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Speaker 1: I was holding the baby and I farted on the couch,

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Speaker 1: and the leather of the couch was a sonic created

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Speaker 1: a sonic location was like discolored or something. No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: it was merely the fabric of it all. It took

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Speaker 1: it to a sonic place that it was just like amplified.

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Speaker 1: It was like screaming into a megaphone. And then I

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Speaker 1: got I got yelled at from across the house. But

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Speaker 1: then wow, the baby. I was, like I said in Japanese,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well, not see you. And then like I said,

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Speaker 1: farts are funny, right, and he's just maybe nice the

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Speaker 1: culture alive. We're farters in this house.

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Speaker 2: You get it image that.

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Speaker 3: There being like an iridescent stain or something on the

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Speaker 3: It was just like my mind.

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Speaker 2: Like a dried oil. S. Yeah, this is one strip sunfaded.

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Speaker 2: So it's like remember those hologram stickers from the nineties.

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Speaker 2: When I changed my viewing angle, it has like a

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Speaker 2: different scene to it. Now it's green. Now, it's like

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Speaker 2: a phosphorescent pink. You can see a face in it.

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Speaker 2: I was eating shrimp tails.

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Speaker 3: Oh man, Hello the Internet, and welcome to Season three

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Speaker 3: point fifty nine, Episode two, of Daily's.

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Speaker 2: Say production of My Heart Radio. This is a podcast

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Speaker 2: where we take a deep dab into America share consciousness.

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Speaker 2: And it is Tuesday, October eighth, twenty twenty four. Ten good.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it's National Parogi Day. It's national it says American

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Speaker 1: Touch Tag Day, which I'm guessing that's just playing tag.

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Speaker 1: But that's like when they're like, oh, they call it

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Speaker 1: soft over there, it's touch tag I guess to the

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Speaker 1: rest of the world, Touch Tag Day.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why it's it's it's usually all this.

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Speaker 1: These national day calendars are typically from the perspective of America.

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Speaker 2: You know, I enjoy like some of the britishisms of

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Speaker 2: like the you know our words, but that one just

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Speaker 2: we fixed it tag, guys, just tag it's cleaner.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. And then fluffer Nutter. It's National fluffer Nuder

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Speaker 1: Day over those that love the fluffer nutter.

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Speaker 2: Sure, why not? There you go, you can have it,

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Speaker 2: big fluffer nutter. My name's Jack O'Brien. Aka. Why do

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Speaker 2: flies sudden lee appear every time Trump is near? He's rotting? No,

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Speaker 2: couldn't be migrants, dude. That one courtesy of Halcyon Salad

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Speaker 2: on the discord in honor of Trump seeing a fly

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Speaker 2: during a speech and saying, Oh, it's a fly. Wonder,

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Speaker 2: wonder where a came from? Like Wow, he has a

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Speaker 2: conspiracy theory that the fly. We're not sure entirely couldn't

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Speaker 2: be that he is decomposing like the bad guy in

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Speaker 2: Men in Black. Could not be that. Maybe it's because

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Speaker 2: it's the first time he's ever been out of doors

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Speaker 2: around people who aren't carrying his golf bags. But he

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Speaker 2: he did seem confused by that fly. Hates the fly.

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Speaker 2: I'm thrilled to be joined as always by my co

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Speaker 2: host mister Miles.

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Speaker 1: Grass, Miles Gray and look in honor of a wonderful

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Speaker 1: weekend for my dear Arsenal Football Club. What about some

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Speaker 1: Arsenal related aka's. It's Miles Gray aka Deck trend Rice

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Speaker 1: aka mchhel r Trenda aka Leean Trend Truss Art aka

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Speaker 1: take Trendo, Tomiyasu uh And obviously I'm the Showgun with

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Speaker 1: no Gun, the Lord of Lankersham, the Man with chronic podcast.

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Speaker 2: But Miles great, thank you so much for having me

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Speaker 2: back for the season. Miles talk at Trendo. We've never

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Speaker 2: done that as a trending title. Really it is something. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she'll have to remedy anyways. Miles were thrilled to be

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Speaker 2: joined in our third and fourth seats by the co

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Speaker 2: hosts of the wonderful podcast that you must go listen

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Speaker 2: to right now, The Future of our former Democracy. They

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Speaker 2: are the executive director and the director of Policy and Outreach, respectively,

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Speaker 2: for the racial justice organization More Equitable Democracy. Please welcome,

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Speaker 2: George Chung and Colin Cally Welcome. Hey guys. Thanks. You know,

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Speaker 2: we like welcome lights. We like to keep the light.

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Speaker 2: We have invited you into just a blank white space.

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Speaker 2: We record in heavy void, the hea then the white

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Speaker 2: void of old Mac versus PC commercials.

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Speaker 1: Or what was the one? What isn't in willy Wonka.

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Speaker 1: Where are they at when they go into that all

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Speaker 1: white space? Oh they're in the TV, I think, Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's in the TV. Inside the TV. Yeah, inside the TV.

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Speaker 4: Hey, Colin Cole aka Mike TV.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Oh you're Mike TV. Yeah. I've always been a

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Speaker 2: little bit of uh whatever the guy is who gets

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Speaker 2: sucked into the tube myself the uh yeah.

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Speaker 1: As blue Yeah something come on, nail it, come on,

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Speaker 1: I'll come to you.

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Speaker 2: Germany I mix it up. My brain is glop and

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Speaker 2: there it is. Shout out to super producer Victor bringing it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: liked the group a little too much. Maybe that is

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Speaker 2: a movie I recently watched with my children, and it

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Speaker 2: has like thirty really good minutes and it is just

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Speaker 2: coasting off of our memory of the thirty really good

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Speaker 2: minutes and oh really Yeah, there's a lot of it

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Speaker 2: that's just like uh huh, all right, Like after they

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Speaker 2: leave the Big Candy World and go on the boat ride,

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Speaker 2: it does kind of grind to a halt a little bit.

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Speaker 2: There's other moments, but like they are fleeting and that's

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Speaker 2: just my opinion. Shame.

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Speaker 1: I just remember always hating when he got all mad

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Speaker 1: at Charlie. I was like, dude, what you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be cool with?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Like, and as a kid, I didn't know what to

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Speaker 1: make sense of that character's experience. I'm like, dude, this

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Speaker 1: guy's an asshole. Let's just turn this off. I thought you.

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Speaker 2: Turn it off. You never saw the end. Yeah, it's like,

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Speaker 2: what an asshole? Turn Yeah? Yep. George Colin, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for joining us from the Great Northwest. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you guys are in Seattle. Is that correct?

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Speaker 5: Ye Just keep going and take.

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Speaker 2: A past reading. Keep going, keep going, yea, keep going,

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Speaker 2: keep on. Is it is it called the five up

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Speaker 2: there or it's high five up here? Just five? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's in l A. Nobody else the words highways. The

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Speaker 2: importance of the five.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean, but it is an important interstate,

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Speaker 1: you know, we love Oh that's why the ten also

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Speaker 1: deserves respect, going from sea to shining sea.

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Speaker 2: Oh right, they're all given the the I think in

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Speaker 2: l A and only at l A. I've never heard of.

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Speaker 1: Wonder what the history is of our inability to just

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Speaker 1: I guess because we always want to speak differently than

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Speaker 1: other people.

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Speaker 4: It's a remnant of surfer culture.

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Speaker 1: Yeah right, Yeah, take on one dude over to the

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Speaker 1: four oh five.

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Speaker 2: They cast the one eighteen over hit Meatip and Granada Hills.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, anyway, that's probably not as important as about

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Speaker 1: than what we're about to.

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Speaker 2: Talk about today, but I still wanted to mention that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But like I said, listeners should listen to this podcast

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Speaker 2: and then also immediately go listen to the future of

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Speaker 2: our former democracy. Great title, great podcast. We are going

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Speaker 2: to get into a little bit of what your podcast

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Speaker 2: is about it's about how our current political system is, Like,

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Speaker 2: there are some things that I was taking for granted

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Speaker 2: about our current political system. You guys use the this

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Speaker 2: is water metaphor at the beginning of like, yeah, this

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Speaker 2: is just what we've always assumed is how it is

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Speaker 2: and always will be, and that there are some things

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Speaker 2: that can be better. Maybe I like it. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: so we're gonna get into all of that, but first

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Speaker 2: we want to get to know you both a little

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Speaker 2: bit better by asking you each what is something from

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Speaker 2: your search history that is revealing about who you are? George,

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Speaker 2: why don't we start with you? All right?

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Speaker 5: So I'm gonna play to my stereotypes. I'm a gay man,

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Speaker 5: and I can't get enough of trying to figure out

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Speaker 5: if I can get Kylie Minogue tickets that go on

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Speaker 5: sale tomorrow. Okay, so for all you other people in

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Speaker 5: Seattle who are also gay, man, it's on sale next week, please,

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Speaker 5: so don't check you. Kylie won't be coming through to Seattle, yeah,

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Speaker 5: and go ahead, go have at it. But I need

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Speaker 5: my front row Kylie Minogue seats because she hasn't come

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Speaker 5: to do a tour of the US for a long time.

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Speaker 5: So gotta, you know, keep up the appearance.

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Speaker 2: How long has it?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like Kylie Minogue is just one

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Speaker 1: of those huge artists that I'm always like, yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: Kylie Minogue.

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Speaker 2: But it's been a long time since she's been in stateside. Uh.

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Speaker 5: She had a residence in Vegues and of course I

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Speaker 5: had to go do that, but she hasn't been to

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Speaker 5: like around for I think maybe almost better part of

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Speaker 5: a decade. Definitely pandemic, got it, got it, got it,

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Speaker 5: got it.

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Speaker 2: And did your fandom go all the way back to Locomo? Yes?

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Speaker 5: Yes, And maybe it was those kind of feelings that

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Speaker 5: I got to early on. I'm like, hmmm, I'm feeling

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Speaker 5: a little different. Some of our videos were a little edgy.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, oh right, all right, I like this for

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Speaker 5: not quite sure what reason. So uh, definitely I do

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Speaker 5: the locomotion as much as I can.

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Speaker 2: Really, what's up with Danny Minogue? Danny is I did

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Speaker 2: say that, but you know, you know, she has.

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Speaker 5: Her own career too. And yeah, the last time I

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Speaker 5: went to Sydney, they had World Pride there. She kind

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Speaker 5: of made a cameo appearance with her more famous sister,

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Speaker 5: So it was like, you know.

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Speaker 1: George, you're going to Australia to even see Oh no, no,

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Speaker 1: this is the last time I went to Australia.

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Speaker 5: Happened.

