, keep doing what you do. So now 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.240 let's get into our guests, because we've been talking um, 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.920 but we have two important individuals that's coming up. And 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.560 just for folks who are listening and watching, we pre 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:41.400 taped these interviews, so you'll hear uh some time frames 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.640 that sound a little different from the day that we're 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:47.560 actually in. But we were trying to get information, especially 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.680 from our first guest, Tiffany Lofting, about what's happening with 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:55.719 Julius Jones, the young man who is on death row 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.919 UM for a crime that he did not commit. Uh. 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.960 So we're gonna Bringiffany on right now to talk to 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:04.240 us about Julius, and then we're gonna hear from another 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:11.159 powerful sister once again. We have another one of our 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:16.600 friends were I wouldn't even say friends, our sister, our comrade, conflicts, 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:22.359 our partners and justice. Tiffany Dina Lofton. She is the 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:25.840 immediate past National Director of the n double A CP 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.960 youth in college. She's also one of our biggest advisors 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.399 that until Freedom, and she's the senior advisor at Grassroots 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:37.320 Law Projects. Welcome to the show. Finally, Dina, I don't 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:42.600 even call it Tiffany. I call it Dina. What's going on? 0:21:43.520 --> 0:21:46.000 I can't believe you haven't been on our show. That's 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:49.280 like crazy, Like I thought you were one of the first. 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:53.080 We had all of Stephen Green, Leslie Redman, we had 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:59.440 all of our um young leading organizes on At one point, 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:01.359 I had no idea that you have been with us. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.240 But I guess today is the right time. Today is 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:06.360 the day. Today is the day. Slow and steady, we've 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:08.040 been working out here. So I'm just honor to be 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:10.280 on the show. And even if I'm not on the show, 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:12.800 I with y'all in person, so and I've met I've 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:16.080 done better at that. And I think that's what it is. 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:19.080 You with us so much that we assume that you 0:22:19.240 --> 0:22:21.600 on the show. You know what I'm saying, Like, Tiffany 0:22:21.680 --> 0:22:24.720 been there three I thought you three times. I was 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:26.560 with you on the studio. I just wasn't on the screen, 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.520 but here we got here, Like Tiffany is the show 0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:32.840 you are the show. You are the work. Thank you, sir, 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:36.920 thank you, thank you. You know as much as we 0:22:37.400 --> 0:22:39.760 love you and we we we you know, we could 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:41.800 do a little small talk all the time. Right now, 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:43.919 we have serious business and you're here to give us 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:49.080 some updates, you know about brother Julius and um what's 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:51.719 what's currently going on? And I've here there's a lot 0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.680 of little things going you know, some negative, someonere positive 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:59.560 as of late. So give us some updates. So I'm 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.960 gonna start with this top headline. Elections are so damn important, y'all. 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:11.160 Elections are so damn important. So, uh, today is Thursday. 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:16.480 We're on Monday. I flew from Washington, d C. To 0:23:16.840 --> 0:23:21.159 Oklahoma City anticipating Julius's clemency hearing that was going to 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:25.280 take place at nine am. When I landed around nine 0:23:25.400 --> 0:23:28.280 pm on that Monday, I got my phone was blowing 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:30.320 up telling me that the coming to hearing had been postponed, 0:23:30.920 --> 0:23:33.679 and I was trying to figure out why. In two 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:36.399 thousand and fifteen, the state of Oklahoma halted all of 0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.359 its executions. It is the It is one of the 0:23:39.440 --> 0:23:41.400 deadliest states, and I think it's the second, but it's 0:23:41.480 --> 0:23:44.560 one of the deadliest states in um when it comes 0:23:44.600 --> 0:23:47.360 to the death penalty, there were a couple of botched 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.639 executions that took place in What that means is and 0:23:50.760 --> 0:23:52.399 so I need people to breathe. This is really how 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.879 you talk about. What that means is that they issued 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:59.280 two executions through lethal injection, but the cocktail of the 0:23:59.359 --> 0:24:02.640 lethal injection and didn't work, and so people suffered before 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:07.600 they died. So Oklahoma stopped the executions in Julius is 0:24:07.640 --> 0:24:10.160 one of seven people. Julius Jones is one of seven 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:13.520 people who is now scheduled on death row to be 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:17.159 executed between now, which was supposed to be today, with 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.359 the first being John, a gentleman named John Grant, until 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:22.720 March of next year. There are seven people on that 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:25.439 list in that roster. The state of Oklahoma is now 0:24:25.480 --> 0:24:28.959 saying we're just going to continue these executions. Nothing has 0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:31.399 happened since until now. They're just saying we want to 0:24:31.440 --> 0:24:35.359 continue them. But they went to these seven people on 0:24:35.480 --> 0:24:38.159 death row and said to them, if we can't do 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:40.720 the legal injection because it doesn't work, how else do 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:46.160 you want to be killed? M hm wow. Six out 0:24:46.200 --> 0:24:49.480 of the seven of them said, I you you're not 0:24:49.560 --> 0:24:51.760 going to make me choose my way to commit suicide, 0:24:52.359 --> 0:24:55.119 and it is actually against my religious beliefs to commit suicide. 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:57.560 So I'm not giving you that that that that easy 0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:03.080 way out. On September three, team the pardoner Parole Board, 0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.639 who are people appointed by the governor and the governor 0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:11.560 is selected by the people. They passed a decision, a 0:25:11.600 --> 0:25:15.119 recommendation to the governor basically saying, keep Julius alive with 0:25:15.240 --> 0:25:18.320 the possibility of parole, don't kill him. We have evidence 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:21.080 that that proves that he could be innocent. Now, the 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:23.320 partner of roleboard is not a court or jury, it's 0:25:23.359 --> 0:25:25.480 just the pardner of parole Board, so only power that 0:25:25.520 --> 0:25:27.040 the only power that they have is to issue a 0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:29.919 recommendation to the governor. The governor looked at that recommendation 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:32.600 and said, I'm not going to make this decision. Y'all 0:25:32.640 --> 0:25:34.600 go back and have an entire hearing and do it again. 0:25:35.840 --> 0:25:37.440 There's a couple of reasons why he could have did that. 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:39.960 My personal belief is he's been too much of a 0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:42.520 punk to make a decision when he could easily at 0:25:42.560 --> 0:25:45.199 any moment in time, sign a piece of paper stopping 0:25:45.240 --> 0:25:47.760 this entire process and freeing Julius and making sure he's 0:25:47.760 --> 0:25:50.120 home for the holidays. The governor has not done that yet. 0:25:50.240 --> 0:25:52.600 He keeps putting the blame and trying to redirect it. 0:25:52.640 --> 0:25:55.680 So the pardner of Parole Board can now have that responsibility. 0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:58.200 He does not want to make that decision. So a 0:25:58.240 --> 0:25:59.919 lot of stuff has happened since then that we can 0:26:00.119 --> 0:26:02.800 talk about later. But where we're at right now, it's 0:26:02.880 --> 0:26:06.440 because of because of the protest that those seven people took. 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:08.920 Excuse me, six out of the seven people took saying 0:26:09.320 --> 0:26:11.000 don't kill me. I don't want to be killed. You 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:13.879 better figure this out. There was a lawsuit on the 0:26:13.920 --> 0:26:17.240 state of Oklahoma that went to the Supreme Court. The 0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:20.520 Supreme Court said, go ahead and continue with the executions. 0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:23.119 Since they don't since they didn't find another way. They 0:26:23.119 --> 0:26:24.960 didn't didn't tell us how else they want to be killed, 0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:28.000 go ahead and do lethal injection. Then we were worried 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:30.359 about that, and so then we found out that the 0:26:30.400 --> 0:26:34.200 Tenth Circuit, because they got challenged, the Tenth Circuit, which 0:26:34.280 --> 0:26:36.320 is the regional court of that area that which Oklahoma 0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:39.040 is a part of, said no, no, no, on all 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:42.320 y'all acting crazy over there in Oklahoma. No execution. Stop it. 0:26:43.000 --> 0:26:45.359 This has been a this has been a game, and 0:26:45.440 --> 0:26:49.440 it's been really hard as somebody who's organized was supporting 0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:52.040 the local members on the ground, supporting the family, both 0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:55.639 Antoinette Jones and uh Mom I called Mama Jones, but 0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:59.400 Madeline Jones, Mama Jones, and their brother and their dad, 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:03.400 and especially Julius who's been on death watch for over 0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:06.959 a week listening to these different reports come in. At 0:27:07.000 --> 0:27:08.640 any point in time, I am I gonna get killed. 0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:10.000 I'm not gonna ge killed. You're gonna kill me, I'm 0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:12.000 not gonna kill me. It's been an emotional rold coaster 0:27:12.200 --> 0:27:14.840 for the family, for the community, and especially for Julius. 0:27:15.560 --> 0:27:18.040 Where we're at right now is because that Tenth Circuit 0:27:18.080 --> 0:27:23.719 said don't kill nobody. The Attorney General he has now 0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:26.600 tried to challenge that decision of the Tenth Circuit court 0:27:27.520 --> 0:27:31.320 and we are waiting for that response because of that 0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:36.440 challenge from the Attorney General General O'Connor. Today was October 0:27:37.080 --> 0:27:38.600 there was a gentleman by the name of John Grant 0:27:38.760 --> 0:27:41.679 was scheduled to be executed today. He is on pause. 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:45.960 Julius Jones. He has a set execution day for November 0:27:46.000 --> 0:27:49.280 eighteen because that Ted Circuit said no one more executions. 