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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to another edition of the

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Speaker 1: Frida Egg Podcast. We are back with new episode here

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Speaker 1: in the New Year with PGA tour player Roberto castro So.

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Speaker 1: This will be a two part podcast, with the second

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Speaker 1: half of this podcast posting later this week. Happy New Year.

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Speaker 1: I hope everybody had a great holiday and enjoy Roberto

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Speaker 1: castro I miss a.

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Speaker 2: Green for example, I'm already upset when I find my

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Speaker 2: ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I

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Speaker 2: find my ball in a brid egg, Frida Egg, the

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Speaker 2: dreaded Frida Egg, Friday, Frida Egg, fridagg bride Egg Lie,

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Speaker 2: I'm about ready to run off the Yeah, well that's

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Speaker 2: one of my questions. We can talk about it when whatever,

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Speaker 2: during the when it comes up. But like, is it

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Speaker 2: possible to separate like the course from the club, you know,

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Speaker 2: like that is like such a huge like thing in

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Speaker 2: my opinion, you know that I don't think, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm not to get like all like Malcolm Gladwell, but like,

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Speaker 2: you know, is it is it because of the membership

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Speaker 2: and the club and the prestige or the history or

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Speaker 2: the course or the you know, like the nostalgia I

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Speaker 2: don't know, there's just so many pieces that I think,

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Speaker 2: like some of these clubs get you know, like I

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Speaker 2: mean the list when you guys had this conversation the

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Speaker 2: list you went down, it's like, oh, he was like

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Speaker 2: Cyprus and Pine Valt and it's like yeah, but that's

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Speaker 2: like walking into a church and when net g Illinoy

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Speaker 2: and being like, I don't know, like Saint Patrick's Cathedral

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Speaker 2: just like gets it right in New York. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's like yeah, okay, sure it does, but like not

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Speaker 2: every you know, like there's just I don't know, it's

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Speaker 2: just the you know, like when we talk about like

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Speaker 2: golf or where it should go, it's like, well, look

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Speaker 2: at these places like when you butt in the locker

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Speaker 2: rooms are metal and it's like, yeah, but you could

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Speaker 2: get that an Alpharetta Georgia. People will be like this

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Speaker 2: is the dumbest thing I've ever seen, you know, Like

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Speaker 2: there's it's just a hard like I think people get

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Speaker 2: really nostalgic for things that are very unique, you know,

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Speaker 2: that are now replicable.

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Speaker 1: You know it's funny. I uh so like col Club

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Speaker 1: and San Francisco. Yeah, so San Francisco Golf is obviously

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Speaker 1: like the the super exclusive one, the one where like

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Speaker 1: nothing's changed, you know, you're like going back in time.

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Speaker 1: You know. I've grown to appreciate the no cell phone rule.

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Speaker 1: Like I love just putting it away, Like I like

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Speaker 1: you leaving it in the car, and like, yeah, outside

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Speaker 1: of like the fear of some crazy thing happening, you

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Speaker 1: like for the most part, like you're you're gonna be fine,

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Speaker 1: and then you enjoy your day so much more. But

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Speaker 1: like so like COL Club is like if so, I

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Speaker 1: think San Francisco Golf Club is a much better golf

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Speaker 1: of course, right, But Cal Club they did this big

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Speaker 1: restoration or renovation really and they completely overhauled like the

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Speaker 1: vibe and the the the membership of the club with

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Speaker 1: this restorate. Like their their thought was like if if

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Speaker 1: people are complaining about what we want to do and

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Speaker 1: making it really golf centric, then like that's fine, let

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Speaker 1: them leave because those aren't the members we want. And

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Speaker 1: they've completely overhauled the membership with this whole you know thing.

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Speaker 1: And it's like that's a perfect example. Like so San

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Speaker 1: Francisco Golf Club, at my point in my life, I'd

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Speaker 1: rather be a member of Cal Club than San Francisco

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Speaker 1: golf club because like cal Club would be I would

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Speaker 1: fit in more there. You know, they have a vibe,

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Speaker 1: they have they have more games, you know, you it'd

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Speaker 1: be way easier to find a game to play. You know,

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Speaker 1: the people that I'd be playing with, I'd have more

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Speaker 1: in common with. So I think that is like there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things that go into a club. Like

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Speaker 1: and it's like when I was a member at a

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Speaker 1: club in Chicago, it was you know, it was in

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Speaker 1: the wrong part of town and so it had fallen

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Speaker 1: on tough times they needed members. But like I was

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Speaker 1: twenty eight when I joined, and I joined, and then

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Speaker 1: like I got a bunch of my buddies that I

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Speaker 1: played midday I'm golf with to join. So you know,

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Speaker 1: the golf course wasn't great. There's way too many trees,

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Speaker 1: you know, it drove me insane. But I had like

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Speaker 1: forty guys that were threes or less to play with,

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Speaker 1: you know, and that that makes a huge difference. That

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Speaker 1: makes a place, It makes a place special. I always

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Speaker 1: tell people, like, you should join a club that you

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Speaker 1: know you're going to have good games.

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Speaker 2: At, and there's so many I don't know. I think

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Speaker 2: it's very like people and like the current you know,

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Speaker 2: like social media, golf Twitter verse, like they want to

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Speaker 2: ascribe like off to like one thing, you know, and

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Speaker 2: it's like like people who really love golf, like it's

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Speaker 2: because of good architecture or it's because of and it's

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Speaker 2: like no, people like they're like ten different, Like I

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Speaker 2: hear like yours the one you're talking about. You joined

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Speaker 2: your boes. It was a fine course. We had forty

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Speaker 2: guys in the scratch game every day and you those

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Speaker 2: were like scratched afore. And then the club I joined,

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Speaker 2: We planned it in college. Could college really high end

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Speaker 2: like suburban club. The course was in one of Doak's

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Speaker 2: books as a zero on the Doak scale. Okay, a zero,

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Speaker 2: but I'm telling you those members, we had such a

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Speaker 2: good group of guys, and those guys have kind of

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Speaker 2: stay from that club of the year since. But like

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Speaker 2: they're golf nuts, they're going to the UK every year.

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Speaker 2: They joined other Like these guys are junkies, and we

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Speaker 2: all were at a place with a dope zero but

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Speaker 2: it didn't matter. Like the course was in pure shape

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Speaker 2: and it was like fancy and the service was you know,

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Speaker 2: like I'm just saying there's something different ways doing the came.

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Speaker 2: If you think it's just good golf architecture, why how

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Speaker 2: does that explain the like bowels or millions of people

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Speaker 2: that go to a driving range and golf balls after

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Speaker 2: work every day, you know, like even play it, so

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Speaker 2: like want to hit balls off a mat. So you know,

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Speaker 2: there's just if there's no one solution for like either

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Speaker 2: growing the game or like explaining why people like it

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Speaker 2: or why.

