Speaker 1: I think John Alan McDorman as I've gotten older sounds stronger,
Speaker 1: because in my mind when I think of Jake, maybe
Speaker 1: it's because it has no roots in my actual name anywhere.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, that's not a real name. I was
Speaker 1: talking to a co star at one point and I
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know Jake McDorman. This is like
Speaker 1: not too long ago either, like four years ago. So
Speaker 1: I'm deep into the Jake. This is like a conversation
Speaker 1: I had, you know, twenty years ago. But she was like, no,
Speaker 1: Jake mcdormand's great, that's good. I was like, she's like,
Speaker 1: what's your what's your legal name? I was like John
Speaker 1: Allen McDorman and she was like, oh, I take it back,
Speaker 1: that's way better. She was like, Jake McDorman wins, like
Speaker 1: maybe a people's choice. John Allen McDorman wins Academy. I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm fucking I know Jake. John Allen McDormand.
Speaker 1: The fourth rode into Hollywood on a big white horse.
Speaker 1: He said, I'm an actor. I'm here to stay. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna be a big star someday.
Speaker 2: Hi everybody, and welcome back to I would call an
Speaker 2: entrancing and poetic episode of Off the Beat. Just like
Speaker 2: every week, it's me your host, Brian Baumgartner. Now, how
Speaker 2: can I possibly follow a self introduction like that? Well
Speaker 2: with a poem of my own of course, So let's
Speaker 2: see poem introduction beginning now. Jake McDorman a versatile star
Speaker 2: from drama to comedy. He's traveled so far. He came
Speaker 2: to la as just a teen to see his face
Speaker 2: on the big screen. He was first cast in Quintuplets
Speaker 2: and later in Greek landing Gig after Gig on an
Speaker 2: epic streak. He's in Murphy Around Dope, Sick and if
Speaker 2: that wasn't enough, Limitless, shameless and the right stuff, American Sniper,
Speaker 2: what we do in the Shadows. Jake captivates wherever he goes.
Speaker 2: Now you can watch him in Missus Davis and Class
Speaker 2: of Nine and see for yourself his work is divine.
Speaker 2: You know that this episode won't be a bore man
Speaker 2: with my awesome guest, the great Jake McDorman, Hold your
Speaker 2: applause till the end. Here he is Jake McDorman. Bubble
Speaker 2: and Squeak, I love it, Bubble and Squeakna, Bubble and Squeak,
Speaker 2: I could get every moleft over from the ninety before.
Speaker 2: What's up, Jake, Brian, It's so good to meet you.
Speaker 2: It's very nice to meet you. How's it going.
Speaker 1: It's going pretty well, man, going pretty well? Can you
Speaker 1: hear me? Okay, I'm so embarrassed. I was just doing
Speaker 1: a tech setup. I've gotten no better at this in
Speaker 1: the three years we've been doing. I'm a shit millennial.
Speaker 2: Listen. I mean the fact that I can manage it.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're fine. Let's just let's put it that way.
Speaker 1: I'll go with that.
Speaker 2: I'm seeing you all over my TV left and right.
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about that in a minute, some
Speaker 2: of my favorite shows of last year. But you grew
Speaker 2: up in Dallas? Is that right?
Speaker 1: I did? Yeah? Yeah? Did I see that you're from?
Speaker 1: Are you from Georgia?
Speaker 2: I am from Georgia. But hail to the Red and
Speaker 2: the Blue, the Mustangs of SMU. I spent my formative
Speaker 2: years there.
Speaker 1: Dude, my dad went there. Really yeah, I think I
Speaker 1: have that I but yeah, yeah, I definitely would go.
Speaker 1: This was like a big deal for I have other
Speaker 1: people that were born in like eighty five, eighty six
Speaker 1: whose dads when we were little, would take us to
Speaker 1: play racquetball. I think it was just like a big
Speaker 1: deal for dads born in the fifties that like racquetball
Speaker 1: in the eighties and their thirties probably like you know,
Speaker 1: coked up and drunk on whiskey, was throwing a battle
Speaker 1: around a closed room. But like I'd go to SMU
Speaker 1: with my dad to play racquetball forever. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: my acci.
Speaker 2: Dad's where I started playing racquetball. Oh shit, man. In college. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we In fact, I think I took like racquetball one
Speaker 2: oh one. And that's not a that's not a course.
Speaker 2: That's not a course.
Speaker 1: When wait, when were you at SMU? Do you know
Speaker 1: when you were there playing racquetball?
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you would have been young ish. I was
Speaker 2: their early nineties.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm telling you. I think we were we probably,
Speaker 1: I mean I was too young to be playing racketball.
Speaker 1: I think my dad was not great at racketball, and
Speaker 1: it gave him a huge vote of self confidence to
Speaker 1: just eviscerate a ten year old ketball.
Speaker 2: I mean I also, as you know then, the basketball
Speaker 2: courts were right out there. Yeah, so, I mean I
Speaker 2: was trying to hustle people on the basketball courts as
Speaker 2: much as possible, but then eventually it got shoved into
Speaker 2: one of those rooms, the racquetball rooms. But yes, I
Speaker 2: had a great, great time in Dallas, and it sounds
Speaker 2: like you did too. You started well, first off, when
Speaker 2: did you start getting interested in acting or performing?
Speaker 1: You know, I was really reluctant. It started in I'm
Speaker 1: no longer spiritual or really religious or religious, but it
Speaker 1: started in the church I went to, which if you
Speaker 1: went to SMU and you spent some time, you know
Speaker 1: in Dallas, you know that they can mega church like, yeah,
Speaker 1: none other. You know, everything's bigger in Texas, Stephen Jesus.
Speaker 1: So like I went to one of those huge, huge
Speaker 1: megachurches that had these like children's choirs that would put
Speaker 1: on you know, bi annual big musicals and stuff. And
Speaker 1: my mom was really, i think, just based on you
Speaker 1: know the kind of kid I was, which was you know,
Speaker 1: imaginative and running around and playing with action figures, probably
Speaker 1: too old, thought that I'd really like it. And I
Speaker 1: reluctantly kind of joined that, and then in doing that,
Speaker 1: really got bit by it and I thought it was fun.
Speaker 1: So like technically I started in a version of a theater.
Speaker 1: But like you know, for for instance, Betty Gilpin on
Speaker 1: Missus Davis, she's like a proper theater actor. So like
Speaker 1: anytime I say like, oh, yeah, I got my start
Speaker 1: in theater, because technically I was on a big stage
Speaker 1: in front of a thousand people, right, I should be like, oh,
Speaker 1: what did you put up? Like what was the play?
Speaker 3: And I was like, it's called the Amazing Scripture of
Speaker 3: Memory Maze, small production. So like definitely can't you know,
Speaker 3: sit toe to toe with anyone who actually carved their
Speaker 3: teeth on theater. But that was the first I think,
Speaker 3: that feeling of kind of overcoming the nerves of something
Speaker 3: like that, right, and then getting out, you know, with
Speaker 3: a plan with your You had this plan that you'd
Speaker 3: rehearsed with your cast, and you go execute it.
Speaker 1: And in that moment of being in front of all
Speaker 1: those people under the pressure, all you have is each other,
Speaker 1: and the kind of unique bond that creates between all
Speaker 1: of you just became really intoxicating. And I just I
Speaker 1: just knew pretty quickly I wanted to do that. I
Speaker 1: wanted to chase that feeling kind of forever. And I
Speaker 1: don't even think I knew at the time that that's like,
Speaker 1: because I also love TV and movies, Like I grew
Speaker 1: up watching movies and TV. I didn't quite equate those
Speaker 1: two as being the same thing. Okay, that was in
Speaker 1: a box over there, and this was this weird thing
Speaker 1: I was doing over here, and it took a while
Speaker 1: for those to like overlap, and I'm right, yeah.
