WEBVTT - Michael Connelly 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.200 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:17.400 My guest today is writer Michael Connelly. Michael, Hey, how 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:19.840 are you? Thanks for having me on your show. Okay, 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:23.160 so where are you right now? I'm in Los Angeles 0:00:23.800 --> 0:00:27.920 on lockdown, hunkered down status, whatever you want to call it. Okay, 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.600 So you're living in Los Angeles now? Yeah? Yeah, okay. 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:36.559 So how's the self quarantining working for you? Well, I 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:39.920 can't complain because I'm somebody who from most of my 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.360 life I've worked from home, you know, writing books and 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:47.000 solitude and uh, up until I got involved a TV show, 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:48.600 that was what my life is like. So this is 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:51.040 a bit of a throwback to the way I've been 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:57.200 for most of my um creative life. So are you writing? 0:00:57.240 --> 0:01:01.440 What is filling your time these days? Well? It's interesting because, uh, 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:05.800 I raped very contemporary stories set in Los Angeles and 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.480 the um you know, the virus thing happens and you 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:11.360 don't know the end of it, so it's very hard 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.760 to be creative about it. And I was in the 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.640 middle of a Lincoln Lawyer book that was actually set 0:01:16.640 --> 0:01:20.720 in April of this year, and that doesn't work anymore 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.039 so because I don't know what's gonna happen. So I 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:27.720 lost about a month and a half of creative quandary, 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.920 wasn't really doing much at all. And then I kind 0:01:30.959 --> 0:01:33.360 of said, I'm going to back the book up started 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:36.559 in December instead of April, and bring it up into 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.240 the start of this virus and maybe reflect a little 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.400 bit on that um. And then I got going again 0:01:42.440 --> 0:01:44.760 and I got some good momentum, and that's where I'm 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:49.840 at now. Now I'm now though, I'm I guess bothered 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:52.520 by the question of will people want to read about 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.320 this virus after we've all lived through it. I mean, 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:57.800 it's not gonna be the main emphasis of my book, 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:01.080 but it's gonna be on the news, and the impending 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:05.040 plague coming is going to be part of it. You know. 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.639 I think that's over analyzing because I remember yesterday in 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.680 the New York Times they had Jury Seinfeld interview and 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:15.240 he taped his special before the coronavirus, and they're worried 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:17.960 about what people can handle. I think primarily people are 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:20.560 reading your books because they're fans of you, and then 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.760 they turn other people onto the books. Would you agree 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:25.440 with that? Well, that's the hope, you know, that's the 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.640 domino effect, you think. You hope it has, you know 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.200 that people read the book and spread the word about it. Um. Yeah, 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.160 I do think that there's a part of this audience 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.200 that my audience, that's that's gonna go with me where 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.680 I go. And that's great to have. But you know, 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:45.600 these questions always kind of filter into your thinking anyway. Okay, 0:02:45.680 --> 0:02:49.320 let's let's when you do right, to what degree are 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.480 you thinking about the audience? Um? Not a whole lot. 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.320 I mean you do in general, you know, like um, 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.799 in terms of I try to be very as I said, 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:02.400 you were reflective of what's going on in the world, 0:03:02.480 --> 0:03:05.160 and and that includes politics and so forth, and so 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.080 I you know, I wrote a book, for example, uh, 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.160 maybe a year ago I think it came out or 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.840 two years ago called uh, two kinds of Truth. I 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:20.000 think it was called It's Weird I'm having my own books. 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:24.200 But in that was was you know, a meditation on 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.680 what is truth then? And who should be telling the 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:29.440 truth no matter what? And this was at a time 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.480 where in politics people were constantly talking about is the 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.560 president lying as the president not lying? And and and 0:03:36.240 --> 0:03:40.200 and it's and truth became a political issue and that 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.400 wasn't really what I wanted to put into the book, 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:44.840 but that's how people read it. And you know, so 0:03:44.960 --> 0:03:48.320 you do get social media. Um, you get social media 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:51.440 return on what you do. I do as well, and 0:03:51.480 --> 0:03:56.040 so it was interesting to see people take