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Speaker 1: I think golf course architecture is so important in the

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Speaker 1: sense of like most people don't know why they like

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Speaker 1: certain courses and everything. And if if people played better golf,

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Speaker 1: if there was more better golf, people would play more

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Speaker 1: golf and it would be less expensive. Because really good

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Speaker 1: golf architecture is actually way more simple than the stuff

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Speaker 1: that offends someone like dok or myself. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: look at Augusta when it opened, it had twenty two bunkers.

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Speaker 1: You know, Brandon Is diverted a lot from it, but

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Speaker 1: like twenty two bunkers is is the maintenance budget on

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Speaker 1: that is a fraction, and it'd be It's the same

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Speaker 1: thing as like letting courses be living organisms, letting them

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of brown out, not having to have

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Speaker 1: everything be lush and perfect like. That's I think the

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Speaker 1: aspects of of golf that kind of gets swept under

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Speaker 1: the rug, and in a lot of ways, I think

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Speaker 1: where people people have unrealistic expectations because of what they

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Speaker 1: see on TV. It was like when the Tour when

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Speaker 1: uh they were at Trinity Forst this year, and the

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Speaker 1: and the Golf Channel like jacked up the saturation levels

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Speaker 1: on the TV to make Triny Forrest look more green.

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Speaker 3: Oh really, that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Did you play that? You're in the one you're gonna

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Speaker 1: play You're gonna play that next year?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

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Speaker 1: That's quoil Caddy.

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Speaker 2: Uh went work there and he said it was pretty sweet.

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Speaker 2: He said it was cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So what, uh, what's it? You know, You've you've

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Speaker 1: had an interesting uh career where you're one of the

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Speaker 1: rare guys that's gone Tour Championship to Web and then

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Speaker 1: back and then back. But what do you think the

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Speaker 1: biggest difference between the Web and the PGA tourists.

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Speaker 3: Man, it's totally different.

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Speaker 2: I mean I played Web in two thousand and eleven

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Speaker 2: and then six years on tour, and then I played

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Speaker 2: WEB last year and now much changed on the Web. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: in my six or seven years, the tourist changed a lot.

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Speaker 3: But the Web really hasn't changed much.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the golf courses are totally different. You know,

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Speaker 2: they're much shorter and they're much less penal. So literally

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Speaker 2: anyone in the field can win a Web tournament. And

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Speaker 2: you see that like this year, like ten guys won

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Speaker 2: that did not finish in the top twenty five. You know,

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Speaker 2: you can go like five miss cuts in a row

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Speaker 2: and then win a Web tournament because if you can

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Speaker 2: get it out there and have a really good putting

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Speaker 2: week and hit you know, you can win. You don't

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Speaker 2: really see that on the tour, Like guys that went

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Speaker 2: on tour are trending in that direction generally, or they're

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Speaker 2: very very good players that have been through like a

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Speaker 2: you know, a bad stretch or whatever. But there's not

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Speaker 2: like the Web rookie that you know, has missed six

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Speaker 2: of his first eight cuts and then like wins Byron Nelson,

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Speaker 2: Like that doesn't generally happen. But on the Web tour

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Speaker 2: every year there's guys that just you know, they're one

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Speaker 2: sixtieth on the money list, they've made one cut and

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Speaker 2: then they peel off twenty five hunder, you know, somewhere

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Speaker 2: in the Midwest in July and they win. So it's

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Speaker 2: it's totally different. They'll play anywhere on the web, literally anywhere.

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Speaker 1: That's what I was looking at, Like Cameron Champ and

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Speaker 1: I was, you know, he got off to such a

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Speaker 1: good start in the fall, and I was thinking to myself, like,

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Speaker 1: how come he wasn't more dominant on the web. And

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Speaker 1: I started to think about it. I always thought that

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Speaker 1: that that web courses might favor bombers more, but that

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Speaker 1: made me kind of realize that it actually, like the

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Speaker 1: shorter courses give every everybody a shot.

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Speaker 3: Totally yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if everyone is hitting nine iron or down

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Speaker 2: on a shorter, easier course, you know, being seventy yards

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Speaker 2: is not that big of an advantage of being.

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Speaker 3: One hundred yards.

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Speaker 2: It's a much bigger difference when for seventy versus one twenty.

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Speaker 2: It's a big difference when I'm two hundred and he's

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Speaker 2: one fifty. That's a wedge and a five iron, you know.

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Speaker 2: And look, it doesn't necessarily mean that like the wrong

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Speaker 2: guys are having success out there. The golf course that

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Speaker 2: he won in Utah was the most nothing course that

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Speaker 2: I saw this year. Like it was though it was

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Speaker 2: just an you know, not to be mean. It's a

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Speaker 2: fine little country club, you know, neighborhood course, but it

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Speaker 2: was the most nothing course. And he won. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the Web finals had a buddy from Tech who was

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Speaker 2: there in Arizona, and the scores were just insanely low.

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Speaker 2: The web dot com Q School Finals, Yeah, and the

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Speaker 2: scores were insanely low. And I don't follow college golf

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Speaker 2: that closely, but I know what the right, you know,

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Speaker 2: the big names are. And it seemed like of the

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Speaker 2: ten big names, nine of them finished in the top forty.

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Speaker 2: And then that Thornberry kid, you know, shot like ten

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Speaker 2: under the first day and kind of got stuck and.

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Speaker 3: Didn't finish in the top forty.

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Speaker 2: But all the other kids that were all Americans at

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Speaker 2: the big schools, and you know, the Norman Jong's and

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Speaker 2: the you know, the kid from Texas, Scottie Scheff, all

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Speaker 2: those kids, like, yeah, they all finished in the top forty.

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Speaker 2: And the course was obviously a nothing course where you know,

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Speaker 2: just kind of a everyone said, if you kept it

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Speaker 2: out of the desert, it was then the easiest course

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Speaker 2: in the world, So you know, it's not necessarily like

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Speaker 2: the best players are still the best players even if

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Speaker 2: you go play a you know, kind of a rinky

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Speaker 2: dent course, you know, and and they have their certain challenges.

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Speaker 3: To the Web Tour.

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Speaker 2: You know, I don't blame them. Some of the courses

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Speaker 2: are pretty disappointing. But hey, if there's a sponsor and

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Speaker 2: there's a town that wants to host the tour, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're just going to play where they can play. It's

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Speaker 2: that's I mean, on the list of five things that

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Speaker 2: need to happen to put together a web course, you know,

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Speaker 2: the courses pretty far down that list.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think the thing with the Web

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Speaker 1: Tour that that frustrates me is that no other sporting

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Speaker 1: league subsidizes the senior tour their senior circuit over their

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Speaker 1: developmental tour, like you know, minor league baseball. The minor

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Speaker 1: league teams are clearly supplemented by the by the big

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Speaker 1: league team. And to me, that's where it kind of

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Speaker 1: falls short, is that this is the tour that's responsible

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Speaker 1: for developing your next wave of stars, and you subsidize

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Speaker 1: the aging stars that have already made their money, who

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Speaker 1: are already in the pension program and you know, getting

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Speaker 1: theirs like they've already gotten theirs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but that tour is not responsible for developing the

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Speaker 2: next generation of the guys that end up in the

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Speaker 2: top ten or twenty in the world, that become the

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Speaker 2: next generation of tour stars. They either play one season

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Speaker 2: there or they play zero seasons there. It's just not

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Speaker 2: it's not a you know, they're not responsible for developing.