Speaker 2: But I mean, look, let's be honest. It doesn't matter
Speaker 2: how quote unquote serious the theater that you're doing. I mean,
Speaker 2: having experiences on stage in front of people, that's kind
Speaker 2: of step one. I mean yeah, I mean I think.
Speaker 1: It should be. I think you're lucky it is right
Speaker 1: like that. I feel really grateful it came in that order,
Speaker 1: Like I not, there's there's probably a million different ways
Speaker 1: to crack it. But like I've thought about this a
Speaker 1: lot that, like, I'm glad I got that feeling first
Speaker 1: before I was like ooh, I want to be you
Speaker 1: know Harrison Ford, Like how do I reverse engineer that?
Speaker 1: From a place of like vanity gushing, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: like he's so cool, I want to be that cool.
Speaker 1: It really came from a place of just that feeling
Speaker 1: and the like connection that you have when you do
Speaker 1: theater was like terrifying and exciting, and then bonus, it's
Speaker 1: also you know the root of all these performances you've
Speaker 1: been enjoying forever.
Speaker 2: Right, so you have this feeling that you want to chase.
Speaker 2: You start studying at the acting studio and is it
Speaker 2: Nancy Charitier?
Speaker 1: She is one of I had two like acting gurus.
Speaker 1: Excuse me. I had two like acting gurus in Dallas
Speaker 1: that like together were like the yin and yang of
Speaker 1: me actually believing maybe I could make a go of it.
Speaker 1: So Nancy was second, but very amazed that you know
Speaker 1: by name. And then uh, the there's the Dallas Young
Speaker 1: Actors Studios Linda Sito and then uh, I think the
Speaker 1: class was called React with Nancy Chardier. And the first
Speaker 1: one my dad. I don't know if you do. You
Speaker 1: remember little Miss Sunshine, Greg Kinnear's character and little Miss Sunshine.
Speaker 1: He'd go around and do these kind of ten steps
Speaker 1: to success. My dad's gonna kill me if you ever
Speaker 1: listens to this. Thank god. He's a complete fucking ludite
Speaker 1: and has no idea how to listen to this podcast.
Speaker 1: I love you, dad, but uh, you know.
Speaker 2: To your phone click podcast podcast.
Speaker 1: Brian, he's not gonna hear these instructions.
Speaker 2: You can't find it.
Speaker 1: But anyway, he would give this seminar every Monday night
Speaker 1: the church, and these people who were in career transition,
Speaker 1: you know, leading one job or seeking another job, or
Speaker 1: had been you know, let go from their own job
Speaker 1: would come and listen to seminar. And an agent from
Speaker 1: a Dallas agency like came up and approached him because
Speaker 1: about his voice. You're like, you're interested in voiceover work,
Speaker 1: and God bless him. He was like, no, not really,
Speaker 1: but my son is an actor. So got me a
Speaker 1: meeting like that way with a local agent. And then
Speaker 1: she was like, sure, we'll take a meeting with him.
Speaker 1: We'll see what he's all about. We'll have him read
Speaker 1: a scene. I must have been like twelve years old
Speaker 1: and had just dyed my hair like hydrogen peroxide eminem
Speaker 1: yellow like the day before, and like walked in there
Speaker 1: with like orange pants from Abercrombie. It's just the worst,
Speaker 1: kind of just the worst. I can't even imagine what
Speaker 1: they thought. And they were like, yeah, no, you should
Speaker 1: go to class. You should definitely go to class. So
Speaker 1: they sent me to those two places and I went
Speaker 1: to the first one for a long time, and it
Speaker 1: really was the first time I learned anything about just
Speaker 1: how to do it. It also put me in a
Speaker 1: kind of tribe of people that also wanted to do this.
Speaker 1: That was a huge part of it. You know, you
Speaker 1: moved to LA and you forget you know, how weird
Speaker 1: of idea this is. In some parts of the country
Speaker 1: or certainly some parts of the world. You know, right La,
Speaker 1: everybody is there's a homogeny to like wanting to do
Speaker 1: something in the entertainment industry, and there it was very
Speaker 1: rare to meet someone who else who someone else who
Speaker 1: wanted to do this. So even putting me in a
Speaker 1: class full of people who like nerd it out about
Speaker 1: the same shit that I did, and like, you know,
Speaker 1: loved the same kind of movies and TV that I did,
Speaker 1: was great. And so yeah, that that class and then
Speaker 1: and then I met Nancy, and Nancy was the people
Speaker 1: in Nancy's class were doing the La thing, were like
Speaker 1: breaking their families in half and sending them to the
Speaker 1: oak Woods, which sounds insane, but at the time it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I'm breaking my family. Definitely, what's next?
Speaker 1: You guys are to hold on tight we're going to
Speaker 1: the oak Woods. So yeah, that was like the beginning
Speaker 1: of starting to actually have conversations about like, okay, we're
Speaker 1: doing this in Dallas. It wasn't an overnight decision. There's
Speaker 1: now like five years of moving in this direction and
Speaker 1: getting representation locally and then meeting other parents who have
Speaker 1: like kind of done the pilot season thing, which I
Speaker 1: don't even know if that's a thing anymore, but it
Speaker 1: certainly was, you know, when you and I were coming up,
Speaker 1: and so eventually I wore them down to let me
Speaker 1: try it for like a few months.
Speaker 2: Now. For those of you who don't know the oak Woods,
Speaker 2: I don't know if we've talked about this, this is
Speaker 2: a legendary place.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, it needs to be an HBO series.
Speaker 2: It really does. The oak Woods is an apartment complex
Speaker 2: kind of directly adjacent to both Universal and Warner Brothers
Speaker 2: kind in this up in the hill, which sounds very romantic,
Speaker 2: but it's not. At that time at least, it was
Speaker 2: like a commune for people who would come out for
Speaker 2: pilot season for as you said, like a month, two months,
Speaker 2: three months, and like commune together, like yeah together, yeah,
Speaker 2: do auditions, right.
Speaker 1: Do auditions for like three months to give people an
Speaker 1: idea of the size of this compound. There was a
Speaker 1: North Clubhouse, a South Clubhouse, three entrances from different streets
Speaker 1: and buildings, three stories for every letter of the alphabet.
Speaker 1: So it's massive. You don't need to leave. In fact,
Speaker 1: there was people who had been there since Oakwood opened.
Speaker 1: I remember Lou had some guy named Lou had his
Speaker 1: ninetieth birthday at South Clubhouse, right, So it's like old
Speaker 1: Hollywood kind of, you know, a group of people that
Speaker 1: lived there and like never left. They went to the
Speaker 1: salon there, and they would like go to the pool
Speaker 1: and all this stuff. There was a convenience store that
Speaker 1: we used to get beer and cigarettes from when we
Speaker 1: were way too young. Like I mean, it was it
Speaker 1: was overrun with musicians touring, elderly people that had been
Speaker 1: there since the sixties, child actors and stage moms and securities.
Speaker 2: It's like the villages, yes, for it's like the villages
Speaker 2: for young people who are trying to be musicians and
Speaker 2: actors really and their families.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the perfect that is the perfect analogy. It
Speaker 1: is exactly the villages. It's a democratic.
Speaker 2: Probably mostly Yeah, were you and So how old were
Speaker 2: you when you finally went out.
Speaker 1: To the So we couldn't stay in the oak Woods
Speaker 1: because those were fancy, but my girlfriend at the time
Speaker 1: lived there, and I spent all my time there. I
Speaker 1: mean it was like even even if you you know,
Speaker 1: didn't live there and you were an actor that you know,
Speaker 1: was out there auditioning for past season, you just have
Speaker 1: your mom drop you off there for like the day
Speaker 1: and you'd run around with nothing to do with a
Speaker 1: bunch of actor kids. That was when I was sixteen,
Speaker 1: So twenty and three, twenty years ago. Wow, this is
Speaker 1: twenty years as of this spring. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well you know what's crazy is I actually landed in
Speaker 2: La the exact time you did two three.