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:53.600 November eighteenth has been canceled. That is a victory, but 0:27:53.720 --> 0:27:56.399 it's not the long term victory. We want Julius to 0:27:56.480 --> 0:28:00.600 be free. Right if the November eighteenth is anceled, he 0:28:00.720 --> 0:28:03.440 stays in prison for the rest of his life. The 0:28:03.640 --> 0:28:07.959 only two opportunities we have right now to say Julius 0:28:08.000 --> 0:28:10.959 and get him home is one again, the general has 0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:14.000 excuse me, the governor has to sign the permission for 0:28:14.080 --> 0:28:16.919 him to be released, not just on his own accord, 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:19.600 but his own board. His partner broad board said this 0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:21.800 is the right thing to do, so he should sign 0:28:21.880 --> 0:28:25.800 that and go with their recommendation. Or Julius has a 0:28:25.880 --> 0:28:29.879 scheduled hearing, the clemency hearing that got rescheduled on November one, 0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:33.520 which is this coming Monday. We need that clemency hearing 0:28:33.560 --> 0:28:36.200 to happen so that Julius can tell his story for 0:28:36.280 --> 0:28:38.720 the first time, so that people can so that we 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:40.920 can hear what his alibi, what he was at home 0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:43.360 with his family when the murder happened. We have to 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:45.600 be able to have the witnesses and the information and 0:28:45.640 --> 0:28:48.360 the stuff that was not shared the first time twenty 0:28:48.400 --> 0:28:50.760 one years ago, when Julius had his first case and 0:28:50.880 --> 0:28:53.880 his attorneys didn't have any experience running a capital murder 0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:56.560 case or dealing with anybody on death row. We are 0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:58.600 calling for November one to happen. For that hearing to 0:28:58.680 --> 0:29:01.680 take place, we need a Governor's Pardner in Parole Board 0:29:01.720 --> 0:29:03.720 to happen. It is not up to the Partner in 0:29:03.800 --> 0:29:06.280 Parole Board if that's going to happen in November one. 0:29:06.680 --> 0:29:09.200 It's up to the executive director his name is Tom Bates, 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:11.360 and except to the General Council of the Partner in 0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:14.200 Parole Board. So we need those two solutions to happen 0:29:14.320 --> 0:29:16.720 right now. We need that hearing on Monday, and we 0:29:16.760 --> 0:29:19.680 need the governor to take action immediately so that Julius 0:29:19.760 --> 0:29:22.760 can come home and so that the Paul that the Paul, 0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:25.160 excuse me, Paul Howell's family, who was the man who 0:29:25.200 --> 0:29:27.480 was killed, his family can can be at ease and 0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:29.360 rest and recovery, because we are praying for his family 0:29:29.440 --> 0:29:31.520 to what happened to his family, what happened to him 0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:33.560 is not okay. But we also don't want them to 0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:37.040 kill another innocent man and call that justice just because 0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:39.000 we need the governor, and we need the Partner Parole 0:29:39.040 --> 0:29:41.520 Board to do the right thing. But but I'm under 0:29:41.560 --> 0:29:47.520 the understanding that Mr. Howell's family does not support the 0:29:48.080 --> 0:29:51.880 support they be. They do not support Julius being released. 0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:56.040 They do not support that. No, they do not accurate, Yes, ma'am. 0:29:56.440 --> 0:29:59.640 That is they do not they believe they believe that 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:04.760 even with all the evidence, all the information that has 0:30:05.040 --> 0:30:08.720 released over the last several years, but certainly most recently, 0:30:09.200 --> 0:30:12.160 all the work that has happened in the state of Oklahoma, 0:30:12.680 --> 0:30:18.320 even knowing because I I've actually watched uh information get 0:30:18.400 --> 0:30:22.560 out there about the person that is actually what that 0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:29.200 that is alleged to be um for um Mr Howell's murder. 0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:33.360 Even with all of that, the family is saying they 0:30:33.440 --> 0:30:38.320 still think Julius should be held and executed or just held. 0:30:38.880 --> 0:30:44.360 It's I've watched two interviews Oklahoma's media, They've had two interviews. 0:30:44.800 --> 0:30:46.600 I have watched them to makea say that they want 0:30:46.680 --> 0:30:49.280 him to be held and executed. That is what I've 0:30:49.320 --> 0:30:54.880 heard latest from the Hower family. Yes, it's just so unfortunate, man, 0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:57.840 just being being a victim of the injustice system, just 0:30:58.080 --> 0:31:00.400 understanding how they get it wrong, just under down how 0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:03.480 you can be falsely accused and sitting in just several 0:31:03.640 --> 0:31:07.920 time for a crime that you didn't commit. Right to 0:31:08.080 --> 0:31:10.480 know that there's a brother and and he's not the 0:31:10.560 --> 0:31:14.000 only brother. And throughout history we found out that people 0:31:14.040 --> 0:31:16.320 sitting on death row should have never been on even 0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:20.160 in prison. And to see that we still have a 0:31:20.320 --> 0:31:24.800 justice system that when there is even a shred or 0:31:24.960 --> 0:31:28.680 doubt that someone committed a crime, is willing to put 0:31:28.800 --> 0:31:32.720 someone to death? Is so is mind? Boy gun to me? 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:36.160 Like it doesn't if someone else admits to a crime 0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:40.160 that you're about to take someone's life for that in 0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:44.600 itself should at least say we're not taking this, you know. 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:47.400 And and and the fact that that is not the 0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:51.000 process is the fact that that doesn't immediately happen to me. 0:31:51.200 --> 0:31:55.160 It's just like who created these lords? Who? What? You know? 0:31:55.280 --> 0:31:57.280 They said that the lords is supposed to before the people, 0:31:57.360 --> 0:32:00.440 by the people. What people sat down and came up 0:32:00.520 --> 0:32:03.400 with this process and said that this made sense. Some 0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:06.480 very sick people my sidentists. I've learned a lot, so 0:32:06.640 --> 0:32:08.840 I've been doing organizing work for the last twelve years 0:32:09.320 --> 0:32:11.760 this I've worked on a lot of cases to free 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:14.719 people who were about to be executed. I've never been 0:32:14.800 --> 0:32:18.000 this close to the family, and I've spoken to Julius 0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:21.440 um there. There are two sick things that have come 0:32:21.520 --> 0:32:24.600 up for me in this case. One is I don't 0:32:24.680 --> 0:32:29.680 understand why if somebody in this case, Julius Jones. I 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:32.800 don't understand why if Julius Jones had a hearing that 0:32:33.000 --> 0:32:36.160 was scheduled so that he could testify, so that they 0:32:36.200 --> 0:32:38.720 can sort out the evidence and make a recommendation to 0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:42.720 the governor, I don't understand why then the warden of 0:32:42.800 --> 0:32:46.120 Oklahoma State Penitentiary where he is currently sitting, would put 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:51.360 him on death watch before his hearing took place. It's 0:32:51.520 --> 0:32:54.200 mind boggling to me. When you are about to be 0:32:54.280 --> 0:32:58.400 on death watch, they ask you the most sickening questions, 0:32:58.560 --> 0:33:01.160 what do you want your last meal to be? Who 0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:03.360 do you want to hold your hand when you do it? 0:33:04.040 --> 0:33:08.280 Who do you want to witness the execution? Psychologically what 0:33:08.440 --> 0:33:10.600 that can do to somebody? And then they lock you 0:33:10.880 --> 0:33:14.920 underneath the jail in a little cold cell and they 0:33:15.040 --> 0:33:17.800 feed you food through the door. But you have you 0:33:17.920 --> 0:33:20.480 have a fifty possibility because you just got a recommendation 0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:22.560 to the governor to keep you alive, So why they 0:33:22.560 --> 0:33:24.800 would put you on death watch to begin with is 0:33:24.840 --> 0:33:27.280 sticking to me and to your point, my son, about 0:33:27.320 --> 0:33:30.360 policies and who makes these rules. That was the warden's decision, 0:33:31.160 --> 0:33:33.800 and the warden is not elected. Then I'm trying to 0:33:33.880 --> 0:33:39.400 understand why we even do the death penalty to begin with, right, 0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:42.960 why is that even still a thing that states that 0:33:43.200 --> 0:33:48.040 people that that systems we we know, we know that 0:33:48.160 --> 0:33:51.600 there are people who have been executed who were innocent, 0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:55.560 and we still do it. We know that there are 0:33:55.720 --> 0:33:58.560 other ways. We have talked about restorative justice in this 0:33:58.800 --> 0:34:03.360 injustice system and and that executing people actually doesn't stop crying. 0:34:04.400 --> 0:34:07.200 So there is a whole entire conversation we need to have. 0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:10.200 And I and I have learned so much and been 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:13.040 challenged so much. I have lost sleep, I've had nightmares. 0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:16.680 I've been praying very hard for Julius. This is not 0:34:16.880 --> 0:34:18.959 weak because we didn't do this ship can I cut start? 0:34:19.120 --> 0:34:23.200 We didn't do this, But the people who made these decisions, 0:34:23.239 --> 0:34:27.000 to your point, my son, are some cruel, sick and 0:34:27.160 --> 0:34:30.800 devilish people. How you can't even do that to me 0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:34.760 is like I don't understand who I don't even understand 0:34:34.760 --> 0:34:37.240 how you're human. I don't get it. I don't understand. 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:41.279 It's torture and it's disgusting, and it happens to our 0:34:41.360 --> 0:34:46.839 people the most. So unbelievable, you asked me, man, I've 0:34:46.880 --> 0:34:50.279 been watching this case, you know, and watching you you know, 0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:52.320 people are real close to me or you know, this 0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:56.000 is one of his close friends, and just see that 0:34:56.239 --> 0:34:59.000 that is taken, you know, and it's not even this 0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:01.759 is not even somebody and I'm physically no, but just 0:35:01.920 --> 0:35:04.399 watching it through y'all and just just having a heart 0:35:04.440 --> 0:35:07.239 as a human being. It's like, damn, this man's life 0:35:08.280 --> 0:35:10.719 is on the verge of being taken for something that 0:35:11.280 --> 0:35:13.799 more than likely, you know, there is evidence that says 0:35:13.880 --> 0:35:17.200 that he didn't do that's right, and since he's been incarcerated, 0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:18.960 so he went to jail when he was nineteen, he's 0:35:19.000 --> 0:35:21.520 forty one. Now at this point, he's been in jail 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:24.880 longer than he's been alive for something that he didn't 0:35:24.880 --> 0:35:28.160 do and wasn't even act. And so to take his 0:35:28.280 --> 0:35:32.040 life that means he lived nineteen years. Because it's like 0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:34.359 we're talking about taking his life in the execution sense, right, 0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:36.960 but to take his life and to lock him up. 0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:40.400 He's been in there since he was nineteen and what 0:35:40.920 --> 0:35:44.640 and so so one. He's been held wrong right like that. 0:35:44.719 --> 0:35:47.200 He wasn't supposed to be in the begin with. His 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:50.000 his future has been taken from him. And if he 0:35:50.200 --> 0:35:53.399 has any small chance of a future after this, which 0:35:53.480 --> 0:35:56.400 is depending on the work that we all do, so quick, uh, 0:35:56.600 --> 0:35:59.520 call to action to folks. We need folks to go 0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:03.080 visit free Julius Jones dot com. That is where folks 0:36:03.160 --> 0:36:05.040 can make phone calls to the people asking how can 0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:06.319 I help how can I help save this black man. 0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:08.759 We need folks to go visit free Julius Jones dot 0:36:08.760 --> 0:36:10.480 com so they can make phone calls not only to 0:36:10.560 --> 0:36:12.880 the governor but to the executive director in that General 0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:15.319 Council that I was talking about. That window was very 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:17.840 very very very small we had between now and Monday. 0:36:17.960 --> 0:36:20.680 And if uh we do win that, or to me, 0:36:20.760 --> 0:36:22.560 if we do not win that and the Attorney General 0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:26.520 wins his case by contesting what the tent circuit did, 0:36:27.239 --> 0:36:31.000 then they will proceed with the execution. M hm. So 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:33.920 this is not like we got all the options are 0:36:33.920 --> 0:36:36.080 still on the table, but the window that we have 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:37.960 is a lot smaller, right, we have between now and 0:36:38.000 --> 0:36:41.239 November eighteen. Now we've got between now and whenever that 0:36:41.280 --> 0:36:43.480 Attorney General response comes back, and we don't know when 0:36:43.520 --> 0:36:47.400 that is that can come out tonight, right um, and 0:36:47.480 --> 0:36:49.360 so we have that smaller window. But I I do 0:36:49.480 --> 0:36:51.520 I want folks to go to free Julius Jones dot com. 0:36:51.760 --> 0:36:54.000 I want folks to follow the grassrootslot project. I want 0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:56.040 to shout out until freedom followed the support the job 0:36:56.080 --> 0:36:58.239 had been doing, both in front of the scenes and 0:36:58.360 --> 0:37:01.040 behind the scenes. Folks don't understan and how we always organized. 