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Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanavak. We're here every day bringing

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Speaker 1: you the latest news from the world to business and finance,

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Speaker 1: plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business

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Speaker 1: Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and

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Speaker 1: analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can

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Speaker 1: download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com.

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Speaker 1: You can also listen to our radio show at two

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Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio or watch us on

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Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. We talked about New York

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Speaker 1: City receiving its first delivery of the one J and

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Speaker 1: J vaccine. But you are seeing Tim vaccine manufacturers facing

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Speaker 1: a global shortage of raw materials that actually came from

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Speaker 1: the head of the world's biggest vaccine maker and also

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Speaker 1: the World Health Organization. So you know here we are.

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Speaker 1: You're in. Vaccines are rolling out, but now we're trying

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Speaker 1: to find the vaccinators and the places to do it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: we've learned over the past few months it is very

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Speaker 1: complicated to roll out of vaccine globally, not to mention

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Speaker 1: just develop bit in such a short period of time. G. G.

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Speaker 1: Grand Ball is Senior Scholar at the Johns Hopkins Center

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Speaker 1: for Health Security at the Bloomberg School of Public Health.

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Speaker 1: Joins us right now on the phone from Baltimore. GG,

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Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. UM, what are you watching right now?

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Speaker 1: What is the most important thing when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the pandemic recovery? To keep an eye on the vaccination rates?

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Speaker 1: For sure? UM? They right now we have in the US,

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Speaker 1: we have three vaccines with the use authorization. Hopefully we'll

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Speaker 1: have more globally. There's a few others. Um. It's it's

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Speaker 1: really just about trying to get as many people vaccinated

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Speaker 1: so that um, we can Um that plus masks and

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Speaker 1: social distancing spread the stop to spread of this virus.

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Speaker 1: We're doing a pretty good job though, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Vaccine Tracker. As of yesterday, we hit just

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Speaker 1: over two million vaccine doses given per day according to

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Speaker 1: the seven day rolling average. That's that's a pretty pretty

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Speaker 1: good rollout, right. Oh, it's really so encouraging to see, um.

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Speaker 1: And and we definitely it couldn't happen at a better time,

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Speaker 1: because you know, we have as you know these variants

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Speaker 1: that are that are emerging that we're keeping, that we're

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Speaker 1: tracking more diligently now UM, and some of them are

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Speaker 1: more transmissible. So we really do need to get people

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Speaker 1: vaccinated as well as stick with the other stuff UM

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Speaker 1: to be able to stop the spread of this virus.

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Speaker 1: So g G, this is what I want to know.

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Speaker 1: You guys, you scientists, You understand kind of viruses, what

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Speaker 1: they can do, how they can mutate, the variants that

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Speaker 1: can come out there, and then you've got on the

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Speaker 1: other side the vaccine that's fighting it. So what is

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Speaker 1: kind of the mix between how quickly we have to

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Speaker 1: get x percentage of our population vaccinated to stay ahead

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Speaker 1: of the variants. And I know it's never like black

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Speaker 1: and white here and very clear, but tell me kind

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Speaker 1: of what you are keeping an eye on here. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people who UM, you know, all

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Speaker 1: of these things and models because there's so many variables

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Speaker 1: to be able to project how many people need to

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Speaker 1: be vaccinated to be able to keep variants of bay etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And we have the whole population of children that are

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Speaker 1: not even right now being planned to get vaccinated UM,

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Speaker 1: and so you know it's going to take a while

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Speaker 1: before we get anything towards what we've been you know,

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Speaker 1: talking about her immunity or anything like that. UM. But

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Speaker 1: so I I just UM would like to see the

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Speaker 1: demand UM and supply match up a little better for

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Speaker 1: a vaccine and UM and so that you know, people

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Speaker 1: pharmacies are more aggressively advertising it and trying to get

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Speaker 1: those people who are hesitant to sign up, and and

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Speaker 1: to show that these vaccines are have a good safety

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Speaker 1: record and that they have really amazing efficacy to be

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Speaker 1: able especially to prevent hospitalizations and deaths based on the

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Speaker 1: current rate on the modeling that you're seeing, When is

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Speaker 1: that equilibrium going to to be reached? When is demand

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Speaker 1: not going to exceed supply? UM? I I mean, so

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Speaker 1: the President UM said that every adult should be able

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Speaker 1: to be vaccinated in the US by May. UM. That

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Speaker 1: would be fantastic. I'm also waiting, UM. But then we

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Speaker 1: were going to have kids, UM, and there are trials

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Speaker 1: that are starting up. I'm hoping that that will be

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Speaker 1: before the end of the year that kids can start

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Speaker 1: being vaccinated UM. Hopefully much neoner than that. UM. And

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Speaker 1: then of course kids have to be vaccinated. Forgive me

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Speaker 1: for saying that. But I'm just curious. Do we have

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Speaker 1: to have kids vaccinated in order to get hurt immunity?

