WEBVTT - Roberto Castro - Part 1 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.160 Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:08.479 Frida Egg Podcast. We are back with new episode here 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:13.119 in the New Year with PGA tour player Roberto castro So. 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.639 This will be a two part podcast, with the second 0:00:16.760 --> 0:00:20.880 half of this podcast posting later this week. Happy New Year. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:24.680 I hope everybody had a great holiday and enjoy Roberto 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:26.079 castro I miss a. 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.840 Green for example, I'm already upset when I find my 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.000 ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:33.440 find my ball in a brid egg, Frida Egg, the 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:37.440 dreaded Frida Egg, Friday, Frida Egg, fridagg bride Egg Lie, 0:00:37.520 --> 0:01:03.160 I'm about ready to run off the Yeah, well that's 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.240 one of my questions. We can talk about it when whatever, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.560 during the when it comes up. But like, is it 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:11.000 possible to separate like the course from the club, you know, 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:13.360 like that is like such a huge like thing in 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.319 my opinion, you know that I don't think, you know, 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:18.560 I'm not to get like all like Malcolm Gladwell, but like, 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.280 you know, is it is it because of the membership 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.240 and the club and the prestige or the history or 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.040 the course or the you know, like the nostalgia I 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.000 don't know, there's just so many pieces that I think, 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:33.039 like some of these clubs get you know, like I 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:35.039 mean the list when you guys had this conversation the 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:37.679 list you went down, it's like, oh, he was like 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.560 Cyprus and Pine Valt and it's like yeah, but that's 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:42.760 like walking into a church and when net g Illinoy 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.280 and being like, I don't know, like Saint Patrick's Cathedral 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:47.280 just like gets it right in New York. You know, 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.640 it's like yeah, okay, sure it does, but like not 0:01:50.800 --> 0:01:55.040 every you know, like there's just I don't know, it's 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:56.880 just the you know, like when we talk about like 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:58.760 golf or where it should go, it's like, well, look 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:00.680 at these places like when you butt in the locker 0:02:00.760 --> 0:02:03.120 rooms are metal and it's like, yeah, but you could 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:05.240 get that an Alpharetta Georgia. People will be like this 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:07.400 is the dumbest thing I've ever seen, you know, Like 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:10.679 there's it's just a hard like I think people get 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:14.440 really nostalgic for things that are very unique, you know, 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:16.560 that are now replicable. 0:02:16.720 --> 0:02:20.560 You know it's funny. I uh so like col Club 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.120 and San Francisco. Yeah, so San Francisco Golf is obviously 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:29.000 like the the super exclusive one, the one where like 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.120 nothing's changed, you know, you're like going back in time. 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.040 You know. I've grown to appreciate the no cell phone rule. 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.040 Like I love just putting it away, Like I like 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.440 you leaving it in the car, and like, yeah, outside 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.639 of like the fear of some crazy thing happening, you 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:48.240 like for the most part, like you're you're gonna be fine, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.600 and then you enjoy your day so much more. But 0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:56.640 like so like COL Club is like if so, I 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.959 think San Francisco Golf Club is a much better golf 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.240 of course, right, But Cal Club they did this big 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:08.760 restoration or renovation really and they completely overhauled like the 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:13.000 vibe and the the the membership of the club with 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.959 this restorate. Like their their thought was like if if 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.400 people are complaining about what we want to do and 0:03:19.440 --> 0:03:22.840 making it really golf centric, then like that's fine, let 0:03:22.919 --> 0:03:25.400 them leave because those aren't the members we want. And 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.440 they've completely overhauled the membership with this whole you know thing. 0:03:29.600 --> 0:03:32.600 And it's like that's a perfect example. Like so San 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:36.480 Francisco Golf Club, at my point in my life, I'd 0:03:36.560 --> 0:03:38.680 rather be a member of Cal Club than San Francisco 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.480 golf club because like cal Club would be I would 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:45.360 fit in more there. You know, they have a vibe, 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:48.520 they have they have more games, you know, you it'd 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.040 be way easier to find a game to play. You know, 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.200 the people that I'd be playing with, I'd have more 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.480 in common with. So I think that is like there's 0:03:56.520 --> 0:03:59.160 a lot of things that go into a club. Like 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:01.280 and it's like when I was a member at a 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:05.840 club in Chicago, it was you know, it was in 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.640 the wrong part of town and so it had fallen 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:12.320 on tough times they needed members. But like I was 0:04:12.360 --> 0:04:16.719 twenty eight when I joined, and I joined, and then 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:18.400 like I got a bunch of my buddies that I 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:21.599 played midday I'm golf with to join. So you know, 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.200 the golf course wasn't great. There's way too many trees, 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.560 you know, it drove me insane. But I had like 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.480 forty guys that were threes or less to play with, 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:34.320 you know, and that that makes a huge difference. That 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.679 makes a place, It makes a place special. I always 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:38.960 tell people, like, you should join a club that you 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.080 know you're going to have good games. 0:04:40.760 --> 0:04:47.240 At, and there's so many I don't know. I think 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:50.840 it's very like people and like the current you know, 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.200 like social media, golf Twitter verse, like they want to 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:57.680 ascribe like off to like one thing, you know, and 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.680 it's like like people who really love golf, like it's 0:05:00.680 --> 0:05:03.680 because of good architecture or it's because of and it's 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.200 like no, people like they're like ten different, Like I 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.520 hear like yours the one you're talking about. You joined 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.880 your boes. It was a fine course. We had forty 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:14.880 guys in the scratch game every day and you those 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.760 were like scratched afore. And then the club I joined, 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.560 We planned it in college. Could college really high end 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.880 like suburban club. The course was in one of Doak's 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.800 books as a zero on the Doak scale. Okay, a zero, 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:31.960 but I'm telling you those members, we had such a 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.080 good group of guys, and those guys have kind of 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:35.839 stay from that club of the year since. But like 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:39.960 they're golf nuts, they're going to the UK every year. 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:43.039 They joined other Like these guys are junkies, and we 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.840 all were at a place with a dope zero but 0:05:45.960 --> 0:05:48.360 it didn't matter. Like the course was in pure shape 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.440 and it was like fancy and the service was you know, 0:05:51.520 --> 0:05:55.880 like I'm just saying there's something different ways doing the came. 