WEBVTT - How to Structure Green New Deal Finance

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg Law with June Grasso from Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>The Green New Deal is a program put forth by

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<v Speaker 1>progressive Democrats calling for fighting the climate crisis an economic

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<v Speaker 1>inequality simultaneously. In last week's debate, Democratic presidential nominee Joe

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<v Speaker 1>Biden said he does not support the Green New Deal,

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<v Speaker 1>putting forth his own plan. Joining me is the economist

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<v Speaker 1>who put together the Green New Deal finance plan, Robert Hockett,

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<v Speaker 1>a professor at Cornell Law School. His new book is

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<v Speaker 1>called Financing the Green New Deal, A Plan of Action

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<v Speaker 1>and Renewal. So, Bob, tell us why you decided to

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<v Speaker 1>write the book. I've been sort of worried, as I

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<v Speaker 1>think a lot of people have been worried for at

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<v Speaker 1>least a decade now, that our financial system has sort

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<v Speaker 1>of lost touch with its sort of original purposes, at

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<v Speaker 1>least with some of them. Right, I mean, the primary

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<v Speaker 1>purpose of financial system is to enable productive activity, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And insofar as there's speculative activity in the form of

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<v Speaker 1>adding on price movements and secondary markets or tertiary derivative

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<v Speaker 1>markets or the like, that's basically in order to enable

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<v Speaker 1>capital to be lower priced than the primary markets where

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<v Speaker 1>productive investments to take place. And it seems that what's

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<v Speaker 1>happened in recent techcades in our financial system is that

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<v Speaker 1>the secondary in tertiary markets have become much more important,

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<v Speaker 1>much larger in terms of transaction volume or turnover or

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<v Speaker 1>turn than the primary market cap, which suggests that we're

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<v Speaker 1>less focused on production and productive activity now and more

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<v Speaker 1>focused on gambling, basically on speculating as where prices are

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<v Speaker 1>going to go. And what's sort of interesting about that

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<v Speaker 1>fact is if you compare that fact with what the

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<v Speaker 1>founders of the Federal Reserve seem to have been in

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<v Speaker 1>mind back in nineteen thirteen, it would suggest that our

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<v Speaker 1>financial system is really kind of really way out of

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<v Speaker 1>whack relative to what the FED was originally meant to

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<v Speaker 1>be doing. Um. And so, in so far as we

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<v Speaker 1>see the FED basically back stopping a system that's primarily

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<v Speaker 1>about speculation, we see a FED that is also in

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<v Speaker 1>some ways, you know, acting outside of its original sort

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<v Speaker 1>of mandate, or at least in manners that are not

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<v Speaker 1>altogether consistent with that original mandate. So what I've done

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<v Speaker 1>is I've done a bit of back research on sort

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<v Speaker 1>of what the founders had in mind what was being

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<v Speaker 1>talked about and discussed when the fact was created, and

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<v Speaker 1>it turns out to be quite fascinating. UM, and it

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<v Speaker 1>kind of it gives us guidance is to how to

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<v Speaker 1>bring the financial system back into sort of sink with

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<v Speaker 1>what it's really originally meant to be, and how to

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<v Speaker 1>bring the FED back into sink with what it was

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<v Speaker 1>meant to be. And it also sort of explains certain

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<v Speaker 1>things about the FED that are otherwise puzzling. So some

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<v Speaker 1>people sort of think, well, what is the FED anyway?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, what is it with those? We seem to

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<v Speaker 1>have these regional set banks and then there's this fetboard

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<v Speaker 1>in DC, and what's the relation between them? You know?

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<v Speaker 1>And people get so confused in some cases that somebody

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<v Speaker 1>will refer to the Federal Reserve Bank, which you know

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<v Speaker 1>isn't the thing. There is no the Federaliserve Bank. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a Federal Reserve Board, and then there are regional federi

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<v Speaker 1>reserve banks. Tell us then what the founders had in mind? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>what the founders see you have had in mind in

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<v Speaker 1>the first place, Um, with this sort of two tear struff,

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<v Speaker 1>sure was precisely that the regional Federal Reserve banks would

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<v Speaker 1>facilitate the free flowing of credit to productive purposes startup companies,

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<v Speaker 1>small businesses, community banks, all the sorts of things you

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<v Speaker 1>might expect a growing and newly productive or growingly productive

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<v Speaker 1>economy that's divided into various regions of the whole continent

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<v Speaker 1>to look like, right, And so a big and important