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Speaker 2: It's more of a way of identifying. It's more of

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Speaker 2: like a season long qualifier in my opinion, And if

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Speaker 2: you look at it that way, you know, I would

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Speaker 2: do some things differently if you look at it as

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Speaker 2: basically a season long qualifier. But you know, the tour

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Speaker 2: they're smart. The persones haven't gone up. You know, I

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Speaker 2: was gone for six years, and the purses are the same,

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Speaker 2: but traveling is more expensive. Caddies are you know. I

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Speaker 2: mean how ten twelve years ago they were playing for

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Speaker 2: almost the same thing they're playing now. The Web Tour

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Speaker 2: is financially not very viable unless you finish in the

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Speaker 2: top twenty five. You can break even or make a

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Speaker 2: little money. But the tour knows that as the carrot

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Speaker 2: gets bigger and the purses go up on the PGA Tour,

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Speaker 2: they could play for zero money. They could announce today

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Speaker 2: that there's zero purses for the web dot Com schedule

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Speaker 2: next year, and they would fill the fields right now.

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Speaker 2: Because if you get your card, you're playing for seven

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Speaker 2: million every week the following year. So the you know,

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Speaker 2: I means the incentives to play for a million dollars

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Speaker 2: a week on the tour, on the web tour, or

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Speaker 2: subsidize it. From the tours business perspective, it's not really there, right.

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Speaker 1: So you said to you, if you were looking at

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Speaker 1: it as a season long qualifier, you'd change some things.

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Speaker 1: What would be a couple of things that you change.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'd make the schedule more travel. You know, I

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Speaker 2: played when I turned probably played mini tours, and I

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Speaker 2: drove to the tournaments and we played for one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty grand or two hundred thousand dollars purses. But

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Speaker 2: you drove and you carried your own back or you

275
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Speaker 2: rode in a cart, and you could do it and

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Speaker 2: you could make some money. You know. Kisner and I

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Speaker 2: always talk about how, you know, we were lucky when

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Speaker 2: we were playing minis, like we made money, especially for

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Speaker 2: being twenty one, twenty two years old, and that's those

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Speaker 2: main tours have kind of gone away for whatever reason.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure if it's like PGA Tour Canada and

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Speaker 2: China or Latin America. I don't know, that's a different,

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Speaker 2: you know topic, but I would you know, if you're

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Speaker 2: looking at it as more of a qualifier, you maybe

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Speaker 2: you have sixteen tournaments and there's four tournaments in Florida,

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Speaker 2: and then when it's July, there's four tournaments around Chicago,

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Speaker 2: and then you know, when it cools back down or whatever,

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Speaker 2: you have to go out to California or to the

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Speaker 2: desert in Arizona. But you make it to where maybe

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Speaker 2: you're not playing for as much, but you're not spending

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Speaker 2: as much. I mean the amount of them. I mean

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Speaker 2: to you know, this buddy of mine who played at

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Speaker 2: Georgia Tech. He's a really good young player, Vince Waley.

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Speaker 2: He went through the Q School. He finished in the

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Speaker 2: top forty and lost money at Q School even with

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Speaker 2: the you know, they give you a bit of a

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Speaker 2: check for finishing the top forty. You know it's going

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Speaker 2: to cost him fifteen twenty grand to go play the

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Speaker 2: first five tournaments. You go to the Bahamas for two weeks, Colombia, Mexico, Panama,

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Speaker 2: you know, ten fifteen thousand bucks. And if he makes

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Speaker 2: that money back, he's going to be like near the

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Speaker 2: top twenty five of the money list, you know. And again, hey,

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Speaker 2: you go have a good year out there. Another tech

304
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Speaker 2: kid that finished like third or fourth on the money list,

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Speaker 2: you know, he made three hundred something thousand dollars. That's it.

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Speaker 2: You know, even if you spend one hundred or one

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty, that's a hell of a good year.

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Speaker 2: You know, coming out of college, there's definitely opportunity to

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Speaker 2: make money out there. But if the purses continue to

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Speaker 2: not in like simple inflation ten years from now, they're

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Speaker 2: still playing for six hundred grand a week out there,

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Speaker 2: and but you're flying all over the country, it's completely untenable,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I agree with that. I got a buddy

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Speaker 1: who's now five straight years. He's so he's made through

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Speaker 1: every stage of Q school for five straight years, but

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Speaker 1: he's never you know, his he gets the web tour,

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Speaker 1: he hasn't played great on any year. And it's and

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Speaker 1: I look at it him just like god like from

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Speaker 1: a financial standpoint, like he you know, he's going to

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Speaker 1: run out, you know, like he's going to run out

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Speaker 1: of cash, and he's you know, clearly one of the best,

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Speaker 1: you know, six hundred players in the world probably, right,

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Speaker 1: And it's like, God, what a tough gig. If you're

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Speaker 1: if you're one of the six hundred best basketball players,

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Speaker 1: you're playing for millions of dollars in Europe at least.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah. And you know, like some people are like, well,

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Speaker 2: if you go get your MBA, you know, you pay

329
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Speaker 2: one hundred grand or whatever, and you don't make any money,

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Speaker 2: you're not earning in your job, and it's an investment

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Speaker 2: in your future earnings and the web Tour you can

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Speaker 2: look at it that way, and hey, that's one way

333
00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,200
Speaker 2: to look at it. But when you get your MBA,

334
00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,040
Speaker 2: you're almost guaranteed to have future earnings as of in

335
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,560
Speaker 2: whatever your career is, you know, the Web tour or

336
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,560
Speaker 2: any developmental golf, you know, any kid turning pro, there's

337
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,600
Speaker 2: no guarantee you could do that for ten years and

338
00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,720
Speaker 2: you never make the tour and then you're starting kind

339
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 2: of from scratch. So I don't think that's you know,

340
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,199
Speaker 2: kind of a perfect analogy. But you know, if you

341
00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,639
Speaker 2: make it. It's like, well, you know, I've busted it

342
00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:54,280
Speaker 2: on the web tour for a year or two and

343
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:57,320
Speaker 2: kind of broke even and whatever. But now I'm playing

344
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Speaker 2: for big money. That works out, you know for those guys.

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Speaker 1: Well you could be like Omar, You're usty and just

346
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,600
Speaker 1: become like the sensation of the PGA circuit.

347
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:08,760
Speaker 2: Just crush the section event.

348
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,320
Speaker 1: So you've You've talked a little bit about your You

349
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,040
Speaker 1: went to Georgia Tech, and I think it's one of

350
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 1: the things I find unique is you graduated with honors

351
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Speaker 1: an industrial engineering degree from the you know, it's the

352
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,080
Speaker 1: top industrial engineering school in the country. Uh, what would

353
00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:31,840
Speaker 1: you what would you be doing if you weren't golfing.

