WEBVTT - How Corporate America Is Paying For EV Infrastructure (Podcast) 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.320 Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel podcast. On Paul swing you 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:07.760 along with my co host Lisa Brahmas. Each day we 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.440 bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.600 and your money, whether at the grocery store or the 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.960 trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple podcast 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.040 or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.680 Bloomberg dot com. We are broadcasting live from the Bloomberg 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:25.280 New Energy Finance Summit at the Grand Hyatt in New 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:27.400 York City, and one of the big questions here Paul 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:31.080 is how do you develop an infrastructure to allow electric 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:35.320 vehicles to really gain a popularity that would change the 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.000 fossil fuel emissions of the United States. Joining us to 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.239 discuss that is Pascual Romano. He is President, chief executive 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.800 officer of charge Point, normally based in Campbell Campbell, California, 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:47.800 but he decided to come here even though it is 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.960 not the weather of Campbell, California. Pasquale, So let's talk 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.680 about this your business, How exactly is it establishing some 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:59.680 sort of framework network charging stations for those electric vehicles? Um, 0:00:59.680 --> 0:01:02.880 the the key is cars charge where their park most 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:04.959 of the time, it's a car's about a four percent 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:07.800 utilized asset. So of the time, it's kind of like 0:01:07.840 --> 0:01:10.080 your cat. It just sleeps all day, and where it 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:13.600 sleeps is at home while you're sleeping, or at work. Uh, 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:15.960 and a little bit of retail and around town. So 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.960 the problem seems daunting if you have to populate all 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:22.160 those parking lots that you see when you're driving around. Um, 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:24.559 but if you view it, if you create a business 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:27.920 model like we have that lets each business engage with 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:29.920 the v charging and pay for their portion of it, 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:33.680 or each property manager, it's actually a completely tractable problem. 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.720 So that's how how we've done it is essentially using 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.080 businesses to crowdfund a very large network could be charging, 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.240 and we introduce models to make it really simple. So 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.280 pass well, just get let us step back a little bit. 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:47.240 Where are we in this country in terms of adoption 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.000 of electric vehicles? I see more and more of them 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:52.720 out there. I see more and more charging stations. Actually 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:57.080 bloomberg downa Princeton has a charging station. Uh. Just generally, 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:58.680 kind of where are we and where do you think 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:02.880 we are? Realtive that tip point to really encourage mass adoption. Yeah, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:04.600 So The way we look at it is it's uh, 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:06.440 you know, if you talk to consumers that own an 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.679 electric vehicle, they'll never go back to a gas car. 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.679 The problem is there are enough makes and models to 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:16.360 fit all the lifestyle choices and and affordability requirements of 0:02:16.440 --> 0:02:19.720 most of most consumers. Half the US market instructs and 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.960 suvsh So until there's enough choice and trucks and SUVs, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:26.520 you have a limited penetration. With all that said, Um, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:28.840 it's going about as fast as it can go given 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:32.359 how fast cars turn over. Uh. So we're super encouraged. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:36.880 You know, you had you know, three thousand cars sold 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.680 last year in the US that that had to plug. 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.760 You have more coming this year and uh this and 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.560 next year is a literally a model you're extravaganza for 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.280 most of the O E M s that are really dot. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.679 What is the cost of filling up a car with electricity? Uh, 0:02:51.800 --> 0:02:53.840 compare with filling up a car with gas? Yeah, it's 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.200 a it's a great question. Um, if you fill up 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:58.880 a car, if you charge your car off peak or 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.480 you use commercial rates at work. By the way, most 0:03:01.520 --> 0:03:03.560 employers give the power away, It's about the cost of 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:07.600 coffee to give someone although we have good coffee. We 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:09.400 do have good coffee, so that coffee probably is a 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.320 little more exposive. But I do have to wonder though, 0:03:11.800 --> 0:03:14.240 even if somebody is bearing that cost. So if the 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:17.440 if the company is bearing that cost, then that means 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.480 that they're going to be less inclined to build out 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:24.119 this network. If the cost is is priviitially expensive, Yeah, 