Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome back to it could happen here, a
Speaker 1: podcast about things falling apart, And speaking of falling apart,
Speaker 1: when we're when we're talking about the crumbles, the slow
Speaker 1: and sometimes rapid erosion of institutions in this country, nothing
Speaker 1: is quite as relevant as the tech industry.
Speaker 2: I'm Robert Evans. Obviously on the line with me is
Speaker 2: Garrison Davis. And we also have someone new with us
Speaker 2: today who's going to be talking talking tech, and particularly
Speaker 2: talking about the n f T crash and some of
Speaker 2: what that has to tell us about both how the
Speaker 2: tech industry functions now and about how kind of our
Speaker 2: economies of hype contribute to a state of what what
Speaker 2: what what? Ed Zitron, who is our guest here, tends
Speaker 2: to call the rot economy. Ed, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3: Hi, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just hand it over to you at this point.
Speaker 3: So you may remember two years ago where kind of
Speaker 3: ghoulish half wit libertarians emphatically told you that NFT's non
Speaker 3: functibal tokens would change everything that people wanted to own
Speaker 3: a unique digital object, and indeed that the said uniqueness
Speaker 3: of said objects, say a picture of an ape or
Speaker 3: an animated gift of a sports moment would be worth millions.
Speaker 3: The hypeia was insane. Justin Bieber paid one point three
Speaker 3: million dollars for a board ape, which is one of
Speaker 3: ten thousand procedurally generated pictures of a monkey, and celebrities
Speaker 3: like Milakounis and Lindsay Lohan would fund and create their
Speaker 3: own NFT projects. In fact, multiple celebrities raised millions of
Speaker 3: dollars for these kind of noxious little creations. Their logic
Speaker 3: entirely hinged upon the idea that something being a one
Speaker 3: of a kind somehow made it valuable, and that a
Speaker 3: digital token connected to a picture of video is the
Speaker 3: same as say a rare baseball card or a comic book,
Speaker 3: or the sense that owning part of a digital entity
Speaker 3: like a game was somehow valuable. I personally do not
Speaker 3: think owning a sword from World of Warcraft a unique
Speaker 3: one means anything. I do not think that's meaningful in
Speaker 3: any way. But listen, got a bit of advice for
Speaker 3: anyone listening. When any one tells you to ignore your
Speaker 3: eyes in your ears, it's the Duller voice in your
Speaker 3: head that says, huh, that sounds really goddamn stupid or to,
Speaker 3: of course, put a bunch of money into an unproven asset.
Speaker 3: You should always try and work out how they're going
Speaker 3: to get paid in the end. But nevertheless, it's important
Speaker 3: to know the fundamentals of this crap, this noxious industry. Now,
Speaker 3: of course we're talking about cryptocurrencies. So these are tokens
Speaker 3: on a decentralized blockchain. In this case, a non fungible
Speaker 3: token or so it's an NFTY is a unique digital
Speaker 3: identifier on a blockchain like Ethereum or Polygon, one that
Speaker 3: kind of be copied, substituted, or divided like a regular token.
Speaker 3: Ownership in this case, who owns the NFT is based
Speaker 3: on whoever owns the wallet. That said that the NFT
Speaker 3: in question is actually stored, and meaning that if someone
Speaker 3: tricks you into sending your board ape to somebody else,
Speaker 3: they technically own it. These NFTs of images, say the
Speaker 3: board Ape, yacht club, Pudgy Penguins, what have you, are
Speaker 3: connected to images. So by which I mean you are
Speaker 3: quite literally buying a jpeg, you are buying a tokenized jpeg.
Speaker 3: These images are kept on something called the Interplanetary File
Speaker 3: System IPFS, and you have an IPFS address that attached
Speaker 3: to each token. What's important to know about this is
Speaker 3: this is another decentralized project where there's no real proof
Speaker 3: that your IPFS address isn't going to disappear in ten years.
Speaker 3: So you could end up buying one of these tokens
Speaker 3: and be left with bugger or like I said, you're
Speaker 3: effectively by buying a very expensive JPEG that may or
Speaker 3: may not be an image of something in ten, fifteen,
Speaker 3: twenty years, or even five years.
Speaker 4: So like I used to buy a whole bunch of
Speaker 4: digital games for my Nintendo Wii system, right, and these
Speaker 4: were not physical games, And now I cannot re download
Speaker 4: any of these things even though I bought them, because
Speaker 4: the digital system is just Nintendo is no longer supporting
Speaker 4: it isause it's kind of like a similar mechanism here
Speaker 4: in terms of there's like all this necessary internet infrastructure
Speaker 4: to like host these digital assets, but we don't actually
Speaker 4: control it infrastructure, right, So it's different than holding like,
Speaker 4: you know, a disc or in the case of an NFT,
Speaker 4: like an actual physical picture of a monkey.
Speaker 3: What's really funny is the example you just gave is
Speaker 3: one of the few examples of where NFTs could actually
Speaker 3: be useful.
Speaker 4: Huh.
Speaker 3: Digital games right now are in this position where, like
Speaker 3: you said, and you find this a lot with streaming
Speaker 3: products as well, where you can buy something, you buy
Speaker 3: a video game, you buy a movie, and you own
Speaker 3: it on Apple TV. Apple has complete power to pull
Speaker 3: that down. If indeed there was a non fungible token
Speaker 3: that contained the video in question, that might be quite useful.
Speaker 3: That might be really useful. In fact, unlike NFTs in general,
Speaker 3: which are not useful at all. You are just buying
Speaker 3: a jpeg the leads to an image and owning this jpeg.
Speaker 3: This NFT might get you inside a discord, perhaps a
Speaker 3: special discord of like minded people who have spent a
Speaker 3: lot of money on something very silly.
Speaker 4: Sounds like a party.
Speaker 3: It's so good and it's it was really something. These
Speaker 3: things have been around since at least twenty fourteen. I
Speaker 3: think crypto Kitties was one of the original ones. You
Speaker 3: could breed horrible looking cats. These horrible cats have sex
Speaker 3: and create new horrible looking cats. Well you didn't get
Speaker 3: to see the sex. Don't worry, Okay, it's the only
Speaker 3: reason I invested.
Speaker 4: Well, I let me google crypto kitty rule thirty four.
Speaker 4: I'm sure.
Speaker 3: I'm sure that there is a crypto kitty hen type, but.