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Speaker 2: Okay. I was just trying to gauge your minogue fandom

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Speaker 2: here and I.

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Speaker 5: Oh, it's pretty hot.

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Speaker 2: We're going down er, yes, yes, yes, how about you, Colin,

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Speaker 2: what's something you from your search history? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So I'll also play a stereotype, I mean herd. And

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Speaker 4: the phrase that I searched for was Warhammer word of Hermis,

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Speaker 4: because I'm a big fan of the deepest lore, you know,

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Speaker 4: in all my fictional franchises I participate in. And I'm

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Speaker 4: going through a Warhammer book right now that made reference

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Speaker 4: to a starship the word of Hermes, and I wanted

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Speaker 4: to look it up on the Warhammer Wikipedia to learn

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Speaker 4: more about it.

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Speaker 2: Wow, what man, I'm like the I played the.

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Speaker 1: Game a little bit and then then I realized, I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: there's a whole other level to this that I am

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Speaker 1: not engaging with.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, that's okay.

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Speaker 4: It's a weirdly big ip. It spans back like fifty years.

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Speaker 4: It's a tabletop board game. There's hundreds of books, there's

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Speaker 4: video games, there's like a whole like mock history to

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Speaker 4: the actual setting. You know, twenty thousand years of backstory

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Speaker 4: right been thought out to get there. It's pretty cool

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Speaker 4: if you're into that sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: I just remember going to like in this hobby shop

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Speaker 1: by my house as a kid, and I loved miniatures,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know that it was a tabletop game,

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Speaker 1: but I was like, yeah, I want Like to me,

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Speaker 1: they're like, these are the better version than plastic army men, right,

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I want these.

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Speaker 2: And I had like a little.

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Speaker 1: Like piece of paper that was like fake AstroTurf that

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Speaker 1: I put my little Warhammer figures out, and I was like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you play Warhammer. I'm like what these are my little

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Speaker 1: dolls that I like. I sat up and then I

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Speaker 1: was like my entry point.

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Speaker 2: Like, oh, it's a game.

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Speaker 1: This makes sense why it was sold in this shop,

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Speaker 1: not just like these stationary toys.

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Speaker 2: Me.

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Speaker 4: On the other hand, so I grew up, you know,

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Speaker 4: playing video games, building my own computer. I played Dungeons

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Speaker 4: and Dragons, and I always thought Warhammer's too nerdy even

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Speaker 4: for me though, and I like avoided it. And then

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Speaker 4: during pandemic, a couple of friends got into it and

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Speaker 4: dragged me along. And then now here I am neckty.

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Speaker 5: Right, right, okay, but did they really drag you along?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 4: I got into it for for social activity only. I

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Speaker 4: wanted nothing to do with it.

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Speaker 2: And now I stick word of Hermes. We're going on.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the Kingdom of Dust, that's.

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Speaker 4: Right, the soul Jackal, the pyrodomon the you know, the

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Speaker 4: whole thing.

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Speaker 2: Damn, I know it, all those words. I mean, uh,

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Speaker 2: the So it started out as a miniature war game,

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Speaker 2: that's right.

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Speaker 4: That was satirizing Margaret Thatcher and conservativism in the UK

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Speaker 4: and envisioned a future world where like conservatives, like ultra

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Speaker 4: conservatives became the like despot humanity of the stars, and

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Speaker 4: humans are the bad guys and they're out trying to

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Speaker 4: make war on the alien races. And it was a

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Speaker 4: big critique of of Margaret Thatcher.

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Speaker 2: And I'm assuming it's always taken in that respect every

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Speaker 2: time it's played today, correct, that's right.

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Speaker 4: They never have to put out press releases to say, hey,

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Speaker 4: this is a satire. If you think that these are

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Speaker 4: the good guys, you misunderstand the setting. Please don't come

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Speaker 4: to our events in Nazi regalia. They never have to

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Speaker 4: do that.

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Speaker 1: It's like, I'm a big fan of Warhammer and its messages.

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Speaker 1: I'm also for austerity measures every time they come.

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Speaker 2: I love austerity. It's like Monopoly was originally a work

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Speaker 2: of satire that was making fun of you know how

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Speaker 2: America operates, and Parker Brothers took it over, and we're like,

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Speaker 2: what if instead? Like what if instead that was the

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Speaker 2: good guy. It's like how Rocky changed from the first

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Speaker 2: one where he's like poor and then in the fourth

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Speaker 2: one he's like driving a Lamborghini and like the richest

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Speaker 2: man in America. They're just like, this is actually more fun, right,

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Speaker 2: got to catch up. We're the best, we do good work.

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Speaker 2: What number one we are? And it turns out we are?

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Speaker 2: What is something? Let's stick with you, Colin that you

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Speaker 2: think is underrated? Underrated or you can start with overrated?

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Speaker 4: Can know, well, I'll stick here. I pas I think

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Speaker 4: are over rated?

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Speaker 2: M Yeah, I like I like it?

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Speaker 4: But why does it have like why not have a

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Speaker 4: stout sometimes? Why not have a guinness to do our

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Speaker 4: our irish subject here? Why not? Uh, why not have

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Speaker 4: a cider or a sour?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 4: Why does it always have to be a you know,

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Speaker 4: a triple hate hazy imperial I p a.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bloods taste buds.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it felt like I feel like

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Speaker 1: in the beginning of it, it was like the hack

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Speaker 1: for dudes whose partners are like, don't drink so much

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Speaker 1: at the bar, like I'm just having beers and it's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm having these like nine percent I p as trying

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Speaker 1: to stop me. And then like that kind of became

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Speaker 1: like the reason to drink I PAS, and I was

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Speaker 1: like for me, I was like, this ship is no man,

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Speaker 1: this is too happy for daddy. I can't have this,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm not this is not hitting my taste buds, right,

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I feel like it's it's it's coming back around.

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Speaker 1: I feel like every in l A there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of triple hazy I p as that people are triple hazy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I was one of the people who's always checking

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Speaker 2: out the alcohol by volume and being like I think

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna like this one that's twelve the alcohol content

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Speaker 2: of a whiskey. Right. But yeah, and now I don't

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Speaker 2: drink anymore as a constant wants and the like hop waters.

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Speaker 2: I do enjoy the hop waters. Yeah, I just discovered.

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Speaker 2: It's amazing. Yeah, the like hoppy quencher whatever cool that

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Speaker 2: it's delicious. It's like the hoppy becomes tropical to a

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Speaker 2: point when you drink it. That's what I love about it.

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Speaker 2: That's that's right. How about you, George, what's something that

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Speaker 2: you think is underrated?

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna go with two TV shows that were cut

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Speaker 5: before they were done. I gotta say, Freaks and Geeks

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Speaker 5: and My so called Life, Okay, like gotta go to

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Speaker 5: like the youth angst people who are just about to

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Speaker 5: launch their careers in super big ways. Maybe they had

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Speaker 5: to like cut because they were all offered amazing in

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Speaker 5: amazing other places.

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Speaker 2: Casting was too good. It was good.

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Speaker 5: It was like, here's these amazing people who yes, of

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Speaker 5: course they went on to amazing things. But the shows

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Speaker 5: were so good. I identified with so many of them,

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Speaker 5: especially like the ma athletes in Freaking I with that kid,

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Speaker 5: so it was like, you're you strumming my life with

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Speaker 5: your fingers.

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Speaker 2: Stuff like that with your song. Yeah yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: like this is me.

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Speaker 5: I feel see. So I missed those that.

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Speaker 4: Whole erahead shows I got, like Firefly, Arrested Development, so

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Speaker 4: many good shows that got killed before their time.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm waiting for the reboots on those shows. So

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Speaker 5: can you make it that happen? You all live in LA,

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Speaker 5: so just like write the script and like.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, you know, we're kind of we have a

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Speaker 1: problem with the reboots in LA right now.

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Speaker 2: It's too much.

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Speaker 1: It's at the expense of letting new things be talked

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Speaker 1: about all the time.

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Speaker 2: This one's geeks and freaks. Oh, we're actually for grounding

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Speaker 2: the geeks.

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Speaker 4: It's starting very sad old Jason Siegel as a burnt

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Speaker 4: out high school teacher and then.

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Speaker 2: Not so busy Phillips these days are we She's so good?

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Speaker 2: And uh, girls five eva. Oh, Phillips is so good

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Speaker 2: and girls five eva. If people haven't seen that. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I came into this episode thinking that we were surely

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Speaker 2: almost out of I P and now not just the

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Speaker 2: talk of the i pas, but we've got freaking geeks reboot.

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Speaker 2: The my so called life Warhammer only has one film

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Speaker 2: I think, is that right?

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Speaker 4: Henry Cavill's working on it. Actually he's trying to make

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Speaker 4: it a whole thank.

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Speaker 2: God, So fuck. I was hoping we could option that

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Speaker 2: first person.

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Speaker 1: With that idea, I just go to bookstores, and I

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Speaker 1: just try and get the rights to everything I see

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Speaker 1: on the shelf.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of how studios do. Kid, what are you

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Speaker 2: reading there? You know who has the rights to that?

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Speaker 2: All right, Calvin and hold George with something you think

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Speaker 2: is overrated?

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Speaker 5: Oh, people are gonna come at me. I'm gonna have

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Speaker 5: to say pickleball?

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Speaker 2: Well, hold on, how old do you think our audience is?

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Speaker 5: Now?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I know the grandparents out there might

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Speaker 1: be getting mad at it. I feel like younger people

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Speaker 1: who like pickleball aren't as militant.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, is it take? Is it? Like? Is it

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Speaker 2: everywhere in Seattle too?

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Speaker 5: I mean it's encroaching on my tennis courts and we

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Speaker 5: have to have some words, so like a surist, so

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Speaker 5: you know, off my lawn slash tennis court.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Is there a lot of a lot of tension between

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Speaker 1: the tennis players and then the encroaching pickleballers who are like.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to use a third of this, can you go?

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Speaker 5: I mean they are my moral enemies.

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Speaker 1: I mean yeah, okay to say so right, okay, good

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Speaker 1: to know, good to know.

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Speaker 2: Just if you're not athletic enough to play tennis, they

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Speaker 2: have doubles, which is like you can play doubles without

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Speaker 2: moving around very much. Yeah, exactly like doubles.

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Speaker 5: I could teach you, but i'd have.

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Speaker 2: To charge that. What I have to say, thank you?

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Speaker 2: How about you calm? What's something you think is underrated?

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Speaker 4: I don't know if this is true in California, where

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Speaker 4: you all are from, but around most of the country,

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Speaker 4: I feel like winter is underrated.