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.560 If you think it's just good golf architecture, why how 0:05:58.600 --> 0:06:01.400 does that explain the like bowels or millions of people 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:03.760 that go to a driving range and golf balls after 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:07.520 work every day, you know, like even play it, so 0:06:07.720 --> 0:06:11.080 like want to hit balls off a mat. So you know, 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:14.520 there's just if there's no one solution for like either 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:17.480 growing the game or like explaining why people like it 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:18.080 or why. 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:22.640 I think golf course architecture is so important in the 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:25.400 sense of like most people don't know why they like 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:31.159 certain courses and everything. And if if people played better golf, 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.400 if there was more better golf, people would play more 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:38.279 golf and it would be less expensive. Because really good 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:43.039 golf architecture is actually way more simple than the stuff 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.320 that offends someone like dok or myself. Like you know, 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.120 look at Augusta when it opened, it had twenty two bunkers. 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.240 You know, Brandon Is diverted a lot from it, but 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:58.159 like twenty two bunkers is is the maintenance budget on 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.119 that is a fraction, and it'd be It's the same 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:06.560 thing as like letting courses be living organisms, letting them 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.760 you know, kind of brown out, not having to have 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:13.280 everything be lush and perfect like. That's I think the 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.800 aspects of of golf that kind of gets swept under 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:18.680 the rug, and in a lot of ways, I think 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:23.240 where people people have unrealistic expectations because of what they 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.440 see on TV. It was like when the Tour when 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:29.680 uh they were at Trinity Forst this year, and the 0:07:29.960 --> 0:07:32.760 and the Golf Channel like jacked up the saturation levels 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.640 on the TV to make Triny Forrest look more green. 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:38.840 Oh really, that's interesting. 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.480 Did you play that? You're in the one you're gonna 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.600 play You're gonna play that next year? 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:46.840 Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:47.960 That's quoil Caddy. 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:50.920 Uh went work there and he said it was pretty sweet. 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:51.920 He said it was cool. 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:58.680 Yeah, So what, uh, what's it? You know, You've you've 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.320 had an interesting uh career where you're one of the 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:06.760 rare guys that's gone Tour Championship to Web and then 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.480 back and then back. But what do you think the 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:13.880 biggest difference between the Web and the PGA tourists. 0:08:15.680 --> 0:08:17.120 Man, it's totally different. 0:08:18.520 --> 0:08:22.320 I mean I played Web in two thousand and eleven 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:25.160 and then six years on tour, and then I played 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.400 WEB last year and now much changed on the Web. Honestly, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:33.640 in my six or seven years, the tourist changed a lot. 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:35.240 But the Web really hasn't changed much. 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.440 I mean, the golf courses are totally different. You know, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.840 they're much shorter and they're much less penal. So literally 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:45.400 anyone in the field can win a Web tournament. And 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.520 you see that like this year, like ten guys won 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.760 that did not finish in the top twenty five. You know, 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:53.040 you can go like five miss cuts in a row 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:55.960 and then win a Web tournament because if you can 0:08:56.000 --> 0:08:57.560 get it out there and have a really good putting 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:00.640 week and hit you know, you can win. You don't 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:04.200 really see that on the tour, Like guys that went 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:08.360 on tour are trending in that direction generally, or they're 0:09:08.480 --> 0:09:10.680 very very good players that have been through like a 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.400 you know, a bad stretch or whatever. But there's not 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.160 like the Web rookie that you know, has missed six 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:19.720 of his first eight cuts and then like wins Byron Nelson, 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.480 Like that doesn't generally happen. But on the Web tour 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:24.520 every year there's guys that just you know, they're one 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:26.920 sixtieth on the money list, they've made one cut and 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.720 then they peel off twenty five hunder, you know, somewhere 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:33.800 in the Midwest in July and they win. So it's 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.920 it's totally different. They'll play anywhere on the web, literally anywhere. 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.600 That's what I was looking at, Like Cameron Champ and 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.640 I was, you know, he got off to such a 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.760 good start in the fall, and I was thinking to myself, like, 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.040 how come he wasn't more dominant on the web. And 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:50.800 I started to think about it. I always thought that 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.400 that that web courses might favor bombers more, but that 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:57.920 made me kind of realize that it actually, like the 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.439 shorter courses give every everybody a shot. 0:10:03.000 --> 0:10:04.080 Totally yeah. 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.040 I mean, if everyone is hitting nine iron or down 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:11.160 on a shorter, easier course, you know, being seventy yards 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:12.960 is not that big of an advantage of being. 0:10:12.800 --> 0:10:13.680 One hundred yards. 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.720 It's a much bigger difference when for seventy versus one twenty. 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:19.880 It's a big difference when I'm two hundred and he's 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.200 one fifty. That's a wedge and a five iron, you know. 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.480 And look, it doesn't necessarily mean that like the wrong 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.200 guys are having success out there. The golf course that 0:10:30.240 --> 0:10:34.760 he won in Utah was the most nothing course that 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:38.520 I saw this year. Like it was though it was 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:40.520 just an you know, not to be mean. It's a 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:43.800 fine little country club, you know, neighborhood course, but it 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:47.840 was the most nothing course. And he won. And you know, 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.640 the Web finals had a buddy from Tech who was 0:10:50.679 --> 0:10:53.560 there in Arizona, and the scores were just insanely low. 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:57.440 The web dot com Q School Finals, Yeah, and the 0:10:57.480 --> 0:11:00.800 scores were insanely low. And I don't follow college golf 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.320 that closely, but I know what the right, you know, 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.600 the big names are. And it seemed like of the 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:10.520 ten big names, nine of them finished in the top forty. 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.520 And then that Thornberry kid, you know, shot like ten 0:11:13.600 --> 0:11:15.400 under the first day and kind of got stuck and. 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.040 Didn't finish in the top forty. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.560 But all the other kids that were all Americans at 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:22.840 the big schools, and you know, the Norman Jong's and 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:25.560 the you know, the kid from Texas, Scottie Scheff, all 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:29.360 those kids, like, yeah, they all finished in the top forty. 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.840 And the course was obviously a nothing course where you know, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:34.880 just kind of a everyone said, if you kept it 0:11:34.880 --> 0:11:36.760 out of the desert, it was then the easiest course 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:42.760 in the world, So you know, it's not necessarily like 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.679 the best players are still the best players even if 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:47.520 you go play a you know, kind of a rinky 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:52.600 dent course, you know, and and they have their certain challenges. 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:52.840 To the Web Tour. 