WEBVTT - Inside Pfizer’s Vaccine Distribution 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanavak. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.600 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:33.959 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. We talked about New York 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.839 City receiving its first delivery of the one J and 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.760 J vaccine. But you are seeing Tim vaccine manufacturers facing 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.559 a global shortage of raw materials that actually came from 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:46.120 the head of the world's biggest vaccine maker and also 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.960 the World Health Organization. So you know here we are. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.559 You're in. Vaccines are rolling out, but now we're trying 0:00:51.600 --> 0:00:54.600 to find the vaccinators and the places to do it. Yes, 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:56.760 we've learned over the past few months it is very 0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:59.400 complicated to roll out of vaccine globally, not to mention 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.360 just develop bit in such a short period of time. G. G. 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:04.720 Grand Ball is Senior Scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.080 for Health Security at the Bloomberg School of Public Health. 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.800 Joins us right now on the phone from Baltimore. GG, 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:13.360 thanks for joining us. UM, what are you watching right now? 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.800 What is the most important thing when it comes to 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:20.520 the pandemic recovery? To keep an eye on the vaccination rates? 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:24.720 For sure? UM? They right now we have in the US, 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:29.240 we have three vaccines with the use authorization. Hopefully we'll 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:32.960 have more globally. There's a few others. Um. It's it's 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.680 really just about trying to get as many people vaccinated 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:39.760 so that um, we can Um that plus masks and 0:01:39.800 --> 0:01:43.319 social distancing spread the stop to spread of this virus. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:45.240 We're doing a pretty good job though, right, I mean 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:49.320 the Bloomberg Vaccine Tracker. As of yesterday, we hit just 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:54.440 over two million vaccine doses given per day according to 0:01:54.480 --> 0:01:58.280 the seven day rolling average. That's that's a pretty pretty 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:03.360 good rollout, right. Oh, it's really so encouraging to see, um. 0:02:03.400 --> 0:02:06.480 And and we definitely it couldn't happen at a better time, 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.360 because you know, we have as you know these variants 0:02:10.400 --> 0:02:13.320 that are that are emerging that we're keeping, that we're 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.720 tracking more diligently now UM, and some of them are 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:19.799 more transmissible. So we really do need to get people 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:23.760 vaccinated as well as stick with the other stuff UM 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:26.000 to be able to stop the spread of this virus. 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:27.440 So g G, this is what I want to know. 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.160 You guys, you scientists, You understand kind of viruses, what 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.560 they can do, how they can mutate, the variants that 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:35.480 can come out there, and then you've got on the 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.640 other side the vaccine that's fighting it. So what is 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:42.760 kind of the mix between how quickly we have to 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:47.400 get x percentage of our population vaccinated to stay ahead 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.280 of the variants. And I know it's never like black 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.560 and white here and very clear, but tell me kind 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:57.240 of what you are keeping an eye on here. Well, 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.480 there's a lot of people who UM, you know, all 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:02.520 of these things and models because there's so many variables 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.679 to be able to project how many people need to 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:08.600 be vaccinated to be able to keep variants of bay etcetera. 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.320 And we have the whole population of children that are 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.839 not even right now being planned to get vaccinated UM, 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.440 and so you know it's going to take a while 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:20.760 before we get anything towards what we've been you know, 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.040 talking about her immunity or anything like that. UM. But 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.160 so I I just UM would like to see the 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:30.640 demand UM and supply match up a little better for 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:34.040 a vaccine and UM and so that you know, people 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.720 pharmacies are more aggressively advertising it and trying to get 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.160 those people who are hesitant to sign up, and and 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:43.560 to show that these vaccines are have a good safety 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:48.120 record and that they have really amazing efficacy to be 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:52.360 able especially to prevent hospitalizations and deaths based on the 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:54.720 current rate on the modeling that you're seeing, When is 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:57.680 that equilibrium going to