1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome back to it could happen here, a 2 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:16,400 Speaker 1: podcast about things falling apart, And speaking of falling apart, 3 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: when we're when we're talking about the crumbles, the slow 4 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: and sometimes rapid erosion of institutions in this country, nothing 5 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: is quite as relevant as the tech industry. 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: I'm Robert Evans. Obviously on the line with me is 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 2: Garrison Davis. And we also have someone new with us 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: today who's going to be talking talking tech, and particularly 9 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: talking about the n f T crash and some of 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: what that has to tell us about both how the 11 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: tech industry functions now and about how kind of our 12 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: economies of hype contribute to a state of what what 13 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 2: what what? Ed Zitron, who is our guest here, tends 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 2: to call the rot economy. Ed, welcome to the show. 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 3: Hi, thank you for having me. 16 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll just hand it over to you at this point. 17 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 3: So you may remember two years ago where kind of 18 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 3: ghoulish half wit libertarians emphatically told you that NFT's non 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 3: functibal tokens would change everything that people wanted to own 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 3: a unique digital object, and indeed that the said uniqueness 21 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 3: of said objects, say a picture of an ape or 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 3: an animated gift of a sports moment would be worth millions. 23 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 3: The hypeia was insane. Justin Bieber paid one point three 24 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 3: million dollars for a board ape, which is one of 25 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 3: ten thousand procedurally generated pictures of a monkey, and celebrities 26 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 3: like Milakounis and Lindsay Lohan would fund and create their 27 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 3: own NFT projects. In fact, multiple celebrities raised millions of 28 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 3: dollars for these kind of noxious little creations. Their logic 29 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: entirely hinged upon the idea that something being a one 30 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 3: of a kind somehow made it valuable, and that a 31 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 3: digital token connected to a picture of video is the 32 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,480 Speaker 3: same as say a rare baseball card or a comic book, 33 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: or the sense that owning part of a digital entity 34 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 3: like a game was somehow valuable. I personally do not 35 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 3: think owning a sword from World of Warcraft a unique 36 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 3: one means anything. I do not think that's meaningful in 37 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 3: any way. But listen, got a bit of advice for 38 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 3: anyone listening. When any one tells you to ignore your 39 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 3: eyes in your ears, it's the Duller voice in your 40 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 3: head that says, huh, that sounds really goddamn stupid or to, 41 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: of course, put a bunch of money into an unproven asset. 42 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: You should always try and work out how they're going 43 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 3: to get paid in the end. But nevertheless, it's important 44 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: to know the fundamentals of this crap, this noxious industry. Now, 45 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,959 Speaker 3: of course we're talking about cryptocurrencies. So these are tokens 46 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,239 Speaker 3: on a decentralized blockchain. In this case, a non fungible 47 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 3: token or so it's an NFTY is a unique digital 48 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 3: identifier on a blockchain like Ethereum or Polygon, one that 49 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 3: kind of be copied, substituted, or divided like a regular token. 50 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 3: Ownership in this case, who owns the NFT is based 51 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 3: on whoever owns the wallet. That said that the NFT 52 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 3: in question is actually stored, and meaning that if someone 53 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 3: tricks you into sending your board ape to somebody else, 54 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 3: they technically own it. These NFTs of images, say the 55 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 3: board Ape, yacht club, Pudgy Penguins, what have you, are 56 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 3: connected to images. So by which I mean you are 57 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: quite literally buying a jpeg, you are buying a tokenized jpeg. 58 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:37,560 Speaker 3: These images are kept on something called the Interplanetary File 59 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 3: System IPFS, and you have an IPFS address that attached 60 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 3: to each token. What's important to know about this is 61 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 3: this is another decentralized project where there's no real proof 62 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: that your IPFS address isn't going to disappear in ten years. 63 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 3: So you could end up buying one of these tokens 64 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 3: and be left with bugger or like I said, you're 65 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 3: effectively by buying a very expensive JPEG that may or 66 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 3: may not be an image of something in ten, fifteen, 67 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: twenty years, or even five years. 68 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 4: So like I used to buy a whole bunch of 69 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 4: digital games for my Nintendo Wii system, right, and these 70 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,080 Speaker 4: were not physical games, And now I cannot re download 71 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 4: any of these things even though I bought them, because 72 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 4: the digital system is just Nintendo is no longer supporting 73 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 4: it isause it's kind of like a similar mechanism here 74 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 4: in terms of there's like all this necessary internet infrastructure 75 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 4: to like host these digital assets, but we don't actually 76 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 4: control it infrastructure, right, So it's different than holding like, 77 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 4: you know, a disc or in the case of an NFT, 78 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 4: like an actual physical picture of a monkey. 79 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 3: What's really funny is the example you just gave is 80 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: one of the few examples of where NFTs could actually 81 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 3: be useful. 82 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 4: Huh. 83 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 3: Digital games right now are in this position where, like 84 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 3: you said, and you find this a lot with streaming 85 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 3: products as well, where you can buy something, you buy 86 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 3: a video game, you buy a movie, and you own 87 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 3: it on Apple TV. Apple has complete power to pull 88 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 3: that down. If indeed there was a non fungible token 89 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 3: that contained the video in question, that might be quite useful. 90 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 3: That might be really useful. In fact, unlike NFTs in general, 91 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,160 Speaker 3: which are not useful at all. You are just buying 92 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 3: a jpeg the leads to an image and owning this jpeg. 93 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: This NFT might get you inside a discord, perhaps a 94 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,360 Speaker 3: special discord of like minded people who have spent a 95 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 3: lot of money on something very silly. 96 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 4: Sounds like a party. 97 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 3: It's so good and it's it was really something. These 98 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 3: things have been around since at least twenty fourteen. I 99 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 3: think crypto Kitties was one of the original ones. You 100 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: could breed horrible looking cats. These horrible cats have sex 101 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: and create new horrible looking cats. Well you didn't get 102 00:05:54,880 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 3: to see the sex. Don't worry, Okay, it's the only 103 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 3: reason I invested. 104 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 4: Well, I let me google crypto kitty rule thirty four. 105 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 4: I'm sure. 106 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 3: I'm sure that there is a crypto kitty hen type, but. 107 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: Now make sure to put Reddit in the in the 108 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 2: search RaSE there. You gotta you're gonna get better results 109 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:15,559 Speaker 2: that way. 110 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 4: Will I get in trouble for sending these results in 111 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 4: the group chat? Will people get mad? 112 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 3: I feel nothing anymore? 