Speaker 1: So you must have seen me at the raquetball courts.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna follow Zach. I'm gonna creepy way, not in
Speaker 1: a creepy way.
Speaker 2: Well, let's hold not. Yeah, I'm going to travel around
Speaker 2: the country and eventually, when when, when Jake is on
Speaker 2: the move, that I am too.
Speaker 1: This is a long play. I'm proud of you here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now we're finally meeting twenty years later. It's been
Speaker 2: going on forty years. Not quite Uh, your name. By
Speaker 2: the way, I have to mention your name is John.
Speaker 2: I heard a story about your name becoming Jake. Tell it.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so curious. It's this is the story you've heard?
Speaker 1: Uh So, my name is John Alan McDormand the force.
Speaker 1: My dad. This is the third. I'm his only son.
Speaker 1: He had two daughters before I was born and a
Speaker 1: third after I was born. And I think just the
Speaker 1: weight of continuing the progeny made him name me on
Speaker 1: paper John the Fourth. But he didn't want to name
Speaker 1: me John, so uh he there was I've heard it.
Speaker 1: I've actually heard a couple of versions of this between
Speaker 1: my parents, depending on how drunk they are. The story
Speaker 1: that's kind of where it comes from, is that, like
Speaker 1: I guess in the eighties, saying you got that right,
Speaker 1: Jake was a saying and he was like, and you know,
Speaker 1: Jake from Chinatown. So when I cry as a baby,
Speaker 1: he'd tell me, relax, Jake, it's just Chinatown. When I'm
Speaker 1: butchering Jacknickilson's.
Speaker 2: Line, No, that was pretty close story.
Speaker 1: I heard.
Speaker 2: Relaxed, Jake, it's Chinatown.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And then it stuck and now I'm an actor
Speaker 1: and everyone thinks it's a stage name. It just has.
Speaker 1: It's been a pain in the ass at airports and
Speaker 1: security gates, at Warner Brothers and anywhere else and explaining
Speaker 1: it to people where I'm like, oh, well, my real
Speaker 1: name is John, that's what's on my license, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: so you're you go by Jake as a stage name, Like, no,
Speaker 1: my dad just thought he'd fuck with me eternally by
Speaker 1: me going as Jake my whole life. I think, So,
Speaker 1: you've got a great name, Brian Baumgardner, that's a that's
Speaker 1: a that's a cool name. Oh it sounds cool, man.
Speaker 1: It could be like, yeah, I'm jealous. I think John
Speaker 1: Alan McDorman, as i've gotten older, sounds stronger because in
Speaker 1: my mind when I think of Jake, maybe it's because
Speaker 1: it has no roots and my actual name anywhere, But
Speaker 1: I'm like, that's not a real name. I was talking
Speaker 1: to a co star at one point and I was like,
Speaker 1: I don't know Jake McDorman. This is like not too
Speaker 1: long ago either, like four years ago. So I'm deep
Speaker 1: into the Jake. This isn't like a conversation I had,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty years ago. But she was like, no,
Speaker 1: Jake mcdormand's great, that's good. I was like, she's like,
Speaker 1: what's your what's your legal name? I was like John
Speaker 1: Allan McDorman and she was like, oh, I take it back,
Speaker 1: that's way better. She was like, Jake Dorman wins like
Speaker 1: maybe a people's choice. John Allen McDorman wins a cab.
Speaker 1: I was like, I fucking I know. So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you one of your first roles, you get
Speaker 2: cast on Run of the House. Now was this during
Speaker 2: a time you were just visiting this was my first
Speaker 2: pilot season, your first pilot season, you get cast?
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was had the fear of God that I would
Speaker 1: not get something, and you know, have to kind of
Speaker 1: face all the decisions that I had made about like
Speaker 1: pulling myself out of school, because you know, the different
Speaker 1: the levels of commitment that go into a pilot season
Speaker 1: when you're in the middle of like public school system.
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't some savant. I wasn't some Ronan pharaoh
Speaker 1: that graduated early like and could go run off to you,
Speaker 1: you know, a good college. At some point it was
Speaker 1: very much like, all right, you're just ending your education,
Speaker 1: and like it was there was there was some you know,
Speaker 1: I had gotten like a homeschool program that a lot
Speaker 1: of child actors were going to a lot of headshots
Speaker 1: on that wall. And there was even another like accredited
Speaker 1: diploma that you could test out of school so that
Speaker 1: a studio could hire you without having to hire an
Speaker 1: onset tutor. But like that that was the goal marketability,
Speaker 1: not education. It was like, get get this out of
Speaker 1: the way, you want to be hireable, right. So I
Speaker 1: had made those decisions quick because like before we even
Speaker 1: hit the ground running for a first pilot season, like
Speaker 1: did the get rid of the education and be like,
Speaker 1: you know, completely no strings attached. So I was really really,
Speaker 1: really really hyper aware that if this didn't work out,
Speaker 1: at least work out enough to send the signal that
Speaker 1: we should try it, you know, continue, that I was
Speaker 1: going to have to like go back to school with
Speaker 1: all my friends with my head held low and rejoin
Speaker 1: a grade beneath them now, right, So yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I tested for a handful that first year. Didn't get
Speaker 1: any of the things I tested for, which was like
Speaker 1: really devastating at the time. I didn't I didn't have
Speaker 1: any gauge for how good or well I was doing
Speaker 1: other than like get something or you're going home, So
Speaker 1: callbacks or you know, any of the other Bellweathers that like,
Speaker 1: you know, oh it's going well, just didn't compute. I
Speaker 1: didn't know what to you know, invest that kind of
Speaker 1: hope in. So I got this this co star on pilot.
Speaker 1: This is back when CW was actually WB with the
Speaker 1: Singing Frog yep, and it went for a season. They
Speaker 1: brought me back for one episode after the pilot. But
Speaker 1: that was enough. That was enough for my agents that
Speaker 1: had like kind of they were doing like a dry
Speaker 1: run with me, be like, well, sign you proper sing
Speaker 1: with my manager at the time, and the signals send
Speaker 1: the signal to my folks that like I can I
Speaker 1: can maybe do this. It was great.
Speaker 2: It was a sitcom yeah, live audience fun. Ye, your
Speaker 2: first main role you get cast on Quintuplets. Do you
Speaker 2: feel like at that point your life is transitioning into
Speaker 2: a totally new direction, Like do you feel the weight
Speaker 2: of it? Is it a big deal for you?
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, oh yeah definitely. That was also I was
Speaker 1: able to pay my parents back with that, and I
Speaker 1: think that was when, you know, because that would have
Speaker 1: required I was seventeen when I did Quintuplets and it
Speaker 1: was going to go for a full season. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know when we got our back nine again for
Speaker 1: people listening, you know, the pilot to first Order to
Speaker 1: back nine might be weird now, but it shows back
Speaker 1: then did like twenty two full episode seasons. And once
Speaker 1: it was clear that that was going to happen, you know,
Speaker 1: my family had to stop because it's me and my
Speaker 1: mom out here and my dad and my sister in Texas,
Speaker 1: and that split just was untenable. So I got emancipated
Speaker 1: and I was turning turning eighteen soon just to legally
Speaker 1: let my mom go back and I could start living
Speaker 1: on my own in seventeen. So yes, I mean that
Speaker 1: not only you know, bolstered confidence being having the set
Speaker 1: experience of being like a series regular and having a
Speaker 1: place to show up too, that's going to pay you
Speaker 1: and have you learn as much as something like that,
Speaker 1: but also just living on my own for the first time.
