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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel podcast. On Paul swing you

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Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahmas. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for you

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Speaker 1: and your money, whether at the grocery store or the

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Speaker 1: trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple podcast

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com. We are broadcasting live from the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: New Energy Finance Summit at the Grand Hyatt in New

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Speaker 1: York City, and one of the big questions here Paul

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Speaker 1: is how do you develop an infrastructure to allow electric

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Speaker 1: vehicles to really gain a popularity that would change the

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Speaker 1: fossil fuel emissions of the United States. Joining us to

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Speaker 1: discuss that is Pascual Romano. He is President, chief executive

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Speaker 1: officer of charge Point, normally based in Campbell Campbell, California,

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Speaker 1: but he decided to come here even though it is

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Speaker 1: not the weather of Campbell, California. Pasquale, So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about this your business, How exactly is it establishing some

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Speaker 1: sort of framework network charging stations for those electric vehicles? Um,

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Speaker 1: the the key is cars charge where their park most

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Speaker 1: of the time, it's a car's about a four percent

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Speaker 1: utilized asset. So of the time, it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: your cat. It just sleeps all day, and where it

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Speaker 1: sleeps is at home while you're sleeping, or at work. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and a little bit of retail and around town. So

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Speaker 1: the problem seems daunting if you have to populate all

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Speaker 1: those parking lots that you see when you're driving around. Um,

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Speaker 1: but if you view it, if you create a business

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Speaker 1: model like we have that lets each business engage with

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Speaker 1: the v charging and pay for their portion of it,

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Speaker 1: or each property manager, it's actually a completely tractable problem.

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Speaker 1: So that's how how we've done it is essentially using

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Speaker 1: businesses to crowdfund a very large network could be charging,

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Speaker 1: and we introduce models to make it really simple. So

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Speaker 1: pass well, just get let us step back a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Where are we in this country in terms of adoption

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Speaker 1: of electric vehicles? I see more and more of them

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Speaker 1: out there. I see more and more charging stations. Actually

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Speaker 1: bloomberg downa Princeton has a charging station. Uh. Just generally,

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Speaker 1: kind of where are we and where do you think

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Speaker 1: we are? Realtive that tip point to really encourage mass adoption. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So The way we look at it is it's uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you talk to consumers that own an

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Speaker 1: electric vehicle, they'll never go back to a gas car.

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Speaker 1: The problem is there are enough makes and models to

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Speaker 1: fit all the lifestyle choices and and affordability requirements of

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Speaker 1: most of most consumers. Half the US market instructs and

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Speaker 1: suvsh So until there's enough choice and trucks and SUVs,

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Speaker 1: you have a limited penetration. With all that said, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's going about as fast as it can go given

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Speaker 1: how fast cars turn over. Uh. So we're super encouraged.

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Speaker 1: You know, you had you know, three thousand cars sold

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Speaker 1: last year in the US that that had to plug.

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Speaker 1: You have more coming this year and uh this and

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Speaker 1: next year is a literally a model you're extravaganza for

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Speaker 1: most of the O E M s that are really dot.

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Speaker 1: What is the cost of filling up a car with electricity? Uh,

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Speaker 1: compare with filling up a car with gas? Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a great question. Um, if you fill up

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Speaker 1: a car, if you charge your car off peak or

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Speaker 1: you use commercial rates at work. By the way, most

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Speaker 1: employers give the power away, It's about the cost of

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Speaker 1: coffee to give someone although we have good coffee. We

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Speaker 1: do have good coffee, so that coffee probably is a

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Speaker 1: little more exposive. But I do have to wonder though,

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Speaker 1: even if somebody is bearing that cost. So if the

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Speaker 1: if the company is bearing that cost, then that means

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Speaker 1: that they're going to be less inclined to build out

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Speaker 1: this network. If the cost is is priviitially expensive, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's actually not compared to other things. So first of all,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about how much it actually costs. It's about

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Speaker 1: four three to five hundred bucks a year, depending on

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Speaker 1: the utility rate that you're charging the car on to

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Speaker 1: basically uh fuel it to the average drive miles a

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Speaker 1: year about their car per car. Now, let's look at

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Speaker 1: what corporations currently spend. They spend about three thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: subsidizing cafeterias. They spend about two per employee. They spent

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Speaker 1: about two thousand per employee on health and wellness Jim's

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Speaker 1: things like that. So when you eat that sandwich or

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Speaker 1: go to that yoga class at work, your employers really

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Speaker 1: subsidizing your uh, you know, your benefit there. Um, they

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Speaker 1: spend a three to fos a year on coffee per employee,

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Speaker 1: and it's that or less to give people both the

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Speaker 1: infrastructure on our subscription services for infrastructure, they can fund

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Speaker 1: that plus the energy, so it's not that much more

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Speaker 1: money than coffee. They've viewed as pretty insignificant. So how

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Speaker 1: many clients are customers do you have with your charging stations?

