1
00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:09,119
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,160
Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:13,920
Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

5
00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:26,960
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

6
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

7
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,200
Speaker 3: They call me Ben. We're joined as always with our

8
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:36,239
Speaker 3: super producer, Paul Mission Control decand most importantly, you are you.

9
00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,879
Speaker 3: You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't

10
00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,520
Speaker 3: want you to know worldwide technically, because that's how podcasts work.

11
00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:49,320
Speaker 3: Tonight's episode takes us around this vast globe of ours

12
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,520
Speaker 3: into a web of proven conspiracies, not conspiracy theories, proven

13
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:59,320
Speaker 3: conspiracies that have gone on for decades at the very least,

14
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 3: and are going to continue because they're mainly invisible for

15
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,160
Speaker 3: the vast majority of humans. I mean, we we were

16
00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,720
Speaker 3: talking about this a little bit off air, and uh,

17
00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 3: Paul Rocket Launch Decad said, hang on freeport, like in

18
00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,600
Speaker 3: Tenant by Christopher Nolan.

19
00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, precisely, precisely, and like in what was it last

20
00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,759
Speaker 2: season of what's that show about all the rich people?

21
00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:31,520
Speaker 2: Based on the Fox success success it's in billions. Uh,

22
00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,600
Speaker 2: this these freeport things, they're popular.

23
00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,560
Speaker 4: It's a rich people think quick question that we'll understand

24
00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:40,360
Speaker 4: your freeports help me understand the plot of Tenant better

25
00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,120
Speaker 4: or or no, no, not really.

26
00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 3: But the but you can read some excellent uh, some

27
00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 3: excellent film theory and analysis on Tenant. I think Tenant's

28
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,680
Speaker 3: a three watch. I think by the third time, you

29
00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,200
Speaker 3: know it either makes sense or you just sort of

30
00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:04,600
Speaker 3: give up at all. But like freeports are interesting, Matt's

31
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,679
Speaker 3: You're Not in Succession another work of fiction. They're described

32
00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:13,679
Speaker 3: as my father has some Financial Impressions, which I thought

33
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,160
Speaker 3: was a cool euphemism. This is a sordid tale of

34
00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,799
Speaker 3: billionaires in crime and fine art and stolen antiques, dirty

35
00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:26,520
Speaker 3: muddy trafficking, terrorist cartels, all gathered in a strange set

36
00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,760
Speaker 3: of locations that are in a very real sense, in

37
00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,640
Speaker 3: a very literal sense, they are above the laws of

38
00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 3: the common and the poor. And it's strange that, despite

39
00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,320
Speaker 3: how expensive it is to get into these things, we

40
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 3: still commonly call them free ports. I can't do the

41
00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:55,360
Speaker 3: air quotes hard. Here are the facts.

42
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,120
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you mentioned the idea of these euphemisms.

43
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:02,399
Speaker 4: Would you say, like some economic impressions, isn't the term

44
00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 4: freeport essentially a euphemism in and of itself. It doesn't

45
00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 4: really mean what it seems like it should mean, right,

46
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,160
Speaker 4: because they're very expensive, you know, to to participate in.

47
00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,639
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, for the private services offered at a lot

48
00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,360
Speaker 2: of them. Right, But they are free from molestation by

49
00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:25,080
Speaker 2: the government in like of the country you're porting in.

50
00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,600
Speaker 3: I love describing rule of law as molestation. Yeah, yeah, right,

51
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,640
Speaker 3: free from all these pesky rules that the common have

52
00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,880
Speaker 3: to practice. There's sometimes called freeport now is like a

53
00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 3: street name for a genre of what we call special

54
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,880
Speaker 3: economic zone. They can sometimes be called free economic zones

55
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 3: or free territories or just free zones because there's not

56
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:52,880
Speaker 3: always a water port attached to these locations and their

57
00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:57,440
Speaker 3: goal overall is to encourage economic activity.

58
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:01,080
Speaker 4: Well, for we mere mortals, the closest thing to a

59
00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,600
Speaker 4: freeport that we can actually benefit from be like a

60
00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:04,720
Speaker 4: duty free shop.

61
00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,080
Speaker 2: In the US, they have government designated zones.