to be reached? When is demand 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:04.000 not going to exceed supply? UM? I I mean, so 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.200 the President UM said that every adult should be able 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.320 to be vaccinated in the US by May. UM. That 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:14.760 would be fantastic. I'm also waiting, UM. But then we 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:17.200 were going to have kids, UM, and there are trials 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.360 that are starting up. I'm hoping that that will be 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:22.400 before the end of the year that kids can start 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.919 being vaccinated UM. Hopefully much neoner than that. UM. And 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.120 then of course kids have to be vaccinated. Forgive me 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:30.560 for saying that. But I'm just curious. Do we have 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.080 to have kids vaccinated in order to get hurt immunity? 0:04:34.120 --> 0:04:35.520 And it is that is that got to be part 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:39.599 of the process. Um, I don't I think that that 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.840 disease could be uh stopped in other ways. I mean, 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.080 we know that we can stop spread of disease with 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:50.320 you know, good ventilation, masks, etcetera. Um, and and these 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:52.800 things will change over time. But um, but I think 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:56.160 it's just pure public health and etcetera. Would be great 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:58.680 to have kids be vaccinated so that if there are 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.719 any long term effects of the disease, that we're limiting that. 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.240 Um in children? How do you do clinical trial when 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.120 it comes to a vaccine on a on a child? 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:08.800 I mean these are people who are under eighteen and 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:10.760 have to get consent from their parents obviously, but how 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:15.960 does that work? I mean that sounds very complicated and sticky. Well, Um, 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.719 kids participate in clinical trials all the time. UM and 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.600 uh and so yes does involve consent for their parents? 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.920 And um, there are I mean not just this uh 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.479 these vaccines, but all kinds of medical treatments. UM. Where 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.240 the balance are sometimes kids uh, you know, especially older 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.480 kids really enjoy participating in it and UH and giving 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:39.880 back and participating in the science. So it's something everyone 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:42.960 can do. UM. I have my one of my kids 0:05:43.080 --> 0:05:45.240 in a in a brain study to study the team 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:49.000 the teen brain for for ten years, and so it's 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:53.919 kind of fun and interesting testing. How important is it 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:58.200 that we continue to do testing for the virus? Yeah, 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.239 it's really important, and strangely, for a lot of different reasons, 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.520 people are still trying to figure out. Testing has been 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.640 down recently, so UM we need testing to be able 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.160 to figure out, you know, not only how many people 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.359 are positive and how how many cases we have, but 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:18.160 also UM, an increasing number of those positive cases are 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.080 getting sequenced so that we can keep a track on 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.400 the variants so and see which, you know, new ones 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:28.279 are emerging and which ones are are more present than 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.080 than we'd like them to be. So UM testing is 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.279 really important. But for whatever reason, whether it's bad weather 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:38.200 or people are sick of this, or resources are devoted 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:43.040 to vaccines versus testing, it has been down recently. I 0:06:43.040 --> 0:06:45.480 I wonder if that's also because people are seeing numbers 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.000 go down, and maybe it's down also because you know, 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:50.880 we aren't really around any major holidays like we were 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.240 a few weeks ago. UM g D I I do 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:58.480 wonder when it comes to this, just what things look 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:00.520 like on the other side. I ran to a friend 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:02.360 of mine in the lobby of our building yesterday. She 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:06.000 lives really close to us, she's a neighbor. It's been 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:07.640 a year since we've gotten to hang out with with 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.240 her and her family. And I was saying, hey, we're 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.480 so close, like you know, just a few months, and 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:14.280 she looked at me, gave me this look, and she's like, no, 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:16.960 this is going to be with us forever. UM, where 0:07:16.960 --> 0:07:20.920 do you fall? Well, I think some things will be 0:07:21.040 --> 0:07:23.920 will be different forever and and it'll probably take us 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.440 some time to realize just how much thing have changed 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.640 and what's UM, what's going to stick around? UM? But 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:33.160 I mean post vaccine and when cases are low, I 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:36.120 think things are going to be a lot better for 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:40.160 for most people with UM. I think you know the 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.800 recommendations for people who are vaccinated to continue to wear masks. 