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Speaker 1: I think it's gay or to not have sex than

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Speaker 1: it is to have sex. That's because you've been conditioned

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Speaker 1: by media to never get the payoff have sex. Wait,

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Speaker 1: that's actually really true. Oh wow, I hate that. You

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Speaker 1: know that. I almost named my dog Sunday, who is

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Speaker 1: currently in the studio with us. I almost named her Judy. Really,

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Speaker 1: there have been a few times since I got her

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Speaker 1: that I have felt like I should have done that. Um,

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Speaker 1: maybe it's her middle name, but it was in. It

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Speaker 1: was going to be an homage to Judy Garland because

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Speaker 1: I had a deep, abiding childhood love of the Wizard

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Speaker 1: of Oz. It was probably the thing that, more than

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Speaker 1: any Disney movie, more than any like cartoon, I was

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Speaker 1: obsessed with and like formed a big chunk of my personality.

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Speaker 1: Low and Behold. I grew up and I learned that

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Speaker 1: that's true for like most queer people. And so today

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Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about the Wizard of Oz and

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Speaker 1: all of the Oz inspired media that has spun off from. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the many many many different pieces of tangential I p

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Speaker 1: that have a crewed over a time. Yeah, because this

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Speaker 1: is like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's

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Speaker 1: pop culture today's takes, I'm ros Damo and I'm fran Torado.

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Speaker 1: And before we click our heels three times, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about what's going on in Kansas. In Kansas, probably something transphobic.

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Speaker 1: Was any of the Dropouts set in Kansas? I feel

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Speaker 1: like maybe there might have been a scene there. Well.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I feel like large corporations, especially very corrupt ones,

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Speaker 1: love to like put their bases in random states like

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Speaker 1: that because they know they can get away with more,

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Speaker 1: either tax wise or just like the government doesn't pay

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Speaker 1: attention to or that's where they test people. But I

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Speaker 1: think in the Dropout there, we're actually testing people in Arizona,

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Speaker 1: R right. And on that point, the finale was excellent.

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Speaker 1: What an incredible season of television, A closed loop, incredible

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Speaker 1: performance by Amanda Saford, literally so consistent, like virtually, I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't have any notes, Like I think it's

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Speaker 1: almost difficult to talk about because it was such a

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Speaker 1: wonderful kind of like piece of television. I think it's

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Speaker 1: my favorite show of the years so far, maybe aside

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Speaker 1: from like Euphoria If but like I just like the

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Speaker 1: thing to me is in comparison to all the other

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Speaker 1: scammer shows that are kind of making the rounds right

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Speaker 1: now because they must be compared, Like this was the

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Speaker 1: show to pull off what was a very human performance

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Speaker 1: that like based absolute absurd. It'st like scammery into a

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Speaker 1: reality that you didn't even know existed. Um, I just

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Speaker 1: thought it was so well done, especially now that the

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Speaker 1: Wee crashed kind of like, uh, we crashed. It has

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Speaker 1: not low key fallen off for me, it has high

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Speaker 1: key fallen off. It fell off the top of a

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Speaker 1: whee crashed. I'm just not interested in the why of

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Speaker 1: how this all happened with the dropout, Like I want

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Speaker 1: to know how Elizabeth Holmes scammed everyone, and I'm really

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Speaker 1: interested in her as a character despite her being so

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Speaker 1: obviously evil and psychotic. With We Crashed, I don't care

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Speaker 1: about any of that. Yeah, and with these scammer shows,

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Speaker 1: like they all made the kind of choice to center

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Speaker 1: a lot of the scammer around a romance that you're

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Speaker 1: kind of made to root for. And the thing about

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Speaker 1: like Amandacy Freed's character, are you meant to root for

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Speaker 1: either of them? And We Crashed? I think they're definitely

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Speaker 1: farming for empathy. If you have meat cutes, you have like,

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Speaker 1: you know, moments where they're like sobbing together because they're

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Speaker 1: losing billions of dollars. It's just like, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I actually think it goes a very out of its

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Speaker 1: way to spotlight how toxic they are and how from

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Speaker 1: their very first interaction he was such a douche bag,

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Speaker 1: but she like needed purpose so badly that she latched

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Speaker 1: onto him. There's a scene in the most recent episode

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Speaker 1: that you haven't watched that kind of like backs my

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Speaker 1: argument a little more. But my point is with um

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Holmes and Sonny, like I felt that their relationship

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Speaker 1: which is very weird and very bizarre and very hard

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Speaker 1: to root for at the beginning, the big At the beginning,

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Speaker 1: you're like, this is weird and think it's hard to

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Speaker 1: root for the whole time. See no, see I I

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Speaker 1: was like, this is uncomfortable and I don't really know

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Speaker 1: how how these two characters are going to find chemistry.

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Speaker 1: And then by the by the end when they're like

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Speaker 1: scamming together, you're kind of like, this feels this, this

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Speaker 1: was very real. There was I think, this is what

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Speaker 1: I'm actually trying to say, there was realism in the

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Speaker 1: romance that exists in the dropout that did not exist

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Speaker 1: and we crash her other gam shows. I believed in

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Speaker 1: their relationship because because I think, um, it's a very

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Speaker 1: good depiction of a word that I think gets thrown

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Speaker 1: around a lot right now culturally, which is grooming, and she,

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Speaker 1: I think very clearly was groomed by him, at least

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Speaker 1: in the way that the facts were presented in the show.

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Speaker 1: And I actually thought it was like, one of the

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Speaker 1: best scenes in the finale was that scene where they

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Speaker 1: are it's either in the office or at their house,

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Speaker 1: where they're kind of like making these threats without actually

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Speaker 1: making them, and she says something like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: was so young when we met. How old was I?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember? And it's just it's all right there.

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Speaker 1: She knows exactly what she's doing, she knows she's weaponizing

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Speaker 1: their past against him, um, and it's it's just so brilliant,

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Speaker 1: so brilliantly written, acted directed everything, And also the chilling

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Speaker 1: moment when she turns to her mom and she's like

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Speaker 1: it bad, um if I can't remember, Like what's the

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Speaker 1: truth and what's a lie? Like is it my fault?

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Speaker 1: If I can't even remember? And you see almost briefly,

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Speaker 1: like a person who has lied to themselves so much,

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Speaker 1: but her mother exactly and and and that it was

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Speaker 1: what she was taught to do. Just all of the

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Speaker 1: different layers of the show worked. Um, I have to

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Speaker 1: ask you one thing before we finally hopefully never talked

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Speaker 1: about we crashed ever again. Do you think that Anne

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Speaker 1: Hathaway is wearing the wrong blush on purpose, as like

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Speaker 1: a character choice, or do you think that the makeup

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Speaker 1: artist is just bad because the blush is orange? I

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Speaker 1: haven't noticed. Okay, it's so orange, and I really I

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Speaker 1: can't look at anything else and I don't even notice

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Maybe it's just because I'm starting to

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Speaker 1: wear like, you know, makeup and blush and stuff. But

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Speaker 1: like I just I felt like it was maybe a

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Speaker 1: character choice. I feel like, I'm know, I feel like

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Speaker 1: she doesn't do ship like that, especially because of how

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Speaker 1: much everyone's talking about Jared Letto and his method acting

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Speaker 1: right now. I don't think she cares. I think she's like,

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Speaker 1: just you know, do whatever. I would have thought that

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Speaker 1: too if it weren't for an Anne Hathaway's also bizarre

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Speaker 1: choice to like slightly lower her voice, which I think

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Speaker 1: is very unnecessary. But yeah, but at least she's not

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Speaker 1: wearing prosthetic teeth. At least she's not wearing prosthetic teeth

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Speaker 1: and an anti Semitic like kind of prosthetic nose question mark, Like,

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Speaker 1: has anyone ever talked about that? I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: even know. It's all it's all drag, which does quite nicely.

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Speaker 1: We're all born naked and the rest is Jared Letto

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Speaker 1: is what you're going to say. It does bring us

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Speaker 1: quite nicely to what I want to briefly touch on.

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Speaker 1: I want to give us like a minute tops to

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Speaker 1: talk about drag race. I knew as soon as this

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Speaker 1: episode started we were getting a five person finale. I

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Speaker 1: did throw my TV out the window when it happened. Um,

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Speaker 1: both willow Hill and who was the other one Anigeria?

