1 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to the first ever bonus drop of Backwoods University. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: As many of you know, Backwoods University is traditionally a 3 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: bi weekly show. However, last week we put out an 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: episode titled Hogy Boats, and in that show, we dove 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: into the growing concern and controversy surrounding the commercial min 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: haden fishing industry. And one of the things that I 7 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: specifically notated in that show was that I wanted to 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: be able to present both sides, but unfortunately I cannot 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: find anyone from the commercial fishing side to speak with me. However, 10 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: that has since changed. I have someone from the industry 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,160 Speaker 1: to talk to. And also, this is a very time 12 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 1: sensitive issue. There are a few potential law and regulation 13 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: changes in boats taking place this very Friday in Louisiana. 14 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: So, as I. 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: Promised, my aim is not to tell you how to think, 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: but to simply present the facts in both sides of 17 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: the story. So here's my conversation with the commercial fishing representatives. So, so, 18 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: Ben Landry, you are the vice president of Public Affairs 19 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,559 Speaker 1: and you oversee regulatory communications for ocean harvesters. 20 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: Is that that correct? 21 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's correct. So we have. 22 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 4: Two facilities in the Gulf. We've won in Moss Pointe, Mississippi. 23 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,320 Speaker 4: We have won in Abbeyville, Louisiana. We also harvest been 24 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 4: Hayden on the East coast in Reidville, Virginia. 25 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: Okay, so what I'm gonna do? I have I have 26 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: some questions that I want to ask you. But but 27 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,400 Speaker 1: at the point that this episode will come out, the 28 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 1: original Pokey Boat episode will have been out for about 29 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: a week, maybe a little bit more. And so one 30 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: thing I wanted to be sure to do was just 31 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: kind of give you an open floor if you you've 32 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: had a chance to you know, see some of the 33 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: stuff that came out, see some you know, hear the episode, 34 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: hear what was talked about. So before I have you, 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: before I have any of the questions that I have 36 00:01:56,800 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: for you, I want to just give you an opportunity 37 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 1: or to respond to any of the off that was 38 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: covered in the episode as is. 39 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 4: Okay, So you know, thank you, And you know, having 40 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 4: watched the video, the podcast, and you know, live this 41 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 4: life for twenty years, you know there's a lot of 42 00:02:17,040 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 4: misconceptions about the fishery, and you know, the guys that 43 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 4: you had in the video are incredibly passionate. I would 44 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,640 Speaker 4: never suggest that they don't know what they're talking about. 45 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 4: I mean, they seem to be experts in their field. 46 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 4: But I do think there's other perspectives, you know, the 47 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 4: concept of well. First off, the one thing that just 48 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 4: always gets me is this foreign ownership being a factor 49 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 4: in any of this, and it's simply not the case. 50 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 4: Both fishing companies, both ocean harvesterers, and our competitor who 51 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 4: we've kind of been working shoulder to shoulder with on 52 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 4: these regulatory issues, West Bank Fisheries, the both American ome 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 4: American owned, American operated. The processing where we deliver Manhaden two. 54 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 4: That company Omega Protein, and their's is Daybrook Fisheries. Those 55 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 4: are owned by a Canadian company in a South African company. 56 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 3: But in terms of the fishing, the vessels that people see, 57 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 3: those are American owned. 58 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 4: And you know, I heard one of your guests just 59 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 4: you know, it always just strikes me as kind of 60 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 4: a scare tactic, this idea that foreign entities are coming 61 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 4: and taking us men Hayden, And one, it's not true. 62 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 4: In two, it hasn't changed in any way the fishing operation. 63 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 4: I worked for the company prior to the acquisition, at 64 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 4: least the Cook acquisition in twenty seventeen. And I can 65 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 4: show you our fisheries prosecuted the exact same. I can't 66 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 4: speak for the other company, but you know we harvest 67 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 4: the same fashion. We we don't. There hasn't been a 68 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 4: change in philosophy of becoming more aggressive or you know, 69 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 4: let's uh, you know, create or be damned with user conflicts. 