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Speaker 1: And well, what's kind of the growth you guys are seeing.

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Speaker 1: It's about about eight thousand UH clients and customers all

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Speaker 1: over the United States and Canada now in Europe where

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Speaker 1: we entered Europe about a year and a half two

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Speaker 1: years ago. UM, so it's growing very, very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: To give you a stat that's interesting because I think

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Speaker 1: it's a leading indicator. fIF of the fortune one d

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Speaker 1: are on charge point and obviously we don't have a

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Speaker 1: hundred percent market share, so that shows you what the

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Speaker 1: large employers are setting as trends for the future game.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just wondering. I noticed that Chevron had invested

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Speaker 1: in your company. Are there other oil companies big oil

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Speaker 1: UH that's investing in in this company or is it

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Speaker 1: exclusive to Chevron? It's not. Our investor sets, not that

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Speaker 1: there's no exclusivity in our investor set. We have two

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Speaker 1: O E M s UH BMW and Dame lad. We

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Speaker 1: have two large utility groups in Constellation and and UH

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Speaker 1: A ep UM and and we have now Chevron UH

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Speaker 1: and there's no exclusivity. And if you see what Shell

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Speaker 1: has been doing in our market, not not investing in US,

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Speaker 1: but investing in acquiring companies in the space, and also BP,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of motion with oil and gas. Well,

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Speaker 1: who are your big competitors? UM. It depends on the vertical.

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Speaker 1: So it's hard to answer that question because we're because

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Speaker 1: we've been around so long. We're an eleven year old company,

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Speaker 1: raised a little over half a billion over that eleven

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Speaker 1: and years. We're the only company, regardless of size, that's

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Speaker 1: in every single vertical into continents, right, So we're in home,

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Speaker 1: multi family, workplace, UM, UH, Metroarria, fast Highway, fast fleet,

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Speaker 1: all those different verticals. There's no other company that's doing

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Speaker 1: all that. But in any given vertical, you'll see the

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Speaker 1: Anil acquisition of the motor works in the home business,

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Speaker 1: for example, so they're there. UM. You'll see UH with Shell,

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Speaker 1: the acquisition of green Lots, you'll see UH and and

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Speaker 1: a few other things. You'll see them in lease Co

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Speaker 1: in Europe, you'll see them in a few areas in

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Speaker 1: the United States, So depending on the vertical, you know,

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Speaker 1: we got plenty of competitors. Very good. Pascual Romano, Thank

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Speaker 1: you very much. Pascual as a president and chief executive

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Speaker 1: officer of charge Point based in Cambell, California, but joining

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Speaker 1: us here in New York at the Bloomberg New Energy

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Speaker 1: Finance someone at the Grand Hyatt d uh in New

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Speaker 1: York City. Electric vehicles obviously, you know, people are just

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Speaker 1: wondering where and when is the tipping point for mass adoption,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's probably gonna come from Detroit when

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Speaker 1: we get the you know, a lot more choice. This

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Speaker 1: maybe pay attention to the New York Auto Show coming

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Speaker 1: up in April. Well, energy policymakers in Washington are frantically

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Speaker 1: drying to keep up with changes in consumer behavior as

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Speaker 1: well as new technologies and the energy space. To help

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Speaker 1: us kind of dig through some of those issues, we

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Speaker 1: welcome Sarah Sarah lattis law director and Senior Fellow Energy

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Speaker 1: and National Security Program for the Center for Strategic and

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Speaker 1: International Studies based in DC. But Sarah's joining us here

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Speaker 1: in New York at the Bloomberg New Energy Finance uh,

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Speaker 1: symposium Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. UM. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we read a lot about in the press U from

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Speaker 1: maybe some of the new presidential candidates for about a

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Speaker 1: green New Deal. UM, lots of different flavors out there.