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.640 It's because community transmission is still so high. So the 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:51.240 vaccine doesn't protect you from getting infected, it protects you 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.880 from the combing to that illness and UM. And so 0:07:55.280 --> 0:07:57.800 we're still trying to figure out what that means for everyone. 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:01.320 But it should really help to reduce bread and when 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:03.760 spread goes down, then we all benefit and I think 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:05.480 we'll be able to hang out a lot more. But 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.800 g two Tim's point and Tim's friends point. You know, 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.360 there's a story on the Bloomberg about you know, where 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.920 we are and hunting for the coronavirus's origin. We still 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.680 don't really exactly know where this came from or how 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:21.360 it came about. At the same time, we have talked 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.920 to a lot of folks too the virus, you know, 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:26.480 hunters that are out there that said there's another two 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.880 hundred or I don't know how many that are out 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.480 there that can be just as problematic. I mean, do 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:34.800 we need to then, ultimately going forward, live in a 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.200 world where we're constantly on kind of pins and needles 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.959 and worried about wait a minute, where did you come from? 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:44.079 Maybe you brought something into this country. Well, I hope 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:46.880 that we are doing we'll do a lot better job 0:08:47.080 --> 0:08:51.000 of figuring out and responding to pathogens as they emerge 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.320 a lot faster. I mean, the vaccine, it's amazing we 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.079 have I mean vaccine, multiple vaccines in a year. I 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.160 don't want to say that that isn't amazing, that it's 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:03.600 totally amazing, but UM, you know, the science of making 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.959 sure that we, you know, figure out what things are 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.160 likely to emerge. UM, maybe have a more broad coronavirus 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:13.840 coronavirus vaccine that can protect against multiple types of strains 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:17.040 that we think are going to emerge. All these things 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.720 require UM a lot more dedication of resources and thinking 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:24.280 about all of these health security issues as really a 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.720 national security priority. I mean, this is this is devastating 0:09:28.720 --> 0:09:31.520 to the US and UM, and we could have been 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.079 better prepared. G. We only have like fifteen seconds left 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.240 because MR and A vaccines are are being used now 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.600 and we were able to develop them so quickly. Does 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:43.360 this mean in the future we can respond very very quickly. 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.480 I hope. So, I hope. So. It's so exciting that 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:50.000 those vaccines were so quick to develop and that they 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.160 work so well. I think it's going to be a 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:55.320 new age for for that kind of technology and vaccines 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:58.439 in general. Yeah. Right. The collaboration too, and the way 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.280 they were able to move so quickly. G. Thank you 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:03.320 so much. UM. G. G. Gronville, Senior scholar at Johns 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:05.800 Hopkins Center for Health Security at Bloomberg School of Public 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.520 Health on the phone from Baltimore, and just a reminder, 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.200 of course, uh, the school supported by Michael R. Bloomberg, 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:15.200 founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. This is Bloomberg 0:10:15.240 --> 0:10:18.920 Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.880 Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. Well, the cover story in the 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.920 magazine this week, we mentioned it earlier. It's about fer 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.320 Fightser uh and really kind of their vaccine capitalism and 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:32.520 going inside Fiser's I love this headline fast fraud and 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.680 lucrative vaccine distribution, and I really feel like they're being 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.400 given accolades, but they're also getting a bunch of heat. 