70 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 3: That's not what's going on here. 71 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 4: I mean, there's Americans working there flying the US flag, 72 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 4: and you know, when we're perceived as outsiders, uh, it's 73 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 4: a bit offensive to us. So that's one thing, I 74 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 4: you know, just off the top. I wanted to mention. 75 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: One thing that that I that I appreciated from the 76 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: guys that I heard from, because there was three different 77 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: individuals on that episode, and all three of them weighed 78 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: in and saying like, hey, our in engineers not to 79 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: you know, because it's not not to shut anyone down 80 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 1: or cost anyone. They're very clear in saying that, and 81 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: I thought that was respectable of them. One of the 82 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: things that they were they were pushing for is that 83 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: the the or the hot the hotter of the topics 84 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: is this buffer zone, right and We saw some of 85 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: that as well in the YouTube shorts, in the social 86 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: media post. You know, maybe there's a lot of talk 87 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 1: in folks wanting to extend. 88 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:11,559 Speaker 2: The buffer zone. 89 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: I know there's talk now about wanting to take the 90 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: buffer zone away. Why is that so crucial to your operation? 91 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: What is that buffer zone? How does it affect you? 92 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 3: Well, this is what this is all about. 93 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 4: To me again, I worked, I started, I came over 94 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 4: to a Mega Protein and now you know, I'm on 95 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 4: the fishing side in two thousand and five, and we 96 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 4: didn't have any of these issues until that twenty twenty 97 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:45,159 Speaker 4: and it was all about where you can fish and 98 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 4: to us, I mean, the simple question is that's where 99 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 4: the manhaden are. 100 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,520 Speaker 3: You know. Unfortunately, that's where the prize. 101 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 4: Sports fisher are as well, close to shore. So you 102 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 4: just have an inherent user conflict. I mean I grew up. 103 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 4: You probably passed through my hometown when you went down 104 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 4: to grand Isle. I grew up in Thibodeau in Lafouche Parish. 105 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 4: So I've been to grand Isle countless times and have 106 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,200 Speaker 4: recreationally harvested fish for as long as I can. Where 107 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 4: my dad goes as often as he can user conflicts 108 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,680 Speaker 4: occur within sectors, right. You know, if you're fishing and 109 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 4: you see two other boats come near you that are 110 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,000 Speaker 4: recreational fishing, you get kind of upset too. We obviously 111 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: have a much bigger footprint there because you can see 112 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 4: us on the horizon a little bit faster, a little 113 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 4: bit easier. But I just think this has always been 114 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 4: about user conflicts of moving us moving those boats away 115 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 4: from the coast, and you know, there hasn't been any 116 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 4: data that illustrates that that's better than something else, and 117 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 4: particularly if that's where the bulk of the menhad a 118 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 4: going to be, then we believe we should have the 119 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 4: right to harvest in those waters. You know, we saw 120 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 4: the buffer zone get moved back a little bit and 121 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 4: then you know, obviously Grandu has the much bigger buffer 122 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 4: because there was some acknowledgment that that's kind of a 123 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 4: recreational fishing hotspot. There was no disagreement from the fishery. 124 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 4: There was a gentleman's agreement to stay three miles off 125 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 4: of the island itself dating back probably two decades. So 126 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 4: getting that into the code a few years ago, you know, 127 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 4: it was something that we didn't fight or anything we 128 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 4: honestly kind of hope that it would happen, you know. 129 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 4: And then another buffer was put in front of Holly 130 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 4: Beach and Cameron Parish in southwest Louisiana to protect those 131 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 4: tourism dollars because we understand that, but you know, we 132 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 4: believe that you know, outside of those areas and other 133 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 4: recreational fishing hotspots, you know, this company should have every 134 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 4: right to harvest those fish as anyone else. And you know, 135 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 4: we would always ask for respect full fishing out there. 136 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 4: And I talked to my captains a lot, and I say, listen, 137 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 4: you can legally go catch that fish, but you know, 138 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 4: if there's a bunch of boats around, maybe consider passing 139 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 4: on that set and go and find them elsewhere. We 140 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 4: don't go out looking for for user conflicts. And yeah, 141 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 4: I think that's something that you know, just from communication, 142 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 4: we could all improve. 