Speaker 1: Pushkin.
Speaker 2: Big Willie is back, and he's traded as larger than life,
Speaker 2: excessively positive raps for something more complex and dark but
Speaker 2: equally inspiring. Anyone following Will Smith's trajectory the last handful
Speaker 2: of years, or who read his wonderful autobiography, knows that
Speaker 2: he's been on a powerful journey of self discovery and healing.
Speaker 2: It's left him wide open to be a bit of
Speaker 2: a different artist than he's been in the past, and
Speaker 2: it's also drawn him back into music. Will's new project,
Speaker 2: based on a true story, will be coming out in
Speaker 2: three parts this year, with part one dropping in March.
Speaker 2: We discuss where he's at as a creator on this
Speaker 2: new album and go through his decades long career in music,
Speaker 2: which starts with his teen years back in Philly. It
Speaker 2: was a real pleasure talking to someone as multi dimensional
Speaker 2: and equally open and honest as Will so enjoy This
Speaker 2: is Broken Record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my conversation
Speaker 2: with Will Smith from Amazon Music Studio one twenty six.
Speaker 2: To see the video version of this episode, visit YouTube
Speaker 2: dot com slash Broken Record podcast, or click on the
Speaker 2: link in this episode description.
Speaker 3: Man Will Smith. Will Smith is a brother.
Speaker 1: Doing this.
Speaker 3: I'm really excited exit we have.
Speaker 2: We've hasked like, you know, a number of incredible any
Speaker 2: number of incredible guests on the show, but Man, to
Speaker 2: have to have you is just a real honor.
Speaker 3: You know, Thank you. Man. I'll try not to disappoint.
Speaker 1: I know you won't.
Speaker 2: We're talking a little bit about Quincy. Just yeah, you
Speaker 2: know I met you. I was in Havana, Cuba, wow, randomly,
Speaker 2: and you know what it is in Havanah like there's
Speaker 2: no you can bear these he there's internet and you
Speaker 2: can't get in nothing really blackouts a see you, nothing
Speaker 2: really quite works. So I was walking around, I was lost,
Speaker 2: looking for a restaurant in downtown Havana, and I saw
Speaker 2: a bunch of satellite trucks and as with my boys,
Speaker 2: like this is that's a little that's a little weird,
Speaker 2: just considering the situation, the infrastructure.
Speaker 3: Situation around there. What's this?
Speaker 2: So we walk up and we asked some There's some
Speaker 2: Cubans like looking up the steps.
Speaker 1: Like hey, what's going on.
Speaker 2: I was just like, we don't know, all right, So
Speaker 2: I just walked up the steps. I guess because I
Speaker 2: was American, they didn't question it.
Speaker 1: I walk in.
Speaker 2: I see Esperanza Spalding in the foyer and I just
Speaker 2: met her the week before. I go, She goes, I
Speaker 2: got to I'm packing. I'm literally about to catch a flight,
Speaker 2: but you should go upstairs. There's a bunch of bunch
Speaker 2: going on upstairs. I go, go upstairs. So we walk
Speaker 2: up like five flights of this old beautiful uh Theater
Speaker 2: in downtown Havana and the old Tavana and.
Speaker 1: A bunch crazy music legends, crazy music legends, Valdez, a
Speaker 1: Cuban music legends, Handcott.
Speaker 3: Then I see you. That was wild? There was Quincy
Speaker 3: was what was that? What was that?
Speaker 1: It was the International Jazz International Jazz Fest. You didn't
Speaker 1: eve know what's going on? Man?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I saw Quinn you you left pretty quickly when
Speaker 2: after I got there. But then I saw Quincy at
Speaker 2: some point sitting at the table by himself. I go,
Speaker 2: that's kind of wild. I'm gonna go say hi. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so just like hey shake his hands and want to
Speaker 2: say hello. Wind up happening a two hour dinner, Wow
Speaker 2: kicking exchange in for us exactly how Quincy is kept
Speaker 2: a friendship tally, you know, And this is just like it
Speaker 2: was unbelievable.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Nah, he was at his you know, he loved people.
Speaker 1: That was this thing, like everybody was so interesting to him.
Speaker 1: He saw everybody as like a work of art, you know,
Speaker 1: and he was always looking and wanted to know where
Speaker 1: you came from and where you grew up, and you know,
Speaker 1: he uh, he just loved that kind of interaction. When
Speaker 1: did you first meet him?
Speaker 3: I met Quincy actually the.
Speaker 1: Night Benny Medina, who was Benny Medina was the real
Speaker 1: live fresh Prince of bel Air.
Speaker 3: So he worked at Warner Records.
Speaker 1: He worked at Warner Records, and I met Quincy when
Speaker 1: the night that Benny took me to Quincy's house to
Speaker 1: pitch me for the show. And it was you know,
Speaker 1: walking in and you know, seeing Quincy Jones. Was he
Speaker 1: I think he just won the Soul Trained Lifetime Achievement
Speaker 1: Award or something like that. So I was coming to
Speaker 1: his house after the show and we met and that
Speaker 1: night he made me auditioned in the living room. That
Speaker 1: same night I met him, I went for a party
Speaker 1: to talk and he cleared the living room out, made
Speaker 1: me audition for the show Impromptu Out of Nowhere. But
Speaker 1: he had a script for an old Marris Day and
Speaker 1: the time, old pilot for mars Day and the time,
Speaker 1: and he was, hey, just read this script, practice this,
Speaker 1: go do this. And I auditioned in his living room
Speaker 1: at a party. That's insane, Yeah he was. He was
Speaker 1: like that too, did you in that moment? What was
Speaker 1: your thought process? You know it was so I just
Speaker 1: flew in. I thought it was a party for Quincy's house,
Speaker 1: and you know Benny Medina. I had met Benny at Arsenio.
Speaker 1: It was during the time that the Arsenio Hall show
Speaker 1: was like the top of everything. So you know, I
Speaker 1: had I had gone broke after my first round of success.
Speaker 3: That happens about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you shouldn't do that if you if you could
Speaker 1: it all, avoid going broke after your first round of
Speaker 1: excess success. You should actually Freudian slip first round of excess.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, right right, that's how it happened. That it happens.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, So, you know, I met Bennie Medina
Speaker 1: and he pitched me the idea. And Benny had gone
Speaker 1: from Watts to Beverly Hills.
Speaker 3: So he was talking.
Speaker 1: To Quincy about doing a show about his life where
Speaker 1: a black kid moves in with a white family in
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills, and so he takes it and you know,
Speaker 1: we walk in Quincy's house, and you know, Quincy, he
Speaker 1: was a little toasty, you know, he you know, it
Speaker 1: was his house. He was like, he was a little toasty,
Speaker 1: a little toasty. And he said, hey man, you know Quincy.
Speaker 1: He said, did Benny talk to you about the show?
Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, a little bit. He said, yeah,
Speaker 1: where are you from? I said Philly. He said, all right,
Speaker 1: your character's from Philly. And I was like, and literally
Speaker 1: we've never met in that first he's like, your character's
Speaker 1: from Philly.
Speaker 3: My character okay, and he said all right.
Speaker 1: So Benny went from from Watts to Beverly Hills and
Speaker 1: he said, this is bel Air. His house Quincy's house
Speaker 1: was actually in bel Air. He said, this is bel Air.
Speaker 1: So the show's not going to Beverly Hills. The character's
Speaker 1: going from Philly to bel Air. He said, make Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills look like public housing. And he said, all right,
Speaker 1: what's your rap name? And I said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm with DJ Jazzy Jeff and I'm the I'm the
Speaker 1: Fresh Prince.
Speaker 3: All right, cool, that's the show. The Fresh Prince of
Speaker 3: bel Air, and.
Speaker 1: That's literally how the show got created named, you know,
Speaker 1: with with Quincy in his living room.
Speaker 3: And he was like, Hey, we're gonna have audition.
Speaker 1: We gonna have audition, and he just cleared the living
Speaker 1: room out and I read the script. I've read the
Speaker 1: you know, the did the couple of scenes and the
Speaker 1: Moors Days day and the time I failed Mars Day
Speaker 1: in the time, you know. But yeah, he Quincy was
Speaker 1: like that he uh uh, he knew how to catch
Speaker 1: lightning strikes, he knew how to put the right people
Speaker 1: in the right place and wait for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems like it's kind of it's beautiful that
Speaker 2: you guys connected the way you did, the way you
Speaker 2: both straddle music and film and television and just kind
Speaker 2: of all levels of entertainment. But also, and I don't
Speaker 2: know if this was like a chicken on the egg scenario,
Speaker 2: but maybe you were both destined to meet in the
Speaker 2: sense because you both have a similar also energy and
Speaker 2: belief and sort of almost as anything as possible sort
Speaker 2: of sensibility, you know.
Speaker 3: Crazy you're saying that.
Speaker 1: So my my album is called I'm going back and
Speaker 1: forth between saying U boats or based on a true story, right,
Speaker 1: So it's but the name is based on a true story.
Speaker 1: And you know, I've written so much stuff in the
Speaker 1: in the last two years, I couldn't get it into one.
Speaker 1: So rather than you know, trying to jam it into
Speaker 1: one project, I'm doing it like a television show. So
Speaker 1: I'm releasing it in seasons. So I have three seasons,
Speaker 1: so I'm not calling it an album. I'm calling it
Speaker 1: season one based on a true story. So season one
Speaker 1: is called Raven the Wastelam and this this story does
Speaker 1: have a point, and see season two is a Quincy
Speaker 1: Jones quote. And season two is called The Gift of Madness.
Speaker 1: And somebody asked Quincy, They said, Quincy, you know you
Speaker 1: you you picked Michael Jackson, you picked Oprah Winfrey, and
Speaker 1: you picked Will Smith, Like what what are you seeing
Speaker 1: that the rest of us don't see? And he said
Speaker 1: all three of them have the gift of madness. And
Speaker 1: he said they believe that impossible things can happen. And
Speaker 1: he said that is an absolute necessity for the kind
Speaker 1: of success that they've achieved. So I named season two
Speaker 1: of my music is called the Gift of Madness. Now
Speaker 1: it almost sounds like a gift in a curse either way,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, obviously I think it's writ large.
Speaker 1: I seem that's probably a positive thing.
Speaker 3: But there's a.
Speaker 1: Certain amount of delusion that is necessary to achieve things
Speaker 1: that haven't been achieved before. You have to be quote
Speaker 1: unquote insane. If you're going to attempt something that no
Speaker 1: one's ever done before, that's almost the definition of insanity.
Speaker 3: Right. So there's a there's a certain amount of.
Speaker 1: Deluded naivete that is necessary to manifest things that have
Speaker 1: not been manifest And you know this, this is a
Speaker 1: thought universe, and that there's a there's a Confucius quote
Speaker 1: love he says, he who says he can and he
Speaker 1: who says he can't are both usually right, right, And
Speaker 1: the the idea that what you think and what you
Speaker 1: believe is the first step to manifestation. You can't create
Speaker 1: it if you can't see it in your mind, if
Speaker 1: you can't believe it, you can't bring it out of
Speaker 1: the quantum field into this three D reality if you
Speaker 1: don't believe it. You have to have a certain deluded
Speaker 1: certainty in your magical abilities.
Speaker 2: Now, and actually that's your second verse and beautiful scars,
Speaker 2: But the versus song I feel like that beautiful, right,
Speaker 2: that's one of my favorite verses of them, of the
Speaker 2: songs I heard loved that.
Speaker 1: Yes, that is absolutely what that that verse is meant
Speaker 1: to communicate. You know, there there are no limits as
Speaker 1: send through the universe. I believe in me, like it's religion.
Speaker 1: But I am the only one who converts conversation with
Speaker 1: the congregation. The scripture is in the verse I manifest
Speaker 1: through my mentality. The only real is my reality, you know.
Speaker 1: So it's like that that's the I love trying to
Speaker 1: get those ideas into the music, to be able to
Speaker 1: share the cheat.
Speaker 3: Codes, you know.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, one of the things with
Speaker 1: my kids, there was a thing I used to say
Speaker 1: to my kids all the time where you know, they
Speaker 1: would say, oh.
Speaker 3: No, I can't do that. I was like, no, don't
Speaker 3: think that.
Speaker 1: Don't think that, like the pattern of thoughts to emotions
Speaker 1: that lead to actions that become your life. Right, And
Speaker 1: it's like the first gate is what you think, Like,
Speaker 1: don't think that. Only think things that are like aligned
Speaker 1: with what you want to manifest.
Speaker 2: When did when did that become like a concrete in
Speaker 2: your head? Like I mean it seems like maybe you've
Speaker 2: been operating I don't know if you were operating that
Speaker 2: way subconsciously before or this was always sort of a
Speaker 2: conscious manifestation of your So I think.
Speaker 3: I always I knew as a child that.
Speaker 1: The energy in a room is a major part of
Speaker 1: what happens out of that room, like like what the
Speaker 1: energy is. You can't create an opposition to what the
Speaker 1: feelings and the energy are in the room. And I knew,
Speaker 1: you know, very young, that my my imagination was the
Speaker 1: center of my ability to create. And I knew that
Speaker 1: if I if I was in a bad mood, I
Speaker 1: was going to make bad things happen. And you know,
Speaker 1: sort of a negative aspect of that for me is
Speaker 1: I learned how to pretend. Right, So you pretend positive
Speaker 1: energy and strangely you'll start to actually feel good.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Right, But the the you know, the problem is.
Speaker 1: That the the the the underlying issues are are still
Speaker 1: there and you know they will they'll definitely creep up
Speaker 1: on you.
Speaker 3: That makes sense, the residual So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you gotta at some point point you have to
Speaker 1: come out of the delusive positive energy and you have
Speaker 1: to make your way through you know, your your interior
Speaker 1: Valley of the Shadow of Death and come to you know,
Speaker 1: authentic faith and trust and positivity. Yeah, that's looking forward.
Speaker 2: I do want to go back to the start of
Speaker 2: your music career, Chazy, Jeff and the Fresh Prince.
Speaker 3: It was such a beautiful time.
Speaker 1: So Jeff comes from a musical family and Jeff's brother
Speaker 1: had ten thousand records. He had one of the biggest
Speaker 1: record collections of anybody in Philly. And when Jeff was
Speaker 1: twelve years old, he had a bout with cancer.
Speaker 3: So Jeff wasn't allowed to come out of the house.
Speaker 1: Between twelve sixteen, wow, and he was in his basement
Speaker 1: with ten thousand records for the process of you know,
Speaker 1: beating cancer and all of that. And we had to
Speaker 1: go to Jeff's house to see him, right.
Speaker 2: Was that like a like that's pretty like that's kind
Speaker 2: of like hetty for like a sixteen year old to
Speaker 2: be you know, you know another kid, you know, so
Speaker 2: it's crazy.
Speaker 1: I just you know, at that time, I didn't know
Speaker 1: much about it and what it was and you know,
Speaker 1: so I didn't really understand what was going on. And
Speaker 1: he by the time we met, he was like, you know,
Speaker 1: coming out of it. But he had spent those four
Speaker 1: years in the in the base, in his mother's basement.
Speaker 1: We did all of our original recording in his mother's basement. Wow,
Speaker 1: so I don't have an image of Jeff in his
Speaker 1: childhood home. I cannot recall an image where he's not
Speaker 1: standing behind his turntables. Jeff was always behind his turntables.
Speaker 1: He would he would be behind his turntables twelve hours
Speaker 1: a day, but three and four hour stretches where he
Speaker 1: wouldn't sit down. Wow, you're no, that's the only image
Speaker 1: I have of him. I'm like trying to you know,
Speaker 1: when I was writing my book, I was trying to
Speaker 1: remember Jeff's in the kitchen. I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: even have a I don't even have an image of
Speaker 1: Jeff opening the refrigerator, like.
Speaker 3: Always in front of his turntable. What was it like
Speaker 3: His parents were like cool with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it was like, you know, his mother wanted
Speaker 1: him in the house whatever. Yeah, yeah, she almost lost
Speaker 1: her baby. She was like, as long as he's in
Speaker 1: the house, y'all gonna do whatever you want down there.
Speaker 2: But then they spend a time between like sixteen and
Speaker 2: you guys are in the basement.
Speaker 3: You never see Jeff out of the base on the turntable.
Speaker 1: Well, you guys according by the time he was sixteen,
Speaker 1: he was so used to being in his basement. From
Speaker 1: sixteen to twenty he was still in there by choice.
Speaker 2: I didn't really, I didn't know did that first because
Speaker 2: you guys get signed a Jive, which is you know,
Speaker 2: at the time or maybe still is London based. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so you guys record the first album.
Speaker 1: Yeah in London, in London, Yeah, kind of write it too,
Speaker 1: maybe even like so, so what happened is, you know,
Speaker 1: back then you had to have everything written before you
Speaker 1: went in the studio. You couldn't go in the studio
Speaker 1: and write in the studio. So we had prepared all
Speaker 1: of the music and you know that was at a
Speaker 1: time there was no pro tools. You couldn't record at home, right,
Speaker 1: So it was like I think task Cam had just
Speaker 1: come out with like a four track recorder and that
Speaker 1: was the first time you could just at least get
Speaker 1: something on to four track to hear it. So job
Speaker 1: the company was Zamba. They were based in London, so
Speaker 1: you know, we had recorded most of the music or
Speaker 1: written most of the music in Philly and then we
Speaker 1: flew to London to actually go into the studio.
Speaker 2: So wildly in my mind, I would would have thought,
Speaker 2: you guys did it in New York, you know something,
Speaker 2: but like no, to go from like we're doing We're
Speaker 2: Philly and we're doing hip hop, repping Philly hip hop
Speaker 2: and we're going find we fine over forget New York
Speaker 2: going to London.
Speaker 1: London to record it was it was. It was my
Speaker 1: first introduction to how important traveling is. It's like it
Speaker 1: blasted my mind open. Like they didn't have steak knives.
Speaker 1: I was like, how do you not have Why would
Speaker 1: you did they? We were we were cutting steak with
Speaker 1: butter knives. I was like, well, you know, we have
Speaker 1: steak knives. I was just I was really really surprised.
Speaker 1: I thought a a th other place like England would
Speaker 1: at least have stak now, but yeah, it was. It
Speaker 1: was like just the you know, just the cars and
Speaker 1: the steering wheel on the other side and driving on
Speaker 1: the other side of the street. It's it's amazing how
Speaker 1: that can blast you know, a kid's mind open. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't even consider the idea that people drive on
Speaker 1: the other side of the street, and you get these
Speaker 1: patterns in your mind that get locked and having an
Speaker 1: experience that pops it open, you know, it just really
Speaker 1: helps to open you to new ideas and new possibilities.
Speaker 1: I think it was really great for me and Jeff
Speaker 1: to be listening to radio in London while we were
Speaker 1: recording our first album. So it it expanded well mind,
Speaker 1: Jeff was already music, yeah, but it really expanded my understanding,
Speaker 1: even the idea that they were loving hip hop in
Speaker 1: a foreign country.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't.
Speaker 1: It never had dawned on me that hip hop was
Speaker 1: outside of New York, Philadelphia, New Jersey.
Speaker 2: We'll be right back with more from Will Smith after
Speaker 2: the break. You've talked about rock Him, Melly Mel being
Speaker 2: to your guys.
Speaker 3: Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2: Was was was slick Rick at all? Like big for you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, slick Rick was later. Yeah. So so.
Speaker 1: For me it was Grandmaster Kaz was my my like,
Speaker 1: my whole style and everything is based on Grandmaster Kaz.
Speaker 3: So it was he was the He was the first
Speaker 3: rapper that I.
Speaker 1: Heard put comedic punchlines and there was something about that
Speaker 1: that validated who I was. Wait, I could put a
Speaker 1: joke in a rap and you know, he people would
Speaker 1: be cracking up. At Grandmaster Kaz's punchline, and he would
Speaker 1: do a thing where you know, the DJ would stop
Speaker 1: the beat on the fourth bar so everybody could hear
Speaker 1: the punchline and then drop the beat back in. And
Speaker 1: he was the first person that I heard do that,
Speaker 1: and that totally became my style.
Speaker 3: You and Jeff were worked that out. We would work
Speaker 3: that out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so there would be there would be no Fresh
Speaker 1: Prints if there was no Grandmaster Kaz. Wow. So that
Speaker 1: was and then Slick Rick comes in when so Slick
Speaker 1: Rick was slicking Dougie. That's all like mid to late eighties.
Speaker 1: But the summer that we dropped nineteen eighty six I
Speaker 1: think is arguably right because it's one of.
Speaker 3: The best time.
Speaker 1: So it was you know, Jazzy, Jeff from Fresh Prince
Speaker 1: and and uh Eric being Rok Kim Run, dmc ll cool,
Speaker 1: j BC boys, all of that that that eighty six
Speaker 1: to eighty eight, and Slick and Slick and Dougie were
Speaker 1: right on the back end of that, right right, gonna
Speaker 1: be like eighty seven eighty eight, Yeah, Yeah, when the
Speaker 1: Yeah Deaf Jam record comes out. As you start to develop,
Speaker 1: like you know, you told the story about getting the
Speaker 1: Fresh Prince. When you you're I mean your firm, you're
Speaker 1: super very successful despite being broke, blowing the money access,
Speaker 1: you're a highly successful musician. You know, well, eighty nine
Speaker 1: we won the Grammy and you know we we were
Speaker 1: we were already on the on the the road to
Speaker 1: bankruptcy while we were written winning the grim While you're
Speaker 1: there the highs and the low Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: But when you get the Fresh Prince, then is there
Speaker 2: any part of you was like I was gonna do
Speaker 2: Like obviously you released some more records as Judge Jeff
Speaker 2: and The Fresh Prince. How did you manage both at
Speaker 2: that time?
Speaker 1: So you know, at that point once, once I was broke,
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't ever want to do that again.
Speaker 1: So I never want to do that again. So that
Speaker 1: that is when the I went full beast mode. I
Speaker 1: was like, I am doing this TV show. I'm going
Speaker 1: to release music every single year. And you know, then
Speaker 1: as I started to transition to movies, I was trying
Speaker 1: to do a movie album and the TV show every year,
Speaker 1: and you know, music kind of took a little bit
Speaker 1: of a backseat, which is a part of my inspiration.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I've actually never concentrated on music. The way that I've
Speaker 1: wanted to Music was always second to the Fresh Prince
Speaker 1: of bel Air, or it was second, you know, even
Speaker 1: when I got things to go together like men in Black,
Speaker 1: so we do we do Men in Black and then
Speaker 1: the song is also a hit for the soundtrack.
Speaker 2: I was tripping though, because that, like, you know, I
Speaker 2: was looking it up. I was like, that didn't even
Speaker 2: Men in Black was a huge song. But anyone who
Speaker 2: was there to remember that song was huge still is huge.
Speaker 2: I didn't even chart. I can't beat It's like it
Speaker 2: wasn't even officially released as a single, So it really
Speaker 2: was like a secondary.
Speaker 3: The secondary.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, music was always the mistress, and she
Speaker 1: doesn't like that, so I'm trying to.
Speaker 2: Devote to her, trying to you know, And even I
Speaker 2: went back trying to look up press. You might have
Speaker 2: done around Big Willy Style, not a lot, but you
Speaker 2: didn't really promote those that much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you know, with Big Willy Style, that was
Speaker 1: coming off of Men in Black, So I was trying
Speaker 1: to use the momentum of that. But you know, Jazzy
Speaker 1: Jeff and the Fresh Prince have never even gone on tour, right,
Speaker 1: so we've done dates on other tours. We did dates
Speaker 1: on Runs House, and we've been on and off of
Speaker 1: other people's tour.
Speaker 3: We never did a headlining tour again, never did a
Speaker 3: headlining tour.
Speaker 1: So this this will be the first time ever that
Speaker 1: you know, we put together a tour and I get
Speaker 1: to headline a world tour. Never so all that all
Speaker 1: that live audio on like he's a DJ on the
Speaker 1: rapper that's from just like one off.
Speaker 3: One off show.
Speaker 1: So you know, we would do The Fresh Prince of
Speaker 1: bel Air would shoot on Friday nights. So what we
Speaker 1: would do is the the taping would be Friday night.
Speaker 1: We you know, flyout, we do a show Saturday night
Speaker 1: somewhere and then Sunday back on a plane to be
Speaker 1: back or at work on the Fresh Prince on Monday.
Speaker 1: So we were getting one show here, one show there,
Speaker 1: but never have actually done a tour. This will be
Speaker 1: the first time in my life that I'm going to
Speaker 1: put together a full tour, full show, full performance, headlining, headlining.
Speaker 3: Do you haven't worked out yet?
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 3: I have my.
Speaker 1: Ninety minutes. I had never been on stage for ninety
Speaker 1: minutes before. So I did two shows in San Diego,
Speaker 1: a couple of months ago.
Speaker 3: It was wild.
Speaker 1: It was the world is so desperate for nostalgia right now.
Speaker 1: The world wants that so bad, and it's like people
Speaker 1: just yearning for, you know, a time when things were
Speaker 1: a little bit easier. So that and then the latter
Speaker 1: half of the show transitioned into the new music and
Speaker 1: it was just it was beautiful.
Speaker 3: How people went with me, you know.
Speaker 1: And you know, because it's really in one arena, I'm
Speaker 1: seasoned artist, and then in this new space, I'm like
Speaker 1: brand new. It's a weird experience. It's a weird yeah space,
Speaker 1: you existing. So I'm trying to find that new way.
Speaker 1: So it's the first time I've ever done ninety minutes,
Speaker 1: was you know, two months ago in San Diego. In
Speaker 1: San Diego, I've never been on on on music stage
Speaker 1: for ninety minutes. I've never done more than sixty minutes.
Speaker 2: I was the tour now coming out. That's crazy to me,
Speaker 2: you know, the nostalgia of it. I mean going back
Speaker 2: and listening to Big William will Any, I mean, that
Speaker 2: was that was that was a trip for me. There
Speaker 2: were some real interesting things. Was when I was going
Speaker 2: back and revisiting it, I mean, I owned both in
Speaker 2: the day and played them incessantly. But going back and
Speaker 2: revisiting that now, like nas is on it, like first
Speaker 2: all I didn't even realize, like going back like uh
Speaker 2: uh Toning Poke, how did you get that?
Speaker 1: So when you go to do your first solo.
Speaker 2: Album, yeah, you probably could have at that point your
Speaker 2: will you can probably could.
Speaker 3: I mean you had done old On.
Speaker 2: Let's think about this, between Code Red and uh Big
Speaker 2: Willie Style, it's uh six and Greeks of Separation comes out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was doing a movie between each one,
Speaker 1: the television show and a movie in between.
Speaker 2: In between you film, you film and release Bad Boys,
Speaker 2: Independence Day and Men Black. Yes, so I mean you
Speaker 2: like no Vacation, no, no, nothing you know, and you
Speaker 2: and Fresh Prince Rat Fresh Princes. So like all that's
Speaker 2: happened in the four years between the Last Jazzy Jeff
Speaker 2: and the Fresh Prince record and and and Big Willy
Speaker 2: Star Style. But so how do you end up? And
Speaker 2: I love the track masters, I love Tone and Pope.
Speaker 1: How do you end up with them? How'd end up
Speaker 1: with them? Being the how do we meet Tone and Polk?
Speaker 1: I think so Big Willi Style. I think they were
Speaker 1: signed to the label at that time, Columbia. Yeah, they
Speaker 1: were sligned to signed to Columbia, and we I don't
Speaker 1: remember how we met the first first time we met,
Speaker 1: but they were like the top of the top. They
Speaker 1: were they were producing everybody at that time, and they
Speaker 1: were you know, Nas and Mary J. Blige and you know,
Speaker 1: so they they had they had hits. They were they
Speaker 1: were the guys of the moment. And you know that
Speaker 1: that was that was a little bit tough because Jeff
Speaker 1: at that point had produced everything.
Speaker 3: So we had never worked with outside producers.
Speaker 1: Do some stuff on the last one, right, like Teddy
Speaker 1: Riley did a song, but but even that was coming
Speaker 1: through Jeff. So Jeff, So this was the first time
Speaker 1: that I went with producers and you know, worked separately
Speaker 1: on on music. So was that a tough conversation to have? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it's Jeff is real easy going. Jeff, Jeff
Speaker 1: is real easy going. And he he had uh he
Speaker 1: had started in the Fresh Prince of bel Air, so
Speaker 1: he was he he was cool at that time. But
Speaker 1: what it was a little it was a little bit
Speaker 1: of a of a difficult time because I was trying
Speaker 1: to like do something new. I was trying to like
Speaker 1: find a new direction, a new voice, not not unsimilar
Speaker 1: to now. You know, I think that that shoot, that
Speaker 1: might that might be the the central human skill to
Speaker 1: be able to transform and transition, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: to to be able to make the adjustment. This one's
Speaker 1: bigger than that, you know, but it's, uh, it is
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about it. I hadn't thought about it. It
Speaker 1: is a it's a really similar kind of seeking for
Speaker 1: the new artistic expression, well, the trajectory again fresh prints
Speaker 1: that as a as a sort of the point of
Speaker 1: view for making the music into big will Willie style Willennium,
Speaker 1: that is, being like the newly minted movie star. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's like that.
Speaker 3: Big WILLI take it full Big Willie. That's that point
Speaker 3: of view. And yeah, right now it.
Speaker 2: Feels more personal than ever. I mean, although first person
Speaker 2: probably was personal too. It's just a lot lighter when
Speaker 2: you're you know, it's.
Speaker 1: Different when you're when you're as an actor, it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of you, but you're playing a character, whereas
Speaker 1: the music is much more uh personal. And I think
Speaker 1: what happened in the first part of my career I
Speaker 1: rejected anything that wasn't happy and joyful and getting jiggy
Speaker 1: with it. You know, I was living fully in that
Speaker 1: space and I kind of banished, you know, those other
Speaker 1: parts of myself. So this is this is really the
Speaker 1: the first time in my in my career with with
Speaker 1: music for sure, that I'm allowing a fuller, fuller spectrum
Speaker 1: of my thoughts and feelings to be delivered in in
Speaker 1: the music.
Speaker 3: Although Willennium, you Am with the Rain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you got saw I put it as the
Speaker 1: last song song, put as the last song. I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this one, this one got a little sad and it's
Speaker 1: in it. Put the We're gonna put that as the
Speaker 1: last song. It's incredible though, Man, Jill Scott's amazing. I
Speaker 1: think that's one of her first like like like features
Speaker 1: on a record, you know what I mean, Ji Scott,
Speaker 1: that was one of the That was one of the
Speaker 1: first records that I worked with somebody to write. Common
Speaker 1: wrote that with me really yeah the Rain, So me
Speaker 1: and Common worked together on that.
Speaker 3: So how did that come together?
Speaker 1: So you know, he was just in the studio, he
Speaker 1: was in another studio he was working on.
Speaker 3: He was like, Yo, what you working on?
Speaker 1: He literally just came in the studio and start throwing
Speaker 1: lines and weep.
Speaker 3: Me and Common wrote The Rain together.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's been people who said that you did. We're
Speaker 2: doing that with Nas on Big Willie Stein.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so what was the track?
Speaker 3: It was a just cruising, just cu want just cruising
Speaker 3: with Nas. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I wrote that with Nas and wrote The Rain
Speaker 1: with with Common. That's wild, man, Like, collaboration is everything. Man,
Speaker 1: This is like opening up to other ideas and other
Speaker 1: voices and hearing you know, what people would do differently, right,
Speaker 1: And it's like how Common's mind works and how NAS's
Speaker 1: mind works. And for me it was it was it
Speaker 1: was trying to reach for people that I admired to
Speaker 1: like pull something out of me. I just, I just
Speaker 1: I wasn't ready at that time. Genre changed so much
Speaker 1: too between I mean, you know, just like your career
Speaker 1: changed so much between co Red and Big Willly sounds
Speaker 1: like between co Redd and Big Willly sounce like illmatic.
Speaker 1: And it was written comes out life after that or
Speaker 1: ready to die and life after Death. Me guess well,
Speaker 1: and all that time it's like there was like a
Speaker 1: big you know, it just changed so much. I always
Speaker 1: wanted to rap like that. You know, and I just
Speaker 1: never gave myself permission, you know, to make things that
Speaker 1: weren't at the top of joyful energy, you know, to
Speaker 1: be able to settle back a little bit into different
Speaker 1: emotions and different energies. And this is the first time.
Speaker 1: I always want it, hits. I want a big, giant
Speaker 1: global hit records, and I knew how to make still
Speaker 1: know how to make records that will play in one
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety countries in the world, you know. So
Speaker 1: I'm trying to release that outcome desire. And now I
Speaker 1: really want to express myself, right, I want to like
Speaker 1: explore what's going on in here and share it and
Speaker 1: find that connective space with other people who could enjoy
Speaker 1: the experience of my testimony, like what happened I saw
Speaker 1: with my book. When you open and are vulnerable in
Speaker 1: that way, it is helpful. It's helpful because you know,
Speaker 1: we all think we're by ourselves. Did you know you
Speaker 1: were going to be that open when you started the book?
Speaker 3: Like did you?
Speaker 1: Because like you, I was like, wow, this is you
Speaker 1: are being vulnerable, which was such a gift. But no,
Speaker 1: I certainly didn't know that when I started, you know,
Speaker 1: But as I as I got into it that like that,
Speaker 1: the medium lends itself to more openness. It's a little
Speaker 1: more difficult for me doing that with the music because
Speaker 1: you got make it rhyme, you know.
Speaker 3: You figure it out.
Speaker 1: That's another thing where you just you got in a book,
Speaker 1: you just say it and your your you know, and
Speaker 1: you have so much space. And in literature you have
Speaker 1: so much space to make your point.
Speaker 3: You made use of it, though, and I'm sure there's more.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you could. I know you're probably gonna do
Speaker 1: another one. I hope you do.
Speaker 2: But that's a substantial book, and you know, I just
Speaker 2: couldn't help but thinking about it when I'm listening to
Speaker 2: Beautiful Scars and First Love, which will be out by
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this, like India Martina is gorgeous.
Speaker 1: She's an incredible She's incredible. Can you talk about First
Speaker 1: Love a bit? So the way I'm creating my current
Speaker 1: music is anything that sparks.
Speaker 3: I'm making a song, right.
Speaker 1: I used to be directed by what I thought would land,
Speaker 1: and so now I'm not paying attention to whether it
Speaker 1: lands or not. I'm only focusing on an accurate expression
Speaker 1: of whatever came up for me, whatever came up inside
Speaker 1: of me.
Speaker 3: So with the first love.
Speaker 1: I saw this video of in Cuba with these kids
Speaker 1: learning flamenco and it was this really strange mix of
Speaker 1: kids in Cuba and it was the flamenco guitars and
Speaker 1: all that, you know, and it's like flamenco is really sexy.
Speaker 1: And you know, these kids were like twelve or thirteen,
Speaker 1: and I just watched. There was a little boy and
Speaker 1: a little girl and they were how they were looking
Speaker 1: at each other, and I was like, wow, you see
Speaker 1: that look and you remember like that first time you
Speaker 1: like fell in love with somebody, that feeling of absolute
Speaker 1: joy and possibility and anxiety and all of that stuff
Speaker 1: that gets mixed up in first love. And then I
Speaker 1: was I was noticing how we lose the ability to
Speaker 1: be that open after we get hurt, and then once
Speaker 1: we're adults, we don't even allow ourselves to fall into
Speaker 1: that delicious, mystical place of first love.
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone would accept it if you try,
Speaker 3: your friends, what do you do? What do you think?
Speaker 1: But it's really and I was looking at those kids,
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, that's.
Speaker 3: What we all really want.
Speaker 1: We really want to feel that with no fear at
Speaker 1: all like and and then I saw India perform in
Speaker 1: uh Marbella and I saw her perform and she had
Speaker 1: a flamenco piece. I was like, so I pitched the
Speaker 1: idea to her and she loved it and she went
Speaker 1: in the studio. So did you have words already or
Speaker 1: I had the emotion of what I wanted to do,
Speaker 1: But it was the flamenco hip hop blend that I
Speaker 1: got excited about. So we went back and forth for
Speaker 1: a couple of months and the record First Love is
Speaker 1: what came out of it.
Speaker 3: It's really amazing. Man.
Speaker 2: After this last break, we were back with the rest
Speaker 2: of my conversation with Will Smith.
Speaker 3: It's funny.
Speaker 1: I was sick about four years ago and I threw
Speaker 1: in your audiobook three years ago and I spent like
Speaker 1: five days in bed just like with your voice in
Speaker 1: there and your book just it blew me away. Oh
Speaker 1: thank you man, And it made you know, just I
Speaker 1: think the way it is a book that was that
Speaker 1: personal and that you read it too, and the way
Speaker 1: you produced it.
Speaker 3: It really was like, man, I feel like I know
Speaker 3: this guy now. You know.
Speaker 2: We couldn't that weird, but from what I like, what
Speaker 2: I could glean from that. What trimmed me out is
Speaker 2: it seems like there's this kind of duality with you.
Speaker 2: That's that's that's there's the highly rational will. It's accepted
Speaker 2: to m I t you know, very mathematical, precision based rationality.
Speaker 2: And then it does seem though it's the flip side
Speaker 2: of that, which is like the intuitive artist, No, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna go, I'm gonna go sign a record deal and
Speaker 2: me and Jazz are gonna go toward the world.
Speaker 1: The universe I learned and one of the things I
Speaker 1: talked about in the book, I learned that the as
Speaker 1: much as our minds want the universe to be rational
Speaker 1: and logical, it's not.
Speaker 3: The universe is magical.
Speaker 1: Right, So that's why we love movies like The Matrix,
Speaker 1: because deep down.
Speaker 3: Inside we know that's how it really is.
Speaker 1: That's why we like It's that that the the the
Speaker 1: the universe. And you know, you can say God, or
Speaker 1: you can say source, or you can say the quantum field,
Speaker 1: whatever you think. The energy is of the universe that
Speaker 1: you know is there that you know you can tap into, right,
Speaker 1: you know, that's why Star Wars, you know, the force
Speaker 1: in martial arts, it's cheat everybody talks about a source
Speaker 1: energy that you can tap into and you become exponential. Right, so,
Speaker 1: very young, I connected my thoughts to that energy that
Speaker 1: is this magical.
Speaker 3: Source God, spiritual.
Speaker 1: Energy that creates things exponential, that's directed by your desires
Speaker 1: and your energy and your your mind and your heart,
Speaker 1: you know. So I've been aware of that. This is
Speaker 1: the first time in my life, probably the past three years,
Speaker 1: where I am fully committed to that energy from from
Speaker 1: a spiritual standpoint, you know, in the past couple of years,
Speaker 1: I've read every Holy book, you know, I went, I
Speaker 1: went looking for for God and and found them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's turning up in your in the in the
Speaker 2: lyrics for this album, I mean Fresh Prince to Big
Speaker 2: Willie Willennium to what you put out. Now, this is
Speaker 2: the most introspective, Yes, for sure. It's it's like, you know,
Speaker 2: I feel like I've been blessed with cheat codes.
Speaker 1: You know, I've been I've been blessed with with secrets,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to figure out how to share them
Speaker 1: without sounding like the crazy dude.
Speaker 3: You know. I want you all to get some of
Speaker 3: this abundance.
Speaker 1: Was that the impetus then to start doing music again. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what what happened? It really started for me
Speaker 1: on emancipations. I did a movie in the slave drama
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and you know, it was
Speaker 1: it was really brutal going into the mindset and the
Speaker 1: the the absolute malice and malevolence of slavery and holding
Speaker 1: holding my mind in that in that place for three months,
Speaker 1: and then COVID hit and I ended up having to
Speaker 1: stay in that emotional feel for nine months because you're
Speaker 1: not sure when going back to shooting, so we don't
Speaker 1: want to get out of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I was staying in And what does that
Speaker 3: look like? Though?
Speaker 1: Like, well, I never even thought about that. What do
Speaker 1: you do? I mean, you're Will Smith, you know, You're
Speaker 1: you're the product of your parents, a Philly, of Quincy Jones,
Speaker 1: of all like all these magical, wonderful people.
Speaker 2: And you're putting yourself into a role that is you know,
Speaker 2: and obviously this is our lineage. Yeah, sure enough, But
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty or whatever, you having to put yourself
Speaker 2: in the mindset of a of a of a of
Speaker 2: a slave, a person who's being treated as less than human.
Speaker 1: What did you what did you do to do that?
Speaker 1: You know there as an actor, you you know, you
Speaker 1: consume all of the literature and you know there there
Speaker 1: are you know, tapes of former slaves and things, you know,
Speaker 1: enslaved people, and you're you, you consume it all and
Speaker 1: then there's a point where something clicks. And for me,
Speaker 1: the point where it clicked on emancipation I had. I said,
Speaker 1: I wanted to use the real shackles, right. They were like, hey,
Speaker 1: we can make them lighter, and we can do that.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I want, I want the actual shackles.
Speaker 1: So they found, you know, an actual one they were
Speaker 1: going to rebuild, but they put it around my neck
Speaker 1: and I was chained and it was on my neck
Speaker 1: and I was standing there with it and then the
Speaker 1: key wouldn't open it and we're like, oh no, and
Speaker 1: it was stuck, and my heart starts pounding and I'm
Speaker 1: standing there and in that moment it just started opening up.
Speaker 1: Now I have people that are running around, like desperately
Speaker 1: trying to get this thing off of my neck, But
Speaker 1: in those fifteen minutes where they couldn't get it off,
Speaker 1: it was like the the concept exploded inside of me
Speaker 1: of what it's like to be at the Mercy of
Speaker 1: other people's whims and I just understood it was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here shook with people running around try to
Speaker 1: get it off. What would it feel like if people
Speaker 1: didn't give a shit? What would it feel like if
Speaker 1: people would kick me and punch me when I couldn't
Speaker 1: fight back, you know? And it just popped inside of
Speaker 1: my mind. You're like, all of a sudden, for whatever reason,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to look people in their eyes. I
Speaker 1: was embarrassed, right, and I felt weak and I felt vulnerable,
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is what it would do,
Speaker 1: This is what it does to your spirit. And I'm
Speaker 1: standing there and my whole crew is there and they're
Speaker 1: looking at me too, and I'm like, I'm deeply disempowered
Speaker 1: and scared and embarrassed. I was like yep, and like
Speaker 1: all of the emotions exploded inside of me of how
Speaker 1: you're dehumanized by that kind of brutality. So you know
Speaker 1: that once that piece awakened and you get in touch
Speaker 1: with those emotions as an actor, you start to be
Speaker 1: able to call on them, and you call on those
Speaker 1: memories and things. But what happened is I ended up
Speaker 1: having to stay in that field for nine months, and
Speaker 1: something happened to me that never happened before as an actress.
Speaker 1: I started to dream as the character would dream. I
Speaker 1: was having his dreams, right, and you know, some of
Speaker 1: the some of the images I was seeing were like
Speaker 1: full nightmare imagery.
Speaker 3: And it's it like popped open a well.
Speaker 1: And you know, in in the character well opened up
Speaker 1: inside of me. A another part, a banished part of
Speaker 1: will opened up also, and and it's just I just
Speaker 1: I became a brand new human after emancipation.
Speaker 2: There was literally a part of you. I mean I
Speaker 2: think about that too when I was when I was
Speaker 2: listening to your book. You know, I think a lot
Speaker 2: about Obama as a for instance, like the how he
Speaker 2: has to be you know, beyond reproach in order and
Speaker 2: the you know, it's like, oh you are a base
Speaker 2: soup like you know, like yes, you know, thinking back
Speaker 2: to like Fox not wanting to cast you in Independence day. Okay,
Speaker 2: oh he's black and I's not gonna self foreign. These
Speaker 2: are things that you're you know, even as your your
Speaker 2: will and you're holding your confidence and you're you're holding
Speaker 2: your spirit up as an example for all of us
Speaker 2: and how to overcome you're dealing with these things. And
Speaker 2: so there is I mean, I think probably in all
Speaker 2: of us, in every Black American, there's just there is
Speaker 2: probably some wounded part. I can only imagine what being
Speaker 2: a slight well channeling that.
Speaker 1: Would One of one of the things that I realized
Speaker 1: in the last couple of years is we're We're all wounded.
Speaker 1: Wounding is existential. The the specific parts of our personal
Speaker 1: wounding is unique to our experience, but it's not unique
Speaker 1: to humanity. You know, women feel the same kind of
Speaker 1: wounding with men, And there's there's a sameness to our
Speaker 1: existential wounding that makes us miss treat each other right.
Speaker 1: And the the the recognition of our plight of all
Speaker 1: being dropped into this existential meat grinder, this place of
Speaker 1: absolute chaos and brutality and confusion. And when when, when
Speaker 1: I can find my sameness with you, we're.
Speaker 3: Less likely to fight about it.
Speaker 1: But if I need to prove somehow I'm worse off
Speaker 1: than you because of you, then you know, fighting is
Speaker 1: the only thing left to do.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: But the unique wound that you had that was exposed
Speaker 2: to this role, you feel led to creativity.
Speaker 1: It's the that it's I started to see code, you know,
Speaker 1: that's it was fun for me to do to do
Speaker 1: the matrix, and how you started thinking about the matrix
Speaker 1: as an entry point to present the music. I was
Speaker 1: like that it is. We all feel that it's brilliant.
Speaker 1: The matrix is brilliant, but we really start to look
Speaker 1: at it and when you start to see the practicality
Speaker 1: of what it actually means. And in essence, it's the
Speaker 1: idea that you have a story about reality and I
Speaker 1: have a story about reality, and neither one of our
Speaker 1: stories is actually true, right, right, we have a you know,
Speaker 1: my story is my father beat up my mother in
Speaker 1: front of me, and because of that, I felt like
Speaker 1: I had to sing and dance and make the house happy.
Speaker 1: And then that's how I became Will Smith. Right, And
Speaker 1: you know, I have my perception of myself that is
Speaker 1: nowhere near the actual.
Speaker 3: There's a meta, there's a yeah thing that I am right,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: So Michael Beckwith has a really beautiful phrase. He calls
Speaker 1: it the friction of fictions, and he says, that's what
Speaker 1: people are dealing with. I am fighting for my false
Speaker 1: story to be true, and you're fighting for your false
Speaker 1: story to be true. And you see it in relationships
Speaker 1: and you see it in governments and you you know,
Speaker 1: you see where I am clinging to a story that
Speaker 1: I desperately need to be true. And that's the That's
Speaker 1: what I really like about the matrix. It's like, yo',
Speaker 1: it's that's not true, you know.
Speaker 3: And so and so you're making music now, I know
Speaker 3: I'm going far.
Speaker 1: I'm just here.
Speaker 3: I'm just trying.
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to thread it together.
Speaker 2: So really this was and it's you wanted to you
Speaker 2: you you had this uh realization in a real concrete way,
Speaker 2: you wanted you felt the need to share this. That's
Speaker 2: where this different version of Will Smith the rapper, the musician,
Speaker 2: and this product.
Speaker 1: And its most simple form. I feel like there is.
Speaker 3: A new wave.
Speaker 1: That's coming, like where we are going some place in
Speaker 1: terms of consciousness, in terms of humanity, in terms of connection,
Speaker 1: in terms of understanding, and you know, I really do
Speaker 1: uh believe that the power of it is going to
Speaker 1: be in deeply and personally looking at ourselves and like
Speaker 1: the actual fiber of what's happening between us, like to
Speaker 1: truly understand like the nature of reality, separate from your
Speaker 1: thoughts about reality, like biting down on what our thoughts
Speaker 1: and beliefs are versus. Okay, let me I'm gonna back
Speaker 1: off of that just a little bit to see if
Speaker 1: I can see what's really truly happening in this moment.
Speaker 1: And it's like with my music, I really am trying
Speaker 1: to explore myself and trying to explore the world and
Speaker 1: trying to.
Speaker 3: Figure out how we can treat each other better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what that is the mission? And you
Speaker 2: have the words coming to you. How do you how
Speaker 2: do you set out to do? I mean, I know
Speaker 2: you spend some time in Spain and there's some great
Speaker 2: allusions to the moors and stars for instance, and like
Speaker 2: so what how do you start? But your kids are
Speaker 2: making incredible music, Like.
Speaker 1: How are you?
Speaker 3: How do you start to figure out? Like how I'm
Speaker 3: gonna put this together? You know?
Speaker 1: So I I start with, you know, really simple basic ideas,
Speaker 1: like you know, the first song I.
Speaker 3: Released was uh called you Can Make It?
Speaker 1: And I got a number one gospel record like that
Speaker 1: was that was like quite a treat. But it felt
Speaker 1: like the most basic, kindest thing that you can say
Speaker 1: to another human being is to recognize that, even though
Speaker 1: you don't know what they're going through, you know that
Speaker 1: everybody is going through something. You know, in this room,
Speaker 1: you look around, you know, every single person is going
Speaker 1: through something.
Speaker 3: That's what connects us.
Speaker 1: Somebody just lost a loved one, somebody's going through a breakup,
Speaker 1: somebody lost a job, somebody just got a diagnosis.
Speaker 3: Right like, all of that is happening in this room
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 1: You lost the home whatever, you know in Los Angeles, now,
Speaker 1: the fires, everybody's going through something. So to me it
Speaker 1: felt like foundational humanity is, hey, brother, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it is, but you can make it, you know.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to speak to that, you know, sort
Speaker 1: of collective difficulty that I think in understanding that difficulty,
Speaker 1: I think that it potentially creates a higher level of compassion.
Speaker 1: And then did it drift into let's kind of make
Speaker 1: this essentially a gospel song like playing that church.
Speaker 3: And that's just what happened.
Speaker 1: It was like I was looking for the sound that
Speaker 1: captured the spirit of you can make it, you know.
Speaker 1: And you know, Jason came in with the with the
Speaker 1: Sunday Service and he really really blessed that track.
Speaker 2: The Sunday Service choir on that is incredible man, And
Speaker 2: you did that performance and you had Kirk Franklin unbelievable
Speaker 2: man that.
Speaker 1: Was that was Chandler more. Also, you know, it's I'm
Speaker 1: really searching. I feel like a brand new artist right now,
Speaker 1: you know. I know I have nostalgia, you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm definitely gonna give people the nostalgia when I go
Speaker 1: go on tour and performing the old music. But I'm
Speaker 1: really looking for the next phase of my career, the
Speaker 1: next phase of my artistry. I'm trying to find that
Speaker 1: that next place, you know, and I'm really excited to
Speaker 1: try to put put words and imagery and sound to
Speaker 1: you know, the fire holes of ideas I'm experiencing. Do
Speaker 1: you think there'll be multiple projects like Beyond? I mean
Speaker 1: you're breaking into chapters.
Speaker 4: Multiple chapters, seasons, season three seasons, excuse three season. We
Speaker 4: were talking about the book I got on the chapter seasons.
Speaker 4: But it seems like you are you still like are
Speaker 4: you just is this something we're now of the everything's flowing, like,
Speaker 4: do you think it'll just keep the.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's there's nothing like music. There's nothing like music.
Speaker 2: What do you listen to day to day when you're
Speaker 2: not making music? When you were going back to maybe
Speaker 2: let's say twenty fifteen to twenty twenty before your music
Speaker 2: maker mode, Like, what do you was?
Speaker 1: I listened to back then, afrobeats was started to pop,
Speaker 1: and I was looking at a lot of global music.
Speaker 1: You know, are you trying to put like bumba stereo colia?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was looking at you know, what was
Speaker 1: happening in Korea. You know, they were really starting to
Speaker 1: to cultivate a music industry.
Speaker 3: They make pop songs as good as anything, unbelievable.
Speaker 1: You know, they really took off with television, the Korean
Speaker 1: Korean TV is wild right now.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it was.
Speaker 1: It was global music I was looking for, you know,
Speaker 1: the sounds of the world. I really feel like the
Speaker 1: the necessity of artists today is to get out ahead
Speaker 1: of politicians and make connections and make collaborations and create
Speaker 1: some understanding through through artistic exchange, you know, before the
Speaker 1: misunderstandings turn into military action.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the history of music really, Yes, is artists
Speaker 2: being out ahead of the politicians. We're going to go
Speaker 2: to Louisiana and Texas and cord Yes, absolutely, people on
Speaker 2: working fields and people you know, prison label We're gonna
Speaker 2: go record this stuff. And put it in, you know,
Speaker 2: and then that's how you get you know, rock and
Speaker 2: roll in the fifty years. So it's like that is
Speaker 2: the real explosion of creativity and music in the twentieth
Speaker 2: century we think about is from that. So the idea
Speaker 2: of getting back to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1: The the you know, global artistic collaboration in today's world,
Speaker 1: I think is imperative, Like it's a it's an imperative
Speaker 1: that we uh get to know each other and get
Speaker 1: to understand each other, and you know, for the first
Speaker 1: time in human history, the infrastructure is available for that
Speaker 1: kind of exchange.
Speaker 3: It's funny.
Speaker 2: I had a during COVID. I had an interesting experience
Speaker 2: watching the Tiger Woods documentary that was on HBO, Whereas
Speaker 2: you know, tigers is like incredible, right, She's insane, but
Speaker 2: you know, watching that, I was like, man, it just
Speaker 2: seems like he at some point do you see on
Speaker 2: the early footage with him on the golf course of
Speaker 2: his dad, Like it feels like at some point like damn,
Speaker 2: like people, maybe he doesn't have a connection back to that,
Speaker 2: Like it feels like in some weird way, you know,
Speaker 2: and his dad's gone. It's just it's just it feels
Speaker 2: like this, It feels like a great tragedy when later
Speaker 2: in life we still can't find some connection back to
Speaker 2: who we are these formative things, And yeah, I think
Speaker 2: my experience is I'm like I'm currently in that space
Speaker 2: of trying to like tap back into that deep well
Speaker 2: of like essential me, you know, and you know, life
Speaker 2: gets caked on top of it, you know, and the
Speaker 2: picking of a personality right is like, you know, we
Speaker 2: have this constellation of things that we're gonna let ourselves be,
Speaker 2: and then there's all these things over there that we're
Speaker 2: not gonna let ourselves be, and we imprison parts of ourselves,
Speaker 2: you know. So part of the process of what I'm
Speaker 2: experiencing is a little bit like a prison break, you know,
Speaker 2: to kind of open that scary place where I take
Speaker 2: a really good look at what I really am versus
Speaker 2: what I want people to think I am. It's it's
Speaker 2: amazing though, too, how we can even know these things.
Speaker 2: And because I mean you even have a cut from
Speaker 2: the Early Night, like uh, shadow self kind of essentially
Speaker 2: there what you're saying that you already know. It's like
Speaker 2: there's these different you pulled that one from Deep Cut Man,
Speaker 2: Deep hidden on the album people Sleep on That cut Man,
Speaker 2: People Sleep on that, People Sleep on You saw my
Speaker 2: blinker Will's cussing on records Now you hurt?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was two shorts favorite Jazzy Jeffyds Fresh Prince
Speaker 3: record where we went to Oakland and true short.
Speaker 1: Was like, that's the one that's You'll never make nothing
Speaker 1: better than that.
Speaker 3: You saw my blinker bitch incredible.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you one more thing before you go,
Speaker 2: just because I got you here. Is it true that
Speaker 2: you met Notorious b I g like for the first.
Speaker 3: Time the night he got killed.
Speaker 1: What in the world Let me tell you, Like, I
Speaker 1: don't even I don't even want to say this out
Speaker 1: loud because it's like it's like a terrible jinx. I
Speaker 1: met Biggie, you know, four hours before he got killed,
Speaker 1: and I talked to Prince eight hours before he died.
Speaker 1: I talked to Prince and he called and he was pitching.
Speaker 1: He was saying that me, him and jay Z should
Speaker 1: start an entertainment company. And he said he had talked
Speaker 1: to Jay and he wanted to do it. And we
Speaker 1: talked that night and in the in the morning, he
Speaker 1: was gone.
Speaker 3: I just I don't know what that says about me?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think it.
Speaker 3: Well, you have enough experiences in life. Look things happen
Speaker 3: like No, I'm like, don't call me, don't call me.
Speaker 3: You've had plenty.
Speaker 1: Of don't take it down. But that's got to be
Speaker 1: a disorienting experience. Just wake up and be like I
Speaker 1: just met this, you know. Or I just met this
Speaker 1: insanely talented, brilliant human and now they're or I just
Speaker 1: had a phone call with Prince who you know. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: the Biggie one. The Biggie one made me cry because
Speaker 1: it was it was like stupid, yeah you know, and
Speaker 1: it was like just centered on hip hop like for rapping,
Speaker 1: you know, and that that that one, that one hurt me.
Speaker 3: But it scared me too. Yeah no, but yeah, going there.
Speaker 1: Okay, man, all right, well.
Speaker 3: Man, maybe that was a dark note. That was good.
Speaker 1: Good. You're bringing the Brothers, bringing the rain, Okay, bringing
Speaker 1: the ring man.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks, I'm excited to hear the seasons. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: just this is uh. I'm excited to see what else
Speaker 2: comes of this.
Speaker 3: Man. It's been interesting.
Speaker 2: It's so fun to follow the journey on Instagram too,
Speaker 2: when you I mean just seeing what you were doing
Speaker 2: in Spain and the creation.
Speaker 3: Of the album.
Speaker 2: It's really cool having this this rollout and beautiful scars.
Speaker 2: The video came out this morning. It's just and it's
Speaker 2: for real fashion again. It's like red pill, blue pill, rational?
Speaker 3: Is them both?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yes, I love that. I love that idea. Nope,
Speaker 1: take them both. I want both things. It's incredible, you know.
Speaker 3: That's the that's the paradox of this whole thing. Man.
Speaker 1: It's like both answers are always correct. God will meet
Speaker 1: you down whatever road you go.
Speaker 3: May we all learn to live like you. Man.
Speaker 1: It just you know, have it all man, Hello, brother
Speaker 1: figured it. Appreciate it. I appreciate you.
Speaker 3: Thank you man.
Speaker 2: Thanks Will Smith for taking the time to drop by
Speaker 2: Amazon Music Studio one twenty six to walk Broken Record
Speaker 2: through his career, artistry, and new project based on.
Speaker 3: A true story.
Speaker 2: You can hear a playlist of all of our favorite
Speaker 2: Will and will ad Jason tracks in the episode description
Speaker 2: or by visiting Broken Record podcast dot com, and be
Speaker 2: sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pod.
Speaker 2: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken
Speaker 2: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose with marketing
Speaker 2: help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is
Speaker 2: Ben Tolliday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries.
Speaker 2: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider
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Speaker 1: Our theme music's by any Beats. I'm justin Richmond.