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Speaker 2: Mmmm.

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Speaker 4: People don't like being cold.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 4: Driving in like ice and slush kind of sucks.

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Speaker 2: I get it.

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Speaker 4: But also, you get to you get to wear cool jackets.

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Speaker 4: I'm a sucker for a cool jacket. You get to

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Speaker 4: have a sweater, you you, You just get to have

385
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,040
Speaker 4: more variety. Know, I was wearing a T shirt and

386
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 4: shorts every day. I like being able to switch it up.

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00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 4: I think fires are really cool. They're too hot in

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Speaker 4: the summer. There's nothing like sit out on the porch

389
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,680
Speaker 4: on a cold day with a hot drink, like some

390
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 4: winter experiences are unparalleled.

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Speaker 2: And you are now singing miles of lift with you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah right now, I have tears coming

393
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Speaker 1: down my face.

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Speaker 4: And what's the coolest jacket you on?

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Speaker 2: Myles? Oh? In here now? I don't have it. I'm

396
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 2: I have a look.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, which the

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00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,320
Speaker 1: average temperature throughout the year is basically like eighty five degrees,

399
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,920
Speaker 1: you know, like essentially, and I since I was a kid,

400
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,520
Speaker 1: I always yearned for seasons. So whenever I have the

401
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 1: chance to go somewhere, like I mean, we might have

402
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 1: to go this place at this time here it's pretty cold,

403
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,399
Speaker 1: I'm like, yes, yes, yes, I want to wear a jacket.

404
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:34,439
Speaker 2: I want to know cold.

405
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't have one, Like I'm really proud of

406
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 1: to be honest, I'm like, I want to get a

407
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: nice winter coat, but that's just there's no need for

408
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 1: that in La so I you know, I'll just get

409
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:48,640
Speaker 1: yelled at for buying another jacket I'm not going to use.

410
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,160
Speaker 1: But I'm I love a jacket, I love a scarf.

411
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: I love outside in the cold. It's all very yeah,

412
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan. And it like it to your point,

413
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 1: when the weather, you know, like just like when it's hot,

414
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 1: there are activities you have to do because it's so hot,

415
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,960
Speaker 1: and you socialize differently when the weather's super hot, and

416
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: I think in the cold, it's very similar too, and

417
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 1: I yeah, I love that.

418
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 2: I love that.

419
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Speaker 1: I love winter. It's properly rated. But yes, I feel

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Speaker 1: like we should embrace it even further.

421
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 4: Hell yeah, hell two coolest jackets. I got an orange

422
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 4: bomber jacket like brown accents and some like reflectors on it, okay,

423
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 4: and then a Alaska Airlines blue trench coat raincoat hooded.

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Speaker 2: I think a parka kind of thing.

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00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 4: It's it's more like a business, like a like a

426
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 4: not quite parka okay, but like you can work with

427
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:39,760
Speaker 4: the soup, do you could work?

428
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? Oh wow, aren't we doing well?

429
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 4: My my my grandfather flew for a Asca Alaska Airlines,

430
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 4: uh and so I had some connections and got one

431
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 4: of their surplus like uniform jackets.

432
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 1: Was that like really a thing where you're like, hey,

433
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: can I get that jacket? Or you just like came

434
00:22:57,920 --> 00:22:59,320
Speaker 1: up on you like they're not going to miss this

435
00:22:59,400 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: might it was?

436
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 4: It was the first one. So for a long time

437
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,720
Speaker 4: I've wanted like a nice raincoat. I have like ones

438
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 4: that you can wear with a T shirt or whatever,

439
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 4: but we wearing like a big poofy rain jacket with

440
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 4: like a button down shirt and a tie, like you

441
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,639
Speaker 4: kind of feel like a fool. And I wanted to

442
00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 4: the nice and they're all like two thousand bucks, and

443
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 4: it was or they didn't look very nice, like they

444
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 4: weren't rain jackets, they weren't waterproof, they didn't have a hood.

445
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 4: And I've been complaining to this about about this, to

446
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 4: George actually for like months.

447
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 5: And no, no years years.

448
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,880
Speaker 4: At one they were getting on in Alaska Airlines flight

449
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 4: together and I'm like, that jacket, That's what I want.

450
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 4: And then and then I was like, how do I

451
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,240
Speaker 4: get one of those jackets? And George said, I don't know.

452
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,159
Speaker 4: I want you to email the CEO or something. And

453
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 4: then I thought, wait a minute, Yeah, my grandpa used

454
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,119
Speaker 4: to fly. Maybe I just do email the CEO. And

455
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 4: I said, hey, my grandpa used to fly for you,

456
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. Can you guys help me out?

457
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:52,960
Speaker 2: And they do hear, mister Airlines, really, I write to

458
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 2: you today.

459
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 5: And I was just saying that to like get him

460
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 5: to stop talking about it.

461
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's just email the ceo. CEO. Yeah, by George,

462
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 2: you do have quite an idea. All right, let's let's

463
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: uh take a quick break and we're going to come

464
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 2: back and we're going to talk about the future of

465
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 2: our former democracy and uh, you know how we could

466
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: maybe change a couple of things. We'll be right back

467
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: and we're back. So George Colin, like I said, the

468
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 2: podcast is really good. You kind of start out talking

469
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:46,880
Speaker 2: about this idea that we are super accustomed to this

470
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: one feature of our political process that doesn't need to

471
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 2: be this way. And in fact, when other countries have

472
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 2: changed this feature, they've been and much happier, not one

473
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 2: a plus is across the board, as that will never

474
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: be the case with politics, but much happier and more functional.

475
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,680
Speaker 2: But I did just want to like start out by

476
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,719
Speaker 2: asking why now everything seems to be going so well

477
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 2: with our current political system. No, I mean when when

478
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 2: our conversation was starting out, you know, we don't want

479
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 2: to spend all our time talking about how things bad,

480
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,679
Speaker 2: because I think most of our listeners know that, But

481
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,719
Speaker 2: we did start out in the place of we're facing

482
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: an election where the stakes are kind of more of

483
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 2: the same or burn it all down in fascism, and

484
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 2: you know, you guys even pointed out that, like our

485
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: current situation is terrifying to people in other countries, like

486
00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 2: the assassination attempts, the multiple yes, yeah, you know, the

487
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: politicizing of those assassination attempts and just you know, the

488
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: rhetoric is all pretty scary. But are you what are

489
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: you hearing from people who are kind of keeping one

490
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 2: eye on our current electoral politics.

491
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 5: I think everyone understands that there are some huge challenges,

492
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 5: and yet we don't really have the imagination to think

493
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 5: about how to solve these problems. Like we feel stuck

494
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,199
Speaker 5: and all we can talk about is like, get this

495
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,399
Speaker 5: one person elected and somehow that'll save our democracy. No

496
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 5: one believes that, but we're kind of grasping for straws

497
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 5: in terms of what do we actually do to get

498
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 5: out of this this vicious cycle that we're in. Maybe

499
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 5: one quick aside in terms of the origin story, like

500
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 5: we're really talking about our electoral system, how we cast

501
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 5: our ballots and how those ballots are translated into seats.

502
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,919
Speaker 5: This all started in terms of our American electoral system

503
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 5: well before we were even a country, Like we have

504
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 5: to go way back to twelve fifteen. Ah, yes, yes,

505
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 5: twelve fifteen is a signing of the Magna Cardo where

506
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 5: King John of England see just a little bit of

507
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 5: control to this new parliament. Essentially the English aristocracy, Like

508
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 5: you know, he relied on them for tax dollars to

509
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 5: fight these foreign wars, and they kind of got fed

510
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 5: up with having all their money taken away to fight

511
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 5: a war that they didn't necessarily believe in, and so

512
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 5: they demanded some power. Magna carta get signed no more

513
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 5: absolute monarchy. They started elections in twelve sixty five using

514
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 5: essentially what we now know as a winner take all

515
00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:30,760
Speaker 5: system where you select one top one wins, and we

516
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 5: largely have not changed that system since that time. We

517
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 5: as us, as we were a former British colony, we

518
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 5: essentially inherited all of those British English systems, like the

519
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 5: legal system, it's a British British common law system. The

520
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 5: electoral system is the same, and so we've never really had.

521
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 2: To be fair. We did get rid of the whigs,

522
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: that's true. The barristers don't do that anyway.

523
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 5: But I mean there's some things we should have kept

524
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 5: because that was cool.

525
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, the lawyers wouldn't be total jackasses.

526
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: If you're like dude, I gotta sorry, sorry, I'm not

527
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:07,919
Speaker 2: going to be.

528
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 5: That would definitely make it more fun for sure, and

529
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 5: so you know, I think what we have to do

530
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 5: is start to allow ourselves to imagine other options. There

531
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 5: are other countries, as you said, that have become democracies

532
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 5: since we had you know, since we've expanded the franchise

533
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 5: and thought about these challenges of how do we do

534
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 5: other than just elect a delegate to tell the king

535
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,880
Speaker 5: how we don't like a SAX policy. Now we're trying

536
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 5: to think about Okay, now that the franchise has expanded,

537
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 5: well beyond just men with lots of property to lots

538
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 5: of different people, and so you can't have a one

539
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 5: size fits all approach to representation. All these other countries

540
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 5: have picked something else that allows for that representation, for

541
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 5: minority groups across the board to have real representation, and

542
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 5: so being able to give ourselves permission to get beyond

543
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 5: our American exceptionalism and say we have things to learn

544
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 5: from other places, other people, other societies. Why don't we

545
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 5: understand what choices they had and what decisions they made.

546
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very American to do the winner take all.

547
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: Like American's most comfortable in a casino. You know, we

548
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: love a casino. We love a story that makes it

549
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 2: a line I put people putting it all on the

550
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,239
Speaker 2: line one in a million, and we just follow the

551
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 2: one person out of a million who actually wins to

552
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 2: tell ourselves that. But yeah, we love high stakes stories,

553
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: right and yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt Colin.

554
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 4: Oh well good, Well, so so zooming in on like

555
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 4: some of the problems. So we all know the electoral

556
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 4: college sucks. We're not going to talk about that so

557
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,000
Speaker 4: much unless we want to. But talking about it.

558
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: On that idea already.

559
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're ready for some alternatives, man, right, But when.