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.680 it's actually not compared to other things. So first of all, 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:28.840 let's talk about how much it actually costs. It's about 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.720 four three to five hundred bucks a year, depending on 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.680 the utility rate that you're charging the car on to 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:39.560 basically uh fuel it to the average drive miles a 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:42.720 year about their car per car. Now, let's look at 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.760 what corporations currently spend. They spend about three thousand dollars 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:49.480 subsidizing cafeterias. They spend about two per employee. They spent 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:53.280 about two thousand per employee on health and wellness Jim's 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:55.480 things like that. So when you eat that sandwich or 0:03:55.480 --> 0:03:58.080 go to that yoga class at work, your employers really 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:02.480 subsidizing your uh, you know, your benefit there. Um, they 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:07.160 spend a three to fos a year on coffee per employee, 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.600 and it's that or less to give people both the 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.680 infrastructure on our subscription services for infrastructure, they can fund 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.640 that plus the energy, so it's not that much more 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.960 money than coffee. They've viewed as pretty insignificant. So how 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:24.440 many clients are customers do you have with your charging stations? 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.120 And well, what's kind of the growth you guys are seeing. 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.560 It's about about eight thousand UH clients and customers all 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.000 over the United States and Canada now in Europe where 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.080 we entered Europe about a year and a half two 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:38.240 years ago. UM, so it's growing very, very very quickly. 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.920 To give you a stat that's interesting because I think 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:44.920 it's a leading indicator. fIF of the fortune one d 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:48.360 are on charge point and obviously we don't have a 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:51.719 hundred percent market share, so that shows you what the 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.240 large employers are setting as trends for the future game. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.640 So I'm just wondering. I noticed that Chevron had invested 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:00.320 in your company. Are there other oil companies big oil 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:04.080 UH that's investing in in this company or is it 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.800 exclusive to Chevron? It's not. Our investor sets, not that 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.080 there's no exclusivity in our investor set. We have two 0:05:10.080 --> 0:05:12.520 O E M s UH BMW and Dame lad. We 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:16.000 have two large utility groups in Constellation and and UH 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.040 A ep UM and and we have now Chevron UH 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.400 and there's no exclusivity. And if you see what Shell 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:26.120 has been doing in our market, not not investing in US, 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.520 but investing in acquiring companies in the space, and also BP, 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:32.000 there's a lot of motion with oil and gas. Well, 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:35.040 who are your big competitors? UM. It depends on the vertical. 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.839 So it's hard to answer that question because we're because 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.160 we've been around so long. We're an eleven year old company, 0:05:40.240 --> 0:05:42.800 raised a little over half a billion over that eleven 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.120 and years. We're the only company, regardless of size, that's 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:50.640 in every single vertical into continents, right, So we're in home, 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:56.760 multi family, workplace, UM, UH, Metroarria, fast Highway, fast fleet, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.280 all those different verticals. There's no other company that's doing 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.599 all that. But in any given vertical, you'll see the 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.080 Anil acquisition of the motor works in the home business, 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:11.240 for example, so they're there. UM. You'll see UH with Shell, 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.800 the acquisition of green Lots, you'll see UH and and 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:15.680 a few other things. You'll see them in lease Co 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:17.440 in Europe, you'll see them in a few areas in 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:20.320 the United States, So depending on the vertical, you know, 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:23.840 we got plenty of competitors. Very good. Pascual Romano, Thank 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.360 you very much. Pascual as a president and chief executive 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.239 officer of charge Point based in Cambell, California, but joining 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.559 us here in New York at the Bloomberg New Energy 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:34.280 Finance someone at the Grand Hyatt d uh in New 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.240 York City. Electric vehicles obviously, you know, people are just 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.160 wondering where and when is the tipping point for mass adoption, 0:06:41.160 --> 0:06:42.880 and I think it's probably gonna come from Detroit when 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:44.840 we get the you know, a lot more choice. This 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:46.840 maybe pay attention to the New York Auto Show coming 0:06:46.880 --> 0:07:04.680 up in April. Well, energy policymakers in Washington are frantically 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:08.040 drying to