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:54.959 You know, I don't blame them. Some of the courses 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.480 are pretty disappointing. But hey, if there's a sponsor and 0:11:57.520 --> 0:11:59.960 there's a town that wants to host the tour, you know, 0:12:00.080 --> 0:12:01.800 they're just going to play where they can play. It's 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.640 that's I mean, on the list of five things that 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.360 need to happen to put together a web course, you know, 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.520 the courses pretty far down that list. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.840 Yeah, I think I think the thing with the Web 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:19.160 Tour that that frustrates me is that no other sporting 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:26.480 league subsidizes the senior tour their senior circuit over their 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:31.280 developmental tour, like you know, minor league baseball. The minor 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:35.160 league teams are clearly supplemented by the by the big 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:39.120 league team. And to me, that's where it kind of 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.080 falls short, is that this is the tour that's responsible 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:47.000 for developing your next wave of stars, and you subsidize 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.920 the aging stars that have already made their money, who 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:53.559 are already in the pension program and you know, getting 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:55.160 theirs like they've already gotten theirs. 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.960 Yeah, but that tour is not responsible for developing the 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:01.840 next generation of the guys that end up in the 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.240 top ten or twenty in the world, that become the 0:13:04.240 --> 0:13:07.400 next generation of tour stars. They either play one season 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.679 there or they play zero seasons there. It's just not 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.120 it's not a you know, they're not responsible for developing. 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:17.520 It's more of a way of identifying. It's more of 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.160 like a season long qualifier in my opinion, And if 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.600 you look at it that way, you know, I would 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:25.520 do some things differently if you look at it as 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:29.760 basically a season long qualifier. But you know, the tour 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:32.960 they're smart. The persones haven't gone up. You know, I 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.240 was gone for six years, and the purses are the same, 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:38.120 but traveling is more expensive. Caddies are you know. I 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:39.960 mean how ten twelve years ago they were playing for 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:41.960 almost the same thing they're playing now. The Web Tour 0:13:42.040 --> 0:13:45.520 is financially not very viable unless you finish in the 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.079 top twenty five. You can break even or make a 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.720 little money. But the tour knows that as the carrot 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.520 gets bigger and the purses go up on the PGA Tour, 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.160 they could play for zero money. They could announce today 0:13:57.160 --> 0:13:59.560 that there's zero purses for the web dot Com schedule 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.319 next year, and they would fill the fields right now. 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.520 Because if you get your card, you're playing for seven 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:08.760 million every week the following year. So the you know, 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:13.800 I means the incentives to play for a million dollars 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.440 a week on the tour, on the web tour, or 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:20.760 subsidize it. From the tours business perspective, it's not really there, right. 0:14:22.040 --> 0:14:24.200 So you said to you, if you were looking at 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.720 it as a season long qualifier, you'd change some things. 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.480 What would be a couple of things that you change. 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:31.840 Well, I'd make the schedule more travel. You know, I 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.080 played when I turned probably played mini tours, and I 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.320 drove to the tournaments and we played for one hundred 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.400 and fifty grand or two hundred thousand dollars purses. But 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:42.600 you drove and you carried your own back or you 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.680 rode in a cart, and you could do it and 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:47.840 you could make some money. You know. Kisner and I 0:14:47.880 --> 0:14:50.720 always talk about how, you know, we were lucky when 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:53.160 we were playing minis, like we made money, especially for 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:57.760 being twenty one, twenty two years old, and that's those 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.360 main tours have kind of gone away for whatever reason. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.720 I'm not sure if it's like PGA Tour Canada and 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.960 China or Latin America. I don't know, that's a different, 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.120 you know topic, but I would you know, if you're 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.640 looking at it as more of a qualifier, you maybe 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.480 you have sixteen tournaments and there's four tournaments in Florida, 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:17.080 and then when it's July, there's four tournaments around Chicago, 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.640 and then you know, when it cools back down or whatever, 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.360 you have to go out to California or to the 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.560 desert in Arizona. But you make it to where maybe 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.600 you're not playing for as much, but you're not spending 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.040 as much. I mean the amount of them. I mean 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.120 to you know, this buddy of mine who played at 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.560 Georgia Tech. He's a really good young player, Vince Waley. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.040 He went through the Q School. He finished in the 0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:42.200 top forty and lost money at Q School even with 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:43.600 the you know, they give you a bit of a 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:46.000 check for finishing the top forty. You know it's going 0:15:46.080 --> 0:15:48.080 to cost him fifteen twenty grand to go play the 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:53.920 first five tournaments. You go to the Bahamas for two weeks, Colombia, Mexico, Panama, 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.200 you know, ten fifteen thousand bucks. And if he makes 0:15:58.240 --> 0:15:59.800 that money back, he's going to be like near the 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:03.840 top twenty five of the money list, you know. And again, hey, 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.040 you go have a good year out there. Another tech 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:08.160 kid that finished like third or fourth on the money list, 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:10.520 you know, he made three hundred something thousand dollars. That's it. 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:12.480 You know, even if you spend one hundred or one 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:14.320 hundred and fifty, that's a hell of a good year. 0:16:14.400 --> 0:16:17.800 You know, coming out of college, there's definitely opportunity to 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:22.680 make money out there. But if the purses continue to 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.920 not in like simple inflation ten years from now, they're 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.000 still playing for six hundred grand a week out there, 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:32.160 and but you're flying all over the country, it's completely untenable, 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:32.480 you know. 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.160 So yeah, I agree with that. I got a buddy 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:38.680 who's now five straight years. He's so he's made through 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:42.200 every stage of Q school for five straight years, but 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.120 he's never you know, his he gets the web tour, 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.040 he hasn't played great on any year. And it's and 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:50.440 I look at it him just like god like from 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.280 a financial standpoint, like he you know, he's going to 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:55.080 run out, you know, like he's going to run out 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.120 of cash, and he's you know, clearly one of the best, 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:01.960 you know, six hundred players in the world probably, right, 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.040 And it's like, God, what a tough gig. If you're 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:08.520 if you're one of the six hundred best basketball players, 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:10.960 you're playing for millions of dollars in Europe at least. 