560
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 4: We talk about electing people of the Congress or your state

561
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 4: legislature or your city council, I think most folks, most

562
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 4: folks know jerry mandering is bad. Maybe you don't know

563
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 4: like the details of how it works, but you know

564
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 4: it's manipulating the lines, manipulating the systems to get the

565
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 4: outcomes that you want. People are concerned about that, and

566
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 4: folks are concerned about this idea of polarization that are

567
00:30:09,560 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 4: two sides are getting further apart and they're starting to

568
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 4: hate each other. But there's not really many thoughtful ways

569
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 4: about how to grapple these problems. We just say, oh,

570
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 4: we should elect more moderates, Like we just need to

571
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 4: find a pace to compromise more at the middle. We

572
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 4: need to draw the lines better. But all of these

573
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 4: ideas are like kind of abstract, they're maybe not actually good.

574
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 4: Maybe electing more moderates actually doesn't lead to more people

575
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 4: feeling like your voices are heard. And you know, gerrymandering

576
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 4: is kind of a reality. Like democrats and progressives tend

577
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 4: to live in cities, People of color tend to live

578
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 4: in cities. More conservative white folks, working class folks often

579
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 4: live in rural areas. Like, you can only manipulate the

580
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 4: lines so much. And so if those are the problems

581
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 4: that you want to solve, you can't just do the

582
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 4: current thing that we're doing better. The current thing that

583
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 4: we're doing is the problem that leads to all of

584
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 4: those outcomes, Like we have to come up with something different.

585
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: And that's kind of what we're trying to explore in

586
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 4: the podcast, is if we wanted to explore from a

587
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,479
Speaker 4: totally different starting point how to conduct elections and how

588
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 4: to build our government, how can we make some of

589
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 4: those problems obsolete?

590
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 2: Right?

591
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: Like, you know, I'm always struck when I was listening

592
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,719
Speaker 1: to the podcast, and when we were talking on our

593
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: yesterday's episode, just sort of given what our options are

594
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: in the United States and how a lot of people

595
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 1: don't fit under you know, the these gigantic umbrellas of

596
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 1: just either of these parties, right, and the discourse or

597
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 1: the rhetoric we hear so much is like, you know,

598
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: you have this sacred right to vote, you know, and

599
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: you can vote, and you're able to vote, and that's sacred.

600
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: But you know, as listening to your show, the other

601
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 1: part of this that I feel like we don't talk

602
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: about is what about do we have a right to

603
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: be represented? Because it's one thing to say, here's the

604
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: fucking menu, which one do you want? And you're like, well, actually,

605
00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: according to my diet restrictions, I've none of these. Actually

606
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: is there something else, like no, sorry, so you can have,

607
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,840
Speaker 1: you know, some kind of terrible reaction to what's on offer,

608
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: or just not not engage into the in the process

609
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: at all. What I mean is that something like we

610
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: should really be thinking about is that it's not just

611
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: about our ability that we can cast a vote, but

612
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: that we also need to have some We should have

613
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: the right to have our own beliefs or values, represented

614
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: in the people that we do ultimately send to Washington

615
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: to legislate.

616
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 5: Absolutely, George, Yeah, yeah, I was gonna say that, just

617
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 5: to build off of that. The challenge of a winner,

618
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 5: take all system as it relates to folks of color

619
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 5: is that our options are very limited. We have this

620
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 5: Voting Rights Act, landmark piece of legislation that obviously people

621
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 5: died to get past, and it's been interpreted that the

622
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,560
Speaker 5: only way that folks of color in particular, or other

623
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 5: minority groups that can have representation under this or take

624
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 5: all system is when we have when we can draw

625
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,280
Speaker 5: majority minority districts, And that kind of makes sense at

626
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,240
Speaker 5: some level, like Okay, you put a lot of like

627
00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 5: minded folks together into a district and they are more

628
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 5: than fifty percent, they get representation. But ironically that requires segregation,

629
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 5: and do we want segregation as a means to an

630
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 5: end in order to achieve better political representation? So I

631
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 5: think it's really challenging to have that, as you mentioned,

632
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 5: the right to vote, when that doesn't necessarily translate into

633
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 5: real representation.

634
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 2: Now it depends on how intricately you draw those lines

635
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 2: when you're jerrymandering. We can really right, I'm really good

636
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 2: at tracing, very fine.

637
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 4: There's also like two different dimensions of representation that we lack.

638
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 4: I mean there's a lot that we lack. Well, there's

639
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 4: two big ones. So one is just if you want

640
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 4: to buy like that we live in a two party system.

641
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 4: We don't like we want to envision something else, but

642
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 4: like that's the world we live in today. And you know,

643
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 4: there's millions of Republicans in California who effectively have no representation.

644
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 4: Their vote for president doesn't count because we know a

645
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 4: Democrat's gonna win. Their vote for governor largely doesn't count

646
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 4: for the most part. The members of Congress and state

647
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 4: legislature like it doesn't matter, like we already know in

648
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 4: advance a Democrat's gonna win those seats, And the exact

649
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:26,560
Speaker 4: same thing is true for Democrats in Texas and Alabama,

650
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 4: in Mississippi and Missouri. There's so many folks who just

651
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 4: know five years in advance, I'm not going to elect

652
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: someone who I care about at any level of government.

653
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,560
Speaker 4: So of course people are like tuning out and not participating.

654
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,760
Speaker 4: But you actually have the same problem sort of within

655
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 4: the parties. So like I live in Washington State, I

656
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 4: know ahead of time, a Democrat's gonna win governor and Congress,

657
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 4: everything that was just saying. But as a result, that

658
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 4: means the November election, even if you're a Democrat in

659
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 4: Washington doesn't really matter because you know the Democrats going

660
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 4: to win. The election that really matters is the primary,

661
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 4: you know, a few months earlier, that picks which Democrat

662
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 4: is going to win. And primary elections are mostly older, wealthier,

663
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 4: wider folks, so you end up having a teeny tiny

664
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 4: subset of the population pick the one option everyone else

665
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 4: has to choose from in November. And so like in Washington,

666
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 4: we have seven Democratic members of Congress. Six of them

667
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 4: I would say, come from sort of the moderate Hakeem Jeffreys,

668
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,359
Speaker 4: Nancy Pelosi wing of the party, and one of them

669
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 4: comes from sort of the AOC Bernie Sanders wing, even

670
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 4: though consistently the Bernie Sanders wing of the party is

671
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 4: about half of all the Democrats in Washington state, so

672
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 4: those people aren't represented either.

673
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:44,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the critiques I've heard from like a more

674
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 2: representative system, well one of them is like, yeah, it

675
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 2: might work for those like small homogeneous European nations, but America, like,

676
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: you know, America has racism, so how could that work here?

677
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 2: Which is a terrible argument, But it's especially interesting that

678
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: you are drawing on Northern Ireland being the example, because Yeah,

679
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: I think it would just be instructive for people to

680
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: hear about sort of the context of civil rights in

681
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 2: Northern Ireland.

682
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'd be happy to start. I first started thinking

683
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 5: about Northern Ireland. Actually not well. I guess when I

684
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 5: was a kid growing up during the time of the

685
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 5: troubles in Northern Ireland. I just watched TV and I

686
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 5: just thought, Wow, white folks hating on white folks, Like,

687
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 5: I don't get it, Like, what did they do that

688
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 5: makes them so angry? Fast forward? I remember reading this

689
00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 5: kind of mostly born report that a colleague organization of

690
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 5: ours came up with that was making the case for

691
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 5: pro poorsh representation, and they basically it was like two

692
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,839
Speaker 5: lines that said, when communities don't have any recourse to

693
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 5: have any voice whatsoever in policy, their only option in

694
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 5: most times is political violence. And that's what happened in

695
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 5: Northern Ireland, and that was resolved largely through power sharing

696
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 5: that included a change to the electoral system as part

697
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 5: of the nineteen ninety eight agreement, and I thought, oh,

698
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 5: what I remember a big to do about Senator George

699
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 5: Mitchell and President Clinton at the time leaning in and

700
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 5: getting folks to put down their arms and to come

701
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,800
Speaker 5: to an agreement. But it was kind of like a revelation, like, actually,

702
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,320
Speaker 5: there's so much to learn from and as we started

703
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,279
Speaker 5: to kind of dig deeper, and in the end we

704
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 5: ended up bringing a bunch of our colleagues to Ireland

705
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,759
Speaker 5: and Northern Ireland to observe the elections earlier this year.

706
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 5: The parallels between our societies are so astounding that we

707
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 5: essentially are both the creations of English settler colonialism. At

708
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 5: some point, the English beat the socks off of the

709
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 5: Irish elite, they fled, and basically they started. The English

710
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 5: started sending tens of thousands of people to Northern Ireland,

711
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 5: to this region called Ulster, who essentially populated and control

712
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 5: it because they needed to have this buffer the back door,

713
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 5: to prevent France and Spain from attacking from the backside

714
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 5: and so setling colonialism. They had all this manipulation, using

715
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 5: gerrymandering and limiting the franchise to essentially create one party

716
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 5: rule for fifty years, and then the result was a

717
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 5: civil rights movement in the late sixties early seventies that

718
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 5: really started to make the case of we need housing,

719
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 5: we need jobs, and we need one person, one vote.

720
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 5: And so going there and being able to see mural

721
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 5: after mural and statues of Frederick Douglass, famous anti slavery

722
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,399
Speaker 5: activists who actually traveled to Ireland during the time of

723
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 5: what we know as the potato famine, they call it

724
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 5: the Great Hunger, Great starvation, and talked about the parallels

725
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 5: between the treatment of African Americans in American slavery and

726
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 5: the treatment of Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland. And so

727
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 5: I just thought, wow, there are so many things that

728
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 5: are just like parallel track that we should see. Did

729
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 5: how did they actually resolve their deep, deep polarization.

730
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 4: And their civil rights movement didn't just result in Oh,

731
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: they got granted rights because they marched in the streets,

732
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:20,919
Speaker 4: like just like in ours riot, police were marshaled against them.

733
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 4: You had militia groups formed to you know, throw rocks,

734
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 4: fire hoses were spread. It just it wasn't It was

735
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 4: not a peaceful process. And what we saw in the

736
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 4: late nineteen sixties early nineteen seventies is very similar what

737
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 4: we're seeing in the US today, which is this increasing

738
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 4: rate of political violence, of folks feeling like they're not

739
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 4: heard of, folks marching in protest and counter protests to

740
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:50,360
Speaker 4: each other, not just exchanging ideas, but exchanging bullets, getting

741
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 4: into fights, there being this ramp up of political violence.

742
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,839
Speaker 4: And it's really familiar the parallels in which the sort

743
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 4: of political dynamics mirror what we're feeling a lot of today.