Speaker 2: Now make sure to put Reddit in the in the
Speaker 2: search RaSE there. You gotta you're gonna get better results
Speaker 2: that way.
Speaker 4: Will I get in trouble for sending these results in
Speaker 4: the group chat? Will people get mad?
Speaker 3: I feel nothing anymore?
Speaker 4: Yeah, honestly, there's not as much as I thought there
Speaker 4: would be. I'm kind of disappointed.
Speaker 3: Well there's a vampire. Yeah. So the thing about this
Speaker 3: is the gold rush, this huge multi billion dollar NFT
Speaker 3: industry that kind of popped and dropped in the last
Speaker 3: couple of years, was something created by a kind of
Speaker 3: perfect storm of post lockdown financial hystory. You saw it
Speaker 3: with like AMC and game stop stocks, you saw it
Speaker 3: with crypto in general, and it was the sense that
Speaker 3: you were getting in early on something and it kind
Speaker 3: of resembled in a funky way being babies baseball cards,
Speaker 3: but also with the kind of stench of the fine
Speaker 3: art industry. But I also think that during the pandemic,
Speaker 3: and I'll get to a little more of this later,
Speaker 3: people really got this defined sense of how unfair everything is,
Speaker 3: how you can't just go to college anymore, you can't
Speaker 3: just work really hard and get a mortgage, you have
Speaker 3: to effectively find a way to cheat, and this seemed
Speaker 3: like a cheat they had got in on early. The
Speaker 3: problem is they didn't and I'll kind of get into
Speaker 3: that later. But another part of it, the part that
Speaker 3: really stank to me, was that they were selling this ugly,
Speaker 3: obviously rotten dream that you were owning part of a
Speaker 3: future media property being at the Yeah, like you were
Speaker 3: going to be part of Disney or Marvel the board apes.
Speaker 3: When you bought a board ape, you allegedly got the
Speaker 3: rights to distribute it and build a show or merchandise.
Speaker 3: And in fact, Seth Green bought an ape that he
Speaker 3: tried to build a TV show around Classic twenty twenty
Speaker 3: two idea building a TV show around NFT.
Speaker 2: Oh you guys, did you guys see the show by
Speaker 2: the way.
Speaker 4: We waked in the first few episodes.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that was a different NFT show.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a different board ape show.
Speaker 2: I can clarify here. There was a there was a
Speaker 2: show called The Red Ape Family that was about an
Speaker 2: adjacent property that Red Apes, but other NFTs. But then
Speaker 2: Seth Green was also trying to make a show that
Speaker 2: was like almost like a who framed Roger Rabbit where
Speaker 2: it's a mix of like cartoons and like real background sets.
Speaker 2: But it's just like about Seth Green, who is a
Speaker 2: monkey as a bartender, like it looked like dog shit.
Speaker 3: What's kind funny is someone scammed him out of that
Speaker 3: ape so he had to pause. He had to pause
Speaker 3: production on his show This is the future of entertainment, folks,
Speaker 3: because he didn't have the intellect property rights anymore. And
Speaker 3: then he ended up having to pay one hundred grand
Speaker 3: to get it back and the show never I cannot
Speaker 3: find the show anywhere. But this is the thing putting
Speaker 3: that aside. People genuinely thought they were buying like amazing
Speaker 3: Fantasy fifteen, first appearance of Spider Man stuff like that.
Speaker 3: They thought that they were buying something that would give
Speaker 3: them access but also some degree of ownership over a
Speaker 3: future IP And frankly, I can understand how they were
Speaker 3: scammed because you had people like Alexis o'hanian, the founder
Speaker 3: of Reddit, who threw his VC firm seven seven six
Speaker 3: sunk fifty four million dollars into an NFT project called Doodles,
Speaker 3: claiming in January of this year, twenty twenty three that
Speaker 3: Diogles this year. This year. H In fact, now, to
Speaker 3: be clear, the funding was last year twenty twenty two. Okay, okay,
Speaker 3: but he claimed this year. And to be clear, Doodles
Speaker 3: is a collection of an NFTs and an associated cart
Speaker 3: in that kind of looks like Adventure Time but significantly worse. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that makes sense. Alexis said that Doodles wanted to build
Speaker 3: the next generation of Disney and a whole world of
Speaker 3: IP that is giving people a state and a sense
Speaker 3: of ownership. Sure so, sure, buddy, yeah, exactly, Thank you, Alexis.
Speaker 3: I one hunt. How does being rich feel? So to
Speaker 3: be clear, what Doodles was is still it was a
Speaker 3: collection of ten thousand NFTs of Doodles procedurally generated, like
Speaker 3: most of these, and it's worth taking a step back here.
Speaker 3: Why are so many of these projects ten thousand images?
Speaker 3: It's because there's absolutely no creativity, not even a little.
Speaker 3: They just is it's.
Speaker 4: Like a is there like a false scarcity aspect which
Speaker 4: is trying to like inflate value? Is that like another
Speaker 4: reason for why they would have like these limited A matches,
Speaker 4: because I know the original board ape ones were like
Speaker 4: around around ten thousand as well at least initially.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's always like a couple thousds ten thousand, but
Speaker 3: when you take a step back and really think about it,
Speaker 3: that's actually a huge amount. It isn't the scarce good
Speaker 3: It isn't It may be to the people who are
Speaker 3: pumping and dumping them, but ten thousand isn't creativity. There's what, like,
Speaker 3: it's maybe thirty different spider men, so that's not ten
Speaker 3: thousand of them, and none of these have a name,
Speaker 3: none of these have a character. I will get to
Speaker 3: the two characters and Doodles, because there are just two.
Speaker 2: The more that you talk about this and just kind
Speaker 2: of based on my paying attention to it, I kind
Speaker 2: of feel like part of what we're seeing is like
Speaker 2: the intersection of two cultural myths, right. One of them
Speaker 2: is like the myth about how I mean it's not
Speaker 2: entirely myth, largely accurate about what happened with Apple when
Speaker 2: it went public, right, and all of these hundreds of
Speaker 2: like nerds who had just been like working class kids
Speaker 2: who become worth hundreds of millions of dollars overnight, right,
Speaker 2: which has become part of kind of like our our
Speaker 2: cultural memory of like how tech is supposed to work
Speaker 2: ever since. And then the other is like Star Wars, right,
Speaker 2: and the way in which George Lucas revolutionized capitalizing on
Speaker 2: every silly idea you've ever had, Like a lot of NFT.