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Speaker 1: What is your sense of what some of the core

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Speaker 1: components of a green New Deal might incorporate. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: the Green New Deal is a big idea. Uh, it's

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Speaker 1: really important that everybody realized there's not a plan, so

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Speaker 1: it's just it's just a proposal. It's a big idea,

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Speaker 1: and fundamentally it's about tying together the issue of decarbonizing

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Speaker 1: the economy for the purposes of managing climate change and

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Speaker 1: UM doing something about inequality and income and those types

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Speaker 1: of economic insecurity issues. There's not like a prescribed policy

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Speaker 1: behind that. But on the green side of the equation,

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Speaker 1: it's broadly about trying to find a way to reduce

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Speaker 1: emissions in the electric power sector, to reduce emissions from

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Speaker 1: the transportation sector, UM, and to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: things to refurbish the kind of infrastructure we have to

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Speaker 1: make it a lot more energy efficient. Are there policy

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Speaker 1: creators drafters in President Trump's administration right now that are

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Speaker 1: working on proposals that could move the United States closer

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Speaker 1: to reducing emissions substantially. Yeah, So I think the important

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Speaker 1: thing is, uh, you know, transitioning from the Green New

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Speaker 1: Deal concept, which is really a debate happening in Congress,

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Speaker 1: to the executive branch, which is where the Trump administration

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Speaker 1: is doing a lot of their pots happening actually now

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Speaker 1: right and where they working on So a lot of

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Speaker 1: what they're focusing on is really um trying to do

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Speaker 1: two things. One, deregulate the US energy sector, which they've

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Speaker 1: made a lot of progress on, so remove the regulation

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Speaker 1: that they see impinging on the production of energy at

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Speaker 1: large across the board. And then also try to sell

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Speaker 1: things like oil and natural gas and coal to other

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Speaker 1: countries around the world. Right, they realize we have a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of energy resources and they're so they're trying

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Speaker 1: to sort of develop those things. Those are not necessarily

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Speaker 1: commensurate with trying to reduce emissions. So the on the

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Speaker 1: natural gas side, to the extent that we're using natural

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Speaker 1: gas in the in the US as opposed to coal,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that they tend to focus

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Speaker 1: on when they talk about the success that the US

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Speaker 1: has had in terms of emissions productions. Critics of the

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Speaker 1: administration would say, you know, a lot of the regulatory efforts,

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Speaker 1: whether it's through the Clean Flower Plan or through the

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Speaker 1: efficiency measures that they're trying to roll back, are actually

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Speaker 1: working against emissions reduction. So it's kind of certainly a

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Speaker 1: mixed record in that regard. Well, certainly I'm seeing you know,

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Speaker 1: as you as you drive around, you see more and

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Speaker 1: more wind farms, You see more and more solar panels

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Speaker 1: on just individuals homes as well as businesses. You see

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Speaker 1: big farms of solar panels. Is that being driven by

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Speaker 1: just the market or is there actually policy behind it,

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Speaker 1: driving it and supporting it. Yeah, I think the really

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Speaker 1: good news stories you look across the United States, there

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Speaker 1: are policies that have driven renewable energy into the market um,

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Speaker 1: but increasingly that's aided just by the performance of those assets, right,

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Speaker 1: So things like when things like rooftop solar um are

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Speaker 1: very cost competitive, utility scale solar cost competitive in a

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Speaker 1: lot of different places. Where you're seeing right now is

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Speaker 1: state level policies that are looking out and saying, hey,

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Speaker 1: we've actually been able to increase renewable kinnetration into our

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Speaker 1: electric power sector. We think it's been a good thing.

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Speaker 1: It's created jobs, it's reduced emissions. There's an industry here

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Speaker 1: for this kind of stuff now, and they're doubling down

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Speaker 1: on some of those policies. UM particular ones. When you

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Speaker 1: talk about deregulation, we focus a lot on oil drilling

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Speaker 1: in the United States. We focus less on our relationship

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Speaker 1: with nuclear power and some of these issues that might

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Speaker 1: affect national security in a way that people might be uh,

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Speaker 1: not me as aware of where are we with that

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Speaker 1: and how much has deregulation kind of changed the game there.