744
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 2: And that preceded what's known as the Troubles, right or

745
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 2: that was the Troubles, and then it kind of turned

746
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 2: to open warfare in the seventies and into the eighties, right, Yeah,

747
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 2: And so the system that you're describing came together in

748
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 2: the aftermath of this horrible kind of civil war that

749
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: happened in the streets of Northern Ireland. And so I

750
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,879
Speaker 2: want I want to just kind of get into how

751
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: that system could be transferred to the US. Next. Let's

752
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: take a let's take a quick break, and we'll be

753
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:47,160
Speaker 2: right back, and we're back. We're back, and so yeah,

754
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 2: I just wanted to hear kind of from you guys

755
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:54,040
Speaker 2: what your vision is for how that system that is

756
00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:59,919
Speaker 2: currently a representation, a representative democracy like how that could

757
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:02,680
Speaker 2: take hold in the United States.

758
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 5: Just let me throw one quick historical footnote, then I'll

759
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:09,800
Speaker 5: turn over to Colin. Actually, their implementation of what Colin

760
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,239
Speaker 5: will refer to shortly actually started in nineteen twenty one

761
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,880
Speaker 5: Northern Ireland, and as they were partitioning Northern Ireland away

762
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 5: from the South, which then became the Irish Free State.

763
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 5: Basically the British said, okay, well, why don't we agree

764
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 5: as part of this end of this war with the Irish,

765
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 5: that both sides will have some form of power sharing

766
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 5: built into their systems because both sides have minorities that

767
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 5: they wanted to protect. Northern Ireland gets rid of it

768
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 5: as soon as they can, because they see the writing

769
00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 5: on the wall. They're like, one party control, let's do it.

770
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 5: Ireland actually keeps it for a full hundred years, and

771
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 5: that's still the system that they use today. So actually,

772
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 5: in nineteen ninety eight when they actually re implemented it,

773
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,880
Speaker 5: something that they actually had for about roughly ten years

774
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 5: beginning in the nineteen twenties. So I'll kick it or column.

775
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 4: Well, and we'll come back to the sort of forgotten

776
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 4: history question in a moment too. So the system that

777
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:09,880
Speaker 4: they use in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland

778
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 4: is a system of proportional representation, so called because each

779
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:16,399
Speaker 4: segment of the population has the power to win their

780
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 4: fair share their proportion in government. So if Irish Republicans,

781
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: who are different from US Republicans, they want to join

782
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 4: the Republic of Ireland, Irish Republicans or Irish Nationalists win

783
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: thirty three percent of the vote, they're going to win

784
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 4: about one in three seats in Parliament. And what you

785
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,840
Speaker 4: might have it happen is you might have say, forty

786
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,359
Speaker 4: percent of the vote go to Irish Unionists, folks who

787
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:43,600
Speaker 4: like being part of Great Britain. Maybe forty percent of

788
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 4: the vote goes to Irish nationalists, and then another twenty

789
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 4: percent of the vote goes to people who say, oh,

790
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 4: we don't really care about that, we care about jobs,

791
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 4: or we care about housing, and then that ends up

792
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 4: being the makeup of your parliament. And in terms of

793
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 4: what they could look like in the US, it's interesting.

794
00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:01,160
Speaker 4: So there are there's a path to get it here.

795
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 4: There's an act that's been introduced into Congress every year

796
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,440
Speaker 4: since twenty seventeen, the Fair Representation Act, that would just

797
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 4: move the US congressional seat system to that system. So

798
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 4: instead of electing, you know, instead of Massachusetts electing ten Democrats,

799
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 4: they would probably elect six or seven Democrats and three

800
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 4: or four Republicans. And instead of you know, Alabama electing

801
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 4: all Republicans, they would elect you know, two Republicans and

802
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 4: a Democrat or whatever whatever the population might be, and

803
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 4: you could have these smaller chunks breakthrough. But what's really

804
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 4: interesting is that the specific version that they use that

805
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 4: is proposed for this bill, that they use in Northern Ireland,

806
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 4: it's a form of ranked choice voting, and I say

807
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 4: a form of rank choice voting, because a lot of

808
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 4: folks might have heard of our CV rank voice voting.

809
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 4: But there's a bunch of different ways to do it.

810
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 4: The way they do it in Minneapolis is different than

811
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 4: the way to do it in Maine, which is different

812
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,439
Speaker 4: than the way to do it in New York, which

813
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 4: is different than the way that they do it in Ireland.

814
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 4: But back in the nineteen tens, twenties, thirties, forties, cities

815
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 4: in the US actually use this Irish version of proportional

816
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 4: ranks choice voting. Cities like New York City, Cincinnati, and

817
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 4: Cleveland Sacramento in California, and you saw again back in

818
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 4: the forties at the height of Jim Crow, well before

819
00:44:21,040 --> 00:44:26,360
Speaker 4: the Civil Rights movement, you saw black communists from Manhattan

820
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,600
Speaker 4: get elected to the New York City Council. And that's

821
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:32,280
Speaker 4: just sort of it's hard to imagine today, let alone

822
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 4: during the Red Scare.

823
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:37,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is. We always talk about the way

824
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:41,839
Speaker 2: that these facts that aren't part of the system as

825
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: currently constructed get just memory hold from history and kind

826
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 2: of erased from history. So that's super interesting.

827
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: And you said that, someone told be like, what is

828
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,080
Speaker 1: that from a marvel like reality or black this is

829
00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,480
Speaker 1: like Manhattan is a city councils.

830
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's real. That's real in the context of

831
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 2: racial justice and equity like in the US. Like when

832
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 2: listening to your show, I was thinking about we had

833
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:18,280
Speaker 2: a lot of energy behind that cause in twenty twenty,

834
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,200
Speaker 2: but we it feels like we no longer have the

835
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:25,799
Speaker 2: attention of the mainstream Democratic party right now, and you know,

836
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 2: having a party that is focused on that cause and

837
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: is always there even if you know they're not the

838
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 2: majority in power, but they're always being represented. Could it

839
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: like that that's just a thing that I had taken

840
00:45:43,239 --> 00:45:47,160
Speaker 2: for granted as like impossible, and that that would just

841
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:50,439
Speaker 2: be amazing to have that, like you know, there would

842
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:54,880
Speaker 2: always be people doing work for racial justice and equity

843
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 2: in the US, like in government, right does not see

844
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 2: it's wild that is such a basic idea, but like it's.

845
00:46:05,000 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 1: Well yeah, because you think of how like platforms change

846
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 1: every year, like the Democrats platform looks completely different now

847
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: than it in twenty twenty. Like, well, you know, I

848
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: think we use too much like political capital to be

849
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 1: talking about used to form this go round. So let's

850
00:46:18,520 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: put that on the back burner and become fully pro

851
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 1: cop this year, because you know, we kind of were

852
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: a little in our policies can be nebulous at times,

853
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: And I think that's like it really gets to what

854
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: really affects voters and makes people so that you just

855
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:36,800
Speaker 1: get to this point where you're totally disaffected. You become

856
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: ambivalent to the process because you feel like, well, what

857
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 1: about all these other real problems And the only way

858
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,400
Speaker 1: to enter the conversation is this very rigid system where

859
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,400
Speaker 1: unless you're reading from the same hymnal, your chances of

860
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: getting elected aren't really possible. And I think that's really

861
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: a great way for I think that would help a

862
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: lot of people also become much more involved, because what

863
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: we're talking about is something that does give people a

864
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: fair shake where it's like, no, if you have the numbers,

865
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: like you can get a seat at the table. That's

866
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: just it is what it is. And then guess what,

867
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: people will have to have coalition governments where they are

868
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: going to have to work with you to get the

869
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: kinds of majorities you need to achieve certain things.

870
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:16,720
Speaker 2: And I think that's.

871
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,719
Speaker 1: Super I think underrated and underrated thing about it, because

872
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 1: I think most people will just go to the factor like, oh,

873
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: so what you want more Republicans And it's like, well, no,

874
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: that's really not the case. You just want something, you

875
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: want it to actually be representative of what's there. And

876
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: I feel like it sounds like too and just listening

877
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: to the show, like we had a moment when we

878
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: were writing the Constitution where they're like, what if Congress

879
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: looked like everything we see out there in America? And

880
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 1: it's like, and that's like one of those forks in

881
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 1: the roads where our destinies like, and we decided it's

882
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: not that new of a concept, like these are things

883
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,320
Speaker 1: we've been grappling with since the beginning of this country.

884
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 5: Absolutely, there's a few other things that are kind of

885
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 5: mind blowing. When we talked about Ireland, particularly Northern Ireland,

886
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 5: one story that keeps coming up is that whenever we've

887
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 5: talked to folks on the ground there, they kept saying,

888
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 5: you might have some concerns in the US about getting

889
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 5: far right parties elected and taking seats, and that might

890
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,719
Speaker 5: freak some people out, but in many ways that's important

891
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:23,120
Speaker 5: because in the Northern Ireland experience, they saw that there

892
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 5: were people who were shut out of the political system

893
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,560
Speaker 5: that they had no alternative but to be violent. And

894
00:48:28,600 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 5: so when you have people win seats their fair share,

895
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 5: maybe they win one or two in a city council,

896
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,720
Speaker 5: and they have to grapple with balancing the budget, closing

897
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 5: a hospital, dealing with pensions, then it's harder to be

898
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 5: completely anti government when you actually have some power and

899
00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 5: you have to grapple with some collective decisions that you

900
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:53,839
Speaker 5: just can't just throw rocks at at the house. One

901
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 5: other interesting thing that we learned about that kind of

902
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 5: blew my mind is how power sharing was taken to

903
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 5: the logical extreme in both Ireland and to more so

904
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 5: in Northern Ireland. So our winner take all system we

905
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 5: understand it, particularly in our electoral system in terms of

906
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 5: there can only be one winner when you have one

907
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 5: member per district. But when you think about the winner

908
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:23,040
Speaker 5: take all system in terms of legislative governance, we understand like,

909
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 5: if you're the majority party, you get to pick all

910
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 5: the committee chairs. It's like to the winner go the spoils.

911
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 5: That seems obvious to us, right right, That's not how

912
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 5: neither Ireland nor Northern Ireland does it. If you win

913
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,920
Speaker 5: forty percent of seats in the Parliament, you win forty

914
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 5: percent of committee chairs. They have this process it's called

915
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 5: the Dahunt method, whereby it's like the NFL draft. Your

916
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 5: party as like the team gets to pick in a

917
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,439
Speaker 5: particular order which committee chairs you want. So if you're

918
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 5: the first pick, you'll probably get to pick like the

919
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 5: Taxation ways and means committee because it's likely the most

920
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 5: powerful justice as usually second, something like that, and so

921
00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,759
Speaker 5: you just kind of go down the list in terms

922
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 5: of who deserves the next pick. Added to that logical

923
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 5: extreme in terms of Northern Ireland, if once again, if

924
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 5: your party is forty percent of the seats, in parliament,

925
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 5: you get forty percent of the cabinet seats in government

926
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,959
Speaker 5: itself as a way to make sure that everyone has

927
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 5: a fair share. There are critiques in terms of sometimes

928
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,239
Speaker 5: it grinds to a halt because those parties almost never

929
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 5: agree on lots of big things, and so sometimes it

930
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 5: shuts the government down, which is its own problem. But

931
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 5: the idea that they are committed to power sharing in

932
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 5: order for everyone to feel like they have a stake

933
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 5: in governance, that's a really key idea that's really missing

934
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 5: in our debates here in the.