354
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Speaker 3: That's a good question.

355
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Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, I think just like people romanticize,

356
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Speaker 2: you know, professional golf. I think, you know, I romanticize

357
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Speaker 2: like my buddies of corporate jobs or you know, have

358
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,840
Speaker 2: done really well in that world. So you know, you'd

359
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 2: like to think that, like you get the consulting job

360
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 2: out of college and you go back in business school

361
00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:55,560
Speaker 2: or or something like that. But it's just hard to say.

362
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,400
Speaker 2: You know, I also have friends that went that root

363
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Speaker 2: for a while and then ejected because they, uh, you know,

364
00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,240
Speaker 2: that's not as glamorous as it sounds. It's hard to say,

365
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,120
Speaker 2: but you know, when I turned pro, it was too

366
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 2: I had finished school in two thousand and seven. I mean,

367
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,560
Speaker 2: things were booming, like my you know, classmates were like

368
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:17,399
Speaker 2: taking multiple offers from big companies and you know, and

369
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,120
Speaker 2: I was like hauling off to you know, Connapolis, North

370
00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,919
Speaker 2: Carolina to play for you know, fifty bucks in a

371
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,480
Speaker 2: mini tour event. So it was you know, I was

372
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,080
Speaker 2: kind of like, well, well, you know, we'll see how

373
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Speaker 2: this goes. And then you know, two thousand and eight happened.

374
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:34,440
Speaker 2: And then a couple you know, a Georgia tech guy

375
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Speaker 2: older than me that had played for a couple of

376
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,240
Speaker 2: years and then was in the workforce, a real estate guy.

377
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,359
Speaker 2: I mean it was two thousand and eight, two thousand

378
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:44,879
Speaker 2: and nine, and he was like, man, I'm talking to

379
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Speaker 2: like you know these guys, I'm like, I might as

380
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 2: well just like play mini tours now, like the opportunity

381
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Speaker 2: there's just no there's no business, there's no deals, there's

382
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 2: no you know everything. When every the bottom fell out

383
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:57,840
Speaker 2: of everything, he was like, maybe I should go back

384
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 2: and play golf, Like there's nothing, you know, so it's

385
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,360
Speaker 2: kind of just timing of when things happened.

386
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Speaker 3: But it's hard to say exactly what i'd be doing.

387
00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,000
Speaker 2: Who knows.

388
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's funny. I Uh, after I graduated college,

389
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 1: I played some good AM stuff and I thought about

390
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,840
Speaker 1: playing and I had like a moment where I you know,

391
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,439
Speaker 1: I didn't play in college, and but I was, you know,

392
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: I could have played some other places. And I was

393
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 1: sitting in a hotel and I can't remember what part

394
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 1: of Florida, and you know, it was around New Year's

395
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: and I'd just seen all my friends and I was

396
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,400
Speaker 1: just like, what the fuck am I doing down here?

397
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:36,199
Speaker 2: You know.

398
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 1: And it's like you got to have like a you

399
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 1: got to have a deep burning desire is what I

400
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,240
Speaker 1: learned really quickly. And I was like, I don't really

401
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 1: have this, and I don't know if I'm good enough

402
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 1: to do this. It's uh, but it's it, you know,

403
00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,320
Speaker 1: the dream is uh. In that time, I graduated in

404
00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 1: nine and so like that that time is you know,

405
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:58,280
Speaker 1: it was like the job market was so bad it

406
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 1: didn't you know, going and checking it out for six

407
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:02,320
Speaker 1: months wasn't a big deal.

408
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, yeah, it's it's different though that I mean,

409
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:08,919
Speaker 2: I talk about it a lot with my brother and

410
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,199
Speaker 2: the coach at Tech. You know, when I finished. You know,

411
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 2: it's about the same time as you. They were guys

412
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 2: on my team obviously that played golf at Georgia Tech's.

413
00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 2: They were really good players and they did not turn pro.

414
00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 2: You know, it was kind of like, man, like I

415
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,679
Speaker 2: was kind of the five to six guy, or you know,

416
00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:26,840
Speaker 2: maybe I was like the four guy and played most

417
00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:28,679
Speaker 2: of my time here, but like, no, I'm not going

418
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 2: to play pro golf. And man, this generation now like

419
00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 2: across the board, I mean, like my brother's twenty six,

420
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 2: like all those kids are turning pro, you know, and

421
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,200
Speaker 2: I it's I don't know if it's a millennial thing

422
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: or or what, but I just want to be like

423
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,640
Speaker 2: guys like you know, like it is like if you're

424
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:48,680
Speaker 2: the you know, if you're the five or six guy

425
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,080
Speaker 2: on a college team, like, you know, you got a

426
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,680
Speaker 2: long you got a lot of long way to go

427
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 2: if you're going to make a living doing this. But

428
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,240
Speaker 2: you know, guys do it for either a short time

429
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 2: or they you know, they.

430
00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 3: Figure it out.

431
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 2: But it's definitely interesting to watch the kids, uh that

432
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 2: are coming up now, you know, And I, like I said,

433
00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: I was very fortunate the many tour situation was so

434
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 2: different for those couple of years after I turned pro,

435
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 2: so different.

436
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 3: I was lucky in that regard.

437
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 1: It's so to me the you know, the tour has

438
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 1: changed in the last yeah, kind of since like I

439
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: would say Jordan Speed twenty twelve ish. You know, it's

440
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: like when we first have seen this, it's like, what

441
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,879
Speaker 1: do you why do you what would you attribute to

442
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: this like mass wave of youth talent that's coming into

443
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,600
Speaker 1: the game. And essentially unlike any time before you've talked

444
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: about you and Kissner, I look at like Kissner is

445
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,920
Speaker 1: a perfect example of like he's like an all round guy.

446
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,959
Speaker 1: He's you know, I think I don't think last year.

447
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: I think the year before he finished top forty in

448
00:22:51,119 --> 00:22:53,919
Speaker 1: every strokes gain category and it and you look at it,

449
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: he's a three or four time All American. But it

450
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: still took him five six years to get to the

451
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,439
Speaker 1: get to the PGA Tour. And it's like, you know,

452
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: that guy now is there you know within two years.

453
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question. And I think for the

454
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 2: guy that played golf in college for four years, like

455
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 2: like Kisner myself or Cooch or Snedeker. You know, I

456
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 2: think the prime of your career was kind of the

457
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 2: traditional like call it thirty to thirty three, twenty eight

458
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,439
Speaker 2: to thirty two. You know, maybe that that was the prime,

459
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,720
Speaker 2: But I mean I don't think that's the case anymore.