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Speaker 1: So I think in the on the nuclear power side

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Speaker 1: of the equation, the administration is focusing on national security

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Speaker 1: implications of not having a nuclear sector. And so you

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Speaker 1: just saw Secretary Perry go down to Georgia and to

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Speaker 1: um announced additional loan guarantees for the sort of ailing

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Speaker 1: nuclear plants that are that are being built there. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the reasons why you've seen

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Speaker 1: both the administration in the Hills sort of talking about

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Speaker 1: how do we support nuclear power so that it has

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Speaker 1: a future in the United States. Really, it's relatively cost constrained.

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Speaker 1: We don't have a lot of projects that have come

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Speaker 1: online that have been under cost or on time. They've

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Speaker 1: all been over cost and overtime UM. And then you're

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Speaker 1: seeing a lot of state level policy that's trying to

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Speaker 1: advantage even existing nuclear plants that can't compete in the markets.

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Speaker 1: And so I think what's happening is is there's a

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Speaker 1: more active dialogue, certainly UM one that this administration is

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Speaker 1: engaging in on whether or not having a vibrant nuclear

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Speaker 1: industry yields national security benefits for the United States. What

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Speaker 1: about exporting the nuclear energy UH technology to other countries. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a much more controversial topic. I think in the past.

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Speaker 1: You know, whether or not we export nuclear power technologies

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Speaker 1: to other countries really depends on the recipient country and

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Speaker 1: the level of commitment that we have from them that

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Speaker 1: it's going to be safe, that I won't have proliferation risk,

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Speaker 1: all of those sorts of things. I think the US

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Speaker 1: is really concerned because the US is not as competitive

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Speaker 1: internationally as it is anymore, especially relative to people like

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Speaker 1: countries like China and Russia that are offering entirely different

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Speaker 1: kinds of deals for these other countries, and so, UM,

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Speaker 1: the US has really high standards for what it's going

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Speaker 1: to export to other countries, and so it's a it's

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Speaker 1: a fairly controversial issue as to how to get more

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Speaker 1: competitive in that field. Sarah lautus Law, we could spend

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Speaker 1: the next hour speaking with you, Sarah lattus Law, Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for being with US, Director and Senior

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Speaker 1: Fellow for the Energy and National Security Program at c

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Speaker 1: s i S. The Center for Strategic and International Study

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Speaker 1: is based in Washington, d C. But joining us here

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Speaker 1: Lave from the Blueberg New Energy Finance Summit in New

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Speaker 1: York City. But we're here live at the Bloomberg New

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Speaker 1: Energy Finance Summit at the Grand Hide Hotel in New

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Speaker 1: York City. And one of the key issues being debated

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Speaker 1: here is security, a security of the energy grid, security

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Speaker 1: of the US infrastructure. And to help us kind of

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Speaker 1: dig down on some of these issues, we welcome edgard Captivil.

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Speaker 1: He is CEO of Nozomi Networks, Inc. Based in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: but it got it joins us here in New York.

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Speaker 1: And I must note that this morning no Zomy Networks

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Speaker 1: was named a twenty nineteen New Energy Pioneer by Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: New Energy Finance. So congratulations at Gardener thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: So talk to us a little bit about I guess

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Speaker 1: the security and industrial securities. We think about more and

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Speaker 1: more of industry being automated. That raises the risk for

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Speaker 1: cybersecurity issues. What is your sense of the lay of

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Speaker 1: the land right now, Um, Paul, that is absolutely correct.

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Speaker 1: I think automation is increasing and that dramatic pace. Traditional

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Speaker 1: industrial control networks are converging to be more like I

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Speaker 1: T networks and that means more exposed, more vulnerable to

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Speaker 1: to again exposure an attack. And Um, there are several

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Speaker 1: verticals in what we would call critical infrastructure that are

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Speaker 1: affected by this. Not only oil and gas, electric power,

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Speaker 1: of flavors of power, manufacturing, transportation, chemicals, pharmaceuticals. All these

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Speaker 1: articles rely heavily critically on their industrial control networks for

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Speaker 1: revenue and production. And again, as we converge and those

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Speaker 1: networks get more exposed, we try to get more data

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Speaker 1: out of those networks. UM, folks are more vulnerable to attack.

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Speaker 1: So Edward, what actually do you do to prevent these attacks? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: we have an appliance that connects to these industrial control networks.