keep up with changes in consumer behavior as 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.880 well as new technologies and the energy space. To help 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:12.880 us kind of dig through some of those issues, we 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.520 welcome Sarah Sarah lattis law director and Senior Fellow Energy 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.440 and National Security Program for the Center for Strategic and 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:22.640 International Studies based in DC. But Sarah's joining us here 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:25.040 in New York at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance uh, 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:28.720 symposium Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. UM. Yeah, 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.000 we read a lot about in the press U from 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.840 maybe some of the new presidential candidates for about a 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:37.600 green New Deal. UM, lots of different flavors out there. 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:39.920 What is your sense of what some of the core 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:43.080 components of a green New Deal might incorporate. Yeah, So 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:45.680 the Green New Deal is a big idea. Uh, it's 0:07:45.720 --> 0:07:48.480 really important that everybody realized there's not a plan, so 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:50.520 it's just it's just a proposal. It's a big idea, 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.720 and fundamentally it's about tying together the issue of decarbonizing 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.800 the economy for the purposes of managing climate change and 0:07:57.920 --> 0:08:01.640 UM doing something about inequality and income and those types 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:05.520 of economic insecurity issues. There's not like a prescribed policy 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.200 behind that. But on the green side of the equation, 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.920 it's broadly about trying to find a way to reduce 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:13.720 emissions in the electric power sector, to reduce emissions from 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.440 the transportation sector, UM, and to do a lot of 0:08:16.480 --> 0:08:18.960 things to refurbish the kind of infrastructure we have to 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.840 make it a lot more energy efficient. Are there policy 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:27.080 creators drafters in President Trump's administration right now that are 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:30.840 working on proposals that could move the United States closer 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:36.560 to reducing emissions substantially. Yeah, So I think the important 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.040 thing is, uh, you know, transitioning from the Green New 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.640 Deal concept, which is really a debate happening in Congress, 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.239 to the executive branch, which is where the Trump administration 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.160 is doing a lot of their pots happening actually now 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.040 right and where they working on So a lot of 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:53.240 what they're focusing on is really um trying to do 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.760 two things. One, deregulate the US energy sector, which they've 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.320 made a lot of progress on, so remove the regulation 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:03.880 that they see impinging on the production of energy at 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.439 large across the board. And then also try to sell 0:09:06.520 --> 0:09:08.679 things like oil and natural gas and coal to other 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:10.800 countries around the world. Right, they realize we have a 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.720 huge amount of energy resources and they're so they're trying 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.760 to sort of develop those things. Those are not necessarily 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:20.920 commensurate with trying to reduce emissions. So the on the 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:23.000 natural gas side, to the extent that we're using natural 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.240 gas in the in the US as opposed to coal, 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.040 that's one of the things that they tend to focus 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:30.120 on when they talk about the success that the US 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.520 has had in terms of emissions productions. Critics of the 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.800 administration would say, you know, a lot of the regulatory efforts, 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:38.360 whether it's through the Clean Flower Plan or through the 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.040 efficiency measures that they're trying to roll back, are actually 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.160 working against emissions reduction. So it's kind of certainly a 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.640 mixed record in that regard. Well, certainly I'm seeing you know, 0:09:46.679 --> 0:09:48.480 as you as you drive around, you see more and 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.160 more wind farms, You see more and more solar panels 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.000 on just individuals homes as well as businesses. You see 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.679 big farms of solar panels. Is that being driven by 0:09:57.720 --> 0:10:01.040 just the market or is there actually policy behind it, 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.720 driving it and supporting it. Yeah, I think the really 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.160 good news stories you look across the United States, there 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:10.360 are policies that have driven renewable energy into the market um, 0:10:10.440 --> 0:10:14.720 but increasingly that's aided just by the performance of those assets, right, 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:17.800 So things like when things like rooftop solar um are 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.200 very cost competitive, utility scale solar cost competitive in a 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.920 lot of different places. Where you're seeing right now is 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.480 state level policies that are looking out and saying, hey, 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.920 we've actually been able to increase renewable kinnetration into our 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.160 electric power sector. We think it's been a good thing. 