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Speaker 1: They both were bad. They were both bad in that

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Speaker 1: lip sync double elimination. I love willow Hill, but honestly,

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Speaker 1: she has not been eating recently, and that lip sync

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Speaker 1: was a travesty considering the song that they had. It

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Speaker 1: was a disgrace against Lady Gaga and Beyonce. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you've heard of them. I agree with the

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Speaker 1: with ellipsync Tank. I think that you know, we as

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Speaker 1: a community have been waiting for that song to be

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Speaker 1: a lip sync for a very long time, and they

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Speaker 1: both boofed it. I don't think that, you know, Willow

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Speaker 1: has necessarily let me down. I just think that this

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Speaker 1: wasn't a very strong episode for me. Even the mouse

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Speaker 1: gown I thought good. It felt like a look she

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Speaker 1: brought for something else. It was the only thing she

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Speaker 1: had left to wear. I loved the concept. I just

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Speaker 1: thought that it lacked a little bit of polish. And

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Speaker 1: the thing is, there's just no one else to route

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Speaker 1: for like Camden is, just like Camden has like that

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Speaker 1: would suck so hard. I think she's gonna win. I

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Speaker 1: think she's been getting the winners edit. I think she's

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Speaker 1: honestly to me. To my mind, the top two Camden

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Speaker 1: and Dia because Data has a very good story of

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Speaker 1: how she was eliminated. She's grown so much. She had

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Speaker 1: that like breakthrough a moment halfway during the season. Now

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Speaker 1: she has the diabetes plot line. Well. I loved in

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Speaker 1: this episode the part where they invite them all to

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Speaker 1: the TikTok lunch to be like, okay, so tell us

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Speaker 1: about your tra trauma and one thing I did appreciate

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Speaker 1: was that I guess Rue isn't dead naming the Queens anymore.

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Speaker 1: Them their childhood photos when they you know, when they

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Speaker 1: did got Mick that that season, they were like, we

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Speaker 1: have asked your permission to use this photo or whatever,

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Speaker 1: which is like you can tell that they're putting better

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Speaker 1: people on the team. But um, to me, Okay, Camden

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Speaker 1: being a winner or even being in the finale, it's

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Speaker 1: just like her place is deserved. It's just she doesn't

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Speaker 1: have anything distinctive or ownable about her. It's kind of

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Speaker 1: like a Courtney Act problem where it's like, yeah, you're

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Speaker 1: just kind of like hitting all the marks and you

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Speaker 1: can clearly afford really nice costumes and you're a triple threat.

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Speaker 1: But that's like beyond that when you take all of

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Speaker 1: that away, like what's left? And I think that when

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Speaker 1: you think about, you know, the pillars of the show

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Speaker 1: and like charisma, uniqueness, nerve, and talent, it's like Camden

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Speaker 1: to me lacks like the charisma and the uniqueness. I

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Speaker 1: think she has the nerve, and I think she has

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Speaker 1: the talent, but I just I don't think she has

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Speaker 1: the first half of like what's required of a star.

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Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Yeah, I agree. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited to see Phoebe waller Bridge um win Tracker

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Speaker 1: um by which I mean Lady Camden looks like literally

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Speaker 1: exactly like her. Unfortunately, Phoebe waller Bridge is not taking

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Speaker 1: home one hundred thousand dollars for the Killing Eve Dollar.

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Speaker 1: There's the money, but have you seen the swirl of

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Speaker 1: controversy that is around the Killing E finale, which, by

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Speaker 1: the way, I didn't even know Killing Eve was airing,

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Speaker 1: had no idea. I knew it was airing, I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that it had ended, but I did see people

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Speaker 1: talking about it on Instagram today and just how awful

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Speaker 1: the finale. The girls are mad, mad, things are abundant. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm staying far away from a pink news is today.

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Speaker 1: The girls are down bad queer blames. They're like, we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about we'll talk about lesbian's one day a year. Absolutely. Um.

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Speaker 1: I have to say, the function of art and how

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Speaker 1: we make it is not to make you feel safe

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Speaker 1: inside of this, Like like, if you don't feel safe,

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Speaker 1: if you don't like watching things that don't make you

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Speaker 1: feel safe, you don't have to watch it to tell

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Speaker 1: compelling stories, and so it's like to me, it's like

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Speaker 1: if you're going to like calling attempt critique as you say, like,

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Speaker 1: you're not going to sit here and say this is

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Speaker 1: how like this made me feel and it betrayed me

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Speaker 1: personally and therefore is bad. You can say that, but

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Speaker 1: it just doesn't hold much weight. You should be critiquing

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Speaker 1: it because the finale was just bad, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, Like find ways to talk about how the

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Speaker 1: Barrier Gaze trope is like bad because it's repetitive and unoriginal,

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Speaker 1: not because you feel betrayed. I also don't think you

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Speaker 1: can say that the main character of a TV show

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Speaker 1: dying in the last episode of before season show a

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Speaker 1: character who was an assassin, is Barrier Gaze. It's not

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Speaker 1: you can't just say any queer character who dies is

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Speaker 1: Barrier Gaze because what if you're watching a horror movie

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Speaker 1: that is literally the function of horror movies just to

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Speaker 1: kill people for entertainment. This is a serial murderer thriller,

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Speaker 1: Like that is like what I can't I can't I

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Speaker 1: get that the I get that the esbians are down bad,

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Speaker 1: you know, Find another show, find something, Go read a book,

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Speaker 1: go touch grass. Please go outside, go outside, find some

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Speaker 1: other queer people in real life and talk to them.

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Speaker 1: Go to a community center. Go I don't know, learn

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Speaker 1: to knit. I don't do something. Okay, that's true. As

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Speaker 1: our producer just said, Lesbian, I just mean, take all

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Speaker 1: that energy you use telling people, telling like directors and

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Speaker 1: like actors online to kill themselves, and put it towards

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Speaker 1: actual queer liberation what whatever, whatever way you can find

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Speaker 1: that that is because I'm I am so apologetic to

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Speaker 1: tell you that you will never find queer liberation in

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Speaker 1: a TV show ever, period. And I have to say,

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Speaker 1: if you want to feel liberated, you should go and

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Speaker 1: see everything everywhere, all at once. Oh my god, for Angela,

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Speaker 1: I I have not had that kind of emotional, cathartic

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Speaker 1: moment in a movie, and I like six months it

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Speaker 1: was so in at least six the last time I

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Speaker 1: watched Frozen, Oh my god, that show. That movie, Like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it exceeded my already impossibly high expectations. Like

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say, better multiverse movie than Spider Man, No Home.

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Speaker 1: The new Doctor Strange movie has you know, it's work

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Speaker 1: cut out for it, because Michelle, y'all really just it's

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Speaker 1: the Scarlet Witch. Oh my god, I would watch that movie.

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Speaker 1: I mean the clip circulating right now she is in Marvel, yes, exactly,

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Speaker 1: But I think, honestly, I'm thinking about that about her

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Speaker 1: role in Marvel as a character that kind of can

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Speaker 1: is just one of the many characters that has let

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Speaker 1: her down as an actress and and and has failed

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Speaker 1: to show her versatility um, despite the fact that she

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Speaker 1: has very badass and chan chi. But like, my this

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Speaker 1: the clip that's circulating right now of Michelle Yaw kind

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Speaker 1: of tearing up and talking about how when she read

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Speaker 1: the script she felt that this was the first time

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Speaker 1: someone could finally see what she was. But it's so

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Speaker 1: true and like this film, which you know, no spoilers,

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Speaker 1: but like the premises, it's like Michelle Yaw owns the

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Speaker 1: laundromat um with her family and discovers that she belongs

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Speaker 1: to a multiverse that she is kind of like the

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Speaker 1: chosen one to like save basically, um, it sounds crazy,

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Speaker 1: but like you buy into the movie really quickly, which

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Speaker 1: I think is honestly. The complexity of the universe that

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Speaker 1: they build is so actually quickly understood, which is so

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Speaker 1: hard to do. You know, what I mean, Like I

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Speaker 1: get so lost in plots like that, and like you

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Speaker 1: just understand or the rather you click into it so immediately,

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Speaker 1: all of the action, all of the comedy, all of

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Speaker 1: the kind of like emotional like resonance of like each

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Speaker 1: of these performances just like stuck the landing in every way.

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Speaker 1: Like what were your favorite parts from this? Well? I

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Speaker 1: thought it was so funny. I laughed so much while

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Speaker 1: watching it. Um, the parts that made me the most

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Speaker 1: emotional were the rocks. Oh you know, you have to it.