113 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,280 Speaker 4: Yeah, honestly, there's not as much as I thought there 114 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 4: would be. I'm kind of disappointed. 115 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 3: Well there's a vampire. Yeah. So the thing about this 116 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 3: is the gold rush, this huge multi billion dollar NFT 117 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 3: industry that kind of popped and dropped in the last 118 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,919 Speaker 3: couple of years, was something created by a kind of 119 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 3: perfect storm of post lockdown financial hystory. You saw it 120 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 3: with like AMC and game stop stocks, you saw it 121 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 3: with crypto in general, and it was the sense that 122 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 3: you were getting in early on something and it kind 123 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,239 Speaker 3: of resembled in a funky way being babies baseball cards, 124 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: but also with the kind of stench of the fine 125 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: art industry. But I also think that during the pandemic, 126 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 3: and I'll get to a little more of this later, 127 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 3: people really got this defined sense of how unfair everything is, 128 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 3: how you can't just go to college anymore, you can't 129 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 3: just work really hard and get a mortgage, you have 130 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 3: to effectively find a way to cheat, and this seemed 131 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 3: like a cheat they had got in on early. The 132 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 3: problem is they didn't and I'll kind of get into 133 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 3: that later. But another part of it, the part that 134 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: really stank to me, was that they were selling this ugly, 135 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 3: obviously rotten dream that you were owning part of a 136 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 3: future media property being at the Yeah, like you were 137 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 3: going to be part of Disney or Marvel the board apes. 138 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: When you bought a board ape, you allegedly got the 139 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: rights to distribute it and build a show or merchandise. 140 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: And in fact, Seth Green bought an ape that he 141 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: tried to build a TV show around Classic twenty twenty 142 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 3: two idea building a TV show around NFT. 143 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 2: Oh you guys, did you guys see the show by 144 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 2: the way. 145 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 4: We waked in the first few episodes. 146 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: No, no, no, that was a different NFT show. 147 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, that was a different board ape show. 148 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 2: I can clarify here. There was a there was a 149 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 2: show called The Red Ape Family that was about an 150 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 2: adjacent property that Red Apes, but other NFTs. But then 151 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 2: Seth Green was also trying to make a show that 152 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 2: was like almost like a who framed Roger Rabbit where 153 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 2: it's a mix of like cartoons and like real background sets. 154 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 2: But it's just like about Seth Green, who is a 155 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: monkey as a bartender, like it looked like dog shit. 156 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 3: What's kind funny is someone scammed him out of that 157 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 3: ape so he had to pause. He had to pause 158 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:57,679 Speaker 3: production on his show This is the future of entertainment, folks, 159 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 3: because he didn't have the intellect property rights anymore. And 160 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: then he ended up having to pay one hundred grand 161 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 3: to get it back and the show never I cannot 162 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 3: find the show anywhere. But this is the thing putting 163 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 3: that aside. People genuinely thought they were buying like amazing 164 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 3: Fantasy fifteen, first appearance of Spider Man stuff like that. 165 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 3: They thought that they were buying something that would give 166 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 3: them access but also some degree of ownership over a 167 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 3: future IP And frankly, I can understand how they were 168 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 3: scammed because you had people like Alexis o'hanian, the founder 169 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 3: of Reddit, who threw his VC firm seven seven six 170 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: sunk fifty four million dollars into an NFT project called Doodles, 171 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 3: claiming in January of this year, twenty twenty three that 172 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 3: Diogles this year. This year. H In fact, now, to 173 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,200 Speaker 3: be clear, the funding was last year twenty twenty two. Okay, okay, 174 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 3: but he claimed this year. And to be clear, Doodles 175 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 3: is a collection of an NFTs and an associated cart 176 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 3: in that kind of looks like Adventure Time but significantly worse. Yeah, 177 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 3: that makes sense. Alexis said that Doodles wanted to build 178 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 3: the next generation of Disney and a whole world of 179 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 3: IP that is giving people a state and a sense 180 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 3: of ownership. Sure so, sure, buddy, yeah, exactly, Thank you, Alexis. 181 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 3: I one hunt. How does being rich feel? So to 182 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 3: be clear, what Doodles was is still it was a 183 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 3: collection of ten thousand NFTs of Doodles procedurally generated, like 184 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 3: most of these, and it's worth taking a step back here. 185 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 3: Why are so many of these projects ten thousand images? 186 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 3: It's because there's absolutely no creativity, not even a little. 187 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 3: They just is it's. 188 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 4: Like a is there like a false scarcity aspect which 189 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 4: is trying to like inflate value? Is that like another 190 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 4: reason for why they would have like these limited A matches, 191 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 4: because I know the original board ape ones were like 192 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 4: around around ten thousand as well at least initially. 193 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 3: Yes, there's always like a couple thousds ten thousand, but 194 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 3: when you take a step back and really think about it, 195 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 3: that's actually a huge amount. It isn't the scarce good 196 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 3: It isn't It may be to the people who are 197 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 3: pumping and dumping them, but ten thousand isn't creativity. There's what, like, 198 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 3: it's maybe thirty different spider men, so that's not ten 199 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 3: thousand of them, and none of these have a name, 200 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 3: none of these have a character. I will get to 201 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 3: the two characters and Doodles, because there are just two. 202 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 2: The more that you talk about this and just kind 203 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,120 Speaker 2: of based on my paying attention to it, I kind 204 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: of feel like part of what we're seeing is like 205 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: the intersection of two cultural myths, right. One of them 206 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: is like the myth about how I mean it's not 207 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 2: entirely myth, largely accurate about what happened with Apple when 208 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: it went public, right, and all of these hundreds of 209 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 2: like nerds who had just been like working class kids 210 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: who become worth hundreds of millions of dollars overnight, right, 211 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 2: which has become part of kind of like our our 212 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 2: cultural memory of like how tech is supposed to work 213 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 2: ever since. And then the other is like Star Wars, right, 214 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:22,079 Speaker 2: and the way in which George Lucas revolutionized capitalizing on 215 00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:25,560 Speaker 2: every silly idea you've ever had, Like a lot of NFT. 216 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 2: A lot of the NFT hype is based on the 217 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: belief that like you could be, you could you could 218 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 2: buy into the next like Glurf, stream Bow or whatever 219 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 2: fucking weird George Lucas character, and it could get a movie, 220 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,839 Speaker 2: you know, because yeah, it's all infinitely capitalizable. 