143 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 3: On, right. 144 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: And so that's what that leads me to something that 145 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: like I have to ask about probably one of the 146 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,439 Speaker 1: more notable ones. I think it's about like a you know, 147 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: a couple months back, it was recent and it was 148 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: before I mean as well, before I had even started 149 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 1: working on this episode. There was a video some guys 150 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: were tarp and fishing I think a couple of tarpating 151 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: up on the net. Obviously I wasn't there, but like 152 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: the record from from several of the folks that were 153 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: there was that the story went that there was communication 154 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: between them and the commercial boats and there was there 155 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: was unication going, hey, we're fishing tarpin right here, you know, 156 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: please stay out something along those lines, and then they 157 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: came in any way. 158 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 2: And tarpin were killed. That's how that's how it came across. Yeah, 159 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: I heard, I heard the story right right. 160 00:09:16,440 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: How I mean, you look at instances like that, uh, 161 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: and it's like there's got to be a way one like, 162 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: was that was it right for those guys to carry 163 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 1: out their commercial fishing in that way? Is that a 164 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: kind of instance that can be avoided? Because that's that's 165 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: where like those instances as far as like if I'm 166 00:09:38,880 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: if I'm taking off the unbiased hat and I'm trying 167 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: to say, you know, if I'm on the side of 168 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: commercial fishing, I'm like, hey, guys, we want to avoid 169 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 1: that one. That would be my standpoint. But explain to 170 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 1: me from your perspective, like how something like that happens 171 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: do you try to avoid something like that? 172 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 2: Is that a worry? Just just kind of break that 173 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 2: down for me. 174 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 4: Well, no, that's great, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond. 175 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 4: The vessels that there were, as I remember, there were 176 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 4: two Menhaden vessels that came nearby some Tarpaid fishers fishermen. 177 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 4: And I will say this, those two vessels were operated 178 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 4: by whom I believe are the best Man Hayden captains 179 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 4: in the Gulf. I mean, these aren't green fishermen. These 180 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 4: are really impressive fishermen. So I called him and said, 181 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 4: what give me the scoop? 182 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:33,959 Speaker 3: What happened? 183 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 4: Because we track where every boat is every second of 184 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 4: every day. We have it on GPS. You know, our 185 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 4: vice president of fishing operations looks. 186 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 3: At it like you know, a risk board. He just 187 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 3: he looks at his computer all day. So I called 188 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 3: him and he. 189 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 4: Said that they had seen they had been put on 190 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 4: those Man Hayden by a Spoder aircraft. They were unaware 191 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 4: of the Tarpin fishermen nearby, but they saw the boats. 192 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 4: They said, there were about three quarters of a mile 193 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 4: away from the Tarpin fishermen and they made their sets. 194 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 4: They made two sets, and I guess that's when the 195 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 4: chatter on the radio occurred. I don't know, you know, 196 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 4: I'm not gonna I don't know what happened on the radio. 197 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,079 Speaker 4: But they made their two sets, and then they saw 198 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 4: they had a number of sharks and I think maybe 199 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 4: one or two tarpin is what the captains told me 200 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 4: they observed. And then they saw the recreational boats come 201 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 4: to them. You know, so they're three quarters of a mile 202 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:36,800 Speaker 4: away and the REG boats are coming to them with 203 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 4: their cameras out and filming, and I guess that's where 204 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 4: they got their footage. They each boat made two sets 205 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 4: and then they took off, so it's probably there maybe 206 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 4: there an hour. They said they could see that the 207 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 4: reg boats had stayed in that area for a while. 