Speaker 2: How was How was that? Was that was that difficult?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Looking back, were you able to manage it? Okay?
Speaker 1: Look looking at the time, Yeah, I mean I really
Speaker 1: And again there was there was there's a lot of
Speaker 1: structure baked in with a with a show yes, so, like,
Speaker 1: you know, having a place to report to, it would
Speaker 1: be a little different. I think if I had, you know,
Speaker 1: just moved out there, got an apartment at eighteen, and
Speaker 1: was trying to get an agent, because that's really like
Speaker 1: then you'd have to find structure in a job and
Speaker 1: find something part time that would allow you auditions. So
Speaker 1: I got to kind of circumvent that mess and have
Speaker 1: somewhere to report to. It is mind blowing. I mean,
Speaker 1: just having the like, I think the there's a level
Speaker 1: of tell me what you think about this, there's a
Speaker 1: level of like hubris that has to come. Like I'm
Speaker 1: almost grateful that I started as a teenager when I
Speaker 1: was stupid enough to think that this was a good idea,
Speaker 1: you know. Like so like in hindsight, I'm kind of
Speaker 1: mind blown because now I'm just so much more pragmatic
Speaker 1: about things that something that kind of outrageous would I
Speaker 1: don't know, I'd just be hyper aware of how much
Speaker 1: I'd be putting everyone out in the likelihood and this
Speaker 1: and that. So like at the time, I was so
Speaker 1: I was laser focused on this and moving this forward.
Speaker 1: But in retrospect, it just feels like bizarre.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a similar story as what I mean,
Speaker 2: not similar at all. But by the time I got
Speaker 2: to La and I got the Office, and even though
Speaker 2: The Office was almost canceled like fourteen times, there was
Speaker 2: sort of this weird like, oh no, this is this
Speaker 2: is going to go like everything's going to be good,
Speaker 2: right and I'm going to be fired. It's all going
Speaker 2: to be like I bought a house after like three episodes,
Speaker 2: which which was ridiculous. No, I mean, like totally ridiculous,
Speaker 2: which is like, you know, in retrospect, it's like, what
Speaker 2: this is something I would vehemently argue anyone who told
Speaker 2: me that was the choice that they were going to make.
Speaker 2: When when was that?
Speaker 1: So you came out two thousand and three? When was
Speaker 1: the pilot of The Office.
Speaker 2: Two thousand and four? January, oh, February January, February of
Speaker 2: two thousand and four, and then yeah, like really yeah.
Speaker 2: Then we weren't on the air until spring of two.
Speaker 2: We were mid season of two thousand and five, so
Speaker 2: there was a long time in there. But I bought
Speaker 2: a house before the show had aired.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's yeah, well done. No, it's really stupid.
Speaker 2: I mean, again, in retrospec it all sort of worked out,
Speaker 2: I guess, but of course, but yeah, no, I kind
Speaker 2: of know what you And I'm really only telling that
Speaker 2: story because I kind of get what you're saying. Like
Speaker 2: looking back, like you were laser focused. I was certainly
Speaker 2: laser focused and thought, Okay, well this is gonna this
Speaker 2: is gonna all be fine. Yeah, but yeah, that's it's
Speaker 2: that's fast.
Speaker 1: You kind of have to I mean, you kind of.
Speaker 1: I mean even even I mean, there's still an element
Speaker 1: of that that's you know, hasn't shaken. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it's twenty years later. You have more experience and
Speaker 1: you've seen you know, peaks and valleys and all the
Speaker 1: stuff that everybody talks about. But I mean there's still
Speaker 1: has to be kind of an irrational burning for it, right,
Speaker 1: like it still lives and it doesn't quite live irrational.
Speaker 2: No, that's true. And you know I was for my
Speaker 2: age way more responsible when I was seventeen now really
Speaker 2: just like just like for my A, I was mature
Speaker 2: and blah blah blah. And I don't say that like bragging.
Speaker 2: I was boring in a way. But I can't sitting
Speaker 2: here now, I can't imagine living on my own in
Speaker 2: Los Angeles seventeen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a lot of you know, I'll say too,
Speaker 1: because like I had met my it was my first
Speaker 1: my first girlfriend lived out here, and I met her
Speaker 1: in Nancy Chardier's class, So we met in Dallas, and
Speaker 1: she was actually one of the one of the students
Speaker 1: who was an example of someone that would go back
Speaker 1: and forth from pilot season and I would hear she
Speaker 1: would like come back from La and regaleus with stories
Speaker 1: and it sounded like such a magical place. Obviously La
Speaker 1: is very dangerous and not magical, but like the in
Speaker 1: these kind of like you know, rose colored glasses in
Speaker 1: an acting class, focusing on that specific element of like, wow,
Speaker 1: here's somebody that I put up scenes with that just
Speaker 1: went and did a pilot with Chevy Chase, you know,
Speaker 1: like it just sounded like too good to be true.
Speaker 1: And Oakwood. Honestly, this is something else I look back
Speaker 1: on retrospect, but at the time Oakwood sounded like Sherwood forest,
Speaker 1: like it was incredible, sound like all the stuff they'd
Speaker 1: get into and just all this, Like, you know, if
Speaker 1: I felt like I had found the tribe in a
Speaker 1: pocket of Dallas that had a few acting classes right
Speaker 1: Oakwood and Los Angeles felt like the mecca, Like it
Speaker 1: just felt like right And obviously it's a sixteen year
Speaker 1: old's idealized version of this place. Sure, but then to
Speaker 1: right on the heels of idealizing it, get to be
Speaker 1: of it and among it was. I think it helped
Speaker 1: that I had a built in again, kind of a
Speaker 1: built in community through her and her circle of friends.
Speaker 1: She'd been doing this since even younger. I mean to
Speaker 1: give you an idea, sixteen in retrospect is so young
Speaker 1: that it blows my mind that I was even allowed
Speaker 1: to do that. But I remember the feeling when I
Speaker 1: got here at sixteen, looking around at all the other
Speaker 1: kids that had been doing it since they were eight,
Speaker 1: and being like fuck too old. Like I had that
Speaker 1: thought where I was like, I can't believe I waited
Speaker 1: till I'm an old man. Right sixteen, Now I can
Speaker 1: drive like it's just you were. I was, so you know,
Speaker 1: just enmeshed in that kind of you know, world and
Speaker 1: culture socially that I think it was part of what
Speaker 1: made my parents be like, oh, okay, he's not that
Speaker 1: the child actor circle of Los Angeles is like, oh
Speaker 1: he'll be fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but.
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard Yeah, exactly, exactly, name me what. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: they're depositing money in my cougan.
Speaker 2: In two thousand and seven, you're now fully la and
Speaker 2: you get your first multi year, multiple season run of
Speaker 2: a little show called.
Speaker 1: Greek Brian My only, my one and only.
Speaker 4: You're oh, that's the only?
Speaker 2: Well yes, yes, okay, so so far sure, fine, maybe technically,
Speaker 2: but I mean we'll you know, we'll talk about that
Speaker 2: in a minute. But wow, okay, so that's that's your
Speaker 2: one and only. Well, first off, how did you get cast?
Speaker 2: You audition? This was yeah, Greek, I'm talking about Greek. Yes, Greek.
Speaker 1: Greek is was on ABC Family Now I think it's
Speaker 1: free form, And yes, it was in between Quintuplets and Greek.
