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Speaker 1: Nice to meet you.

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Speaker 2: Very nice to meet you. I'm a pretty big fan.

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Speaker 1: So, oh, thank you.

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Speaker 2: You're like the holy Grail of women entrepreneurs.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, I appreciate that. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 3: So I found you on social media. And you do

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Speaker 3: sort of like these therapy snippets on relationships in the

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Speaker 3: car and you have a practice, you have patients.

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Speaker 1: I do.

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Speaker 2: I have clients.

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Speaker 4: I'm a relationship coach and I've been running my practice

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Speaker 4: now for about four years. So it's been a real

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Speaker 4: blessing and a real joy. I was in academia before that.

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Speaker 4: I was the director of a clinical psychology program at

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Speaker 4: a university, and so I did that for a number

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Speaker 4: of years and taught in psychology.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so my question is one of the most intellectual

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Speaker 3: reasons I think that a person shouldn't have sex too early,

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Speaker 3: which we've all done, is because it could make you

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Speaker 3: so deeply insecure to blame. Like, let's say that you

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Speaker 3: have this thing right here, like, Okay, I've been out

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Speaker 3: with someone and on the first night, we're gonna do this,

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Speaker 3: and we're gonna do that, and oh my god, you're

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Speaker 3: this and you're.

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Speaker 1: That, and like I'm into it and I'm believing it.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, I'm an investigative reporter in my

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Speaker 3: own mind, not trusting any of it. I don't believe it.

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Speaker 3: There's no way that you don't. You feel as way

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Speaker 3: just with me, and you didn't feel as way with

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Speaker 3: someone two nights ago. And it could be possible we

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Speaker 3: have felt ways that we've never felt before, but it

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Speaker 3: could so. Now, if you sleep with someone and they

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Speaker 3: don't call you or interact or text in the way

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Speaker 3: that you want them to, you're blaming it on the

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Speaker 3: sex you don't and it might not be the sex

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Speaker 3: they might I've found that the guy that I don't

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Speaker 3: have sex with does this also, But if I had sex,

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Speaker 3: I'd be blaming all of it on sex. So it's

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Speaker 3: like a recipe. You added cilantro, you added garlic, you

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Speaker 3: added all these things. You don't know what it was,

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Speaker 3: don't know what the allergen was because you did all

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Speaker 3: the things.

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Speaker 1: So the only way to.

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Speaker 3: Find out what you're really allergic to or what the

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Speaker 3: problem is is like sort of they call it like

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Speaker 3: an elimination diet, you know what I mean, or or

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Speaker 3: elimination add on yes, or add one ingredient at a time,

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Speaker 3: and that's why it's the same thing as making your

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Speaker 3: own money. I'm not saying you have to make your

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Speaker 3: own money in life or use it. It just sets

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Speaker 3: you up for success not having sex. It's not slut shaming.

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Speaker 3: It's saying, like, we want to be able to assign

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Speaker 3: what ingredients are the problem, and you need to go

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Speaker 3: slow so you can see what's going on with a

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Speaker 3: new person.

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Speaker 2: I agree totally.

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Speaker 4: And there's hormonal things that happen to both male and

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Speaker 4: female that are very different after sex happens. So men

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Speaker 4: really thrive in the dating phase on vasipressin, which is

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Speaker 4: like the protector and provider hormone, which makes them want

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Speaker 4: to feel like they're protective over you, like you're theres

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Speaker 4: you know. It makes them want to claim you, It

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Speaker 4: makes them want to provide for you, do things for you.

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Speaker 4: And as you are bonding, macipressing will increase. Once you

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Speaker 4: have sex with them, it massively decreases.

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Speaker 1: Wow, And so.

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Speaker 4: Then that's where they get the I don't know how

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Speaker 4: like if we can say this on the podcast, but

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Speaker 4: the like post nut clarity right that that guys talk about, Wait.

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Speaker 1: Say it again, the post nut.

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Speaker 4: Nut clarity right, Well, after they have sex and then

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Speaker 4: they're like, oh my gosh, I don't really like this shick,

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Speaker 4: Like I just wanted to have sex with her, and

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Speaker 4: I couldn't tell the difference. And a lot of men

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Speaker 4: can't tell the difference if they really just want to

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Speaker 4: have sex with a woman or if they really like them.

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Speaker 2: So what I tell?