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<v Speaker 1>activity that those banks did was to what was called

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<v Speaker 1>discounts commercial paper of various kinds issued by again small, small,

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<v Speaker 1>small firms, startups and the like. This is why to

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<v Speaker 1>this day we still call the you know, the discounting

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<v Speaker 1>operations that are carried out through section thirteen at the

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<v Speaker 1>Federal Reserve Act discounting and while we refer to a

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<v Speaker 1>discount window. But so that was the purpose of those

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<v Speaker 1>regional dead banks, and then the Federal Reserve Board in DC,

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<v Speaker 1>as supplemented twenty years later by a newly created f

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<v Speaker 1>O m C in the thirties, was designed to kind

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<v Speaker 1>of oversee credit aggregates nationwide to basically prevent there from

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<v Speaker 1>being an excess of credit money in the economy, which

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<v Speaker 1>can be inflationary, but also of course to counteract deflationary

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<v Speaker 1>pressures when there's when there's contractions, which of course, is

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<v Speaker 1>what QUI is about. And so what we seem to

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<v Speaker 1>have right now, as we seem to have retained the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of aggregative mission the feted board or what I

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<v Speaker 1>call the credit modulatory mission. If that's pretty good about

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<v Speaker 1>adjusting the money supply right and counteracting deflations and counteracting

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<v Speaker 1>inflation for that matter. It's pretty good with that modulatory task,

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<v Speaker 1>as I call it, but we've completely dropped the allocative task.

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<v Speaker 1>We're just not doing allocation in the way that the

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<v Speaker 1>regional fed banks were meant to do. So. Finally, the

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<v Speaker 1>final point of the HID and the punchline here is

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<v Speaker 1>that these new facilities that the FT has just opened

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<v Speaker 1>up as a april to deal with the pandemic, notably

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<v Speaker 1>the Municipal Liquidity Facility or m l APP, which is

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<v Speaker 1>run out of the New York FED, and then the

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<v Speaker 1>so called main Street Lending program that's run out of

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<v Speaker 1>the Boston FED. I think, is this a wonderful opportunity,

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<v Speaker 1>in effect to rediscover and reinstitute that original mission that

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<v Speaker 1>the Federal Reserve regional banks had um But we would

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<v Speaker 1>only be able to do that if we change a

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<v Speaker 1>couple of things about the way we're running those programs

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<v Speaker 1>right now. So right now, as you know, MLF is

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<v Speaker 1>there to help out small towns, cities, and states across

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<v Speaker 1>the Union that are having difficulty dealing with the pandemic fallout.

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<v Speaker 1>It's odd then to be running it out of just

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<v Speaker 1>the New York FED And I used to work there,

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<v Speaker 1>and lots of my old friends and colleagues so I

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<v Speaker 1>used to work with are still there. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>they're the most brilliant and the most serious public servants

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<v Speaker 1>in the country. I mean, they're amazing and wonderful people,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's a fairly small number of them, and the

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<v Speaker 1>thought that they should be given are sort of saddled

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<v Speaker 1>with the responsibility of determining the real credit needs or

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<v Speaker 1>otherwise of Peoria and Oahu and Billings, Montana from right

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<v Speaker 1>here in low in Manhattan. Seems a bit much, right.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't seem good for the program, it doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 1>good for the cities or states, and it doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 1>good for the bad personnel themselves or that the FRBN

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<v Speaker 1>wine similar story when it comes to the Main Street

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<v Speaker 1>Landing Program, which is a set of several facilities run

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<v Speaker 1>out of the Boston Debt now Here too, right I mean, again,

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<v Speaker 1>the Boston bed folk are wonderful. I worked with a

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<v Speaker 1>good many of them in the past, and there's just

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<v Speaker 1>this is not meant in any way to kind of

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<v Speaker 1>question their capacities or abilities. But why would Boston be

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<v Speaker 1>handling the financial needs of you know, uh Nick Nails

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<v Speaker 1>in in Los Angeles or Harriet's attractor Repair in Farco, Dakota.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, I mean, it doesn't make a lot of sense,

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<v Speaker 1>um and what we have here. It seems to me

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<v Speaker 1>he's a golden opportunity to sort of redistribute um the

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<v Speaker 1>sort of regional FED banks original functions to the regional

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<v Speaker 1>Fed banks, Right, so San Francisco FED would handle both

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<v Speaker 1>main street lending and MLF funding out west in the northwest,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Dallas FED would handle it in the southwest,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Atlanta FED would handle it in the southeast

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<v Speaker 1>and so on. And this, I think would bring the

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<v Speaker 1>regional feds back into sync with their original missions. He

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<v Speaker 1>would demise these programs which we now have but which

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<v Speaker 1>are not operating very well, presidedly because they're all concentrated

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<v Speaker 1>in a couple of bed banks in the northeast. And

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<v Speaker 1>it would also basically give us an opportunity to sort

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<v Speaker 1>of re re orient ourselves and our bed, our central

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<v Speaker 1>things to the task of productive lending and productive investment

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<v Speaker 1>rather than merely speculative investing in speculative lending, because what

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<v Speaker 1>happens in New York, which the New York that looks over,

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<v Speaker 1>is mainly that. And that's fine, that's what's supposed to

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<v Speaker 1>happen in New York. But we don't want, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>all of the credit of the country to be going

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<v Speaker 1>towards speculative setting in New York when you have real

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<v Speaker 1>credit needs out in South Dakota or out in Arizona

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<v Speaker 1>or where have you. So so that's basically what I

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<v Speaker 1>what I've been sort of putting out there. That's the

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<v Speaker 1>I've been using a shorthand for as a slogan. I

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<v Speaker 1>call it spread bed, but we could just well call

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<v Speaker 1>it respread the FED, because that was sort of the

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<v Speaker 1>original purpose in the first place. So let me ask

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<v Speaker 1>you a basic question. You know, when you talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the Constitution, you have the originalists or the textualists. So

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<v Speaker 1>is this sort of an originalist kind of theory You're

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<v Speaker 1>going to go back to what the FED was? Has

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<v Speaker 1>the FED been evolving into what the country needed. So

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<v Speaker 1>I think in a certain sense both right, My view

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<v Speaker 1>is that the as far as the modulatory task goes right,

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<v Speaker 1>in other words, as far as the oversight of national

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<v Speaker 1>credit aggregates is concerned, the FED has evolved into what

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<v Speaker 1>has been needed, and furthermore, that was actually foreseen by

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<v Speaker 1>the framers themselves of the Federal Reserve Act. It's it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's precisely why they didn't make the FED simply a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of regional banks, but they put a single board

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<v Speaker 1>on top of the mall right. So if you think

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<v Speaker 1>of the apex of the system, or say tier one

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<v Speaker 1>of the systems, the Federal Reserve Board and DC, that

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<v Speaker 1>is indeed meant to be looking over credit conditions nationwide

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<v Speaker 1>and modulating our credit aggregates to prevent inflation on the

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<v Speaker 1>one handed, deflation on the other. And you know, it

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<v Speaker 1>didn't do that extremely well in the first years after

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<v Speaker 1>its founding, and indeed kind of spectacular failed in the

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<v Speaker 1>twenties and early thirties in doing that. But some additional

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<v Speaker 1>reforms that we added on, and notably the Federal Open

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<v Speaker 1>Market Committee in the early nineteen thirties during a new deal,

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<v Speaker 1>have sort of optimized it. And made the FED board

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<v Speaker 1>essentially more able to do even what the framers themselves

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to do. And again I applauded out the wazoo.

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<v Speaker 1>And when it comes to that kind of thing, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't applaud Greenspan, but I think Bernanti and Yellen

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<v Speaker 1>and j. Pale had been absolutely masterful in their use

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<v Speaker 1>of that functionality. And the same goes for William mc

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<v Speaker 1>chesney Martin who was the bet chair back in the

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<v Speaker 1>sixties and fifties. Right. Um, so we've had in Nurner

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<v Speaker 1>equals of course during the during the Great Depression was

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<v Speaker 1>a terrific Beet chair. But but what we lost sight of,

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<v Speaker 1>well we sort of let disappear, was what what I'm

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<v Speaker 1>calling Tier two was meant to do, and that's the

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<v Speaker 1>regional dead banks. Um. My researchers system actually put it

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<v Speaker 1>really best. Recently. I just I laughed out loud. It

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<v Speaker 1>was so good. We were talking together about the regional

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<v Speaker 1>dedbanks and she said, don't they just write papers and stuff?

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<v Speaker 1>And it burst out laughing. Yeah, that is exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>they do. They write papers and stuff, unless it's the

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<v Speaker 1>New York that which has more operational responsibilities. Um. But

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<v Speaker 1>the thing is the thing to remember is they write

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<v Speaker 1>papers and stuff for original purposes that they were created

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<v Speaker 1>to discharge. And the fact is that not being used

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<v Speaker 1>to discharge those purposes now. And if they were being

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<v Speaker 1>used in that way, these research papers that they're pretty

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<v Speaker 1>together would actually have a great deal of use, right um,

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<v Speaker 1>and they would actually I think, make the system work better. Right.

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<v Speaker 1>Another way to say this that it's sort of keyed

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<v Speaker 1>to the way that you framed the question, is to

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<v Speaker 1>say that the things that have changed since the Federal

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<v Speaker 1>Reserve Acts passage are such that they have made it

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<v Speaker 1>importance to kind of fine tune and optimize the Federal

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<v Speaker 1>Reserve Board at the top of the system. And we

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<v Speaker 1>have thankfully done that. But things that have changed over

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<v Speaker 1>the last hundred years since nineteen thirteen also suggests ways

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<v Speaker 1>that we can optimize two or two of the system,

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<v Speaker 1>the regional Federal Reserve in A big part of that optimization,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, is to recover that original vision, sort of speaker,

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<v Speaker 1>that original mission that they were meant to have, which

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<v Speaker 1>was to facilitate um actual productive investment in different regions

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<v Speaker 1>of the country that have different economies. Tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>how you got involved and what you've done towards the

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<v Speaker 1>Green New Deal. Yeah. Sure. So the way that happened,

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<v Speaker 1>it was kind of fun. UM. When Alexandria kacio Pertz

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<v Speaker 1>won her election in November of about two years ago. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>she had been working with a group called New Consensus

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<v Speaker 1>that was sort of part of a movement, UH to

0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:44.280
<v Speaker 1>sort of discover and help bring to national attention really

0:11:44.320 --> 0:11:49.480
<v Speaker 1>great minds and energetic young political figures like Alex, like

0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:54.200
<v Speaker 1>like the congresswoman. UM. And the head of this group

0:11:55.120 --> 0:11:58.719
<v Speaker 1>was married it still is, and his spouse had been

0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:01.960
<v Speaker 1>a student of mine in the recent past. UH. And

0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:04.360
<v Speaker 1>so when it came time to draft the Green New

0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Deal resolution and then to work on other aspects of

0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:11.480
<v Speaker 1>the Green New Deal, she recommended me to her husband

0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.760
<v Speaker 1>said that, you know, I guess she overestimated me or

0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 1>like the classes or whatever. But in any event, so

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.560
<v Speaker 1>they reached out and asked if I could help out,

0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:21.920
<v Speaker 1>UM with the preparation of the resolution that was of

0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:27.120
<v Speaker 1>course introduced UH in early February. UH. And then after

0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.319
<v Speaker 1>that early February twenty nineteen, I should say, then it's

0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:32.760
<v Speaker 1>sort of at the same time, asked me to write

0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:35.640
<v Speaker 1>up a sort of a light paper explaining the Green

0:12:35.640 --> 0:12:37.520
<v Speaker 1>New Deal and sort of to make it clear what

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the resolution was for and what it was about. So

0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:47.319
<v Speaker 1>I wrote that up as well in December and January UM.

0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.760
<v Speaker 1>And then starting in March of en they asked if

0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:53.920
<v Speaker 1>I could put together the finance plan for the Green

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:58.160
<v Speaker 1>New Deal UM. So I just basically threw myself into

0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:00.800
<v Speaker 1>that with pretty much all that I had UH and

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:04.120
<v Speaker 1>was able to draft up at least the skeleton of

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.760
<v Speaker 1>a full finance plan within a few weeks UH and

0:13:07.760 --> 0:13:10.199
<v Speaker 1>and gave that to them and they liked it. UM.

0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:14.440
<v Speaker 1>And then before long Paul griff McMillan, the publishing company who,

0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:16.960
<v Speaker 1>to my joy, happened to be the publishers of all

0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:20.000
<v Speaker 1>at the works of John Maynard Keynes UM, had apparently

0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:21.360
<v Speaker 1>got wind of the fact that I had written up

0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:22.880
<v Speaker 1>this finance plan and they asked me if I'd like

0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.360
<v Speaker 1>to publish it as a monograph or a book. UH.

0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 1>And I said, oh my god, I'd be totally honored,

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 1>you know. So UM, I sort of flushed it out

0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more, added a little bit to it,

0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.000
<v Speaker 1>build it out a bit more UM and turned it

0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:39.800
<v Speaker 1>into a monograph and that was happily published. UM. A

0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:41.959
<v Speaker 1>couple of months ago, I guess, um, just the very

0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 1>beginning of August it sort of came out officially, and

0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.640
<v Speaker 1>that basically lays out a whole plan for how to

0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.680
<v Speaker 1>finance a green new deal, and that in turn includes

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.920
<v Speaker 1>a great deal of sort of structural tweaking you might say,

0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.080
<v Speaker 1>of our financial system and sort of changes no more

0:13:57.200 --> 0:13:59.680
<v Speaker 1>and no less than has to be changed. Basically, what

0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:03.000
<v Speaker 1>it is a sort of adds connecting lines, you might say,

0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:07.440
<v Speaker 1>between various public and private financial institutions that we already have. Well,

0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 1>what's your take on the national investment bank proposals? I

0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 1>think one thing that we see going on right now

0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 1>in Congress especially but also more broadly, there's a heightened

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 1>discussion under way of the problem or the need for

0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 1>national investment in a big way. And so there are

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.520
<v Speaker 1>a lot of sort of national investment bank proposals that

0:14:26.560 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 1>are now being considered in Congress, probably about ten or

0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.200
<v Speaker 1>twelve of them that I can count that are that

0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:34.800
<v Speaker 1>have been offered by various members of Congress. The idea

0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.040
<v Speaker 1>would be something kind of like the European investment banks,

0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:40.200
<v Speaker 1>some kind of a national development that. Um, I think

0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 1>that if we got the FED right. It could be

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.200
<v Speaker 1>that development banking that we were meant to have or

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.360
<v Speaker 1>that we should have, but that would involve having the

0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:54.560
<v Speaker 1>regional banks again reclaimed that old mission. Um So when

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:56.560
<v Speaker 1>I say sort of spread the FED in a way,

0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm also addressing, uh, those people who are talking of

0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.240
<v Speaker 1>out the need for national investment. Uh. The other thing

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.840
<v Speaker 1>kind of collateral to this, are sort of complementing this.

0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>It's in the book. Um is something I call for.

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 1>So we call for called a National Reconstruction and Development Commission.

0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:17.360
<v Speaker 1>It's a kind of f stock like body that would

0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.880
<v Speaker 1>basically just combine all of the cabinet level executive agencies

0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:24.640
<v Speaker 1>of our government into one council that would basically plan

0:15:24.920 --> 0:15:28.280
<v Speaker 1>national development strategy on a regular basis, and they would

0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:30.840
<v Speaker 1>regularly update national Development strategy in the same way that

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:35.800
<v Speaker 1>the Department of Defense every year updates national Defense strategy.

0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Because I think we meant the terrible mistake that's actually

0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.400
<v Speaker 1>connected to the mistake of losing the original vision of

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:44.760
<v Speaker 1>the regional banks, when we decided that development is something

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.440
<v Speaker 1>that's like a one off thing. You know, you're undeveloped

0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:48.960
<v Speaker 1>and then you flip the switch and you're developed, And

0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.680
<v Speaker 1>that's it. I think the development is forever. Development is continuous.

0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Development is perpetual in the same way that technological development

0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:58.680
<v Speaker 1>is perpetual, right. I mean, we don't just sort of

0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.440
<v Speaker 1>have no technology and then have technology and that's it.

0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 1>Technology is continually evolved in And it seems that national development,

0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:10.160
<v Speaker 1>which is sort of short for shorthand for national technological development,

0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.720
<v Speaker 1>should be perpetual too, And so we need some way

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.920
<v Speaker 1>of I think publicly and comprehensively considering and planning national

0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.680
<v Speaker 1>development strategy. And so what I call a f sock

0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>for continuous public investment or an f sock for continual

0:16:25.760 --> 0:16:29.520
<v Speaker 1>national investment UM would be a good idea that would

0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.640
<v Speaker 1>be a nice ancillary body to work in tandem with

0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.680
<v Speaker 1>this newly spread FED as I'm calling it. We do that,

0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 1>I think we can really solve pretty much every major

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 1>problem that we've had of a financial or economic nature

0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.240
<v Speaker 1>over the last fifty years. And if we do that,

0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:45.880
<v Speaker 1>I think we'll solve a lot of our social and

0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.880
<v Speaker 1>political problems too, because they're all rooting in the economic ones.

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.000
<v Speaker 1>That's Robert Hawcket of Cornell Law School. And that's it

0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:55.080
<v Speaker 1>for this edition of The Bloomberg Law Show. I'm June Grosso.

0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Bloomberg