Speaker 1: I had gone to Australia to shoot a movie called Aquamarine, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, is having a very bizarre to me,
Speaker 1: not bizarre. I understand why it's happening. I guess it's
Speaker 1: a kids movie and they've grown up now, but it's
Speaker 1: having a little bit of like a weird resurgence. Mm hmm,
Speaker 1: Like I get sent tiktoks a lot that are acha
Speaker 1: marine centered. So did that in between, and then came
Speaker 1: back to La and got on Greek And yeah, it
Speaker 1: was an audition, but every character on that show, we
Speaker 1: all auditioned for different parts of me played without exception,
Speaker 1: every single one. So it was a little bit of
Speaker 1: a mixed match and we got to know each other
Speaker 1: through that process. I think.
Speaker 2: No, I know.
Speaker 1: Originally I had gone like all the way to the mat,
Speaker 1: like all the way to student a network test for
Speaker 1: the role of Cappy, which was like the complete inversion
Speaker 1: of the character I got. He's like the fun John
Speaker 1: Belushi animal house like you know, fraternity guy, right, and
Speaker 1: I'm the more clean cut, preppy fraternity president. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: they mixed this around, and I was really interested in
Speaker 1: playing that part. So when they came back and were like,
Speaker 1: how would you like to play the opposite of that part?
Speaker 1: It was strange, it was but they kind of they
Speaker 1: didn't have to test for it, so it was like,
Speaker 1: in a weird way, it's not technically an offer, like
Speaker 1: I did audition for another role, but but it was
Speaker 1: the first time that they were like, you've already gone
Speaker 1: through the steps. If you're interested, we'd like you to
Speaker 1: play this role. Read it and see what you think
Speaker 1: of that? And I was like, yeah, maybe that could
Speaker 1: be fun. So did that here in LA for four years?
Speaker 1: I think? And just I mean, you know, you know
Speaker 1: how quickly you become a family with a cast that
Speaker 1: you get to do more than one season of let
Speaker 1: alone four because these are all still like my best
Speaker 1: friends from that show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it also I mean just clearly young people
Speaker 2: all sort of in as you have referred to in
Speaker 2: this tribe. This everyone's sort of there in their own place.
Speaker 2: No one hugely broken out at that point, right, And yeah,
Speaker 2: it seems like totally that you would you would form
Speaker 2: this family that you're referring to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's the only people that
Speaker 1: know the I mean, you spend fourteen hours a day
Speaker 1: with these people, like a weird amount of time that
Speaker 1: you wouldn't even spend with your you don't even usually
Speaker 1: get to because of this job, spend with your partner. Right,
Speaker 1: So they've become such a constant in your life. And
Speaker 1: then you're navigating press, which is always weird. And then
Speaker 1: to have like a circle of eight people to go
Speaker 1: through that process with brings you closer or not. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know that we're really lucky that we had like
Speaker 1: a good group of personalities, because that doesn't always happen.
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, it was great, and I learned so
Speaker 1: much just about being on the set. Those two classes
Speaker 1: I was talking about earlier did a really good job
Speaker 1: of preparing me. And they had like studio sets built,
Speaker 1: like you learned how to do a multi cam sitcom.
Speaker 1: They had like a you know, a film summer camp
Speaker 1: where you're essentially working half the time as cast, half
Speaker 1: the time's crew. So to their credit, like I was
Speaker 1: maybe more used to the feeling of being on a
Speaker 1: single camp than somebody who's just completely fresh off the boat,
Speaker 1: but getting four years of you know, the hours and
Speaker 1: watching a character develop, trying things that fucking don't work,
Speaker 1: you know. And that's like one of the things I'm
Speaker 1: most grateful for about it is the Greek has its
Speaker 1: like pocketive fan It as like a cult, you know,
Speaker 1: following of people who watched it when they were either
Speaker 1: you know, in college or about to go to college.
Speaker 1: But it was never like a breakout hit like a
Speaker 1: Gossip Girl or something else at that time. And I'm
Speaker 1: kind of just super grateful it wasn't, because like I learned,
Speaker 1: like I knew how to act, but then there's so
Speaker 1: many things that you just get from trying stuff and
Speaker 1: watching it and cringing it that you tried that, and
Speaker 1: to be able to kind of have it be like
Speaker 1: a school in real time just sharpened me up a lot.
Speaker 1: And I think if I was under this, if I
Speaker 1: was under the scrutiny of like everyone in America is watching,
Speaker 1: that would have been devastating, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that time time with a character, having
Speaker 2: the ability to explore that character with the same tribe
Speaker 2: of people with the same ensemble for such a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it teaches you. You get comfortable with those things that
Speaker 2: are so difficult when you're starting out, and then it
Speaker 2: allows you, I feel, to go deeper into Okay, I'm
Speaker 2: not worrying about my mark anymore. I'm not worried about
Speaker 2: the lights or the camera or the crew walking around
Speaker 2: or getting touched every fifteen seconds by a different person,
Speaker 2: and like all that stuff sort of goes away and
Speaker 2: you're able to sort of go go deeper. And what
Speaker 2: a gift, right, Oh?
Speaker 1: I agree? And it's like, really, and I don't know
Speaker 1: how else you would break through that without just an
Speaker 1: insane amount of hours doing it. Yeah, you know, like
Speaker 1: they come with a multi season kind of situation.
Speaker 2: You've done comedy and drama. I want to talk a
Speaker 2: little bit about what we do in the Shadows. Talk
Speaker 2: to me about playing Jeff. And had you seen the
Speaker 2: movie before?
Speaker 1: Yes? Yeah, yeah, I was. I was a big fan
Speaker 1: of the movie. Okay going into this and I didn't
Speaker 1: actually I was, so this is you know, Alison Jones?
Speaker 4: Yeah, obviously, so this is.
Speaker 1: An Alison Jones. I was actually reading. I've known her
Speaker 1: since I was sixteen. I was reading for I know,
Speaker 1: it's crazy. There's a few casting directors here that have
Speaker 1: that have literally watched me grow up. It's really it's
Speaker 1: a it's a crazy thing. So this is Alison. She
Speaker 1: was casting something else for FX that I was going
Speaker 1: in for a couple of times, and I was close
Speaker 1: on that thing, but it didn't look like it was
Speaker 1: going to happen. And while I was there on like
Speaker 1: the third callback for it, she just pivoted in the
Speaker 1: rooms like would you be interested in reading something for
Speaker 1: what we do in the Shadows? And I was like
Speaker 1: the sequel, Like what is this? She's like, well, they're
Speaker 1: making a series in America and I'm always I was
Speaker 1: like this with the British Office, so hats off to
Speaker 1: you guys, where I was like, I'm a complete snob
Speaker 1: where I'm like, oh, it's perfect, it can't be improved upon.
Speaker 1: There's no point in trying. How american of us, you know.
Speaker 1: So I was kind of like, I don't know, Alison,
Speaker 1: what is it? Is it? Who's involved is it? You know,
Speaker 1: like like I had any power, and she was like,
Speaker 1: it's it's Tiken Jimmy. I was like wow, I was like,
Speaker 1: and no, it's like it's like an addition to the movie.
Speaker 1: They're not carrying the characters. It's like a whole new thing.
Speaker 1: But she just had me sight reading, so just gave
Speaker 1: me the sides in the room I had. I watched
Speaker 1: the movie so much. I didn't like know it like
Speaker 1: line for line, but I knew all the characters from
Speaker 1: it and really really was a fan. And the couple
Speaker 1: of lines I had in the audition were like from
Speaker 1: that first encounter in the first episode where like I
Speaker 1: meet Nada and we'd like, you know, she thinks I'm
Speaker 1: the reincarnation of this beheaded lover of hers from ten
Speaker 1: thousand years ago, like that that's it, and he has
Speaker 1: like five lines in this audition. So all I thought
Speaker 1: about I was like, remember that character from the movie Stu,
Speaker 1: the guy that like clearly wasn't an actor, you know,
Speaker 1: like that that like they all like love him in
Speaker 1: the movie. And I think I've heard some interview with
Speaker 1: Tayka talking about how that's just somebody's mate in New
Speaker 1: Zealand that they asked to be in the film. I
Speaker 1: was like, I feel like this character's got to be
Speaker 1: like Stu, Like just don't act, don't try to be funny.