0:37:01.080 --> 0:37:03.359 We'll be getting stuff done. But even on your social 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:04.759 media page and the work that y'all have been doing 0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:07.640 a phone called y'all been making have helped make that useful, 0:37:07.719 --> 0:37:10.279 have helped push the envelopes so that the governor can 0:37:10.320 --> 0:37:12.839 pay attention because the thing that we know go ahead. 0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:17.239 It's interesting that you say that because I've sat by, 0:37:17.680 --> 0:37:20.640 and you know, people all why Toneck mallory always have 0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:23.400 something to say, Well, why doesn't So sometimes I just 0:37:23.520 --> 0:37:25.440 sit by and I said, okay, let me just you know, 0:37:26.120 --> 0:37:29.439 play my role, be in the background, do the things, 0:37:29.480 --> 0:37:31.920 find the scenes. But I realized that if I didn't 0:37:31.960 --> 0:37:35.839 say anything on social media and rev up our audience, 0:37:36.000 --> 0:37:38.279 if you will, the people who listen to and support us. 0:37:38.719 --> 0:37:41.000 It would just be days that go by and Julius 0:37:41.000 --> 0:37:44.480 would need to be mentioned other than Class Fools law page. 0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:48.000 You know. Of course, Shaun King has talked about him, um, 0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:52.440 you know several times, and you see some of the 0:37:52.840 --> 0:37:58.080 same people out there advocating. But the folks who claimed 0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:04.200 that we all are uh overwhelming, and we are co opting, 0:38:04.719 --> 0:38:07.560 and we are all of these things, they have not 0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:12.120 done one thing to bring attention to this situation and 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:15.040 to try to fight to save Julius's lives. And the 0:38:15.080 --> 0:38:17.320 reason why they can't do that is because they spend 0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:20.840 so much time focused on trying to tear other people 0:38:20.920 --> 0:38:23.160 down that they're not even they don't have any goal. 0:38:23.239 --> 0:38:28.000 Because to me, Julius Jones is probably one of the 0:38:28.160 --> 0:38:34.040 most important issues of our time right not because friends 0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:36.840 and family that we know have come to us, but no, 0:38:37.080 --> 0:38:40.439 we know the facts, we understand the story, and yet 0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:43.600 there are many days that Julius is not even being 0:38:43.719 --> 0:38:47.200 mentioned by some of these same people who have so 0:38:47.320 --> 0:38:50.279 much to say about us. And I recently saw you 0:38:50.880 --> 0:38:54.239 online saying that one you don't know everything. And two, 0:38:54.360 --> 0:38:57.680 you shouldn't spend your life talking about other people. And 0:38:58.040 --> 0:39:01.319 I know that the work sort of at times, all 0:39:01.560 --> 0:39:05.279 of the energy, the negative energy especially can get you down, 0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:08.560 especially while you're also working with someone who's on death 0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:11.920 row dealing with his family. It's a lie or Rolland 0:39:12.040 --> 0:39:13.880 for those people who don't know, we keep mentioning him, 0:39:13.920 --> 0:39:16.680 but we haven't said or Rolland who is our friend 0:39:16.760 --> 0:39:20.759 who's also um a coach within the n B a 0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:25.440 UM he works very closely in terms of training um 0:39:25.840 --> 0:39:29.560 UH athletes, not just in the NBA, the NFL, and 0:39:29.840 --> 0:39:32.520 he also has a youth organization where he trains young 0:39:32.600 --> 0:39:36.040 people as well. And he's our brother. UM. You know, 0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:38.160 he said to me one day I called and he said, 0:39:38.200 --> 0:39:40.839 in his heart, he believes that julius life is going 0:39:40.920 --> 0:39:43.800 to be saved. And I want to believe that also. 0:39:44.360 --> 0:39:47.480 But if for some reason, this system does not do 0:39:47.680 --> 0:39:51.360 what it is supposed to do, you should just know, Tiffany, 0:39:51.560 --> 0:39:56.239 that the world will acknowledge eventually how hard you went 0:39:56.360 --> 0:40:00.440 for Julius and how much um it became your own story, 0:40:00.640 --> 0:40:02.960 like you know, not just something you're working on, but 0:40:03.120 --> 0:40:06.800 I see you and your own leadership developing and you growing, 0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:08.279 and so I just want to make sure to give 0:40:08.320 --> 0:40:11.239 you your flowers on street politicians and make sure you 0:40:11.360 --> 0:40:14.279 know that you're loved and appreciate it. And that means 0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:16.360 so much to be coming from y'all as people that 0:40:17.320 --> 0:40:20.120 two things that you said, one that means so much 0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:24.279 to me because everybody that we don't know can talk 0:40:24.320 --> 0:40:27.920 about us, but what really matters the people that do 0:40:28.080 --> 0:40:30.360 know us. Yeah, and I also know that if at 0:40:30.360 --> 0:40:32.239 any point I am stepping out of line, which has 0:40:32.280 --> 0:40:35.040 happened before, but the people that love me and the 0:40:35.120 --> 0:40:37.800 people that got my back are the ones that I 0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:39.759 can go to who will tell me the truth. And 0:40:39.840 --> 0:40:42.760 so to even have and this is not to reverence 0:40:42.760 --> 0:40:44.520 you in my son in any different way, right, but 0:40:44.760 --> 0:40:47.320 but to have people that I look up to and 0:40:47.400 --> 0:40:49.759 people who I feel like I've done this work genuinely 0:40:50.440 --> 0:40:52.839 even though they get dragged, even though they get talked about. 0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:55.799 And folks won't always recognize this, but to mecause most 0:40:55.880 --> 0:40:58.879 of the time nine nine percent of the time y'all 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:01.960 get asked to come and do this work. You don't 0:41:01.960 --> 0:41:03.600 just go on everybody's business and show up and say 0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:05.680 I'm gonna help you and save the world people. At 0:41:05.719 --> 0:41:09.000 the same thing for Sean King, people called Sean to say, hey, 0:41:09.040 --> 0:41:11.080 can you help with the Julius Jones case. This wasn't 0:41:11.120 --> 0:41:13.000 him popping up, and I wanted to help. He actually 0:41:13.000 --> 0:41:14.719 tried to avoid it because he knows that people talk 0:41:14.760 --> 0:41:16.719 cracked about him all the time. And I know that 0:41:16.800 --> 0:41:18.880 that struggle as a leader is hard, and so it 0:41:19.440 --> 0:41:23.040 I have been nervous right to say, Okay, well people, 0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:24.840 what the people gonna say, But at the end of 0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:26.400 the day, exactly what you said to me, because it 0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:28.600 doesn't matter what people say. I'm doing God's work. God 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:30.560 asked me to be here. God put me here. I've 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:32.120 been praying since I left the end of a a 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:34.719 CP to do work that really really matter to me. 0:41:35.120 --> 0:41:36.840 And this is the work that really really matters. And 0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:39.200 it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, because anybody else 0:41:39.239 --> 0:41:41.760 gonna fly to Oklahoma and yell at the governor, organize 0:41:41.760 --> 0:41:44.399 a protest. Talked to Julius on the phone, who also 0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:46.560 believes that he will be saved. Julius doesn't believe he's 0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:48.839 going to die. I spoken to Julius. Julius says, listen, 0:41:48.880 --> 0:41:51.480 I believe and I have prayed that I'm going to 0:41:51.520 --> 0:41:53.640 be here, but that this is this is about me, 0:41:53.719 --> 0:41:56.200 and God is using me for a bigger cause. And 0:41:56.520 --> 0:41:59.239 if Julius, if Julius on death brow can say that 0:41:59.360 --> 0:42:01.640 to me, then I have no other choice but to 0:42:01.680 --> 0:42:03.160 do the work. So that means a lot of sense. 0:42:03.200 --> 0:42:07.040 Thank you for my flowers. I love you. That's right, Roses, 0:42:07.200 --> 0:42:11.000 blu care Roses. Well, Tiffany, it was you know, it's 0:42:11.000 --> 0:42:13.560 a pleasure to have you is always a pleasure. Like 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:16.279 she said, the work you're doing is definitely God's work. 0:42:16.280 --> 0:42:18.480 I gotta get you your guard's work hat because you 0:42:18.600 --> 0:42:21.839 gotta wear it, you know. But um, we love you, man, 0:42:21.960 --> 0:42:25.080 continue to fight. We we're praying for Julius. We're fighting 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:28.239 for Julius, and like you said, we believe that God 0:42:28.360 --> 0:42:29.959 is gonna do what he does man, and he would 0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:33.000 definitely be free and he would be back where he's 0:42:33.000 --> 0:42:35.880 supposed to be. Man. So let's just from God's is, 0:42:36.200 --> 0:42:40.360 from our mouth to God's is. Yeah. Man, alright, Peece, Tiffany, 0:42:40.480 --> 0:42:46.920 thank you, keep thank you love you too. So you 0:42:47.000 --> 0:42:50.400 know that interview with Tiffany is really really powerful. But 0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:53.520 we need to bring our next guests on as well, 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:57.239 and so I think we can I really give a 0:42:57.360 --> 0:43:00.600 summation if you will, of both interviews at the end, 0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:02.440 if that's okay with you, because you know, I think 0:43:02.520 --> 0:43:08.919 I'm like part producer of street politicians and we don't 0:43:09.000 --> 0:43:13.040 roll your eyes listen if that's what you want to 0:43:13.080 --> 0:43:15.319 do with Shout out to Tiffany for coming up here 0:43:15.400 --> 0:43:19.520 with the information and just being dope anyway. Yeah. Cool, 0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:22.520 So we'll talk about both interviews after right now, we've 0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:27.680 got our next guests, a friend, another friend another day. 0:43:29.560 --> 0:43:33.759 As usual, we have a great friend joining us today. Uh. 0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:39.520 This is it's a story that I feel extremely connected 0:43:39.600 --> 0:43:43.520 to because I knew uh this young sister before she 0:43:44.280 --> 0:43:47.800 um ended up being incarcerated. Actually we hung out in 0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:49.640 the streets in New York. We was out in the 0:43:49.719 --> 0:43:56.239 street partying and doing it up, yeah, some years ago. 0:43:56.880 --> 0:43:59.880 And um, she has an incredible story. And you know, 0:44:00.080 --> 0:44:04.080 we love to highlight people who have turned their pain, 0:44:04.280 --> 0:44:09.120 their trauma, their tragedies into purpose and passion. Um and 0:44:09.239 --> 0:44:13.120 certainly Topeka Sam has done that. Topeka K Sam to 0:44:13.320 --> 0:44:18.360 be exact, she has certainly turned um a a story 0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:21.600 that some would think, where do you go from here? 0:44:21.760 --> 0:44:25.080 You know, how could we ever even make a comeback 0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:29.680 from um where she's been, But she certainly has. She's 0:44:29.760 --> 0:44:35.480 the founder and CEO of Ladies of Hope Ministries, which 0:44:35.760 --> 0:44:40.759 is a facility that really manages and cares for and 0:44:40.920 --> 0:44:45.040 helps to advocate for and as a re entry program 0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:49.279 for women who are formally incarcerated. UM. And you know, 0:44:49.560 --> 0:44:52.400 there are many people who have found Ladies of Hope 0:44:52.480 --> 0:44:55.719 to be a beacon a light for what we do 0:44:55.880 --> 0:44:59.520 to support women who have been incarcerated. You know, as 0:44:59.560 --> 0:45:01.520 you know, we talk about all the time that that 0:45:01.800 --> 0:45:06.440 is one industry and one area that is under resourced 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:10.359 and in fact, in many places is non existent. But um, 0:45:10.560 --> 0:45:13.439 you know, Topeka Sam has has started a program there, 0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:16.040 and I think we could just go ahead and bring 0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:19.200 our sister on and let her talk about her story. 0:45:19.320 --> 0:45:25.879 So welcome to street politicians, Uh, Topeka k Sam. Hey, y'all, 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:30.040 thank you so much to make a deep Mallory and Lennon. 0:45:30.080 --> 0:45:34.000 I don't know if there's a middle initial, okay, but 0:45:34.120 --> 0:45:38.040 you don't use it, so you just so okay, So 0:45:38.200 --> 0:45:40.880 thank you so much for having me on. I'm super excited. 0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:47.759 Thank you. So let's get into Peka. First of all, 0:45:49.000 --> 0:45:51.759 First of all, you're everywhere, and I think everybody knows 0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:54.319 your story, but they don't write just like folks say, 0:45:54.360 --> 0:45:56.320 I'm everywhere and people think they know my story. And 0:45:56.400 --> 0:45:58.680 it's funny because this morning I got a call from 0:45:58.719 --> 0:46:02.080 an elder who I've known forever. She's from the same 0:46:02.160 --> 0:46:05.360 town that my mom is from, UM in Alabama, and 0:46:05.440 --> 0:46:08.319 she's like, I had no idea that your son's father 0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:10.440 was murdered. And I had no idea. And I'm like, 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:12.440 this lady has been knowing me since I was like 0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:16.440 a young teenager, and yet still she doesn't know these things. 