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Speaker 1: And first the first thing we do is, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can't protect what you can see. So the first

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Speaker 1: thing you want to do is provide a layer of

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Speaker 1: visibility in industrial control network which traditionally have been under

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Speaker 1: instrumented from a bunch of legacy reasons. There were there

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Speaker 1: were um a little bit backwards. When it comes to

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Speaker 1: technology advancement, there's been um there's been a belief that

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Speaker 1: they're isolated. But with this convergence, exposure and modernization is accelerating,

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Speaker 1: and again people want to get more out of those

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Speaker 1: networks from a data analytics point of view, and therefore

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Speaker 1: they're connecting them and that makes in them, makes them

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Speaker 1: more exposed. So after we provide that initial layer of visibility,

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Speaker 1: we learned about the process behavior being operated in network,

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Speaker 1: and we provide anomaly detection will never reality management. All

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Speaker 1: the cybersecurity infrastructure that allows you to monitor and protect

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Speaker 1: industrial control networks as if they wear I T networks.

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Speaker 1: So how about we've seen in the past very high

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Speaker 1: profile news stories about financial institutions being hacked and so

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Speaker 1: on and so forth, how would you characterize the United

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Speaker 1: States industrial plant in terms of cyber security. Cybersecurity in

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Speaker 1: general is not too different from the United States than

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Speaker 1: than other places. I think the reason you have not seen,

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Speaker 1: you know, something like an industrial nine eleven or or

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Speaker 1: a major attack. Is that attacks or or these these

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Speaker 1: events have to align, you know, vulnerabilities with intent and

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Speaker 1: and and an author who is going to do this.

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Speaker 1: So when you look at industries in other regions like

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Speaker 1: the Least, et cetera, for them, industrial cybersecurity attacks are

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Speaker 1: not a theoretical scenario that happens in a fairly significant way.

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Speaker 1: Very few of those get get to the press. In

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Speaker 1: the US, that alignment hasn't happened of intent, uh, combined

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Speaker 1: with the vulnerability aspect, not to a great extent. We

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Speaker 1: have a lot of reconnaissance activity happening from different sources,

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Speaker 1: and that's been in public information. But we we really

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Speaker 1: haven't had a major attack in the U s s

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Speaker 1: as that that has been publicly UM that has been

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Speaker 1: publishedist has been publicized. That's what I'm wondering. What have

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Speaker 1: we not heard about that has happened or at least

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Speaker 1: that has been blocked. I'm wondering how big of an

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Speaker 1: investment are energy companies making in cybersecurity right now? It

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Speaker 1: varies by industry. UM. Some of the industries that are

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Speaker 1: more regulator or have tighter budgets obviously make make less

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Speaker 1: of an investment. We've seen a tremendous amount investment from

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Speaker 1: an oil and gas perspective, even though those those companies

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Speaker 1: don't are not necessarily the fast movers. Electric companies from

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Speaker 1: downstream to upstream to downstream have also made significant investments,

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Speaker 1: both in the US and globally. Chemical plants, mining plants,

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Speaker 1: everybody who needs to ensure the reliability of their production.

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Speaker 1: If you as you talk to your clients, um, what

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Speaker 1: what areas of their industrial operations do they feel is

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Speaker 1: most exposed? Is there a common threat or common exposure area?

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Speaker 1: It really depends again by by vertical um in manufacturing

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Speaker 1: or mining, it's it's primarily you know, kind of one

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Speaker 1: business in oil and gas and electric you have upstream

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Speaker 1: downstream retail. We don't really get too much into the

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Speaker 1: detail because retail side because those are more like I

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Speaker 1: T networks. So I'm just wondering, how does this fit

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Speaker 1: into new energy, wind and solar. Yeah, absolutely, we call

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Speaker 1: that distributed generation like everybody else UM and distribute generation

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Speaker 1: has its own characteristics, but but it's absolutely UM part

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Speaker 1: of part of the game. So so you know, there's

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Speaker 1: industrial controls in a wind turbine, and I was just

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Speaker 1: wondering because you won this this New Energy Pioneer Award

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Speaker 1: for this year. Congratulations, thank you. And I'm just thinking

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Speaker 1: that this security is something that goes throughout every aspect

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Speaker 1: of energy, and I'm just wondering, you know, is there

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Speaker 1: something unique about sort of the new energy complex when

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Speaker 1: it comes to security. Um, new energy is great. From

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Speaker 1: the perspective of industrial cybersecurity and exposure is not too

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Speaker 1: different other than maybe the cost structure has to be