my meditation 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.080 on the truth and what it means in the wrong 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:03.600 way and take it through a political um uh strainer, 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:08.360 if you will, um and react negatively in a lot 0:04:08.400 --> 0:04:12.000 of cases to my books and positively in other ways. Well, 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.440 I guess being specific about that, since you wrote about 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.800 truth and tomp Trump, I would assume the negative feedback 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:23.440 came from supporters of Trump, irrelevant of the misinterpretation. As 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.480 you move forward, are you anxious about alienating that part 0:04:27.520 --> 0:04:32.120 of your audience. I would say earlier in my career, 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.080 I would have I would have had to have been. 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:37.400 But now I'm on the tail end of my career 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.520 and I have a I don't care type of attitude 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:44.400 towards that. But I but definitely, early in your career, 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:46.440 you know you're trying to sustain a career, and you 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:50.680 just sustain it through readership and growing readership. So don't 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.240 do anything that might dampen that readership. I mean I 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.839 write about law and order. These are things that normally 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:02.039 skew towards conservatives, and so there's a big population of 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.120 conservatives I believe that read my books. I mean, it's 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.320 this is all anecdotal. This is not anything I can 0:05:09.080 --> 0:05:11.520 say that we've done studies or anything like that. We're 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:15.640 not that sophisticated in the publishing business. Um. But I 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:17.680 was more aware of it back then that I was 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.880 in the last decade or so of my career. And 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.080 that's why something like this could happen. That I just 0:05:24.120 --> 0:05:27.320 put something in there that, um, you know, I think 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:32.039 the line was even president's lie, president's plural, and that 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:36.320 really set some people off, even the president. Sometimes president 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:40.400 must have to stand naked, as Bob Dylan said. But 0:05:41.040 --> 0:05:44.400 I'm interested. I'm just a couple of years older than you. 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.599 Do you think your attitude changed about this when you 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:53.120 turned sixty. You're a few years past sixty. I don't 0:05:53.160 --> 0:05:55.000 know if I would. Uh, I didn't have like a 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.920 big sixties moment. I think I had more one when 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:02.359 I was fifty turned fifty about being on the You know, 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.120 in my mind, I'm thinking about you're walking up a 0:06:04.200 --> 0:06:05.640 roof and at some point you hit the top of 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:07.480 the riff and you're going down and it's and it's 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:10.719 supposed to be easier, although it really isn't. Um that 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.520 happened to me when I was fifty. Um, sixty kind 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:15.800 of came and went from me. So I don't think 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.520 that that had that kind of effect on me. Well, 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.320 I'm the reverse fifty was a breeze. Sixty I'm still 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:27.680 trying to recover from. But uh, now, the whole landscape 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:31.760 of media has changed. As you've alluded to earlier, the 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.800 book business is rather archaic. But if you the only 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:40.800 person with universal mind share is Donald Trump, so what 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.799 do we know? You have an established audience, you still 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:46.599 have to make them aware of the fact that a 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:49.920 new book is coming out. But did you have any 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:55.360 dream of even further cultural penetration which is now frustrated 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:58.960 as a result of so many messages and it's hard 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:03.760 to get any worry out there? Um, I don't think so. 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:06.960 I mean, that's that's a pretty deep question. And you 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.560 know I can always retreat to, hey, I write mysteries, 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:13.560 but you know the reality is that's that's the front 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.520 of the book, and I wouldn't be doing this for 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:20.800 so long and it's such a every day applying my 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:24.640 trade level of it, if I didn't have at least 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:28.080 secret motivations to tell story of a higher meaning or 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:33.000 a higher connection or a higher residence. And you know 0:07:33.120 --> 0:07:37.280 they again not going back to sixty, but a coincide 0:07:37.280 --> 0:07:39.120 it kind of I'm like about to turn sixty four, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.200 so kind of coincided with when I turned sixty. They're 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:47.560 the divisiveness that has entered the politics of our world 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:51.640 has spilled out into everything, and therefore it does become 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.160 um