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.840 As we said earlier, Yeah, they are. Look, there is 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:44.280 no playbook to how a company responds to a pandemic, 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:47.400 and that's that's pretty much. That's that's what one of 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.760 the things that the piece goes into. Joining us right 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:52.120 now on the access line is Joel Webber, editor at 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:55.880 Bloomberg Business Week, and Stephanie Baker, one of the reporters 0:10:55.920 --> 0:11:00.600 on this piece, Financial Investigation, senior writer at Bloomberg News. Joel, 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.000 why was was this the the perfect story for the 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:08.120 cover this week. Well, I think the Fighter um shot 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:13.400 and vaccine is one of the biggest success stories ever Frankly, 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:17.080 I mean, like, to go from a pandemic to a 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:22.000 vaccine in a year is is a wonder and we've 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:25.000 we've written about that. But what we hadn't ever explored 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:29.760 UM and with Stephanie and her co author Cynthia drove 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:32.920 into in this story is is sort of behind the 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:38.600 scenes UM logistics and distribution challenges and and also keep 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:40.960 in mind here like the Fighter is a publicly traded 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:43.319 company that did not take money from the government and 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.079 because of that, they didn't have any strings on on 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.600 how they went about even pricing that, and that I 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.480 thought was a really interesting angle, uh and one that 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:56.640 you know speaks to also just the legacy of what 0:11:56.720 --> 0:12:01.040 we know about the pharmaceutical industry, which pricing has always 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:04.120 been an issue with and it was actually the issue 0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:08.400 that Albert Borla, who's the CEO of Fightser, was expecting 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:11.120 to deal with when he took over the job at 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:15.880 FISER a year before the pandemic happened. So so Stephanielle, 0:12:15.880 --> 0:12:17.520 I just want to turn it over to you because 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:20.200 I thought so much of the reporting in this was 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.520 was spot on and really interesting. And tell us, how 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:30.000 does FIGHTSER going to go about deciding who gets the vaccine? Well, 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.720 you know, it's a pretty opaque process still despite all 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:37.280 our digging. I think it is a mix of your 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:39.360 place in the queue, when did you get your order 0:12:39.400 --> 0:12:45.320 in your order size, production, forecast calls from world leaders. Um. 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:49.600 You know, we went into detail about how Israel managed 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:52.480 to get its hands on so many doses. And as 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:55.079 you know, Israel is a world leader in terms of 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.600 vaccination rates and that is thanks to FISER because they 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.880 are almost exclusively used in FISER for the vaccination campaign. 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.800 And UH Israel's Prime Minister of Benjamin Netanyah, who spoke 0:13:06.880 --> 0:13:11.280 to UH FISER CEO Albert Bola more than twenty times. 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:15.640 Um uh. And you know one of the reasons why 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:20.360 Israel got priority access was well a paid more paid 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.400 about thirty dollars ago, about more than the US did, 0:13:23.559 --> 0:13:27.800 and be it Um offered to use Israel as a 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.160 real world case study for how effective the vaccine is 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:35.720 and that has UM generated a stream of positive headlines 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.760 about how effective the Fiser vaccine is. Um. You know, 0:13:39.400 --> 0:13:43.120 Israel was vaccinating sixteen to eighteen year olds at a 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:47.200 time when Europe was still waiting to vaccinate eight year olds. 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.000 And that's kind of what we went into is how 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:55.000 did that happen? Um? Why was Europe so behind in 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:59.160 terms of Fiser's distribution, and and why did Israel pull ahead? 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:03.560 And really came down to these few things. Uh, the 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.000 EU European Union of course was late to place their order. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:11.080 That was one factor. But um, you know, Israel obviously 0:14:11.120 --> 0:14:14.679 offered a very unique opportunity for the company to showcase 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:17.960 how great their macnine is. Yeah, exactly. There's a line 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:20.720 in your story, um, the story that you and your 0:14:20.760 --> 0:14:24.840 colleagues did, Stephanie, where you talk about Fiser not bound 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:29.560 to serve a global health agenda. Um, but having said 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.000 that that there will come a day where there will 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.520 be an autopsy of the pandemic and that one of 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:37.040 the main questions will be how a single company came 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:41.120 to hold such power over so many Because Fiser is 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:45.880 in that position. Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I think Fiser 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.120 really stands out because it's the biggest player taking a 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:53.440 commercial approach to COVID vaccines. Obviously, there are other players 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:56.240 on the market. There's Maderna. They don't really have the 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:59.880 capacity to produce at the level that Fiser does. UM. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.680 There's Astra Zeneca, which does have a huge production capability, 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.480 but they've promised to sell their vaccine on a not 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:08.720 for profit basis for just a few dollars of dose 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.480 during the pandemic UM. So Fiser's really cut a very 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.240 commercial approach to this. And you know, when I was 0:15:16.280 --> 0:15:19.880 looking at vaccine access, who was getting shots, who was 0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:24.280 behind you know, I realized that Fiser didn't really didn't 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.080 finalize their deal with Kovacs this who back to facility 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:32.440 to distribute vaccines to low income countries until January and 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:35.320 it was only for about forty million doses. That was 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.720 two percent of visors projected output this year. And just 0:15:39.760 --> 0:15:42.040 to put that into context, Astra did a deal for 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.280 a hundred and seventy million doses. Johnson and Johnson has 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:49.320 a preliminary deal with Kovacs for five hundred million, So 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.360 that really kind of puts it into perspective that they're 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:54.800 pushing this out on a commercial basis, doing bilateral deals 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.600 with countries. More than sixty countries have signed up and 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:00.360 we still don't know a lot. You know, there's a 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:01.880 lot that we set out to try to find out 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:03.720 that we didn't we didn't get to the bottom of 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.800 and we're going to continue to record it out to 0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:10.040 try to find out exactly how this system worked. So, 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:15.240 just on the idea of vaccine capitalism, Stephanie, how does 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.640 Fightser's efforts and money money making abilities and all that 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:24.080 compared with with other uh, with the other vaccine efforts 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:25.760 that are out there and staff we only have about 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:31.200 thirty seconds here. Unfortunately, well you know it it is um, 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:33.760 it is looking at a commercial approach. It is looking 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.200 at a post pandemic approach as well, where it's updating 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:40.960 it's vaccine so it can tackle these new mutant variants. 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:43.520 And I think it's looking at a at a way 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.120 to up the price when and um, we're in a 0:16:46.160 --> 0:16:49.960 post pandemic world. Um, you know, it will still probably 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.240 be you know, charging kind of more commercial rates than 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.240 than Astro Seneca and Johnson and Johnson. So I think 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.760 that's how it stands out. All right, We're gonna leave 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.400 at that. Listen, this is a must read. There's so much. 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.080 As Joel mentioned, the reporting on this is just killer. 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:09.119 Stephanie Baker, Financial Investigation Senior writer at Bloomberg News or 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:12.160 thanks to her along with Joel Webber, editor Bloomberg business Week, 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:17.320 it's the cover story. This is Bloomberg Business Week with 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:22.119 Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:24.800 So we've got a little check on tech right now 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.199 because Twitter having a plan to fact check tweets. I 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:29.960 think this is something do you guys talked about on 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:32.600 Quickcake right? Well, you know, I gotta I gotta be honest. 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.520 We were trying our hardest to get Kurt on the 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.520 show today and I think he was busy, which is okay, Kurt, 0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:40.199 because we got Kurt now. Yeah, but thank god you 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:43.000 mentioned it. Bloomberg Tech reporter Kurt Wagner joining us on 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.479 the phone. We're gonna talk about Twitter. Were also going 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.560 to talk about Square doing a deal in the music industry, 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:52.199 but let's start with Twitter fact check tweets. Tell us 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.800 about this and their plan. Is it a good one? 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.320 Because often times when you think of fact can you 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.760 think of the route that Facebook is taking, which is 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:07.320 they're partnering with you know, outside experts, right. But Twitter's 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:10.600 idea here, it's called bird watch, and what they want 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.240 to do is turn all of their users into pseudo 0:18:14.280 --> 0:18:16.800 fact checkers. And so if you're on Twitter and you 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:19.560 come across a tweet that you know looks like it 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.959 needs more context or it needs additional information, you can 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.320 actually submit a note that could be attached to that 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.360 tweet kind of um, you know, fact check it yourself. 