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Speaker 3: And then what does oral sex count for that for

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Speaker 3: a man or it's really being inside someone.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure exactly. I know that the studies have

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Speaker 4: really focused on you know, actual traditional sex, okay, additional

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Speaker 4: sex and vacapressing levels. But we see those levels drop

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Speaker 4: and they get this all of a sudden that can

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Speaker 4: make that strong instinct that I want to claim this person,

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Speaker 4: like really pull back, and all of a sudden they're like.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what did I do? Like I don't

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Speaker 2: well these feelings.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but that combined a woman who gets the oxytocin

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Speaker 3: and more cling because they have let someone literally inside

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Speaker 3: of them. It's different being inside of someone and someone

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Speaker 3: being inside of you you want like your The combination

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Speaker 3: is lethal.

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Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, And I was just about to say that

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Speaker 4: that women's oxytocin, which is their bonding hormone actually increases

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Speaker 4: after sex.

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Speaker 2: So we have this disparity.

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Speaker 4: Right between how women and men are handling post sex

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Speaker 4: clarity and wants and needs, And so I always tell

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Speaker 4: women and they don't necessarily love it, but I'm like,

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Speaker 4: hold off, you know, hold off as long as you can,

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Speaker 4: because essentially what has to happen is the guy is

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Speaker 4: going to go Okay, I didn't get it on the

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Speaker 4: first date. Do I really want to see her for

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Speaker 4: a second date? Okay, I see her for a second date.

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Speaker 4: I still didn't get it. Do I like her enough

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Speaker 4: to want to see her for a third date?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 4: I still didn't get it. Do I like her enough

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Speaker 4: to want to see her for a fourth date? And

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Speaker 4: they have to keep them actually asking themselves interesting, this

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Speaker 4: somebody that I want to connect with is our emotional

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Speaker 4: and personality connection enough to sustain me.

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Speaker 2: For a while.

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Speaker 3: And that's a man's logic, but a women's insecurity. And

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Speaker 3: now let's get to the real thing, because a lot

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Speaker 3: of moms are on here, a lot of women, a

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Speaker 3: lot of women dating in their forties and fifties, but

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Speaker 3: a lot of moms. So we're doing two things at

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Speaker 3: the same time. We are trying to tell our daughters

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Speaker 3: what this is the only thing they want and hold off.

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Speaker 3: But we have to get granular about it because we

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Speaker 3: know that as a fifty four year old woman, I

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Speaker 3: have been out with men, really liked them. They've been

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Speaker 3: powerhouse ball or men. It's felt good. And there have

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Speaker 3: been times when it's not that I did something I

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Speaker 3: didn't want to do.

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Speaker 1: It feels good.

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Speaker 3: Who cares where I might have gone further with someone?

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Speaker 3: Then I eat intellectually wanted to more for them, to

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Speaker 3: sort of like make them feel good and check the

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Speaker 3: box for them. And now men are manipulative just like

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Speaker 3: women are, and so our daughters. How are we if

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Speaker 3: we ourselves have done things that we don't want to do,

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Speaker 3: or maybe not done what we wouldn't want to do,

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Speaker 3: we wanted to do it, but regret it because we

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Speaker 3: didn't just say no, I'm not in my mind to me,

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Speaker 3: meaning I'm strong, I can tell a man no. It's

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Speaker 3: me to me And the weirdness of how to tell

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Speaker 3: a man no? So how are you telling us to

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Speaker 3: a tell our daughters exactly how to say no?

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Speaker 1: So it works?

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Speaker 3: So it lands with an adolescent boy who has blue

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Speaker 3: balls and then how are you telling us to tell

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Speaker 3: ourselves that it as middle aged women, as thirty year old,

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Speaker 3: as twenty year old, all of it, all the things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So it just brings to mind the fact that I

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Speaker 4: have a fourteen year old daughter, say fifteen now, right,

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Speaker 4: they're going to be getting into that stage where this

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Speaker 4: is a real sexual contact is a real possibility in

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Speaker 4: the next few years, right, I will do you.

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Speaker 2: I am forty three.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so you're younger, so great, But okay, so let's

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Speaker 3: go through. Give yourself the advice and give the child

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Speaker 3: the advice. But really how to land it? Not just

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Speaker 3: the concept of like, wait, okay, great, but how exactly.