here, you know, writing a story about a guy 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.560 just trying to solve a murder in Los Angeles becomes 0:07:57.600 --> 0:08:02.280 political without that being your intention. Um. And so that 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:05.600 you know, I probably haven't even answered your question. I've 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:08.680 going off on a tangent here, but said something. You 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.120 said you had goals. I guess let me make it 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.280 more to the point. I believe when someone is an artist, 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.080 and you're an artist, your main goal is to reach 0:08:17.360 --> 0:08:21.400 as many people as you can with your message. Of course, 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:24.679 you want to be remunerated, but you want to reach 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:28.520 as many people. That is inherently difficult for everybody. So 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.240 was that part of your dream or did you reach 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:35.080 an establish your audience a million books per book, and 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:38.640 that was satiating. Oh, I see what you're saying. No, 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.319 And I don't think I'd ever be satiated. And I 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.880 wish I could get to that level of a million 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:47.040 uh readers a book. I don't think I'm there, but 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.360 um there maybe in a list of libraries are doing 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:51.400 a lot of work for me that I'm there. But 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:55.440 um yeah, I mean I think you know. And and 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.599 it's not like I'm trying to be high salutin or 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.240 uh you know, didactic of anybody. I'm not trying to 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:05.160 tell anyone how to think. I'm trying to write about. 0:09:05.240 --> 0:09:07.240 For the most part, let's just talk about Harry Bosh. 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:11.199 He's the guy who's the through line of my creative life. 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.199 Um started with him and hopefully will end with him, 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:18.120 whenever that is. And I just think he sets an 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:23.720 example of fairness. You know, everybody counts or nobody counts. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.120 That's his message, and that would be my message. And 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:28.560 that's that's pretty simple, and that's and you'd think it 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:33.360 was something that would have universal agreement, but it turns 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:37.320 out it doesn't. Um, there's the politicalness in that statement. 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:41.520 Everybody counts. M nobody counts, um, you know, and and 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:46.280 so that kind of has infected That's probably too strong word, 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:49.760 but that's kind of infiltrated into my thinking and into 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.800 my work and how and how it's responded to. And 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:56.840 you know that's something I, you know, really can't control. Okay, 0:09:56.880 --> 0:10:00.440 someone like you with a profile, you a lot of 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:04.600 opportunities to, let's just say, hang out with the people 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:07.480 on the other side of fairness. Are you more of 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:12.040 an introvert or do you uh take the opportunities to 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.079 go to parties, to go to yachts, to hang out 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.160 with some of these household named people. I'm definitely, I 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:21.120 mean it goes to that question about how my faring 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.920 with the lockdown. Um, I'm definitely an introvert. Um. It's 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.079 it's just a weird contradiction because I think most writers 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.360 are You're comfortable being in your own little world. You know. 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.600 My little world is my laptop and what I put 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:36.040 into it, and then I send it out into the world. 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.440 And so once a year, usually for about four weeks, 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.400 I have a book come out, and I'm supposed to 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:44.760 be the opposite of that. I'm supposed to be out there. Uh, 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:48.880 you know, touring talking about this being on podcasts that 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.280 are very cool and so forth, and um, that's not 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:56.880 really my lifestyle. Um so I don't, you know, to 0:10:56.960 --> 0:10:59.679 use your examples parties and and things like that. I 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.000 don't do a lot of that. I am lucky in 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:08.880 that my books have um connected with some people that 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:15.439 are well known and culturally important, and um, I've been 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:18.199 invited to meet with them and things like that. And 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.480 it's it's it's that's been, you know, pretty amazing that 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:26.040 that I'm drilling down on the fair in his thing. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:31.319 Obviously we're talking to coronavirus era and David Geffen posted 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:36.160 on Instagram that he was self quarantining on his yacht. Now, 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:40.240 he's well known for choosing people to come hang on 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:45.520 his yacht. So if somebody chose, somebody invited you, whomever 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:47.920 it is, to come stay on their three d FT yacht, 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.640 would you say wow, great opportunity, or in the back 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.080 of your brain say well is this fair? Should I 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.080 be doing this? I see what you mean. Well, I 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:59.040 mean it's uh, at first of all, that's never happened 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:01.520 to me, but um, well they must have the private 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.280 jet example where someone is saying, hey, I'm going here, 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:07.360 come ride with me, or let's go for the weekend somewhere. 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.640 I think you're giving me more social and cultural importance 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.679 that I deserve because that that hasn't really happened to 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:17.840 me either. But um, you know I I I think of, um, 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.720 you know, different gatherings that I've been invited to, like 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.880 intellectual or cultural gatherings that I've been invited to, and 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:30.720 I actually find that my introverted nature comes out of 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.400 these things and I don't contribute in a fair way 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.320 to to the ideas being exchanged and so forth. So 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.560 usually those kind of invites a short lived I don't 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:41.880 get invited to the next one, you know, that type 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.920 of thing. Um, but I enjoy being there when I can. Well, 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.080 the interesting thing is you're very articulate and you have 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.320 no problem speaking. Many introverts I was just stroying the 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.920 Times about this the other day, once they can be 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.520 dragged to the situation, all of a sudden, they light up. 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:01.520 Does that happen to you? Or you're anxious and you're 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:07.240 still anxious when you're there a little bit of both. Um, 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.120 It's funny you start with the idea that you're an 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:13.080 introvert you're You're fine being in your room by yourself. 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:17.280 But I'm a storyteller, and there's something very egotistical about 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:19.760 announcing that you're a storyteller and that you're going to 0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:22.360 write books, because that means you think your book should 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.080 be read and they should be translated into movies and 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.400 in the TV shows and everyone in the world should 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:31.199 know your stories. That is not an introverted um view 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.800 of the world. Um, And I can I can kind 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.440 of knock it down to to something that's happened to 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:41.000 me in recent years, and that is part you know, 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.080 it's that roof again. For part of my career, I 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:45.120 was going walking up the roof are I was climbing 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.920 up the roof, trying to get established, trying to get 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.800 more readers, trying to get more attention. And so you know, 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.679 I did like forty city book tours and things like that. 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.360 And in each of these things, you you stand up 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.560 and you you explain yourself, and it's a speech, and 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.400 it would weigh heavy on me coming up of what 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.120 I would say. I didn't like the idea of doing 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.120 it by road and saying the exact same thing, right 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.960 down to the little side jokes. Every every night. I 0:14:13.000 --> 0:14:15.920 just don't do that, And so I would be trying 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:20.440 to tailor every night a new discussion that centered around 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.600 the same thing for sure, um And it just was 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.840 so hard and it was so debilitating that at some point, 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.360 when I passed the crest of the roof and was 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:33.440 on the downside, I said, I'm not doing any more speeches. 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:35.840 I told my publicists and so forth in my publisher 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.480 I'm not doing any more speeches because it's not just 0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:41.640 the thirty minutes that you're giving that speech, it's the 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.680 days leading up to it, thinking about that speech and 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.120 worrying about it and and and it takes away from 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:50.360 what I do, and that is writing my book. So 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.040 I stopped doing that, and I said, anytime someone wants 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.280 me to be on the stage, put someone with me, 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.600 and let's do a Q and A. That's how I 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.760 do it, exactly. And and and what happens is that you 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.320 go on and on and everything, like right now, every 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:08.080 answer becomes a speech. But because you were asked the question, 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:11.400 there's some kind of of a social acceptance and being 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:13.760 asked the question that you can just go on and 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.640 on and and and you know, keep talking. And I 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:19.760 think it's more interesting that way. I think it was. 