0:46:16.640 --> 0:46:20.160 She said she heard me on Jamal Hills podcast while 0:46:20.360 --> 0:46:22.880 driving late night in the rain, and she said she 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:26.200 asked a young person to direct her to something that 0:46:26.360 --> 0:46:29.279 she could listen to that would, you know, keep her 0:46:29.480 --> 0:46:32.399 going on the ride. And this was just a few 0:46:32.480 --> 0:46:35.680 nights ago, and she said she listened to this podcast 0:46:35.800 --> 0:46:38.759 and heard all of this new information about me. So 0:46:38.920 --> 0:46:41.719 people don't always know your story, even though you think 0:46:41.760 --> 0:46:44.279 that you told it over and over again. So we've 0:46:44.320 --> 0:46:48.160 got to ask you on street politicians to tell your story, UM, 0:46:48.360 --> 0:46:51.799 to make sure that our listeners know and understand who 0:46:51.880 --> 0:46:55.040 you are, where you come from I and from New York. 0:46:56.000 --> 0:46:58.600 You knew that. But I grew up in Long Island 0:46:58.640 --> 0:47:03.600 in Manorville. My parents were franchise business owners. They owned 0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:07.279 a cargo franchise in Brooklyn over twenty something years and 0:47:07.320 --> 0:47:10.800 two restaurants in Hall, and they grew up in Harlem 0:47:10.880 --> 0:47:12.839 and the Bronx. They wanted a different life for us, 0:47:12.960 --> 0:47:15.360 so we were the only black family in our neighborhood. 0:47:15.719 --> 0:47:18.560 We came to the city every weekend where I learned 0:47:18.600 --> 0:47:21.680 how to play piano at um Harlem School the Arts. 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:23.879 So I was there every weekend and then I would 0:47:23.880 --> 0:47:25.880 go to Brooklyn and then come back and then go 0:47:26.080 --> 0:47:28.319 right back out to him. Now, so that was my life, 0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:31.320 me and my brothers. And when it was time for 0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:33.880 me to go to college, obviously that was going to 0:47:33.960 --> 0:47:37.640 be my trajectory. I chose an HPCU because, to be frank, 0:47:38.120 --> 0:47:39.800 you know, I wanted to be around other kids that 0:47:39.840 --> 0:47:41.680 were black and like me, and I wanted to be 0:47:41.760 --> 0:47:44.280 in community with my people because I have been around 0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:47.200 all white people all the time, and though my friends 0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:50.759 and loved them, if I just wanted something different. And 0:47:50.840 --> 0:47:53.520 so I went to Baltimore and with to Morgan State university, 0:47:54.640 --> 0:47:57.680 and I experienced life very differently there. Um it was 0:47:57.719 --> 0:48:00.399 another culture shock because you know, I come from one 0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:03.640 place to another. I get to Baltimore and though super 0:48:03.760 --> 0:48:07.880 excited because now I'm finally in community. Um. You know, 0:48:08.000 --> 0:48:10.480 often I say my swag was a little different, and 0:48:10.640 --> 0:48:12.920 so I was, you know, kind of isolated. I was 0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:14.759 told like, you know, you talked like your wife where 0:48:14.760 --> 0:48:16.560 you think you're better than us, so you're pretty, to 0:48:16.560 --> 0:48:19.600 be dark, skinning, all these things that I never heard before. 0:48:20.360 --> 0:48:23.440 And UM, so through that, you know, I found myself 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:26.200 really just trying to find a sense of connectness, of belonging. 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:28.719 I really wasn't dating before I went to college. My 0:48:28.800 --> 0:48:32.000 father was very strict. UM, and I started dating. I 0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:34.160 started dating guys who were from the city, were from 0:48:34.200 --> 0:48:37.520 the street, and eventually they were guys selling drugs. And 0:48:37.680 --> 0:48:39.480 I thought that I could do it better because I 0:48:39.600 --> 0:48:42.880 thought I was smarter, and I found myself engaged in 0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:47.680 that lifestyle. And this went on for years and through that, UM, 0:48:48.120 --> 0:48:51.359 I was also I'll speed it up to being uh 0:48:51.560 --> 0:48:54.400 maybe thirty five. Around thirty five years old, I was 0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:57.799 division chairperson for Amtrak for New York in d C. UM. 0:48:57.840 --> 0:49:00.680 I had one business that I wanted to open another business, 0:49:00.719 --> 0:49:03.439 and I had stopped being engaged in that lifestyle priorly 0:49:03.440 --> 0:49:06.480 about seven years prior, and I received a phone call 0:49:06.560 --> 0:49:09.840 out of the blue, and UM, I was like, well, damn, 0:49:10.280 --> 0:49:12.279 I can do this real quick. Connect some people make 0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:14.200 this money to start this next business, and I'm out 0:49:14.560 --> 0:49:17.759 this one last run. And that one last run ended 0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.680 up being a federal drug sting operation. And so I 0:49:20.760 --> 0:49:24.840 found myself in Virginia, UM, in a county gym, and 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:27.040 I thought I would bail out, no big deal. It 0:49:27.160 --> 0:49:29.000 was like I said, it was a sting operation. There 0:49:29.040 --> 0:49:33.560 were no drugs. I was added into a superseding indictment. UM, 0:49:34.320 --> 0:49:36.800 I was set up and so that was that, but 0:49:37.239 --> 0:49:39.440 that's not gonna happen. And UM, the judge was like, 0:49:39.600 --> 0:49:41.520 when I thought I was gonna bail out, you know, 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:43.760 you're a drug queen pin and the threat to society, 0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:48.200 No bail. And I began to really understand at that 0:49:48.360 --> 0:49:51.880 point that the legal system, um was very different than 0:49:52.000 --> 0:49:55.480 what I thought prior to that. And so now I'm 0:49:55.520 --> 0:49:59.319 in this county jail in Virginia and I'm like, all right, 0:49:59.360 --> 0:50:01.120 well now I'm gonna here. I'm not gonna bail out. 0:50:01.160 --> 0:50:02.840 I need to begin to become a part of this 0:50:02.920 --> 0:50:09.000 new community I'm a part of. And while they're um selfishly, 0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:12.680 I started going to n A and a A classes 0:50:12.800 --> 0:50:15.160 because I was not able to be out of myself. 0:50:15.160 --> 0:50:18.359 I was separated as a federal detainee and accounty jail, 0:50:18.680 --> 0:50:20.360 and so they had to keep us separated. So I 0:50:20.480 --> 0:50:22.160 was in a cell. The twenty one twenty three, I 0:50:22.239 --> 0:50:24.759 was a day by myself, and so I would go 0:50:24.880 --> 0:50:27.360 out to go to these programs. And so when I 0:50:27.440 --> 0:50:31.240 went to the n A class, I asked the sisters, 0:50:31.320 --> 0:50:32.840 I was like, you know, why did you use drugs? 0:50:33.320 --> 0:50:35.959 Because I had an idea that people use drugs because 0:50:36.000 --> 0:50:38.400 they wanted to. I didn't have anyone in my family 0:50:38.480 --> 0:50:41.440 that struggled with substance mishoes at the time. I did 0:50:41.520 --> 0:50:44.440 not know UM the impacts that it had because I 0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:47.759 wasn't connected in that way and UM. One of the 0:50:47.840 --> 0:50:50.080 sisters told me that her father had been raping her 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:52.320 and gave her heroin and told her to take the 0:50:52.400 --> 0:50:54.440 heroin so the pain would go away. And another young 0:50:54.560 --> 0:50:56.040 lady said that the only time she was able to 0:50:56.080 --> 0:50:58.240 spend time with her mother was when they smoke cracked together, 0:50:58.360 --> 0:51:01.239 and it was all of these difference worries and testimonies. 0:51:01.360 --> 0:51:05.080 And I remember being spiritually convicted. UM I was, I 0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:07.239 was raising the church. I knew who God was, and 0:51:08.080 --> 0:51:10.719 I um said, well, you know what, I'm gonna go 0:51:10.760 --> 0:51:13.239 ahead and plead guilty. And I did, and I went 0:51:13.280 --> 0:51:15.640 to federal prison. How long? How long were you in 0:51:15.760 --> 0:51:19.840 federal prison? I end up spending three years in federal prison. UM. 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:22.279 I was in five different jails, two county jails, three 0:51:22.320 --> 0:51:26.439 federal prisons. UM. I came home in t But while 0:51:26.480 --> 0:51:28.920 I was inside, you know, whether I was in the 0:51:28.960 --> 0:51:32.239 county jail where it was poor black, poor white women, UM, 0:51:32.480 --> 0:51:36.000 you know, low levels of education, no access to any resources. 0:51:36.040 --> 0:51:40.640 When I went to federal prison, it was more like doctors, lawyers, senators, judges, 0:51:40.800 --> 0:51:44.920 women who had you know, high affluence, high levels of education. UM, 0:51:45.000 --> 0:51:47.319 different types of opportunities, but it was still the same 0:51:47.440 --> 0:51:52.560 underlying issues sexual trauma, violence, mental health issues, lack of 0:51:52.640 --> 0:51:56.640 resources and opportunity. And so while I was there, you know, 0:51:56.719 --> 0:51:59.239 God just imparted in my life that I needed to 0:51:59.280 --> 0:52:01.920 start the order with Station and gave me the name 0:52:01.960 --> 0:52:04.360 of the organization and told me what I needed to do, 0:52:04.840 --> 0:52:08.560 and so I came home in and just began to 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:13.200 hit the ground and learn. So you know, I'm always 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:16.759 you know, coming from a different background, Like you said, 0:52:16.880 --> 0:52:20.400 you came from more fluent, you know, a bringing and 0:52:20.520 --> 0:52:22.719 going into prison was it like a real shot because 0:52:22.760 --> 0:52:24.719 I know most people that I talked to that come 0:52:24.800 --> 0:52:28.040 from in fluent background, they just think everybody that's in 0:52:28.160 --> 0:52:31.040 jail supposed to be in jail did worse people in 0:52:31.120 --> 0:52:33.560 the world. They just commit crimes and they don't want 0:52:33.560 --> 0:52:36.360 to hear nothing about it. Where you really like shocked 0:52:36.600 --> 0:52:39.600 to see that these are just everyday people that are 0:52:40.160 --> 0:52:42.279 down on their luck, that had hard time. Some of 0:52:42.320 --> 0:52:44.680 them shouldn't even be here, Like did this is where 0:52:44.719 --> 0:52:47.480 you shocked by what you saw on the system? Absolutely? 0:52:47.680 --> 0:52:50.880 I um to your point. I had the biases. I 0:52:50.920 --> 0:52:52.560 thought it was a certain type of person that went 0:52:52.640 --> 0:52:54.719 to prison, right, a certain type of person that was 0:52:54.800 --> 0:52:57.400 in there. You know, I would watch cops locked up 0:52:57.440 --> 0:52:59.560 abroad and all these things, and you would see a type. 0:53:00.400 --> 0:53:03.440 Um until I became that tight, right, and while I 0:53:03.600 --> 0:53:06.880 was there, and I remember, um, after I was sentence, 0:53:07.080 --> 0:53:09.520 I was on that plane they call it con air, 0:53:09.760 --> 0:53:13.040 the transport plane. And I remember saying to myself, then 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:14.879 the last flight I was on was a first class 0:53:15.080 --> 0:53:18.080 like the Hawaii And here I am now handcuffed and 0:53:18.120 --> 0:53:20.759 shackles um to assister who had never been on a 0:53:20.800 --> 0:53:26.799 plane at all. And that way, mant that was too deep. 0:53:27.480 --> 0:53:30.960 We gotta go back to that. You said, you the 0:53:31.080 --> 0:53:33.600 last time you were on a plane, it was to 0:53:34.160 --> 0:53:37.440 Hawaii first class. You were on vacation or you know, 0:53:37.600 --> 0:53:41.279 going to Vaca, Hawaii. And then this time the next 0:53:41.320 --> 0:53:44.239 time you're on the plane's shackle to a woman who 0:53:44.320 --> 0:53:48.279 had never been on a plane at all. Yeah, m 0:53:48.480 --> 0:53:51.160 hmm it was. And I said in that very moment, 0:53:51.840 --> 0:53:54.200 I said, you know it didn't matter, you know what 0:53:54.880 --> 0:53:58.360 what mode of transportation we go in our lives. That 0:53:58.480 --> 0:54:01.919 we're more connected than we think we are. And though 0:54:02.000 --> 0:54:04.359 I I like, I kept myself away for so long 0:54:04.440 --> 0:54:06.400 because even when I had first got arrested in my 0:54:06.440 --> 0:54:09.040 friends were like, You're not like them, don't talk to them. 0:54:09.520 --> 0:54:11.759 You know, we're gonna do all of that right that 0:54:12.040 --> 0:54:14.080 when I was like, wait a minute, I am them. 0:54:14.600 --> 0:54:17.360 That is me. You know, I just had a different 0:54:17.440 --> 0:54:21.080 level of you know, education or opportunity really afforded by 0:54:21.120 --> 0:54:26.680 my family. UM, but I was no different and it 0:54:26.880 --> 0:54:28.839 really allowed me to connect to people in a very 0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:32.160 different way. Let me ask you this question to go 0:54:32.360 --> 0:54:35.640 backwards because you you and I know you probably are 0:54:35.680 --> 0:54:38.040 so used to telling this story. But again, most people 0:54:38.120 --> 0:54:40.480 don't know. When you say you were a part of 0:54:40.520 --> 0:54:45.480 a sting operation, explained to us what that means. You 0:54:45.719 --> 0:54:50.920 were called by individuals who were agents, like they were already. 0:54:51.200 --> 0:54:55.279 What was the details of that? So what happened was, Um, 0:54:55.440 --> 0:54:57.360 I got called back, Like I said, it was like 0:54:57.400 --> 0:54:59.959 seven years, seven years later because I had stopped something 0:55:00.040 --> 0:55:02.320 drugs for a while. Um, it was a whole situation 0:55:02.440 --> 0:55:04.719 that happened. And that's a whole other story. We don't 0:55:04.719 --> 0:55:07.320 have enough time. But I decided when I got this 0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:10.120 call seven years later because I knew them, it was 0:55:10.680 --> 0:55:14.239 my connect Um. I dealt with them before they were 0:55:14.400 --> 0:55:16.400 you know, Mexican, they were in the cartel and I 0:55:16.520 --> 0:55:18.279 was like, all right, well these are the same people. 