208 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 4: I guess trying to I don't know what they were doing, 209 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 4: but he said that he thought they were trying to 210 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 4: see if any tarpin floated. And he said that he 211 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 4: saw the shark and the tarpain when he basically rolled 212 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 4: out his net like after the set was over, and 213 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,000 Speaker 4: he you know, unlatched it and brought it back in. 214 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 4: He said that he saw the tarpain and and the 215 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 4: sharks swim away. So he did not report any any 216 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 4: dead tarpaun or shark. But you know, I think that's 217 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 4: just you know, what gets caught in there. But I 218 00:12:25,400 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 4: do think, you know, I would suggest to to both sides, 219 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 4: you know, we can throttle down this this rhetoric and 220 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 4: this this animosity, and my guys can probably do a 221 00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 4: little better in some instances. And you know, I know 222 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 4: the recreational guys. You know, I've heard reports and I've 223 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 4: seen video of them come and look for trouble near us. 224 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 4: And you know, I think sometimes this this rhetoric just 225 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 4: gets too high. 226 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, man, man and it and I realized that not 227 00:12:57,559 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 1: from and not speaking of I will say if it 228 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: did come across in the episode, like all three of 229 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 1: the guys that I talked to remained a respectable tone 230 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: the entire time when talking about the industry. They acknowledge 231 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,839 Speaker 1: there's conflict there. Where I did see some some vitriol 232 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 1: was on social media, you know, I saw some definitely. 233 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 2: Like who this is a hot topic, you know. 234 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: But the thing is, man, it's like and and again 235 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 1: I tried my best to address that in the original episode, 236 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 1: like this is a complex issue. I understand that you know, 237 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: there's there's guys on the recreational side, there's also charter guides. 238 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: They're thinking about the resource or thinking about their jobs. 239 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 1: What you're doing on the commercial side. Uh, there's jobs involved, 240 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: there's livelihoods there. 241 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 2: I understand that. 242 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: Where I'm trying to find is, like I guess the 243 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: thing that I was talking about with the other guys, like, 244 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: is there a way in your opinion, is there a 245 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: way where you can where you can find a way 246 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: to operate that minimizes conflict? So you know whether the 247 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 1: whether that Tarpin died or not, you know, whether is 248 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: there a way that we can minimize those sort of 249 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: events where the recreational guys, the charter fishing guides can 250 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: be happy. There's we can look forward to, like, hey, 251 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: what we're doing here for the resource is sustainable. Is 252 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 1: there a way where we can find that ground for 253 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: everybody to work. 254 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 3: I mean, we hope to. We hope to. 255 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 4: So you know, as you noted, the Manhaden fishery has 256 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 4: been you know, harvesting in the Atlantic probably going back 257 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 4: one hundred and forty five years. In the golf it's 258 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 4: probably closer to eighty or ninety years again, we never 259 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 4: had these conflicts until a handful of years ago. 260 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 3: And I don't know. 261 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 4: My sense is that recreational fishermen weren't just biting their 262 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 4: tongue that whole time. You know, I don't know what changed, 263 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 4: and if it was a new narrative or you know, 264 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 4: a special interest group on their side said hey, we 265 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 4: should make this an issue. I don't know, but I 266 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 4: do know that we try to adhere to the best 267 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 4: available science when we conduct our fishing operations, and that 268 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 4: starts with most recent stock assessment. You know, what is 269 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 4: being harvested is that at a sustainable level, or key 270 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:29,480 Speaker 4: predators being receiving enough menhaden and their diet so that 271 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 4: their populations are not are not dipping. And I think 272 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 4: those are the you know, the questions we need to ask. Secondly, 273 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 4: by catch a huge issue, right, I mean that that's 274 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 4: that the user conflict in bycatch is what I hear 275 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 4: the most of. And you know, as you talked about 276 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 4: in your in your episode, you know, a really landmark 277 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 4: bycatch report was released, you know, a few months ago, 278 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 4: and you know it you could get anything you wanted 279 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 4: out of that, right, you know, recreational anglers saw something 280 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 4: and they found, you know, oh, bycatch is problematic. I 281 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 4: think the commercial side said, well, listen, we were told 282 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 4: that red drum bycatch was through the roof, and this 283 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 4: survey indicated that perhaps it's not. You know, so I 284 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 