Speaker 1: That would be the death, Like just don't be an
Speaker 1: actor at all, Like try to try to be the
Speaker 1: most boring, no offense to this. But I was like,
Speaker 1: just try to just try to strip it down. And
Speaker 1: so I read it like that, and she threw me
Speaker 1: on tape and then like heard later that day that
Speaker 1: I got it, which was so insane. It's so crazy.
Speaker 2: I mean, by the way, I I have not in
Speaker 2: all of the conversations that I've had on this podcast
Speaker 2: or any other what you just talked about. Why does
Speaker 2: that happen so often that you're in this happens a lot. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that you're in for something else. Yeah, and you haven't
Speaker 2: been granted an audition on this other project. But a
Speaker 2: good a good casting director will see it or see
Speaker 2: something right. Suddenly you're getting just like a full on
Speaker 2: offer cast in something I know, I know, this is insane.
Speaker 5: Wow, oh this is what I'm This is pretty this
Speaker 5: is what I miss about going in rooms on Yes,
Speaker 5: not that that can't happen in a zoom and not
Speaker 5: that you know, Allison doesn't have the dexterity to make
Speaker 5: that happen outside of a room, but just that is
Speaker 5: one of those like, you know moments where it's like, look,
Speaker 5: you're here, you drove all the way here, would you
Speaker 5: mind reading this new pressure?
Speaker 1: And it's just one of those kind of serendipitous kismet
Speaker 1: things that works out.
Speaker 2: It happens all the time, all it's wild the time.
Speaker 1: Also, I had that one scene. They called me to
Speaker 1: say you got it. They say, your first day is tomorrow,
Speaker 1: let's send you the full script. And in the scene
Speaker 1: that precedes that scene, I'm jerking off in bed.
Speaker 2: Like, oh okay, she didn't have any audition that No, no.
Speaker 1: Not so much, all right, but yeah, that was and
Speaker 1: that was the first scene I shot. It was like
Speaker 1: midnight on Paramount with Taiko and Jamaine and Alwakie Talkie
Speaker 1: giving me like instructions on like how to jerk off camera. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was, it was. It was great.
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that, and I love her
Speaker 2: for that. I mean, I'm not I don't mean to
Speaker 2: say that it's typical like it. It just it happens
Speaker 2: all the time. I mean, it's just it's just nothing.
Speaker 1: I really, but you feel really lucky anytime that just
Speaker 1: something you do. Like because again, that other project all
Speaker 1: of a sudden didn't matter at all. Like not that
Speaker 1: it wasn't a good project is really good project, but
Speaker 1: like we just fell into this and it felt right
Speaker 1: and it just took off.
Speaker 4: I mean, I read it the Office, wasn't it.
Speaker 2: It was it was the Office or Parson rect I
Speaker 2: talked to your your mate John Huganaker not too long ago,
Speaker 2: Dope Sick what one of, if not my favorite show
Speaker 2: of the last year. I was just talking to someone
Speaker 2: this morning when I said I was going to be
Speaker 2: talking to you, and just the relevance of that movie,
Speaker 2: the power of that movie, the currency of that movie,
Speaker 2: and the compassion that that movie showed towards people who
Speaker 2: are truly struggling with addiction for a very specific reason.
Speaker 2: Is is changing, I mean in the best way that
Speaker 2: art can change people's mind. There's such a stigma behind it.
Speaker 2: There has been such a stigma for so many years
Speaker 2: about people who are drug addicts, right, even just a phrase,
Speaker 2: even the way you say it, drug addicts, but just
Speaker 2: the way that that story was told from the kids
Speaker 2: in high school addicted to the doctor, to you know,
Speaker 2: to everybody, talk to me a little bit about your
Speaker 2: experience working on of course I'm talking about Dope Sick.
Speaker 1: Yes, everything you're saying, Strong agree. And that was the
Speaker 1: biggest thing I took away from you know, Danny Strong
Speaker 1: has such an ability to take complex information and synthesize
Speaker 1: it through overlapping the storylines. Being able to do that
Speaker 1: with something like Dope Sick, which spans so many different timeframes,
Speaker 1: and he even put together connected some dots that weren't explicit,
Speaker 1: you know that he had to kind of use by
Speaker 1: talking to different people and different characters in the story
Speaker 1: to put together and put into the show with their permission. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, it was really just an incredible investigative reporting
Speaker 1: from Danny and then being able to like synthesize it
Speaker 1: and put it into an art But exactly what you
Speaker 1: said was I talked to John about this, was yeah,
Speaker 1: we all have that connotation with drug addicts, and we
Speaker 1: all came up with that, you know, feeling like the
Speaker 1: impetus is on them to change, not knowing that that's
Speaker 1: a narrative that was perpetuated and in many cases just
Speaker 1: completely fabricated by pharmaceutical companies when they were knowingly getting
Speaker 1: people hooked. So the fact that you know, not only
Speaker 1: is a drug addict someone that's sick and needs medical care,
Speaker 1: that the fact that they're even hooked in the first
Speaker 1: place is something a lot more sinister than a lack
Speaker 1: of control or genetic predisposition. So yeah, it's all pretty
Speaker 1: just dark and sinister from you know, the pharmaceutical aspect
Speaker 1: of it. Getting to work on it creatively was great.
Speaker 1: It was also coming out of that I went through
Speaker 1: like I think, I don't know a lot of people
Speaker 1: I've talked to went through this post twenty sixteen into
Speaker 1: like the next few years, Like even I know we
Speaker 1: skipped over this, but it's like doing Murphy Brown was
Speaker 1: the other one where it was felt like I felt
Speaker 1: relieved that I could act in something that's like a
Speaker 1: creative release for me. That still felt like it was
Speaker 1: having conversations that I in my personal life were having
Speaker 1: for the first time and trying to work through and
Speaker 1: or frustrated about politically and otherwise. Murphy Brown was that
Speaker 1: and Dope Sick even more pointedly was that. So to
Speaker 1: be able to shine a light on this stuff and
Speaker 1: also work with people like John and Peter and Danny
Speaker 1: just was really really edifying. We were coming out of
Speaker 1: the pandemic too, so it was a really weird time,
Speaker 1: you know, where there was a lot of question about
Speaker 1: pharma and doctors and how important it is, you know,
Speaker 1: in a pandemic to be able to trust your doctors
Speaker 1: and trust vaccines, which was obviously you know where I
Speaker 1: stand with those things. But at the same time, have
Speaker 1: these examples where you're like, Okay, well, you're we're building
Speaker 1: a show based around the real truth that you can't
Speaker 1: always you know, trust these companies, and and just the
Speaker 1: fact that it went as high as it did, Juliani, right,
Speaker 1: It's just it's yeah, it was, it was. It was
Speaker 1: I feel really fortunate to you know, be part of
Speaker 1: that for sure.
Speaker 2: Playing the real life attorney John Brownlee. Did you talk
Speaker 2: to John?
Speaker 1: I didn't talk to John. Danny talked to John. Danny
Speaker 1: would sometimes be Danny talk to all these people a lot,
Speaker 1: but uh no, we didn't talk directly.
Speaker 2: Did you feel a responsibility or were you creating a
Speaker 2: character that just well, that just did what he did?