460
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,520
Speaker 2: I think it's you know, it's honestly, it's twenty to

461
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: twenty five and twenty to twenty eight, and this generation

462
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 2: that's now like reaching that. I mean, Jordan, I mean,

463
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: you know, I mean those couple of years that Speed had,

464
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,720
Speaker 2: I mean that had twenty one twenty two, I mean

465
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 2: some of the best years in the history of golf,

466
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,719
Speaker 2: and Justin Thomas did it super young. And even McElroy, right,

467
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,119
Speaker 2: I mean he's you know, his best years were in

468
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 2: his early twenties. But I think the biggest difference is,

469
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,199
Speaker 2: like you nail it. I mean, if you play like

470
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 2: kids or I play, you have to be really good

471
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 2: at all parts of the game. And for a week

472
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: to have a good week, you have to hit it good.

473
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 2: You have to drive it well, you have to chip

474
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: and put it well. You have to have a good

475
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 2: week on the greens. But if you hit it three

476
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty yards in the air and straight. Some

477
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: weeks you really just need to have a good putting

478
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 2: week or a really good driving week where you hit

479
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 2: it super straight to have like an amazing week or

480
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: to win. And there's less of like the learning how

481
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,120
Speaker 2: to play. And I'm not saying these guys can't chip

482
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 2: and putt, and they don't. They know how to chip

483
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 2: and putt, that's you know, and they know how to play.

484
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 2: But like you know, Ogilvie kind of talked about it

485
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 2: when you spoke with him, like you had to learn

486
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 2: how to play, and I think I fell in that category.

487
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 2: Maybe kids might have too, you know, but there's not

488
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: that much of a learning curve when you can hit

489
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 2: it three hundred and thirty yards dead straight and put

490
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 2: well and you're polished and you you know, you played

491
00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 2: the ajaga, you played at a big time college, even

492
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: if it was just for a year or two, you've

493
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 2: just had way more experience and you're not you just

494
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 2: the expectation is totally different. Like when I turned pro,

495
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 2: there was like one or two guys a year that

496
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,119
Speaker 2: would get maybe their PGA Tour card, and there was

497
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,880
Speaker 2: three or four guys a year that like were recently graduated,

498
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: that would get on the Web Tour, that would make

499
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 2: it through Q School to the finals and get on

500
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 2: the Web Tour. But the expectation for most people, not

501
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,399
Speaker 2: Anthony Kim and not Dustin Johnson. Those guys are my age,

502
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 2: my year of college, and Dustin obviously just crushed the

503
00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: tour school and then he's the best player in the

504
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 2: last ten or twelve years, him or Rory. But the

505
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 2: expectation was like you had to get your legs under you,

506
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 2: you know, get better and get out there. And you know,

507
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 2: I mean, golf's all mental. If the expectation now is

508
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 2: to do what Justin Thomas did, then there's a decent

509
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 2: chance that Cameron Champ is going to do it. You know,

510
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 2: it's just what you believe is possible and what you

511
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 2: believe you can do and what your expectation is.

512
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 3: It shifts everything.

513
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 2: You know, it may not be more than a mentality.

514
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: I mean, Jordan was the you know, kind of the

515
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 2: first one, right, So that's it.

516
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,719
Speaker 1: I'd never thought about like the expectation and the mental

517
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,240
Speaker 1: side of it, but that's it's so spot on because

518
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: now if you're a really highly regarded college player. You

519
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: turn pro, you've seen all of your peers, guys that

520
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: you've beaten, you know, guys you've competed against for you know,

521
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: ten years of your life. Go do it. It's like

522
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: it's not as tall as a task, it's not as intimidating.

523
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it isn't it's you know, it's expectation. It's

524
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 2: mental where you see yourself and it had and it

525
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 2: you know, that's fifty percent. And then it has to

526
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 2: match up with a skill set. But the most important

527
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: skill set on the tour is driving it eight hundred

528
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 2: miles and putting really well. Yeah, and those these kids

529
00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:00,479
Speaker 2: have that.

530
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 3: They have that skill set.

531
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: So you know, it's not just I believe in mine.

532
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 2: There's a lot. You can believe in yourself all day.

533
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: I can believe in myself. I'm not going to play

534
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: in the NBA even if I think, you know, but

535
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: these kids have the skill set to match. They have

536
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 2: the two or three skills that are most important for

537
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 2: playing in today's On today's.

538
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: Tour, distance has obviously always been a huge advantage. But

539
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: I look back to like Hank Keeney and Hank Keeney

540
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 1: hit it really far you know, he was you know,

541
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: essentially camera Champ before Camera Champ, but that era he

542
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 1: did not succeed, you know, in terms of you know,

543
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,399
Speaker 1: how he could you know, drive the ball, Like what's

544
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,359
Speaker 1: changed that? Now? You know these guys hit it that

545
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,400
Speaker 1: hit it far that don't you know that do almost

546
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: every other aspect of the game at a below average

547
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: PGA Tour level. All of a sudden they make our

548
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: top you know, thirty players.

549
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: I don't know, but I would guess two things. One day,

550
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,959
Speaker 2: hit it insanely straight. Dustin hits it so straight it

551
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 2: makes your eyes water. I mean, it's incredible how straight

552
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: he hits it. And Brooks I've never played with Brooks,

553
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: but it seems like the same. I've played with Dustin

554
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: the most of those guys that are like top five

555
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 2: in the world. He hits it so straight. And I've

556
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 2: played with McElroy a few times and he HiT's so

557
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 2: straight and just turning it on TV. Do you know

558
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 2: how narrow the fairways are when you carry it three

559
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty yards and then if it rolls out

560
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 2: well like I watched Rory flipped on like Riviera last year,

561
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: so he gets to like ten eleven twelve, turns a

562
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,240
Speaker 2: little to the right and he drives it down there

563
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty five yards in the fairway. He

564
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 2: has to land that ball on the right side of

565
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: the faraway so it can run to the left side

566
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 2: of the fairway at three hundred and fifty yards. It's

567
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: an and he's doing it hole after hole after hole.

568
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,239
Speaker 2: It's unbelievable how straight they hit it. And then they

569
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: chip and pot too. You know. Cameron Champ led the

570
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 2: field and putting I think in Mississippi and then at

571
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 2: rs M and Sea Island. I'm not sure if he

572
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: did that for four days, but I think sitting around

573
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: breakfast on Sunday, they were showing the stat that he

574
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: was leading the field and putting for three days at RSM.

575
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,239
Speaker 2: You know, the chip and putt like crazy, you know,

576
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: and and they hit it long and straight. So I'm

577
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: not sure what you know in the previous generation that

578
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,280
Speaker 2: those guys were either more crooked or more one dimensional,

579
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 2: meaning that's like the only thing they could do was

580
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 2: hit it far.

581
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 3: But that's not the case anymore.

582
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:32,239
Speaker 1: It's you know, this is this is good. It's going

583
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: to make give me a reason that I have to

584
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: I have to finish writing this thing. I found a

585
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: really interesting academic study the other day. I got on

586
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: this rabbit hole about tennis, you know, and tennis is

587
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: you know, changed over the years, and I've found this

588
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: study that these two students looked at the change from

589
00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: wooden to composite rackets and tennis and how it how

590
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 1: it changed the you know, skills that succeeded in tennis.