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:31.520 And so they want to turn their entire user base 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.200 into pseudo fact checkers. Okay, So when I think about this, 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.720 I think of Wikipedia, and you know, this is a 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.760 place where where that actually works pretty well on Wikipedia, 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.919 but it doesn't translate to other corners of the Internet. 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.080 It hasn't worked well to stop disinformation from spreading on 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:50.600 the platforms that that you write about so much. What 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:54.520 makes Twitter think it will work on Twitter? Well? I 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.160 think that they would argue that they already see people 0:18:57.200 --> 0:19:00.159 doing this, they just don't do it in this exact format, right. 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.679 I mean, how often have you've seen someone reply to 0:19:02.760 --> 0:19:05.080 a tweet and and say, hey, you know this is wrong, 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.320 or hey you you didn't mention x, or they quote 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.000 tweet it right and they had their own commentary that way. 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.920 So Twitter would say, hey, listen, people are already doing 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:16.159 a version of this. We just haven't really you know, 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.359 built it as its own kind of fact checking product, 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:21.600 and they think that if they do that, they can 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.200 kind of take all of those inputs that people are 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.040 already providing, which just make them easier for other people 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:29.040 to find. So one of the challenging things about this 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.679 about fact checking on Twitter as it as it stands 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.560 now is oftentimes the tweet with the misinformation gets retweeted 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:37.880 and so many more times, and it gets so much 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.840 more engagement than any corrected tweet or any sort of 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.440 fact check that is a reply. How does Twitter handle 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:49.080 that well in this instance, So, imagine a hundred people 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.400 submit a note for a particular tweet, right Twitter would 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.480 use an algorithm to basically pick the one or two 0:19:55.880 --> 0:19:59.840 most helpful replies to that, and then they would actually 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.480 pend those notes to the original tweets. So, in theory, 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:07.560 anytime that that tweet is sent around, if it's retweeted, 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:11.560 even if it's screenshot, at somehow they want those notes, 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.639 you know, those replies to exist with the original tweets 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:17.560 so that you would see them side by side. It's 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.919 a little bit clunky right now, because again it doesn't 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.000 exist just yet, but at least in sirie, all of 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:25.440 the notes and the fact checks would kind of ride 0:20:25.440 --> 0:20:30.399 along with the original. You know, it's funny when Tim said, uh, Wikipedia, 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:32.119 I thought of that too, And I also thought of 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:34.800 um ways, like this whole idea of community involvement, like 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:36.760 you know, you're saying when there's a cop ground or 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:39.640 there's a traffic accident, or you know, like you don't 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:41.080 have to be a part of it, but you do, 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:43.280 you like you kind of want to help out. Could 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.080 this possibly set the stage for a model going forward 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:51.280 for social in terms of policing itself. I think that 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.320 would be the hope if this does work. I mean, 0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.760 why not implement this on Facebook right or in Instagram. 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:01.320 I think that we're looking right now at a bunch 0:21:01.320 --> 0:21:04.320 of regulators in Washington who want to change the rules 0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.800 around speech online, and we're seeing companies try to come 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:11.320 up with creative ways to you know, basically appease them 0:21:11.320 --> 0:21:14.399 without necessarily changing the rules. And so I think this 0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:16.879 is one of those examples where Twitter saying, hey, we're 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:19.399 gonna we're gonna give this a shot, and in this works, 0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:22.440 maybe this is the best way to sack check or police. 0:21:22.520 --> 0:21:25.199 You know, these big platforms online and and we'll do it, 0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:27.560 and we'll let you know the regulators decide whether or 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.200 not they want to require other companies to do the same. Hey, Kurt, 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:32.720 I want to hit another story that you filed earlier 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:36.840 today about the music service title Square buying the company 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.280 for close to three million dollars in a stock in 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:42.080 cash deal. When I tweeted this out this morning, Kurt, 0:21:42.200 --> 0:21:44.560 somebody replied to me and said, Oh, I had forgotten 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:47.359