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Speaker 1: It was so good, I think. Um, her husband, who's

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Speaker 1: played by Kahai Kwon, was so great, and I found

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Speaker 1: him very sexy. He was in the scene the universe

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Speaker 1: and where he was in the suit where she was

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Speaker 1: a singer so hot. Um, and all of these actors

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Speaker 1: ability to play so many different selves, like so many

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Speaker 1: different versions of the same character, Like the actor. I

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Speaker 1: thought her daughter was really good. I, Um, she's in

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Speaker 1: Marvelous Mrs Maisel, and I've always thought she was pretty

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Speaker 1: good in that as well. Jamie Curtis and Jamie Curtis,

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, the Hot Talkends Universe, so goody. It's

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Speaker 1: such a such a good movie and I think like,

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Speaker 1: and you know we're after this, I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about Severance because we both started watching Severance this weekend,

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Speaker 1: and I do think like there's something linking these two

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Speaker 1: things together because they both do what really good science

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Speaker 1: fiction is supposed to do, which is take something that's

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Speaker 1: really grounded in reality and really human and blow it

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Speaker 1: out through science and technology, like like create a universe

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Speaker 1: and that is very like our own, except like humans

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Speaker 1: have figured out how to do one thing and here

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Speaker 1: like and everything everywhere all at once. It's like this

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Speaker 1: central idea of what if, Like what if I had

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Speaker 1: made this choice? What if my life had gone this way?

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Speaker 1: And that is a very relatable feeling. I think we

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Speaker 1: all feel like that from time to time. And on

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Speaker 1: that note, like in terms of like the sci fi

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Speaker 1: the world building of it all, like we have to

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Speaker 1: champion original films because the only things popping off right

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Speaker 1: now are like exactly Marvel movies, reboots, sequels, like and

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Speaker 1: this is such an annoying and cliche like kind of

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Speaker 1: like thing to say, but it's so true, and like

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Speaker 1: this is a movie that we as a culture like

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Speaker 1: wait for in terms of like a completely novel originality

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Speaker 1: that is entirely like like entirely in its own right,

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Speaker 1: like beautiful and stunning and like flawless, like I don't

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Speaker 1: use that word lightly, even though that's so uninteresting to say. Also,

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Speaker 1: Jenny Slate was so good to see, and with the

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Speaker 1: dog so good. I don't think I will say I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's a perfect movie. There were parts of

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Speaker 1: it that I thought, like, I think the end is

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Speaker 1: like very the the emotionality like almost becomes a little

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Speaker 1: sacharin um, And I think like some of the things

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Speaker 1: are wrapped up a little too tidily, but it kind

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Speaker 1: of doesn't matter because the strokes are so broad yet

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Speaker 1: the emotions are so specific that it all just really works.

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Speaker 1: I just, on a taste level, tend to enjoy more

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Speaker 1: saccharin things, but regardless, like you and I did sob

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Speaker 1: through the last like third thirty minutes at least, and

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Speaker 1: then and I saw this movie alone. We both saw.

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Speaker 1: I left afterwards, went down to the parking garage, sat

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Speaker 1: in my car and cried more because I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about my mom. And the movie hits you multiple times

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Speaker 1: because there's so many layers to it. It's just a beautiful, beautiful,

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Speaker 1: beautiful film. A movie that and you were talking about

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Speaker 1: the last time you cried. I just want to quickly

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Speaker 1: sneak in um the fact that like this, Uh. I

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Speaker 1: watched this movie the day after I saw Coda, which

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Speaker 1: was a movie that I quickly discovered was not Belfast.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I think I had conflated the two

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Speaker 1: in my head as like the white contenders for the Academy,

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Speaker 1: you know when, for Best Motion Picture. And so when

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Speaker 1: I sat down to watch it, because it was this

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Speaker 1: year's Best Picture winner, I had a very emotional experience

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Speaker 1: to it. The logline is like a girl is the

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Speaker 1: only hearing member of a deaf family, and she really

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Speaker 1: loves to sing, and so she is basically deciding whether

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Speaker 1: at the end of high school, whether she's going to

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Speaker 1: pursue singing as a dream or whether she's going to

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Speaker 1: stay with her family to support them because she's the

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Speaker 1: only one that can hear. And so, like another movie

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Speaker 1: that I like, sobbed through the last thirty minutes of

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Speaker 1: actually like a movie that, like I I started crying

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Speaker 1: and then like just kind of continually cried. But I

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Speaker 1: was also trying to like eat um, like the barbecue

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Speaker 1: that I had ordered, and so like, my nose is

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Speaker 1: really stuffed up. And then another crying moment happened, and

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Speaker 1: so I was like, because my nose was stuffed up,

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Speaker 1: I started like sobbing and then choking on my own food.

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Speaker 1: Like wow, I was crying. A very visceral experience. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was, but it definitely, definitely, definitely see that movie.

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Speaker 1: I think it's worth, you know, a month of Apple

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Speaker 1: Apple TV Plus if you subscribe, So I pay for

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Speaker 1: Apple TV Plus. It's um, And so it was very

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Speaker 1: easy for me to once I saw that everyone was

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Speaker 1: talking about the show Severance, to decide to give it

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Speaker 1: give it a go um, which actually is like a

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Speaker 1: very hard thing for me to do because I do

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Speaker 1: not just like try out new TV shows without feeling

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Speaker 1: pretty confident that I'm going to like them. And I

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Speaker 1: was kind of, I guess, the way the people were

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Speaker 1: talking about it and some of the like stills I

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Speaker 1: was seeing on Twitter, I was kind of expecting a

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Speaker 1: succession vibe for some reasons. I guess I thought like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is Apple TV's succession and it's so not. It

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Speaker 1: is okay to give you the logline. Severance takes place

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Speaker 1: in a world where people can have a procedure done

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Speaker 1: called severance, where when they go to work they completely

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Speaker 1: forget their outside lives and become this blank slate persona,

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Speaker 1: and when they leave work, they can't remember ever anything

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Speaker 1: that happened there. So it's essentially like bifurcating these people

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Speaker 1: and like kind of lobotomizing them literally. It's it's starring

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Speaker 1: Adam Scott, Patricia arquette Um and directed by Ben Mark.

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Speaker 1: He's been working on it for like five or six

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Speaker 1: years or yeah, and it's really creepy. I think the

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Speaker 1: cinematography is really beautiful and the show, if you watch

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Speaker 1: the trailer, the trailer very succinctly kind of shows you

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Speaker 1: a little bit of what you're trying to sign up for.

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Speaker 1: And I thought that it would maybe be more ham

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Speaker 1: fisted in its critique of, like, you know, the workforce,

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Speaker 1: or in its critique on like capital and our relationships

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Speaker 1: to like our work. But I actually feel like what

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Speaker 1: the show tries to say about work is not too

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Speaker 1: heavy because it prioritizes the suspended tention totally. It's much

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Speaker 1: more about the storytelling that about any sort of like

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Speaker 1: think PC metaphors. Yes, to be totally honest, this show

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Speaker 1: is maybe not as much to my taste, because the

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Speaker 1: suspended attention is something that like, I feel like I

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Speaker 1: need a buddy while I'm watching it. It is actually

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Speaker 1: very very spooky, It's very tense. The show reminds me

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Speaker 1: a little bit of how you experience wand division in

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Speaker 1: that when you go into it for a lot of

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Speaker 1: the a lot of time you're kind of like, what

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Speaker 1: am I watching? Like you spend a lot of time

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00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,040
Speaker 1: trying to figure out the world a lot of cogs

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00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: or in your if and if you don't have context,

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Speaker 1: it's like you're kind of just along for the ride.

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00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: You kind of concede yourself to these the TV makers

405
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: And obviously they're very different shows. But I'll be interested

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Speaker 1: to see how severance pays off. Yes, I really want

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00:23:48,240 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: to know what's coming at the end. One of my

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00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: earliest childhood memories is tying an afghan that my grandma

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Speaker 1: had made me around my body, like like you would

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Speaker 1: a towel, you know, like to like a feminizing of

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Speaker 1: Cowe moment as queers, I want to do to I

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00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 1: want to swap themselves in fabric of some kind um

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Speaker 1: and I would, you know, imagine myself wearing a blue

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Speaker 1: and white and gingham dress. Because all I wanted when

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00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,240
Speaker 1: I was a little child, childer neutral charm um was

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Speaker 1: to be Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. Of course,

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00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: I mean she's she is the archetype. Um. I also

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Speaker 1: feel like I really wanted to be Dorothy. This is

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00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: an interesting episode of both of us, and that neither

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Speaker 1: of us are virgins, but this was very formative to

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Speaker 1: us personally and therefore is worth talking. And that's our

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Speaker 1: podcast and will do whatever the funk we want, do

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Speaker 1: whatever the we want. Um, you know, on the note

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Speaker 1: quickly of queer swath I slapping themselves in fabric, I think, like,

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Speaker 1: what is that? What? Why is it a queer right

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Speaker 1: of passage to wear a blanket as a dress or

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Speaker 1: to like pull it over as a cable you just

428
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 1: send a staircase to like you know, let it fill,

429
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: or like yeah, exactly exactly, Um, but yeah no similarly, um,

430
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,080
Speaker 1: the Wizard of Oz was just one of the most

431
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 1: prominent things of my childhood. I read the book over

432
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,439
Speaker 1: and over and over again in like, I don't know,

433
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: what when do you read those books? Like first or

434
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: second grade? I was more of a movie girl. It

435
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: was about the movie. For me, it was Judy Garland

436
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: Margaret Hamilton's Down, you know, the girls were girling. I

437
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: would I probably watched The Wizard of Oz every day

438
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,520
Speaker 1: when I was a kid. I had a book that

439
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: had the script and also lots of like photos and

440
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: behind the scenes stuff, and I would page through it

441
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,200
Speaker 1: as I watched the movie, and I would like color

442
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 1: in it and make notes. It was The Wizard of

443
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 1: Oz was my whole life. I was obsessed with it.