Speaker 2: A lot of the NFT hype is based on the
Speaker 2: belief that like you could be, you could you could
Speaker 2: buy into the next like Glurf, stream Bow or whatever
Speaker 2: fucking weird George Lucas character, and it could get a movie,
Speaker 2: you know, because yeah, it's all infinitely capitalizable.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the kind of Buckshittos of the world. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean you're actually right as well, because I don't
Speaker 3: know if you remember when episode one Star Wars Episode
Speaker 3: one came out, they deliberately made the box to look
Speaker 3: like the old Return and the Jedi figures, which were
Speaker 3: now worth thousands.
Speaker 4: A lot of money, a lot of money.
Speaker 3: But there is that full scarcity aspect, and it is
Speaker 3: like that, except even worse because there's less value to it.
Speaker 3: Because when you buy a doodle, as you will, putting
Speaker 3: thousands of dollars into something called a doodle, one might
Speaker 3: wonder what exactly is the value of this, because doodles
Speaker 3: do not actually convey any intellectual property. Board apes kind
Speaker 3: of do the legalities muddy. You can merchandise your doodle
Speaker 3: for up to one hundred thousand dollars of physical goods,
Speaker 3: so T shirts. You know why you would buy a
Speaker 3: doodle T shirt? I'm not really sure, but you could
Speaker 3: sell it. Just the theoreticals here are amazing. But Doodles, really,
Speaker 3: at it's call, was sold on the idea that it
Speaker 3: allowed you to steer the company to vote on the
Speaker 3: future of Doodles, which is kind of similar to Board
Speaker 3: Ape Yacht Club. You could get ape coin if you
Speaker 3: had NFTs of the Apes or the Immute Apes, and
Speaker 3: you could then vote in these votes about the future
Speaker 3: of the Board eight Yacht Club, but not Yuga Labs,
Speaker 3: who owns the Board eight Yacht Club. So really you
Speaker 3: were just controlling a vague sense of nothing. In the
Speaker 3: case of Doodles, you could vote on what they may
Speaker 3: do in the future. It was never really obvious.
Speaker 4: Was doodles A doos is a dow okay, okay.
Speaker 3: And the funny thing to remember about almost all of
Speaker 3: these as well, is not in the case of Doodles,
Speaker 3: but in the case of like the bord Epe Yacht
Speaker 3: Club and the Ape Chain, I hate this crap, and
Speaker 3: Joyson Horowitz owns fourteen percent of all ape coin of
Speaker 3: their initial drop. They own multiple cryptoproducts, large chunks of
Speaker 3: these total tokens, and so they can control these votes
Speaker 3: if they need to. But what's also important to know
Speaker 3: is none of this stuff involves the actual goddamn company.
Speaker 3: Nobody owns a thing. These decentralized autonomous organizations doos are
Speaker 3: always framed as this kind of democratic process, carefully leaving
Speaker 3: out the fact that a democratic system with transactable votes
Speaker 3: is by definition of goddamn kleptocracy. But on top of that,
Speaker 3: you don't own anything. You don't have anything with these companies.
Speaker 3: You don't get stock, you don't get anything. You just
Speaker 3: have one of ten thousand images that may in ten
Speaker 3: years not actually go anywhere. It's farcical. The only thing
Speaker 3: dumber than that, however, is the fact that Doodles is
Speaker 3: no longer an NFT project and will no longer cater
Speaker 3: the speculators. According to a statement a much by the
Speaker 3: co founder Jordan Poopy Castro Poopy is oh.
Speaker 2: Wow, see this is where I'm putting you know what, Garrison,
Speaker 2: I'm putting the whole company pension plane behind this guy,
Speaker 2: Poopy's got to be the one who mix those cars
Speaker 2: from now on.
Speaker 3: You got to it's really got to suck as well.
Speaker 3: If you were like a speculative investor in Doodles already
Speaker 3: and you find out that your whole thing is what
Speaker 3: can be worthless because of a guy called Poopy, I
Speaker 3: think that that's that's just very special to me. Yea, yeah, continue,
Speaker 3: I'll continue. So, just to be clear, less than the
Speaker 3: year before this, according to their investor, this company was
Speaker 3: positioned to continue to define the NFT industry and onboard
Speaker 3: millions to the blockchain and become one of the most inclusive, creative,
Speaker 3: joyful media brands in Web three and beyond. This is
Speaker 3: the same company that had now officially RUG called their
Speaker 3: entire customer base. And by the way, if you'd have
Speaker 3: invested at the time that the fifty four million dollar
Speaker 3: funding round so towards the end of twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: you would have lost money. You would not have gained money.
Speaker 3: There was no liquidity event that had given would give
Speaker 3: you anything. Also important to recognize with so other than
Speaker 3: Alexis o'hanian, the other investor in Doodles was FTX Ventures.
Speaker 3: So in March of twenty twenty three, you kind of
Speaker 3: sat down with your morning coffee and you read the
Speaker 3: announcement from Jordan Poopy Castro and found out that your
Speaker 3: FTX back town ft project had lost about eighty five
Speaker 3: percent of its value and now the company was not
Speaker 3: backing you in any fucking way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean FTX is putting out Super Bowl ads.
Speaker 4: They seem stable, they seem like, Alliam, that'd be fine.
Speaker 3: What could happen? It'd be fine. But what's great about
Speaker 3: this is it is probably one of the largest rug
Speaker 3: pools I've ever seen. And nobody is in trouble. Nobody's
Speaker 3: mad at Alexishanium Doodles sold people on a dream. A
Speaker 3: stupid dream, but a dream, yes, yes, yes, very very
Speaker 3: goddamn stupid one that you'd been investing in, participating in
Speaker 3: the future of intellectual property and have some industry over
Speaker 3: its future. You would theoretically, though obviously when you read
Speaker 3: this now it sounds dumb, and also when you read
Speaker 3: it at the time, it's you were meant to be
Speaker 3: buying into the next Disney, next Marvel. Yes, what was sold?
Speaker 4: That is Another huge aspect is think there's like, I
Speaker 4: think a lot of people who are like, you know,
Speaker 4: grew up with like pop culture and want to take
Speaker 4: part in like the creation of like culture and media.