221 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, the kind of Buckshittos of the world. Yeah, yeah, 222 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 3: I mean you're actually right as well, because I don't 223 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 3: know if you remember when episode one Star Wars Episode 224 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 3: one came out, they deliberately made the box to look 225 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 3: like the old Return and the Jedi figures, which were 226 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 3: now worth thousands. 227 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 4: A lot of money, a lot of money. 228 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 3: But there is that full scarcity aspect, and it is 229 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 3: like that, except even worse because there's less value to it. 230 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 3: Because when you buy a doodle, as you will, putting 231 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 3: thousands of dollars into something called a doodle, one might 232 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 3: wonder what exactly is the value of this, because doodles 233 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 3: do not actually convey any intellectual property. Board apes kind 234 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 3: of do the legalities muddy. You can merchandise your doodle 235 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 3: for up to one hundred thousand dollars of physical goods, 236 00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 3: so T shirts. You know why you would buy a 237 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 3: doodle T shirt? I'm not really sure, but you could 238 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 3: sell it. Just the theoreticals here are amazing. But Doodles, really, 239 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 3: at it's call, was sold on the idea that it 240 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 3: allowed you to steer the company to vote on the 241 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 3: future of Doodles, which is kind of similar to Board 242 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 3: Ape Yacht Club. You could get ape coin if you 243 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 3: had NFTs of the Apes or the Immute Apes, and 244 00:13:55,920 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 3: you could then vote in these votes about the future 245 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: of the Board eight Yacht Club, but not Yuga Labs, 246 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 3: who owns the Board eight Yacht Club. So really you 247 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 3: were just controlling a vague sense of nothing. In the 248 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 3: case of Doodles, you could vote on what they may 249 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 3: do in the future. It was never really obvious. 250 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 4: Was doodles A doos is a dow okay, okay. 251 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 3: And the funny thing to remember about almost all of 252 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 3: these as well, is not in the case of Doodles, 253 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 3: but in the case of like the bord Epe Yacht 254 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: Club and the Ape Chain, I hate this crap, and 255 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 3: Joyson Horowitz owns fourteen percent of all ape coin of 256 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 3: their initial drop. They own multiple cryptoproducts, large chunks of 257 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 3: these total tokens, and so they can control these votes 258 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 3: if they need to. But what's also important to know 259 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 3: is none of this stuff involves the actual goddamn company. 260 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 3: Nobody owns a thing. These decentralized autonomous organizations doos are 261 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,800 Speaker 3: always framed as this kind of democratic process, carefully leaving 262 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 3: out the fact that a democratic system with transactable votes 263 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 3: is by definition of goddamn kleptocracy. But on top of that, 264 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 3: you don't own anything. You don't have anything with these companies. 265 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 3: You don't get stock, you don't get anything. You just 266 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 3: have one of ten thousand images that may in ten 267 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 3: years not actually go anywhere. It's farcical. The only thing 268 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 3: dumber than that, however, is the fact that Doodles is 269 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 3: no longer an NFT project and will no longer cater 270 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 3: the speculators. According to a statement a much by the 271 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 3: co founder Jordan Poopy Castro Poopy is oh. 272 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 2: Wow, see this is where I'm putting you know what, Garrison, 273 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 2: I'm putting the whole company pension plane behind this guy, 274 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 2: Poopy's got to be the one who mix those cars 275 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: from now on. 276 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 3: You got to it's really got to suck as well. 277 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 3: If you were like a speculative investor in Doodles already 278 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 3: and you find out that your whole thing is what 279 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,040 Speaker 3: can be worthless because of a guy called Poopy, I 280 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:05,359 Speaker 3: think that that's that's just very special to me. Yea, yeah, continue, 281 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: I'll continue. So, just to be clear, less than the 282 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 3: year before this, according to their investor, this company was 283 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 3: positioned to continue to define the NFT industry and onboard 284 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,960 Speaker 3: millions to the blockchain and become one of the most inclusive, creative, 285 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 3: joyful media brands in Web three and beyond. This is 286 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 3: the same company that had now officially RUG called their 287 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 3: entire customer base. And by the way, if you'd have 288 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 3: invested at the time that the fifty four million dollar 289 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 3: funding round so towards the end of twenty twenty two, 290 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 3: you would have lost money. You would not have gained money. 291 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 3: There was no liquidity event that had given would give 292 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 3: you anything. Also important to recognize with so other than 293 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: Alexis o'hanian, the other investor in Doodles was FTX Ventures. 294 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 3: So in March of twenty twenty three, you kind of 295 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 3: sat down with your morning coffee and you read the 296 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 3: announcement from Jordan Poopy Castro and found out that your 297 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,520 Speaker 3: FTX back town ft project had lost about eighty five 298 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 3: percent of its value and now the company was not 299 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 3: backing you in any fucking way. 300 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, but I mean FTX is putting out Super Bowl ads. 301 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 4: They seem stable, they seem like, Alliam, that'd be fine. 302 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 3: What could happen? It'd be fine. But what's great about 303 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 3: this is it is probably one of the largest rug 304 00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 3: pools I've ever seen. And nobody is in trouble. Nobody's 305 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,199 Speaker 3: mad at Alexishanium Doodles sold people on a dream. A 306 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 3: stupid dream, but a dream, yes, yes, yes, very very 307 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 3: goddamn stupid one that you'd been investing in, participating in 308 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 3: the future of intellectual property and have some industry over 309 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 3: its future. You would theoretically, though obviously when you read 310 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,160 Speaker 3: this now it sounds dumb, and also when you read 311 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 3: it at the time, it's you were meant to be 312 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 3: buying into the next Disney, next Marvel. Yes, what was sold? 313 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 4: That is Another huge aspect is think there's like, I 314 00:18:01,119 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 4: think a lot of people who are like, you know, 315 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 4: grew up with like pop culture and want to take 316 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 4: part in like the creation of like culture and media. 317 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 4: But you know, Hollywood systems feels so foreign and unattainable. 318 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 4: So this thing comes up and this looks like like 319 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 4: a democratized way that you can like get in on 320 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 4: some like new version of what the entertainment like landscape 321 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 4: will be. And you're like, oh, this is this is 322 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 4: like my chance I can be one of ten thousand 323 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,399 Speaker 4: people to like contribute towards this next big, you know, 324 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,359 Speaker 4: cultural thing in ten twenty years. I mean, obviously that's 325 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:38,479 Speaker 4: like in retrospect, it's very clearly a scam for some people, 326 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 4: like probably myself and many people listening. Initially this sounded 327 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 4: like a scam, but it certainly was alluring for a 328 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 4: good deal number of people. I mean, I'm this is 329 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 4: kind of reminding me that there was this very similar 330 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 4: kind of dow big big failure around Dune. They were 331 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 4: wanting to put out. 332 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they want wanted to buy, they wanted to 333 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 2: buy the deck and the rights to Yodorowski's Dune, Yes yeah. 334 00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 4: And and and put out media and put it like 335 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 4: their own like animated series, which is funny because initially 336 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 4: they just they weren't even gonna bother with like the 337 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 4: intellectual property, which is really funny because you know, a 338 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 4: big part of of this this NFT stuff is like 339 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 4: you own the IP of each NFT character, right, And 340 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 4: as they as this kind of project progressed, they slowly 341 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 4: started to realize that what they've done was probably just 342 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 4: commit massive fraud, and they completely collapsed. Like this dune 343 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 4: like NFT dow project was being was being boosted by 344 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 4: a lot of like very mainstream publications. It was it 345 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 4: was extremely hyped up, which can lead people to like 346 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,479 Speaker 4: assume this is like a legitimate like entertainment project that 347 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 4: you could like participate in by buying this small little piece. 348 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:54,640 Speaker 4: Last year, very very clearly kind of fell apart. Yes, 349 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 4: was kind of pre predestined. 350 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:02,440 Speaker 3: And what's really sad about this is we can laugh 351 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 3: at these people. I'll get to this in a bit, 352 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 3: and we can laugh at these people. We should. It's 353 00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:10,199 Speaker 3: very funny, but at the same time, a lot of 354 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:15,119 Speaker 3: people got screwed here because they trusted in people like 355 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 3: Alexis Ohanian, founder of Unscathed. Despite the horrifying things that 356 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 3: Reddit has done. Alex Ohenian insanely rich, married to a 357 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 3: tennis star. God bless him. Hope they're happy. But nevertheless, 358 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 3: Alexis has managed to fairly easily escape all blame for 359 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:36,480 Speaker 3: the fact that he misled everyone with this and other things. 360 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 3: But this in particular because the dream of doodles. God, 361 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 3: that sucks to say out loud, by the way, the 362 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 3: dream of doodles was that you were buying one of 363 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 3: these ten thousand things, and that you'd be part of 364 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 3: a community and you'd be able to steer the doodle's movement. 365 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:57,040 Speaker 4: The doodles community is christ I know. The Doodles revolution 366 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 4: I think is more more accurate. 367 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:02,199 Speaker 3: And the doodle Easters, now that's not a term. 368 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 2: No, no, no, I like that. I like that doodle 369 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 2: least as doodlers. 370 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:11,200 Speaker 3: They're all the doodoos. Yeah, but you would be investing 371 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 3: in the future VIP, you'd have part of this and 372 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 3: you'd be you know what, put aside the money, put 373 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 3: aside all the cash, because they're not doing speculation anymore. 374 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,639 Speaker 3: It's not about that. Let's just focus on the community, 375 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,440 Speaker 3: which is dying, which is completely dead. I would argue 376 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 3: so fairly recently, Doodles had to remove the fifty quorum, 377 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,120 Speaker 3: which would require fifty percent of NFT holders to interact 378 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 3: with the project to push a vote through. They had 379 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 3: to remove that in say why they had to remove it, 380 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 3: and I guess because nobody gives a shit, because nobody cares, 381 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 3: nobody gives a rap fuck about any of this, and 382 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 3: then voted to appoint a founding Community Council to make 383 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 3: decisions about where the doodle bank, oh my god, Jesus 384 00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 3: Christies would be would be spent in the few So 385 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 3: the doodle bank was where some of the revenues went 386 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,479 Speaker 3: from the secondary sales of these NFTs, because the companies 387 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 3: always take a cart because let's seeking baby anyway. So 388 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 3: if you were interested in the community aspect of Doodles, 389 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 3: you're kind of shit out luck because they've now entirely 390 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 3: deleted their Visions and Guidelines document, which is the part 391 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 3: of the website that tells you how any of the 392 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 3: community shit works. And they nothing is happening right now 393 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 3: with them. There's nothing going on. This is the ninth 394 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,120 Speaker 3: most popular NFT project, and they have attempted to and 395 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:40,480 Speaker 3: indeed succeeded in removing their association with NFTs. Now one 396 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,880 Speaker 3: would think, okay, maybe they have a discord. Of course 397 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 3: they did find it eighty five thousand members, oh wow, 398 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:52,959 Speaker 3: Except it felt more empty than my discord, which has 399 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 3: six hundred people in it eighty seven hundred and sixty 400 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 3: members as of when I opened it, and the newest 401 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 3: stands section did not have a post in it since 402 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 3: August thirtieth, which was announcing that the Doodle's Crops collaboration 403 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: had sold out, terrible news to the least barkable people alive, 404 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,800 Speaker 3: and their other official channels really hadn't been updated since 405 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 3: mayor August. The General Hall channel, which is where everyone 406 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 3: was talking, was mostly just bots and people's saying the 407 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:29,199 Speaker 3: words Dude's rule, that's dods rule. No real communication. It 408 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 3: felt like several chat bots kind of what you know, 409 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 3: how you see oblivion or Skyrim MPC's walk up to 410 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 3: the other yea kind greetings to you. Imagine that with 411 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 3: NFT's eighty five thousand bloody people. I even tried to 412 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 3: I'm not going to say antagonize them, but I did 413 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 3: ask them, are you happy with your investment? No responses. 414 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 3: I was like, how'd you feel about? No response, someone 415 00:23:55,359 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 3: responded with Dude's rule once and it's insane because you 416 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,160 Speaker 3: won't believe this. The valuation of this company in their 417 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 3: fifty four million dollar funding round was seven hundred million 418 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 3: goddann dollars, and their chat room as the charm and 419 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 3: vibrance of a dying more. This is meant to be 420 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 3: the next generation of Disney, and yet it has no fans. 421 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 3: There are people who will shoot you to death for 422 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 3: insulting Spider Man. There are people who will scream at 423 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 3: you for not liking the latest Star Wars thing. These 424 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 3: are superfans. Yeah, there are people who will do that 425 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 3: with obscure video games you've never heard of. But for Doodles, 426 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 3: this barly billion dollar enterprise, the future of Disney. Not 427 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 3: one of these people cared anything about this. All it 428 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 3: was there's like, there are no superfans, no loyalists, no evangelists, 429 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 3: nobody excited, no one even expressing an emotion, Just a 430 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 3: bunch of freaks who got con saying GM every two 431 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 3: minutes or hours. Actually, it was so strange because I've 432 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 3: been in chatrooms since I was like eleven. I've seen 433 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 3: varying levels of chatrooms in various games even the smallest 434 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 3: community was kind of hopping. At some point, this then 435 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 3: had no life. It was so strange. 436 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 4: It's just like a digital ghost town. 437 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 3: And the reality is what I said earlier, there's ten 438 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: thousand of these goddamn things, these featureless, procedurally generated things. 439 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 3: There's nothing to them. These NFT companies, these ones that 440 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 3: allegedly want to replace Disney, they're incapable or unwilling to 441 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:40,680 Speaker 3: do anything approximating world building or law development. Lore Doodles, 442 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 3: which is worth seven hundred million goddamn dollars, which got 443 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 3: fifty four million dollars, has three characters that I can find. 444 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 3: There's hap Is cap Mellow, and there was another one 445 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 3: which I could not find a name for. There is 446 00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,440 Speaker 3: maybe ten minutes of footage in the years that this 447 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 3: thing was meant to exist. It's just so bizarre. It's 448 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 3: so utterly craven and half fast. It's people attack Disney 449 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,439 Speaker 3: and Marvel through Disney obviously and Star Wars that oh, 450 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 3: they're just oh, they're pushing this crap out. They're just 451 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 3: churning this shit out and saying people are buy anything. 452 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 3: In comparison, Disney are steadfast or teurs. They are creative 453 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 3: agents like Liken to Salvador Dally, they are the compared 454 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:36,680 Speaker 3: to the NFT people, they're gods, because even Disney's least 455 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 3: likable properties get more attention and have bigger fans than this. 456 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 3: There are Disney adults who would like crying and falling 457 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 3: on their knees when the lockdowns ended. Oh now these 458 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 3: people would care. Now, these people of Jordan. Poopy Castro 459 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 3: died tomorrow, nobody would shed a tear or even remember, apparently, 460 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 3: And it's just I think the way to look at this, 461 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 3: and especially Doodles, is that there is just within the 462 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 3: NFT world and actually within the tech industry, Writt Lafe 463 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 3: just this deep, deep seated loathing for creativity, storytelling and 464 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 3: the customer Pendleton Ward, who made the original Adventure Time 465 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 3: don't know if you remember, which is very clearly where 466 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 3: Doodles is ripped off from. Just compel them. They look 467 00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 3: very similar. He made it over a decade ago. It's 468 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 3: a five minute long video. He made it on his own, 469 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 3: without funding, without anything, and it's beautiful and it's weird 470 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 3: and it's great, and you're like, wow, I'm so glad 471 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,320 Speaker 3: this guy did this. Doodles, which has tens of millions 472 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:33,680 Speaker 3: of dollars sitting around, has put out seven goddamn minutes 473 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 3: of teasers and advertisements for brand collaborations. That's it. That's 474 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 3: all something about Farrell, something about crops, something about allegedly 475 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 3: Doodles having a cartoon. I don't goddamn know, but my 476 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,000 Speaker 3: theory is that none of this was ever about creating anything. 477 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 3: This was an attempt to go back to what you 478 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 3: were saying earlier, to recreate that sense that I just 479 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 3: bought the Star Wars toy that will be worth three 480 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 3: thousand dollars and ten years. That's all this was. It was. 481 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,719 Speaker 4: I'm pretty sure they're well on their way because I'm 482 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 4: looking at the Doodle site right now. You can buy 483 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:11,600 Speaker 4: a rug featuring my favorite Doodles character hap for one 484 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:12,400 Speaker 4: hundred dollars. 485 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: So are you serious that these not the focus is 486 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 3: selling a rug? 487 00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 4: Yes, yes, the crops are sold out. Unfortunately, I know, 488 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 4: I know you were really wanted to get those. They're 489 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 4: sold out. They were one hundred and twenty bucks. They're selling. 490 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,280 Speaker 4: They're selling little Vinyl toys for one hundred and eighty 491 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 4: five dollars. They have a cat mush, they have a 492 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 4: cat plush for forty bucks. They have a puzzle for 493 00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 4: twenty two dollars, and they finally have the before mentioned 494 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 4: a rug. 495 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's it's just wonderful. 496 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 4: It seems like a good investment. These things are selling 497 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 4: out fast. You want to you gotta, you gotta get in. 498 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 4: Your characters could be the next one. Yeah, But I. 499 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 3: Think that the ultimate thing is none of this was 500 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 3: about creating anything, that really is it. It was creating 501 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,880 Speaker 3: just enough to sell securities to suckers, and now all 502 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 3: of it is falling apart. The SEC just sued a 503 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 3: group of celebrities for an NFT cat cartoon called Stoner Cats. 504 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 4: Yeah. 505 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 2: No, I was really excited about Stoneer Cat. 506 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 3: I was really pumped up for seeing Stoner Cats. But 507 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: sadly the SEC changed the creator for unregistered offering of NFTs, 508 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: which are securities, and they raised eight million dollars. It's 509 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,719 Speaker 3: just very sad, very funny by the way that the 510 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 3: SEC now is to get in like garygansters to look 511 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 3: at Stoner Cats and say, all right, let's let's take 512 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 3: a look at this, or that's not good. How a 513 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 3: test is going to have fun with this? But I 514 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 3: think NFTs were and are probably one of the more 515 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 3: nihilistic parts of the industry. Yeah, because they did the 516 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 3: bare minimum to convince people. They made up all of 517 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 3: It's kind of like that episode of The Simpsons where 518 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 3: they remake Flanders's house and it's just a facier and 519 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:13,239 Speaker 3: it effectively. 520 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 2: Falls bearing poster. 521 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, exactly, and it's just enough to make people 522 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 3: believe this could be worth enough, because it's never really 523 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 3: obvious what actually makes something worth something. In the collectible's market, 524 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 3: there are established artists whom I personally own a bunch 525 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,480 Speaker 3: of original comic artwork, a lot of it by Arthur Adams, 526 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 3: and that market is fairly small because there's only so 527 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 3: much one man can do, and the value comes from 528 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,800 Speaker 3: what people are willing to pay. But in that case, 529 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 3: it's beautiful pencils and inks and it's gorgeously you want 530 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 3: on your wall. In this case, it's I'm buying something 531 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 3: that sounds like it might be valuable. There's not really 532 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 3: a fundamental community that sounds fine, but when you push 533 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 3: past even the first layer, it all falls apart. And 534 00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,880 Speaker 3: that's because, in my opinion, the NFT hype was just 535 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 3: a long conon customers in the media. It's a scam, 536 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 3: a scam where companies built the appearance of value without 537 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 3: ever actually generating anything. There's nothing to old some vinyl figures. 538 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 3: Who cares? Nobody's done. The board Ape Yacht Club has 539 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 3: the world's shittiest cartoon. They did a flash game called 540 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 3: Dookie Dash. 541 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 4: Yes I did, I did see Dookie Dash. What was 542 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 4: great was Game of the Year twenty twenty two. 543 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 3: Game of the Year twenty twenty two. Immediately, by the way, scammed, 544 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 3: just immediately someone broke it and they had to like, 545 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 3: they were like, what how did this happen? But that's 546 00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 3: the thing, you go. Labs worth a couple billion dollars, 547 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 3: Doodle's worth seven hundred million, nothing to them, not a 548 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 3: single interesting idea in any of them, but they existed 549 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 3: to con people into believing this completely thin view it. 550 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 3: And also the nihilistic part is he was talking about 551 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 3: people collecting art and collecting creative things, but without actually 552 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 3: ever seeing the value in the object. The objects creativity 553 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 3: was only as valuable as it was sellable, but not 554 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 3: even sellable to an enterprise. It was just like to 555 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 3: another person who could continue the chain of shit. 556 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 4: I think there is a large untapped market for this 557 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 4: though that Doodles is actually trying to exploit because I 558 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 4: just found probably one of the most epseetic things I've 559 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 4: discovered today, which is saying something because I've seen a 560 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 4: lot of a lot of best stuff today. Today's a 561 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 4: lot of workime footage is But there is a Doodle's 562 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 4: immersive experience in Chicago for children. Oh No, children create 563 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 4: their own Doodles and you can pay twenty eight dollars 564 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 4: per person to spend an hour in this Doodles themed 565 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,239 Speaker 4: art installation in Chicago. I'm looking at I'm looking at 566 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:07,640 Speaker 4: the availability. 567 00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,120 Speaker 2: There is yeahs book one for the team. 568 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,440 Speaker 4: There is ten slots open each day. All the slots 569 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 4: are open tomorrow, So I think we should get a 570 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,080 Speaker 4: flight like tonight. 571 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, right now. 572 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 4: Asap. 573 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's gonna sund I'm gonna send you this like 574 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 3: because it's the most one of the more disturbing things 575 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,080 Speaker 3: i've I've I've found. 576 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 5: I don't want to go to the Doodles camp every 577 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,160 Speaker 5: It's twenty twenty eight dollars per kid for one hour 578 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 5: of walking in this one Doodles themed room where first 579 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 5: your kid creates a Doodle's character. 580 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 4: So you can enter doodle world. You go through a 581 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 4: rainbow portal, you slide down rainbows, play in puffy clouds, 582 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,360 Speaker 4: and crash a spaceship and then you romp through a 583 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 4: whimsical world until your hours up, and then you leave 584 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 4: after spending twenty eight dollars per child. 585 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 2: It's like if a committee designed fucking meal wolf right, Yeah, yeah, 586 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,520 Speaker 2: it's it's a committee of people on thorazine. 587 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 3: But if you watch this video as well of this 588 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:18,360 Speaker 3: Doodle's world, here's the thing. You don't see anything of anything. 589 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 3: There's nothing rabow. There's a picture of the guy who 590 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,200 Speaker 3: I've already forgotten the name of Hop. 591 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 4: I can't forgot Hop's name. 592 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 3: I can't believe I've forgot Hop. 593 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 4: But its one and eighty five dollars to get a 594 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,240 Speaker 4: figure you have to remember. 595 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 3: God damn it. And but that's that's the thing. This 596 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:44,320 Speaker 3: is just it's a masterpiece of emptiness. It is a 597 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 3: meaningless thing. There is nothing to doodles. 598 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,240 Speaker 4: No, it's it's it's vapid. 599 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 3: There's nothing to any of it. And NFT Investors was 600 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:57,720 Speaker 3: sold this dream of kind of an access to wealth 601 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 3: or for both sides that like, oh the artist will 602 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:04,320 Speaker 3: make money because every NFT sale you get some royalties, 603 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 3: some residuals, which theoretically is a cool thing that when 604 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 3: an artist has a piece sort on someone else. I 605 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,320 Speaker 3: like that idea I always have, And in turn, by 606 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,239 Speaker 3: buying into this quote unquote art, you can generate your 607 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,320 Speaker 3: own wealth and you can be part of this positive 608 00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:27,200 Speaker 3: chain where everyone wins. But you're also early, so you 609 00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 3: get to feel smart. Except the problem is that you're 610 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,959 Speaker 3: more than likely left with a worthless piece of shit. 611 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 3: You're left with nothing. So fundamentally there will be and 612 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 3: I don't believe more than a couple thousand people made 613 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 3: any money on NFTs. Now, the majority of the people 614 00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 3: who bought NFTs are going to be left in the red, 615 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 3: and every new entrant is just another sucker to hopefully 616 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,960 Speaker 3: dump an investment onto. Because there are no NFTs that 617 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 3: have a fundamental value. There's not one. It's not notice 618 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,360 Speaker 3: that Disney, Marvel, none of these major things. Notice that 619 00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 3: none of them got involved. They didn't want to fucking 620 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 3: touch us. DC did a vague idea of buying comic covers, 621 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,880 Speaker 3: but even then it was half us because why why 622 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 3: would you do it? I've been saying this since twenty 623 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 3: twenty one that these things had no value, that it 624 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 3: was just an attempt to sell people this vague sense 625 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 3: of participation in a new economy. And in fact, there 626 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 3: was a study that came out an analysis of seventy three, 627 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 3: two D and fifty seven NFT collections. Ninety five percent 628 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 3: of NFTs on the market are now totally worthless. The 629 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 3: value of these collections is zero ethereum. Almost every single 630 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 3: person encouraged to invest them by The New York Times, 631 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,760 Speaker 3: by CNBC is a victim of a massive legal fraud 632 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 3: peddled by Internet charlatans like Alexishanian. I'm not saying he's 633 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 3: one of them, but there are people within the NFT 634 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 3: industry who also wash trade these things, which means that 635 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 3: they effectively sell them to themselves. And there's a there's 636 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:10,960 Speaker 3: actually increasingly impressive research that suggests that most NFT sales 637 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,760 Speaker 3: were just washtrading, just people pumping and pumping and pumping. 638 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 3: That's why Justin Bieber's ape that he bought for one 639 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 3: point three million dollars is worth about sixty grand. Now 640 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,719 Speaker 3: he'll be fine, but other people won't. And that's what's 641 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 3: really anger inducing. That's what fills my veins full of 642 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,759 Speaker 3: poison and if these were never worth anything, and the 643 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 3: majority of the industry is made up of fake goddamn 644 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 3: transactions and the people who will suffer on the majority, 645 00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 3: and the majority are not rich, The majority are not 646 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 3: anything other than desperate people who were manipulated. 647 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 2: It's like with fucking the FTX collapse, which is funny 648 00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 2: in a lot of ways, but also one of the 649 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 2: big bag holders wound up being like a teacher's pension fund. 650 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 2: Like that was massive, and obviously I think that like 651 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 2: an addition to go in after sam people regulators should 652 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 2: be looking at who the fuck made the call to 653 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:08,560 Speaker 2: put people's pension money and fucking brain genius kids gambling in. 654 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 2: But it is like there is like real harmed in 655 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 2: and that was like always the plan. Everyone who was 656 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 2: involved in pushing this is was trying to, Like the 657 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 2: whole game plan was create this critical mass of hype 658 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:31,760 Speaker 2: that broke people's ability to actually analyze what they were doing. 659 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 2: That just kind of made them panic and throw money 660 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 2: in because they felt like otherwise they were going to 661 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 2: miss out on their chance to retire. 662 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 3: Right. 663 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,040 Speaker 2: That was the whole thing, and that's why like the 664 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,239 Speaker 2: entire social media hype around this was all based on 665 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:48,200 Speaker 2: you're gonna stay poor forever if you don't get in 666 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:53,359 Speaker 2: on this right now, Like it's so disgusting and yeah, 667 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 2: just evil, evil people. 668 00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 3: And they were never a great investment. They were never 669 00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 3: in the future of IP. They're just a vehicle to 670 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 3: extract capital from retail investors, from regular people who to 671 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 3: your point, earlier, who didn't invest in Apple earlier or 672 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 3: Google early, they didn't get the chance, they didn't buy 673 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 3: the Star Wars toy. So this was their chance to 674 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 3: get ahead. And if these are just an exploitative scam, 675 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 3: they create just enough, it's a true scam as well. 676 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 3: They create just enough to get people in the door, 677 00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,680 Speaker 3: and just enough to make that investment defensible. They and 678 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 3: it honestly shared a lot of the language of the 679 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 3: Joe Oldstein's and conspiracy theorists and tell other teller evangelists 680 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 3: telling people to your point that oh, you're not gonna 681 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 3: make it, Oh have fun staying poor. What a noxious 682 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,960 Speaker 3: fucking thing to say, What a disgusting thing to say 683 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,960 Speaker 3: to someone. And what's funny is they use the other 684 00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,320 Speaker 3: scam that some companies in the tech industry used FDx, 685 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 3: for example, where they would raise rounds a venture capital 686 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 3: which gave the appearance of a real enterprise where things 687 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:57,000 Speaker 3: were actually happening, and then they sold them this dream of, oh, 688 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 3: you could own a piece of this, despite the fact 689 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,719 Speaker 3: that not a single god NFT actually granted stock options, 690 00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 3: voting rights, or anything else, because if they did that, 691 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:09,759 Speaker 3: it would immediately become a security, so they'd never do that. 692 00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 3: You don't have consequential votes. You don't have any industry 693 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,879 Speaker 3: over this industry. You just have a thing that can 694 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 3: be It may not be fungible, but the operating environment 695 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 3: for it is absolutely fucking fungible. If Doodles was truly 696 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 3: non fungible, they wouldn't be able to change the doodle's quorum. 697 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 3: They would just have to sit there and do nothing. 698 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 3: But what's also important to realize, and as I've said before, 699 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 3: but I'll say it a goddamn gain, is they really 700 00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 3: didn't try very hard. The board Ape Yacht Club, which 701 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 3: is the biggest one the ten thousand horrifying looking apes 702 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 3: owned by a company called Yuga Labs. They were valued 703 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:53,440 Speaker 3: at four billion dollars in twenty twenty two. Despite the 704 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,640 Speaker 3: fact that they said they were going to go Hollywood. 705 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,680 Speaker 3: They'd not actually created anything they did. They said they 706 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 3: were going to do a metaverse product. They sold NFTs 707 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,919 Speaker 3: of this metaverse thing that they've never shown, called Other 708 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:11,719 Speaker 3: Side I believe. Yeah, it crashed ethereum, but have not 709 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 3: in the. 710 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 2: Video game where you travel through a toilet looking for poop, 711 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 2: Dookie Dash. Yeah, this is the new Disney everyone, This 712 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:21,919 Speaker 2: is it. 713 00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 3: This is the new Disney. It's the metaverse that will 714 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,840 Speaker 3: never get built. It's the cartoon about monkeys and toilets 715 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,239 Speaker 3: that actually advertised Dookie Dash. The rich deep low of 716 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:36,799 Speaker 3: the bored a Yacht Club, by the way, is that 717 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 3: a monkey did a poo so bad that a key 718 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 3: came out to another dimension. But then the monkey somehow 719 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 3: put that key in a bit that the monkey drank, 720 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 3: and then the monkey did another poo where it put 721 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:49,520 Speaker 3: it into the sewer pipes, thus making it necessary for 722 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 3: you to pilot another monkey to go and get the key. 723 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 3: Very fucking stupid, very bad, ugly, like the designs suck. 724 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,359 Speaker 3: That's the other thing. These aren't even good looking. And 725 00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,720 Speaker 3: this is a company worth four billion dollars four billion dollars, 726 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 3: and all they've done is not make a metaverse, but 727 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,280 Speaker 3: make a lot of money, make a terrible series looking 728 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 3: of cartoons that may or may not go anywhere, and 729 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 3: an Eblum's World clone that got scammed almost immediately. Someone 730 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 3: found a way to exploit it immediately, because it's a 731 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 3: flash game. These are not creative enterprises. These are not 732 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,319 Speaker 3: entertainment companies. They're shell corporations for ill godden revenues for 733 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:36,400 Speaker 3: secondary market sales of ten thousand bullshit pictures that were 734 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 3: hyped up by the media who could not analyze it properly. 735 00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 3: They just saw the large amounts of money that were 736 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,719 Speaker 3: being made, the crooked ways, by the way, the ones 737 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 3: which were clearly pumped everyone covered them. World of Woman. 738 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,879 Speaker 3: Do you remember that one World of Woman? The NFT 739 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 3: That was my favorite one because there were so many 740 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,080 Speaker 3: guys in the crypto world who like, yeah, I bought 741 00:42:55,120 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 3: a World of Woman, entity support Woman. I love it. No, 742 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 3: it's so good, and it's because all of it's exploitative. 743 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,839 Speaker 3: NFTs are vehicles to exploit people, particularly Americans, who are 744 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 3: desperate and fairly questioning their place in the world that 745 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,160 Speaker 3: is continually turned upon providing basic social services and the 746 00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 3: ability for its citizens to thrive. There are a few 747 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 3: honest ways for the average person to accumulate wealth anymore. 748 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 3: It's nearly impossible to buy a house. Returns on the 749 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 3: market suck. Market's already confusing. And yeah, all of that's 750 00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,000 Speaker 3: quickly outplaced by the fact that you have student loans, 751 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:36,520 Speaker 3: health insurance, and inflation is making things more expensive than ever. 752 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 3: And I would argue that that is really the root 753 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 3: of what's so evil about crypto. Yeah, it's inherently exploitative. 754 00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 3: It is inherently linked in all of these ways to 755 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 3: religious dogma that you're buying into something that you're finally 756 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 3: part of, something meaning for, something that will grow, something 757 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:02,319 Speaker 3: that will make you in a way that your predecessors 758 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,000 Speaker 3: might have been just through living normally. This industry it 759 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:10,360 Speaker 3: took root because most people can't thrive. Everyone has to hustle, 760 00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 3: everyone has to struggle. You can't do the things that 761 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,480 Speaker 3: people even twenty years ago could. You can't work a 762 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:23,399 Speaker 3: normal job and buy a house anymore. You can't get 763 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:26,480 Speaker 3: a mortgage in many cases, you can't just go to 764 00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,440 Speaker 3: college and probably pay those loans off in five years. God, no, 765 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 3: that shit's going to follow you decades and nobody's helping you. 766 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:39,800 Speaker 3: And then along comes these along comes this very technological, 767 00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,360 Speaker 3: cool sounding, non fungible token, this thing where oh, I 768 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,399 Speaker 3: could be part of this new art market. I can 769 00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 3: be the smart one for once. I could be ahead 770 00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,160 Speaker 3: of everyone. And the people on the other side of 771 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,520 Speaker 3: that transaction are telling you everything you want to hear. 772 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:56,439 Speaker 3: Then the next Disney, then the next Marvel. You're gonna 773 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,560 Speaker 3: be part of something. You're gonna make it. That's what 774 00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,520 Speaker 3: you'll do if you buy into this. All of those 775 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,240 Speaker 3: crypto people are totally fine, all of them, the Winklevosses 776 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:12,479 Speaker 3: like Sohanian Mock Andresen, Chris Dixon, they're all doing great. 777 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:16,840 Speaker 3: They are multi millionaires several times over. The people on 778 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,960 Speaker 3: the other side are victims, victims of what I would 779 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 3: argue any just society would decide was a financial crime. 780 00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:29,839 Speaker 3: And I think that every single venture capitalist who put 781 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 3: money into these products and who pump them should be 782 00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,800 Speaker 3: held accountable. They won't because that is the modern tech industry, 783 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 3: because that is the modern government. There is no justice 784 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:46,720 Speaker 3: for the victims of NFTs. And it's really horrifying to watch. 785 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:49,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, I know, sometimes it can be hard to be 786 00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,600 Speaker 4: sympathetic for these folks because we imagine them being like, 787 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:58,080 Speaker 4: you know, freedra Reddit, you know, chriactures. But I think 788 00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:02,279 Speaker 4: if you have the capacity to feel sympathetic to like 789 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 4: former cult members, this is kind of the same thing. 790 00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:08,400 Speaker 4: This is like, this is it's really the same process. 791 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,960 Speaker 4: And a big part of actually beating cults is the 792 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,200 Speaker 4: ability to be sympathetic to former cult members. That it's 793 00:46:15,239 --> 00:46:18,239 Speaker 4: actually like a crucial part of getting people to like 794 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:20,040 Speaker 4: get past this sort of thing. 795 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's going to include not just the innocent, 796 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 2: but some people who did some pretty ugly things. And yeah, 797 00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 2: I think that's and that's hard critical. 798 00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,839 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I always try and push people to think 799 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,640 Speaker 3: of that because it is very easy to your point 800 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,000 Speaker 3: to look at the fedoras, to look at the wagon. 801 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:41,600 Speaker 3: Me guys, we're going to make it people and say 802 00:46:41,719 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 3: these are the majority. I would argue most people, and 803 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,000 Speaker 3: I'll say this haven't been in too many telegrams of 804 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:50,840 Speaker 3: too many rug pulled projects just watching the vast majority 805 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 3: of people are desperate. They just want their investment to turn. 806 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,719 Speaker 3: They just want something because there really isn't much way 807 00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:03,839 Speaker 3: out people that really isn't Most people get lucky, and 808 00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:06,640 Speaker 3: that's how they live what used to be, what used 809 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 3: to be just like the general purpose good life, two 810 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,439 Speaker 3: point four children, house, white picket fans just doesn't happen 811 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 3: for anyone anymore. And you're left with this. In a 812 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,640 Speaker 3: society where that happens, where there's so there are so 813 00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:28,319 Speaker 3: few opportunities to thrive for people, you get things like this, 814 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,960 Speaker 3: you get these massive cons and I think that it 815 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 3: will be hard for this to take root again. I 816 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:40,359 Speaker 3: don't think cryptos unscrewing people. I think that they will 817 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,120 Speaker 3: find a way to pump this in the future. 818 00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:48,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is why you should buy our new cool 819 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 2: Zone coin, you know, for just the price of forty 820 00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,920 Speaker 2: five dollars a coin you can ape in, and we're 821 00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 2: recommending right now just kind of transferring your whole four 822 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 2: oh one k or into cool Zone coins, which which 823 00:48:02,239 --> 00:48:05,040 Speaker 2: you can do by just sending it to our mailing 824 00:48:05,080 --> 00:48:07,160 Speaker 2: address in the form of a check. Well, we'll get 825 00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:07,920 Speaker 2: your coins to you. 826 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,000 Speaker 3: Don't worry, no problem, I will personally take care of 827 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:12,960 Speaker 3: it well ed. 828 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for putting this together. I think 829 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 2: it's important to kind of look at this sort of 830 00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,440 Speaker 2: stuff in retrospect, especially as the next con builds. 831 00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:22,040 Speaker 3: Up scheme. 832 00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:26,279 Speaker 2: You know, interest rates will drop eventually, and then there 833 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,200 Speaker 2: will be another attempt to fleece large numbers of people, 834 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,799 Speaker 2: possibly using Larry David, although he may have learned this 835 00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,120 Speaker 2: lesson this time. Ed, do you want to give the 836 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,440 Speaker 2: people some notes on where they can find you if 837 00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:39,920 Speaker 2: they want to read your stuff? 838 00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:44,080 Speaker 3: You can find letters your ed dot at as my newsletter, 839 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,920 Speaker 3: where's your red app? And you can find me on 840 00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,800 Speaker 3: on Twitter or x the everything app or rate. My 841 00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:53,399 Speaker 3: newstop business will be caught soon at ed Zitron. I'm 842 00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 3: also on blue Sky. You find me a zitron C I, 843 00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:57,360 Speaker 3: t R O N. 844 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,080 Speaker 2: Well check ed out in any of those places and 845 00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,440 Speaker 2: check us out here. You already found us once, so 846 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,840 Speaker 2: presumably you will not forget how to find us the 847 00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 2: second time until next time. You know, don't invest money 848 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,799 Speaker 2: in unregistered securities. 849 00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 850 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,960 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 851 00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,120 Speaker 1: coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 852 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,480 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 853 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,959 Speaker 1: find sources for It could happen here, updated monthly at coolzonemedia, 854 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,480 Speaker 1: dot com, slash sources, Thanks for listening.