444
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: There there were these porcelain dolls that were sold at

445
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,040
Speaker 1: do you remember the Franklin Mint. There's a store in

446
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: the mall that sold collectibles, and they had a um

447
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: a line of Wizard of Oz porcelain dolls and like

448
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: that sounds haunting, and I needed to have them. And

449
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:37,439
Speaker 1: like obviously, like I was a and dolls were like

450
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: not were frowned upon, but I like kicked and screamed

451
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 1: so much that I have the Dorothy one and I

452
00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: had the Wicked Witch one. I and I might have

453
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 1: made them kiss one of my of course, of course,

454
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: as we always do. One of my earliest Halloween costumes

455
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: was the Tin Man and my cousin was Dorothy, and

456
00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: I remember being like just see the jealousy that I

457
00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 1: had to be this ugly, asked him, men with this

458
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: ugly ass mask. Um, maybe I think this is finally

459
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: the year that I'm Dorothy for Halloween because now my

460
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: dog looks like Toto. Oh my god, Rose, I didn't

461
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: even think about that component. Thank god it's April. I

462
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: don't have to think about Halloween. But can the dress

463
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: be like, you know, like' or something. We're going classic?

464
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,359
Speaker 1: Come on, you're not gonna do it like Harry Style

465
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: is doing that Gucci Dorothy dress as we say, as

466
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 1: we say in the industry megap However, his single oh Yeah,

467
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: we didn't talk about it as it was we are

468
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: we are newly we are newly radicalized Harry Styles. I've

469
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,679
Speaker 1: never listened to a Harry Styles album before, but I was, like,

470
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: I have been listening to this over and over because

471
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: it's so short and has like it's one of those

472
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: TikTok songs that has no actual emotional, like cathartic payoff,

473
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: so you have to listen to it seventy two times

474
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: in order to feel because the catharsis um. But I was,

475
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,159
Speaker 1: I was, you know, taking a late night trip to

476
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 1: Sweet Green as I often do picking up my Sweet

477
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 1: Green and the Harry Styles song played, and I thought

478
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: of you, and it was anyway, it's going to go

479
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: back to oz. Um. I okay, So Wizard of Oz

480
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: the thing I loved most as a child, come come

481
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: to find out as a queer adult that it's like

482
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: the gayest thing in the world. Oh, I thought you were.

483
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,120
Speaker 1: I thought you were going to say that the entire

484
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: production was curse. Oh yeah, we I think we all

485
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: know that. Okay, good, that's what I thought. I feel

486
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: like people that know the Wizard of ozin no, we

487
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: all know about like the guy hanging in the cornfield,

488
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: which apparently wasn't a real thing that wasn't real was

489
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: an ostrich. I'm sure there's a YouTube video you can

490
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: watch about it. Honestly, if you just watched Duty starring

491
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: m Rene's what's her name, sorry, Renee's Alwigger. Like, I

492
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: do actually think that contextualizes a lot of the really

493
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: horrible things that happened on set, which like we'll get

494
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: into the duty of it all. But what about the movie,

495
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: So you said, like, um, you were talking about how

496
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 1: like maybe it's this innate kind of gaines queerness that

497
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: is in the movie like if I don't know, I

498
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 1: don't know if it's about like the any like subtext

499
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: or metaphors. I think I just loved the fantasy. I

500
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: loved the story. I wanted to go away to the

501
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: magical land of Oz and really I wanted to be Dorothy.

502
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,160
Speaker 1: She was it. She was to me, Judy Garland, Dorothy Gale,

503
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: the pinnacle of feminine beauty that like I, as a

504
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 1: little burgeoning tranny, wanted to inhabit. And the thing about that,

505
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: and we on this podcast firmly believed that the word

506
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: camp is overused and often misused all the time. But

507
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: Judy's Dorothy is the definition and the beginning of like

508
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: an era of like women in film that would do

509
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: a kind of camp performance, an emotionality that is like

510
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: over the top and yet like deeply unaware of, like

511
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, how much it goes. I don't know that

512
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: I agree with that. I mean, I've I think I

513
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 1: feel like I've read so many like you know whatever.

514
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 1: I know, I think there's an argument to be made

515
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 1: either way, and like, certainly this podcast is not about

516
00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: debating what is camping, But I think I see it

517
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: more as like she understood the movie she was in

518
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 1: and like a big well did she like big MGM

519
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: spectacles of the time, Like that was the kind of

520
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,959
Speaker 1: heightened like the kind of heightened performance that she needed

521
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: to give. I think it's actually like pretty self aware.

522
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,959
Speaker 1: I and she also was like being plied with like

523
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: pills um you know. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. She

524
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: definitely I don't think that. Then in that case, I

525
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 1: don't think there's self awareness. And I don't think she

526
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: knew what movies she wasn't, you know? She was my point.

527
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. I know why you're resistant to

528
00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: like even talking to even talking about Duty and Alexa

529
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 1: kind of camp. But I think that because she predated

530
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: resistant to talking about Judy. I'm talking resistant to having

531
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: a conversation about what is camp or not? But I

532
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: think I think the reason and I agree, I also

533
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: just don't really care about it. But I think the

534
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: reason I bring it up is because a lot of

535
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: camp that exists today is deeply aware of itself. It's

536
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: it's part of a camp factory or the manufacturing of camp,

537
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: and like Judy's performance is camp in its purest form,

538
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? She didn't know that the

539
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: way she would make her eyes all gooey, or the

540
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: way she would like wall like every time something was wrong,

541
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,280
Speaker 1: or the way her eyes are really good, always on

542
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: the brink of tears, which always Judy was going through

543
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 1: literally and she was being tortured on that can you

544
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: imagine this movie? She was fighting for her life? And

545
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 1: I don't And I mean that both joking way in

546
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: a literal way, but like it couldn't have been anyone else,

547
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: Like could you have imagined this movie if Shirley Temple

548
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: was Dorothy and stud which like like can you imagine?

549
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: But that's but I love I love her drink. I

550
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: think the point I would like to order what I

551
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 1: feel like I was responding to a kind of a

552
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: kind of emotional self that I really wanted, you know

553
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,080
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I think that we're you know,

554
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: we're often taught to be like ashamed of like our

555
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: emotions and like how we react to the world. And

556
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 1: like Judy was so you know, inordinately herself. But that

557
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: I mean, the movie is is fucking gay, Like it

558
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 1: is the source material is gay. I actually like I

559
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 1: didn't read the Oz books as a kid. I recently

560
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: found out because of a TikTok that I sent you.

561
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 1: I don't know if you watched it. Um about how Ozma,

562
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 1: who is one of the rulers of oz is canonically trans. Wait,

563
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: how so she is um put in the body of

564
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: a boy because like some kind of royal shenanigans um

565
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:01,280
Speaker 1: and then like discovers her and her woman. But it's

566
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: it's like it is cannon that she is trans That's

567
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: amazing and honestly, like it makes so I read UM.