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Speaker 1: And it is that is that got to be part

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Speaker 1: of the process. Um, I don't I think that that

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Speaker 1: disease could be uh stopped in other ways. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we know that we can stop spread of disease with

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Speaker 1: you know, good ventilation, masks, etcetera. Um, and and these

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Speaker 1: things will change over time. But um, but I think

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Speaker 1: it's just pure public health and etcetera. Would be great

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Speaker 1: to have kids be vaccinated so that if there are

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Speaker 1: any long term effects of the disease, that we're limiting that.

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Speaker 1: Um in children? How do you do clinical trial when

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Speaker 1: it comes to a vaccine on a on a child?

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Speaker 1: I mean these are people who are under eighteen and

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Speaker 1: have to get consent from their parents obviously, but how

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Speaker 1: does that work? I mean that sounds very complicated and sticky. Well, Um,

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Speaker 1: kids participate in clinical trials all the time. UM and

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Speaker 1: uh and so yes does involve consent for their parents?

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Speaker 1: And um, there are I mean not just this uh

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Speaker 1: these vaccines, but all kinds of medical treatments. UM. Where

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Speaker 1: the balance are sometimes kids uh, you know, especially older

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Speaker 1: kids really enjoy participating in it and UH and giving

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Speaker 1: back and participating in the science. So it's something everyone

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Speaker 1: can do. UM. I have my one of my kids

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Speaker 1: in a in a brain study to study the team

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Speaker 1: the teen brain for for ten years, and so it's

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Speaker 1: kind of fun and interesting testing. How important is it

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Speaker 1: that we continue to do testing for the virus? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really important, and strangely, for a lot of different reasons,

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Speaker 1: people are still trying to figure out. Testing has been

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Speaker 1: down recently, so UM we need testing to be able

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Speaker 1: to figure out, you know, not only how many people

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Speaker 1: are positive and how how many cases we have, but

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Speaker 1: also UM, an increasing number of those positive cases are

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Speaker 1: getting sequenced so that we can keep a track on

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Speaker 1: the variants so and see which, you know, new ones

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Speaker 1: are emerging and which ones are are more present than

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Speaker 1: than we'd like them to be. So UM testing is

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Speaker 1: really important. But for whatever reason, whether it's bad weather

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Speaker 1: or people are sick of this, or resources are devoted

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Speaker 1: to vaccines versus testing, it has been down recently. I

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Speaker 1: I wonder if that's also because people are seeing numbers

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Speaker 1: go down, and maybe it's down also because you know,

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Speaker 1: we aren't really around any major holidays like we were

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago. UM g D I I do

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Speaker 1: wonder when it comes to this, just what things look

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Speaker 1: like on the other side. I ran to a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine in the lobby of our building yesterday. She

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Speaker 1: lives really close to us, she's a neighbor. It's been

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Speaker 1: a year since we've gotten to hang out with with

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Speaker 1: her and her family. And I was saying, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: so close, like you know, just a few months, and

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Speaker 1: she looked at me, gave me this look, and she's like, no,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be with us forever. UM, where

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Speaker 1: do you fall? Well, I think some things will be

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Speaker 1: will be different forever and and it'll probably take us

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Speaker 1: some time to realize just how much thing have changed

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Speaker 1: and what's UM, what's going to stick around? UM? But

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Speaker 1: I mean post vaccine and when cases are low, I

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Speaker 1: think things are going to be a lot better for

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Speaker 1: for most people with UM. I think you know the

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Speaker 1: recommendations for people who are vaccinated to continue to wear masks.

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Speaker 1: It's because community transmission is still so high. So the

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Speaker 1: vaccine doesn't protect you from getting infected, it protects you

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Speaker 1: from the combing to that illness and UM. And so

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Speaker 1: we're still trying to figure out what that means for everyone.

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Speaker 1: But it should really help to reduce bread and when

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Speaker 1: spread goes down, then we all benefit and I think

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Speaker 1: we'll be able to hang out a lot more. But

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Speaker 1: g two Tim's point and Tim's friends point. You know,

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Speaker 1: there's a story on the Bloomberg about you know, where

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Speaker 1: we are and hunting for the coronavirus's origin. We still

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Speaker 1: don't really exactly know where this came from or how

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Speaker 1: it came about. At the same time, we have talked

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Speaker 1: to a lot of folks too the virus, you know,

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Speaker 1: hunters that are out there that said there's another two

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Speaker 1: hundred or I don't know how many that are out

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Speaker 1: there that can be just as problematic. I mean, do

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Speaker 1: we need to then, ultimately going forward, live in a

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Speaker 1: world where we're constantly on kind of pins and needles

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Speaker 1: and worried about wait a minute, where did you come from?

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Speaker 1: Maybe you brought something into this country. Well, I hope

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Speaker 1: that we are doing we'll do a lot better job

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Speaker 1: of figuring out and responding to pathogens as they emerge

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Speaker 1: a lot faster. I mean, the vaccine, it's amazing we

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Speaker 1: have I mean vaccine, multiple vaccines in a year. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say that that isn't amazing, that it's

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Speaker 1: totally amazing, but UM, you know, the science of making

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Speaker 1: sure that we, you know, figure out what things are

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Speaker 1: likely to emerge. UM, maybe have a more broad coronavirus

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Speaker 1: coronavirus vaccine that can protect against multiple types of strains

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Speaker 1: that we think are going to emerge. All these things

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Speaker 1: require UM a lot more dedication of resources and thinking

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Speaker 1: about all of these health security issues as really a

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Speaker 1: national security priority. I mean, this is this is devastating

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Speaker 1: to the US and UM, and we could have been

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Speaker 1: better prepared. G. We only have like fifteen seconds left

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Speaker 1: because MR and A vaccines are are being used now

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Speaker 1: and we were able to develop them so quickly. Does

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Speaker 1: this mean in the future we can respond very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: I hope. So, I hope. So. It's so exciting that

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Speaker 1: those vaccines were so quick to develop and that they

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Speaker 1: work so well. I think it's going to be a

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Speaker 1: new age for for that kind of technology and vaccines

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Speaker 1: in general. Yeah. Right. The collaboration too, and the way

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Speaker 1: they were able to move so quickly. G. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much. UM. G. G. Gronville, Senior scholar at Johns

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Speaker 1: Hopkins Center for Health Security at Bloomberg School of Public

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Speaker 1: Health on the phone from Baltimore, and just a reminder,

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Speaker 1: of course, uh, the school supported by Michael R. Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: founder of Bloomberg LP and Bloomberg Philanthropies. This is Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim

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Speaker 1: Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. Well, the cover story in the

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Speaker 1: magazine this week, we mentioned it earlier. It's about fer

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Speaker 1: Fightser uh and really kind of their vaccine capitalism and

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Speaker 1: going inside Fiser's I love this headline fast fraud and

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Speaker 1: lucrative vaccine distribution, and I really feel like they're being

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Speaker 1: given accolades, but they're also getting a bunch of heat.

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Speaker 1: As we said earlier, Yeah, they are. Look, there is

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Speaker 1: no playbook to how a company responds to a pandemic,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's pretty much. That's that's what one of

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Speaker 1: the things that the piece goes into. Joining us right

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Speaker 1: now on the access line is Joel Webber, editor at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week, and Stephanie Baker, one of the reporters

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Speaker 1: on this piece, Financial Investigation, senior writer at Bloomberg News. Joel,

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Speaker 1: why was was this the the perfect story for the

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Speaker 1: cover this week. Well, I think the Fighter um shot

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Speaker 1: and vaccine is one of the biggest success stories ever Frankly,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like, to go from a pandemic to a

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Speaker 1: vaccine in a year is is a wonder and we've

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Speaker 1: we've written about that. But what we hadn't ever explored

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Speaker 1: UM and with Stephanie and her co author Cynthia drove

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Speaker 1: into in this story is is sort of behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes UM logistics and distribution challenges and and also keep

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Speaker 1: in mind here like the Fighter is a publicly traded

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Speaker 1: company that did not take money from the government and

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Speaker 1: because of that, they didn't have any strings on on

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Speaker 1: how they went about even pricing that, and that I

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Speaker 1: thought was a really interesting angle, uh and one that

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Speaker 1: you know speaks to also just the legacy of what

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Speaker 1: we know about the pharmaceutical industry, which pricing has always

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Speaker 1: been an issue with and it was actually the issue

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Speaker 1: that Albert Borla, who's the CEO of Fightser, was expecting

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Speaker 1: to deal with when he took over the job at

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Speaker 1: FISER a year before the pandemic happened. So so Stephanielle,

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Speaker 1: I just want to turn it over to you because

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Speaker 1: I thought so much of the reporting in this was

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Speaker 1: was spot on and really interesting. And tell us, how

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Speaker 1: does FIGHTSER going to go about deciding who gets the vaccine? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's a pretty opaque process still despite all

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Speaker 1: our digging. I think it is a mix of your

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Speaker 1: place in the queue, when did you get your order

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Speaker 1: in your order size, production, forecast calls from world leaders. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, we went into detail about how Israel managed

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Speaker 1: to get its hands on so many doses. And as

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Speaker 1: you know, Israel is a world leader in terms of

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Speaker 1: vaccination rates and that is thanks to FISER because they

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Speaker 1: are almost exclusively used in FISER for the vaccination campaign.

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Speaker 1: And UH Israel's Prime Minister of Benjamin Netanyah, who spoke

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Speaker 1: to UH FISER CEO Albert Bola more than twenty times.

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Speaker 1: Um uh. And you know one of the reasons why

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Speaker 1: Israel got priority access was well a paid more paid

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Speaker 1: about thirty dollars ago, about more than the US did,

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Speaker 1: and be it Um offered to use Israel as a

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Speaker 1: real world case study for how effective the vaccine is

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Speaker 1: and that has UM generated a stream of positive headlines

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Speaker 1: about how effective the Fiser vaccine is. Um. You know,

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Speaker 1: Israel was vaccinating sixteen to eighteen year olds at a

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Speaker 1: time when Europe was still waiting to vaccinate eight year olds.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of what we went into is how

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Speaker 1: did that happen? Um? Why was Europe so behind in

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Speaker 1: terms of Fiser's distribution, and and why did Israel pull ahead?

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Speaker 1: And really came down to these few things. Uh, the

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Speaker 1: EU European Union of course was late to place their order.

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Speaker 1: That was one factor. But um, you know, Israel obviously

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Speaker 1: offered a very unique opportunity for the company to showcase

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Speaker 1: how great their macnine is. Yeah, exactly. There's a line

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Speaker 1: in your story, um, the story that you and your

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Speaker 1: colleagues did, Stephanie, where you talk about Fiser not bound

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Speaker 1: to serve a global health agenda. Um, but having said

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Speaker 1: that that there will come a day where there will

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Speaker 1: be an autopsy of the pandemic and that one of

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Speaker 1: the main questions will be how a single company came

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Speaker 1: to hold such power over so many Because Fiser is

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Speaker 1: in that position. Yeah, absolutely, I mean, I think Fiser

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Speaker 1: really stands out because it's the biggest player taking a

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Speaker 1: commercial approach to COVID vaccines. Obviously, there are other players

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Speaker 1: on the market. There's Maderna. They don't really have the

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Speaker 1: capacity to produce at the level that Fiser does. UM.

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Speaker 1: There's Astra Zeneca, which does have a huge production capability,

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Speaker 1: but they've promised to sell their vaccine on a not

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Speaker 1: for profit basis for just a few dollars of dose

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Speaker 1: during the pandemic UM. So Fiser's really cut a very

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Speaker 1: commercial approach to this. And you know, when I was

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Speaker 1: looking at vaccine access, who was getting shots, who was

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Speaker 1: behind you know, I realized that Fiser didn't really didn't

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Speaker 1: finalize their deal with Kovacs this who back to facility

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Speaker 1: to distribute vaccines to low income countries until January and

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Speaker 1: it was only for about forty million doses. That was

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Speaker 1: two percent of visors projected output this year. And just

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Speaker 1: to put that into context, Astra did a deal for

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Speaker 1: a hundred and seventy million doses. Johnson and Johnson has

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Speaker 1: a preliminary deal with Kovacs for five hundred million, So

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Speaker 1: that really kind of puts it into perspective that they're

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Speaker 1: pushing this out on a commercial basis, doing bilateral deals

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Speaker 1: with countries. More than sixty countries have signed up and

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Speaker 1: we still don't know a lot. You know, there's a

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Speaker 1: lot that we set out to try to find out

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Speaker 1: that we didn't we didn't get to the bottom of

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Speaker 1: and we're going to continue to record it out to

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Speaker 1: try to find out exactly how this system worked. So,

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Speaker 1: just on the idea of vaccine capitalism, Stephanie, how does

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Speaker 1: Fightser's efforts and money money making abilities and all that

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Speaker 1: compared with with other uh, with the other vaccine efforts

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Speaker 1: that are out there and staff we only have about

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds here. Unfortunately, well you know it it is um,

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Speaker 1: it is looking at a commercial approach. It is looking

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Speaker 1: at a post pandemic approach as well, where it's updating

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Speaker 1: it's vaccine so it can tackle these new mutant variants.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's looking at a at a way

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Speaker 1: to up the price when and um, we're in a

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Speaker 1: post pandemic world. Um, you know, it will still probably

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Speaker 1: be you know, charging kind of more commercial rates than

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Speaker 1: than Astro Seneca and Johnson and Johnson. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's how it stands out. All right, We're gonna leave

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Speaker 1: at that. Listen, this is a must read. There's so much.

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Speaker 1: As Joel mentioned, the reporting on this is just killer.

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Speaker 1: Stephanie Baker, Financial Investigation Senior writer at Bloomberg News or

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Speaker 1: thanks to her along with Joel Webber, editor Bloomberg business Week,

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Speaker 1: it's the cover story. This is Bloomberg Business Week with

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Speaker 1: Carol Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: So we've got a little check on tech right now

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Speaker 1: because Twitter having a plan to fact check tweets. I

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Speaker 1: think this is something do you guys talked about on

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Speaker 1: Quickcake right? Well, you know, I gotta I gotta be honest.

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Speaker 1: We were trying our hardest to get Kurt on the

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Speaker 1: show today and I think he was busy, which is okay, Kurt,

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Speaker 1: because we got Kurt now. Yeah, but thank god you

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Speaker 1: mentioned it. Bloomberg Tech reporter Kurt Wagner joining us on

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Speaker 1: the phone. We're gonna talk about Twitter. Were also going

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Speaker 1: to talk about Square doing a deal in the music industry,

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Speaker 1: but let's start with Twitter fact check tweets. Tell us

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Speaker 1: about this and their plan. Is it a good one?

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Speaker 1: Because often times when you think of fact can you

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Speaker 1: think of the route that Facebook is taking, which is

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Speaker 1: they're partnering with you know, outside experts, right. But Twitter's

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Speaker 1: idea here, it's called bird watch, and what they want

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Speaker 1: to do is turn all of their users into pseudo

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Speaker 1: fact checkers. And so if you're on Twitter and you

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Speaker 1: come across a tweet that you know looks like it

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Speaker 1: needs more context or it needs additional information, you can

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Speaker 1: actually submit a note that could be attached to that

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Speaker 1: tweet kind of um, you know, fact check it yourself.

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Speaker 1: And so they want to turn their entire user base

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Speaker 1: into pseudo fact checkers. Okay, So when I think about this,

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Speaker 1: I think of Wikipedia, and you know, this is a

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Speaker 1: place where where that actually works pretty well on Wikipedia,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't translate to other corners of the Internet.

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Speaker 1: It hasn't worked well to stop disinformation from spreading on

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Speaker 1: the platforms that that you write about so much. What

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Speaker 1: makes Twitter think it will work on Twitter? Well? I

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Speaker 1: think that they would argue that they already see people

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Speaker 1: doing this, they just don't do it in this exact format, right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, how often have you've seen someone reply to

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Speaker 1: a tweet and and say, hey, you know this is wrong,

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Speaker 1: or hey you you didn't mention x, or they quote

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Speaker 1: tweet it right and they had their own commentary that way.

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Speaker 1: So Twitter would say, hey, listen, people are already doing

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Speaker 1: a version of this. We just haven't really you know,

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Speaker 1: built it as its own kind of fact checking product,

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Speaker 1: and they think that if they do that, they can

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Speaker 1: kind of take all of those inputs that people are

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Speaker 1: already providing, which just make them easier for other people

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Speaker 1: to find. So one of the challenging things about this

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Speaker 1: about fact checking on Twitter as it as it stands

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Speaker 1: now is oftentimes the tweet with the misinformation gets retweeted

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Speaker 1: and so many more times, and it gets so much

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Speaker 1: more engagement than any corrected tweet or any sort of

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Speaker 1: fact check that is a reply. How does Twitter handle

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Speaker 1: that well in this instance, So, imagine a hundred people

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Speaker 1: submit a note for a particular tweet, right Twitter would

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Speaker 1: use an algorithm to basically pick the one or two

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Speaker 1: most helpful replies to that, and then they would actually

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Speaker 1: pend those notes to the original tweets. So, in theory,

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Speaker 1: anytime that that tweet is sent around, if it's retweeted,

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Speaker 1: even if it's screenshot, at somehow they want those notes,

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Speaker 1: you know, those replies to exist with the original tweets

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Speaker 1: so that you would see them side by side. It's

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Speaker 1: a little bit clunky right now, because again it doesn't

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Speaker 1: exist just yet, but at least in sirie, all of

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Speaker 1: the notes and the fact checks would kind of ride

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Speaker 1: along with the original. You know, it's funny when Tim said, uh, Wikipedia,

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Speaker 1: I thought of that too, And I also thought of

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Speaker 1: um ways, like this whole idea of community involvement, like

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Speaker 1: you know, you're saying when there's a cop ground or

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Speaker 1: there's a traffic accident, or you know, like you don't

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Speaker 1: have to be a part of it, but you do,

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Speaker 1: you like you kind of want to help out. Could

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Speaker 1: this possibly set the stage for a model going forward

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Speaker 1: for social in terms of policing itself. I think that

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Speaker 1: would be the hope if this does work. I mean,

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Speaker 1: why not implement this on Facebook right or in Instagram.

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Speaker 1: I think that we're looking right now at a bunch

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Speaker 1: of regulators in Washington who want to change the rules

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Speaker 1: around speech online, and we're seeing companies try to come

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Speaker 1: up with creative ways to you know, basically appease them

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Speaker 1: without necessarily changing the rules. And so I think this

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Speaker 1: is one of those examples where Twitter saying, hey, we're

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Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna give this a shot, and in this works,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is the best way to sack check or police.

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Speaker 1: You know, these big platforms online and and we'll do it,

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Speaker 1: and we'll let you know the regulators decide whether or

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Speaker 1: not they want to require other companies to do the same. Hey, Kurt,

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Speaker 1: I want to hit another story that you filed earlier

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Speaker 1: today about the music service title Square buying the company

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Speaker 1: for close to three million dollars in a stock in

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Speaker 1: cash deal. When I tweeted this out this morning, Kurt,

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Speaker 1: somebody replied to me and said, Oh, I had forgotten

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Speaker 1: about Title that even existed. This is this is I

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Speaker 1: think a head scratcher of a deal for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. What is Square going to do with Title?

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Speaker 1: Oh and I'm kind of bearing the lead here. Jay

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Speaker 1: Z is joining squares board. Oops. Right, yeah, you may

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Speaker 1: have heard of jay Z before. Yeah, going to be

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Speaker 1: involved now. Um No, I think it is a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a head scratcher on the surface, But all

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Speaker 1: kind of explain how Squares thinking of this, right, which

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Speaker 1: is that they're saying, listen, we have built an entire

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Speaker 1: business around helping entrepreneurs, small businesses, you know, build their business. Well,

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Speaker 1: musicians are entrepreneurs as well, and they're trying to build

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Speaker 1: a business. They're trying to sell merchandise to trying to

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Speaker 1: sell tickets, albums, whatever it may be. And so they

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Speaker 1: see this kind of as an extension of what they

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Speaker 1: already do, but into a new industry. Now the question

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Speaker 1: is did they need to buy a streaming music service

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Speaker 1: in order to do that? I would say probably not.

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Speaker 1: But when you really think about how much money this is,

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Speaker 1: the very small amount of money for a company like Square,

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Speaker 1: and if they can get someone like jay Z on

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Speaker 1: their board and get someone like jay Z involved in

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Speaker 1: kind of this idea of commerce around music, you know,

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Speaker 1: that might be a three d dollars well spent. So

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Speaker 1: it's a little early to tell um, but it is

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Speaker 1: a bit of a head scratcher. But you could see,

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Speaker 1: I guess in fury maybe where they're thinking, you don't

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Speaker 1: sound convinced just quickly. I'm a little on the fence.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I know that you know, Jack Dorsey

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Speaker 1: and jay Z are buddy, and so part of me

431
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 1: wonders how much of this is, you know, one friend

432
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 1: buying another friends company. But again, it's a small amount

433
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,000
Speaker 1: of money for Squares, so maybe it's the that worth

434
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: taking right right exactly all right, Kurt, thank you so much.

435
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 1: Kurt Wagner, Technology Porter, Bloomberg News joining us on the

436
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 1: phone from San Francisco. But it is interesting to see

437
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: some of these kind of collaborations for certainly what I

438
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: would consider the new tech tech companies. Also some cool

439
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: pictures that Square released earlier today of Jay z and

440
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: And and Jack Dorsey. I want to be on that board.

441
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: I'm roam a journal. Yeah, but you let me drive?

442
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no no, no, honey, please, I'll do the

443
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: right revel I want to drive, just drive. Good question,

444
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: Let's try the drive to the globe. Thanks Wells on

445
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. All right, just about eleven minutes left in

446
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 1: today's trading session. We are seeing stocks certainly off their

447
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,399
Speaker 1: loads of the session, but definitely off their highs of

448
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: the session as well. Let's see what our next guest

449
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 1: has to say. Brian Jacobson is with US, multi asset

450
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:30,200
Speaker 1: strategist at Wells Fargo Asset Management six hundred three billion

451
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: dollars in assets under management, with us on the phone

452
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Hey Brian, good to have you here

453
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: with Tim and myself on Bloomberg. Gotta start with technology.

454
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: How do you see the pullback in tech stocks? What

455
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: does it say to you? Yeah? Thanks for having me

456
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 1: on Yeah, pull back in technology, We actually weren't really

457
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 1: all that surprised about my way My team has been

458
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 1: positioning portfolios has been really more favoring in the what

459
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 1: has been dubbed, you know, the reopening trade. As far

460
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 1: as you know, people are getting a little bit tired

461
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 1: of doing their video meetings and things like that, might

462
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 1: actually want to get out and see people face to face.

463
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,359
Speaker 1: So does that mean selling tech names? Selling tech names

464
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: are just not adding to positions? Well, the our approach

465
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: is to not focus on individual names, but as far

466
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,679
Speaker 1: as like the futures contracts and the broad indexes, and

467
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 1: one of our favorite trades has been going longer the

468
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: small cap stocks and then shorting larger cap stocks. And

469
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,960
Speaker 1: we did take off our trade, which was long nas

470
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: deck a few weeks ago, and so it's not necessarily

471
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: outright shorting it, except for to the extent that the

472
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,800
Speaker 1: kind of positioning, as far as favoring smaller cap stocks

473
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: over larger cap stocks, is reflecting a short bias towards

474
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: some of those names. Hey, what did you make of

475
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: fitchri Pal's comments today? Said an online event that he'd

476
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: be quote concerned by disorderly markets, but he stopped short

477
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: of offering steps to curb heightened volatility. What do you

478
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: make of it? Uh? Yeah, I think that like a

479
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 1: lot of people are just a little disappointed. I wasn't

480
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,200
Speaker 1: really expecting him to come out and say, Hey, we're

481
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: gonna do yield curve control or we're gonna, you know,

482
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,719
Speaker 1: actually go out and extend the maturity of our our portfolio.

483
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: But uh, you know, his unwillingness to be a little

484
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,800
Speaker 1: bit more I guess forth right, or to commit to

485
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,360
Speaker 1: doing something I think got people a little bit nervous.

486
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: You know, their policy meeting is coming up on March seventeenth,

487
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: and so a lot of people are going to be

488
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: kind of looking or we're looking to this as being

489
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: maybe one of the last opportunities before the meeting to

490
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: get some indication about whether or not they're actually going

491
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: to do something about the rise in the longer term

492
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: yields that we have seen. You know, there's a lot

493
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: going on in the treasury market as far as with

494
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: increase in inflation expectations, people getting excited about the growth outlook,

495
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 1: so that can push up real interest rates. And then

496
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 1: plus you also have issues going on with the supplemental

497
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 1: leverage ratio that the THUD still hasn't taken action on

498
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: as far as you know, the lid that banks calculates

499
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,880
Speaker 1: um one of their leverage ratios. That could possibly affect

500
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: the treasury market as well. So there's a lot going

501
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: on there, and so understandably there's quite a bit of

502
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 1: bond market volatility. There's nothing going on, Brian Jacobson, There's

503
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: there is a lot going on, and I do think

504
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: we're trying to understand, you know, is the treasury market

505
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: kind of catching up to the run up that we've

506
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: seen off of the lows on the equity side of things.

507
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: Is the treasury market getting ready for Yeah, it's going

508
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: to be better in the second half of the year,

509
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's going to be a runaway market. We

510
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 1: still have millions of people out of work, and I

511
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: do wonder how much you anticipate that holding back economic

512
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: growth or it won't and we'll just continue to see

513
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: even deeper moves and that K shaped recovery and we'll

514
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: see that reflected uh in the financial markets. Well, you know,

515
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: hopefully as the economy reopens and with the federal Reserve

516
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: staying very loose for a long time and focusing on

517
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 1: the the shadow unemployment rate or whatever you might want

518
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: to call it. As far as you know, the idea

519
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: that a lot of people are being misclassified so it's

520
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,399
Speaker 1: closer to ten percent as opposed to the six percent

521
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: that's being published, is that maybe that can help close

522
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 1: the k a little bit, to make it a little

523
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: bit more of a V for more people. Hey, I

524
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: want to hear your thoughts on international relations right now,

525
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,120
Speaker 1: because you said that big wild cards when it comes

526
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: to the market could be relations between the U S

527
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: and China and the US and iran Um. What could

528
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: happen Let's start with China. Yeah, and maybe this is

529
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: just because just looking at what are some of the

530
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: old fears trying to recycle from those as well, because

531
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: they really haven't gone away. Right. We know that at

532
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: the beginning of two thousand twenty, one of the big

533
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: concerns was the relationships between US and iran UM and

534
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: just under President Biden. Now as far as with the

535
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: rocket launch in Syria, you know, it's like what's going

536
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: to be happening next in the Middle East. It's kind

537
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: of always a wild card there. And then as far

538
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: as with the relationship with China, we know that President Biden.

539
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: Our expectation was that not much was going to change

540
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: except for perhaps the tone and the willingness to work

541
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: through more of the multi national or the um you know,

542
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: kind of in a concerted effort with our allies on

543
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: some of these incredibly important topics. With China, obviously, the

544
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: the economic numbers have been just outstanding, but we do

545
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: think that, you know, that's always one of those things

546
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 1: that you can worry about as far as what will

547
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: that relationship look like going forward. Um, the US has

548
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: already shown it's willing to impose sanctions, you know, the

549
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: President Biden has shown that he's wanting to pose sanctions

550
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 1: on countries that aren't necessarily abiding by the rules of

551
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 1: the road. Well, is there a trade here for you

552
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: on that or concern about it? Well, a little bit.

553
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: One of the ways in which we're positioning our portfolios

554
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: is that we still do like emerging markets. But emerging markets,

555
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, it's a very broad area. Well, China, we

556
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: think that can has done very well. If you think

557
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: about em Asia, uh, you know, is it e m

558
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: Asia x China that is the more attractively priced area.

559
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 1: If you think about momentum that's been favoring China, but

560
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: from like evaluation, not that valuations always mattered too much,

561
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: but as far as you know the fundamentals with the earnings,

562
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: there are other areas like let's say with India, Indonesia, Korea,

563
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 1: other places within the Asia Pacific region that are probably

564
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: a little bit more attractively priced for us. All Right,

565
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: gonna leave it on that note. Listen. Thank you so much, Brian,

566
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: appreciate it. Brian Jacobson, multi assets strategist at Wells Fargo

567
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,920
Speaker 1: Asset Management. We did cover a lot of asset classes there.

568
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 1: He's got about or Wells Farger I should say, about

569
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,200
Speaker 1: six three billion dollars in assets on the management. Brian

570
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from Milwaukee. Thanks for listening

571
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg Business Week. Download a podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,

572
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to

573
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 1: our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio

574
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: or watch us on YouTube. Search to Bloomberg Global News