Speaker 4: But you know, Hollywood systems feels so foreign and unattainable.
Speaker 4: So this thing comes up and this looks like like
Speaker 4: a democratized way that you can like get in on
Speaker 4: some like new version of what the entertainment like landscape
Speaker 4: will be. And you're like, oh, this is this is
Speaker 4: like my chance I can be one of ten thousand
Speaker 4: people to like contribute towards this next big, you know,
Speaker 4: cultural thing in ten twenty years. I mean, obviously that's
Speaker 4: like in retrospect, it's very clearly a scam for some people,
Speaker 4: like probably myself and many people listening. Initially this sounded
Speaker 4: like a scam, but it certainly was alluring for a
Speaker 4: good deal number of people. I mean, I'm this is
Speaker 4: kind of reminding me that there was this very similar
Speaker 4: kind of dow big big failure around Dune. They were
Speaker 4: wanting to put out.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they want wanted to buy, they wanted to
Speaker 2: buy the deck and the rights to Yodorowski's Dune, Yes yeah.
Speaker 4: And and and put out media and put it like
Speaker 4: their own like animated series, which is funny because initially
Speaker 4: they just they weren't even gonna bother with like the
Speaker 4: intellectual property, which is really funny because you know, a
Speaker 4: big part of of this this NFT stuff is like
Speaker 4: you own the IP of each NFT character, right, And
Speaker 4: as they as this kind of project progressed, they slowly
Speaker 4: started to realize that what they've done was probably just
Speaker 4: commit massive fraud, and they completely collapsed. Like this dune
Speaker 4: like NFT dow project was being was being boosted by
Speaker 4: a lot of like very mainstream publications. It was it
Speaker 4: was extremely hyped up, which can lead people to like
Speaker 4: assume this is like a legitimate like entertainment project that
Speaker 4: you could like participate in by buying this small little piece.
Speaker 4: Last year, very very clearly kind of fell apart. Yes,
Speaker 4: was kind of pre predestined.
Speaker 3: And what's really sad about this is we can laugh
Speaker 3: at these people. I'll get to this in a bit,
Speaker 3: and we can laugh at these people. We should. It's
Speaker 3: very funny, but at the same time, a lot of
Speaker 3: people got screwed here because they trusted in people like
Speaker 3: Alexis Ohanian, founder of Unscathed. Despite the horrifying things that
Speaker 3: Reddit has done. Alex Ohenian insanely rich, married to a
Speaker 3: tennis star. God bless him. Hope they're happy. But nevertheless,
Speaker 3: Alexis has managed to fairly easily escape all blame for
Speaker 3: the fact that he misled everyone with this and other things.
Speaker 3: But this in particular because the dream of doodles. God,
Speaker 3: that sucks to say out loud, by the way, the
Speaker 3: dream of doodles was that you were buying one of
Speaker 3: these ten thousand things, and that you'd be part of
Speaker 3: a community and you'd be able to steer the doodle's movement.
Speaker 4: The doodles community is christ I know. The Doodles revolution
Speaker 4: I think is more more accurate.
Speaker 3: And the doodle Easters, now that's not a term.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I like that. I like that doodle
Speaker 2: least as doodlers.
Speaker 3: They're all the doodoos. Yeah, but you would be investing
Speaker 3: in the future VIP, you'd have part of this and
Speaker 3: you'd be you know what, put aside the money, put
Speaker 3: aside all the cash, because they're not doing speculation anymore.
Speaker 3: It's not about that. Let's just focus on the community,
Speaker 3: which is dying, which is completely dead. I would argue
Speaker 3: so fairly recently, Doodles had to remove the fifty quorum,
Speaker 3: which would require fifty percent of NFT holders to interact
Speaker 3: with the project to push a vote through. They had
Speaker 3: to remove that in say why they had to remove it,
Speaker 3: and I guess because nobody gives a shit, because nobody cares,
Speaker 3: nobody gives a rap fuck about any of this, and
Speaker 3: then voted to appoint a founding Community Council to make
Speaker 3: decisions about where the doodle bank, oh my god, Jesus
Speaker 3: Christies would be would be spent in the few So
Speaker 3: the doodle bank was where some of the revenues went
Speaker 3: from the secondary sales of these NFTs, because the companies
Speaker 3: always take a cart because let's seeking baby anyway. So
Speaker 3: if you were interested in the community aspect of Doodles,
Speaker 3: you're kind of shit out luck because they've now entirely
Speaker 3: deleted their Visions and Guidelines document, which is the part
Speaker 3: of the website that tells you how any of the
Speaker 3: community shit works. And they nothing is happening right now
Speaker 3: with them. There's nothing going on. This is the ninth
Speaker 3: most popular NFT project, and they have attempted to and
Speaker 3: indeed succeeded in removing their association with NFTs. Now one
Speaker 3: would think, okay, maybe they have a discord. Of course
Speaker 3: they did find it eighty five thousand members, oh wow,
Speaker 3: Except it felt more empty than my discord, which has
Speaker 3: six hundred people in it eighty seven hundred and sixty
Speaker 3: members as of when I opened it, and the newest
Speaker 3: stands section did not have a post in it since
Speaker 3: August thirtieth, which was announcing that the Doodle's Crops collaboration
Speaker 3: had sold out, terrible news to the least barkable people alive,
Speaker 3: and their other official channels really hadn't been updated since
Speaker 3: mayor August. The General Hall channel, which is where everyone
Speaker 3: was talking, was mostly just bots and people's saying the
Speaker 3: words Dude's rule, that's dods rule. No real communication. It
Speaker 3: felt like several chat bots kind of what you know,
Speaker 3: how you see oblivion or Skyrim MPC's walk up to
Speaker 3: the other yea kind greetings to you. Imagine that with
Speaker 3: NFT's eighty five thousand bloody people. I even tried to
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say antagonize them, but I did
Speaker 3: ask them, are you happy with your investment? No responses.
Speaker 3: I was like, how'd you feel about? No response, someone
Speaker 3: responded with Dude's rule once and it's insane because you
Speaker 3: won't believe this. The valuation of this company in their
Speaker 3: fifty four million dollar funding round was seven hundred million
Speaker 3: goddann dollars, and their chat room as the charm and
Speaker 3: vibrance of a dying more. This is meant to be
Speaker 3: the next generation of Disney, and yet it has no fans.