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Speaker 1: different for those remote distributed sites. But other than the

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Speaker 1: cost structure required to to serve those from our perspective,

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Speaker 1: which is uh to provide visibility and protection, it's it's

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Speaker 1: very very similar. Edguard cup Ta Vielle, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for being with us. Edgard Captive Villas, chief executive

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Speaker 1: officer of Zomi Networks, which is based in San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: but he joins us here in New York for the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg New Energy Finance Conference. Well, Bloomberg News is reporting

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Speaker 1: this morning that Theresa May is inclined to put our

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Speaker 1: Brexit deal to a third vote in Parliament on Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: according to people familiar with the matter. Likewise, the EU

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Speaker 1: is also saying that is now prepared to handle the

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Speaker 1: impact of the UK leaving without an agreement, a scenario

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Speaker 1: it describes as quote increasingly likely. So a lot of

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Speaker 1: pieces are moving in the Brexit debate. To get the latest,

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Speaker 1: we welcome John Author's John as a senior editor for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets. He joins us in our Bloomberg Interactive Broker studio. John,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. A lot of moving pieces.

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Speaker 1: As I said, what is the latest coming out of Parliament? Well,

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Speaker 1: we've heard from Theresa May in the last few minutes.

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Speaker 1: She hasn't said that she's not holding a third meaningful

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Speaker 1: vote to use the phrase we will got used to,

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Speaker 1: but she has said I'm sure correctly that she doesn't

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Speaker 1: yet have enough support to win one. Now what is

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Speaker 1: intriguing is, obviously we've also had all this glorious back

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Speaker 1: sit back scenes, backstage political maneuvering going on all weekend. Plainly,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the most euroskeptic, most pro Brexit MP's

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Speaker 1: who've been talking to have suggested that they might be

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Speaker 1: prepared to accept her deal as it stands in exchange

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Speaker 1: for a copper bottomed promised from her to quit, which

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Speaker 1: which is a difficult situation for her to be into

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Speaker 1: present mildly sorry at least, no, no, no no, no worries

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Speaker 1: it all. Does anyone have like a chance of hard

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Speaker 1: brexit ometer? I mean, I feel like that's sort of

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Speaker 1: what we're all trying to get at. It's like, are

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Speaker 1: we incrementally closer further away from a hard brexit that

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Speaker 1: leads to, you know, catastrophe fit. Various people have attempts

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Speaker 1: at hard brexit to meters, some of which have got

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Speaker 1: us highest fifty percent. I mean, you can, you can

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Speaker 1: try to. Unfortunately, I didn't bother to check any of

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Speaker 1: them before I came to the studio. So I the

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Speaker 1: last I saw you had had them spike as high

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Speaker 1: as fifty at one point, most of most versions of

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Speaker 1: where you get from the betting on sense on a

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Speaker 1: distinctly lower than that. Yeah. Well, I guess I guess

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Speaker 1: that the question that also is today move us closer

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Speaker 1: towards the higher than or lower. I think we are

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Speaker 1: probably probably moving towards lower than fifty, but I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: want to swear to it. I suspect um that terraising

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Speaker 1: may may have got to the point where her unpopularity

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Speaker 1: almost begins to work in her favor. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of ardent Brexiteers who are beginning to think, well, let's

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Speaker 1: just take this rather than mess around or take the

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Speaker 1: risk of leaving without a deal. We'll just take this

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Speaker 1: rotten nowforl deal as long as she goes straight away afterwards,

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Speaker 1: and then somebody with a bit more you know, British

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Speaker 1: bulldog spirit or whatever where they want to look at it,

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Speaker 1: can can take over the negotiations from there. Is there

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Speaker 1: sense what's the status of a second referenum? I haven't

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Speaker 1: heard that spoken too much in the less twenty four

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Speaker 1: I think there's a good reason why you haven't heard

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Speaker 1: it spoken very much. It's still very difficult to see

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Speaker 1: how we get to a second referendum, given that the

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Speaker 1: leaders of both parties are very nervous to actively propose

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Speaker 1: such a thing, and that that we still have a

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Speaker 1: situation where the well, there are two key points. One

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Speaker 1: is that you have a critical block of very energized

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Speaker 1: brexities with the Conservative Party and the balance holding Democratic

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Speaker 1: Unionist Party from Northern Ireland are plainly not up for