0:55:18.320 --> 0:55:20.919 It was never a problem for you know, things are good. 0:55:21.000 --> 0:55:24.880 This is cool. Um. But you know, you know, especially 0:55:24.920 --> 0:55:28.120 when you're connected spiritually, even when you don't realize you are, 0:55:28.239 --> 0:55:31.800 that something just doesn't seem right. But nonetheless, um, I 0:55:31.920 --> 0:55:34.120 end up meeting with them and something I was supposed 0:55:34.120 --> 0:55:36.920 to meet with them originally in Baltimore. I flew out 0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:39.360 to California to have a face to me his conversation, 0:55:39.560 --> 0:55:42.200 and they told me to meet this person in Virginia. 0:55:42.800 --> 0:55:44.279 And I was like, I'm not going to Virginia, Like 0:55:44.280 --> 0:55:45.719 there's no need for me to go to Virginia. And 0:55:45.719 --> 0:55:48.320 I kind of prolonged it, but one of my co 0:55:48.480 --> 0:55:50.439 deferends was like, look, let's just go get this done. 0:55:50.680 --> 0:55:52.640 D da da da da. You know, I'll drive you 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:56.319 out there. So we went and the journey out there 0:55:56.480 --> 0:55:58.560 laughed now because it was like all the signs in 0:55:58.600 --> 0:56:01.480 the world like don't God was like stopped and I 0:56:01.560 --> 0:56:04.440 remember him and I leave it from the city hall um, 0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:07.680 And we left and we're driving down. Usually even when 0:56:07.680 --> 0:56:10.239 I drove down to Baltimore on my own, I would 0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:12.200 just be able to get a straight you know, straight shot, 0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:15.400 short trip, no big deal. But every hour I had 0:56:15.440 --> 0:56:17.600 to go to the battom. So I kept making him 0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:19.719 stop so I can go to the bathroom. And I 0:56:19.840 --> 0:56:21.960 was like, something isn't right. My spirit was like it's 0:56:22.000 --> 0:56:24.680 not right. We keep I fall asleep, I wake up 0:56:24.719 --> 0:56:27.600 to some smoke and I'm like, what's going on. We 0:56:27.719 --> 0:56:30.840 pull over and find some kind of like shop auto shop, 0:56:31.000 --> 0:56:33.480 and the guy said that the transmission was and I 0:56:33.560 --> 0:56:35.920 said to him, this is a sign we need to 0:56:36.040 --> 0:56:37.839 turn around, and he like, no, this is a sign. 0:56:37.880 --> 0:56:39.640 It's like we just suit me to Scar need to 0:56:39.680 --> 0:56:42.319 give me my money back. Well I'm like all right. 0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:45.920 So then I'm like something is it right? Then we 0:56:46.120 --> 0:56:49.160 end up going to um rent a car right across 0:56:49.200 --> 0:56:51.400 the street from the place, and we get there to 0:56:51.480 --> 0:56:54.520 where we're supposed to meet these people. Now, the person 0:56:54.600 --> 0:56:57.200 that we were supposed to meet wasn't there. Some other 0:56:57.320 --> 0:57:00.400 person came up and let me take you back. So 0:57:00.560 --> 0:57:03.440 before that, this homeboy of mine, he was like, yo, 0:57:03.600 --> 0:57:05.680 you need to go see these like you know, he's 0:57:05.680 --> 0:57:07.800 saying a low us. You know, the Spanish people that 0:57:07.880 --> 0:57:10.200 tell you about all of that. Now, I was Christian 0:57:10.400 --> 0:57:13.800 and I knew at the time, but I decided to 0:57:13.920 --> 0:57:16.680 do what he said. And the guy who I spoke 0:57:16.720 --> 0:57:19.320 to told me that because I asked about this situation 0:57:19.320 --> 0:57:21.040 because I have been out for so long, so I 0:57:21.160 --> 0:57:23.000 was asking me. He's like, no, everybody around you is good, 0:57:23.040 --> 0:57:25.680 but if you go to a table and meet somebody 0:57:25.920 --> 0:57:28.200 with a New York Baseball cap on one, that's the 0:57:28.280 --> 0:57:32.360 police leave. Do you know When I got to that 0:57:32.480 --> 0:57:35.040 restaurant and that man walked in, it was a man 0:57:35.160 --> 0:57:38.000 with a New York baseball cap. He sat down at 0:57:38.040 --> 0:57:41.720 the table. I literally got anauseous. I got up, I 0:57:41.840 --> 0:57:44.280 went to the bathroom. I had like three cell phones, 0:57:44.360 --> 0:57:47.040 like throwing the chips out, clear the things in the bathroom. 0:57:47.080 --> 0:57:49.520 I come back to the table and I told my homeboy, 0:57:49.640 --> 0:57:53.560 let's go. We walk out. As soon as we walk out, 0:57:53.600 --> 0:57:55.640 and it's probably about twenty cops that just swarmed us, 0:57:55.680 --> 0:57:56.920 told us to get on the ground and all that, 0:57:57.000 --> 0:57:58.360 and I just kind of looked up and was like 0:57:58.440 --> 0:58:01.080 to see, like I knew this right. So then I 0:58:01.200 --> 0:58:03.880 get there. They take us to this little place and 0:58:03.960 --> 0:58:06.880 they separate us in these two little rooms and we're 0:58:06.920 --> 0:58:10.200 there and then the fact he comes over and he's like, 0:58:11.080 --> 0:58:12.760 you know, such as such wants to talk to you. 0:58:13.600 --> 0:58:15.600 So of course red flag goes up, and I'm like, 0:58:15.840 --> 0:58:17.440 they don't let you talk to each other, So like 0:58:17.520 --> 0:58:21.240 what are they trying to do? You know? And he's like, um, yo, 0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:24.360 tell them what they want to know, and I'm like, 0:58:24.680 --> 0:58:26.040 you need to get a little He's like, yo, that's 0:58:26.080 --> 0:58:27.560 your connect. I don't even know what them people, but 0:58:27.680 --> 0:58:29.320 I was like, listen, you need to get a lawyer. 0:58:29.400 --> 0:58:32.840 I'm gonna do the same, and I just completely shut down. 0:58:34.160 --> 0:58:37.680 We get to the county jail and I remember being, 0:58:37.800 --> 0:58:39.280 you know, they put you in this little whole thing 0:58:39.320 --> 0:58:41.440 south and the women, and with the women of course 0:58:41.440 --> 0:58:44.720 the men with the men. So we're starting, we're starting 0:58:44.760 --> 0:58:46.919 to make me have an opportunity to make our phone calls. 0:58:47.000 --> 0:58:50.240 And he goes out to the pay phone and I'm 0:58:50.280 --> 0:58:54.040 just sitting down and the young girl, she's probably like eighteen, 0:58:55.320 --> 0:58:59.920 she says to me, yo, that's your cody. And I look. 0:59:00.200 --> 0:59:04.680 She's like, girl, you finished. And I laughed because he 0:59:04.840 --> 0:59:08.680 was at the pay phone. That dude, like she could 0:59:08.760 --> 0:59:11.960 hear him, but he was sick something, tall, big dude 0:59:12.040 --> 0:59:14.840 and he's sitting on a pay phone prime So she 0:59:15.080 --> 0:59:19.800 sh that and she was like, your finnis right, like girl, 0:59:20.000 --> 0:59:22.080 you know, you know, and she could hear him talking 0:59:22.240 --> 0:59:25.160 to whoever he was talking to Ottabla, and so yeah, 0:59:25.240 --> 0:59:27.960 that's what happened. So that's part of that. It's how 0:59:28.040 --> 0:59:30.840 I got to that place. But the thing is when 0:59:31.120 --> 0:59:34.200 you know they set you up, so a conspiracy, which 0:59:34.240 --> 0:59:37.400 is what it was. Um, it's one it has to 0:59:37.480 --> 0:59:40.200 be one or two, two or more people having to 0:59:40.280 --> 0:59:45.480 talk about this thing, right. But because it wasn't considered 0:59:45.680 --> 0:59:49.120 entrapments though it was, um, they put it in the 0:59:49.200 --> 0:59:51.720 fourth circuit, which is in the federal prison in the 0:59:51.800 --> 0:59:55.520 federal government. Fourth circuit is like Virginia, Maryland, that area, 0:59:55.840 --> 0:59:58.680 which is one of the harshest circuits. Um. The reason 0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:02.160 why it was really juris channel entrapments because had my 1:00:02.280 --> 1:00:04.680 case been out of Baltimore, likely I wouldn't have gotten 1:00:04.680 --> 1:00:08.200 anye jail time because there were no drugs in the case. Um. 1:00:08.320 --> 1:00:10.560 But because they did it in Virginia, they did it 1:00:10.680 --> 1:00:13.800 purposely because they knew in Virginia I would definitely be 1:00:13.920 --> 1:00:19.520 prosecuted in Richmond, Virginia. Well, damn, that's crazy. So what 1:00:19.640 --> 1:00:21.400 did your parents have to say? But how did your 1:00:21.440 --> 1:00:27.240 family feel? Well? When I was in of course during arrayment, Well, 1:00:27.280 --> 1:00:30.280 when I called everybody and they came down and you know, 1:00:30.600 --> 1:00:33.240 bring deeds to houses and money and whatever to bail 1:00:33.280 --> 1:00:35.840 me out, you know, of course everybody was shocked. All 1:00:35.920 --> 1:00:38.360 my friends, all my family. They had no idea what 1:00:38.440 --> 1:00:41.680 I was doing. I mean I had like living different lifestyles. 1:00:41.960 --> 1:00:44.400 I had my work life, I had my my friends 1:00:44.440 --> 1:00:47.960 from college life, I had this street life. And you know, 1:00:48.000 --> 1:00:52.040 I didn't realize how separate I kept everything until it 1:00:52.160 --> 1:00:54.800 was sentencing day and some of my friends that I 1:00:54.880 --> 1:00:57.680 had known for twenty years never met. My parents didn't 1:00:57.680 --> 1:01:01.280 know I had brothers. Um like, new nothing about me personally, 1:01:01.400 --> 1:01:04.800 yet I knew everything about everyone else. So they were 1:01:05.000 --> 1:01:08.720 very shocked, of course disappointed. Um Like, you know, my 1:01:08.800 --> 1:01:11.720 mother remember when they had to do the PSR, which 1:01:11.760 --> 1:01:14.080 is a pre sentence report where they call and ask 1:01:14.120 --> 1:01:16.600 about you and your family. They asked my mother if 1:01:16.640 --> 1:01:19.080 I was on drugs, and my mother said, if she was, 1:01:19.240 --> 1:01:24.440 I would understand. Wow wow wow wow. Well, I mean, 1:01:24.560 --> 1:01:27.160 I know, reliving all of that is not what you 1:01:27.600 --> 1:01:30.320 probably were expecting today because you have so much more 1:01:30.920 --> 1:01:33.280 um that we can with that we will cover. But 1:01:33.960 --> 1:01:37.200 I think it's just important for people to understand how 1:01:37.480 --> 1:01:41.560 you can get wrapped up so quickly in these situations. 1:01:41.800 --> 1:01:44.600 And you know, you say, seven years you you try 1:01:44.640 --> 1:01:48.920 to change your life. God gave you new opportunities, you know, 1:01:49.200 --> 1:01:52.680 new spaces and places, but sometimes we think we can 1:01:52.800 --> 1:01:56.120 slide backwards and then look, you know, look, look what 1:01:56.320 --> 1:02:01.240 happens because at that point, great, Yeah. So I tell 1:02:01.280 --> 1:02:03.520 people all the time. I remember when I was in 1:02:03.560 --> 1:02:06.800 the streets and I had one out of town, A 1:02:07.080 --> 1:02:10.600 lady pulled me to the side, never forget it. And 1:02:10.640 --> 1:02:14.200 I was out of town, hustler and it was in Charlottesville, 1:02:14.800 --> 1:02:17.960 m And the lady pulled me to the side and said, 1:02:18.000 --> 1:02:20.680 what are you doing here? And I said what she said, 1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:23.520 get out of here now, you don't belong here. I 1:02:23.800 --> 1:02:25.840 never went back. That's the last day of hustle in 1:02:25.920 --> 1:02:28.960 my life. I followed the signs and everybody that I 1:02:29.080 --> 1:02:31.520 know out there. Two of my friends got killed out there, 1:02:31.800 --> 1:02:35.240 and one of them in serving life in that same town. 1:02:35.960 --> 1:02:39.840 Jesus always followed signs. Man, So how did what? What 1:02:40.000 --> 1:02:42.840 was the process for you coming home? So I was 1:02:42.920 --> 1:02:46.120 originally sentenced to a hundred and thirty months, so that's 1:02:46.160 --> 1:02:48.640 ten years ten months because it was a mandatory minium. 1:02:48.720 --> 1:02:52.439 In my case, I was convicted of conspiracy to south 1:02:52.480 --> 1:02:56.360 as a cocaine or more. Because that was the conversation. 1:02:56.400 --> 1:02:59.080 And again when you talk about conspiracy, like you know, 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:03.640 real real talk. It was I was going to purchase 1:03:03.720 --> 1:03:06.080 fifty key loads and they were like, oh, well, we'll 1:03:06.120 --> 1:03:08.400 give you thirty more key loads, you know, basically on 1:03:08.520 --> 1:03:11.800 the on the hook, right, so with no money. So 1:03:12.000 --> 1:03:14.720 obviously if a person is like, we're gonna give you 1:03:14.800 --> 1:03:17.600 more for no money, if you're gonna take it right 1:03:17.640 --> 1:03:19.840 a wrong. But all that was was them to do 1:03:20.040 --> 1:03:23.600 it in order for them to get the mandatory minimum 1:03:23.680 --> 1:03:26.360 up right. So that's why they did that, in order 1:03:26.400 --> 1:03:28.880 to get me in a different sentence in category. So 1:03:29.040 --> 1:03:31.760 you know, you learn about all these things afterwards, but 1:03:31.880 --> 1:03:35.480 that's what it was. So when I was pleading guilty, 1:03:35.520 --> 1:03:37.560 I left my plea open so that I could appeal 1:03:37.600 --> 1:03:41.480 in my case with a downward archer, which is called 1:03:41.480 --> 1:03:44.160 the safety valve. And in the safety valve, it's five 1:03:44.240 --> 1:03:46.960 different criterias that you have to meet, like you can't 1:03:46.960 --> 1:03:50.040 have a criminal category under one, you have to fully 1:03:50.120 --> 1:03:53.840 tell the truth about yourself, um, and it's the three 1:03:53.920 --> 1:03:57.680 other things involved. But after that, I requested it downward 1:03:57.720 --> 1:04:02.080 departure at sentencing. Obviously, they denied my downward departure, which 1:04:02.160 --> 1:04:05.440 is why I ended up getting the one thirty. Fast 1:04:05.520 --> 1:04:08.760 forward about a year later, I'm in federal prison and 1:04:08.960 --> 1:04:11.680 I'm you know, telling my lawyer like, listen, I want 1:04:11.760 --> 1:04:14.680 us to appeal, Like there has to be a way 1:04:14.720 --> 1:04:16.680 that we can do this. I remember reading the law, 1:04:16.840 --> 1:04:18.640 going to law library and all that. It was a 1:04:18.720 --> 1:04:23.000 motion called thirty two, which is a motion for a sentence. Uh, 1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:26.800 it's called imposition of sentence. So through the booker variants, 1:04:27.080 --> 1:04:30.560 which allows them to take into consideration like other things, 1:04:30.800 --> 1:04:33.720 your your history, you know where you're your upbringing, you 1:04:33.760 --> 1:04:36.440 know any family, all these things. Um, you can put 1:04:36.480 --> 1:04:39.640 an emotion to do that. So I prayed, was fast 1:04:39.640 --> 1:04:42.160 thing doing all these things, and I wrote the letter 1:04:42.240 --> 1:04:45.280 to the judge and the lawyer put in the motion, 1:04:46.000 --> 1:04:50.400 and on March fiveteen, which is the day before my birthday, 1:04:50.680 --> 1:04:52.800 I got a call the offense and I was told 1:04:52.840 --> 1:04:55.479 that my sentence was reduced from a hundred and thirty 1:04:55.560 --> 1:04:59.680 months to sixty five months. At that time, I qualified 1:04:59.720 --> 1:05:02.560 for all what's what they call a drug program, and 1:05:02.640 --> 1:05:04.840 it's our DAP, And our DAP was the only program 1:05:04.920 --> 1:05:06.800 in the federal sy that you can take to give 1:05:06.840 --> 1:05:09.520 you a year off your sentence. Now I didn't know, 1:05:09.720 --> 1:05:11.440 you know, again, by the grace of God, because I 1:05:11.480 --> 1:05:14.200 didn't have any drug history, but I didn't know how 1:05:14.240 --> 1:05:16.240 I qualified. But when they told me that I would 1:05:16.280 --> 1:05:17.800 get a year off, I was like, signed me up, 1:05:17.840 --> 1:05:21.200 send me anywhere, and they end up sending me to Greenville, Illinois. 