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Speaker 1: Madonna showed you what gay was before you know what

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Speaker 1: gay is completely.

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Speaker 2: Donna, I think probably is like the gay to way

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Speaker 2: drag for a lot of gay people.

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Speaker 1: She's sheen a.

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Speaker 3: Me, no me, not my name?

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Speaker 4: Yo?

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Speaker 1: What is your childhood? Us?

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Speaker 5: I am chok a.

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Speaker 1: Your life's going down the floor like.

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Speaker 5: Round.

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Speaker 2: This conversation feels a long time coming because our podcast

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Speaker 2: is literally named after a Madonna song, and when we

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Speaker 2: launched it, we asked her please not to sue us,

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Speaker 2: and she hasn't, so oh thank god.

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Speaker 1: Madonna is not a super litigious person, although I think

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Speaker 1: she could be proven wrong. We could be proven wrong

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Speaker 1: at any moment. There could be drones waiting outside all

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Speaker 1: of our homes right now, And lucky for us, we

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Speaker 1: also have noted scholar of Madonna ology, Lewis Frattel, I

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Speaker 1: actually am so scared to talk about Madonna with you

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Speaker 1: because you know so much about her. Is that an understatement?

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Speaker 5: Well, once upon a time I would have said I'm

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Speaker 5: in the top point one percentile of Madonna super fans,

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Speaker 5: but in the past few years have become less encyclopedic

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Speaker 5: about like every track she's released, every album she's released,

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Speaker 5: because you know, they're like not as good. Yeah, but no, no, No,

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Speaker 5: I'm like, it's like it, would you say that started

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Speaker 5: with MDNA?

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Speaker 3: I honestly will. I'll say this.

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Speaker 5: I feel like most Madonna albums gain like credibility in time.

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Speaker 5: Like I remember when music came out and thinking, oh,

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Speaker 5: this is like a little annoying that she's doing a

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Speaker 5: cow boy thing. Is she's just doing it because she hasn't.

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Speaker 3: Done it before.

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Speaker 5: It didn't feel organic to her brand at the time,

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Speaker 5: And now I think it's like an amazing album. That said,

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Speaker 5: and the album since, like like hard Candy even that's

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Speaker 5: gained something for me in the time since.

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Speaker 3: But m DNA m DNA has not really, even though

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Speaker 3: I like about five or six of the songs on it.

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Speaker 1: Do Madonna Stands have a name?

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Speaker 5: No, because obviously it predates the idea of standing right,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean? You really just start a

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Speaker 5: gay guy who's thirty eight?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, white guy.

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Speaker 2: I guess Madonna Stands are just faggots. But could we

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Speaker 2: retroactively give Madonna stans a name like Little Madonasters or something.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it has to be less cute in

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Speaker 5: the Lady Gaga realm and just more you know, like

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Speaker 5: it also has to pertain to an era of Madonna

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Speaker 5: that all gay fans are obsessed with. Something I'm always

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Speaker 5: fascinated with is that you will never meet, specifically a

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Speaker 5: gay Madonna fan whose favorite song is like a Virgin, you.

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Speaker 3: Will never you know, and that's still like her not.

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Speaker 5: I think Take a Bow is technically her biggest song,

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Speaker 5: but like like a Virgin is maybe her most definitive.

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Speaker 3: So it would have to do something with voguing or

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Speaker 3: posing or something like that. I don't know, posers.

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Speaker 2: As someone who okay, well put that in Wikipedia.

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Speaker 1: As someone who didn't really experience like Madonna's like single

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Speaker 1: singles in real time, or like just to understand a

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Speaker 1: lot of like the arc of her music trajectory. Why

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Speaker 1: is La Isla Bonita one of her most famous songs?

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Speaker 1: I don't it's so good?

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Speaker 3: It's so good.

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Speaker 1: No, it's not, it's one of her best. Guys are

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Speaker 1: making me feel crazy, It's it's not a good song.

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Speaker 1: I'm yes, no, no, no, I knew. I'm scared. I was

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Speaker 1: scared of this moment. I'm going up against two Madonna

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Speaker 1: stands about how this is categorically just like a boring

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Speaker 1: song in comparison to the rest of her discography, Like

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Speaker 1: why is it so popular?

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Speaker 5: So when you're wrong, are you often long like this

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Speaker 5: because you should really like slow it down and listen,

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Speaker 5: get to the right.

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Speaker 2: Yes she is, that's what this whole pomecast. Okay, it's

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Speaker 2: just Fran being wrong.

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Speaker 1: Finally enough love Hi. I want to know why? Like

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Speaker 1: what so when this when this song came out? Like

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Speaker 1: what was the moment in her life? I kind of

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Speaker 1: want to paint a little bit of a picture of

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Speaker 1: like who she was, But like Lasla Blonita, what era

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Speaker 1: was that?

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Speaker 5: That's so that's true Blue And that was not the

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Speaker 5: first single or the second single on True Blue, but

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Speaker 5: it had been this blockbuster album and so it was

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Speaker 5: the follow up to I Believe, even the title track

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Speaker 5: and Open Your Heart and pop it on't Preach and

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Speaker 5: uh it's on the Immaculate Collection, and so it got

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Speaker 5: chosen over actually bigger hits like the number one Who's

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Speaker 5: That Girl is not on the Immaculate Collection, but while

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Speaker 5: Bonita is. This is also just the beginning of Madonna

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Speaker 5: being obsessed with other cultures and sort of intending to

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Speaker 5: be among them.

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Speaker 1: Right right right, right, right, right right I was just

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Speaker 1: curious because it's like she's a woman of the world,

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Speaker 1: always like in her like top three songs and like

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Speaker 1: like that people list, and I'm always confused. I was like,

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Speaker 1: did it come with a movie soundtrack? Like what was

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Speaker 1: the deal? Yeah, because I don't get it, but I

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Speaker 1: respect it. I respect I'll spend some more time with

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Speaker 1: la Isla Bonita. Do you guys have a favorite Madonna era?

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Speaker 1: I guess or should we? For the Virgins maybe talk

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Speaker 1: about like there's really no one place to start with Madonna,

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Speaker 1: whether it's her music or like who she is as

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Speaker 1: a star in creating this like archetype of stardom, her eras,

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Speaker 1: her fashion, like whatever.

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Speaker 2: Like I guess, like favorite Madonna album might be a

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Speaker 2: good ya.

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Speaker 1: To start favorite era? Can Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean I think her eras are so tied

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Speaker 2: to her album because Madonna is kind of one of

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Speaker 2: one of those artists who I and like, correct me

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Speaker 2: if I'm wrong, but like, I think she's one of

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Speaker 2: the artists who started this pop star tradition of having

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Speaker 2: the era be very tied to the album and oh

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Speaker 2: sure cycle reimagining her looks. Yeah, yeah, I'm very interested

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Speaker 2: to know Lewis, what's your favorite Madonna album.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's interesting because I actually would separate my favorite

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Speaker 5: album from era, like Okay, for me, the era would

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Speaker 5: be the Blonde Ambition Tour and and Vogue and the

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Speaker 5: Subs because that's when she was both the biggest star

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Speaker 5: in the world and also I would argue the coolest

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Speaker 5: star in the world, like.

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Speaker 3: She was pushing the most buttons.

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Speaker 5: She was like her celebrity orbit was crazy. She's obviously

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Speaker 5: with like Warren Beatty at the time. She had the

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Speaker 5: Sex Book come out right afterwards, so it's just all

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Speaker 5: this attention was paid to her, you know.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's the early nineties.

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Speaker 5: Like things like like Donald Trump is huge in the

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Speaker 5: New York celebrity way, and she's sort of adjacent to

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Speaker 5: that anyway. But my favorite album of hers is her

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Speaker 5: first album because I feel like, even pre fame, you

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Speaker 5: can hear the X factor that makes Madonna still unparalleled,

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Speaker 5: which is the like unquenched ambition, the I'm gonna have

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Speaker 5: the time of my life in front of everybody.

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Speaker 3: Everybody's gonna want to watch me, you know.

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm like the girl at dance Maeteryria, who

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Speaker 5: like everybody's gathered around. There's just something about me and

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Speaker 5: my stupid like you know, uh, flimsy men's wear and

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Speaker 5: bangles and uh just nerve that people can't get enough

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Speaker 5: of and so on that record. You know, she's not

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Speaker 5: famous at all yet. In fact, you know, there's some

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Speaker 5: rumors that a lot of listeners didn't even know she

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Speaker 5: was white, which feels crazy to me.