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:22.320 It was one of those things like, Man, I can't 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.400 believe for fifteen or twenty years, I had to work 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.280 on all these speeches all the time, when when the 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:30.920 people who are in attendance are the people who are listening. 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.720 Got much better insight into who I am and what 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:36.880 I do and what my characters are about. When I 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.280 answer questions as opposed to just, you know, trying to 0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:44.520 pontificate with a speech, well, as I say, I totally resonate. 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:46.760 And I felt good about it because I once interviewed 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.760 Michael Lewis uh and it was the same thing. He 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.120 has a question. I can make up my own questions, 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:55.200 but you don't have to cogitate and speak at the 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.120 same time. It's much different when you can just answer 0:15:58.120 --> 0:15:59.960 the question. You can go down your nooks and cranny, 0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.280 but if you're speaking, you're saying where you're going. Let's 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.760 go back to this issue with fairness. Okay, two things. One, 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.920 this is your personality in general to how do you 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:15.280 try to send the message such to change the world. 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:18.400 I think it does come out of my personality because 0:16:18.400 --> 0:16:21.160 it comes out of my you know, growing up and 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:24.760 I had a big family, and then there's always fairness issues, 0:16:24.840 --> 0:16:28.080 like with six kids, and my parents had this. So 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:30.960 it's not something I've originated. It's just something that was 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.520 bred into me by my parents and my brothers and sisters. 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.120 And so I've tried to, you know, uh, put it 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:41.320 into my books and and I just you know, I'm 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:46.640 not trying to change the world, as you say, um Forthfully, 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.800 I put the message in people in my books who 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:54.240 are very to my to my this is my take, 0:16:54.280 --> 0:16:57.520 and you know I'm not saying it I'm right. I'm 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.200 just saying this is what I think. I think the 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.240 characters I've about face long odds and what they're doing, 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:07.360 they face difficulty, and most often they have to they 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:08.679 come to a point where they have to make a 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.119 choice to do the right thing at great expense to 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.640 themselves and those they love. And that's like the noble 0:17:17.119 --> 0:17:20.639 moment of of every book. And and that's where the 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:24.760 fairness comes from. So I'm not trying to announce to 0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:27.080 the world everybody counts, but nobody counts. I'm just writing 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:30.320 about a guy who has that at his core, and 0:17:30.359 --> 0:17:35.479 hopefully that message comes across and um and it wins 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:39.320 people over or people take it as a social cue 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:42.480 or take it like, hey, I want to be like that. Um, 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.840 I want to I want to be uh noble too. 0:17:46.560 --> 0:17:49.000 And you know, that's just a little ripple. It's a 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:52.160 pebble in the in the lake. And maybe the rings 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.639 go out and change some same lives and and in 0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.240 a way, maybe that helps change the world. Um, so 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:02.960 you're talking about now you're on the downward slope. I 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:07.120 won't give it a negative connotation, but speak to your 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:11.960 motivation to continue to write books. I'm just the luckiest 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:15.720 guy I know. I mean, I have this facility to 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:19.800 do this in the first place, which you know, there's 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.919 there's a part of it is learned and part of 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:24.840 it is practiced, but a lot of it is just 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:30.200 mystical and it just has happened, and um, I can't. 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:32.679 You know, I have to treasure that. I have to 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.560 nurture it. I had to take care of it. And 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:38.959 that means writing every day. That's I mean, that's my answer. 