1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,520 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for 2 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host, 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt Podcast. I'm 4 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number three 5 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: fifty one, and today in the show, I'm joined by 6 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: outdoor writer and author Bill Heavy for a rambling exploration 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: of the relevance of hunting, fishing, and forging in the 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: year and beyond. All Right, Hello, and welcome to the 9 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 1: Wired to Hunt Podcast, brought to you by Onyx. I 10 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: hope you guys are doing well and staying safe and 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: sane and busy. Today we have got an interesting conversation 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: for you, something a little bit different than usual, and 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 1: that I hope you're going to enjoy as I'm speaking 14 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: with Bill Heavy. Now, most of your probably familiar with 15 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 1: Bill from his long running backpag column. Back page Column, 16 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: That's what I'm trying to say. Over at field and stream, 17 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 1: It's called a Sportsman's Life. These are these funny end 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: of the issue stories and anecdotes that Bill has just mastered. 19 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: It always brings a smile to your face. He's also 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: the author of several great books, including one titled it's 21 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: only slow food until you try to eat it, which 22 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 1: is one that I just recently read and which inspired 23 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: me to give Bill a call. Bill is a is 24 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: a funny, insightful, and brutally honest writer. And if you've 25 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: heard episode number two thirteen of this podcast, which Bill 26 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: was a guest on, you know he's also a really 27 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: interesting guy to chat with. So for that reason, it 28 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: seemed that, you know, given everything that's going on right now, 29 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: Bill would be a good person to speak with. Given 30 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: the current events, it seems like hunting and fishing and forging, 31 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: to these different ways of living and eating close to 32 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: the land, it might have a new sense of relevance 33 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: for people. And it's this set of topics that I 34 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: wanted to pick Bill's brain about. So we discuss how 35 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: the outdoors helped him cope with the stress of our 36 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: current times. We chat about the future of hunting, parenting 37 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: children to appreciate the outdoors, foraging for wild edibles, uh, 38 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: the risks of eating goose eggs, and just a whole 39 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: lot more. It's a wide ranging and at times random conversation, 40 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 1: and in short, it was it was just what I needed. So, 41 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: without further ado, here's my chat with the one and 42 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: only Bill. Hev all right with me now on the 43 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: line for the second time is Bill Heavy. Bill, thanks 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 1: for coming back on the show, you bet. I. I 45 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: really enjoyed our last chat. And it seems, for whatever reason, 46 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 1: the last month and a half or so, I've found 47 00:02:54,639 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: myself drawn to certain types of people or writers. Um 48 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: maybe I'm I'm seeking comfort in some kind of something. 49 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: I don't exactly know how to put words to it, 50 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: but but you are someone who I've been drawn to, 51 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: at least your words. Um. I you know, we cha 52 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: had a couple of years ago in the podcast and 53 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: I told you that I've read a lot of your books, 54 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: but there's one of your books that I hadn't read, 55 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,639 Speaker 1: and that was It's only slow food until you try 56 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: to eat it. And so I decided to actually read 57 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: that one now. So I've been reading that one during 58 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: this current event crisis of sorts that we're in with 59 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: the coronavirus uh obviously sucking all the oxygen out of 60 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: the room here in spring, and it got me thinking 61 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: that that you would be a great person to talk to. 62 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,839 Speaker 1: So so that's that's why I'm really excited about this Bill. 63 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: How how have you been holding up out there on 64 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: the East coast. Um. You know, I think about like 65 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: everybody else. Um, you know, the drama's kind of there 66 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: was some drama to all this, you know in the 67 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: first few weeks. Uh, you know, it was new and 68 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: it was you know, this complete break with the past 69 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: and and the kind of life that I've been living, 70 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: and I assume most people have been living all of 71 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: a sudden got changed completely. And now, you know, if 72 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: this were a story that I was handing into an editor, 73 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,559 Speaker 1: it would come back with the remark. You know, there's 74 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: no dramatic art here. It's there's a there's a very unsatisfying, 75 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, kind of status right now where we're all 76 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: just hanging out in it waiting for you know, things 77 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: to get better or things to get worse or whatever, 78 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: you know, whatever is going to happen next, so we 79 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: can kind of keep moving. And you know, there's a 80 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: sense of being kind of you know, stuck frozen in place, waiting, 81 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: you know, waiting for the other sheet to drop. Yeah. 82 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: I feel like I feel very similar to like we're 83 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,840 Speaker 1: in this this new slow tailing out of trying to 84 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: figure out what the new normal is or what's the 85 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 1: next what? I guess we don't know what normal is 86 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 1: going to look like, but everyone's trying to sort of 87 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,920 Speaker 1: figure that out right now, to to the frustration of many, 88 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: I guess there's a whole lot of angst. Just just 89 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 1: yesterday in my home state here in Michigan, a bunch 90 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: of protesters stormed our capital, and we're seeing that all 91 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: over the country. So there's there's the health crisis, there's 92 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: the concerns, there's the concerns around the economy, and it's 93 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: it's uncertain times as for sure, what what have you? 94 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: What have you? What have you been doing during this 95 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: time of lockdown and quarantine? I gotta believe it's it's 96 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: got to be particularly particularly particularly something where you're at 97 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: right there near Washington, d C. I wish it was 98 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: particularly something I'm not sure it is. Um, what's lockdown 99 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: like in DC area? Uh? You know, I'm not sure 100 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: I can even speak to d C area. I can 101 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: speak for for me, because you know, DC area is 102 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: like any other areas, you know, composed of a million 103 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: people who are all in lockdown. In these worlds shrink too, 104 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: you know, the one, two three. You know, however, many 105 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: people we're we're seeing um. So, you know, I've been 106 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: taking a lot of walks. I can't go to the 107 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: gym anymore, which is which is a great loss for me, 108 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: because that's one of the ways I kind of get 109 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 1: outside my head, was to just go to the gym. 110 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: And you know, even if it's getting on a treadmill, um, 111 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,480 Speaker 1: you know, it helped me a lot. So I've been 112 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: taking a lot of walks. I go to the ton 113 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: of River and walk, and I've been walking on the 114 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: tow path. But they're you know, they're more and more 115 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 1: people going to those places to walk. And you know, 116 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: sometimes some people get it, some people don't. You know. 117 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 1: The other the other day, I was out on the 118 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: tow pass and this family is walking towards me and 119 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: they're walking four abreasts and you know there's for me 120 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: to get six ft I would have to, you know, 121 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: jump in the canal. And I said, folks, you know 122 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: this is this is really not cool, the social distancing, 123 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: and they looked at me like I lost my mind. Um. 124 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: So some people are some people's heads are in one 125 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: place and other people's heads are in another. It's it 126 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: strikes me during this period, um, whether when it comes 127 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: to the outdoor activities, when it comes to hunting or 128 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: fishing or just taking walks. I've been wondering to myself, 129 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: do those types of things that we take for granted, 130 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: that we love, that are part of our life, going fishing, 131 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: going turkey, hunting, whatever, do those things matter less right 132 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: now given this scope of what's happening around us? Should 133 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 1: they matter less or or the opposite? Do they do 134 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: they matter more than ever? Do they matter more? That's 135 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: that's what I'm wandering in your perspective, much more than ever, 136 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,320 Speaker 1: because you know, they're outlets too, you know, to help 137 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: you cope with things, And so for me, they certainly 138 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: matter more more than ever. And you know, it's it's 139 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: actually a great comfort, uh to see that the natural world, 140 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: you know, I couldn't care less about this. You know, 141 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: everything's blooming, uh. You know, flowers are coming up, trees 142 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: are butting, the fish and running, um, you know that. 143 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: And I find it really comforting that the natural world, 144 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: you know, just boogies gone and it doesn't doesn't doesn't 145 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: really give a damn what we do. Yeah, that is 146 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: that is reassuring in in some small way. I've always 147 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: found that to be. Something that I have always appreciated 148 