591
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: And it was a study to examine like workforce, right

592
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: instead of because you can't study like what technological change

593
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: can do to workforce because people's careers are fifty years,

594
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: So they looked at tennis because it was six to

595
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: fifteen years. And it was fascinating that, like when there's

596
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: a major technological change in the in tennis, all of

597
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: a sudden, the skills that are rewarded are changed. So,

598
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, tennis used to be all about precision, all

599
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: of a sudden, that composite racket allowed for top spin,

600
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: so players with power and top spin all of sudden

601
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 1: became extremely dominant in the sport, I believe it. So

602
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: it's a fascinating thing. I think there's so many parallels

603
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: and to my from what I can think of, like

604
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 1: the only real sports that have you know, had this

605
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: major technological change or golf and and in tennis, yeah.

606
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't know if it was the pro

607
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 2: v that flies straighter or if it's the drivers.

608
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: I think the combination of the head size, TrackMan and

609
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: the ball, because like those are three major innovations.

610
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's I mean two anecdotal stories. I mean

611
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: my college coach coached at Oklahoma State, gosh, and maybe

612
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: the early nineties when they they went in C double

613
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 2: a's and finished second a couple other times, like Alan

614
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 2: Braddon who now coaches there. It's some really good players

615
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 2: like Phil's era. Okay, when phills at Arizona State and

616
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: coaches like, look, we're the best team in the country.

617
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 2: Are one of the couple best teams in the country.

618
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 2: And I mean the night before a tournament, we got

619
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 2: four out of five guys on the driving rings trying

620
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 2: to find us, like find figure out how to get

621
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 2: it on the golf course, Okay, and we were the

622
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: best team in the country. Like we lose more balls

623
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: in practice rounds. Coaches like, I mean, we don't. We

624
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 2: don't hit a ball out of play anymore. And like

625
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 2: Tech's still good and they're still a good team, but

626
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: like you know, all of a sudden, in the practice rounds,

627
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: it's just five. I have two hundred and ninety yard

628
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: bombs down the middle every single time, Like you know,

629
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: it's it's totally different, totally different game. And then you

630
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: know on Christmas Eve or whatever Golf channel had that

631
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: Christmas Day that all those shells. Wonderful world of golf.

632
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 2: So I watched the Pine Valley and Congressional just because

633
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: I know those two courses, especially Congressional because I've played

634
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: there so many times. And it was Di Vicenzo. Obviously,

635
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,480
Speaker 2: the guy's a legend, like great player. He literally topped

636
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,480
Speaker 2: it off the first te He hit it one hundred

637
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: and sixty yards and didn't get to the faraway. Could

638
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 2: you imagine any tour player hitting anything. I mean, he

639
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 2: may spray one on, but like hitting anything, but just

640
00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: like a high bomb off the first tee. And the

641
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 2: Pine Valley match was the same thing. They would mishit

642
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: these t shots and they would be like, ooh, didn't

643
00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: quite get to the fairway two thirty five off the tee.

644
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: That's impossible now, yeah, right, So to your point, huge

645
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 2: technological change because those guys swing it unbelievable. You know,

646
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: they had beautiful golf swings and they were spectacles players.

647
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 2: So you can't tell me that like Jeene Littler or

648
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 2: whoever it was, like, you know, was was a less

649
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: pure striker than you know, Cameron Champ. But it's impossible

650
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: to top it with today's equipment.

651
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it's I went to uh a track winter

652
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: facility in Chicago the other day and I used their

653
00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: track man because I got sent uh this uh these

654
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: old clubs that from a buddy who's one of his

655
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: members at his club is a former tour player, uh

656
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,960
Speaker 1: from back in the day, and he just dropped off

657
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: like six sets of clubs, so he sent me one

658
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: of them, so I, you know, I went, I went

659
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: to this TrackMan and hit the Hickory driver. I have

660
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: this Hogan driver that's like a Persimmon driver, and then

661
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 1: my driver and I use ballattas and pro v ones

662
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: and it was insane because with the you know, it's

663
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: the middle of winter here and I'm not swinging great,

664
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: but I literally like it would have been a complete

665
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: shank with any other driver with my modern driver, and

666
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: it's still went to ninety and then I get the

667
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, I get the Persimmons and the Hickory drivers,

668
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,120
Speaker 1: and if I hit that shot, it would go nowhere.

669
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: I mean it was it would be like a low,

670
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: cold pull left and and you know, and what I

671
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: saw was there was a wider dispersion of both the

672
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 1: distance and direction with those with the old clubs because

673
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: the file ball was possible.

674
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so very possible.

675
00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: And it's fascinating because like, I'm sure you're the same

676
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: way when I grew up, like you could still hit fallballs,

677
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: like in high school golf, I remember like being able

678
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 1: to like top it off the tee.

679
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's yeah, it's it's different. And then you know,

680
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 2: that might be part of the answer to the you

681
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: know why in like the eighties or nineties, was the

682
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: top you know, the whatever, the correlation between you know,

683
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 2: driving distance and money list finish you.

684
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 3: Know, wasn't as high as this today.

685
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: And maybe maybe that's the reason. It was just so

686
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 2: much harder, maybe to hit it long and straight. I

687
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: mean obviously Norman and Nicholas and Tiger you know, before

688
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 2: the pro v hit it longer and straighter than everyone.

689
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 2: But it was maybe just that much of a unique

690
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,319
Speaker 2: you know, because there's as much as it's easy to say,

691
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,200
Speaker 2: like Dustin, I mean every year there's you know, there's

692
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: twenty I mean rom hits it three thirty and straight,

693
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: Justin Thomas hits a three thirty and straight. McElroy, does

694
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 2: you know there's in every year there's more. So it

695
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 2: becomes a different skill set that's rewarded, just like your

696
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 2: you know, research on the on the tennis.

697
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's that's the thing is Like I feel

698
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: like I had like a realization a couple of years

699
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 1: ago that if I swing as hard as I can

700
00:35:56,239 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: at drivers, it's the best way I can swing a

701
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: golf club. Yeah, because like it gets you athletically into it,

702
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,320
Speaker 1: it gets a better motion. But but the back flip

703
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 1: side of it is like you're not focused on hitting

704
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 1: the sweet spot because the head's so big you can't

705
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: really miss.

706
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know what the I don't

707
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: know what the poll numbers would show. But if you

708
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 2: were to pull the PGA Tour, if you had to

709
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 2: hit a faaraway eighteenth hole, you have to hit the

710
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: faaraway to win or save your life, would you rather

711
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 2: hit a driver or a three wood driver, my guess

712
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 2: would My guess would be people say driver eighty percent

713
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 2: say driver.

714
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 1: No doubt to me, Like, I almost like, I'm thinking

715
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 1: about taking the three wood out of the bag because

716
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: I use it so little.

717
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true.