935
00:50:42,440 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 4: US, and it's something that Northern Ireland folks we talked

936
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 4: to kept emphasizing that, like, oh, like there's a lot

937
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 4: of critiques about power sharing this specific model we have

938
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 4: through these how many seats, but the elections being proportional,

939
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:56,480
Speaker 4: like that's a no brainer, Like no one, no one

940
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 4: debates that at all, Like that's obvious.

941
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, yeah, I mean in Project twenty twenty five,

942
00:51:01,239 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: the thing that's scary about it to people is that

943
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 2: they're planning to like clear house and just make all

944
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 2: the cabinet entirely one thing. So that that's interesting. I

945
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 2: feel like maybe after this next presidential administration, there might

946
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 2: be more appetent. It could be the last one, folks,

947
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,200
Speaker 2: but it could be the last election, not for the

948
00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:23,080
Speaker 2: reasons he's saying. But oh yeah, well yeah, go ahead,

949
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 2: Sorry Miles, I interrupted, Oh no, no, no, I was

950
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 2: just saying.

951
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,320
Speaker 1: And also like the visibility right, because I think, especially

952
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: in the United States, we have this version of like

953
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: the amount of extremists there are in the United States,

954
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: you would think, depending on where you're watching news, like

955
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: they're outnumbered.

956
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 2: There's seven billion of these people.

957
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,200
Speaker 1: And it's always interesting to see like when people like

958
00:51:44,239 --> 00:51:47,120
Speaker 1: are like in in Europe when they're having their elections,

959
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, they're far right parties only got like

960
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,400
Speaker 1: a fraction of what people thought they were going to do.

961
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: And I think that's also helps too for people to

962
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: understand like, Okay, there is this group of people that exist,

963
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: but they aren't nearly as large or influential they would

964
00:52:00,640 --> 00:52:03,440
Speaker 1: want you to think, which I think also helps people

965
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: have a little bit of a clear understanding of like

966
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: truly like what we're dealing with in the country in

967
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 1: terms of like who who's sort of like where everyone's

968
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: ideologies sort of lie. Because yeah, I think it's very

969
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 1: easy to sort of obscure that with our media in

970
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: this country and have people kind of thinking like, oh

971
00:52:18,600 --> 00:52:21,279
Speaker 1: my god, like what's all happening, Like what are we

972
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,879
Speaker 1: up against? And yeah, knowing that I think putting being

973
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 1: able to quantify that, I think is a big benefit.

974
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 4: And that's part of the risk of a winner take

975
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 4: all system is you can have a fringe element, right

976
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 4: that wins it all. People forget that. Back in twenty sixteen,

977
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 4: if you looked at Poles, most Republicans didn't actually like

978
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 4: Donald Trump, but they were split between Chris Christy and

979
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 4: Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio and John Kasich and Mitt Romney.

980
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 4: And Romney wasn't running in twenty sixteen, was he? No, No,

981
00:52:49,520 --> 00:52:50,280
Speaker 4: he was not running.

982
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: The spirit anyway, yeah, right, spirit of.

983
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 4: John Huntsman point is like they were the winner take

984
00:52:58,280 --> 00:53:00,919
Speaker 4: all system. Let's a fringe element if they win more

985
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 4: than others in a primary process or whatever, win everything.

986
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 4: Like a portional system caps your ceiling at your actual support,

987
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:12,600
Speaker 4: so you never have a fringe party take over every

988
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 4: chamber of government.

989
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,200
Speaker 2: I do want to just go back to this idea

990
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 2: that you know, it doesn't say anything about two parties

991
00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,920
Speaker 2: or parties of any sort in the in the Constitution,

992
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 2: and yet and like George Washington was like kind of

993
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:30,000
Speaker 2: against parties in general. He was just a downer, didn't

994
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:34,400
Speaker 2: didn't like to party, but he like America just kind

995
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 2: of snapped to a two party system and like kind

996
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: of keeps going back to a two party system and

997
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,000
Speaker 2: like staying in this two party system. And so for me,

998
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:51,040
Speaker 2: that's one of my big questions is like, is there

999
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:57,279
Speaker 2: just something about America and our at the central lie

1000
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 2: at the heart of America where it's like we're we

1001
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:04,719
Speaker 2: are a representative democracy and also the system is completely

1002
00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: designed to keep the dispossessed without power, Like that's been

1003
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:13,360
Speaker 2: the deal kind of from day one, Like when you

1004
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 2: look at the wording of the Constitution and then like

1005
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:19,440
Speaker 2: what who those words actually applied to. I'm just I

1006
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 2: guess that's the big question for me is like how

1007
00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: you know, in the experience of granted, a winner take

1008
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 2: all primary system, but like the primary system of a

1009
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: progressive and widely popular Bernie Sanders, you know, getting a

1010
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,879
Speaker 2: lot of attention and enthusiasm, and then it just kind

1011
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 2: of felt like you were always up against this entrenched machine.

1012
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 2: I'm just curious how you guys, think about the existing

1013
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 2: kind of inertia and money and power of the system

1014
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:02,680
Speaker 2: as it currently exists, and how you could potentially see

1015
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 2: this idea overcoming that overtime.

1016
00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,239
Speaker 4: George, can you mind meld with me real quick? I

1017
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:08,919
Speaker 4: want to say something.

1018
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to French class.

1019
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 2: The name is due Verge. Yes, and I of course

1020
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 2: know what that means. But the listeners, George, and no

1021
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 2: further questions? All right?

1022
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 5: Do Verge was a French philosopher that basically came up

1023
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,240
Speaker 5: with this theorem or this law that basically said, any

1024
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:41,319
Speaker 5: winner take all system is going to end up with

1025
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 5: only two major parties that can contest for power because

1026
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 5: when there is like another faction, another party that tries

1027
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 5: to buy and play within the confines of a winner

1028
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:57,200
Speaker 5: take all system, they almost never win. And if you

1029
00:55:57,840 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 5: try us several times, you'll have to give up, because

1030
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:02,960
Speaker 5: how do you tell people to vote for us if

1031
00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:06,120
Speaker 5: you can never turn their votes into actual seats that

1032
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:07,400
Speaker 5: is actual political power.

1033
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 4: You actually increase the odds that your opponents win, Like

1034
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:15,040
Speaker 4: if Bernie Sanders runs a viable candidacy, that increases odds

1035
00:56:15,080 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 4: Republicans win, so like it just turned. The logical conclusion

1036
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 4: is only have two candidates.

1037
00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like a bad system almost.

1038
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:26,960
Speaker 5: And so you see this playing out in basically the

1039
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:31,840
Speaker 5: UK and the other former British colonies that have kept

1040
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:36,440
Speaker 5: this system. In Canada, there's essentially only like the Conservative

1041
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 5: and the Liberal slash Moderate party that can win ever

1042
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 5: any election. They only have multiple parties because they have

1043
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 5: kind of regional politics of like Quebecqua Separatists that has

1044
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 5: its own political party. But for the most part, nationally

1045
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 5: they are a two party system because they have the

1046
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:56,760
Speaker 5: exact same system that we have. The UK is pretty

1047
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 5: much the same. You have Labor and then you have

1048
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 5: the Tories or concernvatives. Sometimes the Liberal Democrats play that

1049
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:07,480
Speaker 5: kind of in between role, spoiler role, but for the

1050
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 5: most part, du Verget's law plays out very clearly in

1051
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 5: all of these systems. And so being able to start with,

1052
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:19,040
Speaker 5: you know, what is the electoral system that we want

1053
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,200
Speaker 5: for our for our society. Is it something that is

1054
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 5: very simple and that forces a majority even though it

1055
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 5: doesn't reflect the majority interest or do you want to

1056
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:32,000
Speaker 5: make sure that you have a minority representation built in

1057
00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 5: to our electorate? And so by picking a proportional system

1058
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 5: whichever flavor because there's definitely variations on a theme. The

1059
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 5: fact that you will get you know, three, four or

1060
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:47,320
Speaker 5: five parties means that there are coalitions. There is kind

1061
00:57:47,360 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 5: of like a shifting depending on which issue that different

1062
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:54,800
Speaker 5: parties can call us and get legislation passed. So there

1063
00:57:54,840 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 5: is nothing structural or cultural about the US that pushes

1064
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 5: us towards a two point. It is the system that

1065
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 5: pushes us awkwardly into these two camps that don't fit us.

1066
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:09,840
Speaker 4: And actually there's some really interesting political science. I'll give

1067
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 4: the very high level. We can put a link in

1068
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:13,400
Speaker 4: the show notes if you all want, but there's some

1069
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,200
Speaker 4: political science that's been done that shows that effectively, in

1070
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 4: the US right now there are six political parties. There's

1071
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 4: six ideologically consistent and distinct ways of being basically that

1072
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 4: most people subscribe to, and it's just that they're jammed

1073
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 4: into the two parties. Like Alexander Cocosio Ortez said a

1074
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,320
Speaker 4: couple of years ago, in any other country on Earth,

1075
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:36,960
Speaker 4: Joe Biden and I would not be in the same

1076
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 4: political party.

1077
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 5: But in the US we have to be.

1078
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 4: And so when you think about, like, you know, you're

1079
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 4: Mitt Romney, Barry Goldwater, John McCain type folks, and your

1080
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:51,120
Speaker 4: evangelical Christians and your like Mago wing of American Nazis,

1081
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 4: Like they don't actually have anything in common politically. And

1082
00:58:55,480 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 4: it's the same parallels on the left. And so whether

1083
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:02,600
Speaker 4: or not these six parties emerge or they become distinct

1084
00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,120
Speaker 4: factions within the two parties as we have them, there's

1085
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 4: those are probably the coalitions that we would see emerge

1086
00:59:09,120 --> 00:59:11,680
Speaker 4: if we moved to a proportional multi party system.

1087
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: I think the other part about this too is like

1088
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:16,840
Speaker 1: I think at this point, we see that there is

1089
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:17,840
Speaker 1: a way to do it.