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.959 Yeah, it's yeah. And you know, like some people are like, well, 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.040 if you go get your MBA, you know, you pay 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:21.680 one hundred grand or whatever, and you don't make any money, 0:17:21.680 --> 0:17:24.320 you're not earning in your job, and it's an investment 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.399 in your future earnings and the web Tour you can 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.400 look at it that way, and hey, that's one way 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.200 to look at it. But when you get your MBA, 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:33.040 you're almost guaranteed to have future earnings as of in 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.560 whatever your career is, you know, the Web tour or 0:17:36.640 --> 0:17:39.560 any developmental golf, you know, any kid turning pro, there's 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.600 no guarantee you could do that for ten years and 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:43.720 you never make the tour and then you're starting kind 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:46.080 of from scratch. So I don't think that's you know, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.199 kind of a perfect analogy. But you know, if you 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.639 make it. It's like, well, you know, I've busted it 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:54.280 on the web tour for a year or two and 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.320 kind of broke even and whatever. But now I'm playing 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.840 for big money. That works out, you know for those guys. 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.840 Well you could be like Omar, You're usty and just 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.600 become like the sensation of the PGA circuit. 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:08.760 Just crush the section event. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:15.320 So you've You've talked a little bit about your You 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.040 went to Georgia Tech, and I think it's one of 0:18:18.080 --> 0:18:21.600 the things I find unique is you graduated with honors 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.919 an industrial engineering degree from the you know, it's the 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:30.080 top industrial engineering school in the country. Uh, what would 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:31.840 you what would you be doing if you weren't golfing. 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:34.639 That's a good question. 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:39.120 I don't know, you know, I think just like people romanticize, 0:18:39.200 --> 0:18:43.040 you know, professional golf. I think, you know, I romanticize 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:46.000 like my buddies of corporate jobs or you know, have 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:48.840 done really well in that world. So you know, you'd 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:50.800 like to think that, like you get the consulting job 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.040 out of college and you go back in business school 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:55.560 or or something like that. But it's just hard to say. 0:18:55.640 --> 0:18:57.400 You know, I also have friends that went that root 0:18:57.440 --> 0:19:00.840 for a while and then ejected because they, uh, you know, 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:04.240 that's not as glamorous as it sounds. It's hard to say, 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:08.120 but you know, when I turned pro, it was too 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.720 I had finished school in two thousand and seven. I mean, 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:13.560 things were booming, like my you know, classmates were like 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.399 taking multiple offers from big companies and you know, and 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.120 I was like hauling off to you know, Connapolis, North 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.919 Carolina to play for you know, fifty bucks in a 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.480 mini tour event. So it was you know, I was 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:28.080 kind of like, well, well, you know, we'll see how 0:19:28.119 --> 0:19:31.080 this goes. And then you know, two thousand and eight happened. 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.440 And then a couple you know, a Georgia tech guy 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.600 older than me that had played for a couple of 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:40.240 years and then was in the workforce, a real estate guy. 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.359 I mean it was two thousand and eight, two thousand 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:44.879 and nine, and he was like, man, I'm talking to 0:19:44.960 --> 0:19:46.879 like you know these guys, I'm like, I might as 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.240 well just like play mini tours now, like the opportunity 0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:52.920 there's just no there's no business, there's no deals, there's 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.840 no you know everything. When every the bottom fell out 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:57.840 of everything, he was like, maybe I should go back 0:19:57.880 --> 0:19:59.760 and play golf, Like there's nothing, you know, so it's 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:02.360 kind of just timing of when things happened. 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.240 But it's hard to say exactly what i'd be doing. 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:06.000 Who knows. 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:10.159 Yeah, it's it's funny. I Uh, after I graduated college, 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:13.879 I played some good AM stuff and I thought about 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.840 playing and I had like a moment where I you know, 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:21.439 I didn't play in college, and but I was, you know, 0:20:21.680 --> 0:20:24.040 I could have played some other places. And I was 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.400 sitting in a hotel and I can't remember what part 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:30.440 of Florida, and you know, it was around New Year's 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.040 and I'd just seen all my friends and I was 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:35.400 just like, what the fuck am I doing down here? 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:36.199 You know. 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:38.760 And it's like you got to have like a you 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:40.960 got to have a deep burning desire is what I 0:20:41.040 --> 0:20:43.240 learned really quickly. And I was like, I don't really 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.320 have this, and I don't know if I'm good enough 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.879 to do this. It's uh, but it's it, you know, 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:52.320 the dream is uh. In that time, I graduated in 0:20:52.600 --> 0:20:56.040 nine and so like that that time is you know, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:58.280 it was like the job market was so bad it 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:01.120 didn't you know, going and checking it out for six 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:02.320 months wasn't a big deal. 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:07.359 Sure, yeah, yeah, it's it's different though that I mean, 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:08.919 I talk about it a lot with my brother and 0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:12.199 the coach at Tech. You know, when I finished. You know, 0:21:12.200 --> 0:21:14.320 it's about the same time as you. They were guys 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:16.760 on my team obviously that played golf at Georgia Tech's. 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:19.879 They were really good players and they did not turn pro. 0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:22.359 You know, it was kind of like, man, like I 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:24.679 was kind of the five to six guy, or you know, 0:21:24.720 --> 0:21:26.840 maybe I was like the four guy and played most 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:28.679 of my time here, but like, no, I'm not going 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.960 to play pro golf. And man, this generation now like 0:21:32.040 --> 0:21:34.760 across the board, I mean, like my brother's twenty six, 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:37.879 like all those kids are turning pro, you know, and 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:40.200 I it's I don't know if it's a millennial thing 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.000 or or what, but I just want to be like 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.640 guys like you know, like it is like if you're 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:48.680 the you know, if you're the five or six guy 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.080 on a college team, like, you know, you got a 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.680 long you got a lot of long way to go 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:57.879 if you're going to make a living doing this. But 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:00.240 you know, guys do it for either a short time 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:01.480 or they you know, they. 0:22:01.359 --> 0:22:02.040 Figure it out. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:04.879 But it's definitely interesting to watch the kids, uh that 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.080 are coming up now, you know, And I, like I said, 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.560 I was very fortunate the many tour situation was so 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:12.600 different for those couple of years after I turned pro, 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:14.200 so different. 0:22:14.760 --> 0:22:16.000 I was lucky in that regard. 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.600 It's so to me the you know, the tour has 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:22.840 changed in the last yeah, kind of since like I 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:26.040 would say Jordan Speed twenty twelve ish. You know, it's 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:28.800 like when we first have seen this, it's like, what 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:31.879 do you why do you what would you attribute to 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:36.680 this like mass wave of youth talent that's coming into 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:40.600 the game. And essentially unlike any time before you've talked 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:42.879 about you and Kissner, I look at like Kissner is 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:45.920 a perfect example of like he's like an all round guy. 0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:48.959 He's you know, I think I don't think last year. 0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:50.960 I think the year before he finished top forty in 0:22:51.119 --> 0:22:53.919 every strokes gain category and it and you look at it, 0:22:53.960 --> 0:22:56.399 he's a three or four time All American. But it 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.080 still took him five six years to get to the 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.439 get to the PGA Tour. And it's like, you know, 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:08.520 that guy now is there you know within two years. 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:12.280 Yeah, it's a good question. And I think for the 0:23:12.320 --> 0:23:15.119 guy that played golf in college for four years, like 0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:20.359 like Kisner myself or Cooch or Snedeker. You know, I 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:22.399 think the prime of your career was kind of the 0:23:22.440 --> 0:23:26.040 traditional like call it thirty to thirty three, twenty eight 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.439 to thirty two. You know, maybe that that was the prime, 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:31.720 But I mean I don't think that's the case anymore. 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:34.520 I think it's you know, it's honestly, it's twenty to 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:38.800 twenty five and twenty to twenty eight, and this generation 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.800 that's now like reaching that. I mean, Jordan, I mean, 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:45.600 you know, I mean those couple of years that Speed had, 0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:49.720 I mean that had twenty one twenty two, I mean 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:51.480 some of the best years in the history of golf, 0:23:51.520 --> 0:23:54.719 and Justin Thomas did it super young. And even McElroy, right, 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.119 I mean he's you know, his best years were in 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:01.480 his early twenties. But I think the biggest difference is, 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:04.199 like you nail it. I mean, if you play like 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.880 kids or I play, you have to be really good 0:24:06.920 --> 0:24:09.320 at all parts of the game. And for a week 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:11.760 to have a good week, you have to hit it good. 0:24:11.800 --> 0:24:14.800 You have to drive it well, you have to chip 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:16.440 and put it well. You have to have a good 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:19.240 week on the greens. But if you hit it three 0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.240 hundred and thirty yards in the air and straight. Some 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:25.080 weeks you really just need to have a good putting 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:27.760 week or a really good driving week where you hit 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:32.879 it super straight to have like an amazing week or 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:36.400 to win. And there's less of like the learning how 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:38.120 to play. And I'm not saying these guys can't chip 0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:39.760 and putt, and they don't. They know how to chip 0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:42.480 and putt, that's you know, and they know how to play. 0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:45.879 But like you know, Ogilvie kind of talked about it 0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:48.080 when you spoke with him, like you had to learn 0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:51.400 how to play, and I think I fell in that category. 0:24:51.520 --> 0:24:55.600 Maybe kids might have too, you know, but there's not 0:24:55.720 --> 0:24:57.560 that much of a learning curve when you can hit 0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:00.280 it three hundred and thirty yards dead straight and put 0:25:00.400 --> 0:25:03.919 well and you're polished and you you know, you played 0:25:03.960 --> 0:25:06.440 the ajaga, you played at a big time college, even 0:25:06.480 --> 0:25:09.320 if it was just for a year or two, you've 0:25:09.440 --> 0:25:13.520 just had way more experience and you're not you just 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:17.160 the expectation is totally different. Like when I turned pro, 0:25:17.440 --> 0:25:19.879 there was like one or two guys a year that 0:25:19.920 --> 0:25:23.119 would get maybe their PGA Tour card, and there was 0:25:23.119 --> 0:25:26.880 three or four guys a year that like were recently graduated, 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.080 that would get on the Web Tour, that would make 0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:30.760 it through Q School to the finals and get on 0:25:30.800 --> 0:25:34.280 the Web Tour. But the expectation for most people, not 0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:37.399 Anthony Kim and not Dustin Johnson. Those guys are my age, 0:25:37.520 --> 0:25:41.359 my year of college, and Dustin obviously just crushed the 0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:43.600 tour school and then he's the best player in the 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:47.119 last ten or twelve years, him or Rory. But the 0:25:47.200 --> 0:25:50.320 expectation was like you had to get your legs under you, 0:25:50.320 --> 0:25:52.919 you know, get better and get out there. And you know, 0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:55.520 I mean, golf's all mental. If the expectation now is 0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:58.200 to do what Justin Thomas did, then there's a decent 0:25:58.280 --> 0:26:00.240 chance that Cameron Champ is going to do it. You know, 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:03.040 it's just what you believe is possible and what you 0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:05.439 believe you can do and what your expectation is. 0:26:06.119 --> 0:26:07.040 It shifts everything. 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:10.440 You know, it may not be more than a mentality. 0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:12.320 I mean, Jordan was the you know, kind of the 0:26:12.359 --> 0:26:15.760 first one, right, So that's it. 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:18.719 I'd never thought about like the expectation and the mental 0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:21.240 side of it, but that's it's so spot on because 0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:29.200 now if you're a really highly regarded college player. You 0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.800 turn pro, you've seen all of your peers, guys that 0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:35.600 you've beaten, you know, guys you've competed against for you know, 0:26:35.840 --> 0:26:38.520 ten years of your life. Go do it. It's like 0:26:38.600 --> 0:26:41.960 it's not as tall as a task, it's not as intimidating. 0:26:43.200 --> 0:26:46.400 Yeah, it's it isn't it's you know, it's expectation. It's 0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:49.040 mental where you see yourself and it had and it 0:26:49.200 --> 0:26:50.919 you know, that's fifty percent. And then it has to 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:53.880 match up with a skill set. But the most important 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:56.560 skill set on the tour is driving it eight hundred 0:26:56.560 --> 0:27:00.000 miles and putting really well. Yeah, and those these kids 0:27:00.160 --> 0:27:00.479 have that. 0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:01.720 They have that skill set. 0:27:02.080 --> 0:27:04.760 So you know, it's not just I believe in mine. 0:27:04.800 --> 0:27:06.600 There's a lot. You can believe in yourself all day. 0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:08.240 I can believe in myself. I'm not going to play 0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:10.240 in the NBA even if I think, you know, but 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.040 these kids have the skill set to match. They have 0:27:13.240 --> 0:27:16.879 the two or three skills that are most important for 0:27:17.000 --> 0:27:19.520 playing in today's On today's. 0:27:19.160 --> 0:27:25.439 Tour, distance has obviously always been a huge advantage. But 0:27:26.200 --> 0:27:29.000 I look back to like Hank Keeney and Hank Keeney 0:27:29.320 --> 0:27:32.919 hit it really far you know, he was you know, 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:36.840 essentially camera Champ before Camera Champ, but that era he 0:27:36.920 --> 0:27:39.879 did not succeed, you know, in terms of you know, 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.399 how he could you know, drive the ball, Like what's 0:27:42.520 --> 0:27:46.359 changed that? Now? You know these guys hit it that 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:49.400 hit it far that don't you know that do almost 0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:52.040 every other aspect of the game at a below average 0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:55.200 PGA Tour level. All of a sudden they make our 0:27:55.320 --> 0:27:59.400 top you know, thirty players. 