568
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: I think that like at least two, if not three

569
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: of the books, I don't remember anything. I just remember

570
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: loving them as a kid, and I do know that

571
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: like they were all very dark and very violent. They

572
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,760
Speaker 1: got um. I think initial criticism found the books actually

573
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: too violent, and so they actually like waned in violence

574
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,959
Speaker 1: as he started making more and more literally murder someone

575
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:37,960
Speaker 1: and Dorothy murders two people. Yes, And well, I think

576
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: that's also the magic of the film is the film

577
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,840
Speaker 1: is able to render something that's actually really violent as

578
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: like you know, fantastical and silient, like you know, the

579
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: way the Witch of the East has these you know,

580
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: striped stockings on that make it fierce fierce um. And

581
00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: so I think that, you know, the movie um renders

582
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: all of that darkness and violence in a very pristine

583
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,479
Speaker 1: MGM way. And so I think it's interesting to see

584
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: things like Returned to Oz or the Whiz adaptation of

585
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: the movie that really leaned into the original L. Frank

586
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: Baum like kind of vision, which was darkness violence like

587
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 1: kids can handle. Oh yeah, because you have only experienced

588
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: Return to Oz for the first time today. For me,

589
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: Returned to Oz was one of the most formative pieces

590
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: of media in my childhood. UM. So, Returned to Oz

591
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: came out starring for a ball. It's it's about Dorothy

592
00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: going back to Oz and Oz is all fucked up,

593
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:48,239
Speaker 1: and it is an incredibly dark, twisted, beautiful fantasy. Um

594
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: it's so weird. It has one of I think one

595
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,280
Speaker 1: of the most iconic villains of all time, Queen Mombi,

596
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,240
Speaker 1: who is a which who is a hall of women's

597
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: severed that she keeps so that she can wear a

598
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: new head every time. She's like feeling herself, which also

599
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: feels very trans to me, very trans. The movie opens

600
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:17,080
Speaker 1: with Dorothy's um and uncle being so like shook about her,

601
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:20,040
Speaker 1: talking about, you know, like her visit to Oz, that

602
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,680
Speaker 1: they commit her to a mental institution where she received

603
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 1: where she almost undergoes shock therapy. Can I I this

604
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 1: is not this is not a drag. I watched the

605
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: movie specifically because you told me how formative it was

606
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: to you. And within the first five minutes of this film,

607
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 1: I understood everything about what you know because there is something.

608
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: I mean, it is somehow very archetypal, but also like

609
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: it's so so dark two wheelers, the guys who have

610
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: wheels for hands. No, but I mean, I'm so scary,

611
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: so very scary. But I'm talking about the act and

612
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,440
Speaker 1: the talking chicken also sucked up. The actual conceit of

613
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 1: the movie is like like to to be and it

614
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: is like on paper it was trying to be a

615
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: sequel to Judy Garland's Wizard of Oz. Like they had

616
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: to pay but it's not a musical. They had to

617
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,239
Speaker 1: pay MGM, like an inordinate amount of money just for

618
00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,240
Speaker 1: the rights to say the word like ruby slippers, because

619
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,000
Speaker 1: that was original to the movie. Wasn't in the books,

620
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: um and the like. But to have to start a

621
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: movie that's like and M and all the people people

622
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 1: you love don't believe that entire thing that happened to you.

623
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 1: They think you're crazy. They think you are crazy, the committed.

624
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 1: They have you committed for electronic shock therapy. And here

625
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,760
Speaker 1: you are trying to tell people about like your friends

626
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:45,319
Speaker 1: and this like kind of traumatic thing that you went

627
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 1: to the and it went through, and they're all telling

628
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: you that it's not believe you. Um, and you get

629
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,760
Speaker 1: sent to a magical fantasy land with your talking chicken

630
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: and a woman wants to cut your head off so

631
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: she can wear it. Yeah. But my point in that is,

632
00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:00,439
Speaker 1: like the fact that these were trying to be more

633
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: true to the darkness of the al frank Baum's Bomb

634
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: books was something that I really appreciated as an O

635
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: G lover of the books, and like I uh did

636
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 1: a little google about like when these books came out,

637
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: and he like al frank Baum was trying to kind

638
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: of change children's books a little bit. He like loved

639
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 1: kind of Hans Christian Anderson books, but he thought that

640
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: the fact that they taught kids like lessons and morals

641
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,480
Speaker 1: was really unnecessary. Like he didn't see the function of that,

642
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: even though like The Wizard of Oz is filled with

643
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: these like populist allegories. Um. But the uh the within

644
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 1: a decade span when The Wizard of Oz came out,

645
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: the books that also came out were like Beatrix Potters,

646
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: like you know, Peter Rabbit or whatever, all of Jack

647
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: London's books, The Little Princess, and of Green Gables, The

648
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: Secret Garden, Wind in the Willows, Peter Pan like all

649
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: of these was this boom h yeah, the boom and children,

650
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 1: all of these people trying to kind of turn and

651
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: revolutionize and change the kind of story on kids books.

652
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: I think is very interesting in the context of like

653
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz, because it really was trying to

654
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: make kids feel more like adults or rather, or rather

655
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't trying to pander to kids. It was it

656
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: felt like kids could handle the level of fear, because

657
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:28,240
Speaker 1: I think it explores in a really um profound way

658
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: the terror of being a child. Ah. That is such

659
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: a good way of because being a child is terrifying, terrifying,

660
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: It's terrifying and wonderful and equal measure, and I think

661
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 1: that's something the Wizard of Oz and any good Oz

662
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: property understands. And I actually liked in Return to Oz

663
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: that Dorothy was younger that she had been in the

664
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz because it makes more sense for the story.

665
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: Al Frank Balm al Frank bam Road two editorials asserting

666
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: that like the only way like to like white victory

667
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: was like for the wholesale genocide of like native people

668
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 1: in this country in the nine literally. I mean, nothing's

669
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: about that is surprising, But as I always say, it's

670
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: just like, you know, let history stick to create the

671
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,799
Speaker 1: creators of the things that you love. Um, did you

672
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 1: ever watch The Whiz? Like the movie adaptation? I have

673
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: watched The Whiz. I've also seen, you know, a production

674
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: of it. I've always wanted. Was when I was in

675
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: high school my freshman year, thought was our musical for

676
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,640
Speaker 1: the year. Oh, I thought you meant a real production?

677
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 1: I was also, I was. I was in The Whiz

678
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: in my predominantly white high school. I was in a

679
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: production of The Whiz as um one of the you know,

680
00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,399
Speaker 1: one of the bricks in the Yellow Brick Road. It's

681
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: not I will say it's not one of my favorite musicals.

682
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: I mean there's some great songs in it. Um. You know,

683
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: I have seen at probably every theater competition or like

684
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 1: audition I've gone to, I've seen someone try to do home. Yeah,

685
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a perfect song. I The Whiz is

686
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 1: one of my favorite musicals, and I think that's part

687
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: of the reason why I actually don't love a lot

688
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: of the movie. Um, but what I was going to

689
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 1: say to your earlier point is that something that I

690
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: did really like about the film adaptation was that they

691
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: kind of, you know, made Dorothy, I think, a thirty

692
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,600
Speaker 1: year old like school teacher who lived in Harlem, and

693
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: the the kind of Kinsey is like she's never you know,

694
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,240
Speaker 1: been south of Harlem and and all of a sudden

695
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:42,839
Speaker 1: she's in Oz, which I think is like a really

696
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: smart and adult way to to kind of update the

697
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: story of The Whiz. Although it's like sad to know

698
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: that the reason they did that is because like Dana

699
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: Ross was just like too old to play Dorothy by

700
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: the time they hired her, but she had just campaign

701
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: for the movie. Apparently the movie really would not have

702
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: gotten made of Diana Ross hadn't, I guess, fought so

703
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,600
Speaker 1: hard for it and they really wanted to replace her

704
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 1: with Stephanie Mills the o G. But I guess she

705
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 1: just like had a big, big power play. But I

706
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: watched it recently because I had read an interview where

707
00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 1: Molina Mitsukas had said that she had floated the idea

708
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: of a Whiz adaptation to Solange, which, like Milina Mitzukaus

709
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: is like one of my favor kind of like visual artists,

710
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: creative director people, and I think Solange in The Whiz

711
00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: would be her kind of like Mini Ripperton, kind of

712
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: like voice would lend itself so well to like the

713
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: musical stylings of this film, and like, I honestly think

714
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: that was a part of why I'm curious to hear

715
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,879
Speaker 1: what you thought about The Whiz, because I felt like

716
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 1: the music is kind of the best part of this entity,

717
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: and the music was not really championed in the movie

718
00:41:57,360 --> 00:41:59,120
Speaker 1: outside of like can You Feel Brand New Day, which

719
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: I think is really well done, and also Home obviously

720
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: was well done. But I don't think the musical lends

721
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: itself to Diana's voice as much as I wanted it

722
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: to at that stage career. I mean, I have to

723
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 1: be honest, I'm just kind of ambivalent about The Whiz.

724
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of emotional stakes in it.