1:05:22.080 --> 1:05:24.400 So I took that program, and at that time a 1:05:24.480 --> 1:05:28.600 law passed called all Drugs all Drugs minus two and 1:05:28.760 --> 1:05:31.240 with that, I end up getting another fifteen months off 1:05:31.320 --> 1:05:34.080 my sentence. So I end up getting called into the 1:05:34.120 --> 1:05:35.960 office and reading the Illinois and I was told I 1:05:36.040 --> 1:05:39.520 was going home in two weeks, and that's how it happened. 1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:42.800 I end up being released. UM and I knew at 1:05:42.840 --> 1:05:44.680 that point. I said, God has something greater for me, 1:05:45.360 --> 1:05:48.640 like right, and I was like, I know this is 1:05:48.680 --> 1:05:51.160 what it is, So let me follow and let me 1:05:51.200 --> 1:05:53.280 be obedient. Let me do everything that God said for 1:05:53.360 --> 1:05:56.000 me to do. And that's exactly what I've done. And 1:05:56.160 --> 1:05:59.680 so I mean, I watched you when you came home. 1:06:00.120 --> 1:06:03.440 You really didn't have the program yet, but you were 1:06:03.560 --> 1:06:08.960 working to um, get secure housing, to secure build then 1:06:09.200 --> 1:06:13.720 if you will, you could have Ladies of Hope ministries 1:06:13.960 --> 1:06:17.480 operate from You got right in and started trying to, 1:06:17.840 --> 1:06:19.920 you know, figure out how to make it work. And 1:06:20.080 --> 1:06:21.920 you know, I think the thing that's interesting. We say 1:06:21.920 --> 1:06:24.520 it all the time, but it definitely um needs to 1:06:24.600 --> 1:06:27.320 be stated in this case that we have the skill 1:06:27.400 --> 1:06:29.760 set even when we use it for things that are 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:33.080 not good, it's really about taking those same skills and 1:06:33.160 --> 1:06:36.400 applying it to things that are actually positive. We can 1:06:36.480 --> 1:06:39.000 make big things happen. I look at Jamil T. Davis, 1:06:39.040 --> 1:06:42.400 who you know, UM and worked with, and just looking 1:06:42.440 --> 1:06:46.800 at how innovative Jamilla is and how she's able to 1:06:47.480 --> 1:06:51.280 help so many of other people, UM, you know, make 1:06:51.440 --> 1:06:54.520 money and and and and figure out ways to be 1:06:54.760 --> 1:06:58.080 innovative in terms of their ideas, things they want to do. 1:06:58.200 --> 1:07:01.400 So this is these are these are things that it's 1:07:01.440 --> 1:07:04.240 not even Jamilla's wheelhouse, but she still can get in 1:07:04.400 --> 1:07:07.160 and help you figure out how to make things happen 1:07:07.440 --> 1:07:09.680 because that's the type of brain that she has. She 1:07:09.840 --> 1:07:12.000 just didn't know that it needed to be used for 1:07:12.080 --> 1:07:15.360 the right reasons. And also the type of people around us, 1:07:15.440 --> 1:07:19.080 the company we keep because our company tells us to 1:07:19.280 --> 1:07:22.439 do this or that, and sometimes we follow and don't 1:07:22.520 --> 1:07:25.880 realize that God has his own plan for our lives. 1:07:26.280 --> 1:07:29.160 So Ladies of Hope Ministries is your plan. But you 1:07:29.360 --> 1:07:31.880 had to go through all of these things to end 1:07:32.000 --> 1:07:34.280 up in this place. And I feel like that in 1:07:34.400 --> 1:07:37.000 my own life, I've had to go through such pain 1:07:37.360 --> 1:07:40.600 and trauma in order to end up in the place 1:07:40.680 --> 1:07:43.040 where I am today. And so I'm proud of you 1:07:43.240 --> 1:07:45.920 first of all, because I know the story and have 1:07:46.120 --> 1:07:48.960 watched you hustling. You didn't take no for an answer. 1:07:49.040 --> 1:07:51.920 People try to shut you down, shut you out, and 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:55.560 you kept pushing. So tell us now, Ladies of Hope, 1:07:55.600 --> 1:07:57.720 tell us what it is and where are you trying 1:07:57.800 --> 1:08:00.280 to take it? How can we all help to get 1:08:00.360 --> 1:08:03.640 it there? Absolutely well, thank you so much, um So, 1:08:03.800 --> 1:08:06.400 Ladies of Hope Ministries mission, we say it's epic to 1:08:06.600 --> 1:08:10.080 end poverty and incarceration of women and girls globally, and 1:08:10.360 --> 1:08:13.480 we do that through two buckets. That's direct service and 1:08:13.520 --> 1:08:16.920 sustainability and policy and advocacy. What we know is we 1:08:17.000 --> 1:08:20.160 can't change laws, We can't change you know, conditions for 1:08:20.280 --> 1:08:23.120 people until our basic human rights are met, which is 1:08:23.160 --> 1:08:27.759 saint housing, equitable opportunity for career UM and also food, 1:08:27.840 --> 1:08:30.640 healthy food. And so we do Hope House, which is 1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:33.040 our first level of safe housing for women and girls 1:08:33.479 --> 1:08:36.519 UM impacted by any type of state violence. So we've 1:08:36.600 --> 1:08:39.840 expanded from not just women who have been impacted by incarceration, 1:08:40.160 --> 1:08:42.880 but women who have been impacted by any type of violence. 1:08:43.200 --> 1:08:44.680 And so we have a house in the Bronx, we 1:08:44.800 --> 1:08:47.160 have one in New Orleans, and we're developing our first 1:08:47.479 --> 1:08:50.760 twenty unit apartment building in Miami and South Florida for 1:08:50.840 --> 1:08:53.639 women and girls over women over the age of fifty 1:08:53.720 --> 1:08:57.160 five who are returning into South Florida because the numbers 1:08:57.200 --> 1:08:59.720 in Florida are crazy and we're gonna be scaling that 1:09:00.040 --> 1:09:02.679 right now. We're working in seven different cities to provide 1:09:02.720 --> 1:09:06.600 housing and build affordable housing developments and the Caribbean Trinidad 1:09:06.720 --> 1:09:09.679 specifically right now. Then we have our Angel Food Project, 1:09:09.840 --> 1:09:13.000 which partners with insta card, Whole Foods and other supermarkets 1:09:13.040 --> 1:09:15.880 where we give our fresh bags of food seven days 1:09:15.920 --> 1:09:18.280 a week, three d and sixty five days. We've been 1:09:18.320 --> 1:09:21.559 doing that for over five years now, every since I've 1:09:21.560 --> 1:09:23.880 been home, I've been doing that. Before I started LAUM 1:09:24.000 --> 1:09:27.759 became a program of that UM. Our Pathways for Equity 1:09:27.840 --> 1:09:31.880 program is a partnership with Virgin Unite where we partner 1:09:31.960 --> 1:09:36.559 with corporations to give growth focused positions to women who 1:09:36.600 --> 1:09:40.679 are impacted by these systems in corporate America. UM changing 1:09:40.760 --> 1:09:44.759 with diversity inclusion looks like not just race, religion, gender identity, 1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:47.960 but also lived experience. And so we partnered with you know, 1:09:48.080 --> 1:09:51.679 people from Chanel to now Virgin Orbit, which is super 1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:54.360 exciting because we can provide jobs for women UM in 1:09:54.439 --> 1:09:57.519 aerospace and so that's really really a great again, a 1:09:57.600 --> 1:10:01.000 great career path. And then on our policy advocacy work, 1:10:01.080 --> 1:10:03.160 we have our Faces and Women in Prison program, which 1:10:03.240 --> 1:10:05.400 is a global Speakers Bureau where we're trained over fifty 1:10:05.479 --> 1:10:07.800 women UM on how to use their voice in order 1:10:07.840 --> 1:10:10.840 to share their experiences to change policy but also become 1:10:10.880 --> 1:10:15.360 public speakers. Has paid public speakers because so often we're 1:10:15.400 --> 1:10:18.680 asked to share our stories, but we're not actually compensated 1:10:18.760 --> 1:10:21.639 for it. And so to your point earlier, we relive 1:10:21.760 --> 1:10:25.080 this trauma UM all the time and they're not giving anything. 1:10:25.160 --> 1:10:28.640 But you know, someone crying and you know, thank you 1:10:28.880 --> 1:10:31.920 for your story. But then it doesn't you know, equal anything, 1:10:32.040 --> 1:10:35.240 and people have childcare and taken over work UM and 1:10:35.400 --> 1:10:37.479 they need to be compensated. They are an expert in 1:10:37.520 --> 1:10:40.240 the space, and so that's what we've done. That program 1:10:40.560 --> 1:10:44.439 UM is also fund to by Chanelle, our for Justice 1:10:44.760 --> 1:10:48.040 for Foundation and the NFL. And then we have our 1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:52.000 Epic Ambassadors work, which is our policy and advocacy where 1:10:52.080 --> 1:10:54.240 we trained women on how to draft and right legislation, 1:10:54.680 --> 1:10:58.040 partner with local elected officials to get bills moved, and 1:10:58.080 --> 1:11:00.920 then get them registered as lobbyists in their estate. And 1:11:01.080 --> 1:11:03.640 so we're super excited about that because we feel that 1:11:04.120 --> 1:11:06.240 if you live the particular experience, you need to leave 1:11:06.240 --> 1:11:09.200 the policies to change that. We know what needs to happen. 1:11:09.280 --> 1:11:11.519 And again, you know, for me doing work around the 1:11:11.600 --> 1:11:15.040 country passing legislation, what I learned there's a lot of 1:11:15.080 --> 1:11:17.480 times they have people going to what they call legislative 1:11:17.479 --> 1:11:20.920 advocacy days and again taking off of work, not getting paid. 1:11:21.080 --> 1:11:23.240 But you know, as a consultant on a lot of projects, 1:11:23.320 --> 1:11:26.720 I also saw where we were retaining lobby firms so 1:11:26.840 --> 1:11:30.000 tan twenty dollars a month, and then that's not actually 1:11:30.040 --> 1:11:32.439 going to the people who are actually doing the lobby 1:11:33.040 --> 1:11:35.240 and so I said, well, there's an opportunity there. How 1:11:35.280 --> 1:11:38.240 do we actually get people registered as lobbyists in order 1:11:38.280 --> 1:11:40.600 for them to get paid as lobbyists to do the 1:11:40.680 --> 1:11:43.800 work that they were doing for free. As lobbyists. UM so, 1:11:44.040 --> 1:11:46.519 that's really exciting because now we're building this community of 1:11:46.560 --> 1:11:49.000 women and girls from around the country that are doing 1:11:49.080 --> 1:11:52.280 that work. Um so. And then our last program is 1:11:52.320 --> 1:11:55.519 our health equity work where we just recently partnered with 1:11:55.600 --> 1:11:58.800 optim and train fifty women to be birth douelers UM 1:11:58.880 --> 1:12:01.080 to go into prisons the help women who are pregnant, 1:12:01.120 --> 1:12:04.280 but also in community for women who cannot afford um 1:12:04.360 --> 1:12:06.880 a doula but would like one as an alternative to 1:12:07.200 --> 1:12:10.240 you know, maternal support. And now, so that's the work 1:12:10.280 --> 1:12:12.680 that we do. UM Like I said, right now we're 1:12:12.720 --> 1:12:15.760 stilling to seven different cities in the Caribbean, so you know, 1:12:15.920 --> 1:12:19.720 support from you know, the community like they look like us. 1:12:20.080 --> 1:12:22.280 I mean, you know, to be frank, most of our 1:12:22.360 --> 1:12:26.960 funding come from you know, philanthropy, large philanthropists, corporate dollars, 1:12:27.360 --> 1:12:31.040 but mostly white. And you know when it's so disheartening 1:12:31.120 --> 1:12:35.360 to me is that incarceration and poverty disproportionately impacts people 1:12:35.400 --> 1:12:38.240 and communities of color. Yet we don't actually invest in 1:12:38.320 --> 1:12:41.080 the change in our own community. And so for me, 1:12:41.439 --> 1:12:43.439 you know, to be able to really connect to people 1:12:43.680 --> 1:12:48.800 that UM have the ability to push right our work 1:12:48.880 --> 1:12:51.840 to see opportunities for women and girls to change the 1:12:51.960 --> 1:12:55.160 outcomes for our families is critical and I really would 1:12:55.160 --> 1:12:57.479 like to see more support from people of color in that. 1:12:58.960 --> 1:13:00.840 So tell us, tell us where we can find you, 1:13:00.920 --> 1:13:04.439 as he can, tell us your website, all your social 1:13:04.520 --> 1:13:07.320 media's where people can invest because I hate the word donate. 1:13:07.760 --> 1:13:09.920 Invest in what you're doing, because what you're doing is 1:13:10.000 --> 1:13:12.639 something that people need to invest in, especially our people. 1:13:12.960 --> 1:13:15.439 We need to see it as mandatory. You know, I 1:13:15.520 --> 1:13:18.720 hate that. You know that people have expertise and come 1:13:18.840 --> 1:13:22.320 with this this will and this energy to do good 1:13:22.400 --> 1:13:24.519 things for our community, and we don't support it. So 1:13:24.600 --> 1:13:26.360 I just wanted to let everybody know how they can 1:13:26.400 --> 1:13:27.960 do that for you. Thank you so much. So the 1:13:28.040 --> 1:13:31.360 website is the th h E l o h M 1:13:31.880 --> 1:13:35.599 dot org so for the ladys, the whole ministryes dot 1:13:35.680 --> 1:13:39.519 org um we're on all social media platforms as at 1:13:39.760 --> 1:13:42.840 the l o h M. My social media platforms are 1:13:42.920 --> 1:13:46.360 at Topeka k sam um and then you know, for 1:13:46.600 --> 1:13:48.960 us and to your point, also my song like for me. 1:13:49.720 --> 1:13:52.000 You know what I realized most recently was, you know, 1:13:52.040 --> 1:13:55.719 I created a great nonprofit organization that is doing incredible 1:13:55.760 --> 1:14:00.200 work in four years. Right, Um, we've grown tremendously. We've 1:14:00.240 --> 1:14:02.080 been able to do things that people haven't been able 1:14:02.120 --> 1:14:05.360 to do as a nonprofit for twenty years. But while 1:14:05.439 --> 1:14:08.679 I I realized that I was here touting about equity, 1:14:09.040 --> 1:14:12.320 that I wasn't even creating equity for myself. That when 1:14:12.520 --> 1:14:15.920 as a nonprofit, you know founder that at any time, 1:14:16.320 --> 1:14:18.600 if my board or someone decides that I need not 1:14:18.760 --> 1:14:21.400 to be in this seat, that then they can say 1:14:21.439 --> 1:14:23.360 to pick up you know, thank you for your service. 