4: think to me, it's do or the regulators being kept 285 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 4: up at night because of too many fish being removed 286 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 4: or bycatch, and you know, I guess we have not 287 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 4: seen that, you know, that reaction from the fisheries managers 288 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 4: and the golf that. You know, I believe them to 289 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 4: be unbiased and independent, and if they don't believe that 290 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 4: there's a there's a concern or a need for extra regulation, 291 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 4: then let's go fish. Then it goes back on the 292 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 4: sectors to make sure that you know, user conflicts or 293 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 4: minimized as best we can. 294 00:16:58,040 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 3: That would be the way that I would answer that. 295 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: So when you saw I think the number I without 296 00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:10,240 Speaker 1: looking at the whole you know, through the numbers that 297 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: entire report, I think it was like twenty two thousand 298 00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: breeds as redfish. So you as an industry, like y'all thought, 299 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously y'all just think that that's not a 300 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:23,240 Speaker 1: very concerning number as far as the population as a 301 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: whole in population effects. That's not a concerning number. 302 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 3: Now, well I think we it was. 303 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 4: It was a number, and it was a goal to 304 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 4: shoot for, to try to reduce. So, you know, one 305 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 4: thing we learned, I mean, this bycatch report is the 306 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 4: big part of it is obviously understanding what's in the bycatch, 307 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,119 Speaker 4: but we looked at it as an industry of what 308 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:54,199 Speaker 4: can be approved, and we learned that rollover bycatch, you know, 309 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 4: bycatch it stays in the net the whole time throughout 310 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:03,719 Speaker 4: the set had a success rate, you know, eighty six percent, 311 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,679 Speaker 4: eighty five, eighty six percent if it stays in the 312 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 4: net throughout the pumping. If it goes into the pump 313 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 4: and onto the vessel, survivability was incredibly low. So what 314 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 4: can we do as an industry to make sure that 315 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 4: those fish don't go in the in the fish hose. 316 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 4: So before the season started, we configured a different hose 317 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 4: cage so that there were more bars to ensure that 318 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,920 Speaker 4: larger fish bump off of those bars and don't get 319 00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 4: sucked up the hose. We then throughout the year we 320 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 4: just kind of kept tinkering with it. You know what 321 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 4: if we ed at a bar here and I don't 322 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 4: think that the final story on that is told. But 323 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 4: our goal is to have a host cage that when 324 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 4: it's in operation that twenty two thousand number reduces so 325 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:11,720 Speaker 4: that they stay in the fishole and then when you 326 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:13,960 Speaker 4: let go of the net and the set is over, 327 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 4: these guys the bycatchup scientists stayed and they said, are 328 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 4: we seeing these fish swim away? And they did at 329 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 4: a at a rate of about eighty six percent survival rate. 330 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 4: So that was kind of the impetus of the industry 331 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 4: trying to improve our operations to lower that twenty two 332 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 4: and again we're just talking about red drum but for 333 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 4: all fish, lowering that number and keeping them in the 334 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 4: water because we did find out that and you know, 335 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 4: hand up, we didn't. We thought that they had a 336 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 4: higher survivability if it went on the vessel and went 337 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,199 Speaker 4: off to the other side, but it doesn't. So you know, 338 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:55,679 Speaker 4: we've got to do our best to keep them in 339 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 4: that water as long as possible. 340 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: So y'all are y'all are like seeking out ways to 341 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,959 Speaker 1: reduce that by catch and reduce mortality. 342 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 4: So again, there was not a standardized hose cage even 343 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 4: within the plants, like I work in the Abbeyville facility. 344 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 4: The vessels had different cages between themselves, and then obviously 345 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 4: we had a different one than the west Bank vessels 346 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 4: out of Empire and Moss Point. So we worked with 347 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 4: them pretty closely over at west Bank and we said, 348 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 4: let's design a cage that is standardized throughout the fishery. 349 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 4: And I think we're still just tinkering with it to 350 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 4: see what works and what doesn't. Now, the season wrapped 351 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 4: up this week, but we were able to run with 352 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 4: some different designs over the course of this season to 353 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 4: try and reduce that gotcha. 