Speaker 3: There are people who will shoot you to death for
Speaker 3: insulting Spider Man. There are people who will scream at
Speaker 3: you for not liking the latest Star Wars thing. These
Speaker 3: are superfans. Yeah, there are people who will do that
Speaker 3: with obscure video games you've never heard of. But for Doodles,
Speaker 3: this barly billion dollar enterprise, the future of Disney. Not
Speaker 3: one of these people cared anything about this. All it
Speaker 3: was there's like, there are no superfans, no loyalists, no evangelists,
Speaker 3: nobody excited, no one even expressing an emotion, Just a
Speaker 3: bunch of freaks who got con saying GM every two
Speaker 3: minutes or hours. Actually, it was so strange because I've
Speaker 3: been in chatrooms since I was like eleven. I've seen
Speaker 3: varying levels of chatrooms in various games even the smallest
Speaker 3: community was kind of hopping. At some point, this then
Speaker 3: had no life. It was so strange.
Speaker 4: It's just like a digital ghost town.
Speaker 3: And the reality is what I said earlier, there's ten
Speaker 3: thousand of these goddamn things, these featureless, procedurally generated things.
Speaker 3: There's nothing to them. These NFT companies, these ones that
Speaker 3: allegedly want to replace Disney, they're incapable or unwilling to
Speaker 3: do anything approximating world building or law development. Lore Doodles,
Speaker 3: which is worth seven hundred million goddamn dollars, which got
Speaker 3: fifty four million dollars, has three characters that I can find.
Speaker 3: There's hap Is cap Mellow, and there was another one
Speaker 3: which I could not find a name for. There is
Speaker 3: maybe ten minutes of footage in the years that this
Speaker 3: thing was meant to exist. It's just so bizarre. It's
Speaker 3: so utterly craven and half fast. It's people attack Disney
Speaker 3: and Marvel through Disney obviously and Star Wars that oh,
Speaker 3: they're just oh, they're pushing this crap out. They're just
Speaker 3: churning this shit out and saying people are buy anything.
Speaker 3: In comparison, Disney are steadfast or teurs. They are creative
Speaker 3: agents like Liken to Salvador Dally, they are the compared
Speaker 3: to the NFT people, they're gods, because even Disney's least
Speaker 3: likable properties get more attention and have bigger fans than this.
Speaker 3: There are Disney adults who would like crying and falling
Speaker 3: on their knees when the lockdowns ended. Oh now these
Speaker 3: people would care. Now, these people of Jordan. Poopy Castro
Speaker 3: died tomorrow, nobody would shed a tear or even remember, apparently,
Speaker 3: And it's just I think the way to look at this,
Speaker 3: and especially Doodles, is that there is just within the
Speaker 3: NFT world and actually within the tech industry, Writt Lafe
Speaker 3: just this deep, deep seated loathing for creativity, storytelling and
Speaker 3: the customer Pendleton Ward, who made the original Adventure Time
Speaker 3: don't know if you remember, which is very clearly where
Speaker 3: Doodles is ripped off from. Just compel them. They look
Speaker 3: very similar. He made it over a decade ago. It's
Speaker 3: a five minute long video. He made it on his own,
Speaker 3: without funding, without anything, and it's beautiful and it's weird
Speaker 3: and it's great, and you're like, wow, I'm so glad
Speaker 3: this guy did this. Doodles, which has tens of millions
Speaker 3: of dollars sitting around, has put out seven goddamn minutes
Speaker 3: of teasers and advertisements for brand collaborations. That's it. That's
Speaker 3: all something about Farrell, something about crops, something about allegedly
Speaker 3: Doodles having a cartoon. I don't goddamn know, but my
Speaker 3: theory is that none of this was ever about creating anything.
Speaker 3: This was an attempt to go back to what you
Speaker 3: were saying earlier, to recreate that sense that I just
Speaker 3: bought the Star Wars toy that will be worth three
Speaker 3: thousand dollars and ten years. That's all this was. It was.
Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure they're well on their way because I'm
Speaker 4: looking at the Doodle site right now. You can buy
Speaker 4: a rug featuring my favorite Doodles character hap for one
Speaker 4: hundred dollars.
Speaker 3: So are you serious that these not the focus is
Speaker 3: selling a rug?
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, the crops are sold out. Unfortunately, I know,
Speaker 4: I know you were really wanted to get those. They're
Speaker 4: sold out. They were one hundred and twenty bucks. They're selling.
Speaker 4: They're selling little Vinyl toys for one hundred and eighty
Speaker 4: five dollars. They have a cat mush, they have a
Speaker 4: cat plush for forty bucks. They have a puzzle for
Speaker 4: twenty two dollars, and they finally have the before mentioned
Speaker 4: a rug.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's it's just wonderful.
Speaker 4: It seems like a good investment. These things are selling
Speaker 4: out fast. You want to you gotta, you gotta get in.
Speaker 4: Your characters could be the next one. Yeah, But I.
Speaker 3: Think that the ultimate thing is none of this was
Speaker 3: about creating anything, that really is it. It was creating
Speaker 3: just enough to sell securities to suckers, and now all
Speaker 3: of it is falling apart. The SEC just sued a
Speaker 3: group of celebrities for an NFT cat cartoon called Stoner Cats.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, I was really excited about Stoneer Cat.
Speaker 3: I was really pumped up for seeing Stoner Cats. But
Speaker 3: sadly the SEC changed the creator for unregistered offering of NFTs,
Speaker 3: which are securities, and they raised eight million dollars. It's
Speaker 3: just very sad, very funny by the way that the
Speaker 3: SEC now is to get in like garygansters to look
Speaker 3: at Stoner Cats and say, all right, let's let's take
Speaker 3: a look at this, or that's not good. How a
Speaker 3: test is going to have fun with this? But I
Speaker 3: think NFTs were and are probably one of the more
Speaker 3: nihilistic parts of the industry. Yeah, because they did the
Speaker 3: bare minimum to convince people. They made up all of
Speaker 3: It's kind of like that episode of The Simpsons where
Speaker 3: they remake Flanders's house and it's just a facier and
Speaker 3: it effectively.
