Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,
Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of
Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.
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Speaker 2: But enough with that, let's get to the show. Hello everybody,
Speaker 2: it is little after seven pm here on the East Coast.
Speaker 2: We have just knocked off Crystal from the Ron DeSantis
Speaker 2: Elon Musk.
Speaker 3: David Sachs couldn't take it anymore.
Speaker 2: Couldn't take any more. At this point, I think I
Speaker 2: literally have brain and ear cancer. For the uninitiated, it
Speaker 2: was a total and a complete disaster. We are not
Speaker 2: exaggerating glitches. From the very beginning. We have a little
Speaker 2: bit of a highlight reel for everybody.
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen, hight, I'm pleased introduce to individuals
Speaker 4: who've done more to loosen the grip.
Speaker 5: All right, Sorry about that. We've got so.
Speaker 4: Many people here that I think we are we are
Speaker 4: kind of melting the servers, which is a good sign.
Speaker 4: Might have surprised many, but not those of us who've
Speaker 4: known to work with Elon for nearly a quarter century
Speaker 4: into freedom and to put his money off his mouth is.
Speaker 6: Let's see so well, yeah, I think so, just to
Speaker 6: simplify that, there's three in an eighty two thousand people
Speaker 6: learn all right, great, so let's see, it's just keep
Speaker 6: crashing him.
Speaker 5: Yeah. I think we've got.
Speaker 7: Just a massive number of people online, so it's serve
Speaker 7: as restraining somewhat. All right, we're just reallocating more service
Speaker 7: capability to be able to handle a load here. It's
Speaker 7: really going going crazy. So yeah, I'm super excited to
Speaker 7: have governed status. Uh, make this up.
Speaker 5: All right?
Speaker 4: I think we're broadcasting man, I think we melted the
Speaker 4: internet there.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was insane. Sorry.
Speaker 7: We actually doing this from David TeX's Twitter account because
Speaker 7: it looks like doing it from mine basically broke the
Speaker 7: Twitter system.
Speaker 5: Governor Santis are you there? Can you get us? I
Speaker 5: think you're breaking right here? I know. I think I
Speaker 5: think you broke the internet there.
Speaker 4: We had over half a million people in one Twitter
Speaker 4: space and it was growing by like fifty thousand a minute.
Speaker 4: So congrats on on breaking the internet there.
Speaker 7: Well yeah, yeah, I mean you try some you know,
Speaker 7: new things that you're going to Yes, it's adventurous, so yes,
Speaker 7: But I think the value here is actually really high
Speaker 7: for people to hear directly from presidential candidates and to
Speaker 7: answer a Q and a live and you can get
Speaker 7: a sense for how a candidate really is, you know,
Speaker 7: and and where it's not just can speeches and telepronters.
Speaker 7: It's in fact you can tell by the you know,
Speaker 7: some of the mistakes that it's real.
Speaker 2: My personal favorite, Crystal is whenever they keep forgetting to
Speaker 2: pause and they're like basically on a hot mic before
Speaker 2: everybody else. So after exactly twenty five minutes of glitches,
Speaker 2: we finally did get to hear from the candidate, the candidate,
Speaker 2: Governor DeSantis, whose Twitter video actually went out at six pm.
Speaker 2: By the way, we'll be breaking all that down tomorrow
Speaker 2: in our morning show. But read's straight up Crystal off
Speaker 2: of a script basically from his campaign at an entirely
Speaker 2: five minute long presentation, and then from that point forward,
Speaker 2: David Sachs and appear clearly this was a coordinated event,
Speaker 2: calls on DeSantis surrogate's people like Thomas Massew's already endorsed
Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis governor Christopher Ruffo, who's worked closely with DeSantis
Speaker 2: doctor j Bodataria. I mean, none of that is bad,
Speaker 2: I guess, but you know, ostensibly this is effectively a
Speaker 2: campaign event that was coordinated, held on Twitter in frankly
Speaker 2: a disastrous format. It was not too disantrst the strength.
Speaker 1: So I'm agree that's like the nicest thing you could say.
Speaker 1: That's like so diplomatic, not to his strengths. I mean, okay,
Speaker 1: so first let's go through the blow by blow because
Speaker 1: regardless of like what happened after the initial disaster, already
Speaker 1: you've got the Daily Mail.