354 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: Going back to buffer zone, like, I know there's a 355 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: lot of talk. I think there's something coming up on 356 00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: this next Friday that implications for buffer zones everything I know. 357 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: Like again, going back to the guys that I interviewed 358 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: on the recreational side, A lot of their a lot 359 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 1: of the factor that they were hinging on on finding 360 00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: common common ground was that buffer zone. Right are y'all 361 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: are you in favor of maintaining a half mile buffer zone? 362 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,120 Speaker 1: Do you think there shouldn't be any buffer zone except 363 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: for in a few areas like Grand Isle? 364 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: What are your views on buffer zones? 365 00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 4: So we support a proposal that would keep the half 366 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 4: mile buffer in place, and then with the exception of 367 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 4: a handful of areas that were identified that are less 368 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 4: recreational fishing hotspots. So you know, I've seen online a 369 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 4: great deal and listen where the where the villain being 370 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 4: attacked most of the time. But you know, it was 371 00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:59,360 Speaker 4: never going. We've never suggested on a coast wide basis 372 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 4: moving in from from a half mile to a quarter. 373 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 4: We what we did is identified areas that when we're 374 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 4: out fishing, do you see recreational anglers in this area? 375 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:10,120 Speaker 3: No? 376 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,200 Speaker 4: Do you see camps? You know, if it's if it's marsh. 377 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 4: Could you move that buffer from a half to a 378 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 4: quarter in those areas, but maintain the bigger areas that 379 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 4: recreational anglers love. That would not change at all under 380 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 4: what we suggested. Now what wildlife from fisheries is ultimately 381 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 4: going to do. But listen, it would have been easy 382 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:43,400 Speaker 4: to say all three hundred linear miles of Louisiana coastline 383 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 4: move into a quarter, but we didn't do that. We 384 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 4: took a concerted approach to say, you know, let's pick 385 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 4: our spots here. You know, and I think what the 386 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 4: map that we had kind of worked up was roughly 387 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 4: maybe a order of those miles would go from a 388 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 4: half to a quarter and everything else would stay the 389 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 4: same as is. 390 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: M Yeah, so I guess the question there is and 391 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,439 Speaker 1: the reason it came to mind is that going back 392 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 1: to that by catch study is I think, I mean, 393 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: it is important to notate that that study was taking 394 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: place when those are those buffer places, that are those 395 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 1: buffer zones that are now so one one could reasonably 396 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: be presumed like, hey, if we reduce these buffer zones 397 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 1: in any stretch like that could that couldn't mean that 398 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: bycatch is going to go up. 399 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 4: I don't think it would go up in any order 400 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 4: of magnitude from what we've understood. And you know, as 401 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 4: we understand that bycatch reportant, again, these guys run our 402 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,639 Speaker 4: vessels for a year, right, you would almost have to 403 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 4: go out miles to see any material bycatch reduction, you know, 404 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,159 Speaker 4: So it's you know, I think we're talking at a 405 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 4: half mile of a quarter mile. My understanding of what 406 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 4: the bycatch report said is that you would not see 407 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 4: a dramatic difference in that quarter of a mile. 408 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: And so and you're like, if they wanted to do 409 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: like a three mile wide buffer zone like they were 410 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,399 Speaker 1: talking about in the first episode. That's not feasible, is 411 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: that what you're saying. 412 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 4: No, it really isn't. And and man haden. So what 413 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 4: what man Aiden do is they come out in the 414 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 4: early morning and then during the bulk of the day 415 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 4: they go inside the marsh. Because if you're a man Hayden, 416 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 4: you're always in a school, right, you're always schooled up. 417 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 4: A single Manhayden's going to be gobbled up by a predator. 418 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 4: And then you know, late in the afternoon they come 419 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 4: out again. 420 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 3: And you know, do we. 421 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 4: Catch fish outside of three miles of course, but the 422 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 4: bulk of those fish or I would say, you know 423 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 4: near shore, and you know that's where they are. So 424 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 4: you know, we just feel that we have the same right. 