0:27:59.520 --> 0:28:02.359 I don't know, but I would guess two things. One day, 0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:05.959 hit it insanely straight. Dustin hits it so straight it 0:28:05.960 --> 0:28:09.720 makes your eyes water. I mean, it's incredible how straight 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:12.760 he hits it. And Brooks I've never played with Brooks, 0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:14.639 but it seems like the same. I've played with Dustin 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:17.200 the most of those guys that are like top five 0:28:17.240 --> 0:28:20.080 in the world. He hits it so straight. And I've 0:28:20.119 --> 0:28:24.119 played with McElroy a few times and he HiT's so 0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:26.960 straight and just turning it on TV. Do you know 0:28:27.000 --> 0:28:29.200 how narrow the fairways are when you carry it three 0:28:29.240 --> 0:28:31.359 hundred and thirty yards and then if it rolls out 0:28:31.680 --> 0:28:34.760 well like I watched Rory flipped on like Riviera last year, 0:28:34.800 --> 0:28:38.200 so he gets to like ten eleven twelve, turns a 0:28:38.200 --> 0:28:40.240 little to the right and he drives it down there 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:43.120 three hundred and fifty five yards in the fairway. He 0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:45.120 has to land that ball on the right side of 0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:47.480 the faraway so it can run to the left side 0:28:47.480 --> 0:28:50.120 of the fairway at three hundred and fifty yards. It's 0:28:50.160 --> 0:28:53.000 an and he's doing it hole after hole after hole. 0:28:53.000 --> 0:28:56.239 It's unbelievable how straight they hit it. And then they 0:28:56.320 --> 0:28:58.280 chip and pot too. You know. Cameron Champ led the 0:28:58.320 --> 0:29:01.360 field and putting I think in Mississippi and then at 0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:03.160 rs M and Sea Island. I'm not sure if he 0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:05.440 did that for four days, but I think sitting around 0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:08.720 breakfast on Sunday, they were showing the stat that he 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:12.240 was leading the field and putting for three days at RSM. 0:29:12.840 --> 0:29:15.239 You know, the chip and putt like crazy, you know, 0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:17.960 and and they hit it long and straight. So I'm 0:29:17.960 --> 0:29:20.720 not sure what you know in the previous generation that 0:29:20.760 --> 0:29:24.280 those guys were either more crooked or more one dimensional, 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:26.360 meaning that's like the only thing they could do was 0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:26.960 hit it far. 0:29:27.480 --> 0:29:28.960 But that's not the case anymore. 0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:32.239 It's you know, this is this is good. It's going 0:29:32.320 --> 0:29:35.600 to make give me a reason that I have to 0:29:36.200 --> 0:29:38.840 I have to finish writing this thing. I found a 0:29:38.920 --> 0:29:43.280 really interesting academic study the other day. I got on 0:29:43.400 --> 0:29:47.240 this rabbit hole about tennis, you know, and tennis is 0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:50.600 you know, changed over the years, and I've found this 0:29:50.680 --> 0:29:55.880 study that these two students looked at the change from 0:29:55.960 --> 0:30:00.120 wooden to composite rackets and tennis and how it how 0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:03.960 it changed the you know, skills that succeeded in tennis. 0:30:04.160 --> 0:30:07.480 And it was a study to examine like workforce, right 0:30:08.000 --> 0:30:11.200 instead of because you can't study like what technological change 0:30:11.240 --> 0:30:14.200 can do to workforce because people's careers are fifty years, 0:30:14.720 --> 0:30:16.840 So they looked at tennis because it was six to 0:30:16.880 --> 0:30:19.880 fifteen years. And it was fascinating that, like when there's 0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:24.080 a major technological change in the in tennis, all of 0:30:24.080 --> 0:30:29.040 a sudden, the skills that are rewarded are changed. So, 0:30:29.720 --> 0:30:32.200 you know, tennis used to be all about precision, all 0:30:32.240 --> 0:30:35.000 of a sudden, that composite racket allowed for top spin, 0:30:35.440 --> 0:30:38.800 so players with power and top spin all of sudden 0:30:38.880 --> 0:30:43.479 became extremely dominant in the sport, I believe it. So 0:30:43.480 --> 0:30:46.120 it's a fascinating thing. I think there's so many parallels 0:30:46.120 --> 0:30:48.800 and to my from what I can think of, like 0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:51.960 the only real sports that have you know, had this 0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:58.760 major technological change or golf and and in tennis, yeah. 0:30:59.200 --> 0:31:00.719 Yeah, And I don't know if it was the pro 0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.240 v that flies straighter or if it's the drivers. 0:31:03.360 --> 0:31:08.160 I think the combination of the head size, TrackMan and 0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:11.680 the ball, because like those are three major innovations. 0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:16.160 Yeah, and it's I mean two anecdotal stories. I mean 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:20.400 my college coach coached at Oklahoma State, gosh, and maybe 0:31:20.440 --> 0:31:23.280 the early nineties when they they went in C double 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:25.480 a's and finished second a couple other times, like Alan 0:31:25.520 --> 0:31:28.320 Braddon who now coaches there. It's some really good players 0:31:28.320 --> 0:31:31.160 like Phil's era. Okay, when phills at Arizona State and 0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:34.120 coaches like, look, we're the best team in the country. 0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:36.080 Are one of the couple best teams in the country. 0:31:36.120 --> 0:31:38.600 And I mean the night before a tournament, we got 0:31:38.640 --> 0:31:40.600 four out of five guys on the driving rings trying 0:31:40.600 --> 0:31:43.080 to find us, like find figure out how to get 0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:45.040 it on the golf course, Okay, and we were the 0:31:45.040 --> 0:31:47.320 best team in the country. Like we lose more balls 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:51.160 in practice rounds. Coaches like, I mean, we don't. We 0:31:51.160 --> 0:31:53.440 don't hit a ball out of play anymore. And like 0:31:53.680 --> 0:31:55.840 Tech's still good and they're still a good team, but 0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:59.160 like you know, all of a sudden, in the practice rounds, 0:31:59.200 --> 0:32:01.600 it's just five. I have two hundred and ninety yard 0:32:01.680 --> 0:32:04.800 bombs down the middle every single time, Like you know, 0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:09.080 it's it's totally different, totally different game. And then you 0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:11.240 know on Christmas Eve or whatever Golf channel had that 0:32:11.720 --> 0:32:14.160 Christmas Day that all those shells. Wonderful world of golf. 0:32:14.480 --> 0:32:17.120 So I watched the Pine Valley and Congressional just because 0:32:17.120 --> 0:32:20.000 I know those two courses, especially Congressional because I've played 0:32:20.000 --> 0:32:24.840 there so many times. And it was Di Vicenzo. Obviously, 0:32:24.920 --> 0:32:27.480 the guy's a legend, like great player. He literally topped 0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:29.480 it off the first te He hit it one hundred 0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:32.720 and sixty yards and didn't get to the faraway. Could 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:36.000 you imagine any tour player hitting anything. I mean, he 0:32:36.080 --> 0:32:38.959 may spray one on, but like hitting anything, but just 0:32:38.960 --> 0:32:42.000 like a high bomb off the first tee. And the 0:32:42.000 --> 0:32:44.640 Pine Valley match was the same thing. They would mishit 0:32:44.720 --> 0:32:46.800 these t shots and they would be like, ooh, didn't 0:32:46.880 --> 0:32:49.160 quite get to the fairway two thirty five off the tee. 0:32:49.400 --> 0:32:53.560 That's impossible now, yeah, right, So to your point, huge 0:32:53.600 --> 0:32:57.320 technological change because those guys swing it unbelievable. You know, 0:32:57.440 --> 0:33:00.840 they had beautiful golf swings and they were spectacles players. 0:33:01.240 --> 0:33:03.960 So you can't tell me that like Jeene Littler or 0:33:04.000 --> 0:33:06.640 whoever it was, like, you know, was was a less 0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:10.400 pure striker than you know, Cameron Champ. But it's impossible 0:33:10.400 --> 0:33:12.040 to top it with today's equipment. 0:33:12.800 --> 0:33:17.960 Yeah, that's it's I went to uh a track winter 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:21.640 facility in Chicago the other day and I used their 0:33:21.680 --> 0:33:25.760 track man because I got sent uh this uh these 0:33:25.840 --> 0:33:29.920 old clubs that from a buddy who's one of his 0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:33.920 members at his club is a former tour player, uh 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:35.960 from back in the day, and he just dropped off 0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:38.400 like six sets of clubs, so he sent me one 0:33:38.440 --> 0:33:40.400 of them, so I, you know, I went, I went 0:33:40.440 --> 0:33:44.360 to this TrackMan and hit the Hickory driver. I have 0:33:45.240 --> 0:33:49.800 this Hogan driver that's like a Persimmon driver, and then 0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:53.600 my driver and I use ballattas and pro v ones 0:33:54.200 --> 0:33:58.160 and it was insane because with the you know, it's 0:33:58.200 --> 0:34:01.600 the middle of winter here and I'm not swinging great, 0:34:01.680 --> 0:34:05.360 but I literally like it would have been a complete 0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:09.120 shank with any other driver with my modern driver, and 0:34:09.160 --> 0:34:12.239 it's still went to ninety and then I get the 0:34:12.600 --> 0:34:15.000 you know, I get the Persimmons and the Hickory drivers, 0:34:15.080 --> 0:34:18.120 and if I hit that shot, it would go nowhere. 0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:20.360 I mean it was it would be like a low, 0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:24.600 cold pull left and and you know, and what I 0:34:24.640 --> 0:34:28.040 saw was there was a wider dispersion of both the 0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:32.240 distance and direction with those with the old clubs because 0:34:32.520 --> 0:34:34.280 the file ball was possible. 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:37.920 Yeah, so very possible. 0:34:38.440 --> 0:34:41.080 And it's fascinating because like, I'm sure you're the same 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:44.600 way when I grew up, like you could still hit fallballs, 0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:47.720 like in high school golf, I remember like being able 0:34:47.760 --> 0:34:49.160 to like top it off the tee. 0:34:51.640 --> 0:34:54.799 Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's different. And then you know, 0:34:54.840 --> 0:34:57.880 that might be part of the answer to the you 0:34:57.960 --> 0:35:00.680 know why in like the eighties or nineties, was the 0:35:00.719 --> 0:35:04.759 top you know, the whatever, the correlation between you know, 0:35:04.880 --> 0:35:07.160 driving distance and money list finish you. 0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:08.680 Know, wasn't as high as this today. 0:35:08.719 --> 0:35:10.400 And maybe maybe that's the reason. It was just so 0:35:10.600 --> 0:35:14.239 much harder, maybe to hit it long and straight. I 0:35:14.280 --> 0:35:18.040 mean obviously Norman and Nicholas and Tiger you know, before 0:35:18.360 --> 0:35:21.440 the pro v hit it longer and straighter than everyone. 0:35:21.560 --> 0:35:24.560 But it was maybe just that much of a unique 0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:27.319 you know, because there's as much as it's easy to say, 0:35:27.480 --> 0:35:30.200 like Dustin, I mean every year there's you know, there's 0:35:30.200 --> 0:35:33.440 twenty I mean rom hits it three thirty and straight, 0:35:33.920 --> 0:35:36.960 Justin Thomas hits a three thirty and straight. McElroy, does 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:40.160 you know there's in every year there's more. So it 0:35:40.280 --> 0:35:44.520 becomes a different skill set that's rewarded, just like your 0:35:44.600 --> 0:35:47.000 you know, research on the on the tennis. 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:50.080 Yeah, yeah, that's that's the thing is Like I feel 0:35:50.080 --> 0:35:52.960 like I had like a realization a couple of years 0:35:53.000 --> 0:35:55.920 ago that if I swing as hard as I can 0:35:56.239 --> 0:36:00.840 at drivers, it's the best way I can swing a 0:36:00.920 --> 0:36:06.560 golf club. Yeah, because like it gets you athletically into it, 0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:09.320 it gets a better motion. But but the back flip 0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:11.800 side of it is like you're not focused on hitting 0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:13.759 the sweet spot because the head's so big you can't 0:36:13.760 --> 0:36:14.320 really miss. 0:36:14.880 --> 0:36:17.080 I don't know, I don't know what the I don't 0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:19.480 know what the poll numbers would show. But if you 0:36:19.480 --> 0:36:21.520 were to pull the PGA Tour, if you had to 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:24.600 hit a faaraway eighteenth hole, you have to hit the 0:36:24.600 --> 0:36:27.040 faaraway to win or save your life, would you rather 0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:30.080 hit a driver or a three wood driver, my guess 0:36:30.080 --> 0:36:32.279 would My guess would be people say driver eighty percent 0:36:32.360 --> 0:36:33.080 say driver. 0:36:33.520 --> 0:36:36.439 No doubt to me, Like, I almost like, I'm thinking 0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:38.200 about taking the three wood out of the bag because 0:36:38.239 --> 0:36:39.160 I use it so little. 0:36:40.080 --> 0:36:41.280 Yeah, it's true. 0:36:41.760 --> 0:36:43.520 It's like and I used to have like that Sonar 0:36:43.640 --> 0:36:45.520 Tech three wood that I would just like back in 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:47.759 the day, I would just hit that at any time 0:36:47.760 --> 0:36:50.239 I felt uncomfortable. It was like my favorite club in 0:36:50.280 --> 0:36:54.239 my bag. It's it's just fascinating. So you touched on 0:36:54.239 --> 0:36:56.600 this a little bit like with the with consistency on 0:36:56.680 --> 0:37:00.920 the web, and so from you, your standpoint as a 0:37:01.000 --> 0:37:06.359 tour pro is consistency underrated and winning overrated. 0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:13.120 I think that winning is underrated, and I think that 0:37:13.880 --> 0:37:17.680 consistency is it's not overrated or underrated. 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:18.720 Properly awesome. 0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:21.960 But yeah, it's properly rated. But I think I think, 0:37:22.000 --> 0:37:24.280 and this is coming from someone who has zero wins 0:37:24.280 --> 0:37:26.960 on the tour, I think winning. 0:37:26.719 --> 0:37:28.480 Is what it's all about, you know. 0:37:29.640 --> 0:37:32.920 And I think the guys that are most impressive for 0:37:33.040 --> 0:37:35.239 the guys that win when they get up there, and 0:37:35.320 --> 0:37:38.680 if you look at guys that have had success, they've 0:37:38.719 --> 0:37:43.480 won it every level Like this Bryson Deshambo. I mean, 0:37:43.520 --> 0:37:45.880 I like tweeted whatever it was two years ago. I 0:37:45.880 --> 0:37:48.560 mean when I was, you know, on tour obviously when 0:37:48.600 --> 0:37:50.880 he was coming out and playing on his sponsor spots, 0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:52.239 and it's like, what do you think? Because you know 0:37:52.239 --> 0:37:54.320 what you think about this guy or you know players 0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:56.520 and the I'm like, what do I think? I think 0:37:56.560 --> 0:37:58.840 that he won the US Amateur and the NC Double 0:37:58.920 --> 0:38:01.080 A and the only guys that have done that, it 0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:03.279 made a hundred million dollars on tour. I think he's 0:38:03.280 --> 0:38:05.239 going to dominate, Like not dominate, but I think he's 0:38:05.239 --> 0:38:07.000 going to make a hundred million dollars on tour. That's 0:38:07.000 --> 0:38:09.880 what I think. And I don't care if he's you know, 0:38:10.200 --> 0:38:13.080 hitting it with a shovel like he's a winner. The 0:38:13.120 --> 0:38:17.680 guy wins huge tournaments, and I think winning is underrated, 0:38:17.800 --> 0:38:19.839 you know, and it's it's been I mean, you know, 0:38:19.920 --> 0:38:23.400 my generation, Web Simpson won a lot of junior tournaments, 0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:26.399 he won a couple of colls. You know, he won 0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:29.840 an amateur golf and lo and behold. You know, I 0:38:29.840 --> 0:38:31.920 don't know how many majors he's contended in, but he 0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:34.520 won the one at Olympic Club and you know, the 0:38:34.560 --> 0:38:36.480 guy's got five six wins or whatever he has. 0:38:36.640 --> 0:38:37.879 That's just a trend that. 0:38:37.800 --> 0:38:42.279 Continues, and it's a it's I don't I think it's underrated. 0:38:42.440 --> 0:38:43.400 Winning is underrated. 0:38:43.440 --> 0:38:45.680 It's a tough, tough thing to do, and the people 0:38:45.680 --> 0:38:48.239 that do it a lot are it's those are some 0:38:48.280 --> 0:38:48.880 bad dudes. 0:38:49.280 --> 0:38:52.040 Yeah, web Web had a great year. I mean won 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:55.399 the players and contended and every other major, I think, 0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:58.600 a top twenty and every other major. I mean, yeah, 0:38:58.719 --> 0:39:03.359 he's he's a heck of a player. It's so from 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:05.839 like a week to week standpoint on the PGA Tour 0:39:05.960 --> 0:39:08.760 versus majors, Like, what would you say is the biggest difference. 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:11.960 I think it's a big difference. 0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:18.200 I've played a dozen majors, and I just think it's 0:39:18.320 --> 0:39:21.560 it's mean, it's rewards a really strong game the majors. 0:39:22.080 --> 0:39:24.239 You know, I think that it's a lot more difficult, 0:39:25.000 --> 0:39:30.359 the courses are a lot longer. It's you know, and 0:39:30.400 --> 0:39:35.920 it's it's an interesting, interesting, uh difference. You know. I think, 0:39:36.200 --> 0:39:38.759 like I looked up I listened to you and Olivi's 0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:41.319 deal and y'all talked about something and I clicked on 0:39:41.320 --> 0:39:45.040 like Ryan Moore's page and like he actually hasn't had 0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:46.920 he has like three top tens and majors, and I 0:39:46.960 --> 0:39:48.839 would have guessed he had like sixteen because he's such 0:39:48.840 --> 0:39:50.560 a good player and he's always played well in such 0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:53.560 big tournaments. And then you have like guy like Bill Haas. 0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:55.920 I remember he finished top ten somewhere and they were like, 0:39:55.960 --> 0:39:57.839 that's his first top ten in a major. And he's 0:39:57.840 --> 0:40:01.719 a spectacular player. But you know, I mean, well, one 0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:05.080 of the four majors in Augusta, where being you know, 0:40:05.120 --> 0:40:08.200 having a certain type of games obviously fits that course 0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:11.360 really well. But the majors are tough, and I mean 0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:13.319 the field are you know, there's so much deeper. But 0:40:13.920 --> 0:40:17.680 I think that's why. You see, like we played at 0:40:17.680 --> 0:40:21.360 Birkdale two years ago and I just thought to myself, like, 0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:24.040 anybody can win this tournament the way the course is. 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:26.759 Anyone can win this tournament and lo and behold it's 0:40:26.719 --> 0:40:30.560 Spee who's there at all? The majors and Cooch and 0:40:30.640 --> 0:40:32.719 I just think it's really hard for a guy like 0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:36.400 Foots or someone like that. And Couch has contended Augusta 0:40:36.400 --> 0:40:40.640 a couple of times, but uh, and then the US opened, 0:40:40.920 --> 0:40:43.600 which has become like our best invitation of the some 0:40:43.640 --> 0:40:46.839 sort of weird British Open the last six years, eight 0:40:46.920 --> 0:40:51.160 years is the same thing. It's big, long, wide, so 0:40:52.040 --> 0:40:56.759 anyone can hit. It's it's very it rewards a certain certain. 0:40:56.440 --> 0:40:56.960 Type of game. 0:40:57.000 --> 0:40:59.960 But you know, the guys that play well consistently in 0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:01.839 the majors, you know, I know Ricky hasn't won one, 0:41:01.880 --> 0:41:04.440 but he's got what like ten top fives and majors. 0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:07.839 Like that's some serious playing, you know, I mean kept 0:41:07.880 --> 0:41:10.799 him before he started winning him and know he has 0:41:10.880 --> 0:41:13.960 like he's like sixteen of the last seventeen majors he's 0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:16.160 finished in the top twenty or something like. I mean, 0:41:16.600 --> 0:41:18.719 if you do that every time, you're gonna win a couple. 0:41:18.760 --> 0:41:20.400 And he's won three, which is amazing. 0:41:20.960 --> 0:41:22.319 That's that's some serious golf. 0:41:22.440 --> 0:41:25.919 It's like you're gonna fall into a few like Ernie 0:41:26.040 --> 0:41:30.279 L's is almost like a perfect example his last major win, 0:41:30.520 --> 0:41:33.640 like he fell into that, but like it was almost 0:41:33.680 --> 0:41:36.200 like his reward for finishing in the top five like 0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:38.480 thirty times in majors. 