Speaker 3: Says Ron disaster.
Speaker 1: You've got Fox News, which has been in DeSantis's corner,
Speaker 1: but they feel snubbed over the fact that he decided
Speaker 1: to do this bizarre Twitter launch thing instead of launching
Speaker 1: with them, they're going after him. I mean what he
Speaker 1: said after the initial glitches almost doesn't really matter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so let's go through a little bit of the blow
Speaker 1: by blow. So first of all, they launched the Twitter spaces.
Speaker 1: We couldn't get in. I mean we were trying. We
Speaker 1: were us and our team Griffin and Matt were all
Speaker 1: trying to get it. You couldn't get in, Okay, so
Speaker 1: that's the first problem. You can't even get into this thing.
Speaker 1: Then I think you were able to get in, yes,
Speaker 1: but you couldn't hear anything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like static noise if feeble recorded.
Speaker 1: There were Twitter and employees talking about servers and what
Speaker 1: I mean, just total disaster.
Speaker 3: At some point, DeSantis leaves the whole thing, yes, several Yeah,
Speaker 3: and then they had.
Speaker 1: To relaunch with the new spaces and apparently Elon, even
Speaker 1: though he was supposed to be hosting, they couldn't use
Speaker 1: his account. Still they had to like clude to work around.
Speaker 1: And the initial spaces that had crashed had over half
Speaker 1: a million people in it. When you came back in,
Speaker 1: you were about one hundred thousand, two hundred thousand, and
Speaker 1: David Sacks keep kept making these proclamations like this is
Speaker 1: the most people ever gathered on social media. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: it's not. It's not even close to that. And this
Speaker 1: is for audio only. It's not even video. Okay, it's
Speaker 1: audio only. So it's obviously catastrophe for Elon and Twitter.
Speaker 1: It's a complete catastrophe for Ron DeSantis. I cannot imagine
Speaker 1: how he is feeling, Like the amount of rage and
Speaker 1: despair he must be feeling right now. I can't cannot
Speaker 1: even wrap my head around.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have.
Speaker 1: Never seen a political event be this much of a disaster.
Speaker 1: And the other thing I was saying, you do use
Speaker 1: two soccer is like, even if the tech had worked flawlessly,
Speaker 1: this was a horrible idea.
Speaker 3: Yes, like it had all of.
Speaker 1: The energy people are saying online and this is not original.
Speaker 1: It had all the energy literally of a zoom conference
Speaker 1: call meeting with your boss, and it was hardly even
Speaker 1: focused on him. All these other characters were coming in
Speaker 1: and much of this was basically an ad, a really
Speaker 1: bad ad, since it was such a disaster for Twitter
Speaker 1: and Twitter spaces. You have even his surrogates, Thomas Massian's
Speaker 1: coming in.
Speaker 7: Are you on?
Speaker 3: You're so great?
Speaker 8: So great?
Speaker 3: What you're doing for the what are we doing here?
Speaker 3: This is the presidential campaigns.
Speaker 2: We have a little bit that, Crystal. We have some
Speaker 2: some portions of this where they're basically just talking about
Speaker 2: how great Twitter and Twitter spaces is. Let's take a
Speaker 2: listen to that.
Speaker 5: What made you want to kind of take the chance
Speaker 5: of doing it?
Speaker 4: This way as opposed to just doing on cable bs
Speaker 4: or the usual way.
Speaker 9: Well, when COVID hit, I had to make decisions about
Speaker 9: do you go with the crowd or do you look
Speaker 9: at the data yourself and cut against the grain. So
Speaker 9: when Elon must stepped up to purchase Twitter, he paid
Speaker 9: a lot of money for it, and I'm sure because
Speaker 9: he's a good businessman, Elon, I'm sure you'll end up
Speaker 9: making money off it. But the bottom line is you
Speaker 9: had to put your money where your mouth is because
Speaker 9: I think you recognize that you can't have a free
Speaker 9: society unless we have the freedom to debate the most
Speaker 9: important issues that are affecting our civilization. That did not
Speaker 9: happen during COVID. The truth was censored repeatedly. And now
Speaker 9: that Twitter is in the hands of a free speech advocate,
Speaker 9: that would not be able to happen again on this
Speaker 9: Twitter platform.
Speaker 7: Well, thank you. Yeah, We're absolutely committed to freedom speech
Speaker 7: and level playing field and just a vigorous debate and
Speaker 7: hopefully this can be a platform that brings people of
Speaker 7: divergent to political view is.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I mean, the amazing thing about Twitter and things like
Speaker 7: spaces are that although I happened to be hosting it.
Speaker 7: I had to switch over to David hosting it because
Speaker 7: my account was actually just too much interest. My account
Speaker 7: was breaking the system. But it's it's a There's really
Speaker 7: never been a mechanism before where someone could address the nation,
Speaker 7: or anyone who wanted to listen to them, could from
Speaker 7: from anywhere in the world, the United States or anywhere.
Speaker 7: So this is a I think this is a really
Speaker 7: profound change. Whereas with a public digital town square like
Speaker 7: we have here, it's possible for the public to choose
Speaker 7: the narrative. It empowers the people instead of a very
Speaker 7: tiny elite cabal, which I don't recognize the irony of
Speaker 7: using that phrase, but but nonetheless it's it's true, and
Speaker 7: judge by the results.
Speaker 10: First of all, let me say a big thank you
Speaker 10: to Elon Musk for buying Twitter and expect all of this.
Speaker 10: By the way, I've never met Elon Musk, but I'm
Speaker 10: one of your biggest fans. I'm the first congressman to
Speaker 10: have a tesla. I'm on star I'm on Starlink, and
Speaker 10: I would have bought a power wall, but I'm off
Speaker 10: the grid and you wouldn't tell me once, so I
Speaker 10: had to make one with the wrecked models.
Speaker 8: Elon, if I put down money on January first, twenty
Speaker 8: twenty two, that Twitter was going to be the last
Speaker 8: bastion of free speech on Earth, brother, I'd be about
Speaker 8: as rich as you are on that bet right now.
Speaker 8: I mean, it's incredible, and Elon, I have to say
Speaker 8: thank you for taking the arrows and for unthrottling the
Speaker 8: accounts of all of us who got in trouble for
Speaker 8: sharing a New York Post story about a laptop.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was one of my immediate takeaways. Chrystal. I
Speaker 2: actually tweeted this at the time, and I just said, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, with respect to Elon into Sacks, why would
Speaker 2: DeSantis want his campaign launch to basically be an ad
Speaker 2: for Twitter spaces like announcements should not be an advertisement
Speaker 2: for the medium. And once again, look, I considered David
Speaker 2: sachs afriend. I think he's a nice guy. I really do.
Speaker 2: I actually love his podcast, some of his stuff on
Speaker 2: Ukraine that said whenever he and Elon were being like
Speaker 2: nobody's ever done anything like this before, I look, it's
Speaker 2: this is literally not true. I mean, like YouTube has
Speaker 2: held events where millions of people are watching synchronously in
Speaker 2: audio and in video, and like you said, that was
Speaker 2: just that's video way actually harder to pull off. So clearly,
Speaker 2: you know, Twitter completely shit the bed. Yeah, in their
Speaker 2: role out of this, the infrastructure was a nightmare. And
Speaker 2: I also think this is a big indictment of the
Speaker 2: DeSantis campaign. Nobody picked up the phone and said, hey,
Speaker 2: are you guys sure, Like are we good to go?
Speaker 2: Can we do a test? Like can we make sure
Speaker 2: one hundred percent? There's no you know, this is literally
Speaker 2: the job of advanced staff to make sure and you know,
Speaker 2: you know this also crystal, like anytime candidates and others
Speaker 2: are doing something high profile. I mean, hell, even sometimes
Speaker 2: when we interview people, they you know, their team will
Speaker 2: check like what time is it gonna go up? Like
Speaker 2: can we do a check just make sure everything is
Speaker 2: good to go, like a pre zoom call almost, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, these are very normal things whenever it comes
Speaker 2: to you know, even mid profile events. This is the
Speaker 2: highest high profile you're on the absolute biggest national stage ever.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I mean the big story out of it,
Speaker 2: unfortunately for him, is nothing that he said. Another reason
Speaker 2: why I think it was a huge mistake was it
Speaker 2: was long, It was plotting. It was over an hour
Speaker 2: and pre selected questions, prescripted answers. That is not engaging.
Speaker 2: It was difficult to listen to and to be engaged in,
Speaker 2: you know, and like, that's just not it's not good
Speaker 2: radio man, Why I do this for a living. The
Speaker 2: whole time, I'm like, ask him a freaking question. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 2: you know, get the pace going. Don't let him just
Speaker 2: read off of the thing. That's just not how these
Speaker 2: things are supposed to go.
Speaker 1: It made him look very small, feel very small, And
Speaker 1: so there's an advantage of I'm sure what they were
Speaker 1: going for was like, oh, people feel more.
Speaker 3: Connected to them. It's more of an intimate setting.
Speaker 1: You're having this, like you're being let in on this
Speaker 1: conversation among these people that you've heard about.
Speaker 3: But it didn't come across that way.
Speaker 1: It came across as wildly inauthentic because everything was obviously
Speaker 1: completely pre planned and scripted. So if your bet was
Speaker 1: this will be a more authentic, natural setting, well you
Speaker 1: definitely blew it on that front. And then the advantage
Speaker 1: of a normal, traditional staged campaign speech. You know, think
Speaker 1: of how much thought Trump puts into the optics of
Speaker 1: his campaign speeches and what's behind him and who's behind him,
Speaker 1: and in the airplane hangar with his private jet behind
Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. It gives you that sense
Speaker 1: with the staging and the music and the presence, like oh,
Speaker 1: this is a thing that I want to be part of.
Speaker 1: And it also helps to enable you to envision this
Speaker 1: person as president of the United States and commander in chief.
Speaker 1: So if you're going to skip down on that, you
Speaker 1: better have a damn good reason. So, like I said,
Speaker 1: even if the tech had been flawless, I think this
Speaker 1: would have been a disaster for him because it was
Speaker 1: so poorly planned. It was so boring, it was so plotting,
Speaker 1: it was so prescripted, it was so lacking in any
Speaker 1: sort of like all right, let's do this thing, campaign, excitement,
Speaker 1: launch energy, that it was a terrible concept from the start.
Speaker 1: And I also have to say on like this side,
Speaker 1: and I talked to Emily about this some this morning.
Speaker 1: You know, conservatives have been and I have been also
Speaker 1: very rightfully upset about collaboration between social media giant companies
Speaker 1: and government. And then here you have this billionaire owner
Speaker 1: of Twitter putting his hand thumb directly on the scales
Speaker 1: in favor of his favorite presidential can It's like, how
Speaker 1: can you argue that this is like a neutral free
Speaker 1: speech platform at this point when you've clearly made a
Speaker 1: bet in terms of this political race, and of course
Speaker 1: people are going to assume, right, what are you doing
Speaker 1: behind the scenes that try to pump this guy up
Speaker 1: when you're publicly pumping this guy up to the best
Speaker 1: of your ability.
Speaker 3: Although that kind of fell fell flat, didn't it.
Speaker 2: I agree. I think it was a mistake for Elon
Speaker 2: to do that, you know, especially for you know, he
Speaker 2: has a brand that he actually had a decent amount
Speaker 2: of leverage with Democrats even before this. Glenn Greenwald, I
Speaker 2: know you guys talked about on the show today that pole. Yeah,
Speaker 2: showing Elon's likability ratings and all that becoming explicitly partson
Speaker 2: is just not the right thing to do here. The
Speaker 2: second thing I would just say is hold a goddamn rally.
Speaker 2: You know, just just do a rally.
Speaker 3: God supporters, pahuld show up our.
Speaker 2: Particular freaking governor in Florida. You should have just put
Speaker 2: out a video. I mean, he's in Miami right now,
Speaker 2: and he should have just done a damn rally and
Speaker 2: then immediately after the rally. I mean, right now as
Speaker 2: you and I are speaking, he's literally on Fox News.
Speaker 2: We'll be covering them all of that tomorrow in terms
Speaker 2: of his interview, some maybe some other things that he says.
Speaker 2: But you know, I mean, looking at the takeaway, it's
Speaker 2: not just us. Front page in the New York Times,
Speaker 2: Desanta's announcement is disrupted by Twitter malfunction. The subhead of
Speaker 2: there is about what's going on with ron said, second
Speaker 2: front page of the Washington Post Desanti's presidential campaign kickoff
Speaker 2: on Twitter plagued by technical issues. If you look at
Speaker 2: the Daily Mail, so, like you said, they call him
Speaker 2: a failure off in Ronning. That's what the top of
Speaker 2: a New York Post is.
Speaker 1: That's the nicest fun you can say.
Speaker 3: I've gotten a neutral.
Speaker 2: Often Ronning is what we've got from the New York Posts.
Speaker 2: They're in the Tank Forum, Daily Mail.
Speaker 3: Oh we've got a we got a Trump react to,
Speaker 3: don't we?
Speaker 2: Yes? I have. I tru got it there here in
Speaker 2: front of me. It says, Rob. My red button is bigger, better,
Speaker 2: stronger and is working truth Yours does not. Per My
Speaker 2: conversation with Kim Jong Moon of North Korea soon to
Speaker 2: become my friend. For those who don't remember, the red
Speaker 2: button is a reference to the fire and fury speech.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the nuclear nuclear button.
Speaker 1: Not his best work in my opinion, but I'm sure
Speaker 1: he's going to be having a field day with this
Speaker 1: for a long time. And here's the thing too, for DeSantis,
Speaker 1: why this is a story that may have maybe problematic
Speaker 1: for him beyond just this moment. His whole pitch is like,
Speaker 1: I'm Trump without the chaos. I'm Trump but competent. And
Speaker 1: so when your launch is a humilion, a shit show,
Speaker 1: it's hard for you to carry the message of like, okay,
Speaker 1: but I'm the one who knows how to actually I
Speaker 1: think he even had a line in there like some
Speaker 1: people know how to tweet, and I know how to
Speaker 1: get it done. It's like, well, that's not really demonstrated
Speaker 1: with your launch today, buddy. And I do think those
Speaker 1: things could matter. I mean, part of I think how
Speaker 1: Obama was able to defeat Hillary bat all the way
Speaker 1: back in two thousand and eight, even as this junior
Speaker 1: senator and upstart, was because his campaign had the impression
Speaker 1: of this thing is locked down, it's effectively run, it's
Speaker 1: effectively man it's like, Okay, maybe he is up to
Speaker 1: the task.
Speaker 3: Not a good first impression.
Speaker 1: I guess this is like probably the most diplomatic thing
Speaker 1: I could say at this point.
Speaker 2: It was a bad impression. It gives it. Here's the
Speaker 2: other thing. You know, media is already out for blood
Speaker 2: with Ron de Santas. So the thing is it's your
Speaker 2: job to not give them anything, to give them nothing
Speaker 2: to work with. So all they have to do is
Speaker 2: cover the text and of the announcement of the actual
Speaker 2: substance of what he is promising. And you know, unfortunately
Speaker 2: for him, that's just not going to be the headline.
Speaker 2: Like I said, the Daily Mail first thing that they
Speaker 2: lead with finally underway after twenty six minutes of glitches.
Speaker 2: Then yeh, rips Disney for you know, injecting gender ideology
Speaker 2: like that could have been the headline out of it.
Speaker 2: And that's what you and I could have been talking
Speaker 2: about it. Forday, we will spend a lot of time
Speaker 2: tomorrow more a little bit on the substance of Most
Speaker 2: of what he wanted to initially focus on was the
Speaker 2: reaction to COVID gender ideology. You will resign you know,
Speaker 2: wokeism or woke ideology to the dust beIN pretty cookie
Speaker 2: cutter stuff for his speech it is.
Speaker 1: I mean it's very cookie cutter Ron DeSantis. But I
Speaker 1: do think the decision to launch on Twitter and the
Speaker 1: choice of topics that he leans into, I mean really
Speaker 1: no bread and butter issues, right, No healthcare, no wages,
Speaker 1: no cod very little, very light on those topics. It's
Speaker 1: all like the woke mind virus and DEI and ESG
Speaker 1: and all of these things that a lot of normal
Speaker 1: people would be like, what the hell are you been
Speaker 1: talking about right now? I think that that is a
Speaker 1: symptom of him being way too online, which is how
Speaker 1: you end up thinking that it's a good idea to
Speaker 1: launch your presidential campaign on Twitter, a platform that even
Speaker 1: if it had all gone well, a tiny slice of
Speaker 1: the public uses even tinier slice of the public has
Speaker 1: ever used Twitter spaces or even heard of Twitter spaces.
Speaker 1: So I do think that that's emblematic of a deeper
Speaker 1: issue for him of you know, is this really going
Speaker 1: to be what your average normal, non super online Republican
Speaker 1: voter is looking for in a candidate, Because I do
Speaker 1: think he suffers from being in those like online conservative
Speaker 1: echo chamber conversations way too much.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I think so. He did a little bit
Speaker 2: in his speech. He was talking about net migration, all
Speaker 2: that stuff. That's that to me, that is the best
Speaker 2: case for DeSantis. The best case is look at the scoreboard.
Speaker 8: I won.
Speaker 2: I flipped a purple state into a red state. Millions
Speaker 2: of people moved to me because I did a good job.
Speaker 2: Now let's make America the same as Florida. Like that
Speaker 2: is actually a great message, but you have got to
Speaker 2: make sure that you're connecting it in a way where
Speaker 2: it can not only resonate with the primary voter, the
Speaker 2: GOP primary voter, which of course you know has all
Speaker 2: of these culture war things that they want to hear about,
Speaker 2: but also this isn't just your kickoff to them, it's
Speaker 2: your kickoff to everybody. So anyway, failure to launch, that's
Speaker 2: already what that's already what the Trump campaigns going.
Speaker 9: Man.
Speaker 2: They are having an absolute feel day. It's got to be.
Speaker 2: I've got my Twitter feed in front of me, Crystal.
Speaker 2: They have already released a video mocking and making fun
Speaker 2: of him, cutting together of his of the Twitter spaces.
Speaker 2: They've they've they've been saying, like, oh more people watch
Speaker 2: CNM than are listening to Meatball rob So they're going
Speaker 2: all in in terms of against him. And look, I
Speaker 2: mean this is part people will be like, oh, you're
Speaker 2: being unfair. Look what we're doing is we know Crystal,
Speaker 2: you and I Trump will reach for anything, so will
Speaker 2: the media. It's your job not to give them anything
Speaker 2: to work with. You gave it to work with them.
Speaker 2: And he's gonna he's gonna be hearing about this one
Speaker 2: for a long time.
Speaker 1: You're running to be, you know, the chief executive of
Speaker 1: the country in a way, you know you're running. You're
Speaker 1: you're trying to run the whole show here. If you
Speaker 1: can't even handle your own campaign launch, it's not a
Speaker 1: great first statement about how you do managing the country.
Speaker 2: Yes, so we will have a ton more for you
Speaker 2: guys tomorrow, more elements and everything, a full breakdown of
Speaker 2: the DeSantis interview tonight on Fox. He's gonna have also
Speaker 2: an interview with Mark Levin. We will have a breakdown
Speaker 2: of his video, even more thoughts and things about how
Speaker 2: he's positioning himself. We want to give everybody a quick
Speaker 2: emergency reaction and thank you all for our premium describers
Speaker 2: who enable our ability for the whole team to just
Speaker 2: mobilize like this on a dime and post it and
Speaker 2: make sure it gets up to everyone Breakingpoints dot com
Speaker 2: if you are able. Otherwise, we'll see your beautiful faces
Speaker 2: bright and early tomorrow morning.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's right.
Speaker 1: Personally, I don't know if I've ever enjoyed a presidential
Speaker 1: launch more.
Speaker 2: It was fun.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 5: Rob.
Speaker 2: My fiance was like, what are you doing in there,
Speaker 2: because Lily sitting cackling. I was like, I cannot Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was too profane to say here, but it was
Speaker 2: pretty bad. I was. I was, I was laughing. I
Speaker 2: was truely laughing. We'll see you guys later. Bye,