425 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 4: It's a livelihood to us. And listen to those guys, 426 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 4: they seem to acknowledge it. 427 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 3: I'll give you the I'll give them. 428 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 4: Credit in that regard that you know, nobody said but 429 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 4: shut them down. But I think if you were three 430 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:25,480 Speaker 4: miles an out, even one mile and out, I think 431 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 4: you would see a dramatic reduction in fish catch. And again, 432 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 4: this is how these guys get paid. They get paid 433 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 4: on fish catch. And I've just and I hope this 434 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 4: is not, you know, offensive to your audience, but I've 435 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 4: always suggested that a man's livelihood should, you know, at 436 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 4: least be treated equally, if not more preferred, than another 437 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 4: man's hobby. Now, I understand charter fishing is different, and 438 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 4: you know, we're. 439 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 3: Happy to work with those guys. 440 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 4: But if these guys don't catch fish between Monday and Friday, 441 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 4: they don't get paid. And you know that's incredibly important 442 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 4: to me. 443 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yeah, I guess. 444 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: And it's like the questions I have coming from the 445 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: other side are it's like, well, or the arguments that 446 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: I hear going the other way, it's like, well, at 447 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,919 Speaker 1: the rate of the way they're catching fish, the amount 448 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,640 Speaker 1: of men haden they're bringing in, the bycatch, the habitat 449 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: loss or habitat degradation, Like there's concerns around the longevity 450 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: is that, you know what I mean, like the longevity 451 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: of like how long can is Do you believe the 452 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: way that y'all are harvesting min haden, now, do you 453 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: believe that that is sustainable for not just for min hayden, 454 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: but for the industry for the entire fishery for the 455 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:43,520 Speaker 1: Gulf in that area. 456 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 4: Well, I do, and I think the proof is in 457 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 4: the you know, the fact that we're a very old fishery. 458 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:51,240 Speaker 3: That we've been doing this. 459 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,680 Speaker 4: And listen, I wasn't around in the sixties and seventies, 460 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 4: but when there were no buffer zone and they were, 461 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 4: you know, double the amount of pokey boat captains out there, 462 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 4: I'm certain that they got right up on that beach. 463 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,000 Speaker 4: You know, now that there is a greater scrutiny on you, 464 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 4: I think you're seeing. 465 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:17,400 Speaker 3: That this degree of harvest is not unusual. It's been. 466 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 4: It's been occurring in the Gulf. In Louisiana. There are 467 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 4: three golf plants now and just in the nineteen nineties 468 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 4: there were six or seven. And you know, they've always 469 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,880 Speaker 4: been around and Pogy is still around. And you got 470 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 4: to remember Louisiana calls itself Louisiana Sportsman's Paradise, and that 471 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 4: Moniker came when they were double the Pogy plants or 472 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 4: triple the Pogy plants and double the vessels. So I 473 00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 4: think the attention being shown to the fishery now, you know, 474 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 4: we should always be harvesting stainably and responsibly on the water. 475 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 4: But I think if you say, if you saw a 476 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 4: collapse in the fishery at any time, you would have 477 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 4: probably seen it when there were more vessels in greater effort, 478 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 4: you know, out on the water. 479 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 1: If you kind of kind of final question here for you, Ben, 480 00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: you can tell me if my assumption is wrong. But 481 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: I would reasonably assume that, like the kind of the 482 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: amount of conflict that's happening between commercial and recreational is 483 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: not ideal for anybody, right, Like, nobody's like, man, we 484 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: love this more conflict. No one's doing that, right. So 485 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: when I talked to the guys on the recreational side 486 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: and the charter guys, like they drew up their idea 487 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: of like how we could solve this. 488 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: Issue where you know, we know the resources. 489 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 1: Okay, we can do our jobs and the commercial guys 490 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: can do their jobs. On your end, what is your 491 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: eye deal scenario for sustainable take operating a commercial fishery 492 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: and minimize conflict with recreational guys? 493 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 2: What would you draw up if you had a magical No? 494 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,239 Speaker 4: Well, thanks, I mean I would I would love to 495 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 4: see this die down. I mean, I think the rhetoric's 496 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 4: gotten out of control. I think if everyone acknowledged and 497 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 4: respected the other party too often, where you know, I 498 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,920 Speaker 4: see and again I'm incredibly sensitive to this. The fishermen 499 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 4: that that I represent or vilified and we need to 500 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 4: take you know, take the pressure out of that kettle. 