725
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,440
Speaker 1: I think the music is fine for the most part,

726
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 1: um I don't think a lot of it's very memorable

727
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,799
Speaker 1: at least for me. Um, Yeah, it just doesn't do

728
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 1: it for me. It's okay, I will I will do

729
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 1: all of the Whiz standing for us because it meant

730
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 1: I think it meant a lot to my high school career.

731
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: It was something that I just really loved. Um. But

732
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,879
Speaker 1: I guess another reason why the movie. Well, first of all,

733
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 1: I have to say that Diana Ross is home like

734
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: in this movie. When I watched it for the first

735
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: time recently, I was like, this is the precedent, like

736
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: the predecessor, or maybe even the reference for Anne Hathaway's

737
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: I Dreamed a Dream because she does that move the

738
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 1: Cheeta does that song all one take on like a

739
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 1: black screen behind her with a very tight close up

740
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:08,959
Speaker 1: on her face. Yeah, and Diana Russ did the exact

741
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: same thing, which is extremely difficult to do as an

742
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 1: actor and even more difficult to do as like someone

743
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: who's singing and acting. You know what I mean. I

744
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: think that those parts of the movie are things that

745
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: I loved. But um, the Whiz was like famously, like

746
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:28,919
Speaker 1: the movie was famously a huge flop, because huge mega

747
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 1: flop do Docaca because it was so amped up. I

748
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: think it was an I p that's obviously so culturally beloved,

749
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 1: and I think that having all these stars set up

750
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: in the movie did not really give the audience what

751
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,840
Speaker 1: they wanted because all of the stars are covered in

752
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 1: prospect extent and like you can't really see Michael Jackson

753
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:54,120
Speaker 1: in this like Scarecrow, Like you can't really and and

754
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:56,839
Speaker 1: also again the movie really leaned into like L. Frank

755
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: Baum's kind of like darknesses, um And I felt like

756
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: that was off putting to a lot of audiences at

757
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: the time. But I think that creative director, in terms

758
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 1: of the creative direction of the movie, it is much

759
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: like Return to Oz, very brilliant and very adult and

760
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 1: very ahead of its time. You know, it is so

761
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: weird and polarizing and like, um, uncomfortable at times, and

762
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: I felt like that was a strength of the film overall,

763
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: that is not necessarily commercially viable, and honestly reminded me

764
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,200
Speaker 1: a lot of um, did you see that where the

765
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,800
Speaker 1: Wild Things are? Adaptation the Dave Eggers one. It reminded

766
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:36,879
Speaker 1: me a lot of that because here you have like

767
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:41,560
Speaker 1: a filmmaker taking a globally beloved I P, like an

768
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: i P that is like so important to a lot

769
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 1: of people from a children's perspective that if you do

770
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: a single thing to cross it, it's a betrayal, you know,

771
00:44:51,280 --> 00:44:53,879
Speaker 1: to to go back to an earlier theme and so

772
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,759
Speaker 1: what and then for the filmmaker to take this and

773
00:44:56,840 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: to kind of warp into like a weird, dark existential

774
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: movie that has a lot of like adult themes and

775
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:09,000
Speaker 1: some great music by Karen O and some great music

776
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: by Karen Oh. Like, both the films kind of delivered

777
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,919
Speaker 1: something that the audiences didn't sign up for. But that's

778
00:45:14,960 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: not a fault of the filmmaker or even the audience,

779
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's just kind of was

780
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: like a disconnect and how the film maybe the films

781
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 1: were either marketed or like kind of ramped up where

782
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,680
Speaker 1: the wild things are. And also the Whiz just basically

783
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: made like a big, like a weird, long, scary arthouse film.

784
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: But something that was extremely commercially successful and continues to

785
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: be continues to be until we die is Wicked the Musical,

786
00:45:42,239 --> 00:45:45,840
Speaker 1: which we have talked about on this podcast before. Yes,

787
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: um too much. According to producer Phoebe, well, you know what,

788
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: I I drink my coffee out of my Wicked the

789
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: Musical mug every morning. Phoebe's in the booth right now,

790
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: hurling tomatoes at us stage. You know, I think every

791
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:14,160
Speaker 1: generation it has its Wizard of Oz retelling, and that's

792
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: just like a um that's just like a hallmark of

793
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:23,040
Speaker 1: culture now because it now is public domain, because it's

794
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: public domain. So that's why we see it reinterpreted in

795
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 1: so many ways over and over again. And I think,

796
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,239
Speaker 1: you know, we've seen so many versions of it through

797
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: many different lenses, like through like different cultures, through different

798
00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:41,240
Speaker 1: like musical styles. And I think the reason why Wicked

799
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,000
Speaker 1: is so successful is because the framing of it is

800
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: just like through it started this whole craze of wanting

801
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: to give like a villain origin story like Wicked, I

802
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: think is the originally not not just the musical, but

803
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: the book by Gregory McGuire, which which the musical is

804
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 1: based on, and like is much more it's much weirder

805
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 1: and like more political and gayer than the musical. Before

806
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 1: I even knew it was going to be musical, I

807
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: read the book because I saw it in like Borders

808
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,200
Speaker 1: or Barnes and Noble, and like, of course I was

809
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: obsessed with the Wizard of Oz and like especially the

810
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,719
Speaker 1: Wicked Witch of the West, which is I think like

811
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: an interesting dichotomy on buying personality. Is as much as

812
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with Dorothy when I was a kid,

813
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 1: I was just as obsessed with the Witch. Oh yeah,

814
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: of course, because I'm a bad girl. I was really

815
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 1: scared of her as a kid and fell in love

816
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: with her through Wicked. If we were to place ourselves

817
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: in time during the Wicked craze of two thousand three,

818
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,640
Speaker 1: I can remember it so vividly. What are some things

819
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,439
Speaker 1: you remember? I I know I was in UM show

820
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: choir and then musicals at the time, so everyone in

821
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:55,280
Speaker 1: my show choir was obsessed with it. Like we even

822
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: sang a song from it um I think for our teacher,

823
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:03,000
Speaker 1: as like our our senior song. Long but obviously Okay,

824
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 1: let me tell you where I was. So I was.

825
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: I went to it an art school. I was a

826
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: theater major. I was like the my whole life revolved

827
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 1: around theater when we heard about Wicked the Musical, because like,

828
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,920
Speaker 1: we were very up to date on what was happening

829
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: in theater. Immediately, I was on the Wicked the Musical

830
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: website every day, listening over and over to the snippets

831
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 1: they had of the song oh my God, not this,

832
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: and then the snippets and I had them memorized. And

833
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 1: then it transferred to Broadway and I would go on

834
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: Broadway dot com or maybe it was like Broadway World

835
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 1: dot com and I would watch the like clip packages

836
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: that they had that had footage from the show over

837
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:50,320
Speaker 1: and over and over again. And then for my sixteenth birthday,

838
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: my birthday trip was a trip with me, my friend Angelina,

839
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 1: and my mom to go to New York City and

840
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: see Wicked the Musical and I saw it on Kristen

841
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: China with enormalate Leobutts his last performance, and it was iconic.

842
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: I was obsessed with it because I was a fag,

843
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,399
Speaker 1: but I wasn't in the fandom the way you were. Well,

844
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 1: let's be honest about it. The music is not great.

845
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:18,160
Speaker 1: There are some of it. There's some of it that's good,

846
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:23,520
Speaker 1: but Stephen Schwartz is like very hit or miss um.

847
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: It has not aged well. I don't mean that in

848
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 1: that it's like problematic or doesn't hold up. I mean

849
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,000
Speaker 1: it's literally been running too long. My friend Ryan and

850
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: I saw it a couple of years ago. We won

851
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: the lottery and as we were leaving, we're like, Okay,

852
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: this needs to close, and then like a new production

853
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 1: of it can open as a revival six months later,

854
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: but we need to change things up again. But then,

855
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: like a month ago, I went to see a touring

856
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,479
Speaker 1: production of it in Costa Mesa, and what you talked

857
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 1: about on the pod, which I did talk about on

858
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,880
Speaker 1: the podcast, but it did revide my love for Wicked.

859
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:01,360
Speaker 1: For I didn't mean to cut off your thought. I'm sorry.