62
00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:12,880
Speaker 3: Right right, which are totally different and above board because

63
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,680
Speaker 3: it's this US.

64
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:18,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, But the idea that the nature of your or

65
00:04:18,720 --> 00:04:21,839
Speaker 4: whatever where this place exists is it's sort of this

66
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:26,400
Speaker 4: liminal space economically speaking, That's kind of what duty free

67
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 4: shops or zones are as well, where you can if

68
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,920
Speaker 4: you have an international ticket, you can buy stuff without

69
00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,600
Speaker 4: paying duty taxes on them, like things like liquor and

70
00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,520
Speaker 4: perfume and whatever else they have at those places.

71
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but theoretically these well correct me if I'm wrong here, guys.

72
00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 2: But my understanding is that these things are often set

73
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,320
Speaker 2: up so a big company can bring something like steel

74
00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,159
Speaker 2: in and they don't have to pay the tariffs and

75
00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 2: all the taxes on that raw steel they bring in.

76
00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,560
Speaker 2: Then they can turn that steel in or near the

77
00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:02,320
Speaker 2: freeport into something new and then export it from that freeport,

78
00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,520
Speaker 2: and then they pay the country, the freeport's country the

79
00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,160
Speaker 2: taxes on exporting it.

80
00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, and we'll get into we'll get into that as

81
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:15,159
Speaker 3: well in tonight's episode. Yeah, Like that's a that's a

82
00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,960
Speaker 3: perfect encapsulation of when it's supposed to work correctly. According

83
00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,120
Speaker 3: to the revised Kyoto Convention of two thousand and three,

84
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,440
Speaker 3: a freeport is quote a part of a territory of

85
00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 3: a contracting party, which could be anyone, by the way,

86
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:34,760
Speaker 3: where any goods introduced are regarded as being outside of

87
00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:40,120
Speaker 3: the territory of that country. So the import duties, the tariffs,

88
00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,880
Speaker 3: the taxes, they don't count. It's kind of like another

89
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:49,359
Speaker 3: microcosm since said do you freestore. Another microcosmic example of

90
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,719
Speaker 3: this would be if you are traveling internationally and you

91
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:55,440
Speaker 3: have a layover in a second country before you get

92
00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,520
Speaker 3: to your destination country. You don't leave the airport, right,

93
00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,760
Speaker 3: You just hang in the lounge, get you know, coffee

94
00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,720
Speaker 3: or whatever, and you never have to clear customs. You

95
00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:09,840
Speaker 3: can do that with things as well, especially if you're

96
00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,000
Speaker 3: quite wealthy. I will say, in most cases, if you

97
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,560
Speaker 3: are regular Joe Schmoe traveling around, so.

98
00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,320
Speaker 2: We're talking about like a night stay over a couple hours.

99
00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,039
Speaker 4: Right, if you don't leave the airport, if you have

100
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,040
Speaker 4: to leave the airport and come back or whatever, then

101
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:26,000
Speaker 4: I guess it resets.

102
00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 2: I mean with the stuff going into a freeport, you

103
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:29,760
Speaker 2: just leave for a couple hours, right.

104
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,480
Speaker 3: So yeah, the in most cases, if you are human traveling,

105
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 3: there is an implied agreement that you will only be

106
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,320
Speaker 3: at that airport or that's liminal space, as we said,

107
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,599
Speaker 3: for a certain amount of time. This does not necessarily

108
00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:48,359
Speaker 3: apply to the things. Originally, and we'll just summarize the

109
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,680
Speaker 3: history here so we can move on. Originally, a lot

110
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:54,000
Speaker 3: of like we see freeports of all of in step

111
00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,640
Speaker 3: with the modern idea of the nation state, because you know,

112
00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,880
Speaker 3: you look at things like the Automan Empire, for instance,

113
00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:06,360
Speaker 3: they were a theocracy. However, they also liked money and

114
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 3: they needed economic passage between the infidels and the Ottomans,

115
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,160
Speaker 3: and so they would have these specific areas where you

116
00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 3: could go as a merchant and you didn't have to

117
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 3: you know, convert Islam. A lot of empires did this.

118
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:27,119
Speaker 3: You also could ostensibly preserve your own identity within these

119
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,920
Speaker 3: limited spaces. That's the one of the origins of freeports.