Speaker 1: You know, honestly, Danny's writing was so good, like and
Speaker 1: is so good that you know, he puts these things
Speaker 1: together in a way that I think he's he's cleared
Speaker 1: his conscience by talking to all these people. So it's
Speaker 1: it's set up. I mean, it works like a swift swatch,
Speaker 1: you know, like and it's all based on the hours
Speaker 1: and hours and hours that Danny's talk to these people
Speaker 1: on the phone. So I always, for sure you have
Speaker 1: like a little bit of ans or I do have
Speaker 1: like a little bit of anxiety. This was the case
Speaker 1: in American Sniper. And anytime I've played someone who you
Speaker 1: know isn't just a character on the page, but is
Speaker 1: actually being you know, is somebody from real life, there
Speaker 1: is a level of responsibility that otherwise wouldn't be there.
Speaker 1: But but Danny's script did such a service to him
Speaker 1: and his efforts and Rick and Randy like that that.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I was all I had to
Speaker 1: do is stay on track. There was nothing I felt
Speaker 1: like I could do to mess it up. You know,
Speaker 1: it was written so air tight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, fourteen Emmy nominations. What was that like for you
Speaker 2: in the cast? I mean was it? I mean it
Speaker 2: sounds self evident. But when you're involved in something that
Speaker 2: is recognized because other people think it's great, that's one thing.
Speaker 2: But when you yourself feel positive about the work and
Speaker 2: the story that you're telling, it's got to be even
Speaker 2: more gratifying, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I mean it's also typically awards for us.
Speaker 1: It's like the longer I've done this, the more you
Speaker 1: realize that translates in our industry to like career mileage,
Speaker 1: you know, like, oh, okay, you just got some miles
Speaker 1: because you're a part of this thing. This was the
Speaker 1: first one that like that meant so much less than
Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, awards have an ability to
Speaker 1: put things on the map and to bring awareness to
Speaker 1: a cause like dope sick. You know, I don't think
Speaker 1: people didn't know the Sackler family. You know, they had
Speaker 1: done a pretty good job and worked pretty hard to
Speaker 1: even admist the kind of trials that were going on,
Speaker 1: staying under the radar. And I think most people now
Speaker 1: when you hear Richard Sackler because of things like Dope Sick,
Speaker 1: because of like reporting in the Times, in the Post,
Speaker 1: and you know other outlets that kind of really nailed them.
Speaker 2: That's more.
Speaker 1: You know commentates, everyone knows who you're talking about and
Speaker 1: notes that they have a little bit of a scarlet letter.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, well, congratulations. I really think in terms of
Speaker 2: building awareness, empathy, compassion toward people struggling, you guys did
Speaker 2: did an amazing job.
Speaker 4: So thanks congrats on that.
Speaker 2: Your newest show out now, Hey on a peacock near you,
Speaker 2: missus Davis the Mad Scientist confusing genius Damon Lindelof's show
Speaker 2: with You, a nun and a rebel walk into a
Speaker 2: bar and chase down AI. People amazing reviews and audiences
Speaker 2: are loving it. What was it like? Well, what was
Speaker 2: it like for you working with Damon again? And was
Speaker 2: this was this a situation where he said come and
Speaker 2: join me or was it where you auditioning again?
Speaker 1: I was auditioning, but I mean it definitely had I
Speaker 1: mean we had worked together on Watchman and on Watchman
Speaker 1: the episode I was a part of was Jovon a
Speaker 1: Depot's episode. Yes, and Jovon had worked with Damon on Leftovers,
Speaker 1: as had Regina, and they were very That was like,
Speaker 1: you know, they did Leftovers and now Damon had asked
Speaker 1: them to come do this, and just that kind of
Speaker 1: community Damon builds with his players was something that was
Speaker 1: just so cool to watch jove On have that experience
Speaker 1: on Watchmen. So I had always you know, been like, Wow,
Speaker 1: that'd be really cool if that were to happen with
Speaker 1: me because I love I'm such a fan of all
Speaker 1: of Demon's work, and Watchman was such a great experience.
Speaker 1: It was like one of the best experiences professionally at
Speaker 1: the time that I had ever had.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest, I haven't watched Watchmen, but I'm
Speaker 2: going to now because The left I mean, I've heard
Speaker 2: about it forever, but you're going You're making me. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna watch it. The Leftovers. I freaking loved that show.
Speaker 2: I mean, I loved that show and like this weird
Speaker 2: humble brag thing, it was, you know, like an Emmy party.
Speaker 2: I ran into those guys and I like spent the
Speaker 2: entire time just telling them how amazing it was, to
Speaker 2: the point where I think they all left me and
Speaker 2: went to the bar because I could not stop talking.
Speaker 2: No way talking about the leftovers, but anyway, I interrupted,
Speaker 2: But no, but that's you.
Speaker 1: Know, honestly, I guarantee you they did not leave you
Speaker 1: and go to the bar, because that's it does feel
Speaker 1: like That's the one thread of everybody that I've met
Speaker 1: that's worked on a Damon show or with Damon is
Speaker 1: that you you become such a fan of it, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's it's fun to me an actor. You're a
Speaker 1: cog and a big machine, right, and to be such
Speaker 1: a fan of the machine as a whole. It is
Speaker 1: something that I've found with everybody that's worked with him,
Speaker 1: one common thread is like we all like nerding out
Speaker 1: and talking about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I always love when I meet someone who's kind of
Speaker 1: gotten deep obsessed over the materials, which as like we
Speaker 1: have left Efver is amazing. You should check out Watchman.
Speaker 1: It's it's a great series.
Speaker 4: I will.
Speaker 1: Are you a fan of the graphic novel?
Speaker 2: Sure? I mean novel? Yeah, I don't read, but yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I it's no Bran, it's it's pictures. I know you
Speaker 2: love picture I do love pictures. Yeah, I know I
Speaker 2: need to pick that up. I hear this all the time,
Speaker 2: but I.
Speaker 1: I yeah, I read it in preparation for or that.
Speaker 1: I had read it once forever ago, when I was
Speaker 1: really really little, And I don't think even like, I
Speaker 1: don't even think I read it because it's really it's
Speaker 1: a proper graphic novel. It's like thicks a lot of texts.
Speaker 1: The only time I read it, like top to bottom
Speaker 1: was before shooting the show. But I actually really enjoyed
Speaker 1: even I think before before I read it, I'd seen
Speaker 1: Zack Snyder's movie and I even really liked that, just
Speaker 1: the concept of it there. So anyway, I went into
Speaker 1: that like a pretty big fan of it and it
Speaker 1: was a really great experience. When Missus Davis came around,
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to make a tape for it.
Speaker 1: It was an audition. I was working on something in Atlanta, actually,
Speaker 1: and it was such it was such tricky material, especially
Speaker 1: without a script. I couldn't I couldn't tell which way
Speaker 1: to lean. I think they had described it. Vicky Thomas
Speaker 1: in the casting notes had kind of described it as
Speaker 1: taking place in a heightened reality similar to Watchman, and
Speaker 1: Watchman has a lot of opportunities for you know, dark comedy.
Speaker 1: So I was like, I think it's funny. It feels
Speaker 1: like it could be funny or I'm completely off and
Speaker 1: it should be you know, deadly serious. I couldn't tell
Speaker 1: exactly what the tone was, and you know, if you've
Speaker 1: watched the show, it really does strike this weird tone
Speaker 1: that kind of oscillates between you know, slapstick and serious drama. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so they snuck me a script, maybe two scripts, and
Speaker 1: once I read those, I was like, oh wow, I'm
Speaker 1: so on board.
Speaker 4: I get it.
Speaker 1: But even still hitting that target felt hard. And I
Speaker 1: don't know, but sometimes when you're working on something else,
Speaker 1: like making a tape for another thing, can be just
Speaker 1: it's just it's really disorienting and takes a little bit
Speaker 1: of an extra you know. And so I failed at
Speaker 1: making a tape to just get it the way I
Speaker 1: wanted to, like two times, and then on my third try,
Speaker 1: with my sister, who was like ready to kill me,
Speaker 1: I made a tape that I felt like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: think this is it and sent it off did like
Speaker 1: a zoom callback with Damon and Tara and Owen and Vicki,
Speaker 1: and after that callback got it, it just kept you know, man,
Speaker 1: it's it's like, I I've done this long enough, and
Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen things that I have read
Speaker 1: the scripts for turn out not as great as the script.