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Speaker 4: Well, First of all, I think when I was that age,

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Speaker 4: if we're talking about like teenagers, I didn't really understand

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Speaker 4: all the consequences of sex. I mean, an unplayed pregnancy

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Speaker 4: is not the worst thing that can come out of

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Speaker 4: having sex. I mean diseases that can literally kill you

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Speaker 4: can come as a result of having sex, and you

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Speaker 4: can't necessarily tell who has those diseases and who to

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Speaker 4: you know.

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Speaker 3: I've never told that to my daughter. So that's the

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Speaker 3: first thing I have literally never I've told.

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Speaker 4: My and the statistics are one in five people have herpes,

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Speaker 4: and so you know, you can't necessarily tell that they

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Speaker 4: have it. They can live with it for years without

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Speaker 4: even themselves knowing that they have.

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Speaker 1: My daughter would react to that very much, yes.

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Speaker 2: Very strongly. So I believe mine would too.

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Speaker 4: And I've had that conversation and I saw it on

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Speaker 4: her face, so I believe that she didn't have that reaction.

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Speaker 4: I think for middle aged women we're a little bit

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Speaker 4: sort of more over the fear of sexually transmitted diseases

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Speaker 4: and that kind of stuff, like we're like, oh, we

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Speaker 4: can protect ourselves or whatever. But I think you have

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Speaker 4: to realize that they're significant.

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Speaker 3: We don't think about it that much. We really don't.

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Speaker 3: You're right, it's not discussed. We don't think about it.

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Speaker 3: And because we're a certain age where you're not going

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Speaker 3: to get pregnant, you really don't think about it. To

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Speaker 3: your point, we really don't think about it. Like it's

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Speaker 3: weird for a woman and man in their fifties to

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Speaker 3: be like, do you have a condom? It's like it's

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Speaker 3: like you're in college again. It's a very interesting thing.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it is a very interesting thing. But believe it

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Speaker 4: or not, I have a lot of clients that come

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Speaker 4: to me in their forties and fifties and say, I've

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Speaker 4: never had an STD in my life, but I started dating.

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Speaker 4: You know, I didn't even think about.

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Speaker 3: Us because they're also in their free spirit phase where

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Speaker 3: they'll do.

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Speaker 2: Or post of verse.

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Speaker 4: You know, they're selling their wild oats. Yeah, you're trying

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Speaker 4: to find themselves and boom they get hit with this

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Speaker 4: STD and then they're like, oh my gosh, like what

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Speaker 4: do I do? And sometimes it's you know, one of

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Speaker 4: the STDs that just doesn't you know, it doesn't go well.

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Speaker 3: Now, guess what my friend did tell a guy that

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Speaker 3: he has to be tested before they're going to have sex.

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Speaker 3: And you know what, I've had people say that they

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Speaker 3: want a personality test taken or just like anecdotally the

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Speaker 3: what we talked.

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Speaker 1: About with an attachment test.

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Speaker 3: But I think that's a very not for a teen,

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Speaker 3: but for a woman our age my age, George, that's

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Speaker 3: an empowered growing thing and a ball or move to

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Speaker 3: say to a man, I want to get to know

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Speaker 3: you emotionally in addition to intimately, but I would need

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Speaker 3: you to take a test, And I think they would

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Speaker 3: think that was fucking sexy as fuck for a woman

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Speaker 3: to say that to them.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think that you know your needs and

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Speaker 4: your wants are valid, whatever those things are for me personally,

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Speaker 4: what I did when I met my husband, I had

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Speaker 4: just gone through a big healing journey.

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Speaker 2: I had been single for over a year.

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Speaker 4: I had, you know, done all the stuff to work

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Speaker 4: on my attachment healing, and I was ready to put

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Speaker 4: myself on the dating market. I dated a couple of

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Speaker 4: people that you know, it just didn't take off. I

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Speaker 4: wasn't very interested. And then I met him and I

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Speaker 4: did know after a couple of dates, like, wow, I

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Speaker 4: really have something special, some special feelings for this guy.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: So basically just laid it on the table, and that

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Speaker 4: way I knew I would hold myself accountable. I said,

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to have sex with you until we're

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Speaker 4: in a committed relationship. I'm not doing it like until

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Speaker 4: i'm yours and yours you know, there's exclusivity in this

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Speaker 4: ERAa and.