1090
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 2: It is being done.

1091
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: We've that we've dabbled in it in the United States before,

1092
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: but right now, in its current form, it seems like intractable,

1093
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:30,560
Speaker 1: like this is it's stuck. And I know when we

1094
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: were speaking a little bit earlier before we even recorded,

1095
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,400
Speaker 1: I remember Jack and I were like, well, how do

1096
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 1: we it? Is it possible? And I felt like you

1097
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: brought up a few good points. Was to think about

1098
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:43,800
Speaker 1: a lot of like the major changes we've had in

1099
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,920
Speaker 1: the in the United States across you know, the storied

1100
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: history of this place, the years preceding those changes, it

1101
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: felt like this is going to be how it is forever,

1102
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 1: and then boom, we have rights. We have universal suffrage,

1103
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,760
Speaker 1: we have civil rights, et cetera. We have marriage equality

1104
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 1: and those those kinds of things. And I think for

1105
01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 1: a lot of the times too, we're also like the

1106
01:00:04,680 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: I feel like the de facto way we speak about

1107
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: it in very early kinds of political conversations when you're

1108
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: younger and getting into it is like it feels everything

1109
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: has to happen from the top down, and when you

1110
01:00:14,160 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: look at the current system, like there's no way these

1111
01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:18,680
Speaker 1: freaks are going to be like, yes, I would like

1112
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: to dilute my power, but it seems like this is

1113
01:00:22,040 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: the kind of thing where we can create upward pressure

1114
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: from a more local level, and that is happening in

1115
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 1: the United States.

1116
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 2: We like to make things about personality and like individualism

1117
01:00:33,440 --> 01:00:36,600
Speaker 2: in the US, and so often the answer is actually structural,

1118
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 2: and we don't like to admit that a lot of

1119
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 2: the times because it doesn't allow for us to be

1120
01:00:42,520 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 2: the heroes of our own narrative.

1121
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: But yeah, so can you sort of just point to

1122
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:50,440
Speaker 1: some examples of like how this is not just like

1123
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: you know, Cincinnati decades ago, which where things like that

1124
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: were happening. But like even in the year of twenty

1125
01:00:57,480 --> 01:01:01,440
Speaker 1: twenty four, there are there are movements being made that

1126
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:05,120
Speaker 1: are approaching something like this that could potentially help you

1127
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,320
Speaker 1: drive the conversation on a national level.

1128
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll start and I'll kick it over to Colin.

1129
01:01:10,240 --> 01:01:12,920
Speaker 5: I think the most exciting thing for folks to watch

1130
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 5: in the twenty twenty four elections, besides the presidential is

1131
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 5: what happens in Portland, Oregon. It's on the five. If

1132
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:22,680
Speaker 5: you'd go north on the five, you get for the Yeah,

1133
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 5: what was really exciting. And this goes to some of

1134
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,000
Speaker 5: the work that we do as an organization More Equitable Democracy.

1135
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 5: We support people of color led groups on transforming our

1136
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,680
Speaker 5: electoral system in order to advance racial justice, and so

1137
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 5: our colleagues there were doing a lot of advocacy work

1138
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,840
Speaker 5: in community of color, trying to bring more resources to

1139
01:01:41,840 --> 01:01:44,960
Speaker 5: their communities, and they always hit like this huge buzz

1140
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 5: saw their city commission. It was a commission whereby there

1141
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 5: was no separate executive branch from the legislative branch. They

1142
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:55,439
Speaker 5: were one and the same. They were all elected at large,

1143
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,240
Speaker 5: so you essentially had to win like a congressional race

1144
01:01:58,320 --> 01:02:00,560
Speaker 5: in order to win a city council seat at that

1145
01:02:00,640 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 5: always favored big moneyed interests, usually of folks who had

1146
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,840
Speaker 5: relationships with developers, and so they understood. We did a

1147
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,600
Speaker 5: lot of research to kind of back this up, that

1148
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 5: breaking up that system was important, but that going to

1149
01:02:12,800 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 5: the most obvious solution in the American kind of context

1150
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 5: is to go from all at large to single member districts,

1151
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:22,120
Speaker 5: just like cut up the city into five equal districts.

1152
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 5: Maybe we'll be able to get two seats out of

1153
01:02:25,720 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 5: the five that are responsive to our community's needs. Those

1154
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 5: communities of color about twenty five percent of the population

1155
01:02:32,520 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 5: in Portland because of a really long anti black history,

1156
01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,360
Speaker 5: there is no one particular area that is heavily people

1157
01:02:39,400 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 5: of color. There isn't the same type of segregation that

1158
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 5: there is in other cities, and so just drawing those

1159
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 5: single member districts was not going to solve any of

1160
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 5: those problems.

1161
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,480
Speaker 4: Into any configurational highlight. Like we said, what if we

1162
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,520
Speaker 4: move from five to seven to nine to twelve to

1163
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 4: fifteen city councilors? You just could not do it.

1164
01:02:56,160 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 5: Not possible. And so that's why we introduced the Irish

1165
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:02,439
Speaker 5: model to them, and they started to think, okay, well,

1166
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:05,600
Speaker 5: if we had a larger district where we elected three,

1167
01:03:06,160 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 5: maybe we can win one or two of those that

1168
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 5: are in neighborhoods that we do a lot of organizing.

1169
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 5: And so what was really exciting was that. And this

1170
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 5: sounds when I say exciting, this will sound boring for

1171
01:03:16,600 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 5: just a second. There was a charter review process. Please

1172
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 5: don't fall asleep. This is not exactlytant.

1173
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 2: Yeah crps baby, that's me all day. We got an

1174
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:30,200
Speaker 2: air horn in there.

1175
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 5: When shorter review process ah awesome, and so baked into

1176
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 5: their charter their constitution was this mandatory about once every

1177
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 5: decade Ish process whereby folks from the community were invited

1178
01:03:44,880 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 5: in to kick the tires of their system, their structures

1179
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,400
Speaker 5: of government, and asked to come up with ideas to

1180
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 5: change it. For ninety nine percent of the time when

1181
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,280
Speaker 5: local governments do this, it's just window dressing. They don't

1182
01:03:57,320 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 5: really mean to invite people to change things. But to

1183
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 5: their credit, everyone understood in Portland, this antiquate system that

1184
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 5: had been designed about more than one hundred years ago

1185
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,960
Speaker 5: wasn't working. So everyone understood something needed to change, and

1186
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:14,600
Speaker 5: so the ability for our partners to organize around a

1187
01:04:14,640 --> 01:04:16,960
Speaker 5: process where people were supposed to be invited in to

1188
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:19,640
Speaker 5: come up with ideas and to really flesh them out.

1189
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,760
Speaker 5: That's what allowed for that deep conversation about what does

1190
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 5: it mean to have an election and have everyone represented?

1191
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 5: How do we integrate or prioritize racial equity within these structures?

1192
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 5: Can a winner take all system ever be equitable? It's

1193
01:04:34,800 --> 01:04:36,920
Speaker 5: kind of like at odds with one another. And so

1194
01:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,400
Speaker 5: that's how they came up with this design of essentially

1195
01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 5: the Irish system. They ran a campaign to support the

1196
01:04:44,400 --> 01:04:47,800
Speaker 5: recommendation that came from that city charter review process, and

1197
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 5: they won fifty seven forty three. This is the first

1198
01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,360
Speaker 5: city that has adopted this for the first major city

1199
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:58,360
Speaker 5: that has adopted this electoral system since New York City

1200
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:00,600
Speaker 5: did in the nineteen thirty So it's been one hundred

1201
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:03,480
Speaker 5: years of that kind of hidden history that it's been

1202
01:05:03,560 --> 01:05:06,960
Speaker 5: kind of outside of our imagination. Colin, do you want

1203
01:05:07,000 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 5: to say any words about like how things are going

1204
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:09,439
Speaker 5: at this point?

1205
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:10,040
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1206
01:05:10,120 --> 01:05:12,439
Speaker 4: Well, Also a lot of folks might be like, well, yeah, okay,

1207
01:05:12,440 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 4: Portland did it, but like I've seen Portland, ya, it's

1208
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 4: crunchy liberal hibbies who developed.

1209
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 2: Damn, Kyle McLoughlin is a good mayor. That's right.

1210
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:25,200
Speaker 4: But if you talk to some of the activists and

1211
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:27,760
Speaker 4: colleagues of ours in Portland, what they would tell you,

1212
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 4: and I think what like looking at the elections also

1213
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 4: tell you is that Portland is like most major cities

1214
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:34,960
Speaker 4: in the US, and that that has not been the

1215
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 4: people winning elections. The city council has largely been the

1216
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,800
Speaker 4: candidate's most preferred by developers and big business. Like George mentioned,

1217
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 4: they are all folks from downtown or west of the river,

1218
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:46,760
Speaker 4: which is where all the really rich people live. Like

1219
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 4: the established political I mean the political establishment that's entrenched

1220
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:55,360
Speaker 4: in Portland is the same as it kind of as anywhere.

1221
01:05:55,720 --> 01:06:00,160
Speaker 4: And you know, one in four Portlanders is a person

1222
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 4: of color. So like, yes, it's pretty white, but it's

1223
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 4: not just like a white utopia like people might think

1224
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 4: it's it is. It is a multiracial community. And if

1225
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:14,120
Speaker 4: Portland can do it, I actually think anywhere can do

1226
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 4: it that at least on the city level. Like the

1227
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:21,120
Speaker 4: four of the five city councilors came out against the

1228
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 4: reform when it was being considered. The former mayor came

1229
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 4: out against it. You know, the Chamber of Commerce came

1230
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 4: out against it, like they were fighting every single established

1231
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:32,439
Speaker 4: interest that existed, and they still managed to win.

1232
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

1233
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,160
Speaker 4: And yeah, now they're doing it for the first time

1234
01:06:35,800 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 4: that they just like made sample ballots public a few

1235
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 4: days ago. And there are some other smaller cities in

1236
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 4: America that are using proportional systems Albany, California, Cambridge, Massachusetts, Minneapolis,

1237
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 4: Minnesota for their Parks and Recreation Board. And there was

1238
01:06:50,680 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 4: one Detroit suburb that used it for a few years.

1239
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 4: Because this is a weird story, but basically, the Obama

1240
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:58,560
Speaker 4: Department of Justice brought a lawsuit that the Trump Department

1241
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:02,640
Speaker 4: of Justice settled, and so under the Obama case, like

1242
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 4: they adopted a proportional system to resolve a Voting Rights

1243
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:08,080
Speaker 4: Act complaint. But the Trump DOOJ said, you only have

1244
01:07:08,120 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 4: to use this system twice and then you can go

1245
01:07:10,040 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 4: back to the old system that violates the Foot and

1246
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 4: Rights Act. So they don't use it anymore. But it's

1247
01:07:15,920 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 4: not too at bats if they can't get it right

1248
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 4: and make it permanent after to it, that's that's right.