860
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,080
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a good musical, but it's a

861
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 1: great musical. You you don't think it's you don't think

862
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,680
Speaker 1: I said what I said. You don't know, I said,

863
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 1: I don't. It does not need any further explanation. I

864
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 1: don't think it's a good musical, but I think it's

865
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: a great musical. I I actually understand innately what you're

866
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: trying to say. What is my favorite song? You asked,

867
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:30,000
Speaker 1: cutting me off, Um, I would say my favorite song

868
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: or either the bridge in Thank Goodness where where um

869
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 1: Glinda has her little moment. That's why I couldn't be

870
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 1: happri um or I mean the Wizard and I obviously

871
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: you know that's the moment that's that's the moment that

872
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:56,280
Speaker 1: when I was, you know, a sophomore in high school,

873
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:59,240
Speaker 1: my friend and I would put the Wicked CD into

874
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 1: the D player in her Honda Civic and we would

875
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:07,640
Speaker 1: both scream the words too, and we would be like,

876
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:11,720
Speaker 1: you're a pitchy, you're a flat I hope you're happy. Um,

877
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 1: And she'd be like, and we would like get to

878
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: as long as your mind to be like, you have

879
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: to do the boy parts. Oh of course, wow, that

880
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: is the fatal that is honestly such a funk you. Um.

881
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: I My favorite song was Popular, which like perfectly popular

882
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: is the most fun. It also like just perfectly set

883
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: up the dichotomy between these two characters. But also I

884
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: just see myself in Glinda so innately. Well, when it

885
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: comes to this podcast, You're the Glinda, I'm the alphabet.

886
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 1: We all know this to be true. I feel like

887
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:46,160
Speaker 1: every queer relationship has like a well, okay, have you

888
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:48,759
Speaker 1: ever heard that, Like every gay relationship has a C

889
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:51,600
Speaker 1: three P O and an R two D two? Have

890
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: never heard that? Okay, Well, it's true, like I'm you Well,

891
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: I was, well, I was gonna say that, like I do,

892
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 1: I do believe that to be true, I think every

893
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: gay relationship has an R T D two and C

894
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,600
Speaker 1: three b O. But I think like maybe like every

895
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: like T for T relationship has an alphabet, and Glinda

896
00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,439
Speaker 1: like I think that relationship has an alphabetic. Oh, that

897
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,880
Speaker 1: makes much more sense because they are gay. But but Glinda,

898
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 1: as you've said before, is like a little trans like

899
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: has a slightly trans is born into something that she

900
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,320
Speaker 1: didn't choose and but everyone demonizes her for it. Also

901
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: in the book, alphabet is possibly intersects. Yeah, um, there's

902
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,799
Speaker 1: it's a whole thing. Okay. But of the Wizard of

903
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: Oz characters, who are we I think I am? This

904
00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,120
Speaker 1: is I mean, I'm not the cowardly Lion. I think

905
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,280
Speaker 1: I'm either the tin man or the scare I'm the scarecrow.

906
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: I'm kind of an idiot and I love life because

907
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: of that, you know, like I I really actually, um

908
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: for the most part, like blissed out when I choose

909
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: not to kind of subscribe to a certain termoil or

910
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: problematizing of things. Okay, And who am I I mean?

911
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: I think I mean if you're no, actually I think

912
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 1: if you're not Dorothy, I do think you're the cowardly Lion.

913
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,319
Speaker 1: I think that's I think never even considered that. I

914
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: think I would. I think I would. So I have

915
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: male energy, is what you're saying. Well, you know the

916
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:30,160
Speaker 1: Cowardly Lion. Do they really have a gender because in

917
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,480
Speaker 1: the movie when she's getting listen within the movie, when

918
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: she's getting buffed and puffed, honey, when she is like

919
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 1: in OZ and she's getting her nails done, she's getting

920
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: her main done, she's like sitting down that little she's

921
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:43,399
Speaker 1: like having her you know, her self care day. Like

922
00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,439
Speaker 1: I remember as a child, not adult, I remember as

923
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:51,000
Speaker 1: a child, as a tourist child like looking at that

924
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: image and being like that has to be so amazing.

925
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,799
Speaker 1: Like I love the makeover montage when they go to

926
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 1: the Emerald City. Okay, wait, one thing we do know

927
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: for sure is while Dorothy was like asleep when they

928
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: were on the Yellow A Road, the tin Man, the

929
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 1: Cowardly Lion, and the Scarecrow were sucking and sucking. They

930
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: were gonna exaust Well, I think maybe it started out

931
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:14,960
Speaker 1: as just being the tin Man and the scarecrow, and

932
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:16,960
Speaker 1: then the Cowardly Lion like woke up one night and

933
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 1: was like, what's going on? And they were like, all right,

934
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,320
Speaker 1: coming actually dissect the dynamic between these four characters, because

935
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: it is actually really weird. The movie, like kind of

936
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,480
Speaker 1: the movie kind of leads you to believe that Dorothy

937
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 1: thinks the Scarecrow is like her faith. There's a there's

938
00:54:33,520 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: a romantic undertone and there should not be. Well, I

939
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: mean when she's saying goodbye and she's like I'm gonna

940
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,600
Speaker 1: miss you most of all, and the other ones are like,

941
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: excuse me, what a fuck you? What a fucking bit?

942
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: That's actually like that. It was right here, girl, your

943
00:54:49,160 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: balloon has been taken off yet like text her later, girl, like,

944
00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:56,120
Speaker 1: don't say that in front of these other girls. I

945
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out. But they're dynamic to them.

946
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: For the three of them is like so interesting. It's

947
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,719
Speaker 1: supposed to be kind of like three stoog z. Yeah,

948
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,839
Speaker 1: like a band of of underdogs kind of moment. And

949
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: they all all each of them possess skill sets that

950
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 1: the others lack, which I think is like, you know,

951
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: the mix of like really good like character dynamics. Okay,

952
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: of their three, whose song would you cut? I immediately

953
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: thought of the Whiz unfortunately, and how the Tin Men's

954
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: song is so subpar um. But going off the MGM movie,

955
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: off of the MGM, I would cut the tin Man's again. Yeah,

956
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,800
Speaker 1: because the scarecrows if I only had a brain is

957
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:44,480
Speaker 1: cannon now. And it even informs like you know, euphemisms,

958
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 1: like things that we say in culture, like if I

959
00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: only had a brain, And the cowardly line, like his

960
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: line delivery of courage, you know what I mean, is phenomenal, Like,

961
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:55,799
Speaker 1: I think that's an amazing character. If I could cut

962
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,879
Speaker 1: one song, it would be the Cowardly Lion song. Why

963
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 1: I hate it? It comes to in the movie because

964
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:03,319
Speaker 1: it happens when they're at the Emerald City. It does

965
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,160
Speaker 1: and like, baby, we're past the whole thing where we're

966
00:56:06,160 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 1: talking about what we need, like yeah, we gotta we

967
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: gotta go kill this witch. Let's get moving. But that's

968
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: a movie structure problem. I think the song, actually, I

969
00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: think the songs I don't even know. See, well that's

970
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,839
Speaker 1: the other thing. Okay, here's that thing actually is it's

971
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,839
Speaker 1: not even really a song. It's this actor kind of

972
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 1: doing very very specific character choices that I think are

973
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 1: totally like original, Like who like for him to be like, yeah,

974
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go in and like gargle, like my lines,

975
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,480
Speaker 1: like for him to do the kind of you know

976
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about? How he was how yeah, yeah exactly.

977
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,839
Speaker 1: How you know when we when I go home from here,

978
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,839
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look up ten Man Scarecrow fan fiction. Oh

979
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: don't do that, and you know what, there's gonna be

980
00:56:53,040 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: a lot of it, and it's gonna be It's gonna be. Okay. So,

981
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, like L. Frank Baum like did

982
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:21,200
Speaker 1: not want to learn lessons in this movie, or rather

983
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: learn lessons from his books, but the movie does try

984
00:57:25,160 --> 00:57:28,120
Speaker 1: to teach you a lot of things. I feel, Okay,

985
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: what did you learn from it? Well, I was going

986
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,880
Speaker 1: to ask you that, like what I just asked you,

987
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: So you have to go first, Okay. I feel like

988
00:57:36,040 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: with all four of the kind of heroes, the movie

989
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: is trying to show you that you are in and

990
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 1: of yourself like a whole person, Like you possess everything

991
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 1: you need to love and accomplish like your life, and

992
00:57:51,640 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: are kind of tendency to see everything that we don't

993
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:58,480
Speaker 1: have makes us feel not like whole people and like

994
00:57:58,520 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 1: we can't do what we need to do, when in

995
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 1: reality we fully can't do what we need to do.