Speaker 2: Falls bearing poster.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, exactly, and it's just enough to make people
Speaker 3: believe this could be worth enough, because it's never really
Speaker 3: obvious what actually makes something worth something. In the collectible's market,
Speaker 3: there are established artists whom I personally own a bunch
Speaker 3: of original comic artwork, a lot of it by Arthur Adams,
Speaker 3: and that market is fairly small because there's only so
Speaker 3: much one man can do, and the value comes from
Speaker 3: what people are willing to pay. But in that case,
Speaker 3: it's beautiful pencils and inks and it's gorgeously you want
Speaker 3: on your wall. In this case, it's I'm buying something
Speaker 3: that sounds like it might be valuable. There's not really
Speaker 3: a fundamental community that sounds fine, but when you push
Speaker 3: past even the first layer, it all falls apart. And
Speaker 3: that's because, in my opinion, the NFT hype was just
Speaker 3: a long conon customers in the media. It's a scam,
Speaker 3: a scam where companies built the appearance of value without
Speaker 3: ever actually generating anything. There's nothing to old some vinyl figures.
Speaker 3: Who cares? Nobody's done. The board Ape Yacht Club has
Speaker 3: the world's shittiest cartoon. They did a flash game called
Speaker 3: Dookie Dash.
Speaker 4: Yes I did, I did see Dookie Dash. What was
Speaker 4: great was Game of the Year twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: Game of the Year twenty twenty two. Immediately, by the way, scammed,
Speaker 3: just immediately someone broke it and they had to like,
Speaker 3: they were like, what how did this happen? But that's
Speaker 3: the thing, you go. Labs worth a couple billion dollars,
Speaker 3: Doodle's worth seven hundred million, nothing to them, not a
Speaker 3: single interesting idea in any of them, but they existed
Speaker 3: to con people into believing this completely thin view it.
Speaker 3: And also the nihilistic part is he was talking about
Speaker 3: people collecting art and collecting creative things, but without actually
Speaker 3: ever seeing the value in the object. The objects creativity
Speaker 3: was only as valuable as it was sellable, but not
Speaker 3: even sellable to an enterprise. It was just like to
Speaker 3: another person who could continue the chain of shit.
Speaker 4: I think there is a large untapped market for this
Speaker 4: though that Doodles is actually trying to exploit because I
Speaker 4: just found probably one of the most epseetic things I've
Speaker 4: discovered today, which is saying something because I've seen a
Speaker 4: lot of a lot of best stuff today. Today's a
Speaker 4: lot of workime footage is But there is a Doodle's
Speaker 4: immersive experience in Chicago for children. Oh No, children create
Speaker 4: their own Doodles and you can pay twenty eight dollars
Speaker 4: per person to spend an hour in this Doodles themed
Speaker 4: art installation in Chicago. I'm looking at I'm looking at
Speaker 4: the availability.
Speaker 2: There is yeahs book one for the team.
Speaker 4: There is ten slots open each day. All the slots
Speaker 4: are open tomorrow, So I think we should get a
Speaker 4: flight like tonight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, right now.
Speaker 4: Asap.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's gonna sund I'm gonna send you this like
Speaker 3: because it's the most one of the more disturbing things
Speaker 3: i've I've I've found.
Speaker 5: I don't want to go to the Doodles camp every
Speaker 5: It's twenty twenty eight dollars per kid for one hour
Speaker 5: of walking in this one Doodles themed room where first
Speaker 5: your kid creates a Doodle's character.
Speaker 4: So you can enter doodle world. You go through a
Speaker 4: rainbow portal, you slide down rainbows, play in puffy clouds,
Speaker 4: and crash a spaceship and then you romp through a
Speaker 4: whimsical world until your hours up, and then you leave
Speaker 4: after spending twenty eight dollars per child.
Speaker 2: It's like if a committee designed fucking meal wolf right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's a committee of people on thorazine.
Speaker 3: But if you watch this video as well of this
Speaker 3: Doodle's world, here's the thing. You don't see anything of anything.
Speaker 3: There's nothing rabow. There's a picture of the guy who
Speaker 3: I've already forgotten the name of Hop.
Speaker 4: I can't forgot Hop's name.
Speaker 3: I can't believe I've forgot Hop.
Speaker 4: But its one and eighty five dollars to get a
Speaker 4: figure you have to remember.
Speaker 3: God damn it. And but that's that's the thing. This
Speaker 3: is just it's a masterpiece of emptiness. It is a
Speaker 3: meaningless thing. There is nothing to doodles.
Speaker 4: No, it's it's it's vapid.
Speaker 3: There's nothing to any of it. And NFT Investors was
Speaker 3: sold this dream of kind of an access to wealth
Speaker 3: or for both sides that like, oh the artist will
Speaker 3: make money because every NFT sale you get some royalties,
Speaker 3: some residuals, which theoretically is a cool thing that when
Speaker 3: an artist has a piece sort on someone else. I
Speaker 3: like that idea I always have, And in turn, by
Speaker 3: buying into this quote unquote art, you can generate your
Speaker 3: own wealth and you can be part of this positive
Speaker 3: chain where everyone wins. But you're also early, so you
Speaker 3: get to feel smart. Except the problem is that you're
Speaker 3: more than likely left with a worthless piece of shit.
Speaker 3: You're left with nothing. So fundamentally there will be and
Speaker 3: I don't believe more than a couple thousand people made
Speaker 3: any money on NFTs. Now, the majority of the people
Speaker 3: who bought NFTs are going to be left in the red,
Speaker 3: and every new entrant is just another sucker to hopefully
Speaker 3: dump an investment onto. Because there are no NFTs that
Speaker 3: have a fundamental value. There's not one. It's not notice
Speaker 3: that Disney, Marvel, none of these major things. Notice that
Speaker 3: none of them got involved. They didn't want to fucking
Speaker 3: touch us. DC did a vague idea of buying comic covers,
Speaker 3: but even then it was half us because why why
Speaker 3: would you do it? I've been saying this since twenty
Speaker 3: twenty one that these things had no value, that it
Speaker 3: was just an attempt to sell people this vague sense
Speaker 3: of participation in a new economy. And in fact, there
Speaker 3: was a study that came out an analysis of seventy three,
Speaker 3: two D and fifty seven NFT collections. Ninety five percent
Speaker 3: of NFTs on the market are now totally worthless. The
Speaker 3: value of these collections is zero ethereum. Almost every single
Speaker 3: person encouraged to invest them by The New York Times,
Speaker 3: by CNBC is a victim of a massive legal fraud
Speaker 3: peddled by Internet charlatans like Alexishanian. I'm not saying he's
Speaker 3: one of them, but there are people within the NFT
Speaker 3: industry who also wash trade these things, which means that
Speaker 3: they effectively sell them to themselves. And there's a there's
Speaker 3: actually increasingly impressive research that suggests that most NFT sales
Speaker 3: were just washtrading, just people pumping and pumping and pumping.