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:40.960 I feel like I got to write every day. Okay, 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:44.680 So hypothetically, if you wrote and you knew no one 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:48.119 would read it, would you still write? I think I 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:51.040 would because that's how it started. For me, I wrote, 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:53.919 you know, my first book was published when I was 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:57.800 thirty five, but I've been writing for myself and at 0:18:57.880 --> 0:18:59.639 night and learn. I mean part of it as a 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:04.159 learning experience, obviously, but but I was having great fulfillment 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:06.280 doing it. And you know, I wrote two books that 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:08.040 I didn't think we're good enough, and no one has 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.720 ever read other than myself. And I love those books 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.080 because the second one was way better than the first, 0:19:15.080 --> 0:19:18.919 and so I could see myself getting better. And you know, 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.960 I think at some point you'd finally get swallowed by 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.959 like the feelings of fruitlessness and in it. And I 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:29.200 didn't have that, luckily. But it was a long time 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:31.920 from the point, you know, I said, hey, I want 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.119 to write novels. I want to and very specifically, I 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.639 said to myself and my parents, I want to write 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:42.040 crime fiction. That's what speaks to me. And it was 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.240 like almost twenty years later before I was holding a 0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.000 book that I that, you know, a real book that 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.159 was that was getting published. Um, And so that was 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:52.120 a long time. But I don't look at it as like, Wow, 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:55.560 what a long journey, what a difficult up up slope 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.040 or whatever you wanna call it. It was. It was 0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.399 a fun time because I didn't know anything about the 0:19:59.440 --> 0:20:02.720 world of wishing, and I didn't know about the pressures 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.040 and and other things that would come once I did 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.560 get published. So I don't know. It's one of those 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.600 answers where I say, yes, I would still be doing 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:12.960 it for myself. But I think most people listening to 0:20:13.000 --> 0:20:16.000 this would go like, yeah, right, Well, let's go back 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.040 to the beginning. There are how many kids in your family? 0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:24.600 Six including me? And where are you in the hierarchy? Um? Second, um, 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:28.240 the oldest boy. Okay, so you got a little because 0:20:28.280 --> 0:20:31.560 normally the oldest gets all the attention. Uh. This goes 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.399 back to our earlier topic in terms of feedback. But 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.080 in the world we live in, yes, the world we 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.720 grew up in, there was more attention towards the mail. 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.480 So to what degree were you the fair haired boy? 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:47.200 Was there attention on you? Um? I think my parents 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:51.800 were pretty equal and and um and delving out the 0:20:52.160 --> 0:20:54.040 pats on the head and so forth. I mean, I 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:57.199 think I was a fair haired boy. Um. But the 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.920 way it went was my sister was born, and then 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:03.160 three boys, and then two girls, and so the three 0:21:03.200 --> 0:21:06.159 boys were I think we're five total five years apart. 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.359 All together, we were born in a five year period, 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:11.480 and so we've always been close and we always did 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.959 things together, like you know, with our father, we had 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.960 a natural golf force on them, for example, and we 0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:19.199 would all go golfing and things like that. So I 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:22.080 think there was you know, my brothers would be first 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:26.280 say yeah, I was a favorite. I think there wasn't one. Okay, 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.320 now there's been a lot of documentation. Uh, there are 0:21:29.320 --> 0:21:32.760 a lot of children and Mormon families, and the Mormons 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.560 tend to win the reality shows the people from Utah 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:39.400 because they can get along. So growing up with five siblings, 0:21:39.440 --> 0:21:42.200 are you the kind of guy who's an iconic lass 0:21:42.280 --> 0:21:45.760 or you can get along? No, I think I can 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:48.680 definitely get along. I mean, I don't know how rare 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:53.120 it is, but we're Uh, the six of us are 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:57.119 all still live. I think the six of us was 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:00.560 you know, Irish Catholic family. So I think all six 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:04.320 of us were born in less than ten years. And uh, 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:07.560 you know, we get together all the time. Uh, we 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.840 have traditional get togethers at Thanksgiving and at least another 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:15.080 time during the year and still a very close knit family. 0:22:15.160 --> 0:22:20.400 Even though we're far flung in six different states. That's 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.919 kind of funny. Okay, so you're born where Philadelphia and 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.480 then you at what age you moved to Florida. I 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:31.680