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Speaker 1: She sounds like a white why she's not like the

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Speaker 1: whitest woman.

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Speaker 5: Okay, but but you know, it's like it's it's hard disco,

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Speaker 5: you know, everybody, You've got Holiday, You've got Lucky Star, Borderline.

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Speaker 5: These are all such indelible songs, and I feel like

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Speaker 5: they fit so well and unpretentiously together, Like the whole

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Speaker 5: theme of the album is just Madonna, Like you know,

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Speaker 5: you want to be with her at the club and

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Speaker 5: she's cool and kind of laughing at your dance moves

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Speaker 5: while everybody hits on her.

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Speaker 1: You know, honestly that that like star quality is something

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Speaker 1: that she just had from the very beginning. And honestly,

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Speaker 1: this is like why she always gets the Gaga comparisons,

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Speaker 1: because Gaga was also one of those people that, like

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Speaker 1: she treated herself like an a lister when she was

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Speaker 1: like performing at like you know, pubs or whatever to

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Speaker 1: like rooms of fifteen people, and that was like very

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Speaker 1: Madonna too, But like I'm trying not to jump around.

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Speaker 1: I want to stay in your era. But like when

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Speaker 1: I just watched Truth or Dare for the first time,

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Speaker 1: and watching her in in that is like you understand

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Speaker 1: why everyone is so immediately attracted to her. You can't

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Speaker 1: stop watching her. She's not even like an amazing vocalist

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Speaker 1: like her. I mean she is, but like her voice

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Speaker 1: isn't the thing that brings her stardom. I think her

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Speaker 1: voice has like a kind of a very specific quality

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Speaker 1: that you know, lends itself to the music that she makes.

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Speaker 3: It's unmistakable. It's like Rihanna. You hear Rihanna? You know

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Speaker 3: it's reality.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah exactly. And like also like I yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like a lot of the songs that she does, or

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Speaker 1: rather a lot of the songs that she's famous for

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Speaker 1: on page or could be like really boring, but like

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Speaker 1: she adds something to them with her vocal quality that

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Speaker 1: I think I guess completes the package.

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Speaker 5: Yeah wait, okay, well that's kind of soulfulness and like undeniable,

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Speaker 5: like I will get in your face, it will be me.

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Speaker 3: You think about kind of.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Rose, what was your what was your favorite era

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Speaker 1: or rather favorite I guess that what were we different?

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Speaker 1: Different favorite era and favorite album?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I'm kind of similar and not. The

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Speaker 2: two are a little different from me. For me, I

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Speaker 2: think Ray of Light Madonna is my favorite era, like Kabbala,

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Speaker 2: like earth Mother Madonna I very much vibe with. But

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Speaker 2: then my favorite album is Confessions on.

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Speaker 5: A Dance for I really am proud of Faggots for

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Speaker 5: just saying that's gonna be our album, like we're going

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Speaker 5: to play that now forever. Like at the time, I

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Speaker 5: liked it, and I still obviously do like it, but

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Speaker 5: we've really anointed it like the definitive two thousands, like

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Speaker 5: gay pop album.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and it is. I have said this before.

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Speaker 2: If I could go back in time, if I had

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Speaker 2: a time machine, I would go back to see the

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Speaker 2: Confessions tour because it just is to me like that solidified.

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Speaker 2: You know, I grew up always being aware of Madonna's music.

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Speaker 1: I think in the way that we all were.

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Speaker 2: She wasn't really someone that you know, my parents were

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Speaker 2: really like featuring when I was younger, but I like

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Speaker 2: absorbed her through cultural osmosis and then like I think

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Speaker 2: I became more aware of her around American life, and

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Speaker 2: American Life is one of my favorite Madonna albums, and

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Speaker 2: like Die Another Day was a big moment for me.

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Speaker 3: I was still one of the most expensive music videos

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Speaker 3: of all time.

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Speaker 2: I kind of wish that we would go back to

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Speaker 2: that genre of Bond themes, like I want a poppier song.

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Speaker 1: They don't all need to be balanced.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it reminds you of being in a spy thriller. Yeah,

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Speaker 5: like dynamic totally.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I love how she kills herself in that video. It's

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Speaker 2: so fun. But I really think that Confessions was the

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Speaker 2: first time that I chose Madonna. I think Ray of

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Speaker 2: Light is when it started like percolating for me, and

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Speaker 2: then Confessions, I was like, oh, I am an active

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Speaker 2: participant in this album and it is the one that

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Speaker 2: I revisit the most often. Although I would say, you know,

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Speaker 2: Ray of Light, Confessions and maybe like Erotica are very

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Speaker 2: close behind in terms of the actual music.

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Speaker 5: What's upon a time you would have really like Erotica

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Speaker 5: defensive Gays being like that's her definitive era, her gayest era,

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Speaker 5: and now I feel like those people have evolved into Confessions.

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Speaker 5: People like that's our version of the Club Madonna. We

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Speaker 5: defend the most, you know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like Confessions came at a time where there

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Speaker 1: had been a handful of like lack luster albums or

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Speaker 1: the albums that people just like weren't as excited about following,

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Speaker 1: just like the multiple peaks in madonn on his career.

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Speaker 1: And so when she re emerged with the fucking Abba sample,

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Speaker 1: everyone was like, oh, like, oh, this is like a

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Speaker 1: song for pop music, literally defining pop music.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: No, actually it's comparable to Ray of Light in that

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Speaker 5: way where, Yeah, part of the excitement about that was

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Speaker 5: she did have Bedtime Stories had its hits and I

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Speaker 5: love that album, and she had the Vida soundtrack, which

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Speaker 5: of course is memorable in certain ways, but neither of

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Speaker 5: those things felt definitively her. And so when she kind

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Speaker 5: of came back into her own and Ray of Light,

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Speaker 5: there was this new like I remember, that's when I

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Speaker 5: became a Madonna fan. And for a moment there, we

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Speaker 5: really treated her like a Kennedy Center honoree, like We're like, oh,

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Speaker 5: she's back and important and Confessions is similar because it

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Speaker 5: had been preceded by American Life, which, though I like

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Speaker 5: the middle four through seven on that album, was an

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Speaker 5: album that utterly baffled people and also really became.

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Speaker 3: Like Ray of Light, you can tell when Madonna writes

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Speaker 3: the lyrics.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and.

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Speaker 5: She was going for a statement make on that album

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Speaker 5: in a way where I found them a bit circuitous

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Speaker 5: and a bit baffling. It's just just it wanted to

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Speaker 5: be important and it came up with confusing.

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Speaker 1: Wait did you?

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Speaker 2: Madonna does often, I think that's very true, wants to

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Speaker 2: be important, and it's usually when she's not trying to

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Speaker 2: be that she most effectively.

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Speaker 1: That is so te Oh my god. Yes, that's because.

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Speaker 5: Because I think ultimately she kind of took the wrong

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Speaker 5: lesson from the critical praise heaped on Ray of Light,

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Speaker 5: which was, you know, obviously that album is kind of

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Speaker 5: full of moody and occasionally pretentious statements like yeah, she's

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Speaker 5: sort of like she's.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh I've been so selfish.

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Speaker 5: Oh I you know, she's like renouncing the naughty parts

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Speaker 5: of herself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well it's like no, no, no, no, no, no, we love that.

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Speaker 3: No keep that, keep that, keep that.

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Speaker 5: And instead she became this like MOODI or lyricist this

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Speaker 5: you know again attempts at statement making, and they're just

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Speaker 5: not as fruitful as her being again a bitch in

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Speaker 5: front of everybody.

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Speaker 3: You know, yeah, I Madonna.

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Speaker 2: Madonna loves to make a statement, like when in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty when she performed at the Boom Boom Room and

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Speaker 2: wore a harness that said not my President on it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, y yes, things like yeah, or like there are

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Speaker 1: just times in her like the third quarter of her

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Speaker 1: discography where she's just like war is bad, right, like

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like she just has a

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Speaker 1: handful of songs like that. But wait, I'm going way back.

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Speaker 1: You use the word circuitous, and I need to know

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Speaker 1: what that means.

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Speaker 5: Now, just like well literally on American Life, the last

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Speaker 5: song easy Ride, the lyrics go in a circle, but

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Speaker 5: just it's like she's attempting to go for something provocative

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Speaker 5: and instead is coming up with like a loop of

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Speaker 5: cliches you've heard before. That's the number one thing that

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Speaker 5: bothers me about Madonna right now as a writer, is

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Speaker 5: I still feel like she's gunning. You know, she'll have

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Speaker 5: a song about gun control or whatever, which great by

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Speaker 5: all means do it. Yeah, but at the same time,

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Speaker 5: it can't just be filled with sentiments I've heard a

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Speaker 5: million times before that are novel to you because your

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Speaker 5: ear is not to the ground, like you don't know

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Speaker 5: what other people are already saying.

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Speaker 3: Like that's that's what bothers me about her child.

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Speaker 2: She is kind of her politics are, I mean now,

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Speaker 2: they're definitely like still kind of Trump era, if not

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Speaker 2: Obama era, Like Madonna's power actually used to be that,

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Speaker 2: like her and her team did have their finger on

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Speaker 2: the pulse of culture like that, like when we think

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Speaker 2: about something like Vogue, like that obviously feels like reductive

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Speaker 2: or appropriate if now, but like at the time, it's

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Speaker 2: just like nobody was doing that. Nobody was assembling like

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Speaker 2: a cool like under like undercurrent like subcultural group of

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Speaker 2: people that had never been amplified before, which is something

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Speaker 2: that pop stars.

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Speaker 1: Do now all the time, like and like put them

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Speaker 1: at the forefront, bring them along with you with you

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Speaker 1: on tour, create a whole song around an art form

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Speaker 1: that has not been appreciated like whatever. And even outside that,

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Speaker 1: like outside of the Vulgera. In so many different parts

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Speaker 1: of her life, she knew what was cool. She knew

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Speaker 1: the stars that were cool, she knew the people that

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Speaker 1: were cool. She was in all these circles with you know,

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Speaker 1: Keith Herring, Andy Warhol, right, all these different folks, and

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Speaker 1: now it just feels like, yeah, she's in her castle

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Speaker 1: and she doesn't know what's going on, Like it's sad.

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Speaker 2: Well, what I want to say is that I do

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Speaker 2: think that Madonna's politics were progressive when we actually needed

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Speaker 2: them to be, Like I think during the AIDS crisis,

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Speaker 2: like the way that she was a true ally to

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Speaker 2: queer people and would not stop talking about AIDS and

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Speaker 2: like using the platform that she had in a useful

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Speaker 2: way like she did that. I don't know that we

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Speaker 2: need Madonna to be like, you know, the kind of

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Speaker 2: like transgressor now like I think we maybe have moved

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Speaker 2: We as a society have moved past the need for

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Speaker 2: Madonna as like a political activist.

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Speaker 1: I guess right.

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Speaker 3: No, I definitely agree with that.

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Speaker 5: I mean, when you she's somebody like Elizabeth Taylor or

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Speaker 5: Diane Warwick, are those people who at the time were

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Speaker 5: like seemingly randomly speaking of you know, like there just

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Speaker 5: wasn't a cultural dialogue about these things and these people

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Speaker 5: who like you. From the beginning of time, you associate

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Speaker 5: Madonna with gay men. They're around her in every video,

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Speaker 5: you know, you watch the Open Your Heart video, and

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Speaker 5: she's like kind of performing being a fabulous woman for

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Speaker 5: a young gay boy. Like there's just something embedded in

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Speaker 5: her that was always I'm orienting this towards gayness, you know,

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Speaker 5: even if other people didn't detect it.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking a lot now about how you said that

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Speaker 1: the average Madonna fan is like a white thirty eight

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Speaker 1: year old gay man, and now I'm thinking about how

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Speaker 1: Madonna's politic is that of like a white thirty eight

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Speaker 1: year old gay man like her, well.

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Speaker 3: Older than that, honestly, right, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But it's like her, it's like her brain is like

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Speaker 1: trapped in this, you know, in this era.

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Speaker 5: I think the deal is she her instinct is to

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Speaker 5: lead with sort of agro politics, right, she went, like

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Speaker 5: in your face whatever, But she doesn't always back that

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Speaker 5: up with like the credulity, like the knowledge of exactly

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Speaker 5: what is happening at that given moment.

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Speaker 3: So I do miss that a little bit.

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Speaker 5: I had a friend once who said Madonna used to

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Speaker 5: be the Groucho Marx and now Madonna tends to be

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Speaker 5: the woman groucho Marx is duping you know no, which

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Speaker 5: is like a little rough, but at the same time,

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Speaker 5: like that was part of her power, that like witty, subversive,

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Speaker 5: righteous babe thing.

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Speaker 1: I kind of want to, like for the virgins, like

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Speaker 1: maybe paint a picture of like who she was as

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Speaker 1: a pop star when she emerged on the scene or

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Speaker 1: in like the first eras of her life. I want

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Speaker 1: to know. So I don't even know how to start

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Speaker 1: doing that. I honestly, if anybody listens to DJ Lewis

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Speaker 1: of the fourteenth podcast Pop Pantheon, he has this amazing

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Speaker 1: breakdown of like all her different eras, but like when

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Speaker 1: she emerged on the scene with like everybody from Michigan.

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Speaker 1: Is there any way that you could describe Lewis like

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Speaker 1: just Madonna who she was at the beginning?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, she was like the definitive New York club urchin.

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Speaker 5: So she was this person who she had classically trained dancer,

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Speaker 5: She went to University of Michigan, came to New York.

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Speaker 5: I mean, as she will now repeat fifty thousand times

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Speaker 5: at nauseum, had only thirty five dollars in her pocket,

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Speaker 5: and I was like, what is this like like dime

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Speaker 5: novel thing she has invented about herself. There's no way

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Speaker 5: she only had thirty five dollars, but anyway, moving on.

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Speaker 1: She should maybe have third thirty five hundred, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Right, something right. But you know, she was in bands

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Speaker 5: for a while. She's a band called The Breakfast Club.

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Speaker 5: She was in a band called Emmy and So, and

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Speaker 5: she did like nude photography on this so she just

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Speaker 5: had this sort of she really resembled the character in

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Speaker 5: Desperately Seeking Susan, and it remains crazy that that movie

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Speaker 5: was not written for her. The list of actresses it

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Speaker 5: almost was is so bizarre, and then you think of

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Speaker 5: Madonna and it feels like a biopic of hers almost.

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Speaker 5: So I mean she she kind of became like a

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Speaker 5: pop star, I don't want to say accidentally, but had

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Speaker 5: to move into it from this like band place she

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Speaker 5: was in, from this dancer place she was in. But

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Speaker 5: it was all oriented around like her passing like audio

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Speaker 5: tapes to like DJs and stuff, and then finally signing

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Speaker 5: with seymour Stein at Sire right, and then it was

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Speaker 5: like she really just jumped from the cool girl that

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Speaker 5: you maybe noticed once in a while in the club

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Speaker 5: to the cool girl everybody noticed, right, you know.

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Speaker 1: And Okay, so like through like like a Virgin I

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Speaker 1: guess True Blue nineteen eighty VMA performance material Girl, Rose,

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Speaker 1: do you have like a favorite kind of like vintage

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Speaker 1: Madonna moment? Like is there like obviously she's like forever

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Speaker 1: mood board, but is there something about like preliminary Madonna

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Speaker 1: that you were attracted to, either retroactively or like at

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Speaker 1: the time.

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Speaker 2: I guess so much of my experience of what we

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Speaker 2: would consider early Madonna is like so retroactive, like Sam,

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Speaker 2: so late in my like discovery of her that it

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Speaker 2: is more like it does come a little later, like

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Speaker 2: Blonde Ambition. Tor is for me like quintessential early Madonna,

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Speaker 2: even though I know it's not, you know, the earliest Madonna.

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Speaker 2: And also I guess, like you know that VMA's Vogue

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Speaker 2: performance of when they're all like in Marie Antoinette Drag

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Speaker 2: and you know, I think like the same things that

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Speaker 2: that everyone the same like cultural impressions that everyone has

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Speaker 2: of her, like the kne boom, like that.

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Speaker 3: That's not the only thing about her as a little kid,

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Speaker 3: the co cone boom.

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Speaker 2: And I think I I think I knew it because

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Speaker 2: of how focus Oh right, right, because the mom is

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Speaker 2: dressed up as Madonna and she has the cone boobs

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Speaker 2: and the headset.

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00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 5: Mic, wait, it's actually costume, still would work, it's.

439
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: Actually all three of us. Only thing I retained about

440
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 1: Madonna was cone boobs. But like, it's so funny that

441
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,120
Speaker 1: something that reductive actually does encapsulate Madonna perfectly, like it

442
00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:24,120
Speaker 1: is who she was doing something totally out of the ordinary,

443
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:29,640
Speaker 1: totally bizarre, completely sexual and yet not you know what I.

444
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 5: Mean, like bury both of those things like in your

445
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 5: face sexy and also laughing at the idea of sexuality,

446
00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:37,120
Speaker 5: which I think is like the core thing I love

447
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,800
Speaker 5: about her, like loves men yet laughs in their faces.

448
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: Like Madonna is definitely like a sex icon. But that's

449
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: also something about Gaga that I think is true, is

450
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: that Gaga is like something of a sex icon. But

451
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: like guys aren't like looking at Gaga and being like, yeah,

452
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,760
Speaker 1: Gota is really fucking hot, right, you know what I mean,

453
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,280
Speaker 1: Like it's I some of them have to be, right,

454
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously there's gotta be guys out there who

455
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: have jerked off to Madonna and Lady I don't know what,

456
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: I don't know what men think both of them to

457
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what men think, but I do I

458
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 1: think that it's like Madonna and Gaga. What I'm trying

459
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,920
Speaker 1: to say is just that they do have this thing

460
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 1: that's like sexual but not sexual quality. I think Madonna

461
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: was like more overtly sexual, like she was fucking you know,

462
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 1: she was a sex mom like her whole life.

463
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 3: I want to say about Lady Gaga.

464
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 5: When I was an intern for The Advocate in like

465
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 5: two thousand and eight, one of the weird amazing things.

466
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:31,119
Speaker 3: I got to do.

467
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 5: I got to interview Lady Gaga right when poker Face

468
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 5: was coming out and so like already by then, like

469
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 5: she had a crude, like a real gay following. But

470
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 5: I didn't know that much personal information about her other

471
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,399
Speaker 5: than she was allegedly a huge Madonna fan. So I

472
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 5: said to her, I was like, do you have a

473
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 5: favorite Madonna era? And she goes, definitely Erotica because they

474
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 5: couldn't even.

475
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:51,080
Speaker 3: Play it at two am.

476
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 5: And I was like, what a faggoty response Like that

477
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 5: really like legitimized her as somebody who was paying attention,

478
00:23:57,359 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 5: like knew the history really well. She talked about how

479
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 5: she loved Shnad O'Connor and I think, you know Marilyn Manson.

480
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 5: Of course they did the Love Game remix set time

481
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 5: after that, but I was like, all right, this is

482
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:11,120
Speaker 5: somebody who really pays attention to the past. And by

483
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 5: the way, that is also something from Madonna's early earliest

484
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 5: eras that I always loved about her, which is her

485
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 5: obsession with like old influences was very apparent, and that

486
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 5: really appealed to me, like the the Marilyn Monroe in

487
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 5: the Material Girl video, the like Marlena Dietrich and the

488
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 5: Erotica era. Just the idea that like stardom meant something

489
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 5: to her already even without her being a part of it.

490
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 5: So that really attracted me to how huge she became.

491
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 5: And then I mean, what do you think changed when

492
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 5: she did become the star? You know, because there was

493
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,879
Speaker 5: a time when Madonna was the most famous woman in

494
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 5: the world, And like, how do you think that?

495
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 2: Because I think that's interesting to see when you have

496
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: these celebrities, I think, especially pop stars who like start

497
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 2: their careers, like you know, creating that fantasy of fame,

498
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 2: like I mean Gaga is and like I have a

499
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 2: much more depth of knowledge on Gaga than I do Madonna,

500
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 2: but obviously there's so many parallels.

501
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,440
Speaker 1: But like Gaga in her early career, like her out

502
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: first albums literally called the fame, like it's about like,

503
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: you know, cause playing fame, and then I think it's

504
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 1: very interesting to see what happens to these women when

505
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,639
Speaker 1: they actually become super famous, and like I do think

506
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: one of Gaga is like the thing that happened to

507
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: her is like she got a little high off her

508
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,840
Speaker 1: own supply. But so like, what do you think happened

509
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 1: to Madonna when that switch happened and she.

510
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 5: Was like the girl, Yeah, I want to concur on

511
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:42,439
Speaker 5: Lady Gaga, by the way, because when that when the

512
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,159
Speaker 5: fame dropped. I just love the daffiness of the appreciation

513
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 5: of fame, of being like, isn't fame hilarious? Isn't fame amazing?

514
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 5: Look what you can do with fame? And she would,

515
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 5: you know, just show up to construction of fame. And

516
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 5: then once she became famous, I do think she had

517
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 5: to have a moment of what now, and I I

518
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 5: feel like she's still kind of navigating that in a way,

519
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 5: which is you know, you have to become humorless in

520
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 5: a way because you're such a huge brand, you have

521
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 5: a whole other thing you have to mind.

522
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 2: Well, that's why she I mean in like Star is born,

523
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: Like she's just cause playing a different kind of thing.

524
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 2: She's caused playing you know the movie Star right, which

525
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 2: Madonna also right, Yes, lady got got a little bit

526
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 2: more successfully.

527
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 5: But in terms of Donna being famous, I mean, like,

528
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 5: I think once she got kind of to the top

529
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 5: of the world is when she became extra interesting. Like

530
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 5: you know, that's when she's suddenly on dateline doing things

531
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,239
Speaker 5: like saying kids aren't educated about sex or you know,

532
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 5: if if her presentation of sex is so offensive, why

533
00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,480
Speaker 5: are they doing you know, why is it's such an

534
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 5: epidemic among like young people, Like she was like, like

535
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 5: she said, I can't be any worse than how the

536
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 5: way people are already taught about sex. For example, I

537
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 5: felt she was very observant about people, like she she

538
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 5: was superstartim as a perch. I think she took it

539
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:04,359
Speaker 5: as a way to be able to look at the

540
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 5: bigger picture and sort of sharpshoot problems.

541
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is that, And I think like post

542
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: material girl, there is something like in the Truth or

543
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: Dare era, the erotica sex book era we're in, she

544
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: really is genuinely like she is genuinely like controversial. She's

545
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,439
Speaker 1: genuinely like like going against the grain of like what

546
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: culture is telling her and like challenging ideas that people

547
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: just were not challenging at the time, and suffering for

548
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: them to some degree. I mean, obviously the controversy just

549
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: like blew up her stardom, but like her, you know,

550
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: concerts were being protested and her books, her book was

551
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: banned everywhere and like all these different complents. She lost

552
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: her I don't remember when she lost her pepsi dealer,

553
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 1: her Coca Cola dealer, whatever the fuck. Yeah, yeah, that

554
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: was also because of sex stuff. Like she was, you know,

555
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 1: constantly animized and and and I think that that is

556
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 1: just like a big part of like the arc where because.

557
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, it's like Enema's that was recently amazing.

558
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 1: It was so circuitous, and I was I was gonna

559
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: I was gonna say that, like I think that there's

560
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: this thing that happens to a lot of stars. I'm

561
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 1: thinking about RuPaul honestly, wherein you hit the kind of

562
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 1: like sophomore era of your life, and all of a

563
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: sudden you realize how many people fucking hate you, and

564
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: and you felt like that your whole entire life, and

565
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: so you're gonna let that embolden you and make your

566
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: presence bigger and bigger, and then you become an asshole,

567
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? And I don't know if

568
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: that I don't think that really. I think Madonna was

569
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: kind of always an asshole if you ever watch footage

570
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 1: of her, and I mean asshole. Yeah, I'm like using

571
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: that term loosely because she's just a woman that that

572
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: knew her own worth and people kind of had a

573
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,479
Speaker 1: problem with that or her whole life.

574
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: I also do think she's from stories I've heard, like,

575
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 2: I do think she is a little mean.

576
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: Oh, I think to to.

577
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 5: It would be disappointing, as like, oh, please don't be

578
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 5: genteel with me, Madonna.

579
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: Unzip your pants and take your fucking dick out right now.

580
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 4: Okay.

581
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 5: I actually feel like the thing that kept her kind

582
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 5: of genuinely controversial during that those like halcyon days is

583
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 5: also what really attracts gay men to her, which is

584
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 5: that like controversy starting thing. I don't think is oriented

585
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 5: in calculations so much as she is obsessed with not

586
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 5: being bored. And I feel like that is like a

587
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 5: crucial gay man thing, you know. It's like she's like,

588
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 5: are we really just sitting here doing normal fucking pop music?

589
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 3: What if we were actually amazing?

590
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 5: What if actually like I didn't have to act like

591
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 5: whoever the other raining pot like like I'm not fucking

592
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 5: Paula Abdul, I'm you know, it's like it's gonna be

593
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,520
Speaker 5: harder than that, and it's gonna be in your fucking face.

594
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 3: You know.

595
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 1: And I think that, I mean, that served her well

596
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: for so long.

597
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 2: I do think it now. I mean, and like we said,

598
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 2: we don't want to harp too much on Madonna's current

599
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 2: era because I'm sure it's none of our favorites. But

600
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: I think that's part of why she's releasing so many

601
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 2: of these fucking TikTok remixes of her classic songs, because

602
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: it's like she's bored with her own catalog, which is

603
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: why it's so absolutely interesting. Which, yeah, which is why

604
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: it's so interesting that she's about to embark on the

605
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: greatest hits or something she famously said she would never do.

606
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 2: And I'm like, I mean, I I don't currently have tickets.

607
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: I would like to go. I'm sure we'll figure out

608
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 2: a way somehow, but I don't really want to go

609
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,080
Speaker 2: and hear like two hours of TikTok remixes of you

610
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 2: know Madonna songs.

611
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,680
Speaker 1: I want to hear. I want I want to see

612
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: her perform them, even though, you know, like I trust

613
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: her when it comes to you know, live performance because

614
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the things that she does

615
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: the best. I talked about this.

616
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: Recently on the show, But I've seen Madnna twice, once

617
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 2: at World Pride and then I saw the amounam X

618
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: tour and it is the best concert I've ever seen.

619
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 2: And I do believe that whatever Madonna does, and I've

620
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 2: watched like so many of her you know, tour films,

621
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: and I think that's what she does better than maybe

622
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: any other like living performer, is live performances. So I

623
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 2: do kind of trust that. What have you how many

624
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: times have you seen her live?

625
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 5: I've only seen her twice, and I saw her on

626
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:45,680
Speaker 5: m DNA and Madam X, and I saw did you

627
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 5: see her at the Wiltern in La No?

628
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: I saw her at bam in Brooklyn.

629
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 3: See.

630
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 5: I wish I had seen her there. I think it's

631
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 5: more appropriate for that venue. The Wiltern is this sort

632
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 5: of stodgy place for this tour. It like it did,

633
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 5: like it was literally stuffy in the room. You know,

634
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 5: she's obsessed with how the air is whatever. You don't

635
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 5: have your phone, so the it just was not a slagh.

636
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 5: I was happy to have seen it. She made me

637
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 5: laugh a couple of times. I love the version of

638
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 5: Vogue on that tour, but otherwise, like my problem is

639
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 5: madamex also contains some of her worst ever songs. So

640
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 5: if I'm sitting there with and it's also it's so

641
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 5: it's so annoying because Madonna is such a name that

642
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 5: like even non fans are going to go see these

643
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 5: like weirdo concerts in person, and so in my head empathically,

644
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 5: I'm thinking, oh my god, you know, like literally I

645
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 5: work for Jimmy Kimmelive. Jimmy was at the show one night,

646
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,479
Speaker 5: and I have I'm thinking Jimmy is literally sitting there

647
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,920
Speaker 5: as she thinks killers who are partying, Like I'm just like,

648
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,720
Speaker 5: you know, it's like skin crawling, you know.

649
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, how was the MDNA tour, though.

650
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 5: Some parts of it were amazing, as you said, like

651
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 5: who else is doing like a shootout in a small

652
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 5: cabin where she's like choreographing this big again kind.

653
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 3: Of spy oriented number.

654
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 5: Had great moments, but of course it was m DNA,

655
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 5: so I didn't love every single line.

656
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there are there are some tours, like obviously

657
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 2: I said I would love to go back in time

658
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 2: and see the Confession's tour. I also one night during

659
00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 2: like peak COVID in La, I did some ketamine and

660
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,480
Speaker 2: watched the Reinvention Tour, which I think is a really.

661
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 3: Great and I love just the audio CD of it.

662
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 3: It sounds great.

663
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, I you know.

664
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 2: First, I mean, I know, I like was a little

665
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: county about her voice earlier, but I do think she

666
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: does sound she does sound great live and obviously like

667
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 2: she's not she's not she's singing live to tape.

668
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: Yes, you know. I've only seen her once and it

669
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: was at the Boom Boom Room during the Boom Boom

670
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: Room's return for Pride. I think last last year, or

671
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: there was that the year the summer twenty twenty one

672
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,560
Speaker 1: when she wore the not My President. A couple of year,

673
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: a couple of years. To me, it was it was.

674
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 3: Just packed in that room.

675
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 5: Yes, I remember looking at the footage and just being like, oh,

676
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,040
Speaker 5: looks sweltering in that I've.

677
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: Told part of the story on this podcast before, but yes,

678
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: packed to the brim with thirty eight year old fagots

679
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: and I you know, and and tons of like you

680
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: know New York celebrities like Andy, Andy Cohen and Anderson Cooper,

681
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,439
Speaker 1: like like you know, packed into this like little room,

682
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: like Adam Lambert with huge shoulder pads like spikes sticking

683
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: out like like poking people like every sort of like

684
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: you know New York socialite person there. And then like Madonna,

685
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't like a real performance because it's the Boomer Room.

686
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: So she did like you know, five six songs. But

687
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,440
Speaker 1: the best part of the kind of performance so to speak,

688
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: and I don't know if this is the case for y'all,

689
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: was like when she was talking like literally just performing,

690
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: walking around, moving around, there was a moment where like

691
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,279
Speaker 1: at the end again she went on late, of course,

692
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: and so like all these like coked out fagots were

693
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 1: like it was two o'clock in the morning, We're waiting

694
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: for Donna. Madonna's concert is over, and instead of all

695
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: of us going home, she was like, my friend Zachary

696
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: Quinta is gonna come on here and we're gonna have

697
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: an auction for queer homeless youth. And we're like, no, Like,

698
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: that's the that's the one thing that a bunch of

699
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 1: coked down faget's at two o'clock in the morning at

700
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: the top of the boomom room do not want to do.

701
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 1: And the room was not really that receptive to it.

702
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 1: And Madonna was pissed, and it was amazing. It was

703
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: so incredible.

704
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 5: Nobody is more impatient with her own fans and audiences

705
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:19,640
Speaker 5: than the Yaha.

706
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 3: There was like scolding people.

707
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: There was a moment where some faggot was like where

708
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: some faggot tried to touch her? And she goes, did

709
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: somebody just tried to touch my leg? She's like, that's

710
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars if you want to touch my leg.

711
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: And then and then some other faggot was like, I'll

712
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: pay ten thousand dollars for a selfie, and she was like,

713
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: ten thousand dollars for a selfie, fine, get up here,

714
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: and she.

715
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,880
Speaker 3: Was David Russell, my good friend, Oh my manager.

716
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so funny. It was like such

717
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: a wild experience and the old The thing that I

718
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: remember the most from the evening was her her like

719
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: kind of presence, her virtuosic, untouchable presence as a celebrity

720
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 1: that feels like like it's been there since the beginning.

721
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, that really is similar to the oldest days of Madonna,

722
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,399
Speaker 5: just the like like scoffing, Like has anybody scoffed like Madonna?

723
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a scoff It's a reductive it's like, yeah,

724
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like honestly, like just to we're

725
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 1: like we're talking I did, Like we're talking about Madonna's

726
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: flop era. And like the reason that Madonna's slap eras

727
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: so disappointing is because she had all these like moments

728
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: of subversion in her life, whether it was like her

729
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:28,839
Speaker 1: standing up for the AIDS crisis, whether it's like her

730
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: concerts being like protested by like Canada being protested by

731
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: like you know, Christian organizations, like like books being banned everywhere,

732
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: and like I don't know, I just I I can't.

733
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: I'm always gonna think of that Madonna, Like even in

734
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: that even when I see Madonna now and like we

735
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: make fun of her because he're like she's got grills

736
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: on now, or like her face is like filled the

737
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: room with liquid.

738
00:36:54,440 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 3: Or it really is crazy, how been I really that

739
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: would have been like a one album thing, and.

740
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: Just listening to her talk around them is horrible. But

741
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 2: I do think the thing is and I think maybe

742
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 2: fran this is like kind of where you're going is

743
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 2: like I don't think that Madonna can destroy her own legacy,

744
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 2: and I am so grateful for it, yeah, because she

745
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,479
Speaker 2: really has. It's like a couple of years ago when

746
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: when Katie Perry like did some interview about how like

747
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 2: all of her music flops now, and she's like, well,

748
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 2: I've had all the hits, honey, I've rung all the bells.

749
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 2: And it's like Madonna like she built the bell and

750
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 2: rung it and cracked it and then like hung it

751
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 2: back up again, like she's she's literally done everything and

752
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 2: and despite her very valiant attempts, she cannot destroy her

753
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 2: own legacy.

754
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 5: And also again watch it, like a few years from now,

755
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 5: we will look back on certain parts of this of

756
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,959
Speaker 5: this era and realize, like why were we talking about

757
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 5: her lips so fucking much.

758
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, she still is like kind I'm making a point,

759
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,240
Speaker 3: you know, like it's.

760
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I like that.

761
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 2: She she tweeted the other day like do you how

762
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,880
Speaker 2: does my face look now that the swelling.

763
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: Is gone down? And I was like, that's okay, that's funny,

764
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 1: Like finally, Yeah.

765
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,840
Speaker 5: Sometimes sometimes like I'm worried about, like, oh, has she

766
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 5: lost the funny component, you know, which is so I

767
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 5: think critical to who she you know, in the early days.

768
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 5: There's this video of her on a panel for MTV

769
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 5: and they're talking about the advent of music videos, and she,

770
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 5: of course is advocating on behalf of music videos, how

771
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 5: it's great for artists, you know, people who would normally

772
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 5: never get to see you when concert get to see

773
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,880
Speaker 5: you on MTV, and one member of Hall and Oates,

774
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,920
Speaker 5: I believe John Oates says, I don't think rockstar should

775
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 5: have to perform, you know, they don't have to be actors.

776
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 5: And she goes, she goes, and she looks at him

777
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,600
Speaker 5: and she goes, you're performing right now, and like like

778
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 5: and just like he is baffled. He's never like been

779
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:51,800
Speaker 5: like talked back to, namely by somebody of her maybe

780
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 5: age and you know type and it's like I missed that,

781
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 5: you know that in like no, no, no, I'm funny.

782
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: Too, Madonna. Donna possesses the ability to say literally anything

783
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: to literally anyone, like she. I'm thinking about the story

784
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: where she met the which she met the writers of

785
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: Like a Virgin. I can't is that right?

786
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 3: Oh?

787
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: Because we were we were listening to oh yeah, the

788
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,880
Speaker 2: the Immaculate podcast, Oh yeah, where they they talk about

789
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:26,680
Speaker 2: every episode they go in depth on a different Madonna song.

790
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,799
Speaker 2: And I think it was like a Virgin she met

791
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,239
Speaker 2: She she was at some party and the people who

792
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 2: had written Like a Virgin.

793
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:35,879
Speaker 1: Her biggest song at the time, like literally a life changing.

794
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,480
Speaker 2: Song, and they went up to her and and like

795
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 2: we're like, hey, like we wrote Like a Virgin.

796
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,080
Speaker 1: She was like okay, great, like she said, she said

797
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: to them, well now you've met me and walked.

798
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,319
Speaker 3: Away too good.

799
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,359
Speaker 5: It's it's Billy Steinberg, who's written a whole bit of songs.

800
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you? What were we gonna say? So?

801
00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: Phoebe reminded us of Madonna. Madonna's Dyke era when she

802
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 2: you know, her bestie Sandra Bert right their appearance on

803
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: Appearance or appearances on Letterman.

804
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 5: People forget about the dynamics she and David Letterman, how

805
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 5: that used to be kind of a crucial part of

806
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 5: her every few years, thing she see, whether she was

807
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,399
Speaker 5: swearing in front of him or appeasing him with her

808
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 5: new like acoustic era, or you know, like getting his

809
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:23,960
Speaker 5: goat with Sandra sitting there and they're both in the

810
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 5: craziest gene shorts you've ever seen.

811
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,960
Speaker 1: I think people don't also, I think the virgins rather

812
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 1: don't also know that like this kind of like I'll

813
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: say anything to anyone. This kind of gumption, the fortitude

814
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: she has when she like is on these late night

815
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: interviews is something that comes through in her own ambition,

816
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: Like she does her own work, Like the fact that

817
00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 1: she you know, had to send this like handwritten letter

818
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: to like or this like this note to like Abba

819
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 1: because they like famously never sample their songs or whatever,

820
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: Like when she like begged the president of Argentina to

821
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: like approve of her making a vita. You know what

822
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 1: I mean. There's so many different eras where she's just

823
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 1: like I people don't believe in me, but I believe

824
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: in me, And like you're telling me that I'm not

825
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: gonna be able to do this, but I'm gonna do it.

826
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: And it was the same like, you know, with when

827
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: she chooses to put on a concert despite the fact

828
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: that it's like if you put on this concert, we

829
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: will arrest you, and she's like watch me, like I'm

830
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: gonna do it. Yeah.

831
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,919
Speaker 5: And that's also like it's so different than the way

832
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 5: people are like famous now, I think I don't believe

833
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 5: in things like cancel culture, et cetera. Like that's not

834
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,400
Speaker 5: me at all, but it is interesting. It feels like

835
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 5: people now just because fame is so tight in with

836
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,879
Speaker 5: talking directly to your fans all the time, that there's

837
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 5: like a general appeasing quality to like even the way

838
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 5: people are funny, like you have to be kind of

839
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 5: self deprecating, there's like a humility built into everything you do.

840
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 5: And Madonna's whole thing was like, my fans are over there,

841
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 5: I'm not even looking at them. Yeah, you know, like

842
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 5: they're gonna like me no matter what, and so I

843
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 5: get to go harder. You know, really know anybody who's

844
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 5: like that now, you know what I mean?

845
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, zero humility except when she says god.

846
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, there is there is an element of fame now

847
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: where it's like you have to be surprised that that

848
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: your that your work is being you know, lauded or praised,

849
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 2: or that people love it. And Madonna, you know, Madonna

850
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 2: has always believed in herself more more than anyone else.

851
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just imagine. I like, I'm a super fan,

852
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,160
Speaker 3: and I know I do not need to go up

853
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 3: and meet Madonna.

854
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 5: I don't need her to like roll her eyes in

855
00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,719
Speaker 5: my face or be like you know, et cetera. So

856
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 5: same that's part of appreciating her.

857
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:32,839
Speaker 1: Same thing for me with Share, Like, I don't want

858
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,160
Speaker 1: Share to like ruin share for me. Okay, Like I

859
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 1: don't need to meet her. I don't want to have

860
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 1: a conversation with her. I'm gonna be good.

861
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,239
Speaker 3: That said. I feel like that would go pretty well

862
00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:41,480
Speaker 3: for you.

863
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 4: Share.

864
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: He impresses me, Yeah, okay, I mean she is another

865
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 1: person who's just like you can just listen to her

866
00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: talk and talk and talk and talk, and like you'll

867
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 1: always say, She'll always say something funny.

868
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 5: She's got a really good memory too, which they don't always.

869
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 5: I'm also a stan of a Jane Fonda. Yeah, the

870
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 5: degree to which Jane Fonda can remember everything in her life,

871
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,160
Speaker 5: Like you don't always get that from a superstar, you know,

872
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 5: even Madonna.

873
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 3: Now, I feel like it's sort of if.

874
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 5: You were to ask her about, like what was performing

875
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 5: in Speed the Plow like on Broadway, would you remember

876
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 5: any of that?

877
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I don't think she would.

878
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,799
Speaker 2: But I think she would make up a memory of that, sure,

879
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 2: Like I don't think I don't think Madonna is ever

880
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 2: caught out. Like if Madonna doesn't know the answer, she's

881
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: gonna make it up and she's gonna.

882
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 1: Make you believe that She's Yeah.

883
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,399
Speaker 5: I like, did you hear that? A couple of years ago?

884
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:28,560
Speaker 5: It must be like six or seven years ago.

885
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: Now.

886
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 3: She did an interview with Howard Stern.

887
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 5: I remember he asked her he like popped all around

888
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 5: the eras.

889
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:35,040
Speaker 3: I was very surprised.

890
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 5: But he asked her about in Truth or dare the

891
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 5: woman who gets raped in the movie Oh Man. She

892
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 5: ended up talking about Warren Batty, and she's like, I

893
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 5: was just so he used to be with like Julie Christie.

894
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 5: It's like, wow, you have a memory of being obsessed

895
00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,799
Speaker 5: with like the celebrity Laura around Warren Beatty, Like I

896
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 5: had never heard that, So it's I actually don't know

897
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,600
Speaker 5: what memory she still has lurking in her. You know,

898
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:00,160
Speaker 5: it's like we're about to get this giant barbar streisand memoir.

899
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,960
Speaker 2: Oh my god, in her, you know, so excited, the

900
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 2: one that Leah Michelle is learning to read so she

901
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 2: can read.

902
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: Who would ghost write Madonna's memoir? Like that is just

903
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:12,840
Speaker 1: like no one, no one? Because as herself.

904
00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, because as we have learned, she's not willing

905
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,800
Speaker 2: to let someone with everything that happened with her biopic,

906
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 2: which thank god, it's not happening. She's not willing to

907
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 2: let someone else tell her own story. I think that

908
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 2: is a quality that has served her for most of

909
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 2: her career. I think a couple times it's gotten her

910
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 2: in trouble. But she's not willing to hand over control

911
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 2: of her own image. Like we talk a lot about,

912
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 2: you know, pop stars who are like exploited and celebrities

913
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,360
Speaker 2: who are exploited, And I think the thing about Madonna

914
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: is she was always the one exploiting herself. Yeah right,

915
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,640
Speaker 2: I think that's why she is this like sex symbol.

916
00:44:50,040 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is sounding like a brag, but I'm staying

917
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 5: to bring up a point. My best girlfriend is Diablo Cody,

918
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 5: who broke like a draft of her biopic and when

919
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,359
Speaker 5: she was being kind of picked to.

920
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,360
Speaker 3: Like start on the project or whatever.

921
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 5: I don't know who it is, like Warner Brothers or

922
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 5: Amy pas Galer, whoever was in the orbit around that movie.

923
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 5: They had some briefing period with Diablo. Brooke is her

924
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 5: real name, And we're both huge Madonna fans, like always

925
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 5: talking about her, obsessed with her, know everything about her.

926
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 5: Like Brooke I believe has a book of dreams people

927
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 5: have had about Madonna. It's just like, you know, if

928
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 5: you grow up, if you're like Brenn anywhere between nineteen

929
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 5: seventy five and nineteen ninety, you probably have like a

930
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 5: lasting impression of Madonna.

931
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: And we're both obsessed with her.

932
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 5: Anyway, when she was being oriented for this project, it

933
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 5: was crazy how the people like briefing brook on how

934
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,279
Speaker 5: to deal with Madonna or how to talk to her

935
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 5: or what to say, you know, just once you get

936
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 5: in the room. They treated it like nobody knew how

937
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 5: big a star she was. They were like, yeah, did

938
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 5: you know that once upon a time she was married

939
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 5: to Sean Penn and Brooks response to her Brooks response was,

940
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 5: excuse me, I was flying the helicopter.

941
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:19,320
Speaker 3: Over that wedding.

942
00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: That's so funny I was.

943
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,040
Speaker 5: I just remember being so shocked, like, yeah, we're all

944
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 5: up to date on Madonna, like namely like Brooke, who's

945
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 5: like soapop cultural anyway, like of course she.

946
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 3: Knows about Madonna.

947
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,040
Speaker 2: I do think that makes sense though, you know, because

948
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 2: I did. I interviewed Madonna once and like that does

949
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 2: ring true with me that the people around her want

950
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 2: you to always be cognizant of who you're talking to. Yeah,

951
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 2: and that's that's not always true with celebrities. I think

952
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 2: there are some celebrities like want this false sense of

953
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 2: like we're just hanging out, like I'm just a normal person.

954
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: They want you to feel super comfortable. No, if you're

955
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,400
Speaker 2: talking to or meeting Madonna, it's around her. Wants you

956
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: to know that you are having an audience with Madonna.

957
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:10,720
Speaker 2: Did you know her? Madonna? Like when when I interviewed Madonna,

958
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,160
Speaker 2: it happened because her publicists just texted me one day like.

959
00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 3: That way, I was just gonna ask all this.

960
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 2: I don't know how she got my I don't know

961
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 2: how she got my member. She just texted me and said,

962
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: I heard you want to speak to Donna.

963
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 3: And you assumed it was God from God. Yeah, text

964
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:30,080
Speaker 3: a way.

965
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 2: Do you have a favorite Madonna film role, because we

966
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,640
Speaker 2: haven't really touched much on Madonna's movie star, which, as

967
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 2: you said, she has not done as successfully as some

968
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:41,080
Speaker 2: other pop stars.

969
00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 5: Right, I think I would have to say ultimately A

970
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,959
Speaker 5: League of their Own. And I think it's worth noting

971
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,239
Speaker 5: that Madonna's two best film roles, which are that and

972
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:53,400
Speaker 5: Desperately Seeking Susan, we're both directed by women, and in fact,

973
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 5: like her kind of most fun moments in the movies

974
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,239
Speaker 5: are interplay with women. I love her friend ship with

975
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 5: Rosie O'Donnell, which was like a towering thing about her

976
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,720
Speaker 5: in the early nineties. She's so funny in that movie

977
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 5: and gets to be herself and also somebody totally different.

978
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 5: There's a big dance sequence in that movie that's so fun.

979
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 5: She looks amazing, of course with really dark hair, so

980
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 5: just plenty of things working in her favor at the

981
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 5: lead time.

982
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,280
Speaker 1: A League of their Own is unfortunately like three hours.

983
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: It feels like it's three hours long, like it's it's

984
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,160
Speaker 1: as I've I've never made it through the whole.

985
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 3: Oh really, Oh my god, I love it.

986
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: I think my favorite Madonna film is the next best thing?

987
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 3: Whoa crazy answer? You can make it through that.

988
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: What's the next best thing?

989
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 3: I have special skills.

990
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 2: It's it's it's a movie where she and Rupert Everett

991
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: are best friends and they decide to have a baby together.

992
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: Correct.

993
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 5: Yes, and she it's one of those movies in the

994
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 5: early nineties or late nineties where she has a crazy

995
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 5: rom com job that would never afford her the house

996
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 5: she has. She's like a yoga instructor and lives in

997
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 5: like a house with gables.

998
00:48:54,719 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's that's not actually my favorite Madonna holme bro.

999
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:02,120
Speaker 2: I do think it's probably it's really seeking season. It's

1000
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:04,239
Speaker 2: not Avita me neither.

1001
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,640
Speaker 5: Avita is the weirdest case of you know, at the time,

1002
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 5: it was like talked about like an Oscar snub, But honestly,

1003
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 5: I would compare it to the Elvis movie we have

1004
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 5: right now, where there's no scenes in it. It's filmed

1005
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 5: basically as a montage, so you don't even really get acting.

1006
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 3: It's all a music video.

1007
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's and she's really good at making music. Yeah. Well,

1008
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,320
Speaker 1: oh do you have a favorite Madonna music video.

1009
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 3: It will always be Vogue. It will never not be Vogue.

1010
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 5: Also, it's just like something about that song fran you

1011
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:36,440
Speaker 5: were just talking about, like you know how smart it

1012
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 5: was to illuminate the subculture, and you know how she

1013
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:41,560
Speaker 5: gave voice to something that is so awesome that we

1014
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 5: all care about so much.

1015
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 3: Now. I don't want to say it's only because of

1016
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 3: the song Vogue.

1017
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,799
Speaker 5: But you know somewhat, yeah, But also just like the

1018
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 5: homage to old Hollywood, like that's so an important part

1019
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 5: of like my faggotry, just like her being like, no,

1020
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 5: you have to understand Greta Garbo and Betty Davis if

1021
00:49:57,160 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 5: you're gonna understand me, Like.

1022
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 3: I've always always loved that.

1023
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 5: And the song itself is just when it comes on

1024
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,920
Speaker 5: at some gay club, like the tone changes like faggot's

1025
00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 5: become you know, angles and poses and it's just its

1026
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,759
Speaker 5: own vibe forever, like nobody will ever be able to

1027
00:50:11,760 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 5: do that.

1028
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: I do think it's like the best music video ever

1029
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: mane yes.

1030
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 5: Oh, and also what's his name? David Fincher made it

1031
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 5: when he was like twenty eight. What it's so disgusting.

1032
00:50:24,719 --> 00:50:26,960
Speaker 1: Wait, I also didn't know that David Fincher made that.

1033
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, express yourself.

1034
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 2: Guy exists in the Vogue, exists in the Girl with

1035
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 2: the Dragon time cinematic correct.

1036
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 3: Yes, Rudy Mara was born of this video.

1037
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,360
Speaker 1: That's that That makes a lot of sense to me.

1038
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,440
Speaker 1: That's crazy. Yeah, I that's wild to me. I I

1039
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,239
Speaker 1: think you know when you said like people knew about

1040
00:50:46,239 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: the subculture because of the Vogue, that that really is true.

1041
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: Like like Ballroom has not had that many like placements

1042
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 1: in the mainstream, and it was like there was like

1043
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: America's next best dance crew, there was Paris Is Burning,

1044
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: and then there was the Vogue music video, you know

1045
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: what I mean. The only thing that would like kind

1046
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 1: of put Ballroom on a platform after that was like

1047
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: pose right like it it really crude people everyone. The

1048
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: way people talk about Madonna now, which is like fair,

1049
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:16,480
Speaker 1: and the way people talk about Vogue now is like

1050
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: she was like exploiting like marginalized groups and like stealing

1051
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: from this culture and blah blah blah, and it really

1052
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 1: is just more nuanced than that, Like there there's so

1053
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 1: much more that happened between her and those kids that

1054
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: when you when you watch the Truth or Der video

1055
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,759
Speaker 1: with sorry when you watch the Truth or Der documentary.

1056
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I know there's a lot of controversy about

1057
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:39,880
Speaker 1: them feeling really abandoned after that, but it's like, there's

1058
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: no question that she was invested in the lives and

1059
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: stories and culture of like what she was inspired by

1060
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: at the time, and she wasn't afraid to put credit

1061
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: where credit was due and to take them all with

1062
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: her at the time. And that's just not something that

1063
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: celebrities do at all now. And I think that what

1064
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 1: you know, Beyonce is doing with Renaissance is like unheard of,

1065
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: Like she's putting all the credit where the credit is due,

1066
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: and like people just haven't done that since Madonna. I

1067
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: feel no, right.

1068
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 5: Also, it's like, I mean, I agree with criticism that, like,

1069
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 5: all right, it's a little weird that this like white

1070
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 5: woman at the top of the world is like, you know,

1071
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 5: kind of candy craning her arm down and picking this

1072
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,239
Speaker 5: thing and turning it into her thing. Yeah, But at

1073
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,160
Speaker 5: the same time, it's like I've never seen her perform

1074
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 5: Vogue without like black and Latin men around her, who

1075
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 5: are certainly fagots, certainly like making the art form look

1076
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 5: like some wild, kind of addictively coordinated thing that you've

1077
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 5: never seen before.

1078
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 1: You know.

1079
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,239
Speaker 5: It's like, I mean, all I can say is when

1080
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 5: you're growing up in like the suburbs of Chicago and

1081
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 5: like a Polish Catholic suburb and you see something like that,

1082
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 5: like for me, my brain changed. I'm like, how do

1083
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 5: I get to be that? Like I know that's for

1084
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 5: me and I don't even know what the word gay

1085
00:52:48,719 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 5: means yet. Yeah, she I would Actually I would say

1086
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,440
Speaker 5: this about Margaret Chow, who is a comedian I was

1087
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 5: really obsessed with pre coming up. Obviously still fabulous, but

1088
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 5: like Madonna was one of the first people who made

1089
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,800
Speaker 5: me realize, like, oh, gay people, you just want to

1090
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,879
Speaker 5: know them because like they're the most fun or like

1091
00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 5: they know the most people, or they have like the

1092
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,800
Speaker 5: parties you want to be at, or they're hilarious or whatever.

1093
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 5: Like she always had that sense of like, imagine not

1094
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 5: knowing gay people.

1095
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, but not faggots who hate women. I'd kill fagots

1096
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:24,320
Speaker 1: who hate women. Oh so good, so fucking funny. Yeah,

1097
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 1: I uh, I think that that is just like it.

1098
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: I think I said this earlier, but like pop stars

1099
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: now do what Madonna does like she created this template

1100
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,399
Speaker 1: for pop star that like didn't exist, Like I think

1101
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: that the only other person that I think had a

1102
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:42,280
Speaker 1: more big historic presence in like cultivating the pop stars,

1103
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: like maybe like Diana Ross, but she like did it

1104
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:47,520
Speaker 1: in a very different way that like Beyonce might have

1105
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 1: like taken the template from right like it's but she

1106
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,399
Speaker 1: people just don't what she does, similar to like maybe

1107
00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson is now like omnipotent in pop music, Like

1108
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: pop music now sounds like Madonna kind of right.

1109
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:06,919
Speaker 2: All these bitches as yeah, okay, so so well, first

1110
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:08,600
Speaker 2: I want to know, do you do you have your

1111
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:13,280
Speaker 2: tickets secured for Madonna's Greatest Hits towards celebration.

1112
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:16,279
Speaker 5: My friend Jon Hatchwell, who is an obsessive Madonna fan

1113
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,879
Speaker 5: also great pop music fan in general. If you don't

1114
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:21,560
Speaker 5: follow him on Twitter, y A N N. Hatchwell, great guy.

1115
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 5: He got me the tickets. We are on the floor

1116
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 5: in Los Angeles floor.

1117
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 3: Yes, I'm okay.

1118
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 2: So, so what songs do you need her to do?

1119
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 5: I mean, there are so many that I love that

1120
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:36,760
Speaker 5: I know she will do. We'll get some form of Vogue,

1121
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 5: et cetera. But I would love to hear I'll Remember,

1122
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 5: which I think is the underrated Madonna ballad of all time,

1123
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 5: even though if it was, it was a huge hit

1124
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 5: at the time. Yeah, it's on the soundtrack for With Honors.

1125
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 5: I just missed like Indigo tinged ballad Madonna you Know

1126
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 5: You'll See and the Power.

1127
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 3: Of Goodbye and things like that, So I hope you

1128
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 3: get I'll Remember. I've always love that song.

1129
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,720
Speaker 1: Any other deep cuts Madonna? Deep cuts are Madonna gems

1130
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: that people don't appreciate. Mmm.

1131
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 5: I I love words from Erotica. I just love the

1132
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 5: like grunginess that album gets into. Even though it's like

1133
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 5: a pretty emotional album, people think of it as just naughty,

1134
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 5: and it really is more like this kind of burlesque

1135
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 5: where you think you're getting sex and instead you get intimacy.

1136
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: Hmmmm, what about you?

1137
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:26,920
Speaker 2: I would really like if I make it to the tour,

1138
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: I would really love her to do Human Nature Sure,

1139
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 2: one of one of my favorites and such a good video,

1140
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:36,439
Speaker 2: although you know the corn Rows right, the corn Roads

1141
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 2: are our corner. Yeah, and I would love her to

1142
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,320
Speaker 2: do Candy Perfume Girl.

1143
00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 3: Oh Yes, which is a baffling song, but I love it.

1144
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, baffling.

1145
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:54,560
Speaker 2: No, absolutely, but I I would really love her to perform.

1146
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: I want her to do her cover of Fever.

1147
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 3: I love that. I'm on snl oh right, I wait.

1148
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: I actually haven't. I'm realizing I haven't seen that performance

1149
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:05,760
Speaker 1: that I want to see.

1150
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 3: It's not among her best live performances.

1151
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 5: And she also did a Bad Girl on that episode,

1152
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 5: and that's when she It was right after Snead O'Connor

1153
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 5: had ripped up the Pope and she did a parody

1154
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 5: of that where she ripped up a picture of Joey

1155
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:24,720
Speaker 5: botafuco very nineteen ninety two tabloid stuff. Yeah, okay, okay,

1156
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 5: good to know.

1157
00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,959
Speaker 1: Wow, Well, maybe y'all see y'all at the Eras Tour.

1158
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:33,280
Speaker 1: Who knows not the Eras. That's what it's called, girl,

1159
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 1: That's what we're calling at.

1160
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 2: You can get more content at our Patreon, Patreon, dot com,

1161
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:47,680
Speaker 2: slash like a Virgin, buy our merch at like a

1162
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 2: Virgin four twenty sixty nine dot com.

1163
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,080
Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram at like a Virgin four twenty

1164
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: sixty nine. You can also follow me anywhere you want

1165
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: online at Rosdomu, and you can find me at France

1166
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:03,760
Speaker 1: wishko Were you like like a Virgin? Is iHeartRadio production.

1167
00:57:03,960 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with support from Minkey Hoffman

1168
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:10,360
Speaker 1: and Nikki Tour until next week me