996
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: What do you think I The Wizard of Oz made

997
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: me transh that's my answer, and I don't have a

998
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: deeper answer than that. It's just the Wizard of Oz

999
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: is absolutely the thing that made me realize that like

1000
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: I was or wanted to be a girl when I

1001
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,600
Speaker 1: was little. Is there You said, you don't have a

1002
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 1: deeper answer to that, And yeah, I am farming for

1003
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 1: a deeper answer. What other good luck we've we've alluded

1004
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:33,919
Speaker 1: to to um trans subtext in The Wizard of Oz?

1005
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:37,040
Speaker 1: I p in general, like what what what do you

1006
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,320
Speaker 1: think you saw in the story or in the characters

1007
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 1: where you were like I understand this to be or

1008
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: rather I'm trance because of this, I just wanted to

1009
00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: be Judy Garland. I mean, she is the perfect archetype

1010
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: of a very specific kind of femininity that I wanted

1011
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 1: to be and loving that movie helped me access it.

1012
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: A pure heroine. And and what's interesting about the character

1013
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: of Dorothy is she's not interesting like she on paper.

1014
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 1: Now she has a plint with upon other things. And

1015
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:15,120
Speaker 1: and they say, you know, obviously, like these um metrics

1016
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 1: didn't exist at the dawn of filmmaking. Which The Wizard

1017
00:59:18,200 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: of Oz is largely kind of like seen as this

1018
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: like the dawn of contemporary Yeah, um, even though this

1019
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 1: didn't exist. Like they always say, like a bad bad

1020
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:32,920
Speaker 1: character writing is when characters don't make any decisions and

1021
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:36,440
Speaker 1: things just happen to them. And that is exactly Dorothy,

1022
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: like she doesn't know her what she wants drives the

1023
00:59:39,840 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 1: entire movie. She wants to go home, but she doesn't

1024
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:44,640
Speaker 1: make any decisions. That's not true. She decides to go

1025
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: to the Emerald City. No, the Witch tells her to

1026
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 1: do it. Dorothy says, I want to go home, and

1027
00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: the and Glinda says, well, then you have to go

1028
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,360
Speaker 1: see the Wizard. Dorothy's if desire to go home drives

1029
00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 1: the entire plot of the movie. If I may fin

1030
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: is my point, which I think you will actually agree with.

1031
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: Things really do just happen to her, And that is

1032
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:10,160
Speaker 1: in a lot of like screenwriting considered bad writing or whatever.

1033
01:00:10,440 --> 01:00:16,200
Speaker 1: And yet Judy Garland's performance like is so like magnanimous

1034
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: and sucks up like every single kind of like moment

1035
01:00:19,680 --> 01:00:23,000
Speaker 1: that you it doesn't even matter that plot wise, she

1036
01:00:23,160 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: really isn't doing anything because the emotional steaks are in

1037
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:31,200
Speaker 1: every scene. I unfortunately fundamentally disagree with you because I

1038
01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: think she has the most class. I mean, it's somewhere

1039
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 1: over the rainbow. So there's a thing in musical it's

1040
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: called the I Want song, and it's at the beginning

1041
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: of a musical where the lead sings a song that

1042
01:00:44,240 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: tells you what it is they want. And somewhere over

1043
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,959
Speaker 1: the rainbow, what Dorothy wants is she wants to get

1044
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: out of her life and like find something more magical

1045
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: than it. And she gets that, and then she realizes

1046
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,480
Speaker 1: that she wants to go home. And she spends the

1047
01:00:59,600 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: rest of the movie doing everything she can, literally murdering

1048
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 1: people so she can achieve what she wants. She didn't murder,

1049
01:01:07,080 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 1: but but she she didn't murder either of the witches.

1050
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 1: Pose no, but she does what she has to do

1051
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 1: to get what she wants. So I I will, respectfully,

1052
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:20,960
Speaker 1: but she does. The movie is driven by her desire.

1053
01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:24,120
Speaker 1: Is that the desire is not an action, So what

1054
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 1: is this is so stupid? But like, what are the

1055
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 1: actions that she takes? She follows the Yellow Brick Road.

1056
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: There's literally a song about it because Glinda told her to.

1057
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:36,680
Speaker 1: She didn't make that decision but she still makes the

1058
01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:40,520
Speaker 1: action she could have not. I'm not even nagging the movie.

1059
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:43,880
Speaker 1: I'm actually giving, like Judy Garland a huge compliment. I

1060
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: think that what I'm not saying, you're nagging the movie.

1061
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: I just think we have you have different viewpoints on this.

1062
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: My point is, and I think it's very clearly laid

1063
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 1: out in like the song lyrics and the text of

1064
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,480
Speaker 1: the movie, that Dorothy makes decisions. I think we were

1065
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: I think we're potentially both right. Um. I and I

1066
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:05,640
Speaker 1: feel like I see what you mean about her being

1067
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,720
Speaker 1: very reactive, like I didn't mean to kill her, my

1068
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: house fell on her. Like Dorothy is placed in circumstances

1069
01:02:14,280 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: and and without like trying to be but based on

1070
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:23,360
Speaker 1: the circumstances, she makes decisions and actions that drive the

1071
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 1: plot forward. And I and I disagree, but I but

1072
01:02:26,600 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: I I think my my point is that that none

1073
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:33,360
Speaker 1: of that matters. And I think that it's a testament

1074
01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:37,320
Speaker 1: how brilliant the film is that a character that is

1075
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:41,680
Speaker 1: so flatly written still has emotional stakes and like every

1076
01:02:41,680 --> 01:02:44,440
Speaker 1: single component of the film because of the performance and

1077
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: because of the music, and because of all of the

1078
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: things that make the Wizard. I mean, how could she

1079
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:50,200
Speaker 1: have action? When the Witch gets set on fire, she

1080
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: throws a thing of water on her and kills her

1081
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 1: on But she doesn't do it, she doesn't do it

1082
01:02:54,680 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 1: on purpose. But still it's still an action that she takes. You.

1083
01:02:57,800 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: It's not a decision to say she actually tries to

1084
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: save her life. You are, you are? You are actually

1085
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: sit show telling the Virgins. I think this actually conversation

1086
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: is perfect and it says a lot about both of

1087
01:03:09,960 --> 01:03:13,439
Speaker 1: us as people. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm I'm

1088
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:17,440
Speaker 1: but I am saying that I'm also right. I think

1089
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 1: they can both be true. And I think that's the

1090
01:03:19,240 --> 01:03:22,600
Speaker 1: wonderful thing about The Wonderful Wizard of Oz is that

1091
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:27,320
Speaker 1: it came out almost a hundred years ago and we

1092
01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: can still have this kind of discussion about it. And

1093
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: that's amazing and that's our show. But so I'm going

1094
01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:40,880
Speaker 1: to click my heels three times and We're going to

1095
01:03:41,120 --> 01:03:44,840
Speaker 1: go back to Los Angeles. We were in Oz this

1096
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:49,360
Speaker 1: whole time. We were Why it wasn't I warned? We'll

1097
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 1: be back next week to talk about the horny gay

1098
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 1: Dumbledore movie that is going to be the best queer

1099
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:59,600
Speaker 1: representation on screen. Get this sty so excited. Let's let's

1100
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 1: keep the expectations are real high. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah. So

1101
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:07,680
Speaker 1: if you want to go see, uh, you know, the

1102
01:04:07,760 --> 01:04:10,680
Speaker 1: Secrets of Dumbledore, please do. If you want to pirate

1103
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: it and not give jk Rowling your money, do that.

1104
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,160
Speaker 1: If you don't want to do any of them and

1105
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:16,400
Speaker 1: you just want to hear us talk about it, that's

1106
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,920
Speaker 1: fine too. Tell us what you want us to talk

1107
01:04:18,960 --> 01:04:21,360
Speaker 1: about next, whether it's a show, a book, a cultural

1108
01:04:21,360 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 1: phenomenon we want to hear from you. You can call

1109
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 1: to confess at three to three pennants. That's three to

1110
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: three seven three six two six two three. Leave us

1111
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:33,600
Speaker 1: a review on Apple podcast It helps us a lot,

1112
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 1: even if it's a little spicy. I'm your co host,

1113
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: Rose domn You. You can find me online at Rose

1114
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,960
Speaker 1: Domin I've rander Otta. You can find me at friends,

1115
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: squish co anywhere you want. You can subscribe to Like

1116
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,200
Speaker 1: a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, and please leave

1117
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 1: us a rating on Spotify and a review on Apple Podcasts.

1118
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: Like a Virgin is an I Heart radio production. Our

1119
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 1: producers BB with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane,

1120
01:04:56,840 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 1: chitch and Nikki etre until next week. See you later

1121
01:04:59,880 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: for Rgins made Somewhare Gonna Rimba