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Speaker 1: a second referendum. And you also have a large number

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Speaker 1: of labor MPs Labor as a party is largely much

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Speaker 1: more pro European these days than the Conservatives are. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of Labor MPs are in working class neighborhoods

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Speaker 1: where there were huge majorities for leaving and are very

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Speaker 1: very mindful of that and don't want to go to

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Speaker 1: the go back to their local electorates, having having sanctioned

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Speaker 1: the second referendum. I suspect, yes, it's it's being here

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Speaker 1: in the Zeit Guist in London. It's it almost isn't

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Speaker 1: being mentioned at the moment because it's very difficult to

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Speaker 1: get there and so contentious to get there. All right,

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Speaker 1: so you could take off your Brexit hat. Now we're

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Speaker 1: done with that segment of this. Yes, you're happy to

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Speaker 1: take off your Brexit hat put on your weather goal

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Speaker 1: global markets and bond yields hat, which is of course

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Speaker 1: the big conundrum right now, the fact that we're seeing

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Speaker 1: the pool of negative yielding debt surge beyond ten trillion

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Speaker 1: dollars of most in September two seventeen. Big question here,

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Speaker 1: will this backdrop drop push investors back towards risky assets

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Speaker 1: or is this just flashing uh don't go their sign

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Speaker 1: I tends it tends to be somewhat barish about this

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Speaker 1: intense towards the latter, I would say that the single

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Speaker 1: most important indicator we need to look to tell which

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Speaker 1: though that is what the answer is, is earnings earnings

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Speaker 1: per share. Generally speaking, stock earnings do badly when bond

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Speaker 1: yields are falling. Even though a falling bond yields can

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Speaker 1: plainly help some stocks, all other things equal, earnings tended

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Speaker 1: to do badly. They also tend to do badly when

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Speaker 1: we are in a state of yield curve inversion. And

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Speaker 1: you have actually seen a very sharp full in earnings

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Speaker 1: expectations so far this year that the markets, the stock

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Speaker 1: marketers totally ignored. I think that's where the critical point lies.

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Speaker 1: If there was still real earning power, earning capacity in

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Speaker 1: the corporate sector, then you probably could see through what's

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Speaker 1: happening in bonds. You could take advantage of the of

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Speaker 1: the fact that money is cheap. But as it stands,

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Speaker 1: I think we need more to think of the bond

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Speaker 1: marketers giving us a message. It's as good an aggregator

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Speaker 1: as any of of prospects for the for the economy,

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Speaker 1: as you know very well yourself, and I think it

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Speaker 1: probably suggests that that we should be bearish about corporate

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Speaker 1: earnings and therefore probably that we should bearish about risky assets. Hey, John,

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Speaker 1: I hear from somebody in my ear that you were

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Speaker 1: starting a new book club for Bloomberg. Tell us about that. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: imaginatively called author's notes. Can't resist a pun on my

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Speaker 1: surname sometimes. So the idea is Oprah style. This is

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Speaker 1: this is a big attempt to buy Bloomberg. Were we

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Speaker 1: recognize that a lot of our very busy readers wish

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Speaker 1: they wish they read far more. And this is like

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Speaker 1: any other book club and attempt to try to use

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Speaker 1: a bit of peer pressure to actually to actually get

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Speaker 1: people to to read the number of people who do

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Speaker 1: really start the honestly wanting to read a book a month,

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Speaker 1: it's quite serious. So the idea is that Bloomberg is

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Speaker 1: designating me initially to to try to be the the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg business book answer to Oprah and nominates a book free.

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Speaker 1: There's not many other ways I'm much like Oprah. So

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Speaker 1: John authors, hold on a second, you are the Oprah

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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg. That is what we're going to introduce you

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Speaker 1: as from here on out. John Authors the Oprah of Bloomberg,

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Speaker 1: also known as the Senior editor for Bloomberg. Marcus joining

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Speaker 1: us from a Bloomberg Atta Active Broker Studios. We have

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Speaker 1: been broadcasting live from the Bloomberg New Energy Finance Summit.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg pen L podcast. You

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00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcast or

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00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 1: whatever podcast platform you prefer. Paul Sweeney, I'm on Twitter

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00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,119
Speaker 1: at pt Sweeney. I'm Lisa A. Bram Woods. I'm on

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00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: Twitter at Lisa A. Bram wits one before the podcast,

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00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: you can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio