1 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: It's that time, time, time, time, luck and load. 2 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 2: So Michael Verie Show is. 3 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: On the air. 4 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 2: world he didn't exist. 6 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 3: You know, the misinformation about vaccines and associating certain people 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 3: like myself or Fauci having malign in tenta vaccines. That 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 3: was most acute in the United States. But the pandemic, 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 3: which you would have thought, wow, global health research to 10 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 3: talking about health being ready for the next pandemic. You know, 11 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 3: when you've got millions of deaths, isn't that You know, 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 3: it's sad, it's tragic that, isn't he at least there 13 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 3: are a benefit that health is on the agenda. Sadly, 14 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 3: it's a topic nobody wants to talk about because it 15 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 3: was painful. 16 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,639 Speaker 2: You know, it's over. Let's move on from that. 17 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 3: We should have free speech. But if you're inciting violence, 18 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 3: if you're causing people not to take vaccines, you know, 19 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 3: where are those boundaries that even the US should you know, 20 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 3: have rules. 21 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,199 Speaker 2: And then if you have rules. 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 3: You know what is it is there some ai that 23 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 3: encodes those rules because you have billions of activity and 24 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 3: you know, if you catch it. 25 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: A day later the harm is doue. 26 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 3: The Gates Foundations very involved in vaccines, the invention of 27 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 3: new vaccines, funding vaccines, and we're very proud that through 28 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 3: joint efforts like Bobby, that saved. 29 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 2: Tens of millions of lives. 30 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 3: So it's someone ironic to have somebody turn around and say, no, 31 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 3: you know, we're using vaccines to kill people or to 32 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 3: make money, or we started the pandemic. Even some strange 33 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 3: things like that, I somehow want to track, you know, 34 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 3: the location of individuals because I'm so deeply desirous to 35 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 3: know where everybody is. I'm not sure what I'm going 36 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 3: to do with that information. 37 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 4: Only gotten three shots total, only been boosted once. 38 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: I guess we have immunity for a little while, but 39 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 3: when you decide to get boosted again. Yeah, so an 40 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 3: infection really get a high viral load would be like vaccination, 41 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 3: but you know, to be safe every six months. Now 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,560 Speaker 3: you're probably going to be vaccinated. As we get more data, 43 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 3: they might even make that. 44 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 5: Shorter for people or you know, say sixty or over 45 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 5: seventy where the duration seems to be a bit lower. 46 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 5: So we're in for ongoing vaccination to stay absolutely safe. 47 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 5: So Lenna and I wondered whether providing new medicines and 48 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 5: keeping children alive would that create more of a population problem. 49 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 5: What we found out is that as health improves, families 50 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 5: choose to have less children. Now eleven billion people still 51 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 5: a lot, but the good news is that the faster 52 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 5: we improve health, the faster family size goes down, and 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 5: so we feel great about saving those lives. 54 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 4: One of the most powerful tools, and a person like 55 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 4: Bill Gates has messaging experts around him, one of the 56 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 4: most powerful tools you can use. 57 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 2: The ultimate gaslight. 58 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 4: Is not to tell someone that what they see in 59 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 4: front of them is not there, but to make a 60 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 4: joke about it. If we see that you, Bill Gates, 61 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 4: are trying to collect every bit of data on us, 62 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 4: including our medical data. If we see that you are 63 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 4: an evil human being, then to a friendly audience, you say, well, since. 64 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,160 Speaker 2: I apparently want to know where everybody is at all times, 65 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 2: and the dutiful little audience. 66 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 4: Of people who've shown up for the conference, they chuckle 67 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 4: along because white liberals love to make the rest of 68 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 4: America out to be wackos. And he goes like this, yeah, well, 69 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 4: I mean, I guess Joe Biden is what is is 70 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 4: he demented? Now? 71 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 2: Is is he in such decline that he doesn't. 72 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: Know where he is? 73 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:19,400 Speaker 2: You crazy, maga people. The minute he's out the door. 74 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 4: Jake Tapper, who's saying that, writes a book which becomes 75 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 4: a best seller to say you were right, In fact, 76 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 4: writes hundreds and hundreds of pages to say you were right. 77 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 4: He just left out three words, you were right. It's 78 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 4: as if this is a revelation. But it's not a revelation, 79 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 4: and it wouldn't be to anyone who's actually objectively watching 80 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 4: what's happening in this country. Now, study after study after 81 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 4: study after study or showing the COVID shot was not 82 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 4: a vaccine, It did not have any of the supposed 83 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 4: benefits of a vaccine, It did not prevent the spread, 84 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 4: it was not an anti contagion. And guess what, it 85 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 4: killed a lot of people. The spike proteins were dangerous. 86 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 4: The mRNA is dangerous. What was approved for use in 87 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:22,279 Speaker 4: the United States as a vaccine is not what was 88 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 4: used in the United States. And by the way, the 89 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 4: boosters were even more dangerous as they told us to 90 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 4: take them. And there you were, you hayseed hillbilly, What 91 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 4: are you having medical opinions about You're not a doctor, 92 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 4: you're not an expert. 93 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 2: Who do you think you are? 94 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 4: You Middle America breeder telling us the shot doesn't work. Well, now, 95 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 4: of what are we finding out shot didn't work? Telling 96 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 4: us the shot deadly because your sister in law died 97 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 4: from it and your nephew died from it. 98 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: Now we're finding out it was deadly. 99 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 4: The greatest gaslight is not to deny something is happening, 100 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 4: you can't do that when it's out there, but to 101 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 4: ridicule anyone who would believe. 102 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 2: What is right before your very eyes. 103 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:23,280 Speaker 4: This is what makes this moment so awkward, that we're 104 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 4: being told all that Jeffrey Epstein stuff out real. 105 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 2: No, no, that was real. Oh no, no, it was real. 106 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 2: Uh huh, that's all from Obama and Biden. 107 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 4: Well whoa wait what but Pam BONDI said, but what 108 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 4: And now we have a real. 109 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: Real moment. Do we just move on and move past. 110 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,239 Speaker 3: What it's like to be you know, a real man. 111 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 2: I have never met someone so wonderful. 112 00:06:58,640 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: I call him Rit the Mark. 113 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 4: There's a crazy story in politics that when it's not 114 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 4: front page news, you forget about it. But people have 115 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 4: to go on and live those lives. You know, you 116 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 4: probably don't think about January sixth all day every day. 117 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 4: Their people went to prison when we stopped thinking about it, 118 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 4: and they're stuck in prison. Their lives are changed forever. Well, 119 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 4: there's a story about a guy named Doug Mackie. There's 120 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 4: no reason you would know who Douglas Mackey is or 121 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 4: you did once because he's been on our show before. 122 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 4: But he did something that a lot of us do. 123 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 4: He made a joke. He had some fun online. You know, 124 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 4: there's a meme that goes, I'm going to tell my 125 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 4: kids that this is and then you make up the 126 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 4: other one and it's you know, Hillary Clinton, but it's 127 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 4: a picture of Marilyn Monroe. 128 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:53,080 Speaker 2: It's it's silly things, fun things. The Internet. 129 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 4: It's a whimsical place, and we all get that it's 130 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 4: a whimsical place, and we don't take it too seriously, 131 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: we don't take it literally. Well, there was the case 132 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 4: of a fellow named Douglas Mackie, who's going to be 133 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 4: our guest, who went to prison. The guy went to 134 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 4: prison for the most absurd thing you can imagine. Now, 135 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 4: when I tell you this story, you're gonna say, Michael, 136 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 4: there's more of that story. 137 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: There's no way that. 138 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 4: Really happened, and you would normally be right, except I 139 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 4: know everything about this story, and what happened really happened, 140 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 4: and this should frighten you, this should infuriate you, and 141 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 4: this should call you to action to the kind of 142 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 4: people that we're dealing with. But the good news is 143 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 4: a federal appeals court on Wednesday throughout the conviction. Now 144 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 4: he doesn't get his time back. Of the individual to 145 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:59,160 Speaker 4: whom this happened, Douglas Mackee, with that introduction sufficiently vague 146 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 4: so that you can take the story better than I could, 147 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 4: why don't you tell us what happened in twenty sixteen, 148 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 4: and I guarantee you thirty percent of people aren't going 149 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 4: to believe this really happened. 150 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me on. 151 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 6: Yeah, So in twenty sixteen, you know, I was just 152 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 6: having some fun with the whole Trump movement, sharing memes 153 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 6: and links and all that kind of stuff, and shared 154 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 6: a meme that said you could text your vote to 155 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 6: five nine nine two five for Hillary Clinton, and so 156 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 6: Clinton supporters could avoid the lines stay home. And so 157 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 6: this was obviously just a good natured joke, there was 158 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 6: no actual attempt to get people to, you know, fail 159 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 6: to vote. And four years later, during right after Joe 160 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 6: Biden was inaugurated in twenty twenty one, the FBI came 161 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 6: knocking on my door and arrested me for posting this meme. 162 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 6: They said it was part of a grand conspiracy to 163 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 6: steal votes. And so this is a battle I've been fighting. 164 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 6: I was convicted in twenty twenty three, and like I said, 165 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 6: a week ago Wednesday, the appeals court throughout the conviction, 166 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 6: recognizing that this was there, that there was no grand conspiracy. 167 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 2: So let's go back. 168 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 4: This happens during the twenty sixteen election cycle, right exactly, 169 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 4: and you, I chuckled. I mean, all these years later, 170 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 4: I still think it's funny. And so you post a 171 00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 4: meme and tell exactly what that meme said. Again, I'm 172 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 4: gonna ask you to repeat some things because some folks 173 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 4: may be driving and they're not looking at it. So 174 00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 4: tell exactly what the meme said. 175 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 6: Absolutely, it said, avoid the line, skip the line, avoid 176 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 6: the line, stay home, and text your vote for Hillary 177 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 6: Clinton to five nine nine two five. 178 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: Okay, how did you come up with that number? 179 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:49,839 Speaker 6: So actually the funny thing is, and this is part 180 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 6: of the reason why the conviction was tossed out. This 181 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 6: was a meme that was floating around the internet. I 182 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 6: just saw it on a website and shared it over 183 00:10:58,960 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 6: on Twitter. 184 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: So I didn't even make the meme. 185 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 2: Oh wow, did we ever find out who made the meme? 186 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: No, we don't even know. 187 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 4: So you find a meme which I still find so funny. 188 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: You know one of the jokes we tell every year. 189 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 4: Listeners will send this to me every year, and let's 190 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 4: say election day is November fourth, and they'll say, Michael, 191 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 4: don't forget to tell the Democrats to vote on election 192 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 4: day November fifth. 193 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 6: Ha. 194 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: Ha, That's basically what you just did. 195 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 6: Exactly exactly Age All jug Republicans vote on Tuesday, Democrats 196 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 6: vote on Wednesday. 197 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, and Republicans vote once and Democrats vote from the graveyard. 198 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 2: So that happens. Do you have any reason. 199 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 4: To believe that any problem is going to occur that 200 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,520 Speaker 4: happens in the fall of twenty sixteen. Is there anything 201 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 4: that comes to your attention that says, oh, well, they're 202 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 4: taking this out of context. 203 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 6: So I had no idea at all that they were 204 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:08,840 Speaker 6: going to come knocking on the door for these memes. 205 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 6: It's funny enough. In twenty eighteen, I did get a 206 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 6: visit from the FBI. They asked me if I knew 207 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 6: about a guy who I used to help on his 208 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 6: congressional campaign, and that's but I had no idea that 209 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 6: two years later they were going to come over this meme. 210 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: I had no clue. 211 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 4: So tell me a little more about who those people 212 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 4: are and how that came to the attention of the FEDS. 213 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 214 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 6: So, you know, the Democrats, they just couldn't believe that 215 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 6: Hillary Clinton could possibly lose an election fair and square. 216 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 6: So they had this idea that Russia acted the election, which. 217 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:47,119 Speaker 1: Was complete nonsense. 218 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:52,200 Speaker 6: And so Senator Amy Klobuchar blew this meme up on 219 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 6: a big poster board, put it on the floor of 220 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 6: the Senate Committee or whatever, and she was looking at 221 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 6: it and saying, this is a selony, this is a 222 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 6: cry this was Russia or Russia did this. So they 223 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 6: actually had it in their minds that this was some 224 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 6: sort of some uh, this was part of some greater 225 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 6: Russian conspiracy to hack the election. This mean that very 226 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 6: few people even saw and nobody got tricked by. 227 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 4: How do we know nobody was tricked by it. Not 228 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 4: that anyone being tricked makes what you did a criminal offense. 229 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 2: But how do we know that? 230 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: Oh? Good question. 231 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,800 Speaker 6: So the FBI actually went around the district where they 232 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 6: charged me with the crime knocking on people's doors who 233 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 6: had texted the number, because they had a record of 234 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 6: everybody who texted the number, and they couldn't find a 235 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 6: single person. So if that person exists that actually got 236 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 6: tricked by the meme, we have no idea if they're 237 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 6: even out there. There's no evidence that anyone got fooled 238 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,040 Speaker 6: by the meme. And there were over four thousand, almost 239 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 6: five thousand people texted the number, but that was mostly 240 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 6: after the meme got shared on CNN and BuzzFeed and saying, 241 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 6: oh look what these evil Republicans are doing. 242 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: They're trying to track voters. 243 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 6: So they actually went to the FBI tried to find 244 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 6: somebody who could could testify on a witness standard. They 245 00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 6: were fooled, couldn't find a single soul. 246 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 4: And what efforts did they make I'm assuming you used 247 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 4: this in your defense. What efforts did they make to 248 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 4: find those. 249 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: Oh? 250 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, they actually hold on right there. So Douglas Mackie 251 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 4: hold on right there. The reason we're talking to Douglas 252 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 4: is that this conviction, after these years, has now been 253 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 4: thrown out. 254 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 2: So there is in that sense a good result. He 255 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: doesn't get all. 256 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 4: That time hassling money back, but we'll continue our conversation 257 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 4: with him. You know, this is intended to frighten people 258 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 4: away from political activity. 259 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 2: That's what this is intended to do. Coming back. 260 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: And listen to the Michael Berry Show. 261 00:14:58,760 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 4: Good not. 262 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 2: Douglas. Maxi is our guest. 263 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 4: Here's a guy just going about his business in twenty 264 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 4: sixteen who, like a lot of other people, I'd say it, 265 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 4: like a lot of other young men, but we all 266 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 4: do it is goofing around. You know, hey, election day 267 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 4: is and you give the day after the election. A 268 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 4: lot of people do this. Humor is how we get 269 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 4: by the day. It's how we avoid the drudgery. It's 270 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 4: how we connect with each other. What was intended to 271 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 4: be a funny meme, whether it was taken as a 272 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 4: funny meme or not, Hey, skip the lines. 273 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 2: You don't have to go on election day. 274 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 4: Just cast your vote at and here's the number pound 275 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 4: five nine, nine to five or whatever it is. And 276 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 4: so then they come and they start harassing this guy. 277 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 4: So this occurs during the Trump presidency. This week his 278 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 4: conviction has been thrown out, finally after all these years. 279 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 4: So then that's twenty eighteen. Do you ever hear from 280 00:15:58,520 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 4: the Feds again after that? 281 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: Douglas? In between then and twenty twenty one. 282 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: So yeah, in twenty eighteen, they came knocking on my door. 283 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: Asked them if I. 284 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 6: Knew about a congressional candidate. 285 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: But it had nothing to do with that, and I don't. 286 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: I don't make a habit of talking to him anyway, 287 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: so I didn't even talk to him. 288 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 4: So how did they come? They came and knocked on 289 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 4: your door, They called you, they emailed you. 290 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: What did they do? 291 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 6: Yeah, they knocked on my door at seven am in 292 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 6: the morning, before I. 293 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,080 Speaker 2: Went to work, So you just stayed inside and didn't bother. 294 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 6: So I talked to him and I said, you know, 295 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 6: you're gonna have to talk to my attorney. And then, 296 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 6: well I didn't have an attorney, but I found someone 297 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 6: that would talk to him, and then nothing ever came 298 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 6: of that. 299 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 2: You're a good bluffer. I like your style. 300 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 6: I really like you, said, well, it was a real attorney. 301 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 6: I found an attorney. Let's just put it that way, okay. 302 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 4: But when you tell them from outside the door, when 303 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 4: you're inside, you'll have to talk to my attorney. If 304 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 4: they had said, can we get that person's name, you 305 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 4: don't have one. 306 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 6: No, I took down their business card and said I'd 307 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 6: put him in touch with them. So I took the 308 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 6: business card, gave it to this attorney that I was 309 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 6: referred to, and he called them up, and like I said, yeah, 310 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 6: we never even met with them. 311 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 2: All right, So then do you figure the issue is dead? 312 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 6: So yeah, I figured the issue was dead. But the 313 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 6: only problem is when we're talking about federal law, there's 314 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 6: a book called three Felonies a Day. So once they 315 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 6: came knocking in twenty twenty one and arrested me, I 316 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 6: just know how they can manufacture stuff out of thin air, 317 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 6: so you know, but I had no idea it was 318 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 6: going to be over this one meme that kind of 319 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 6: forgot about to be quite. 320 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,600 Speaker 4: Honest, and so tell me about the day they come 321 00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 4: and arrest you. Where are you, Where are you in life? 322 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 4: Were you physically? 323 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 2: How does it go down? 324 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 6: So I had moved down to Florida because I originally 325 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 6: from Vermont, lived in New York City for some years 326 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 6: and I moved down to Florida in twenty eighteen. So 327 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 6: they showed up and knocked on the door. We got 328 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,520 Speaker 6: an arrest, We got an arrest warrant. You're under arrest. 329 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 6: The first words out of my mouth were for what. 330 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 6: There were the two FBI agents working on the case. 331 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 6: There were two local ones coming along to actually make 332 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 6: the arrest. Something about jurisdic shod And they bring along 333 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 6: a couple of local police too. 334 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: So here we are. 335 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 6: We got a I don't know eight to ten law 336 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 6: enforcement officers all over this. Meame and they put me 337 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 6: in the They put me in the cuffs and in 338 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 6: the you know, the police suv there and there I 339 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 6: am going to the West Palm Beach County West Palm 340 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 6: Beach Federal Courthouse. 341 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,399 Speaker 2: Did they cuff you in front of you or behind you? 342 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:54,639 Speaker 1: So? 343 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, they cuffed me in the behind. And then once 344 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 6: they they put me in the car, they let me 345 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:02,439 Speaker 6: switch the cuffs to the front. 346 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. 347 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 4: People that don't know, it's very uncomfortable to be cuffed 348 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 4: behind you. My brother was a law enforcementster for over 349 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 4: thirty years, and he said, you know the way you 350 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 4: treat a person when they've been arrested says a lot 351 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 4: about whether you think they're guilty, whether you know if 352 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 4: you if you arrest Osama bin Laden, you're putting his 353 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 4: hands behind his back and you're putting it pretty tight 354 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 4: because you're pissed off at him. But if you're arresting 355 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 4: Donald Trump for what you think is a political crime, 356 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 4: you're putting the cuffs real loose and in front of him, 357 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 4: so it's maximum comfort. 358 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 2: So you're thrown in jail and then. 359 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 6: What so, Yeah, I was thrown in the holding song. 360 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 6: It's funny you mentioned that the local guys, the local 361 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 6: left guy, it's that weren't working the case. They took 362 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 6: pretty good care of me. They let me switch the 363 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 6: cuffs to the front and you know, give me some 364 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 6: water in the car, and I was once I got 365 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 6: to the to the courthouse. 366 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 1: What they do is they turn you over to the 367 00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 1: custody of US marshals. 368 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 6: They take the cuffs off your wrists, and they put 369 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 6: you in leg irons. I was put into a holding 370 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 6: cell and it took a little bit longer than usual 371 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 6: because the COVID protocols that they had, so you know, 372 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 6: they put you in a mask. 373 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: And all this stuff. 374 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:22,679 Speaker 6: So I was sitting in that holding cell for an 375 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,399 Speaker 6: hour or two waiting on my arraignment. And instead of 376 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,480 Speaker 6: going before a judge, you know, you go, you go 377 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 6: before a judge on a. 378 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: Zoom call during COVID. 379 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: And then. 380 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 6: And then so they said here's your charges. They let 381 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 6: me out on a signature bond where all you have 382 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 6: to do is sign a signature, and they and then 383 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 6: when they took the. 384 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: Leg irons off me, they slapped the criminal complaint in 385 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 1: my hand. 386 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 6: That was the first inkling I had gotten that this 387 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 6: was all about a meme that was posted, like I said, 388 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 6: in twenty sixteen, and I couldn't believe it. Thirty page 389 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,600 Speaker 6: criminal complaint that I'm reading and a completely just fabricated, 390 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 6: concocted like the way that they had basically assembled the evidence. 391 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it was complete, fartical. 392 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 4: And the energy they're putting into prosecuting you when so 393 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 4: many other things aren't prosecuted. It's a fake case. It 394 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 4: takes a lot of energy. 395 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 2: Do you what happens? Do you plead? Do you go 396 00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 2: to trial? What happens? 397 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:29,640 Speaker 1: Yeah? 398 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 6: So I fought the charges. I was lucky enough to 399 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 6: do some fundraising, because God knows, I had no money 400 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 6: at the time, so I put all the money I 401 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 6: could into hire a lawyer, and then we fundraised a 402 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 6: lot of it because people saw this case for what 403 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 6: it was, so we were able to raise quite a 404 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:47,880 Speaker 6: bit of money, and I was one of the first 405 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 6: political prisoners. 406 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 1: Of the Biden regime. 407 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 6: In addition to the Jay six ers. But unlike the 408 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 6: J sixers, they were working on my investigation long before 409 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 6: J six So I fought the case. We went to trial, 410 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 6: and we argued time and time again a number of 411 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 6: things that they brought the case in the wrong jurisdiction. 412 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 6: They didn't have any evidence of intent, that this was 413 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 6: actually intended to fool voters, and we argued that there 414 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 6: was no evidence that I agreed with any of the 415 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 6: people that they were calling my co conspirators who were 416 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 6: in chat groups making these memes that I wasn't even 417 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 6: involved with. And so we argued that and then the jury, 418 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 6: believe it or not, took four and a half days 419 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 6: to come to a verdict over a single count. They 420 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 6: deadlocked twice, and the judge read them something called an 421 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 6: allen charge, which is basically like all right, go back 422 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 6: in there. Please come up with a vertict. Please do 423 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 6: your best. You know, we spend a lot of time 424 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,160 Speaker 6: and energy here. They finally came back with a conviction 425 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 6: right after lunch on Friday, which I think is a 426 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 6: typical And that. 427 00:22:58,000 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: Year, which was twenty twenty three. 428 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 6: Later on that year, October twenty twenty three, I was 429 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:05,960 Speaker 6: back in New York for sentencing. 430 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: My wife went. 431 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 6: Into emergency c section, so I did miss the birth 432 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 6: of my first son, and I was sentenced to seven 433 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 6: months in federal prison. 434 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: Oh, Douglas, I've been through the ringer. 435 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 4: I'm struggling to process this. Can you hold with me 436 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 4: for just one more segment? Yes, sir, I think it's 437 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 4: important for people to understand you weren't just wrongfully charged 438 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 4: and wrongfully convicted of thing. It's important for people to 439 00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 4: understand the real human toll. 440 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 2: Something like this takes Jackie. Where's Jackie? 441 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 4: A crash that killed Congresswoman jackiell Or Smoker. 442 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 2: Here, Douglas Matthew as our guest, and he just ruined 443 00:23:59,200 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 2: my day. 444 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: He was. 445 00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: Goofing around like we all do. 446 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 4: Twenty sixteen, he makes a meme, Hey, Democrats, skip the 447 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 4: line to vote for Hillary Clinton. This is Clinton versus 448 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 4: Donald Trump the first time. Just text your vote to 449 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,920 Speaker 4: this number star. It's a joke. Only an idiot would 450 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 4: be fooled by that, and nobody was, as we find 451 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 4: out later in court. Then in twenty eighteen, the Deep 452 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 4: State comes to his door and they are trying to 453 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 4: intimidate him. He refuses to talk to him. Then in 454 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 4: twenty twenty one they show up. They arrest him for 455 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 4: a meme in twenty sixteen, that's a joke. Nobody was hurt. 456 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 4: Then they take it to trial. You know, he said 457 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 4: earlier that the reason that they got a verdict on 458 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 4: Friday afternoon, before the weekend, that's typical. The reason that's 459 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 4: typical is the jury doesn't want to hang around, They 460 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 4: don't want to be back on Monday, so they go 461 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 4: ahead and agree when they wouldn't. So you get people 462 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 4: to capitulate. Now you're in trouble. So he's going to 463 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 4: prison for seven months, misses the birth of his child. 464 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 4: Good grief, the cruelty. All right, so you go to 465 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 4: prison for seven months. Tell me how that was. 466 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 6: So Actually, I got I was fortunate that the Second 467 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 6: Circuit Court saw through the case right from the beginning 468 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 6: because the judge sentenced me to seven months federal prison 469 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 6: in October twenty three. 470 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: Now she thought she was being nice. 471 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 6: She said, all right, you can report after the holidays 472 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 6: January eighteenth, twenty twenty four. And what happened was, because 473 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,680 Speaker 6: of the strength of the appeal, we appealed her decision 474 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,480 Speaker 6: to not give bond. We moved for bond for bond 475 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 6: pending appeal because obviously I'm not a flight risk, I'm 476 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 6: not in danger to the community, and we have a 477 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 6: very strong appeal. So it's not like in in the 478 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 6: Second Circuit, at least, bond pending appeal is not. 479 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: At the discretion of the judge. 480 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 6: If you meet one of four different criteria, then you 481 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 6: are you are granted bond penning appeal. You are entitled 482 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,200 Speaker 6: to it. And she messed up as well as well 483 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 6: as all the other stuff she messed up at the trial, 484 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 6: which I could talk to you all day about. And 485 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 6: so the Second Circuit granted the bond. So I've been 486 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 6: out on bond since October. I've been out on bond 487 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 6: the whole time, actually, but I was out on an 488 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,119 Speaker 6: appeal bond ever since the sentencing. 489 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 4: So you didn't you didn't end up going to prison. 490 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 4: You've been waiting to go to prison exactly exactly, and 491 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 4: then you live your life. Nobody wants to hire you. 492 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 4: You can't start a business. You don't know if at 493 00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 4: some point you're going to be you're in a purgatory. 494 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, you're in purgatory. 495 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 6: I was fortunate that I already had a business self employed, 496 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 6: so I was very fortunate in that respect that I 497 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 6: didn't need help paying living expenses. But you know, we 498 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,680 Speaker 6: were fundraised for everything else, and it was very difficult. 499 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 6: Like I said to my wife, we talk about being compredatory. 500 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 6: So we got engaged and then we said, you know, 501 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 6: we can't keep waiting forever because who knows how long 502 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 6: this process is going to take. So we went ahead 503 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:29,160 Speaker 6: and got married before the trial. And then I found 504 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 6: out my wife was pregnant during the trial after we 505 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 6: got married, So you can imagine what it was like 506 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,719 Speaker 6: for my wife, for my parents and everybody else. And 507 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 6: people see you get arrested by the FBI, to think, 508 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 6: my god, like what have you done? What could you 509 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 6: possibly done? And people were shocked that I was arrested 510 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,119 Speaker 6: by the FBI. But as time went on, more and 511 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 6: more people looked at the facts and the evidence, they 512 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,840 Speaker 6: realized this was not a real case and that I 513 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 6: was completely not guilty. I was, well, it was more 514 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 6: than not guilty. I was completely innocent. So it was 515 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 6: just nerve wracking. 516 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: I got to say. 517 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 6: It was a big weight off the shoulders when Donald 518 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 6: Trump was elected, because we felt like we would have 519 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,360 Speaker 6: a good shot with Trump and the White House rather 520 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 6: than Joe Biden. And so just waiting down the days, 521 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 6: ticking down the days. Some people said, why didn't you 522 00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 6: ask for a pardon? Why didn't you ask for pardon? 523 00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 6: And if time were on, you know, it gets stressful 524 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 6: to the whole waiting game and everything. Also, fortunately the 525 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 6: decision ultimately paid off. 526 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: We got the ultimate vindication. 527 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: And how did you find out that was the case? 528 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 2: A phone call? 529 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 6: So yeah, So I was on vacation, first day of 530 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 6: vacation and my attorney texts me and he says, congratulations. 531 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 6: I said, well, what happened? And so I called him 532 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 6: up and he said, you got total and complete vindication. 533 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 6: He let me know that they overturned the conviction three 534 00:28:54,600 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 6: zero unanimous Republicans and Democrats appointed judges on and they 535 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 6: didn't have the evidence. The evidence was deemed insufficient that 536 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 6: no rational jury could have convicted me. 537 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 2: So I'm a little unclear. 538 00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 4: What did you do in between twenty twenty one and 539 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 4: this past week when you find out that your conviction 540 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 4: has been thrown out and you can finally go back 541 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 4: to living your life nine years later. 542 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 6: Well, it's very difficult. For instance, I can't travel. I 543 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 6: wasn't allowed to travel outside of the Southern District of 544 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 6: Florida without permission. Obviously, they took my passport, so I 545 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 6: can't travel abroad, and I got to check in with 546 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 6: the probation once a week, which fortunately is just a 547 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 6: phone call. But it was very stressful. And I'm just 548 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 6: lucky that I was self employed and that I was 549 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 6: able to keep making a living. 550 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: So very lucky in that respect. 551 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 6: But like I said, life has to go on somehow. 552 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 6: So I got engaged, I got married, and we had 553 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 6: our first child because we said we can't just keep waiting. 554 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 6: We're going to be old by the time this thing's done. 555 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,960 Speaker 4: Of course, of course, and the quote unquote unquote wheels 556 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 4: of justice. 557 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 2: Do not move quickly. It's your life, not theirs. 558 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 4: They're going on vacations, they're living there lot as they're 559 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,719 Speaker 4: traveling beyond the southern district of Florida. 560 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 2: Well, what did you do to celebrate? 561 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 6: So, yeah, I was fortunate to be on vacation in 562 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 6: my family, Like I said, so we got a bottle 563 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 6: of champagne and just a great way to start off 564 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 6: the vacation get, you know, swimming in a lake and 565 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 6: all the sunshine. So very fortunate that happened. 566 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 4: Well, Douglas, as a fellow American, I am responsible for 567 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 4: the system that wronged you, and I feel some sense 568 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,480 Speaker 4: of shame that a system that I am supposed to 569 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 4: be a part of, just like every other person in 570 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,719 Speaker 4: this country, did not work as it was supposed to. 571 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 4: It usually does, but clearer than in this case, it didn't. 572 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 4: I will just ask you to conclude by what do 573 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 4: you take away from this? How are you a better person? 574 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 4: I always try to find a silver lining from this 575 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 4: if anyway. 576 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 6: Well, the silver lining is this will make a man 577 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 6: out of you, and this will harden you and toughen 578 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,760 Speaker 6: you up. And that's what happened with me. And it's 579 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,719 Speaker 6: made me a lot tougher, a lot stronger. And I 580 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 6: think that life's bumps, and you know, seem a little 581 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,320 Speaker 6: bit smaller on the road of life, so to speak. 582 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 6: So it's been It gives you perspective in that respect, 583 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 6: and I am extremely grateful for my wife, my attorneys, 584 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 6: everybody who raised the money we had. We had thousands 585 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 6: of people praying for this case, We had thousands of 586 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 6: people donating, sending messages of encouragement, and so very grateful 587 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,160 Speaker 6: for all these people and our friends in the media 588 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 6: who took this case on very early recognizing what was 589 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 6: going on. The foremost among them would be Tucker Carlton. 590 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,560 Speaker 6: So I'm very lucky in that respect. 591 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 4: I remember when we had you on before, I had 592 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 4: so many people who felt like there had to be 593 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 4: more details to there's no way this could really happen 594 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 4: in our times because we don't want to believe it. 595 00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 4: Douglas Mackie, thank you for staying the course and thank 596 00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 4: you for sharing your story. 597 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, sir. 598 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 6: And let me just ask everybody to check out Patriotfreedomproject 599 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 6: dot com because there's a lot of cases like mine 600 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 6: and I'm going to be helping them out in identifying 601 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 6: those cases and trying to get jotted for Americans that 602 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 6: have been wronged by the federal criminal system. 603 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 2: Use this story for good brother Amen