718
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: It's like and I used to have like that Sonar

719
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: Tech three wood that I would just like back in

720
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: the day, I would just hit that at any time

721
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: I felt uncomfortable. It was like my favorite club in

722
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: my bag. It's it's just fascinating. So you touched on

723
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 1: this a little bit like with the with consistency on

724
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: the web, and so from you, your standpoint as a

725
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 1: tour pro is consistency underrated and winning overrated.

726
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 2: I think that winning is underrated, and I think that

727
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: consistency is it's not overrated or underrated.

728
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:18,720
Speaker 1: Properly awesome.

729
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's properly rated. But I think I think,

730
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 2: and this is coming from someone who has zero wins

731
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,960
Speaker 2: on the tour, I think winning.

732
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 3: Is what it's all about, you know.

733
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 2: And I think the guys that are most impressive for

734
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 2: the guys that win when they get up there, and

735
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,680
Speaker 2: if you look at guys that have had success, they've

736
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 2: won it every level Like this Bryson Deshambo. I mean,

737
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 2: I like tweeted whatever it was two years ago. I

738
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 2: mean when I was, you know, on tour obviously when

739
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 2: he was coming out and playing on his sponsor spots,

740
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: and it's like, what do you think? Because you know

741
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 2: what you think about this guy or you know players

742
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 2: and the I'm like, what do I think? I think

743
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 2: that he won the US Amateur and the NC Double

744
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 2: A and the only guys that have done that, it

745
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 2: made a hundred million dollars on tour. I think he's

746
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 2: going to dominate, Like not dominate, but I think he's

747
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 2: going to make a hundred million dollars on tour. That's

748
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,880
Speaker 2: what I think. And I don't care if he's you know,

749
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 2: hitting it with a shovel like he's a winner. The

750
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 2: guy wins huge tournaments, and I think winning is underrated,

751
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 2: you know, and it's it's been I mean, you know,

752
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 2: my generation, Web Simpson won a lot of junior tournaments,

753
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:26,399
Speaker 2: he won a couple of colls. You know, he won

754
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 2: an amateur golf and lo and behold. You know, I

755
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 2: don't know how many majors he's contended in, but he

756
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 2: won the one at Olympic Club and you know, the

757
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: guy's got five six wins or whatever he has.

758
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 3: That's just a trend that.

759
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 2: Continues, and it's a it's I don't I think it's underrated.

760
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 3: Winning is underrated.

761
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 2: It's a tough, tough thing to do, and the people

762
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: that do it a lot are it's those are some

763
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 2: bad dudes.

764
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, web Web had a great year. I mean won

765
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 1: the players and contended and every other major, I think,

766
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 1: a top twenty and every other major. I mean, yeah,

767
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:03,359
Speaker 1: he's he's a heck of a player. It's so from

768
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: like a week to week standpoint on the PGA Tour

769
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: versus majors, Like, what would you say is the biggest difference.

770
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 3: I think it's a big difference.

771
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 2: I've played a dozen majors, and I just think it's

772
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: it's mean, it's rewards a really strong game the majors.

773
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 2: You know, I think that it's a lot more difficult,

774
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 2: the courses are a lot longer. It's you know, and

775
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: it's it's an interesting, interesting, uh difference. You know. I think,

776
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 2: like I looked up I listened to you and Olivi's

777
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,319
Speaker 2: deal and y'all talked about something and I clicked on

778
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 2: like Ryan Moore's page and like he actually hasn't had

779
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: he has like three top tens and majors, and I

780
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:48,839
Speaker 2: would have guessed he had like sixteen because he's such

781
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,560
Speaker 2: a good player and he's always played well in such

782
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,560
Speaker 2: big tournaments. And then you have like guy like Bill Haas.

783
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 2: I remember he finished top ten somewhere and they were like,

784
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 2: that's his first top ten in a major. And he's

785
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 2: a spectacular player. But you know, I mean, well, one

786
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 2: of the four majors in Augusta, where being you know,

787
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: having a certain type of games obviously fits that course

788
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 2: really well. But the majors are tough, and I mean

789
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 2: the field are you know, there's so much deeper. But

790
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 2: I think that's why. You see, like we played at

791
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,360
Speaker 2: Birkdale two years ago and I just thought to myself, like,

792
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,040
Speaker 2: anybody can win this tournament the way the course is.

793
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:26,759
Speaker 2: Anyone can win this tournament and lo and behold it's

794
00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 2: Spee who's there at all? The majors and Cooch and

795
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:32,719
Speaker 2: I just think it's really hard for a guy like

796
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 2: Foots or someone like that. And Couch has contended Augusta

797
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: a couple of times, but uh, and then the US opened,

798
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 2: which has become like our best invitation of the some

799
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 2: sort of weird British Open the last six years, eight

800
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:51,160
Speaker 2: years is the same thing. It's big, long, wide, so

801
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 2: anyone can hit. It's it's very it rewards a certain certain.

802
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:56,960
Speaker 3: Type of game.

803
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 2: But you know, the guys that play well consistently in

804
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:01,839
Speaker 2: the majors, you know, I know Ricky hasn't won one,

805
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 2: but he's got what like ten top fives and majors.

806
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,839
Speaker 2: Like that's some serious playing, you know, I mean kept

807
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 2: him before he started winning him and know he has

808
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 2: like he's like sixteen of the last seventeen majors he's

809
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 2: finished in the top twenty or something like. I mean,

810
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,719
Speaker 2: if you do that every time, you're gonna win a couple.

811
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 2: And he's won three, which is amazing.

812
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 3: That's that's some serious golf.

813
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 1: It's like you're gonna fall into a few like Ernie

814
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 1: L's is almost like a perfect example his last major win,

815
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: like he fell into that, but like it was almost

816
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: like his reward for finishing in the top five like

817
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: thirty times in majors.

818
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more. I watched I watched him lose

819
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 2: a couple that were heartbreakers, and when he won that

820
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,279
Speaker 2: one it just felt like, oh, that's about right. Like

821
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: he you know, like he he should have you know

822
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 2: he's doing he's doing another major because he's there all

823
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:53,359
Speaker 2: the time. You're one hundred percent right.

824
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: It's so, what do you think in terms of the

825
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 1: with and at the professional level? Is it? Is it?

826
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: Do you do you think it's over eight or under a?

827
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 1: Do you think it has to be narrow? Do you think?

828
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 1: Do you are you in the the Brandle's Chambolise school

829
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: of thinking or are you more in the in the

830
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,239
Speaker 1: fried Egg school thinking not to you know, you can

831
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: you can say the Brandle thinking. It's not going to

832
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: offend me.