0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:41.640 I couldn't agree more. I watched I watched him lose 0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:43.759 a couple that were heartbreakers, and when he won that 0:41:43.840 --> 0:41:46.279 one it just felt like, oh, that's about right. Like 0:41:46.360 --> 0:41:49.440 he you know, like he he should have you know 0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:51.799 he's doing he's doing another major because he's there all 0:41:51.840 --> 0:41:53.359 the time. You're one hundred percent right. 0:41:54.040 --> 0:41:58.400 It's so, what do you think in terms of the 0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:04.600 with and at the professional level? Is it? Is it? 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:06.680 Do you do you think it's over eight or under a? 0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:08.879 Do you think it has to be narrow? Do you think? 0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:12.520 Do you are you in the the Brandle's Chambolise school 0:42:12.520 --> 0:42:14.520 of thinking or are you more in the in the 0:42:14.520 --> 0:42:17.239 fried Egg school thinking not to you know, you can 0:42:17.360 --> 0:42:20.120 you can say the Brandle thinking. It's not going to 0:42:20.200 --> 0:42:20.640 offend me. 0:42:22.040 --> 0:42:24.279 I I'm not in the Brandle school thinking when it 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:26.120 comes to the with or the distance. I mean I 0:42:26.160 --> 0:42:28.560 heard him saying that, you know that the interview that 0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:30.840 he thinks they just need to build better golf courses, 0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:35.160 and I mean where who's going to build them? I 0:42:35.160 --> 0:42:38.480 don't I don't understand where we're supposed to go play 0:42:38.520 --> 0:42:43.440 now with the way how far the ball goes? And 0:42:43.480 --> 0:42:45.480 then you know they asked him in that interview like, well, 0:42:45.520 --> 0:42:48.320 what did you think about golf ne SNL for the 0:42:48.320 --> 0:42:50.560 the Ryder Cup? Is that a good example of how 0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:52.680 to make it tough again, and he was like, well, 0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:55.160 something like that, but not like that, not like that exactly, 0:42:55.200 --> 0:42:57.480 but something like that. And I'm like, but what, like, 0:42:57.520 --> 0:43:01.120 what's what's the solution to? And scoring is not really 0:43:01.800 --> 0:43:04.840 the thing I have an issue with. I mean, scoring 0:43:04.840 --> 0:43:07.160 to me is very arbitrary. People get really hung up 0:43:07.160 --> 0:43:10.719 on scoring, and I think Aaron Hills and Shinnakok were 0:43:10.719 --> 0:43:13.600 a perfect example of that. The greens at Aaron Hills 0:43:13.640 --> 0:43:16.479 were literally like a pool table and they had four 0:43:16.520 --> 0:43:19.400 par fives. If you change one of those par fives 0:43:19.640 --> 0:43:21.600 and then you make the greens bumpy like they were 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:24.640 at Shinnakok, you get the scoring pretty similar. And the 0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:27.600 greens aren't bad at Shinnakock. They're just whatever eighty year 0:43:27.640 --> 0:43:32.239 old greens, you know, whereas Aaron Hills greens were so 0:43:32.520 --> 0:43:34.640 good that if you had a good putting week and 0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:37.239 you're a great potter like Brooks Koepka, you can hoop 0:43:37.360 --> 0:43:41.000 so many putts. And Shinnikock is a great golf course 0:43:41.000 --> 0:43:43.960 and it's a hard golf course, but so is Aaron Hills. 0:43:44.000 --> 0:43:47.080 And they weren't sixteen shots difference as far as playability. 0:43:47.400 --> 0:43:51.000 But when the greens are bumpy or not perfect. You know, 0:43:51.080 --> 0:43:53.560 you make a couple less ten footers around, and a 0:43:53.560 --> 0:43:55.680 couple less ten footers is eight shots at the end 0:43:55.719 --> 0:43:58.719 of the week. So it's not a scoring issue. It's 0:43:58.760 --> 0:44:02.040 just like when you watch Aaron Hills and Brooks Kopka 0:44:02.120 --> 0:44:04.520 didn't hit more than seven iron into a par four 0:44:05.400 --> 0:44:07.200 and they had to go into the middle of Wisconsin 0:44:07.239 --> 0:44:09.080 to build an eight thousand yard golf course and they 0:44:09.120 --> 0:44:11.480 still couldn't put anything longer than a seven iron in 0:44:11.520 --> 0:44:14.719 these guys hands. You're like, what are you supposed to do? 0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:16.799 I mean, what's the answer? Brandle? Like, where do you 0:44:16.840 --> 0:44:21.239 go from there? You know? And if you don't want 0:44:21.320 --> 0:44:23.560 golf nacional, if you don't want eight inch rough and 0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:26.320 narrow fairways, like, how do you want to like challenge? 0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:28.400 How are we going to challenge the players? And this 0:44:28.520 --> 0:44:31.000 is strictly professional golf, Yeah, you know, we're not talking 0:44:31.040 --> 0:44:35.880 about recreational golf. And I don't you know that's I 0:44:35.880 --> 0:44:40.080 don't see how it's possible to challenge guys that hit 0:44:40.120 --> 0:44:43.480 it that long and straight anymore. 0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:46.719 So that's it's a fascinating thing. So I thought, with 0:44:46.760 --> 0:44:50.640 like Aaron Hills, I think with the with unless you 0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:54.200 want a tour that is, you know, what I think 0:44:54.239 --> 0:44:57.160 about a lot is like the associated penalty of missing 0:44:57.239 --> 0:45:01.960 the fairway for a guy who hits it two eighty 0:45:02.520 --> 0:45:06.360 versus Brooks or DJ. Like when Brooks are DJ business 0:45:06.400 --> 0:45:09.440 a fairway, they're gonna have wedge in their hand, and 0:45:09.480 --> 0:45:11.320 being in the rough with a wedge is not that 0:45:11.400 --> 0:45:14.640 big of a deal versus being in the rough with 0:45:14.719 --> 0:45:17.480 like a six or a five iron or seven iron 0:45:17.560 --> 0:45:20.040 even like all of a sudden, then that's a really 0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:21.839 hard shot if you're in the rough with a with 0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:26.080 a you know, less lofted club. So the associated penalty 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:29.200 of missing a fairway is so so much different for 0:45:29.560 --> 0:45:32.399 you know, the long hitter than the say the even 0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:34.680 the three hundred yard hitter, which has now become the 0:45:34.719 --> 0:45:38.239 average hitter on tour. Is and so like to me, 0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:41.400 like what Aaron The special thing about Aaron Hills or 0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:46.560 Shinnecock is it gave somebody the opportunity that's a shorter 0:45:46.680 --> 0:45:50.360 hitter to legitimately hit fourteen or fourteen fairways. 0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:55.080 Yeah, I agree with that. 0:45:55.480 --> 0:45:59.400 So in my mind it's like and I totally agree 0:45:59.440 --> 0:46:02.399 with the scoring thing. The score that's where everybody kind 0:46:02.400 --> 0:46:04.880 of is twisted, is like, you know, the game has changed, 0:46:04.880 --> 0:46:07.040 so why are we holding on to the same scores, 0:46:07.280 --> 0:46:10.640 Like why not just make the part at a at 0:46:10.640 --> 0:46:14.200 the PGA Tour, you know, say, say the players make 0:46:14.280 --> 0:46:17.360 the par par sixty eight. You know, sixteen isn't a 0:46:17.360 --> 0:46:20.880 par five anymore, right, Yeah. 0:46:20.680 --> 0:46:22.520 I don't get hung up on the scoring. The thing 0:46:22.600 --> 0:46:24.600 that I think and this is just me as like 0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:26.920 a golf fan, and you know, I say, I get 0:46:26.960 --> 0:46:29.880 an inside the rules. Look to me, the issue is 0:46:29.920 --> 0:46:33.920 that golf is now a game on the professional level 0:46:34.080 --> 0:46:38.080 where you play with it's basically wedges and putter and 0:46:38.560 --> 0:46:41.120 like the rest of the bag doesn't really matter except 0:46:41.160 --> 0:46:43.319 for a couple of part threes around. And that's the 0:46:43.360 --> 0:46:48.160 part that that's the off, you know, just as a fan, 0:46:48.239 --> 0:46:51.760 like not as a player trying to make a living, like, dude, 0:46:52.800 --> 0:46:54.480 go out there and make a living. Like there's no 0:46:54.960 --> 0:46:58.399 I don't have any like grudges or or any hard 0:46:58.440 --> 0:47:00.200 feelings about the way the game is played now. 0:47:00.200 --> 0:47:02.120 From that standpoint, it's like killer be killed. 0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:05.319 I understand what I signed up for, but I just 0:47:05.920 --> 0:47:08.200 I just wish that the game would get back to 0:47:09.080 --> 0:47:11.800 being more of a, you got to use all fourteen 0:47:11.840 --> 0:47:15.239 clubs because right now I tell the college kids, like 0:47:15.280 --> 0:47:16.919 the tech kids that I see, it's like, you either 0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:19.720 need to be prodigious with the driver or the putter 0:47:20.000 --> 0:47:23.200 to make a living. That is, those are the two clubs. 0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:25.480 If you're not prodigious with one of those two, you're 0:47:25.520 --> 0:47:27.920 going to have a really hard time. Guys that are 0:47:27.920 --> 0:47:29.120 prodigious with both. 0:47:28.920 --> 0:47:30.680 And those guys are the top ten guys in the world, 0:47:30.960 --> 0:47:31.200 you know. 0:47:32.320 --> 0:47:35.040 Yeah, it's like my buddy, for my buddy, Sean Martin, 0:47:35.080 --> 0:47:37.480 who writes for the Tour, he was like, you know, 0:47:37.920 --> 0:47:40.480 eight of the top ten strokes gained driving made it 0:47:40.520 --> 0:47:44.160 to the Tour Championship, and it was like thirteen or 0:47:44.200 --> 0:47:46.919 thirteen of the thirty, we're in the top twenty. It's 0:47:46.920 --> 0:47:49.200 like if you drive it far, so like if you're 0:47:49.200 --> 0:47:51.640 in the top tennis and of strokes gained off the tea, 0:47:51.640 --> 0:47:53.040 it's impossible to lose your card. 0:47:54.440 --> 0:47:59.000 Yeah, and that's it's not just far. They hit it straight, yeah, 0:47:59.080 --> 0:48:02.279 you know, and like I agree with like, no one 0:48:02.440 --> 0:48:05.200 is knocking these guys, Like I'm not knocking them for like, oh, 0:48:05.200 --> 0:48:07.120 they just hit it far. It's like, no, they hit 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:11.920 a start and stupid straight Yeah, so you know that's unbelievable. 0:48:12.040 --> 0:48:15.720 Watch that'll do it for part one of the Roberto 0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:19.279 Castro podcast. I hope you enjoy it. UH. Part two 0:48:19.320 --> 0:48:23.800 will go into more detail into Roberto's background, how he 0:48:23.880 --> 0:48:27.960 got into the game, much more about life on tour, tour, golf, 0:48:28.400 --> 0:48:31.920 golf course architecture, just a lot of topics. It was 0:48:32.040 --> 0:48:36.040 a fun podcast and ford uh Part two later this week, 0:48:36.200 --> 0:48:43.680 and thanks for listening.