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.240 It's created jobs, it's reduced emissions. There's an industry here 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:38.079 for this kind of stuff now, and they're doubling down 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:41.120 on some of those policies. UM particular ones. When you 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:45.240 talk about deregulation, we focus a lot on oil drilling 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.359 in the United States. We focus less on our relationship 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.440 with nuclear power and some of these issues that might 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:54.560 affect national security in a way that people might be uh, 0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:56.840 not me as aware of where are we with that 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.600 and how much has deregulation kind of changed the game there. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.760 So I think in the on the nuclear power side 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.760 of the equation, the administration is focusing on national security 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.560 implications of not having a nuclear sector. And so you 0:11:09.600 --> 0:11:12.199 just saw Secretary Perry go down to Georgia and to 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.720 um announced additional loan guarantees for the sort of ailing 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:20.720 nuclear plants that are that are being built there. And 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:22.600 I think that's one of the reasons why you've seen 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:24.840 both the administration in the Hills sort of talking about 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.040 how do we support nuclear power so that it has 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.559 a future in the United States. Really, it's relatively cost constrained. 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:32.400 We don't have a lot of projects that have come 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.960 online that have been under cost or on time. They've 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.520 all been over cost and overtime UM. And then you're 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:39.680 seeing a lot of state level policy that's trying to 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.920 advantage even existing nuclear plants that can't compete in the markets. 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.000 And so I think what's happening is is there's a 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:50.839 more active dialogue, certainly UM one that this administration is 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.240 engaging in on whether or not having a vibrant nuclear 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.960 industry yields national security benefits for the United States. What 0:11:58.040 --> 0:12:02.280 about exporting the nuclear energy UH technology to other countries. Yeah, 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.960 that's a much more controversial topic. I think in the past. 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:08.280 You know, whether or not we export nuclear power technologies 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.679 to other countries really depends on the recipient country and 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.120 the level of commitment that we have from them that 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.319 it's going to be safe, that I won't have proliferation risk, 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.560 all of those sorts of things. I think the US 0:12:18.679 --> 0:12:22.000 is really concerned because the US is not as competitive 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.880 internationally as it is anymore, especially relative to people like 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.720 countries like China and Russia that are offering entirely different 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:32.160 kinds of deals for these other countries, and so, UM, 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:34.719 the US has really high standards for what it's going 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.800 to export to other countries, and so it's a it's 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:38.760 a fairly controversial issue as to how to get more 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:41.439 competitive in that field. Sarah lautus Law, we could spend 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:43.679 the next hour speaking with you, Sarah lattus Law, Thank 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:45.920 you so much for being with US, Director and Senior 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.000 Fellow for the Energy and National Security Program at c 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.200 s i S. The Center for Strategic and International Study 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.120 is based in Washington, d C. But joining us here 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:58.880 Lave from the Blueberg New Energy Finance Summit in New 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:17.240 York City. But we're here live at the Bloomberg New 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:19.440 Energy Finance Summit at the Grand Hide Hotel in New 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:22.559 York City. And one of the key issues being debated 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.439 here is security, a security of the energy grid, security 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.520 of the US infrastructure. And to help us kind of 0:13:29.559 --> 0:13:33.000 dig down on some of these issues, we welcome edgard Captivil. 0:13:33.400 --> 0:13:36.880 He is CEO of Nozomi Networks, Inc. Based in San Francisco, 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.480 but it got it joins us here in New York. 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.400 And I must note that this morning no Zomy Networks 0:13:42.840 --> 0:13:46.319 was named a twenty nineteen New Energy Pioneer by Bloomberg 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:49.040 New Energy Finance. So congratulations at Gardener thank you very much. 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.640 So talk to us a little bit about I guess 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.440 the security and industrial securities. We think about more and 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.680 more of industry being automated. That raises the risk for 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:02.720 cybersecurity issues. What is your sense of the lay of 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.840 the land right now, Um, Paul, that is absolutely correct. 