1:14:23.439 --> 1:14:26.240 And that's it. And I have no legacy for my family. 1:14:26.600 --> 1:14:29.080 You know, I cannot create general generational wealth for my 1:14:29.200 --> 1:14:31.599 family for my sixth niece and it's the nephew using 1:14:31.680 --> 1:14:34.120 for my godchildren and all of that. And so what 1:14:34.240 --> 1:14:36.560 I decided to do was to start to launch, you know, 1:14:36.720 --> 1:14:39.880 for profit companies that actually help in order for me 1:14:40.000 --> 1:14:42.200 to build that well that will then I'll be able 1:14:42.240 --> 1:14:44.120 to fund my own nonprofit and be able to one 1:14:44.200 --> 1:14:46.120 day write my own five million dollar check to my 1:14:46.200 --> 1:14:49.920 own organization in order for sustainability. So with that, I 1:14:50.040 --> 1:14:54.679 started Epic Financial, which is gonna be launched fully in January, 1:14:54.760 --> 1:14:57.760 first quarter of next year, and that's a fintech platform 1:14:57.920 --> 1:15:01.280 that will actually give checking savings a counts to people 1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:04.360 who are presently incarcerated with financial literacy so when they 1:15:04.439 --> 1:15:07.519 get out, they actually have an account set up and 1:15:07.600 --> 1:15:09.680 don't have to worry about the barriers and banking and 1:15:09.720 --> 1:15:12.839 the barriers of all those things. UM, so super excited 1:15:12.880 --> 1:15:15.160 about that as well. And then you know, really partnering 1:15:15.200 --> 1:15:17.680 with not a lot of other non profits and other 1:15:17.840 --> 1:15:20.640 organizations for them to also get their community embedded in 1:15:20.720 --> 1:15:23.719 the platform that will also help to support our people, 1:15:24.200 --> 1:15:27.880 um in community. So well, that's the things, but that's 1:15:27.920 --> 1:15:30.240 the work. That's the work. Man. We really appreciate you. 1:15:30.439 --> 1:15:32.400 We we know that we're taking up a lot of 1:15:32.439 --> 1:15:34.920 your time, and we truly appreciate you. You know, the 1:15:35.000 --> 1:15:37.759 work that you do. You know, we we do work together. 1:15:38.000 --> 1:15:40.280 You know, we always see each other and we were 1:15:40.320 --> 1:15:42.400 always rooting for you man, continue to do the work. 1:15:42.479 --> 1:15:46.000 Me being formally incarcerated and always inspired just seeing the 1:15:46.080 --> 1:15:47.960 work that you do, you know, it gives me a 1:15:48.040 --> 1:15:50.559 little extra energy knowing that you know, we can come 1:15:50.640 --> 1:15:52.560 from wherever we come from and go through whatever we 1:15:52.640 --> 1:15:55.360 go through and still be successful and make sure that 1:15:55.439 --> 1:15:58.080 we pay it forward so that somebody's coming from where 1:15:58.120 --> 1:16:01.760 we come from, don't have to go through We went through. Sure, sure, 1:16:01.880 --> 1:16:03.559 thank you. I mean, I don't think there's much more 1:16:03.600 --> 1:16:05.599 than needs to be said. I'm happy that you came 1:16:05.680 --> 1:16:10.240 on today. Um. You know Cat Trigg, our director extraordinaire, 1:16:11.000 --> 1:16:16.080 really he loves Sopeica loves Topeka, and she kept saying hey, 1:16:16.240 --> 1:16:20.160 and we were like, yep, no, absolutely, let's get you on. 1:16:20.840 --> 1:16:23.200 Thank you for coming, and thank you for telling your 1:16:23.280 --> 1:16:27.479 story and digging into those deep places because you know, 1:16:27.600 --> 1:16:30.000 certainly when we talk about our trauma, it's not easy. 1:16:30.240 --> 1:16:32.000 You know, it's it's a lot of people kind of 1:16:32.040 --> 1:16:34.400 think it's just like a normal day, but it's not, 1:16:34.600 --> 1:16:37.439 because it brings up memories that come into your mind 1:16:37.880 --> 1:16:40.719 that are not good memories, you know. But um, telling 1:16:40.760 --> 1:16:43.360 your story will help someone else, hopefully a younger person 1:16:43.520 --> 1:16:46.320 or even a personal older person who's going through the 1:16:46.400 --> 1:16:48.799 same thing. Right now, we didn't get to talk about 1:16:48.880 --> 1:16:51.920 you being pardoned. Um, but I think there isn't there's 1:16:51.920 --> 1:16:55.000 a different show that we need to do to talk 1:16:55.120 --> 1:16:59.599 about the Trump era, if you will, and you being 1:16:59.760 --> 1:17:03.720 part I didn't buy Trump what that means. And also, um, 1:17:03.880 --> 1:17:07.920 you and I have had some difficult conversations about the 1:17:08.080 --> 1:17:11.479 need to work with the the Trump administration to help 1:17:11.600 --> 1:17:14.760 get people released and and and how to make that 1:17:15.000 --> 1:17:20.040 happen while still fighting against the um un the very 1:17:20.160 --> 1:17:24.360 very dangerous if you will, uh tone of that administration. 1:17:24.600 --> 1:17:27.280 So we want to bring you back to talk about that, 1:17:27.400 --> 1:17:29.639 but I think we've got to have you and Van 1:17:29.840 --> 1:17:33.200 Jones and some other people on at the same time 1:17:33.280 --> 1:17:36.000 so we can really get into a deep conversation about 1:17:36.080 --> 1:17:40.120 how we don't allow how we make sure every administration 1:17:40.400 --> 1:17:44.599 and pardons and works for us, but yet still find 1:17:44.640 --> 1:17:46.720 a way to make sure our people feel like we're 1:17:46.760 --> 1:17:49.040 still tent tooes down. And I think Ladies of Hope 1:17:49.080 --> 1:17:51.919 Ministry allows you to be in a lot of spaces 1:17:52.000 --> 1:17:54.240 and show what you're still doing for our communities. So 1:17:54.400 --> 1:17:57.320 thank you so much. Sobeka, Well, I really appreciate the 1:17:57.400 --> 1:17:59.920 opportunity to be on here. As Cat loves me, I 1:18:00.120 --> 1:18:02.519 love her equally, um and I love both of you. 1:18:02.760 --> 1:18:05.599 You know, as you say that you support my work, 1:18:05.720 --> 1:18:08.920 I support you. I you know, appreciate you. I do 1:18:09.120 --> 1:18:11.000 know how difficult it is to me go. I've seen, 1:18:11.120 --> 1:18:13.880 as you said you prior to me going to prison, 1:18:14.000 --> 1:18:16.360 and I've seen just all that you've done through, true 1:18:16.400 --> 1:18:19.519 and through, and so you know, God bless both of you. 1:18:19.920 --> 1:18:22.120 I know how difficult that is to be on those 1:18:22.240 --> 1:18:25.040 front lines all the time. I would love to come 1:18:25.720 --> 1:18:28.680 back to talk about that conversation that we have had, 1:18:29.120 --> 1:18:31.800 but also to talk about, you know, you know, how 1:18:32.640 --> 1:18:35.479 the community like how I mean I got daggered. I 1:18:35.560 --> 1:18:38.080 mean I probably be been if I actually if God 1:18:38.120 --> 1:18:41.160 did sparituly put the arm all over me while I 1:18:41.280 --> 1:18:44.519 was going into some of those places. Um, but understanding that, 1:18:44.760 --> 1:18:47.080 you know, when your people are calling you from inside 1:18:47.120 --> 1:18:49.920 of prison every single day and they're like, they don't 1:18:50.040 --> 1:18:52.519 care whatever you can do to get us out of here, 1:18:52.560 --> 1:18:55.240 because without them that they would die in prison, you 1:18:55.360 --> 1:18:57.200 have to make a choice if you were really going 1:18:57.360 --> 1:18:59.640 to you know, and it's not about you know, you 1:18:59.840 --> 1:19:03.280 you you have the amble to your point right on 1:19:03.720 --> 1:19:05.760 what you're doing and how you're doing it. But I 1:19:05.880 --> 1:19:08.880 think that it's also critical that we understand that, you know, 1:19:09.960 --> 1:19:12.640 whether we talk about you know, Trump or Republicans or 1:19:12.640 --> 1:19:16.639 anyone that's gotten us to this point. Every everyone has 1:19:16.720 --> 1:19:18.479 gotten us to this point. When you think about the 1:19:18.520 --> 1:19:21.040 crime Bill, you think about all those things, right, and 1:19:21.120 --> 1:19:24.640 who voted the crime bill, in all of those things. Um, 1:19:24.720 --> 1:19:26.720 when we look at what's happening now, you know, I 1:19:26.880 --> 1:19:29.480 had some ideas of what I thought this president administration 1:19:29.520 --> 1:19:32.439 should have done immediately when they came in to right 1:19:32.520 --> 1:19:33.920 some of the wrongs that they were a part of. 1:19:34.040 --> 1:19:36.920 That has not been done, um, and who knows if 1:19:36.960 --> 1:19:39.240 it will be done right? And so I think, you know, 1:19:39.560 --> 1:19:41.960 as people, we need to really really focus on our 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:44.880 people and not so much the politics and what we 1:19:44.960 --> 1:19:47.160 don't like. We need to change. So, you know, we 1:19:47.240 --> 1:19:49.200 need to run for public office. We need to take 1:19:49.240 --> 1:19:51.080 a hold of those seats. We need to you know, 1:19:51.200 --> 1:19:54.360 figure out what's really happening in these communities around jerrymandering 1:19:54.400 --> 1:19:57.080 and everything else. And we need to position ourselves in 1:19:57.120 --> 1:20:00.320 these communities and take our communities back because with out it, 1:20:00.920 --> 1:20:03.560 we're gonna have these people representing us, which is not 1:20:03.680 --> 1:20:09.559 representing us at all. I heard you have it, Sopeka k. Sam. 1:20:09.720 --> 1:20:12.400 Thank you for being with us today. We appreciate you, 1:20:12.600 --> 1:20:16.400 love you, and we support you. Says that's right. I 1:20:16.439 --> 1:20:21.640 appreciate you'all, love you. Let me too. Shout out to 1:20:21.720 --> 1:20:25.000 Topeka man Tapika. That was an excellent interview. I didn't 1:20:25.040 --> 1:20:27.760 know all of the stuff. I've definitely heard a lot 1:20:28.479 --> 1:20:31.520 about her being incarcerated. I didn't even know her background 1:20:32.200 --> 1:20:34.120 or which she was actually from. I've just seen the 1:20:34.200 --> 1:20:37.080 work that she was doing, so she was very informative 1:20:37.200 --> 1:20:40.040 and just seeing how she transformed that. Like you know, 1:20:40.120 --> 1:20:41.760 I tell people that I'm about this. I told you 1:20:41.840 --> 1:20:45.360 I'm about to do a show co Evolutionary, where you know, 1:20:45.960 --> 1:20:49.680 I talk about people who have been informally incarcerated. Most 1:20:49.720 --> 1:20:51.960 people don't even know what have been formally incarcerated, or 1:20:52.040 --> 1:20:55.679 don't understand just how great they are after being formally 1:20:55.720 --> 1:20:58.840 because there's this stigma about you being incarcerated, and there's 1:20:58.880 --> 1:21:01.680 so many great people who've been incustrated. So I want 1:21:01.720 --> 1:21:04.439 to do a whole show that just focuses on that 1:21:04.800 --> 1:21:08.800 shout out to Topeka and that shoutout telling that, yeah, 1:21:08.960 --> 1:21:14.559 Topeka's she's she's She's a very driven young lady, always 1:21:14.640 --> 1:21:17.799 has been. She was driven when she was doing whatever 1:21:18.120 --> 1:21:21.800 you know, form of um dealing, drug dealing she was doing. 1:21:21.920 --> 1:21:27.160 She was ambitious then and I don't know, you know, 1:21:27.320 --> 1:21:33.320 but fifty keys and something. That's that's when you big outside. No, 1:21:33.520 --> 1:21:38.240 I don't know, but you know, she Um, she's always 1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:41.600 been really ambitious and a hard worker, and you know, 1:21:41.720 --> 1:21:46.320 it's just good to see that the story didn't end tragically. 1:21:46.520 --> 1:21:48.720 Like you know, it would have been tragic for her 1:21:48.800 --> 1:21:52.160 not to come back into society and you know, figure 1:21:52.240 --> 1:21:54.519 things out and be able to make a way for 1:21:54.640 --> 1:21:56.880 other people. As you said to her. I thought that 1:21:57.000 --> 1:21:59.280 was so positive that you all, you know, I mean, 1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:02.320 I thought that was powerful when you said that. You know, 1:22:02.439 --> 1:22:04.960 not only are you trying to you know, forge away 1:22:05.040 --> 1:22:07.200 for yourself, but you're making a way for other people. 1:22:07.320 --> 1:22:09.920 So shout out to Tepeka Sam and and of course 1:22:10.320 --> 1:22:12.800 you know our girl Tiffany Lofton who came on first 1:22:12.880 --> 1:22:15.920 to talk about Julius Jones. Um, you know, just to 1:22:16.000 --> 1:22:18.920 see Julius, I mean to see Tiffany out there fighting 1:22:19.000 --> 1:22:21.760 for Julius. And really, you know her her wings have 1:22:21.920 --> 1:22:25.479 sort of been cut where she's no longer under a 1:22:25.600 --> 1:22:29.120 certain type of organization. You know, she's she's a bit 1:22:29.200 --> 1:22:33.120 worked in labor, so that's one type of organizing model. 1:22:33.520 --> 1:22:35.080 Of course, since she was at the N double A 1:22:35.160 --> 1:22:39.519 c P, that's another structure that is very very structured. 1:22:39.760 --> 1:22:41.360 When you work for the N double A c P, 1:22:41.920 --> 1:22:43.680 you know, not to say that they wouldn't have been 1:22:43.720 --> 1:22:48.040 on this case because, um, you know, just thinking about 1:22:48.120 --> 1:22:53.120 like Jill taker Ead Uh, she is a young sister 1:22:53.200 --> 1:22:55.720 who was at the n Double A CP who specifically 1:22:55.800 --> 1:22:59.160 worked on ending death row and was able to get 1:22:59.280 --> 1:23:04.160 different state to stop uh executing individuals. So I'm not 1:23:04.200 --> 1:23:06.400 saying that a C doesn't do that work, but and 1:23:06.439 --> 1:23:09.240 that they wouldn't be involved in Julius Jones situation. But 1:23:09.320 --> 1:23:12.040 the issue is that when you are an employee, you 1:23:12.200 --> 1:23:14.360 really do have to go up the chain to get 1:23:14.520 --> 1:23:17.680 the right way and the approval on how you can 1:23:17.720 --> 1:23:21.280 approach these issues. And so now to see her out 1:23:21.400 --> 1:23:25.320 there working with grassroots law, which is obviously an environment 1:23:25.439 --> 1:23:29.280 that gives, um, you much more freedom to figure out 1:23:29.840 --> 1:23:32.439 what is the right way to run a campaign. And 1:23:32.600 --> 1:23:35.559 she's doing that and I'm watching it happen and I'm 1:23:35.680 --> 1:23:38.360 really really super proud of her, and I hope that 1:23:38.640 --> 1:23:43.080 in the end it it is it benefits Julius, you know, 1:23:43.320 --> 1:23:46.040 to have that energy on the ground. Um when I 1:23:46.080 --> 1:23:49.040 think about it, actually, uh, the local in Double A 1:23:49.160 --> 1:23:52.960 CP president and the organization is involved. So to have 1:23:53.240 --> 1:23:56.960 all until freedom and her Roland and all of these 1:23:57.040 --> 1:24:03.519 different individuals and entities apporting to me that should make 1:24:03.640 --> 1:24:07.080 up the mix the suit that we talk about that 1:24:07.200 --> 1:24:10.880 will free this man o man, you know, I believe, 1:24:10.920 --> 1:24:14.200 I really, I really, truly truly believe that, and I 1:24:14.280 --> 1:24:16.759 believe it's definitely gonna happen soon. To shout out to Tiffany. 