Speaker 1: It's so easy to have something as ambitious as Missus Davis,
Speaker 1: or even half as ambitious as Missus Davis somewhere along
Speaker 1: the process just get completely fucked up and lose its way,
Speaker 1: Like it could come from a million different directions, but
Speaker 1: by the time you you know, say action on day
Speaker 1: one to like that's a wrap on post, it just
Speaker 1: doesn't have the same just doesn't pack the same punch
Speaker 1: that it did in the script. So I was like
Speaker 1: apprehensive because I loved the scripts so much, but I
Speaker 1: wasn't sure about Peacock and how much they were behind it.
Speaker 1: You know, watching was on HBO, which just has, you know,
Speaker 1: a reputation for taking big sweetens like this, So I
Speaker 1: was kind of waiting for something to jump out and
Speaker 1: expose itself as like, oh, this is going to actually suck,
Speaker 1: and you're like ah, and it just didn't happen. Like
Speaker 1: meeting Betty was a big part of that. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you're a fan of Betty Gop and you shouldn't,
Speaker 1: but she's incredible. That elevated everything. Then meeting Owen and
Speaker 1: like what he planned to do with just the set design.
Speaker 1: He brought in his set designer and his costume designer
Speaker 1: from London and all of them were on this same
Speaker 1: kind of like Looney Tunes live action page and then
Speaker 1: props in one by one. It's just like a domino effect.
Speaker 1: As before we got to like the actual sets, it
Speaker 1: was like, holy shit, I think they're actually going to
Speaker 1: go for this, And and to Peacock's credit, they were
Speaker 1: so bhying the whole time. I think one of my
Speaker 1: favorite things I see certain people say, like when I'm
Speaker 1: like trawling Twitter or something, is like, how the fuck
Speaker 1: did this get made? It's amazing. I'm like, ah, yes,
Speaker 1: I know. More more encouragement for people to take big swings,
Speaker 1: especially people in like Peacock's position, where you know it
Speaker 1: really does come to on to the bottom line. You know,
Speaker 1: will really take big risks like this because it's so
Speaker 1: fun to watch.
Speaker 2: Well, congratulations, I don't want you to give any spoiler alerts.
Speaker 2: We're getting there to the end. But I do want
Speaker 2: to ask your opinion. What do you think that the
Speaker 2: show says about AI versus faith man or to you at.
Speaker 1: Least maybe that there's a place for both. Okay, that
Speaker 1: sounds like a shitty Press answer, doesn't it, Brian? I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's the show?
Speaker 2: Okay? All right? Fair enough?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, you know it has faith and technology,
Speaker 1: it also has magic. I think one of the things
Speaker 1: to be deadly serious that I didn't think about when
Speaker 1: it comes to AI until our show was just if
Speaker 1: you have, you know, something that can legitimately answer all
Speaker 1: your prayers, like an algorithm, you know, with access to
Speaker 1: the internet, cumulative knowledge of everything. Ever, what happens to
Speaker 1: things that rely on mystification like magic, Like magic's a
Speaker 1: big element in the show, and never thought about that,
Speaker 1: or probability like in poker and gambling like that all
Speaker 1: kind of falls away when when you have the answers
Speaker 1: to everything, it's you lose a little bit of life. Spark.
Speaker 1: I guess this sounds like another Press answer, kill me.
Speaker 1: I don't fucking no. No.
Speaker 2: I think that's very no. I think that's very interesting.
Speaker 2: I think that's very interesting. I mean that that really is.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until we were, you know, maybe halfway through
Speaker 1: shooting the show that those pieces kind of fell in
Speaker 1: place for me where I was like, that's not a
Speaker 1: question I had even thought about. Strange because now I
Speaker 1: think we're we're all talking about it. Now we're seeing
Speaker 1: that happen, and I feel like it's you can see
Speaker 1: the snowball effect of thinking this, this this like corner
Speaker 1: of our paradigm is safe from rapidly accelerating AI. And
Speaker 1: then you realize like none of it is, Like you
Speaker 1: can really you can really imagine a world where it
Speaker 1: can come kind of take over everything, or do improve anything,
Speaker 1: or or improve to a fault everything, you know, Like,
Speaker 1: so these are all things we're talking about and thinking
Speaker 1: about now. When we were making this show seven months
Speaker 1: ago or whatever it was, this was less on everybody's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what makes That's what makes the man. He's
Speaker 2: a very very smart man. He sees it coming. No,
Speaker 2: but I you know, it's something that faith is something
Speaker 2: that is important to well to everyone, not necessarily religious faith,
Speaker 2: but the idea in believing in something that you can't
Speaker 2: prove or that is improbable totally be it religion, be
Speaker 2: it sports, be it anything like.
Speaker 1: Brian like we were talking about before, even this, I
Speaker 1: mean like it takes a little bit of faith despite
Speaker 1: the odds and despite knowing better right that it's still
Speaker 1: worse jumping in and giving it a shot. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's very human faith.
Speaker 2: And if everything can be proven right, where does that leave.
Speaker 2: Faith's fascinating to me. If an amazing show with Damon
Speaker 2: Lindelof is not enough, you also have with Kate Marra
Speaker 2: an FX series Class of Nine out, Now, go check
Speaker 2: that out. I mean you you're just like in my brain.
Speaker 2: You're in my eyeballs and my brain now anywhere I look.
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter what channel. I'm gonna talk to your
Speaker 2: agent about exclusivity because you don't. Never sign up for exclusivity.
Speaker 1: This is why you do two shows about AI so
Speaker 1: you get the algorithms on your side. See a Class
Speaker 1: of nine is about AI, Missus Davis is about AI.
Speaker 1: That's how you stay in the zeitgeist.
Speaker 2: You're current, that's all I know. You don't know how
Speaker 2: to set up a zoom meeting. You're currently. You're current, exactly.
Speaker 2: Congratulations on all of your success. I have really enjoyed
Speaker 2: chatting with you today. I wish you nothing but the best.
Speaker 2: I'm a I'm a big fan, and You're welcome back anytime.
Speaker 2: So next month when you have another show, come out,
Speaker 2: come back, come back, and we'll chat about that.
Speaker 1: I would love to Brian, I'm such a fan. I
Speaker 1: was so excited that you asked me to do this,
Speaker 1: so thank you man. I'd love to come back anytime
Speaker 1: you'd have me.
Speaker 2: Awesome. Jake McDorman, everybody, John Allen Doorman, Congratulations my friend.
Speaker 4: Thanks buddy, Jake, my new friend.
Speaker 2: This was a delight.
Speaker 1: Thank you.
Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing your insight. Now I'm not going
Speaker 2: to do that again. Thank you for coming on, Jake.
Speaker 2: That was very, very fun sharing your story. I'm looking
Speaker 2: forward to owning you on the racquetball court sometimes very soon. Listeners,
Speaker 2: if you haven't already, be sure to catch up on
Speaker 2: Missus Davis and Class of Nine. Missus Davis fascinating show.
Speaker 2: I highly recommend, and that should keep you busy until
Speaker 2: next week when guess what. I'm going to be back
Speaker 2: with another amazing an old friend from HR.
Speaker 4: We'll see you next week.
Speaker 2: Off the Beat is hosted and executive produced by me
Speaker 2: Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior
Speaker 2: producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah
Speaker 2: Harris and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary,
Speaker 2: and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble
Speaker 2: and Squeak, performed by the one and only Creed Bratton,