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:10.000 I think automation is increasing and that dramatic pace. Traditional 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:13.800 industrial control networks are converging to be more like I 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:17.080 T networks and that means more exposed, more vulnerable to 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:21.920 to again exposure an attack. And Um, there are several 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.440 verticals in what we would call critical infrastructure that are 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:27.160 affected by this. Not only oil and gas, electric power, 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:32.840 of flavors of power, manufacturing, transportation, chemicals, pharmaceuticals. All these 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:37.800 articles rely heavily critically on their industrial control networks for 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:41.560 revenue and production. And again, as we converge and those 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.000 networks get more exposed, we try to get more data 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:48.360 out of those networks. UM, folks are more vulnerable to attack. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:52.680 So Edward, what actually do you do to prevent these attacks? Absolutely, 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.440 we have an appliance that connects to these industrial control networks. 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.800 And first the first thing we do is, you know, 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.840 you can't protect what you can see. So the first 0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:01.360 thing you want to do is provide a layer of 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:05.880 visibility in industrial control network which traditionally have been under 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.320 instrumented from a bunch of legacy reasons. There were there 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.920 were um a little bit backwards. When it comes to 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.200 technology advancement, there's been um there's been a belief that 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:20.560 they're isolated. But with this convergence, exposure and modernization is accelerating, 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:22.320 and again people want to get more out of those 0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.680 networks from a data analytics point of view, and therefore 0:15:25.680 --> 0:15:28.720 they're connecting them and that makes in them, makes them 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:33.280 more exposed. So after we provide that initial layer of visibility, 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.840 we learned about the process behavior being operated in network, 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:40.440 and we provide anomaly detection will never reality management. All 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:45.240 the cybersecurity infrastructure that allows you to monitor and protect 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:48.400 industrial control networks as if they wear I T networks. 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.800 So how about we've seen in the past very high 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:54.200 profile news stories about financial institutions being hacked and so 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:56.880 on and so forth, how would you characterize the United 0:15:56.920 --> 0:16:02.240 States industrial plant in terms of cyber security. Cybersecurity in 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.360 general is not too different from the United States than 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.720 than other places. I think the reason you have not seen, 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.400 you know, something like an industrial nine eleven or or 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.880 a major attack. Is that attacks or or these these 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.080 events have to align, you know, vulnerabilities with intent and 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:24.800 and and an author who is going to do this. 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:28.280 So when you look at industries in other regions like 0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:32.600 the Least, et cetera, for them, industrial cybersecurity attacks are 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.760 not a theoretical scenario that happens in a fairly significant way. 0:16:37.120 --> 0:16:39.400 Very few of those get get to the press. In 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:44.040 the US, that alignment hasn't happened of intent, uh, combined 0:16:44.040 --> 0:16:46.440 with the vulnerability aspect, not to a great extent. We 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:50.400 have a lot of reconnaissance activity happening from different sources, 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:53.440 and that's been in public information. But we we really 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:55.760 haven't had a major attack in the U s s 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.120 as that that has been publicly UM that has been 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:03.000 publishedist has been publicized. That's what I'm wondering. What have 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:06.120 we not heard about that has happened or at least 0:17:06.160 --> 0:17:09.080 that has been blocked. I'm wondering how big of an 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:13.199 investment are energy companies making in cybersecurity right now? It 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.520 varies by industry. UM. Some of the industries that are 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.240 more regulator or have tighter budgets obviously make make less 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:23.000 of an investment. We've seen a tremendous amount investment from 0:17:23.000 --> 0:17:26.080 an oil and gas perspective, even though those those companies 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.360 don't are not necessarily the fast movers. Electric companies from 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:34.080 downstream to upstream to downstream have also made significant investments, 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:37.800 both in the US and globally. Chemical plants, mining plants, 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:41.680 everybody who needs to ensure the reliability of their production. 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.720 If you as you talk to your clients, um, what 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:49.280 what areas of their industrial operations do they feel is 0:17:49.440 --> 0:17:54.440 most exposed? Is there a common threat or common exposure area? 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:59.240 It really depends again by by vertical um in manufacturing 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.000 or mining, it's it's primarily you know, kind of one 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.200 business in oil and gas and electric you have upstream 0:18:05.240 --> 0:18:09.439 downstream retail. We don't really get too much into the 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.240 detail because retail side because those are more like I 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.160 T networks. So I'm just wondering, how does this fit 0:18:15.200 --> 0:18:18.919 into new energy, wind and solar. Yeah, absolutely, we call 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.240 that distributed generation like everybody else UM and distribute generation 0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:27.560 has its own characteristics, but but it's absolutely UM part 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:29.600 of part of the game. So so you know, there's 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:32.760 industrial controls in a wind turbine, and I was just 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.520 wondering because you won this this New Energy Pioneer Award 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:38.639 for this year. Congratulations, thank you. And I'm just thinking 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.680 that this security is something that goes throughout every aspect 0:18:41.920 --> 0:18:44.640 of energy, and I'm just wondering, you know, is there 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.240 something unique about sort of the new energy complex when 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:53.639 it comes to security. Um, new energy is great. From 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.439 the perspective of industrial cybersecurity and exposure is not too 0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.159 different other than maybe the cost structure has to be 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:02.399 different for those remote distributed sites. But other than the 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.320 cost structure required to to serve those from our perspective, 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.720 which is uh to provide visibility and protection, it's it's 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.639 very very similar. Edguard cup Ta Vielle, thank you so 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.560 much for being with us. Edgard Captive Villas, chief executive 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:18.120 officer of Zomi Networks, which is based in San Francisco, 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:20.280 but he joins us here in New York for the 0:19:20.359 --> 0:19:38.480 Bloomberg New Energy Finance Conference. Well, Bloomberg News is reporting 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:40.600 this morning that Theresa May is inclined to put our 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.560 Brexit deal to a third vote in Parliament on Tuesday, 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:46.280 according to people familiar with the matter. Likewise, the EU 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.720 is also saying that is now prepared to handle the 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:52.320 impact of the UK leaving without an agreement, a scenario 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.639 it describes as quote increasingly likely. So a lot of 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.760 pieces are moving in the Brexit debate. To get the latest, 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:01.520 we welcome John Author's John as a senior editor for 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:06.000 Bloomberg Markets. He joins us in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. John, 0:20:06.040 --> 0:20:08.360 thanks so much for joining us. A lot of moving pieces. 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.800 As I said, what is the latest coming out of Parliament? Well, 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.919 we've heard from Theresa May in the last few minutes. 0:20:16.720 --> 0:20:21.600 She hasn't said that she's not holding a third meaningful 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:24.280 vote to use the phrase we will got used to, 0:20:25.040 --> 0:20:28.959 but she has said I'm sure correctly that she doesn't 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:34.679 yet have enough support to win one. Now what is 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:39.720 intriguing is, obviously we've also had all this glorious back 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:46.240 sit back scenes, backstage political maneuvering going on all weekend. Plainly, 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:51.960 a lot of the most euroskeptic, most pro Brexit MP's 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.800 who've been talking to have suggested that they might be 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:04.359 prepared to accept her deal as it stands in exchange 0:21:04.640 --> 0:21:09.440 for a copper bottomed promised from her to quit, which 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:11.560 which is a difficult situation for her to be into 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:13.600 present mildly sorry at least, no, no, no no, no worries 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:16.560 it all. Does anyone have like a chance of hard 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:19.480 brexit ometer? I mean, I feel like that's sort of 0:21:19.520 --> 0:21:22.080 what we're all trying to get at. It's like, are 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:26.119 we incrementally closer further away from a hard brexit that 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:30.800 leads to, you know, catastrophe fit. Various people have attempts 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:34.480 at hard brexit to meters, some of which have got 0:21:34.560 --> 0:21:37.040 us highest fifty percent. I mean, you can, you can 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.320 try to. Unfortunately, I didn't bother to check any of 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.560 them before I came to the studio. So I the 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:47.720 last I saw you had had them spike as high 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:52.240 as fifty at one point, most of most versions of 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.440 where you get from the betting on sense on a 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.480 distinctly lower than that. Yeah. Well, I guess I guess 0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.960 that the question that also is today move us closer 0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:06.360 towards the higher than or lower. I think we are 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:14.480 probably probably moving towards lower than fifty, but I wouldn't 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:19.240 want to swear to it. I suspect um that terraising 0:22:19.320 --> 0:22:25.360