Speaker 3: That's why Justin Bieber's ape that he bought for one
Speaker 3: point three million dollars is worth about sixty grand. Now
Speaker 3: he'll be fine, but other people won't. And that's what's
Speaker 3: really anger inducing. That's what fills my veins full of
Speaker 3: poison and if these were never worth anything, and the
Speaker 3: majority of the industry is made up of fake goddamn
Speaker 3: transactions and the people who will suffer on the majority,
Speaker 3: and the majority are not rich, The majority are not
Speaker 3: anything other than desperate people who were manipulated.
Speaker 2: It's like with fucking the FTX collapse, which is funny
Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, but also one of the
Speaker 2: big bag holders wound up being like a teacher's pension fund.
Speaker 2: Like that was massive, and obviously I think that like
Speaker 2: an addition to go in after sam people regulators should
Speaker 2: be looking at who the fuck made the call to
Speaker 2: put people's pension money and fucking brain genius kids gambling in.
Speaker 2: But it is like there is like real harmed in
Speaker 2: and that was like always the plan. Everyone who was
Speaker 2: involved in pushing this is was trying to, Like the
Speaker 2: whole game plan was create this critical mass of hype
Speaker 2: that broke people's ability to actually analyze what they were doing.
Speaker 2: That just kind of made them panic and throw money
Speaker 2: in because they felt like otherwise they were going to
Speaker 2: miss out on their chance to retire.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: That was the whole thing, and that's why like the
Speaker 2: entire social media hype around this was all based on
Speaker 2: you're gonna stay poor forever if you don't get in
Speaker 2: on this right now, Like it's so disgusting and yeah,
Speaker 2: just evil, evil people.
Speaker 3: And they were never a great investment. They were never
Speaker 3: in the future of IP. They're just a vehicle to
Speaker 3: extract capital from retail investors, from regular people who to
Speaker 3: your point, earlier, who didn't invest in Apple earlier or
Speaker 3: Google early, they didn't get the chance, they didn't buy
Speaker 3: the Star Wars toy. So this was their chance to
Speaker 3: get ahead. And if these are just an exploitative scam,
Speaker 3: they create just enough, it's a true scam as well.
Speaker 3: They create just enough to get people in the door,
Speaker 3: and just enough to make that investment defensible. They and
Speaker 3: it honestly shared a lot of the language of the
Speaker 3: Joe Oldstein's and conspiracy theorists and tell other teller evangelists
Speaker 3: telling people to your point that oh, you're not gonna
Speaker 3: make it, Oh have fun staying poor. What a noxious
Speaker 3: fucking thing to say, What a disgusting thing to say
Speaker 3: to someone. And what's funny is they use the other
Speaker 3: scam that some companies in the tech industry used FDx,
Speaker 3: for example, where they would raise rounds a venture capital
Speaker 3: which gave the appearance of a real enterprise where things
Speaker 3: were actually happening, and then they sold them this dream of, oh,
Speaker 3: you could own a piece of this, despite the fact
Speaker 3: that not a single god NFT actually granted stock options,
Speaker 3: voting rights, or anything else, because if they did that,
Speaker 3: it would immediately become a security, so they'd never do that.
Speaker 3: You don't have consequential votes. You don't have any industry
Speaker 3: over this industry. You just have a thing that can
Speaker 3: be It may not be fungible, but the operating environment
Speaker 3: for it is absolutely fucking fungible. If Doodles was truly
Speaker 3: non fungible, they wouldn't be able to change the doodle's quorum.
Speaker 3: They would just have to sit there and do nothing.
Speaker 3: But what's also important to realize, and as I've said before,
Speaker 3: but I'll say it a goddamn gain, is they really
Speaker 3: didn't try very hard. The board Ape Yacht Club, which
Speaker 3: is the biggest one the ten thousand horrifying looking apes
Speaker 3: owned by a company called Yuga Labs. They were valued
Speaker 3: at four billion dollars in twenty twenty two. Despite the
Speaker 3: fact that they said they were going to go Hollywood.
Speaker 3: They'd not actually created anything they did. They said they
Speaker 3: were going to do a metaverse product. They sold NFTs
Speaker 3: of this metaverse thing that they've never shown, called Other
Speaker 3: Side I believe. Yeah, it crashed ethereum, but have not
Speaker 3: in the.
Speaker 2: Video game where you travel through a toilet looking for poop,
Speaker 2: Dookie Dash. Yeah, this is the new Disney everyone, This
Speaker 2: is it.
Speaker 3: This is the new Disney. It's the metaverse that will
Speaker 3: never get built. It's the cartoon about monkeys and toilets
Speaker 3: that actually advertised Dookie Dash. The rich deep low of
Speaker 3: the bored a Yacht Club, by the way, is that
Speaker 3: a monkey did a poo so bad that a key
Speaker 3: came out to another dimension. But then the monkey somehow
Speaker 3: put that key in a bit that the monkey drank,
Speaker 3: and then the monkey did another poo where it put
Speaker 3: it into the sewer pipes, thus making it necessary for
Speaker 3: you to pilot another monkey to go and get the key.
Speaker 3: Very fucking stupid, very bad, ugly, like the designs suck.
Speaker 3: That's the other thing. These aren't even good looking. And
Speaker 3: this is a company worth four billion dollars four billion dollars,
Speaker 3: and all they've done is not make a metaverse, but
Speaker 3: make a lot of money, make a terrible series looking
Speaker 3: of cartoons that may or may not go anywhere, and
Speaker 3: an Eblum's World clone that got scammed almost immediately. Someone
Speaker 3: found a way to exploit it immediately, because it's a
Speaker 3: flash game. These are not creative enterprises. These are not
Speaker 3: entertainment companies. They're shell corporations for ill godden revenues for
Speaker 3: secondary market sales of ten thousand bullshit pictures that were
Speaker 3: hyped up by the media who could not analyze it properly.
Speaker 3: They just saw the large amounts of money that were
Speaker 3: being made, the crooked ways, by the way, the ones
Speaker 3: which were clearly pumped everyone covered them. World of Woman.