833
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 2: I I'm not in the Brandle school thinking when it

834
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 2: comes to the with or the distance. I mean I

835
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: heard him saying that, you know that the interview that

836
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 2: he thinks they just need to build better golf courses,

837
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 2: and I mean where who's going to build them? I

838
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 2: don't I don't understand where we're supposed to go play

839
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 2: now with the way how far the ball goes? And

840
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 2: then you know they asked him in that interview like, well,

841
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 2: what did you think about golf ne SNL for the

842
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: the Ryder Cup? Is that a good example of how

843
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 2: to make it tough again, and he was like, well,

844
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 2: something like that, but not like that, not like that exactly,

845
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 2: but something like that. And I'm like, but what, like,

846
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: what's what's the solution to? And scoring is not really

847
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,840
Speaker 2: the thing I have an issue with. I mean, scoring

848
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 2: to me is very arbitrary. People get really hung up

849
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 2: on scoring, and I think Aaron Hills and Shinnakok were

850
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 2: a perfect example of that. The greens at Aaron Hills

851
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,479
Speaker 2: were literally like a pool table and they had four

852
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 2: par fives. If you change one of those par fives

853
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 2: and then you make the greens bumpy like they were

854
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,640
Speaker 2: at Shinnakok, you get the scoring pretty similar. And the

855
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 2: greens aren't bad at Shinnakock. They're just whatever eighty year

856
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 2: old greens, you know, whereas Aaron Hills greens were so

857
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:34,640
Speaker 2: good that if you had a good putting week and

858
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: you're a great potter like Brooks Koepka, you can hoop

859
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: so many putts. And Shinnikock is a great golf course

860
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 2: and it's a hard golf course, but so is Aaron Hills.

861
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 2: And they weren't sixteen shots difference as far as playability.

862
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 2: But when the greens are bumpy or not perfect. You know,

863
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 2: you make a couple less ten footers around, and a

864
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 2: couple less ten footers is eight shots at the end

865
00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 2: of the week. So it's not a scoring issue. It's

866
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 2: just like when you watch Aaron Hills and Brooks Kopka

867
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: didn't hit more than seven iron into a par four

868
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:07,200
Speaker 2: and they had to go into the middle of Wisconsin

869
00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 2: to build an eight thousand yard golf course and they

870
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 2: still couldn't put anything longer than a seven iron in

871
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: these guys hands. You're like, what are you supposed to do?

872
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 2: I mean, what's the answer? Brandle? Like, where do you

873
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,239
Speaker 2: go from there? You know? And if you don't want

874
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 2: golf nacional, if you don't want eight inch rough and

875
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: narrow fairways, like, how do you want to like challenge?

876
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 2: How are we going to challenge the players? And this

877
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 2: is strictly professional golf, Yeah, you know, we're not talking

878
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 2: about recreational golf. And I don't you know that's I

879
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 2: don't see how it's possible to challenge guys that hit

880
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 2: it that long and straight anymore.

881
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: So that's it's a fascinating thing. So I thought, with

882
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: like Aaron Hills, I think with the with unless you

883
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: want a tour that is, you know, what I think

884
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 1: about a lot is like the associated penalty of missing

885
00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: the fairway for a guy who hits it two eighty

886
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: versus Brooks or DJ. Like when Brooks are DJ business

887
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 1: a fairway, they're gonna have wedge in their hand, and

888
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: being in the rough with a wedge is not that

889
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: big of a deal versus being in the rough with

890
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 1: like a six or a five iron or seven iron

891
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: even like all of a sudden, then that's a really

892
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 1: hard shot if you're in the rough with a with

893
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: a you know, less lofted club. So the associated penalty

894
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: of missing a fairway is so so much different for

895
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,399
Speaker 1: you know, the long hitter than the say the even

896
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: the three hundred yard hitter, which has now become the

897
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 1: average hitter on tour. Is and so like to me,

898
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: like what Aaron The special thing about Aaron Hills or

899
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: Shinnecock is it gave somebody the opportunity that's a shorter

900
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 1: hitter to legitimately hit fourteen or fourteen fairways.

901
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with that.

902
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: So in my mind it's like and I totally agree

903
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 1: with the scoring thing. The score that's where everybody kind

904
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,880
Speaker 1: of is twisted, is like, you know, the game has changed,

905
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: so why are we holding on to the same scores,

906
00:46:07,280 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: Like why not just make the part at a at

907
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour, you know, say, say the players make

908
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: the par par sixty eight. You know, sixteen isn't a

909
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,880
Speaker 1: par five anymore, right, Yeah.

910
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 2: I don't get hung up on the scoring. The thing

911
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,600
Speaker 2: that I think and this is just me as like

912
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:26,920
Speaker 2: a golf fan, and you know, I say, I get

913
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,880
Speaker 2: an inside the rules. Look to me, the issue is

914
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: that golf is now a game on the professional level

915
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: where you play with it's basically wedges and putter and

916
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: like the rest of the bag doesn't really matter except

917
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:43,319
Speaker 2: for a couple of part threes around. And that's the

918
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 2: part that that's the off, you know, just as a fan,

919
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 2: like not as a player trying to make a living, like, dude,

920
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 2: go out there and make a living. Like there's no

921
00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 2: I don't have any like grudges or or any hard

922
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 2: feelings about the way the game is played now.

923
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 3: From that standpoint, it's like killer be killed.

924
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:05,319
Speaker 2: I understand what I signed up for, but I just

925
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 2: I just wish that the game would get back to

926
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 2: being more of a, you got to use all fourteen

927
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 2: clubs because right now I tell the college kids, like

928
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:16,919
Speaker 2: the tech kids that I see, it's like, you either

929
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 2: need to be prodigious with the driver or the putter

930
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 2: to make a living. That is, those are the two clubs.

931
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 2: If you're not prodigious with one of those two, you're

932
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 2: going to have a really hard time. Guys that are

933
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: prodigious with both.

934
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:30,680
Speaker 3: And those guys are the top ten guys in the world,

935
00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 3: you know.

936
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like my buddy, for my buddy, Sean Martin,

937
00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:37,480
Speaker 1: who writes for the Tour, he was like, you know,

938
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,480
Speaker 1: eight of the top ten strokes gained driving made it

939
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: to the Tour Championship, and it was like thirteen or

940
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,919
Speaker 1: thirteen of the thirty, we're in the top twenty. It's

941
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 1: like if you drive it far, so like if you're

942
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: in the top tennis and of strokes gained off the tea,

943
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: it's impossible to lose your card.

944
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's it's not just far. They hit it straight, yeah,

945
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 2: you know, and like I agree with like, no one

946
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 2: is knocking these guys, Like I'm not knocking them for like, oh,

947
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 2: they just hit it far. It's like, no, they hit

948
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: a start and stupid straight Yeah, so you know that's unbelievable.

949
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,720
Speaker 1: Watch that'll do it for part one of the Roberto

950
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,279
Speaker 1: Castro podcast. I hope you enjoy it. UH. Part two

951
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:23,800
Speaker 1: will go into more detail into Roberto's background, how he

952
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,960
Speaker 1: got into the game, much more about life on tour, tour, golf,

953
00:48:28,400 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 1: golf course architecture, just a lot of topics. It was

954
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: a fun podcast and ford uh Part two later this week,

955
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: and thanks for listening.