1249
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know what we're doing here. Well, guys, Honestly,

1250
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 2: I feel like we could talk to you for days

1251
01:07:29,120 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 2: about this, and I can't wait to listen to the

1252
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 2: next episode of your podcasts that drops here. How many

1253
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:37,880
Speaker 2: two episodes.

1254
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:39,440
Speaker 4: In two of the third drops tomorrow.

1255
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,560
Speaker 2: Third drops tomorrow. So there we go. Everybody should go

1256
01:07:42,640 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 2: check it out. Wonderful having you and we'll have to

1257
01:07:45,120 --> 01:07:48,720
Speaker 2: have you back. Where can people find you, guys and

1258
01:07:49,200 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 2: hear more about all of this?

1259
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 4: So you can go to our website, which is Equitable

1260
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 4: Democracy Org. We have a link to the podcast there

1261
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:59,960
Speaker 4: as well as it's on Apple Podcasts and Spotify words

1262
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:03,280
Speaker 4: you listen. You can also find our organization on Twitter.

1263
01:08:03,360 --> 01:08:07,960
Speaker 4: That's at Equitable Demo Demo on Twitter and at Equitable

1264
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:11,840
Speaker 4: Democracy on Instagram. I'm on Twitter at Colin J.

1265
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 5: Cole.

1266
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 4: That's c O L I N calling like Colin Farrell,

1267
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:16,839
Speaker 4: not like Colon Powell.

1268
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:20,200
Speaker 2: There you go, and you have much more Calin Farrell

1269
01:08:20,280 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 2: vibes than we saying before. Yeah we got on.

1270
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 4: Yeah he's Irish, so it's on brand.

1271
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:28,200
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly.

1272
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 5: How about you George on X George K Chung C

1273
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 5: H E U N G. And definitely check out our

1274
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 5: podcast The Future of Our Former Democracy on Apple Podcasts

1275
01:08:37,280 --> 01:08:39,120
Speaker 5: or wherever you get your podcasts.

1276
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 2: And we will link off to that in the footnotes.

1277
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 2: Is there a work of media that you guys have

1278
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 2: been enjoying.

1279
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,800
Speaker 5: I'll start it's this fairly new couple that is on

1280
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:54,799
Speaker 5: X and TikTok called the It's the Peacocks. It's this couple.

1281
01:08:55,360 --> 01:08:58,280
Speaker 5: Why I think that they're so interesting is that it's

1282
01:08:58,680 --> 01:09:01,479
Speaker 5: the guy is from northern in Ireland and the women's

1283
01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:06,880
Speaker 5: Chinese New Zealander, and they're all about teaching their kids Cantonese,

1284
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:10,080
Speaker 5: which is my parents' language. And the fact that there's

1285
01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:13,280
Speaker 5: a white dude that speaks better Cantonese than I do.

1286
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:15,200
Speaker 5: I feel a little bit of shame because you know,

1287
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,559
Speaker 5: Chinese people, East Asian people in shame. We do shame

1288
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 5: really well.

1289
01:09:19,920 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 2: Number one.

1290
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,320
Speaker 1: Number one is shame baby.

1291
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:26,040
Speaker 5: But there's only been in my life two times that

1292
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 5: I've met a white person that has spoken better Cantonese

1293
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 5: than I do. And for better for worse. They're always

1294
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 5: Mormon missionaries, so God to love them.

1295
01:09:35,439 --> 01:09:37,720
Speaker 2: They they're putting, they're put in that work.

1296
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:39,400
Speaker 5: They put in the work, so good job.

1297
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,679
Speaker 1: That's like when I mean, yeah, like people like white

1298
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 1: people speak Japanese really well, and like they live here.

1299
01:09:44,240 --> 01:09:46,519
Speaker 1: I'm like, what's going on? Like, oh my my parents

1300
01:09:46,560 --> 01:09:49,439
Speaker 1: are missionaries in Japan and that's why I speak Japanese.

1301
01:09:49,479 --> 01:09:52,720
Speaker 5: I'm like, wow, yes, they do the work.

1302
01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about you calling?

1303
01:09:55,000 --> 01:09:56,840
Speaker 4: So I'm not gonna I'm not gonna stick with the

1304
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:59,600
Speaker 4: Warhammer thing. We already talked about the Warhammer books. H

1305
01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:02,160
Speaker 4: But so I watch a lot of long form like

1306
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:05,120
Speaker 4: video essays. Sure, And there's a good one that's sort

1307
01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,800
Speaker 4: of the the a good confluence of a couple of

1308
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 4: my things. It's called People Make Games, and they, you know,

1309
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,400
Speaker 4: do longer form explorations of you know, video game industry,

1310
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 4: board game industry. But they have a video recently called

1311
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 4: the Games behind Your Government's Next War, and they dive

1312
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:24,920
Speaker 4: into how governments around the world are using war games

1313
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:31,160
Speaker 4: and building custom board games basically to test out foreign

1314
01:10:31,200 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 4: policy and wars and oh, well, if if we were

1315
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:38,160
Speaker 4: to mobilize our fleet over here, knowing that we have

1316
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 4: this economic relationship here, you know, Miles Jack, I'm gonna

1317
01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:42,840
Speaker 4: have you go ahead and play China and let's just

1318
01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:45,679
Speaker 4: let's just play a game and simulate what comes out. Yeah,

1319
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:51,559
Speaker 4: And it's this whole massive like government board game industrial complex.

1320
01:10:51,600 --> 01:10:52,400
Speaker 4: It's fascinating.

1321
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, I'm going to check that out. I'm

1322
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: looking at the thumbnail of that right now. I'm definitely

1323
01:10:57,160 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 1: gonna look at that.

1324
01:10:57,920 --> 01:11:02,040
Speaker 2: Yeah wow. Okay, okay, right Miles, where can people find you?

1325
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 2: Is there a work of media that you've been enjoying? Oh?

1326
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: Yes, find me on Twitter and Instagram at Miles of Gray.

1327
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:10,479
Speaker 1: If you like basketball, you can hear Jack and I

1328
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: talk endlessly about the NBA on Miles and Jack got

1329
01:11:12,880 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 1: mad boosties. And if you like ninety Day Fiance, like

1330
01:11:16,840 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 1: I do to blow some steam off of the you know,

1331
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 1: horror that is being on earth at this time, I

1332
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:24,080
Speaker 1: talk about ninety Day Fiance and the other podcast for

1333
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 1: twenty Day Fiance. A tweet I like, is you know

1334
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,600
Speaker 1: the thing I love about like TikTok and stuff is like,

1335
01:11:30,640 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 1: there's so much good recipe sharing, but alongside that you

1336
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:36,560
Speaker 1: get some people who begin to say, like their authorities

1337
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 1: on the kinds of cuisines that might be a little

1338
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 1: bit culturally specific. And this video, I just let me

1339
01:11:42,479 --> 01:11:45,440
Speaker 1: make sure I have the creator's name right. It's from

1340
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: Nathan underscore Ng and it's just a good sort of

1341
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 1: side by side video and I'm just gonna play it

1342
01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 1: because it just kind of sums up like sort of

1343
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:56,480
Speaker 1: the tone on TikTok, but just how sometimes.

1344
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 2: We see these videos. This was also my work of media.

1345
01:12:00,160 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 1: Really, if you're white to the Naked eye, but I

1346
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:05,840
Speaker 1: actually have Asian taste buds, I'm not.

1347
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:07,639
Speaker 4: Sure what that makes me. It makes you a white

1348
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 4: person that likes Asian food.

1349
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:21,920
Speaker 2: Helps I know it may be white, but actually Asian taste.

1350
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:31,680
Speaker 2: What does that say about me? Like ship? All right?

1351
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:36,559
Speaker 2: Tweet I've been enjoying Strange at Strange Harbors, Jeff Saying

1352
01:12:36,600 --> 01:12:40,799
Speaker 2: tweeted is Todd Phillips punk? Is MasterCard a queer? Ally?

1353
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:45,240
Speaker 2: Is this TV show? My friend? I thought that was good,

1354
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:52,120
Speaker 2: Just summation of my internal monologue. Bullseye. You can find

1355
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:55,120
Speaker 2: me on Twitter at Jack Underscore. O'Brien, you can find

1356
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:58,080
Speaker 2: us on Twitter at Daily Zeitgeist. We're at the Daily

1357
01:12:58,200 --> 01:13:00,640
Speaker 2: Zeitgeist on Instagram. We have a Facebook fan page and

1358
01:13:00,680 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 2: a website Daily zey guys dot com, where we post

1359
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 2: our episodes and our footnotes where we went off to

1360
01:13:06,880 --> 01:13:09,040
Speaker 2: the information that we talked about in today's episode, as

1361
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 2: well as a song that we think you might enjoy miles.

1362
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:15,000
Speaker 2: What song do you think people might enjoy it? Uh,

1363
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 2: there's a there's an artist on TD Doci d O

1364
01:13:18,080 --> 01:13:21,200
Speaker 2: E C H I I. And she's a dope MC

1365
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:21,960
Speaker 2: and artist.

1366
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,080
Speaker 1: And you know, top Dog Entertainment always likes to find

1367
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:27,639
Speaker 1: some of the city's best and Doci is no different.

1368
01:13:27,680 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 1: This track is called Nissan Ultima. She's just like a

1369
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:33,280
Speaker 1: great lyricist, has a total sense of humor about like

1370
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:35,680
Speaker 1: her in her lyrics. But is all just because she's

1371
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 1: a great MC. Like you're just like, oh that was

1372
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 1: a bar and funny and just overall.

1373
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:44,240
Speaker 2: Really talented artists. So check this track out by Doci.

1374
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:49,000
Speaker 2: It's Nissan Ultima. Yeah, shout out to Brian ed editor, Yeah,

1375
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:52,679
Speaker 2: get it right right? That all right? Well, The Daily

1376
01:13:53,000 --> 01:13:55,439
Speaker 2: Guys is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from

1377
01:13:55,479 --> 01:13:58,439
Speaker 2: My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio ap Apple podcast or

1378
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. That is going

1379
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 2: to do it for us this morning. We're back this

1380
01:14:04,320 --> 01:14:07,559
Speaker 2: afternoon to tell you what is trending, and we'll talk

1381
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 2: to you all then. Bye bye,