Speaker 3: Do you remember that one World of Woman? The NFT
Speaker 3: That was my favorite one because there were so many
Speaker 3: guys in the crypto world who like, yeah, I bought
Speaker 3: a World of Woman, entity support Woman. I love it. No,
Speaker 3: it's so good, and it's because all of it's exploitative.
Speaker 3: NFTs are vehicles to exploit people, particularly Americans, who are
Speaker 3: desperate and fairly questioning their place in the world that
Speaker 3: is continually turned upon providing basic social services and the
Speaker 3: ability for its citizens to thrive. There are a few
Speaker 3: honest ways for the average person to accumulate wealth anymore.
Speaker 3: It's nearly impossible to buy a house. Returns on the
Speaker 3: market suck. Market's already confusing. And yeah, all of that's
Speaker 3: quickly outplaced by the fact that you have student loans,
Speaker 3: health insurance, and inflation is making things more expensive than ever.
Speaker 3: And I would argue that that is really the root
Speaker 3: of what's so evil about crypto. Yeah, it's inherently exploitative.
Speaker 3: It is inherently linked in all of these ways to
Speaker 3: religious dogma that you're buying into something that you're finally
Speaker 3: part of, something meaning for, something that will grow, something
Speaker 3: that will make you in a way that your predecessors
Speaker 3: might have been just through living normally. This industry it
Speaker 3: took root because most people can't thrive. Everyone has to hustle,
Speaker 3: everyone has to struggle. You can't do the things that
Speaker 3: people even twenty years ago could. You can't work a
Speaker 3: normal job and buy a house anymore. You can't get
Speaker 3: a mortgage in many cases, you can't just go to
Speaker 3: college and probably pay those loans off in five years. God, no,
Speaker 3: that shit's going to follow you decades and nobody's helping you.
Speaker 3: And then along comes these along comes this very technological,
Speaker 3: cool sounding, non fungible token, this thing where oh, I
Speaker 3: could be part of this new art market. I can
Speaker 3: be the smart one for once. I could be ahead
Speaker 3: of everyone. And the people on the other side of
Speaker 3: that transaction are telling you everything you want to hear.
Speaker 3: Then the next Disney, then the next Marvel. You're gonna
Speaker 3: be part of something. You're gonna make it. That's what
Speaker 3: you'll do if you buy into this. All of those
Speaker 3: crypto people are totally fine, all of them, the Winklevosses
Speaker 3: like Sohanian Mock Andresen, Chris Dixon, they're all doing great.
Speaker 3: They are multi millionaires several times over. The people on
Speaker 3: the other side are victims, victims of what I would
Speaker 3: argue any just society would decide was a financial crime.
Speaker 3: And I think that every single venture capitalist who put
Speaker 3: money into these products and who pump them should be
Speaker 3: held accountable. They won't because that is the modern tech industry,
Speaker 3: because that is the modern government. There is no justice
Speaker 3: for the victims of NFTs. And it's really horrifying to watch.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, sometimes it can be hard to be
Speaker 4: sympathetic for these folks because we imagine them being like,
Speaker 4: you know, freedra Reddit, you know, chriactures. But I think
Speaker 4: if you have the capacity to feel sympathetic to like
Speaker 4: former cult members, this is kind of the same thing.
Speaker 4: This is like, this is it's really the same process.
Speaker 4: And a big part of actually beating cults is the
Speaker 4: ability to be sympathetic to former cult members. That it's
Speaker 4: actually like a crucial part of getting people to like
Speaker 4: get past this sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's going to include not just the innocent,
Speaker 2: but some people who did some pretty ugly things. And yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that's and that's hard critical.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I always try and push people to think
Speaker 3: of that because it is very easy to your point
Speaker 3: to look at the fedoras, to look at the wagon.
Speaker 3: Me guys, we're going to make it people and say
Speaker 3: these are the majority. I would argue most people, and
Speaker 3: I'll say this haven't been in too many telegrams of
Speaker 3: too many rug pulled projects just watching the vast majority
Speaker 3: of people are desperate. They just want their investment to turn.
Speaker 3: They just want something because there really isn't much way
Speaker 3: out people that really isn't Most people get lucky, and
Speaker 3: that's how they live what used to be, what used
Speaker 3: to be just like the general purpose good life, two
Speaker 3: point four children, house, white picket fans just doesn't happen
Speaker 3: for anyone anymore. And you're left with this. In a
Speaker 3: society where that happens, where there's so there are so
Speaker 3: few opportunities to thrive for people, you get things like this,
Speaker 3: you get these massive cons and I think that it
Speaker 3: will be hard for this to take root again. I
Speaker 3: don't think cryptos unscrewing people. I think that they will
Speaker 3: find a way to pump this in the future.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is why you should buy our new cool
Speaker 2: Zone coin, you know, for just the price of forty
Speaker 2: five dollars a coin you can ape in, and we're
Speaker 2: recommending right now just kind of transferring your whole four
Speaker 2: oh one k or into cool Zone coins, which which
Speaker 2: you can do by just sending it to our mailing
Speaker 2: address in the form of a check. Well, we'll get
Speaker 2: your coins to you.
Speaker 3: Don't worry, no problem, I will personally take care of
Speaker 3: it well ed.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for putting this together. I think
Speaker 2: it's important to kind of look at this sort of
Speaker 2: stuff in retrospect, especially as the next con builds.
Speaker 3: Up scheme.
Speaker 2: You know, interest rates will drop eventually, and then there
Speaker 2: will be another attempt to fleece large numbers of people,
Speaker 2: possibly using Larry David, although he may have learned this
Speaker 2: lesson this time. Ed, do you want to give the
Speaker 2: people some notes on where they can find you if
Speaker 2: they want to read your stuff?
Speaker 3: You can find letters your ed dot at as my newsletter,
Speaker 3: where's your red app? And you can find me on
Speaker 3: on Twitter or x the everything app or rate. My
Speaker 3: newstop business will be caught soon at ed Zitron. I'm
Speaker 3: also on blue Sky. You find me a zitron C I,
Speaker 3: t R O N.
Speaker 2: Well check ed out in any of those places and
Speaker 2: check us out here. You already found us once, so
Speaker 2: presumably you will not forget how to find us the
Speaker 2: second time until next time. You know, don't invest money
Speaker 2: in unregistered securities.
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