501 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 3: Now is there more? Is there more. 502 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 4: Steps that could occur? Like we're we're trying to reduce 503 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 4: the bycatch by adding you know, different hose configurations. We've 504 00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 4: the companies combined to spend over three million dollars on 505 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:03,360 Speaker 4: getting stronger, different nets to reduce the number of fish 506 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 4: spills and net tears. And you've seen that reduced dramatically, 507 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 4: you know, probably I think a few years ago there 508 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 4: were you know, fifteen to twenty maybe now this year, 509 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 4: I think there were two in those instances where you know, 510 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 4: the vessel just the net got under the vessel. So, 511 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 4: you know, I think we're doing what we can to 512 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 4: be as responsible as possible on the water, and we 513 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,760 Speaker 4: abide by all the regulations that are put on us. 514 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 3: So I think that's where we are. 515 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 4: I mean, all we can do is control what we do, 516 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 4: play within the rules, and we always have an open door. 517 00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 4: I've met with the recreational anglers these groups, you know, 518 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 4: CCA members listen to a number of those guys I 519 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 4: consider friends. We always have an open door. Those discussions 520 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,440 Speaker 4: have not led to any any great place, but we're 521 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 4: always willing to do it. You know, sometimes I think 522 00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 4: perhaps some of these groups don't, you know, they kind 523 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 4: of like the the fervor and the campaign. But we 524 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 4: always have an open door and we'll meet with anybody 525 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 4: to try and figure this out because it is better 526 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 4: for everyone when there's not as much tension out there 527 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 4: in the water, because ultimately it's about safety and we 528 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 4: don't want anything to escalate to a bad place. 529 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,520 Speaker 1: Well, man, like I said, I can tell you what 530 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,040 Speaker 1: I'm for and like when I when I do this show, 531 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:34,840 Speaker 1: especially when I do. 532 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 2: A formal episode. 533 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: I've said it all the time on several episodes, like 534 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 1: my job is not to tell anyone how to think. 535 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: My job is to try my best to present both 536 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: sides and let people make up their own mind what 537 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: they want to do. Like, one thing that I am 538 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:51,680 Speaker 1: unequivocally advocate and advocate for is sustainable habitats are not 539 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: you know, the safety and the longevity of our natural resources. 540 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: So with all that being said, man, unless you have 541 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: anything else to add, I am I'm appreciative of your time, 542 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: and I thank you for being willing to come on 543 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,040 Speaker 1: and share you know, this side of it. 544 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 4: Sure happy to listen. You you're a Missippi. 545 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: Guy, right, yep, yep, born and raised. 546 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 4: Listen, you have a you have an open door at 547 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 4: our Moss Point facility if you ever want to come 548 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 4: over there obviously in Abbyville, Louisiana, if you ever want 549 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 4: to come. You know, we believe as a company we 550 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 4: have a great story to tell. We just try to 551 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 4: seek audiences to tell it too. So if you ever, 552 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 4: you know, down on the coast and and have a 553 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 4: few hours, just give us a call. We'd love to 554 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:35,360 Speaker 4: toy you around. 555 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 2: I appreciate it. 556 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 1: Sure, thank you, Ben all right, man, have it going, 557 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:43,480 Speaker 1: and that's going to wrap us up with this bonus episode. 558 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 1: If you have it yet, be sure to also go 559 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: back and listen to the Pokey Boat episodes so you 560 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: can be equipped with both perspectives. And if you care 561 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: to do any further research, you can find more of 562 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: those published studies at the. 563 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 2: T RCP website. 564 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: I want to thank all of you for listening to 565 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: Backwards University as well as bear grease in this country life. 566 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: It means a whole lot to all of us here, 567 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: and 568 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 2: We'll see all next work