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Speaker 3: The way that's a confident thing to say too. That's

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Speaker 3: a confident thing to say too. I don't have sex

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Speaker 3: unless'm going to I'm in a relationship. You're allowed to

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Speaker 3: have that as your code. We want to get into

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Speaker 3: the kids and what we're going to say to them

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Speaker 3: next too. But that's a code that because the gray

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Speaker 3: is where you get confused. If you have like a code,

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Speaker 3: that's it, that's that's it. So I like that as

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Speaker 3: a code, and that's my new code.

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Speaker 2: I just didn't want him to worry.

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Speaker 4: I just didn't want myself to worry about him going

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Speaker 4: in sleeping with other people if I was sleeping with.

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Speaker 3: Him, or you don't want to feel like someone's not

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Speaker 3: going to call you to the point of what I

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Speaker 3: said before, like I'm you know, unless you're in that

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Speaker 3: sex and city Samantha phase which I don't go through,

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Speaker 3: which some women are. You want to go out and

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Speaker 3: get laid, fine, then someone has to use a condom

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Speaker 3: or they have to get tested. You're allowed to be

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Speaker 3: in a sexual relationship. But for me, you are correct.

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Speaker 3: I'm not having sex with someone unless I'm going to

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Speaker 3: commit a relationship. It's extremely black and white. But I

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Speaker 3: don't think I've ever said it like that, and I

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Speaker 3: think that's I've said. I want my emotions to catch

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Speaker 3: up with my physicality, but it's not quite as strong

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Speaker 3: as what were you just said.

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Speaker 4: Right, and then I also, you know there's some confidence there.

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Speaker 4: There's some confidence there there. I'm saying it's compatible. You

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Speaker 4: know this is going to be going somewhere. There's a

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Speaker 4: level of respect for each other that has been developed.

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Speaker 4: There's a level of hoity and be able to show

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Speaker 4: that they are capable of giving you what you need

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Speaker 4: outside of having a sexual relationship.

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Speaker 1: No, yes, but I.

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Speaker 3: Think there's a confidence. I think you could get two

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Speaker 3: things accomplished. I think number one, there's a confidence there

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Speaker 3: with both people. But I think a woman saying to

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Speaker 3: a man who's at the level that like is a

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Speaker 3: catch that she thinks is a catch, saying to him

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Speaker 3: that makes him think she's so much more of a catch,

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Speaker 3: Like that's just such a strong, confident thing to say.

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Speaker 3: So I think you get more than one thing accomplished.

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Speaker 3: It's my new thing.

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Speaker 2: I do too.

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Speaker 4: And then I think it weeds out the bad guys

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Speaker 4: that are just like Harry and get laid right, so

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Speaker 4: you know they're going to weed themselves out. And I

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Speaker 4: would say, go see you, you know, don't let the

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Speaker 4: door hit you on the way out. And I think

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Speaker 4: also too, just being able to know that what does

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Speaker 4: happen there's a level of comfort there that has already

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Speaker 4: been established.

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Speaker 1: It felt really.

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Speaker 2: Good, it felt really safe, exactly. It felt so safe.

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Speaker 4: And I think people underestimate the psychological vulnerabilities and the

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Speaker 4: psychological and emotional impacts of having sex with somebody that

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Speaker 4: then turns around and you know, abandons you or betrays

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Speaker 4: you or whatnot because you didn't establish a connection and

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Speaker 4: a level of trust. And what I tell people is, listen,

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Speaker 4: you're in charge of your own body. Go do whatever

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Speaker 4: it is you.

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Speaker 2: Want to do.

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Speaker 4: I'm not going to shame you. I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: try to, you know, tell you that you should or

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Speaker 4: shouldn't do something. I'm just trying to hear to tell

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Speaker 4: you the risks and what could actually benefit you by

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Speaker 4: delaying sex is by keeping around a guy that is

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Speaker 4: becoming more confident that he wants to be with you

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Speaker 4: even in absence of that thing, which for a man

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Speaker 4: is a pretty big like revelation that they can have.

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Speaker 3: No And I yes, and I think for my daughter,

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Speaker 3: because that's as important as what we're saying, more is

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Speaker 3: more important.

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Speaker 1: I would say what you.