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: about my outdoor experiences is that they can humble you 149 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: so much when you realize how small you are in 150 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: the bigger scheme of things, when you go out into 151 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: a wilderness and you can so tangibly feel how small 152 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: you are. That some people. For some people, that's disconcerting 153 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 1: or that is upsetting to them, But to me, it's 154 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: it's kind of the opposite. Yeah, I find it. I 155 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:26,319 Speaker 1: find it really nourishing somehow, Uh, to be reminded that that, 156 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, uh, I could drop that tonight and you know, 157 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: the sun is gonna come up tomorrow and the births 158 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: are gonna sing, and you know, the world goes on 159 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: and I don't know, it's hard to it's hard to 160 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: explain the comfort in that, but I certainly experience it. Yeah, 161 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: that's funny. You mentioned that though, when you say that 162 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: you could drop dead tomorrow and everything would go on. Um. 163 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: I was reading in a recent story of yours from 164 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: Field and Stream where you well, I'll just I'll just 165 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: quote what you said here because it's it's related to 166 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: something I think a lot of people are probably thinking 167 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: about right now, which is taking inventory of your life. 168 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: This whole set of circumstances I think has made a 169 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: lot of us press pause and think about things. And 170 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: so you wrote in this story, I'll quote to you said, 171 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: I read a news story the other day that asked, if, say, 172 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: my lungs were to fill with fluid a week from now, 173 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 1: what I'd be content with the life I've led. My 174 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: response was an emphatic not really. Then, as the writer intended, 175 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 1: I began to worry. End quote and tell me this, Bill, 176 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: what what? What are you worried about? What? What would 177 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: you want to have done or still do when it 178 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: comes to obviously I don't want to pry into personal things, 179 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: but when it comes to hunting or fishing, or the 180 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: outdoors or anything like that. What what else do you 181 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: still want to get done? Oh? You know, it's strange. 182 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: I think of it in terms of accomplishing the list. 183 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: Uh you know, I know there are guys who have 184 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: these dreams, uh trips. You know, they want to go 185 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: to Alaska for caribou, They want to they want to 186 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: go elk hunting someplace. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. 187 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:29,400 Speaker 1: My individual head doesn't it doesn't really work it that way. Um, 188 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: you know, tomorrow I'm going out rock fishing on the 189 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: Chesapeake Bay and I'm really looking forward to it. Um. 190 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: And I just got the invitation today, so it was 191 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: it was wonderful. So side Storady tomorrow morning, I'm gonna be, um, 192 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 1: you know, seventy miles from here, getting on a on 193 00:11:49,760 --> 00:11:54,959 Speaker 1: a boat and and that's going to be awesome. Uh. 194 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: You know, the invitation came and I didn't think twice. 195 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: I was just like, you know, yeah, I'm there. UM, 196 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: so it Uh. I'm not quite sure how to answer 197 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: your question because my yeah, I think I think I 198 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: probably misworded my question. I don't think that I necessarily 199 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:19,200 Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with having a bucket list. I don't 200 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: think that's something that um, we have to get to 201 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: it all. But is there? I guess what what? What 202 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: do you what? What are you looking forward to? What 203 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: are the things you still hope to experience? UM, I'll 204 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: just lay an example out for you. One of the 205 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: things I thought about, um as I was just kind 206 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: of writing some notes and I was thinking to myself, 207 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 1: what what are the things I would miss out on 208 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: if say, something like that were to happen. And right 209 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,559 Speaker 1: now it's gosh, I want to see. I want to 210 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: see my son get his first turkey. When It's funny, 211 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: when we talked last time, Bill, when we talked, it 212 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: was it was almost exactly two years ago, because I 213 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 1: went and re listened to that conversation. And during that conversation, 214 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: I told you that I had a three month old son. 215 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: And now we're speaking again and I have another three 216 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: month old son, which is interesting, but I also have 217 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: a two year old. So my son that was three 218 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: months is now two years old. And uh, and so 219 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 1: the joy of my lockdown period, the thing that's been 220 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: keeping me excited during this time stuck at home is 221 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: that I've been able to go in our backyard with 222 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: my two year old and go chase turkeys. He absolutely 223 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: loves turkeys. He plays with a slate call. He's so 224 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: excited about it. Um. And that's just been such a 225 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: sense of such a such a just a way to 226 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: kind of get away from everything and see that joy. 227 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: So when I think about these next outdoor experiences there 228 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: anything to do the natural world, a lot of it 229 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,839 Speaker 1: has to do with my kids. Now. Um, I'm just 230 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: gonna yeah, my head is listening to you, thinking I 231 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: want to borrow that Ki I want to have I 232 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: want to have somebody to chase chase turkeys with. Who 233 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:09,080 Speaker 1: gets excited? Yeah, it's funny. My daughter has just taken 234 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: hunter safety and wants to go honey with me this fall. 235 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: And that is about the most exciting thing going on 236 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: on the Huntymon fishing horizon for me, because this is 237 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: a kid who was brought up here and you know, 238 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: inside the Beltway, and um, you know, her school and 239 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: her mom. Um we're varying, you know, anti gun because 240 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: they had no experience with guns and they can't. You know, 241 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 1: there are there are a lot of people out there 242 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: who think, well, why would you own a gun if 243 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: you didn't want to shoot people? Um. And now she's 244 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: gone to uh she's working on a ranch in Texas 245 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: and she's meeting all these these boys and and shooting 246 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: guns and you know, seen in different way of of 247 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: life and and then you know, taking to it. So 248 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: she brought herself a pickup truck and took took counter safety. 249 00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: So that's you know, that's great. I think anybody with kids, 250 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, there's no greater joy than putting your child 251 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: onto his first or her first you know, fish or 252 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: whatever it is. I was in your book. I was 253 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 1: reading a bit where you had been foraging and I 254 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: can't remember what exactly it was he had found, but 255 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: you had tried to feed whatever this was to your 256 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,800 Speaker 1: daughter and she said something along the lines of, no, 257 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna eat that. I don't like nature food. 258 00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: Is that hissy growth from that too? Uh? I don't 259 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: you know? I hope so, uh maybe a little bit. Um. 260 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 1: It's it's really a funny line when you think about it. 261 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: I don't like nature food, you know. I like food 262 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: that comes I like who it comes from someplace else, 263 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: like the you know, the grocery store, which has nothing 264 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 1: to do with nature. Um. You know, you go, you're 265 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: brought up in certain places. You just think food comes 266 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 1: from the store, and you know, the idea that somebody 267 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: grows it, ships it. Uh, you know never crosses your mind. Right. 268 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 1: It's funny though. Right now, I think, probably in a 269 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: more stark way than ever before, people are starting to 270 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: realize that all the grocery store isn't always going to 271 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: have what I need. For the first time, they're going 272 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 1: there and there's not the meat I want, or there's 273 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 1: not the produce I want. Um. It's It's strange how 274 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: the ripple effects of this set of circumstances are are 275 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: drifting out away from the core issue. I've just been 276 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 1: getting this sense from social media and conversations and and 277 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 1: I'm making some assumptions too, But I think there's this 278 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: this new interest in self reliance or uh, living closer 279 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: to the land. Are you sensing that? Do you think 280 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:07,400 Speaker 1: that this is going to have that kind of fact? Yeah, 281 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: I mean I'm I'm sensing the same thing you are that. 282 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: Um you know, I just I kind of there's a 283 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: part of me that just loves the idea that you 284 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,360 Speaker 1: can't get everything you want at the grocery store anymore, 285 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: and that it's really shaking people up and making them examine, 286 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, how they eat and what they eat and 287 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,120 Speaker 1: where it comes from and why and the whole thing. 288 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's this this crisis, you know, one of 289 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 1: the things that's done as Jaga sell all out of 290 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: our complacency about a lot of different things, and one 291 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,720 Speaker 1: of them is, you know, the natural world. Um. So 292 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: I think it's you know, there are more people growing 293 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 1: guardens um and and I just think, oh, that's great. 294 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: Do you see that change at all in you are 295 00:17:56,720 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: you re examining what you're doing or trying wanting to 296 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,680 Speaker 1: dive in even further. I mean, maybe I should. This 297 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,000 Speaker 1: is a two part question. That's part B. Part A 298 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:13,000 Speaker 1: is uh, have you continued on with the journey that 299 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,040 Speaker 1: you started in that book where you spoke to this, 300 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: this desire to try to forge for more food, fish, 301 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: remove more food, hunt for more food, UM, supply more 302 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: and more of your diet with your own, um, you know, 303 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: with your own hands. Has that changed over the subsequent 304 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 1: you know, seven eight years since you wrote that book? 305 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,800 Speaker 1: And then how has this changed things in further? If so? UM, 306 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 1: I think it's kind of deepened. You know. I it's 307 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: not that I do more of it, but I uh, 308 00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 1: I really value that the times when I'm when I 309 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 1: can do that. I've been going crazy the past few 310 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 1: weeks looking from where else and occasionally, you know, I 311 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: had one day when I got about forty or fifty 312 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 1: Morrel's and it was it was just an amazing day. 313 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: I was fishing with I mean, I was hunting for 314 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: Morrel's with the young guy met at Fletchers Fisheries biologists 315 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: and we're out and you know, very skilled fishermen and 316 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: we're out and finding Morrel's and he was finding twice 317 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: as many as I was. For whatever reason, he said, 318 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: this is amazing. You know, this is don't tell anyone this. 319 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: I like finding a morrel more than I do catching 320 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: a fish. Um. So I assured him that I would 321 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: keep that private. And now I'm I'm telling you, uh 322 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: but um, you know, those kinds of things are just 323 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: They're just so cool. That's so satisfying. So I brought 324 00:19:55,600 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: you Morrel's home post the sauce with them, you know, 325 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: put them in dishes and stuff, and it's it's wonderful. 326 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: I want to go out again. I'm actually planning doing 327 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: that tomorrow and Sunday with my with my family, we're 328 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: gonna do some morrel hum this weekend. Pretty excited about that. 329 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:17,880 Speaker 1: You got morels up there? We do, we do. I've 330 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: I'm ashamed to admit that I've never taken them very 331 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: seriously and not spent the time looking for them. But 332 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: over the last year I've decided I need to change that. 333 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: So yes, I think we finally have the weather and 334 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: from what I hear, they should be starting to show 335 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:37,120 Speaker 1: up right now, so we're gonna be hitting it hard. Yeah, 336 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 1: they can. You can get really hooked. Can you Can 337 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: you give us a pro tip? As you mentioned, I've 338 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: you've been finding a bunch lately, any anythings that it's 339 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: it's weird. I've been I've been going to places that 340 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: people have told me about or have found them, and 341 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: it is just so spooky, Uh, where they are and 342 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: where they aren't. You know, I've gone to place and 343 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: walked the whole day and not found a single morale. 344 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: And I've gone to places where you know, I probably 345 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 1: didn't walk you know, four yards all day and found 346 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: tons of morrels. So, um, I'm light on pro tips. 347 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: That's okay. It's fun to look. Yeah, you know, it's 348 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 1: funny sometimes whether it's looking for mushrooms or shed hunting 349 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: or probably any other kind of forging, you need to 350 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: just enjoy the act of searching. If you don't enjoy 351 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 1: the act of searching, if you're just focused on the 352 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 1: end result, you're probably gonna be disappointed most of the time. 353 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: It's it's totally like shed hunting, and you know, if 354 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: you need to find a shed to have a good 355 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: day shed hunting, you know you probably shouldn't go. Yeah, 356 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: and actually one of the things I like about Morales 357 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: is like, um, they're easier to find the sheds. Do 358 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: you think so for me? That then, what I've found 359 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: as many sheds as I found Morrel's, I would be 360 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,440 Speaker 1: I would be very happy. I guess you don't ever 361 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: find uh, fifteen sheds, I'll cluster together under one tree. Huh, No, 362 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: they don't. I wish you're you know, you're decided to 363 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: cooperate and like, I'm gonna go shed over here these 364 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: guys are looking for. That would be. That would be 365 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 1: pretty great. Um, so you're looking for mushrooms? Is there 366 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 1: anything else that you still forge? Because I was just 367 00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:28,879 Speaker 1: reading the other night about how you had tried to 368 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: forage from your lawn and put together a salad from 369 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: all the various weeds and greens in your yard, and 370 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: I had read about cattails you're eating. Has any of 371 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: that carried over? Do you forage for anything else? Um? 372 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: Every once in a while, you know, And when the 373 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,800 Speaker 1: Danny lions first started coming up, I would get Danny 374 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: lion and so I say them and I like them 375 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: for breakfast with eggs. Um, So that that was really good? 376 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: How do you how do you do that? Is which 377 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,720 Speaker 1: parts are using. Well, you're using the leaves and what 378 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: you want or what's known as the basil rosette. So 379 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: you go to the center of the of the plant, 380 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: and what you really want are the young, small tender 381 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 1: leaves that grow in the center, and as you go 382 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: out from that they get tougher and more bitter. And 383 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: by this, you know, by the time the plants have 384 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: been up for a while, they get real bitter, which is, 385 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: you know, this is a nature's way of protecting the 386 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: plant um. You know, to put stuff in it that 387 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: makes it so that certain animals don't you know, don't 388 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: eat as much of them. Right. I've been been looking 389 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: into more and more of this whole foraging idea, and 390 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,280 Speaker 1: it does seem a little intimidating. Even mushrooms. It seems 391 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,240 Speaker 1: like if you eat the wrong one a aquileia um. 392 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,879 Speaker 1: But I as I've been looking to it seems to 393 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: be there's some staples. For example, a friend of mine 394 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,119 Speaker 1: on a recent podcast talked about the foolproof four mushrooms 395 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,320 Speaker 1: that you know, there's these four that are safe, they're 396 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,520 Speaker 1: easy to find, they're great. Um. If I was going 397 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: to pick up forging other things, greens or something like that. 398 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,360 Speaker 1: Is there a foolproof four of of anything else out 399 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: in nature that I could be adding to my diet? 400 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: Or if I'm locked down because of coronavirus, I need 401 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 1: to spice up the refrigerator. Is there is there a 402 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,880 Speaker 1: handful of things you've learned about? Yeah, well, let's see, 403 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: you're putting me on the spot here. Um my job. 404 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: You know. I love to go out and get you know, 405 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: wine berries, which are kind of um. They're like wow, 406 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 1: uh raspberries, um. And let's go pretty well around here. 407 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,399 Speaker 1: You know, most places there are berries that get ripe. 408 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: Um and you know a few weeks or a month 409 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: or more from now u UM. I love going up 410 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: for papaus in the fall. It's usually in mid September, 411 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,880 Speaker 1: and they tend to grow along rivers. They're all over 412 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 1: the East, but not not exclusively. And then you know, 413 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: from Canada to Louisiana, and you know, those are wonderful. 414 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: It's the biggest um. It's the biggest New World fruit, 415 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: and it has this amazingly tropical taste. You know, the 416 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: first time you eat one, you can't really believe that 417 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: it grows, you know, around the first one time I 418 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: had one. I couldn't believe it was a local fruit 419 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: because it just tasted so so much like you know, 420 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:52,679 Speaker 1: mango and banana and I love those, but you know 421 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: with a lot of florage things. You know that if 422 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: people who have all these recipes for poppa and I 423 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: have always thought the best way to eat them this 424 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 1: just you know, we're right under the tree where you 425 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: find take a pocket knife, feel the skin off and 426 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: just enjoy it. It's almost um tomorrow. It's almost like 427 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 1: a sacrament of fall. You know. It's just a reminder 428 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 1: that this is a once a year thing and that 429 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: the seasons are rolling and at this moment and the 430 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: paw paws are ripe has come around again. Yeah, you've 431 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:36,120 Speaker 1: always thought the best spice is the scene. Like if 432 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: you there's so many meals that you can look back 433 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: on and say, that was the best meal I could 434 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:43,280 Speaker 1: ever imagine, and you think about the food itself, and 435 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: it probably wasn't, you know, tangibly that much better than 436 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: something you ate at home or at a restaurant. But 437 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: it was because you were on that mountain. It was 438 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,120 Speaker 1: because you were you know, by that tree or by 439 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: that river. Um, those meals just seem to be saturated 440 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: with something different. It's yeah, it's totally about those associations. 441 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: I was once writing a piece about uh family of 442 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 1: African Americans who gathered from all over the country in Texas, 443 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: um for a barbecue every summer, and they, um, you know, 444 00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: they were all dispersed wively, but they've grown up here. 445 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: And the the guys were taking me to this barbecue 446 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: place that had these sausages which they loved, and they 447 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: just typed these sausages up, you know, for hours before 448 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,280 Speaker 1: I had one, and they were they were awful that 449 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,479 Speaker 1: these guys loved them. And I realized what they're tasting. 450 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: They're not really tasting the sausages, They're tasting their their 451 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,520 Speaker 1: use again and that, you know, that named them wonderful. 452 00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: Do you have anything like that in your life? A 453 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: meal or a food or something that you have associated 454 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: with some past memory or a place or something that 455 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 1: if you took me to eat it, I probably wouldn't 456 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,280 Speaker 1: be too impressed. Um, well, you know, I was a 457 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: Suburbs kid, so it would be you know, McDonald's or something. Well, okay, 458 00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: you're right, I wouldn't be impressed. Yeah you would. I'm 459 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: not impressed. So I wish I had some magical, you know, 460 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 1: touchstone food I could tell you about gush about. But 461 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 1: but I don't. I think. I think as I try 462 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: to answer my own question, as I just popped in 463 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: my mind, and I I thought back to, well, I 464 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: grew up in a in a family that that hunted fish. 465 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: But it was a very there's a lot of enthusiasm, 466 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: there's very little expertise, I guess, might be a way 467 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: to put it. We kind of just follow the very traditional, 468 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,760 Speaker 1: very traditional Michigan your head out, you sit next to 469 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,239 Speaker 1: a tree and shoot the first thing you see. We 470 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: had a little cabin up north. Um, so great tradition. 471 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:51,160 Speaker 1: Um yeah. But but when it came to, for example, cooking, 472 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: same thing, no expertise. The only way I ate venison 473 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: growing up was we would my dad or grandpa would 474 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: cut up pieces of venice and into medallions, put in 475 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: a pan, put in sliced onions, pour a whole thing 476 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: of barbecue sauce into the pan, and then you fried 477 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: it up, and you fried it to those things where 478 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 1: like hockey pucks, and and that is what we ate. 479 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: And I thought it was the best meal in the world. 480 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 1: It was so good. But now looking back on it, 481 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: it must have been terrible picking all those chunks of 482 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: meat out of my teeth for weeks on end afterwards, 483 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: because I'm sure it was horribly overcooked. Um, But aside 484 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: from that, it sounds pretty damn good. Yeah, yeah, it was. 485 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 1: It was the best if you just don't overcook it, 486 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: that's a pretty good that's a pretty good meal. I 487 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,360 Speaker 1: was making barbecue last night from from a you know, 488 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: a doe doe shoulder that I had in the fridge. Um, 489 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: and it was good. What's uh? What what are your 490 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:56,440 Speaker 1: go to what do your go to comfort meals or 491 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: comfort food recipes for your venice in these days? I 492 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: don't if if if you're feeling this, but I feel 493 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: like right now, comfort food things that just make me 494 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: feel good are high on my list of the types 495 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: of food I want to eat right now. Um, what 496 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: would you go to be right now? You know? I 497 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: like making barbecue and and uh, as as it happens, 498 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 1: it turns out to be a plug for you because 499 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: the recipe I was on deed either perfect for and 500 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was called, so I don't 501 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: know how to direct people to it. But it was 502 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: cooking venison was you know, you made sauce with onions, 503 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: you know, onions and dinner, so you know the primary 504 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: ingredients in it, and you cook it down and you 505 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,520 Speaker 1: put it in a crop pot on low, and you know, 506 00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: come back the next day almost but it's great. Yeah, 507 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: hard to go wrong with that. Yeah. Um. We I 508 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,160 Speaker 1: did something kind of similar, except for I did low 509 00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: and slow in a smoker and may like almost like 510 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: a barbecue brisket type of chop brisket sandwich, um with 511 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: a venison roast and wow that was that was tremendous too. Yeah. Um. 512 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: When it comes to food, I had another story I 513 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: wanted to pry out of you, Bill that kind of 514 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,440 Speaker 1: looks at the opposite side of the food spectrum, which 515 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: would be the appalling And I absolutely loved the story 516 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: you shared in your book about foraging for goose eggs. 517 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,959 Speaker 1: Can you can you regale us with the story of 518 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: your blue goose story? Uh? I just would love to 519 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 1: hear that again. Uh. The best I can remember, I 520 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: was out. I had a couple of foraging teachers, and 521 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: one was my friend Paula Smith, who had written The 522 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,960 Speaker 1: Bath extensively, and we were out looking for goose eggs 523 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: along the Potomac, and she was explaining that, you know, 524 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,920 Speaker 1: in high water, you know, the goose are not the 525 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: goose are not the brightest creatures. You know, they nest 526 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: right at the at the edge of the water, and 527 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: sometimes the water comes out and wash it their eggs away, 528 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:15,520 Speaker 1: so they, you know, they there's a second way. And 529 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: so she we're you know, we're we're kind of bush 530 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: whacking through this tall grass and seeing geese, and um, 531 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:28,840 Speaker 1: we saw one that put its head down, you know, 532 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't running away. And she goes, oh, that's one 533 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: on the nest. Okay, we can get these. She goes, 534 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:36,840 Speaker 1: you know I wouldn't well, you know, I wouldn't take these, 535 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 1: but we're overrunning geese. You know, I wouldn't take a 536 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: duck's eggs. Um. So we went and we got these 537 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: two eggs and they were big, you know, um, more 538 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:53,520 Speaker 1: than twice the size of a regular eggs. And she said, 539 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,960 Speaker 1: now these will be good. So I took my home 540 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,920 Speaker 1: and uh, what did I do? I think I boiled 541 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: it or soft boiled it. And I opened it up 542 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: and it was, uh, the fetus of the of the 543 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: goose blue and a little too fully formed for my 544 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: taste to eat it, and and I kind of slipped 545 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: out and I just I washed it down the I 546 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: washed it down the disposal and turned on the disposal 547 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: and just tried to make it, you know, like this 548 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,719 Speaker 1: didn't really have to make it disappear, but because I 549 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: felt so bad about it, so it was like this 550 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 1: thing was never really here. Um. And later I called 551 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: Paula and I said, did you have the same experience 552 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: I did? He goes, yeah, boy, I wasn't crazy about 553 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 1: eating that, but I ate it. He goes, yeah, I 554 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: took it. I had to eat it, and you know, 555 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: I felt kind of ashamed that I was not the nobles. Yeah. 556 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,800 Speaker 1: I think I think you wrote that she hard boiled 557 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: it and then slice it up thin or something. Yeah, 558 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 1: something like that. It's funny though, in in that I'm 559 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:16,000 Speaker 1: recalling now what you said is that when she told 560 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 1: you that, you know, well I killed it. I had 561 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: to eat it. You were impressed by that, by that 562 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,280 Speaker 1: set of principles she had around it, around the hunt 563 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 1: or the the kill. Um. Do you do you feel 564 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: like you have something similar now or have you have 565 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: you changed it all since those early days? Uh? Yeah. 566 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I maybe this is what happens if you 567 00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:47,240 Speaker 1: get old, like I feel even more um, a duty 568 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:52,240 Speaker 1: to make use of any animal I've killed, you know, 569 00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: taking the life of this animal, which is you know, 570 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 1: it's a momentous thing. It's you know, you you're you know, 571 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,520 Speaker 1: it's a godlike power life and death. And if you 572 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: kill something, um, you know, and you don't use it, 573 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: that seems to me just indefensible. Yeah, mm hmm. Yeah. 574 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: It's one of those things that for me and probably 575 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,879 Speaker 1: for a lot of people, especially I guess those who 576 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 1: start as children as as as a young person. I 577 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: was just indoctrinated into it. This is what you do. 578 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 1: You hunt, you you kill animals, you eat them. That 579 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 1: was just part of life. It wasn't until I think 580 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 1: I got into my twenties that I started to self examine, 581 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: like why do I do this or or how do 582 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 1: I do this? And it doesn't matter how I do this, um. 583 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: And I didn't come to my own set of of 584 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: ethics or principles until that point. But before it was 585 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: it was the thing you did. UM. I wonder if 586 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: what did you discover in your own ethics? Well, I 587 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,360 Speaker 1: think I discovered pretty quickly that I had to set 588 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: some kind end of I had to create that ethic 589 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: for myself. There was there was what was given to 590 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: me by my family. You do this, you do this, 591 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,360 Speaker 1: you do this. But I never really got into the why, 592 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,680 Speaker 1: um except for I was what. There was always a 593 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: sense of respect. You had to respect the animal. You 594 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 1: definitely had to use the animal. There was there was 595 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,359 Speaker 1: always My Grandpa was always very serious that you would 596 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: you would never shoot anything unless you were going to 597 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: kill it right away, click, quick, clean kill, and you 598 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: were going to use it. There was no shooting at 599 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 1: something just because, um you know, he didn't like me 600 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:40,080 Speaker 1: shooting at a raccoon in the woods just because. Um. 601 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:41,799 Speaker 1: So that was given to me. But I had to 602 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,680 Speaker 1: then later process it in my twenties and then figure 603 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:47,799 Speaker 1: that out and and figure out what what does that 604 00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: mean for me as an adult and how does that 605 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: influence the decisions I make, what I'm gonna hunt, why 606 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: I'm going to hunt? All that, And you know that's 607 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,080 Speaker 1: that was thirteen years ago or whatever. I'm still of 608 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: figuring out today. It's evolving. You came into hunting as 609 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 1: an adult, as I understand it, Um, but you've been 610 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: doing it for for quite a long time. Now, how 611 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: is your set of principles or your set of in 612 00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 1: an internal guidelines? How is that evolved? How? I know 613 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,600 Speaker 1: you still have them? You obviously do the deeper you said. 614 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: But but what what's changed? Has anything changed? You know? 615 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: How to put this exactly? As you get older, your 616 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,280 Speaker 1: your heart gets softer. You know, it's harder, it's harder 617 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,239 Speaker 1: to kill things. Um. And I've sometimes, you know, I'm 618 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: gone out thinking I'm going me hunting and at a 619 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: shot at a at a deer and just not taking it. 620 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:52,920 Speaker 1: Just something something, and he wasn't ready to, you know, 621 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: let that arrow go. Um. And I don't think that's 622 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:07,760 Speaker 1: an uncommon experience among my older hunters. You know, Uh, 623 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 1: you realize you're not going to be around forever. Yeah, 624 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,479 Speaker 1: and you see something. I don't know. Maybe I've see 625 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,480 Speaker 1: something to myself and need animals. I don't know. My 626 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:22,280 Speaker 1: my grandpa in his later years, he started taking video 627 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,200 Speaker 1: camera and and that was all he would shoot his 628 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: animals with. And I always thought I thought it was crazy. 629 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 1: I would get mad at him, Why don't you shoot 630 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 1: that buck? Um? But I think aren't I think I 631 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: get it a little bit more now though I can 632 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 1: see where he was coming from. I could see, you know, someday, 633 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: maybe I'll find myself in a similar place. I'm not 634 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm not there yet. I'm not. I'm not at the 635 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: video camera stage yet. But you know, I get it 636 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: as I as I h as I understand it. You 637 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,320 Speaker 1: still you still get pretty excited about the shot. I 638 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: saw a recent article about target panic. You still you 639 00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 1: still get the fever. Huh? Yeah, well, tarr panics completely 640 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: different than than the hunting. The hunting shakes. But yeah, 641 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: it's it's funny, and it's I cannot even be thinking 642 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: about getting excited about the deer. You know, maybe I've 643 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:20,759 Speaker 1: been out hunting a couple of days and I haven't 644 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: seen one, and a deer, you know, walks within range 645 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: and might lects you start shaking. It's not even h 646 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with my brain whatsoever. How 647 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 1: are you dealing with that? Well, you hope the deer 648 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,520 Speaker 1: is long. I hope the deer is gonna be around 649 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 1: long enough for me to get from control of that. 650 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: But you know, I also love that I still have 651 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:53,880 Speaker 1: that reaction. You know, it tells me I'm alive. It's 652 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: a great that that you can be that moved by 653 00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,080 Speaker 1: an animal. Uh. I think it's something to be thankful 654 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: for you. Very true. It's funny that kind of that 655 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: kind of experience is is so relatively unique to something 656 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: like hunting. I think that's one of the things that 657 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 1: draws so many of us to it and keeps us 658 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,880 Speaker 1: so pooked on it. Um. But then you see, you know, 659 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,320 Speaker 1: so many other folks across the country or the world 660 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: are pulled in these other directions with you know, the 661 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:35,080 Speaker 1: video games, TV shows, whatever it is. There's so many 662 00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,080 Speaker 1: different distractions out there, these different things that can fill 663 00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:41,600 Speaker 1: your time. Um. But then you see something like hunting, 664 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,960 Speaker 1: and you and I know, like, oh, there's you're missing out. 665 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,879 Speaker 1: There's this there's something so special that you're missing out 666 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,920 Speaker 1: on while you're filling your head full of Netflix. Do 667 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,520 Speaker 1: you and I can't. I can't believe it's a video 668 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:56,200 Speaker 1: game that makes anybody's legs shake. Right. So, so with 669 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 1: that being the case, do you do you ever worry 670 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: that hunting is becoming irrelevant to people? Is hunting relevant today? 671 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,399 Speaker 1: How do you feel about that? I certainly have my thoughts, 672 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: but I mean, it's it's very relevant to me. And 673 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:16,880 Speaker 1: I think there will always be people to whom it 674 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,919 Speaker 1: speaks um. You know, I don't think hunting will ever 675 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,839 Speaker 1: go away. You know, we're we're hard wired for it. 676 00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: You know, our species hunted for of our time on 677 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,400 Speaker 1: this planet. We've we've lived and died by our skills 678 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: as hunters. And I think that's just we're hardwired for that. 679 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:43,920 Speaker 1: But it's true that if you don't get exposed to it, 680 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: you never know. You know, you never know that. The 681 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 1: first time I killed a deer um, it was with 682 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: a bow and arrow, and as soon as I've done it, 683 00:41:56,760 --> 00:42:01,319 Speaker 1: I was just flooded by all these minckles and emotions, 684 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: and I had this really distinct sense that I, you know, 685 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,360 Speaker 1: what I was feeling was not unique to me. It 686 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: was U an ancestral memory, you know, a kind of 687 00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: circuitry that's latent in all of us. But you don't 688 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:26,319 Speaker 1: know that until you activated, and otherwise it's just you're 689 00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: not even aware it's there. D I can relate to that. 690 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: And I wonder have you thought at all about or 691 00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: worried or hoped at all about your daughter's experience of 692 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:44,279 Speaker 1: that possibly coming up if she's able to fall through 693 00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:47,440 Speaker 1: and and go on a hunt. I would yeah, I 694 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:51,760 Speaker 1: mean I firmly hope that she will have the same experience. 695 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:53,279 Speaker 1: And at the same time I realized that I have 696 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: um about no control over that. You know that she's 697 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,080 Speaker 1: going to She's gonna experience what she experiences. And as 698 00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:08,120 Speaker 1: as a parent, you know you want, you would love 699 00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:12,160 Speaker 1: to be able to shape that, um but that's part 700 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,160 Speaker 1: of you know, parents and even just coping with the 701 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:19,359 Speaker 1: fact that you know that you can't and you know 702 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,719 Speaker 1: letting go. Are you gonna Is she gonna go on 703 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,960 Speaker 1: her first hunt with you? Or she going to get 704 00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,919 Speaker 1: to do that in Texas? I think I think she's gonna. 705 00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: I think she's gonna wait and go with me. That's exciting? 706 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,799 Speaker 1: Is that exciting or nerve wracking? Both as as your 707 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,759 Speaker 1: minded man, so I know you said you can't control it, 708 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,640 Speaker 1: but who's let's not kid ourselves. I'm sure you are 709 00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:46,400 Speaker 1: going to try to at least plan and or influence 710 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,520 Speaker 1: as best as you possibly can. Uh, how do you 711 00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:53,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you have something envisioned already? Do 712 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,160 Speaker 1: you have some kind of idea? I think the most 713 00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,960 Speaker 1: powerful thing you can do is just talk. You know, 714 00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:01,839 Speaker 1: the most powerful thing I can do is just tell 715 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: her what what it's been like for me and what 716 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:11,480 Speaker 1: it means to me. Um, and you know, turn her 717 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:16,000 Speaker 1: loose and see with her experiences and you know, hope. 718 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: You know. I think kids are always listening more than 719 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:24,319 Speaker 1: we give them credit for. Um, even when they're telling you, 720 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,680 Speaker 1: you know, they don't need you and mind your own 721 00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:30,840 Speaker 1: business and let people in my life, um and pushing 722 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,440 Speaker 1: you away just as hard as they can. U. They 723 00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:39,839 Speaker 1: still need you, and they're still listening. It. It's just 724 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,359 Speaker 1: they're doing a really convincing job of making you think 725 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: they are. Yeah, you'll get to this, your kids are young. Yeah, 726 00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: I can already feel like I can see the very 727 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,239 Speaker 1: beginnings of it, thou. Yeah, it is. It is an 728 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,960 Speaker 1: interesting journey, that's that's for certain. And it's it's funny. 729 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,080 Speaker 1: I find myself looking forward to things like you're describing. 730 00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,319 Speaker 1: You know, I can't wait till I can take him 731 00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,200 Speaker 1: on a real hunt, until he can get hunter safety 732 00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: and and all these things. But then I try to 733 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: remind myself not to wish away today. I do try 734 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: to just appreciate and enjoy the little things right now. Um. 735 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,319 Speaker 1: But man, I remember taking I took em on what 736 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,239 Speaker 1: fishing was. And uh, I had brought, you know, a 737 00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,799 Speaker 1: little rod for her, you know, set it up, and 738 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 1: you know, did all this stuff so she would enjoy fishing. 739 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:36,520 Speaker 1: And she cast you three times and said, you know, 740 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,640 Speaker 1: I'm bored. I'm gonna I'm gonna go over here. And 741 00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 1: I said, We'll just okay, let me fish for a 742 00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,280 Speaker 1: little bit. And when I came over, she had made 743 00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:51,120 Speaker 1: about eight or ten little altars. She just had gathered 744 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 1: grasses and rocks and sticks and stuff, and she just 745 00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,760 Speaker 1: made these amazing little altars, some you know, little shrines 746 00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:06,440 Speaker 1: or something um in the rocks, and and you know, 747 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,359 Speaker 1: they were It was kind of mind blowing because she 748 00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,680 Speaker 1: was having her own experience and response, I think, to 749 00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: the river and to being out there. And it wasn't 750 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,840 Speaker 1: about fishing, but it was, you know, it was primal. 751 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,239 Speaker 1: One of the things that I've It's funny, as you 752 00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: mentioned that I've as I've been starting to have these 753 00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:32,000 Speaker 1: experiences of my son, I find myself being conflicted with, 754 00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:35,000 Speaker 1: like these two sides of what I want to have happened. 755 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,280 Speaker 1: I want my son to have. Yeah, Like for example, 756 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,560 Speaker 1: I want to go out, We're going on a hike, 757 00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:42,480 Speaker 1: I want to go somewhere, I want to cover distance, 758 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: I want to get to whatever and destination is. So 759 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: there's that, But then there's the flip side, which is 760 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,319 Speaker 1: I also want him to enjoy his own experience, like 761 00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: you described this other thing, whatever it's going to be 762 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,400 Speaker 1: for him. So I'm constantly struggling with like my frustration 763 00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,160 Speaker 1: that we're not covering any distance because he wants to 764 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,720 Speaker 1: look at every dandelion, everyone wants to pay up every stick. 765 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:02,480 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I have to remind myself, 766 00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:04,760 Speaker 1: this is so great that he's excited about these things 767 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:07,880 Speaker 1: and that he's having fun. So it's it's I'm definitely 768 00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:10,480 Speaker 1: in this new phase where I have to rewire how 769 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,319 Speaker 1: I get satisfaction out of things. Um I I went through. 770 00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:16,279 Speaker 1: I went through a lot of that where I would 771 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,920 Speaker 1: get annoyed at my child because she was not moving 772 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: at what I was sure was the right pace, and 773 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,239 Speaker 1: the stuff that she was interested in was not the 774 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:30,239 Speaker 1: stuff that she should really be interested in. And what 775 00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:34,280 Speaker 1: you know that you know, you're dawdling blah blah, uh, 776 00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:36,239 Speaker 1: you know, while I have something to show you and 777 00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,440 Speaker 1: it's up here, and and I you know, now that 778 00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm older. I regret, you know, keenly, that I didn't 779 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:49,800 Speaker 1: just let her go and try to help her discover 780 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,359 Speaker 1: as she was discovering. And you know, maybe that's one 781 00:47:54,360 --> 00:48:00,480 Speaker 1: of those things you only really appreciate in hindsight. But uh, 782 00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,160 Speaker 1: you know, I'd love if I could go back and 783 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:11,400 Speaker 1: change some of the ways I I acted. It's it's 784 00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: interesting that on the flip side of that, I totally 785 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,480 Speaker 1: I can see myself wanted to be doing what you 786 00:48:19,560 --> 00:48:22,840 Speaker 1: just described. I want to try to be as as 787 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,560 Speaker 1: patient and understanding and focusing on the enjoyment for them. 788 00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,399 Speaker 1: That of course makes a lot of sense. But I've 789 00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:33,239 Speaker 1: got a friend who brought another point up which I 790 00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,520 Speaker 1: think about sometimes I'm not there yet with my kids. 791 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: They're too young, I think, but at some point I 792 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:41,520 Speaker 1: wonder if I want to introduce this element And um, 793 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:44,440 Speaker 1: I've mentioned this on the podcast before, so previous listeners 794 00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,319 Speaker 1: know what I'm getting at here. But this friend of 795 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,520 Speaker 1: mine had said that, um, the outdoors is really good 796 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,480 Speaker 1: at teaching your kids to become comfortable with the uncomfortable 797 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,000 Speaker 1: and using it as this tool like we should, we 798 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,440 Speaker 1: should I don't want to say force, but it's okay 799 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:08,399 Speaker 1: to put them in uncomfortable, difficult situations and push them 800 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:13,160 Speaker 1: past the easy enjoyment, because that's a growth opportunity. It's 801 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,839 Speaker 1: important that they learned to deal with being cold, not 802 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: just to be dealing with being cold, but what that 803 00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:23,200 Speaker 1: kind of does for someone building that little you know, toughness. Um. 804 00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:24,960 Speaker 1: And so I think about that a lot and how 805 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,800 Speaker 1: I might try to walk that fine line someday. UM, 806 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: if any experience with that or thoughts on on these 807 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: outdoor experiences as personal growth tool for our children as well. Um, 808 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,759 Speaker 1: you know, I don't really Um, I think they're going 809 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,439 Speaker 1: to get They're going to get what they get. And 810 00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:50,080 Speaker 1: I agree with you that those experiences are aren't great. 811 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 1: And if you know, if the kid is h enthused 812 00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,600 Speaker 1: and engaged in what they're doing, they won't mind being 813 00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,239 Speaker 1: a little cold or a little uncomfortable. I never had 814 00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:06,160 Speaker 1: any luck trying to, you know, trying to convince the 815 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:11,520 Speaker 1: child that it was okay that she was cold. That's 816 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,120 Speaker 1: a lizing battle, huh. And it's just a little discomfort. 817 00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,879 Speaker 1: And you know, if you stick it out to see 818 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 1: me when you're home, you know you'll be glad that 819 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,799 Speaker 1: you did. I never got real far with that. Yes, 820 00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,080 Speaker 1: so far my method has been snacks. I've been able 821 00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:33,520 Speaker 1: to extend our outdoor activities of snacks. Ye, yes, I 822 00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:35,960 Speaker 1: have been lucky, though I don't know what I did 823 00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,040 Speaker 1: right or just lucked into it that so far, my 824 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,640 Speaker 1: son is gung ho. He's he wants to go out 825 00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:43,839 Speaker 1: and chase turkeys. Even in the pouring rain. He wanted 826 00:50:43,840 --> 00:50:45,719 Speaker 1: to stay out in the woods and he just sat 827 00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,800 Speaker 1: on my lap and ate his neutral grame bar And 828 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:51,200 Speaker 1: every time we heard a turkey gobble, his eyes got 829 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:55,759 Speaker 1: big and he said turkey, and uh, that's wonderful. So 830 00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:57,359 Speaker 1: it's been a lot of fun. It's been a lot 831 00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,279 Speaker 1: of fun. The only problem is that he tries to 832 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,439 Speaker 1: bring that in side with him. So when our three 833 00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,560 Speaker 1: month old is taking a nap, which are so so 834 00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,239 Speaker 1: so blessed and sacred right now that he needs those 835 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: and halfs we need that little baby sleeping, and then 836 00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,360 Speaker 1: my two year old grabs his box call and wants 837 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,360 Speaker 1: to start cutting away on that. Um, then we have 838 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:22,399 Speaker 1: an issue. So that's that's our current struggle right now. 839 00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:26,239 Speaker 1: Be careful what you create. I know, I know we 840 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,960 Speaker 1: joke that, um, he's going to go into preschool or 841 00:51:29,040 --> 00:51:31,239 Speaker 1: kindergarten or whatever, and that poor teacher is going to 842 00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:36,280 Speaker 1: start walking through during class the various animal noises. Maybe 843 00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:38,800 Speaker 1: at some point they'll bramp. Well, you know, a turkey 844 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:42,560 Speaker 1: says this. Uh bear says this, And I can see 845 00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: my son being very bossy and correcting everyone. Well know 846 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,279 Speaker 1: what turkey actually a female turkey will yelp like this, 847 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:51,720 Speaker 1: and it helps bugles like this because he's already bugling 848 00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,399 Speaker 1: on the bugling tube and he's I don't know, he's 849 00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: into it, So that'd be great, be great, It would 850 00:51:57,520 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 1: be a wonderful story to tell you. If he gets 851 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,239 Speaker 1: narrited or something, it will be here, it will be 852 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,880 Speaker 1: I'm at this point now with my hunting and fishing 853 00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,080 Speaker 1: where you know, as a kid, I was just into it, 854 00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,839 Speaker 1: and then as a teenager I was trying to get 855 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:14,960 Speaker 1: good at it, trying to figure it out, just the basics, 856 00:52:14,960 --> 00:52:16,319 Speaker 1: like how do I get it? How do I kill 857 00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,680 Speaker 1: a deer? How do I catch fish? And then in 858 00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 1: my twenties it was how do I catch a bunch 859 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,960 Speaker 1: of fish? And how do I get good at deer hunting? 860 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:26,919 Speaker 1: And you know, kill a big buck or an old 861 00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:29,279 Speaker 1: buck or something like that. And so I think that's 862 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,719 Speaker 1: been my trajectory. Now I'm in my thirties and I've 863 00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,040 Speaker 1: got a young family, and um now I'm finding myself 864 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:38,000 Speaker 1: more and more thinking about, Okay, how do I how 865 00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 1: do I foster and create a lifestyle for my family 866 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:45,239 Speaker 1: that is centered in these outdoor places and wildlife and 867 00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:46,920 Speaker 1: these things that matter to us, and how do I 868 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,319 Speaker 1: introduce my children to that? So that's where I am 869 00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:55,319 Speaker 1: in my kind of outdoor journey. Where where where are you? Bill? 870 00:52:55,400 --> 00:52:57,239 Speaker 1: What are the things that are mattering to you now 871 00:52:57,400 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 1: and in the future. Um? Well, I you know I 872 00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:04,839 Speaker 1: referred to this before, but you know, there's nothing more 873 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,880 Speaker 1: satisfying than than putting a kid, you know, on his 874 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:15,560 Speaker 1: first fish, or helping a kid, uh enjoy the outdoors. 875 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:20,000 Speaker 1: You know that that becomes much more socilling than um, 876 00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, anything I could catch or kill. Um. Other 877 00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,920 Speaker 1: than that, it's just you know, it's the experience that 878 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:33,960 Speaker 1: I just I really value the experience of being out there, 879 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,960 Speaker 1: just being part of the of the cycle of being, 880 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,960 Speaker 1: you know, being a witness to it, getting to see 881 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:47,719 Speaker 1: the year just ye going on the way seasons have 882 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:51,640 Speaker 1: always been, always gone and always will if you know, 883 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:57,000 Speaker 1: scrutiny was up too much. Yeah, do do you have 884 00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:02,279 Speaker 1: anything coming up that, uh, that you're particularly looking forward to, 885 00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:05,680 Speaker 1: if if assuming we can do the things we're hoping 886 00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,840 Speaker 1: we can do in the coming months, Um, anything that 887 00:54:08,840 --> 00:54:13,640 Speaker 1: you're particularly pointing your point in your mind towards. Um, well, 888 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,560 Speaker 1: I'm very excited if you're going rock fishing tomorrow. Um, 889 00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to get out and start um shooting and 890 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:26,319 Speaker 1: getting ready for tear season, which is kind of you know, 891 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:32,320 Speaker 1: it's kind of like Christmas to me. Um. So yeah, 892 00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:35,960 Speaker 1: here's the big thing. Yeah, are you are you traveling 893 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:37,719 Speaker 1: at all for deer this year or just gonna be 894 00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,520 Speaker 1: hunting local? I think I'm gonna be pretty local. Magazines 895 00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,840 Speaker 1: are really pulling in their horns budget wise, because you know, 896 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:54,080 Speaker 1: this this downturn is affecting everybody. Yeah, yeah, probably using 897 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:58,920 Speaker 1: an orange juice can microphone, right, Yeah, keeping it pretty 898 00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:04,960 Speaker 1: basically over here too. Um, what given given that we 899 00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,279 Speaker 1: are in strange times right now. Um, whether it be 900 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,680 Speaker 1: magazine is pulling back budgets or people having to stay 901 00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:16,520 Speaker 1: close to home, people not being able to travel for 902 00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:19,200 Speaker 1: their big trips or able to go into work or whatever, 903 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:22,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people are stuck at home. Um. So 904 00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:25,080 Speaker 1: I would certainly encourage people to to hunt if they can, 905 00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:26,919 Speaker 1: or fish if they can, or forge if they can. 906 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,759 Speaker 1: But if they literally can't get out and do any 907 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:34,840 Speaker 1: of those things and they need to consume media, do 908 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,640 Speaker 1: you have any recommendations there? I know last time I 909 00:55:37,680 --> 00:55:41,640 Speaker 1: asked you about this, you'd recommended The Bear by Faulkner. Um. 910 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,560 Speaker 1: And I just I just love picking the brains of 911 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:50,319 Speaker 1: other writers about books they like, or documentaries that they 912 00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:52,239 Speaker 1: have been moved by, or anything like that. Is there 913 00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:54,480 Speaker 1: anything out there right now that you can point folks 914 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:58,080 Speaker 1: towards it might be worth a little bit of their time. Yeah. 915 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,120 Speaker 1: I pointed towards the the books of Bill Head, which 916 00:56:02,120 --> 00:56:06,160 Speaker 1: I think will really flift them up spiritually, engage them, 917 00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:13,520 Speaker 1: teach them new things. And you know, um I do agree. 918 00:56:14,760 --> 00:56:19,720 Speaker 1: Let's see, Uh, funny I've read. I'm doing a review 919 00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,239 Speaker 1: of a book by Jeremy Wade, who was the guy 920 00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:27,520 Speaker 1: on River Monsters and is you know, the extreme Anglers 921 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:32,479 Speaker 1: Extreme angler but uh, and he wrote this book trying 922 00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,120 Speaker 1: to take you into his mindset as he goes after 923 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,279 Speaker 1: these fish, and in that he succeeds. You know, he 924 00:56:39,640 --> 00:56:41,920 Speaker 1: shows you his mindset. And the only problem is his 925 00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,879 Speaker 1: mindset is is really uh to me, it's really dull 926 00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:50,880 Speaker 1: because he's not fishing. He thinks, you know, the the 927 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:56,680 Speaker 1: idea of sport is unhelpful. You know, he's trying to 928 00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,520 Speaker 1: catch these fish for his TV show, you know, no no, 929 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:06,080 Speaker 1: no fee and uh so it's you know, he fishes 930 00:57:06,120 --> 00:57:11,080 Speaker 1: as if his life depends on every situation. And he's 931 00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:15,200 Speaker 1: always using that the heaviest gear, um, you know, gear 932 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:18,840 Speaker 1: appropriate to catching the biggest fish that he can possibly 933 00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:23,040 Speaker 1: catch and in a given situation and reducing all human 934 00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:28,000 Speaker 1: error and um, you know, just and it just reduces 935 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:35,240 Speaker 1: fishing to this uh kind of brutal science. Um. And 936 00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:43,280 Speaker 1: you know the guy's has huge success. Um, but you know, 937 00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how much money. Yeah. So, so we 938 00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:55,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't wouldn't read that book, wouldn't read that one. You know, 939 00:57:55,840 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 1: I'd I'd love to get out of chessing bluegills. What 940 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:05,160 Speaker 1: It's funny you bring that up, because it is a 941 00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:10,040 Speaker 1: weird line we walk though, and I'm pivoting off of 942 00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:11,880 Speaker 1: the media thing and back to what you just described 943 00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:13,840 Speaker 1: because it applies to a lot of things, applies to hunting, 944 00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:17,200 Speaker 1: applies to fishing. Um, So that the idea that he 945 00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:22,360 Speaker 1: just wants to catch the fish is somehow off putting. Um. 946 00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,680 Speaker 1: But at the same time, if you didn't want to 947 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:27,440 Speaker 1: catch the fish, or if you look at the opposite 948 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:29,720 Speaker 1: way and you said, well, I don't I just want 949 00:58:29,760 --> 00:58:33,760 Speaker 1: to play it. Um, But I would never eat it, 950 00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:36,320 Speaker 1: or would never or I just want to hunt the deer, 951 00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:38,400 Speaker 1: but I don't really care about the end result. Then 952 00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:42,400 Speaker 1: something's gone there too a little bit. Um. Oh, yeah, 953 00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:44,200 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be hunting deer if you don't care about 954 00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:48,840 Speaker 1: the right right, how do you reckon with that? Well, 955 00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, I want to I want to catch fish 956 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,280 Speaker 1: and I want to shoot gear. But my day in 957 00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,840 Speaker 1: the woods. Uh, you know, I can have a pretty 958 00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:03,440 Speaker 1: good day and not not shoot a deer or catch 959 00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,280 Speaker 1: a fish. Although it's harder with fish, I have to say, 960 00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:10,000 Speaker 1: I don't catch anything that's a harder day. You can 961 00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,720 Speaker 1: always you can always release the fish, that's true. Do 962 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,960 Speaker 1: you have any qualms with catching release fishing at all? 963 00:59:16,040 --> 00:59:19,000 Speaker 1: There's some folks that that I know that have taken 964 00:59:19,400 --> 00:59:22,480 Speaker 1: stances against it and that it's kind of playing with 965 00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:28,360 Speaker 1: your food. Um, I'm catching release. It does no, it 966 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:30,640 Speaker 1: does bother me a little bit. It seems to me 967 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,800 Speaker 1: that I'm not you know, I'm not saying I'm right. 968 00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm just saying it. It bothers me a little bit 969 00:59:37,160 --> 00:59:42,000 Speaker 1: that the idea of that I'm out there and you know, 970 00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:48,200 Speaker 1: kind of inflicting trauma on this fish to some degree. 971 00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:51,560 Speaker 1: You know, I have no idea to what degree um 972 00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:55,520 Speaker 1: for my you know, for my own amusement. It seems 973 00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:58,880 Speaker 1: sort of cleaner and more honest if you're catching fish 974 00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,640 Speaker 1: to two feed yours self. Although you know, if that's 975 01:00:02,640 --> 01:00:06,080 Speaker 1: all we did, you know a lot of rivers and 976 01:00:06,160 --> 01:00:10,880 Speaker 1: streams which soon be devoid of fish. Yeah, yeah, it's funny. 977 01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:13,160 Speaker 1: I've thought the same thing, but it hasn't kept me 978 01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:17,919 Speaker 1: from catching release fishing. It's it's a but it's true. 979 01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:20,240 Speaker 1: If if you want the opposite too far what you 980 01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,160 Speaker 1: just described would happen, then we wouldn't have we wouldn't 981 01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:25,120 Speaker 1: have the resource at all if it kept everything. So 982 01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:28,400 Speaker 1: there's it's interesting though. It's this weird thing that I 983 01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:33,000 Speaker 1: that I think that across all of these consumptive activities 984 01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:37,320 Speaker 1: you have to constantly wrestle with if you, I guess, 985 01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:38,840 Speaker 1: if you get to the point where you start thinking 986 01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,240 Speaker 1: about these things like the guy I did in my twenties. 987 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:44,280 Speaker 1: You start wrestling with the what am I doings and 988 01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,040 Speaker 1: the why am I doing it and the how I'm 989 01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:47,920 Speaker 1: doing it. And it is a funny thing when you 990 01:00:48,560 --> 01:00:52,400 Speaker 1: when we rationalize that, Okay, I'm hunting to eat. I 991 01:00:52,440 --> 01:00:54,920 Speaker 1: want to kill a deer to eat it. But then 992 01:00:55,000 --> 01:00:58,280 Speaker 1: you self impose different restrictions on yourself that make it 993 01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,360 Speaker 1: harder to get the thing that you eat. So you 994 01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,720 Speaker 1: go from I don't want to use a gun now 995 01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:05,040 Speaker 1: when he's a bow or then you start using traditional gear. 996 01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,320 Speaker 1: And there's an argument that can be said that someone 997 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:10,120 Speaker 1: might look at that and say, oh, it's more ethical 998 01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,320 Speaker 1: to bow hunt because it's harder. You're making it more 999 01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:15,520 Speaker 1: difficult for you, so it's easier for the deer to 1000 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,280 Speaker 1: get away. Or you can make the opposite argument, which is, no, 1001 01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:20,480 Speaker 1: it's less ethical to bow hunt because there's a greater 1002 01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:22,960 Speaker 1: chance of you wounding the deer and it's not as 1003 01:01:23,000 --> 01:01:26,080 Speaker 1: quick of a death. There's all these weird ethical moral 1004 01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:33,800 Speaker 1: dilemma's fine lines. Um and and I don't know, I 1005 01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,520 Speaker 1: kind of think that the one of the greatest things, 1006 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:40,680 Speaker 1: maybe the greatest thing about hunting is that you know, 1007 01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:44,600 Speaker 1: there's no audience, you're You're the one who decides those things, 1008 01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:49,440 Speaker 1: and every hunter decides what's right for him, you know. UM. 1009 01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:54,680 Speaker 1: And I try to stay away from ethical arguments as 1010 01:01:54,720 --> 01:02:00,440 Speaker 1: if there is um, you know, the right or wrong. Um. 1011 01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:04,560 Speaker 1: You know. The wonderful thing about hunting is the is 1012 01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:08,160 Speaker 1: a moral complexity of what you're doing. You know the 1013 01:02:08,200 --> 01:02:12,960 Speaker 1: fact that it's not um, black and white, and that 1014 01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:19,800 Speaker 1: nobody there's nobody else telling you you know what to do, 1015 01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:24,200 Speaker 1: and there's so few areas of our lives where we 1016 01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:29,920 Speaker 1: have that freedom. And of course with that freedom is 1017 01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, responsibility for what you choose to do and 1018 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,880 Speaker 1: you know how you're gonna live with, which I think, er, 1019 01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:44,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's fantastic. Yeah, it's it's it seems to 1020 01:02:44,440 --> 01:02:47,400 Speaker 1: me it's the process of having to go through that 1021 01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:51,240 Speaker 1: kind of murky swamp of the interior of your mind 1022 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:55,920 Speaker 1: to figure that out for yourself. Ah, there's there's I 1023 01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,160 Speaker 1: don't know if it's joy or accomplished or there's something 1024 01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:01,320 Speaker 1: there's something there that is there's not being healthy about that, 1025 01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,960 Speaker 1: something good about it and and I don't know what 1026 01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:08,400 Speaker 1: it is either, And I'm hesitant to try to uh 1027 01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:11,560 Speaker 1: put a label on it. But I know, I know 1028 01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:16,640 Speaker 1: it's I know it's important. Yeah, you might be you 1029 01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,160 Speaker 1: might be hesitant to do this. You just you just 1030 01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,240 Speaker 1: said that you like to avoid any kind of ethical 1031 01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:25,600 Speaker 1: or moral stance that you're pointing it to someone else. 1032 01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:29,640 Speaker 1: But um, but but to steal a question from another 1033 01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,240 Speaker 1: podcast or that, like if if you were given a 1034 01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:39,520 Speaker 1: billboard along the highway they're heading into d c um 1035 01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,680 Speaker 1: and in this I think this is a great final 1036 01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,760 Speaker 1: thought to to end on here. If you could have 1037 01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:46,160 Speaker 1: a billboard for everyone to see, or if I could 1038 01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:48,920 Speaker 1: give you the homepage of Google and YouTube and you 1039 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:51,920 Speaker 1: could plaster a great big banner at across it for 1040 01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,600 Speaker 1: everyone to see every day. Um, what would that message 1041 01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:58,760 Speaker 1: be right now for people from from Bill Heavey? What 1042 01:03:58,760 --> 01:04:05,680 Speaker 1: would you like to see on that? Uh? Well, that's uh, 1043 01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:08,120 Speaker 1: that's a totally unfair question. I kind of resent you 1044 01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:13,360 Speaker 1: asking it, and my my quickness, you know, off the 1045 01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:15,320 Speaker 1: top of my head, I guess I would I would say, 1046 01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:21,040 Speaker 1: you know, h, enthusiasm is more important than skill. You know, 1047 01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:25,000 Speaker 1: the idea that it's about enjoying what you're doing. It's 1048 01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:29,760 Speaker 1: not about being the best at it, because I think 1049 01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,840 Speaker 1: there's a sort of purity of we feel like we're 1050 01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,920 Speaker 1: not supposed to enjoy stuff unless we're really accomplished at it, 1051 01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:39,320 Speaker 1: unless we're serious about it, And I think that's just 1052 01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:44,080 Speaker 1: completely bast awkward. I think that's a great that's a 1053 01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:48,560 Speaker 1: great sentiment to be thinking about, especially during times like these, 1054 01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:52,440 Speaker 1: when I think spend a little more time focusing on 1055 01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,360 Speaker 1: the joy you can have is more important than ever. 1056 01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely so so. Bill, for people that do want to 1057 01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:03,280 Speaker 1: take your original recommendation, which was to read up on 1058 01:05:03,320 --> 01:05:06,320 Speaker 1: all those Bill heavy books, Um, do you wanna do 1059 01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,840 Speaker 1: you wanna kind of read through? Which what those book 1060 01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:13,240 Speaker 1: titles are? Or mention anyone in particular that folks might 1061 01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:14,720 Speaker 1: want to take a look at right now where to 1062 01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,480 Speaker 1: get them. The first one was if I if you 1063 01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:22,640 Speaker 1: didn't bring turkey, what did I just eat? And it 1064 01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,040 Speaker 1: was not lost? If you can still see the truck, 1065 01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:32,680 Speaker 1: followed by um, it's only slow food until you try 1066 01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:37,240 Speaker 1: to eat it? And uh, should the tempt be burning? 1067 01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:44,040 Speaker 1: Like that? All great titles? Um? And I gotta say, 1068 01:05:44,080 --> 01:05:46,720 Speaker 1: I don't I don't know which I have no idea which, 1069 01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,960 Speaker 1: well are you willing to tell me which book did 1070 01:05:48,960 --> 01:05:54,120 Speaker 1: the best or which to book did the worst? Uh, 1071 01:05:54,320 --> 01:05:57,000 Speaker 1: the one that I honestly don't know, I don't I 1072 01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,960 Speaker 1: don't care great. I know which one did the work, 1073 01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:01,840 Speaker 1: which is probably not what I should tell you. But 1074 01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,240 Speaker 1: it's only Slow Food did the worst, I think because 1075 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,440 Speaker 1: they had no idea how to categorize it, okay, because 1076 01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:11,920 Speaker 1: it was a bunch of different things. Yeah, and and 1077 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:16,840 Speaker 1: so I asked, because I was if you didn't bring jerkey, 1078 01:06:16,840 --> 01:06:19,080 Speaker 1: what did? I just did? I think was pretty successful. 1079 01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,280 Speaker 1: So so yeah, I was. I was thinking that maybe 1080 01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:26,280 Speaker 1: that the Slow Food one would be the answer because 1081 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,480 Speaker 1: it is a different format than your other books, and 1082 01:06:28,480 --> 01:06:31,320 Speaker 1: and like you said, maybe harder to categorize. Um. But 1083 01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:33,560 Speaker 1: I want to make it a personal mission of mine 1084 01:06:34,200 --> 01:06:37,000 Speaker 1: to try to change that. So I want everyone out 1085 01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,480 Speaker 1: there to go and check out that book because I 1086 01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:42,600 Speaker 1: really have been enjoying it. I've always loved your short essays, 1087 01:06:42,720 --> 01:06:45,440 Speaker 1: but to see a book, because for folks that aren't familiar, 1088 01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,200 Speaker 1: all of your other books are a series of short 1089 01:06:48,280 --> 01:06:52,920 Speaker 1: stories and essays um related to fishing, hunting, the outdoors, 1090 01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:55,240 Speaker 1: different things like that. But it's never been a single 1091 01:06:55,360 --> 01:06:58,160 Speaker 1: narrative like what you did with it's only slow food 1092 01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:02,280 Speaker 1: that is a narrative, a single narrative arc that takes 1093 01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,560 Speaker 1: you through your own personal journey to try to become 1094 01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:09,400 Speaker 1: more connected to your food and hunting and fishing and 1095 01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:12,600 Speaker 1: foraging and all that. Um. And it's really good, Bill, 1096 01:07:12,720 --> 01:07:16,320 Speaker 1: It's it's a it's an enjoyable book. I think it 1097 01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:19,600 Speaker 1: deserves readers more than it has. I'm sure there's been 1098 01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:23,040 Speaker 1: plenty of readers, but deserves more. UM. So I would 1099 01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:25,680 Speaker 1: encourage anyone out there listening. It's a great read for 1100 01:07:25,840 --> 01:07:29,440 Speaker 1: right now. These these times were in Um I've I've taken, 1101 01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:34,240 Speaker 1: I've I've laughed, I've smiled, I've learned a thing or 1102 01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:36,560 Speaker 1: two along the way, and it's it's inspired me to 1103 01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:39,320 Speaker 1: spend more time out there looking for tasty things to 1104 01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,200 Speaker 1: pick up out of the wild and eat. So highly 1105 01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:45,600 Speaker 1: recommend all those, but definitely check that one out right now. 1106 01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:48,960 Speaker 1: So Bill, thank you, thank you for writing, thanks for 1107 01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:52,120 Speaker 1: talking with me, Thanks for your time, my pleasure. Thank 1108 01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:56,400 Speaker 1: you all right, that is going to do it and 1109 01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,160 Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed this one. Like I mentioned at the end, 1110 01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:02,080 Speaker 1: highly recommend Bills books. Now. It's a great time to 1111 01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:04,960 Speaker 1: do some reading, so pick those up. If you haven't 1112 01:08:04,960 --> 01:08:07,960 Speaker 1: already picked up That Wild Country, my recently published book, 1113 01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:11,640 Speaker 1: I recommend to check that one out too, And otherwise, 1114 01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:14,200 Speaker 1: I just hope you have a great rest of your week, 1115 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,360 Speaker 1: Stay healthy, stay well. I hope you can get outside 1116 01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:20,800 Speaker 1: and enjoy mother Nature and some sunshine. And until next time, 1117 01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,559 Speaker 1: stay wired to Hunt.