1:24:17.360 --> 1:24:19.680 But um, we got we come to my own. I 1:24:19.760 --> 1:24:27.240 don't get it, you know, and it's it's a little 1:24:27.280 --> 1:24:29.120 bit offered this, but it is has to do it. 1:24:29.640 --> 1:24:33.080 That's black people. You know. We talk about legacy organizations, 1:24:33.120 --> 1:24:36.479 and you can't really talk about black legacy organizations without 1:24:36.520 --> 1:24:41.559 talking about HBCUs, you know. And unfortunately, I had an 1:24:41.600 --> 1:24:45.040 opportunity to go to Howard Campus a couple of days ago, 1:24:45.960 --> 1:24:49.400 and I really don't get this situation at all. Like 1:24:49.680 --> 1:24:56.240 I am so completely lost, you know. I looked went 1:24:56.320 --> 1:25:02.400 to a campus and seen young black men, young men 1:25:02.479 --> 1:25:07.560 and women sleeping intense sleeping in the buildings, talking of 1:25:07.720 --> 1:25:11.120 giving me blow blow by blows, and how there's mold 1:25:11.200 --> 1:25:13.360 in their rooms, how they don't even have WiFi, how 1:25:13.400 --> 1:25:18.240 they're paying fifty dollars to do online classes, how people 1:25:18.280 --> 1:25:20.519 are just some of them have been told to come 1:25:20.560 --> 1:25:23.240 to the campus because they had living and they didn't 1:25:23.280 --> 1:25:24.720 have nowhere for them to live, and they have to 1:25:24.760 --> 1:25:27.160 sleep in cars. Some of them talking about how the 1:25:27.240 --> 1:25:29.920 meal prep is so disgusting that you wouldn't even eat 1:25:29.920 --> 1:25:33.640 it if you was in prison. Like it was embarrassing 1:25:33.760 --> 1:25:36.960 because you know, as a young boy hearing about HBCUs, 1:25:37.000 --> 1:25:38.400 I never went to one, but I have a lot 1:25:38.439 --> 1:25:41.960 of friends and family who have been to hbc U 1:25:42.080 --> 1:25:44.960 s and I watched school days and I wanted to 1:25:45.000 --> 1:25:47.240 be part of that, you know, I wanted I wanted 1:25:47.280 --> 1:25:50.080 to go to HBCU so to see that this is 1:25:50.120 --> 1:25:53.400 the experience of young freshman's and and and a lot 1:25:53.479 --> 1:25:55.479 of them saying this is we don't have anything else. 1:25:55.600 --> 1:25:58.679 We we can't fail here, you know, like they're saying 1:25:58.720 --> 1:26:02.000 that they not even given their courses properly. They don't 1:26:02.000 --> 1:26:04.720 have the opportunity to excel. They've given up everything that 1:26:04.840 --> 1:26:08.000 mother took out, the loans they took out, put leans 1:26:08.040 --> 1:26:10.679 on their homes, all type of things. To be able 1:26:10.760 --> 1:26:13.720 to come to this experience and to see that this 1:26:13.880 --> 1:26:16.080 is what they're going through. They they had some of 1:26:16.120 --> 1:26:18.600 them had tears in their eyes. We had tears and 1:26:19.120 --> 1:26:21.000 eyes just listened to the story, and I really just 1:26:21.160 --> 1:26:25.639 don't get how the administration at Howard allowed this situation 1:26:25.720 --> 1:26:28.679 to get to this. You know, well, let me say 1:26:28.880 --> 1:26:33.560 that there's a few things on that um Howards administration. 1:26:33.960 --> 1:26:41.160 Of course, they have heavy, heavy, heavy, heavy load and 1:26:41.400 --> 1:26:44.880 burden that they have to answer to as it relates 1:26:44.920 --> 1:26:50.040 to the conditions of the students. Absolutely um. Even if 1:26:50.120 --> 1:26:55.639 they feel that some of it is misunderstandings, overblown. I've 1:26:55.680 --> 1:26:59.519 heard all types of responses. They need to speak to it. 1:27:00.200 --> 1:27:03.559 They need to speak to the students directly, not try 1:27:03.640 --> 1:27:07.160 to isolate one or two students, but to speak to 1:27:07.479 --> 1:27:12.040 all the students in an open format. UM. That gives them, 1:27:12.240 --> 1:27:16.200 the students the opportunity to ask questions, to bring grievances, 1:27:16.400 --> 1:27:19.720 and that puts the administration in a place where they 1:27:19.880 --> 1:27:23.559 will respond to what they can respond to, where they 1:27:23.600 --> 1:27:28.559 will be able to hear um and and here without um, 1:27:29.400 --> 1:27:35.000 without animosity and age a jerk to try to you know, well, 1:27:35.120 --> 1:27:38.519 we're gonna silence you by um having you thrown out 1:27:38.600 --> 1:27:41.639 of school. It would be best for them to show 1:27:41.800 --> 1:27:44.240 up and get their sleeves rolled up and get into 1:27:44.640 --> 1:27:47.599 what is happening with the students and walk alongside them 1:27:47.680 --> 1:27:50.600 to try to fix some of these issues. So with 1:27:50.840 --> 1:27:54.839 that being said, the reason why I I I suggest 1:27:54.960 --> 1:27:58.680 that the administration sort of roll up their sleeves and 1:27:58.760 --> 1:28:02.160 get in there with Howard is because all of it, 1:28:02.760 --> 1:28:07.120 everything that's happening, is not their fault alone. We have 1:28:07.280 --> 1:28:11.400 a problem with the funding, the real funding. Yes, granted 1:28:11.840 --> 1:28:15.320 fifty dollars, there's a lot of money from each student 1:28:15.840 --> 1:28:21.920 for the semesters. But if you go to predominantly white institutions, 1:28:22.600 --> 1:28:26.800 they are receiving more money and more support from the 1:28:26.960 --> 1:28:31.400 outside community, which are rich folks, particularly rich white folks, 1:28:31.520 --> 1:28:36.360 with endowments to help these schools succeed, and the resources 1:28:36.479 --> 1:28:40.880 that they receive from the government is completely different at 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:48.200 HBCUs they are suffering severely from underfunding and from the 1:28:48.560 --> 1:28:53.040 disrespect that continues to happen over and over for black 1:28:53.200 --> 1:28:57.080 institutions within our society and by our government, and the 1:28:57.160 --> 1:28:59.880 fact that there are too many people out here who 1:29:00.040 --> 1:29:04.520 do not see the need to educate and make comfortable 1:29:04.960 --> 1:29:09.400 black students. So to be host out towards the students, 1:29:09.800 --> 1:29:14.240 to me is a lack of foresight and it's ignorant 1:29:14.479 --> 1:29:18.600 because really they could be coming together to show that 1:29:18.840 --> 1:29:22.559 these are some of the challenges that HBCUs go through. 1:29:22.800 --> 1:29:25.519 But the problem is that we are often wanting to 1:29:25.640 --> 1:29:29.160 put up a wall and to blame the victims rather 1:29:29.320 --> 1:29:33.080 than to understand that this is a problem that has 1:29:33.160 --> 1:29:35.640 to be worked through. Mold has to be worked on 1:29:36.200 --> 1:29:40.880 regardless of who is responsible for it, and if Colverus 1:29:41.160 --> 1:29:45.599 which is the company UM that owns and operates most 1:29:45.720 --> 1:29:49.320 of the buildings, So people need to understand that at 1:29:49.400 --> 1:29:53.640 Howard and other schools they do not own and operate 1:29:53.880 --> 1:29:58.840 all of the housing buildings, that there are other entities 1:29:59.120 --> 1:30:01.960 that have been bought in to do that because of 1:30:02.200 --> 1:30:06.479 the lack of funding within these institutions, and Calvus UM 1:30:06.640 --> 1:30:08.800 has not done a good job just trying to clean 1:30:08.920 --> 1:30:14.160 buildings and not actually doing the renovations. It's criminal, it's wrong, 1:30:14.560 --> 1:30:17.280 and the students need to be supported, their voices need 1:30:17.360 --> 1:30:19.880 to be uplifted. But I think this is also a 1:30:20.040 --> 1:30:23.360 good time to get into the real layers of what's 1:30:23.360 --> 1:30:29.120 going on with HBCUs, black institutions, Black educational institutions and 1:30:29.240 --> 1:30:31.560 to be able to see not where you can just 1:30:31.840 --> 1:30:35.240 blame UM, you know, one entity or the other, but 1:30:35.400 --> 1:30:38.200 to look at the entire problem and to see how 1:30:38.320 --> 1:30:42.600 our government is also feeling black students in these colleges. 1:30:43.320 --> 1:30:45.559 It's the fact, you know, um, that that was one 1:30:45.600 --> 1:30:48.679 of the things that the kids. So they we sat 1:30:48.760 --> 1:30:52.040 and had you know, closed for them inside the auditorium 1:30:52.080 --> 1:30:54.800 in Blackburn, and which you know, we just listened to 1:30:54.960 --> 1:30:57.240 their grievances and they and they have a whole plan 1:30:57.439 --> 1:30:59.960 and Calvarius was one of the places that they talked about, 1:31:00.400 --> 1:31:02.800 and they talked about also how the administration and how 1:31:03.439 --> 1:31:05.600 you know, how it has a contract with Cavarius that 1:31:05.680 --> 1:31:08.200 they could have broken, but because they didn't want to 1:31:08.240 --> 1:31:12.479 lose money, they allowed, you know, this could continue on. 1:31:12.720 --> 1:31:16.040 So as much as Cavarus is responsible. You know, the 1:31:16.160 --> 1:31:20.080 fact that um Howard University and who's in charge of 1:31:20.320 --> 1:31:24.400 those the board members and everyone involved in that situation, President, 1:31:24.520 --> 1:31:28.280 everyone involved in not breaking this contract is when they 1:31:28.479 --> 1:31:31.640 see that, you know, it's not being handled properly. You know, 1:31:31.720 --> 1:31:34.519 they also have to take some responsibility. And like you said, 1:31:34.760 --> 1:31:37.160 they should be. They should be sitting out there with 1:31:37.280 --> 1:31:40.160 the kids saying, yo, you know, none of our kids 1:31:40.200 --> 1:31:43.160 should have to sleep in rooms with molding, you know, 1:31:43.640 --> 1:31:47.400 so I mean, period exactly, they should be saying that 1:31:47.520 --> 1:31:51.000 they should be together with the students saying this is outrageous. 1:31:51.880 --> 1:31:55.719 But you know what's happening instead is that every single 1:31:55.920 --> 1:32:00.160 day the story is getting worse for the administration. Now 1:32:00.240 --> 1:32:03.040 I saw that the president. They have a sign, they 1:32:03.120 --> 1:32:06.040 got a big old poster and they have the president 1:32:06.680 --> 1:32:14.040 his picture. Well you have, yeah, So unfortunately that's what's 1:32:14.080 --> 1:32:17.840 happening because there is a level of hostility that you 1:32:17.920 --> 1:32:23.800 know it's unnecessary, but you know, hey, they'll figure it out. 1:32:24.479 --> 1:32:27.000 I think they got all over, they got this, they 1:32:27.120 --> 1:32:32.680 got this sign all over all over once again. Man, 1:32:33.360 --> 1:32:37.200 this is a dope show. You know, um listening. So 1:32:37.400 --> 1:32:40.759 Peaka just gave me reinvigorated a little bit of energy 1:32:40.840 --> 1:32:42.920 for me being formally incostrated means I gotta do a 1:32:42.960 --> 1:32:45.519 little bit more. You know, she's out here all of 1:32:45.560 --> 1:32:49.040 these programs and you know, paying it forward. You know, 1:32:49.120 --> 1:32:51.920 we want to appreciate her for coming on the show, 1:32:52.520 --> 1:32:55.400 and we're praying for Julius. Man, I believe, I really 1:32:55.439 --> 1:32:58.160 believe deep in my heart that you know, this hearing 1:32:58.280 --> 1:33:01.640 is gonna come and you know, his state of executional 1:33:01.760 --> 1:33:05.200 result in him actually being released. I believe, I really 1:33:05.280 --> 1:33:07.720 believe that I don't see. I don't see any of 1:33:07.800 --> 1:33:12.280 them option in this situation. So shout out to Tiffany 1:33:12.360 --> 1:33:15.000 for updating us with that, and shout out to his 1:33:15.120 --> 1:33:19.320 family and friends and role I mean for m herv Rolling, 1:33:19.720 --> 1:33:22.479 everybody who's been supporting him, everybody who's been on the 1:33:22.560 --> 1:33:25.920 front line, grassroots law and everybody. Man. Shout out to 1:33:26.040 --> 1:33:28.479 y'all man for the work that you're doing out there. 1:33:28.720 --> 1:33:34.880 So that brings us to end of another number one podcast. 1:33:36.120 --> 1:33:39.160 Number one podcasts in the world brings us to another end, 1:33:39.560 --> 1:33:42.520 another show that we end, and I want to appreciate 1:33:42.640 --> 1:33:45.960 y'all everybody who's been supporting us. You know, I always 1:33:46.000 --> 1:33:48.640 say we number one, but we're gradually moving again. You know, 1:33:48.960 --> 1:33:51.880 people are definitely being engaging. People stopped me on the 1:33:51.960 --> 1:33:54.920 streets sin how much they love this podcast. Just know 1:33:55.080 --> 1:33:58.760 that we appreciate you. If you have any suggestions, tell 1:33:58.840 --> 1:34:01.120 us things that you want to see, you want to hear, 1:34:01.280 --> 1:34:04.000 things you don't like, things you loved, you know how 1:34:04.120 --> 1:34:07.240 much you hate me or love me, whatever. I take 1:34:07.320 --> 1:34:09.200 all of it, man, We want all of the feedback. 1:34:09.520 --> 1:34:12.880 Go to Street Politicians Pod. You can leave suggestions there 1:34:12.960 --> 1:34:15.960 On Instagram for anything that you want to see or here. 1:34:16.600 --> 1:34:18.920 You know, if you like Tamike us here today, you 1:34:19.000 --> 1:34:22.720 can let us know. You know. She we we all, 1:34:22.840 --> 1:34:25.679 we want all of everything you got, man. So once again, 1:34:26.439 --> 1:34:30.040 I'm not gonna always be right. Jamica Mallory will not 1:34:30.240 --> 1:34:32.800 always be wrong, even though most of the times between 1:34:32.840 --> 1:34:35.400 me and how she will. But we will both always 1:34:35.479 --> 1:34:41.479 and I mean always, be authentic solutely. Listen to Street 1:34:41.560 --> 1:34:45.080 Politicians on the Black Effect Network on I Heart Radio 1:34:45.479 --> 1:34:47.920 and catch us every single Wednesday for the video version 1:34:47.920 --> 1:34:50.120 of Street Politicians when I Women dot Tv