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Speaker 3: Said about diseases and what I mean, I would also

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Speaker 3: talk about what men are like and that also you

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Speaker 3: don't they're going to react to It's hard for you

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Speaker 3: to understand. But if you do it, they're going to

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Speaker 3: respect you have a less likely chance of them liking

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Speaker 3: you after sadly, and and they and they get what

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Speaker 3: they want. And I would also say that a child

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Speaker 3: can also should not be having sex, but you can't.

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Speaker 3: It's like saying they shouldn't be drinking. We can't control

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Speaker 3: of that. Should be saying I won't do this unless

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Speaker 3: I'm in They can say it too, unless I have

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Speaker 3: a boyfriend. But then also, uh, they have to use

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Speaker 3: a condom. It's gonna it's harder for them. And that's

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Speaker 3: why we have wanted pregnancies and STDs. But I have

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Speaker 3: to make sure that that's landed. But it's also like

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Speaker 3: saying I know a lot of people. I heard recently

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Speaker 3: j Loo saying that she never drank even though she

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Speaker 3: launched a liquor brand, but then she I don't think

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Speaker 3: she markets that anymore, but that she never drank because

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Speaker 3: her mom just said to her that it was bad

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Speaker 3: and her reasons. And I'm like, look, it takes a

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Speaker 3: strong person to not drink and to say it with confidence,

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Speaker 3: but you can do it, and that's the same thing

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Speaker 3: as sex.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think so she give you more confidence, right,

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Speaker 4: because everybody else around you is probably gonna be giving in.

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Speaker 4: And so they're there is you know, a nature of

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Speaker 4: men that they want the special one, right, they want

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Speaker 4: the gazelle, they want the one with the high standards.

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Speaker 4: And I think men inherently know if you're sleeping with

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Speaker 4: them on the first or second date. Inherently they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm not the only one you've done this with nort

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Speaker 4: telling me I'm special and that you don't usually do this.

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Speaker 2: But they're not buying it, right, No, No.

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Speaker 3: And then also the hard thing we're dealing with too

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Speaker 3: is that, like I'm in my mind, we're so naive

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Speaker 3: and we have so many blind spots. As parents, I,

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Speaker 3: in my mind, have been most focused on the substances,

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Speaker 3: the drinking, the possibility of drugs arising. I have literally

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Speaker 3: not been thinking about the sex at all. I have

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Speaker 3: not been thinking I have a fifth Yeah, I'm good

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Speaker 3: like so to Yeah, so homework for you parents. We're

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Speaker 3: all naive, we all think it's never gonna happen to us,

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Speaker 3: and it's not our kid. So I would give you

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Speaker 3: guys the homework to now go deal with both. It

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Speaker 3: could be separately, but deal with both things like deal

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Speaker 3: with the sex of it and the drugs of it

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Speaker 3: and the alcohol of it, because.

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Speaker 1: They're both in existent. Like we were all kids.

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Speaker 4: I think we take the wrong approach when we're just like,

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Speaker 4: don't do it. That's it exactly right, like we're not

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Speaker 4: talking about this. I think you need to make your

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Speaker 4: child feel comfortable enough with you to be able to

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Speaker 4: talk about it, because if they do eventually get themselves

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Speaker 4: into a bad situation, you want them to be able

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Speaker 4: to come to you and tell you so you can

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Speaker 4: help them problem solve that and work that out and

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Speaker 4: be okay emotionally when if and if that does happen.

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Speaker 1: This is what's happening tonight. This is my night, is

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Speaker 1: my evening, is my homework. Awesome.

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Speaker 3: You were amazing. I'm so I would love to have

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Speaker 3: you on again. It was really excellent.

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Speaker 4: Thank you so much. I enjoyed chatting with excellent. Love

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Speaker 4: your TikTok videos. I love how you just you know

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Speaker 4: what you just say. Whatever it is like is really

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Speaker 4: you're really passionate about and authenticity is so regulating to

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Speaker 4: the nervous system, and I find you incredibly authentic. And

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Speaker 4: I think that's why I enjoy your TikTok, because oh

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Speaker 4: I appreciate it, just like you know what, Chase screwed

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Speaker 4: me over today and I'm gonna and I'm gonna freaking

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Speaker 4: talk about this.

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Speaker 1: They certainly did, and many people as well. Awesome. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much.

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Speaker 2: You're so welcome, Bethany, Thank you so much for inviting me.

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Speaker 4: It was a of course, have a great day you too,

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Speaker 4: Thank you, good Bye,