120
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,640
Speaker 3: And they were big in colonialism as well. Singapore, Hong Kong,

121
00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 3: Saint Thomas and the Caribbean. They all had these things,

122
00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:46,559
Speaker 3: and they mainly evolved to They primarily evolved to help

123
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,480
Speaker 3: people pass customs get away with customs. How would we

124
00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,280
Speaker 3: describe customs. I think it's familiar to most people have.

125
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 4: Traveled well, and I just wanted to point out to

126
00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,080
Speaker 4: you I traveled it nationally recently, and I hadn't for many,

127
00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:00,800
Speaker 4: many years, and have you know a few times in

128
00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,840
Speaker 4: the last handful of years. But customs isn't the same

129
00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:07,240
Speaker 4: as passport control, right like when you pass through into

130
00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,560
Speaker 4: a new country and you go through that thing where

131
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,880
Speaker 4: you have the line of like windows and you have

132
00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,080
Speaker 4: to show your passport and you get you might get

133
00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:15,840
Speaker 4: a stamp there as well, But that's not the same

134
00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,760
Speaker 4: as customs because they're not it's not your your destination.

135
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,680
Speaker 4: So your final destination is where you have to like

136
00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 4: declare what you may have brought that could be subject

137
00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,320
Speaker 4: to these kinds of import export duties.

138
00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,160
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, they're best to think of it as a

139
00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:36,400
Speaker 3: ven diagram. Today, Clearing customs is usually colloquially took to

140
00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 3: mean the passport control. Right you're landing, you know, hopefully

141
00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,200
Speaker 3: you got your visa or whatever, and you have more

142
00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,319
Speaker 3: than ten thousand dollars US. You have to declare it

143
00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,240
Speaker 3: at customs, which doesn't mean they're going to take it

144
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:53,920
Speaker 3: all the time most of the time in fact. But

145
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 3: the way it works is you present your pass where

146
00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,559
Speaker 3: your other paperwork, you answer hopefully a few questions, you

147
00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,440
Speaker 3: might get a little fun stamp, and then you go

148
00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 3: on your merry way. But the experience widely varies depending

149
00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:11,199
Speaker 3: on any number of variables. So these factors could include

150
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,840
Speaker 3: things like your destination country, your ultimate your point z

151
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,640
Speaker 3: your origin country. That's a huge one. What kind of

152
00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,920
Speaker 3: passport you have for any international travel nerds? Right now,

153
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 3: the number one best passport is Singapore. That gets you

154
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:31,080
Speaker 3: into the most places. Huh interesting, that's cool. You got

155
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,400
Speaker 3: some freeports. They're down to clown And you know, there's

156
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 3: stuff that obviously you shouldn't bring with you that will

157
00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,440
Speaker 3: make trouble at customs, like Heroin. Don't you know a spoiler,

158
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,600
Speaker 3: don't bring Heroin with you abroad. You know, in general,

159
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,520
Speaker 3: don't do Heroin. But then there are other things that

160
00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,360
Speaker 3: might surprise foreigners, you know, like if you ever travel

161
00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:55,000
Speaker 3: to a place and they have some pretty hard bands

162
00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,920
Speaker 3: on different fruit or vegetables or animal products, like Australia.

163
00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,960
Speaker 3: Hawaii's big for this. Hawaii enforces this on other residents

164
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,280
Speaker 3: of the United States just because of their unique ecosystem.

165
00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,920
Speaker 4: Certain types of maybe pork products that are processed in

166
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,280
Speaker 4: a certain way that is not permitted here in the

167
00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:19,000
Speaker 4: United States, for example, like Iberico ham or that is

168
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 4: actually illegal to bring back from Spain. I was told

169
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:23,120
Speaker 4: by that butcher.

170
00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 3: Oh I didn't know that.

171
00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:27,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, it has to do with the way it's processed

172
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 4: and cured or something like that. I don't know exactly

173
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,199
Speaker 4: the specifics, but you are not allowed to travel back

174
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,120
Speaker 4: with it, and when you do end up in customs

175
00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,199
Speaker 4: back in the US, there's a lot of signs about parasites,

176
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,679
Speaker 4: the little cute infographics saying be careful, don't bring back

177
00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,400
Speaker 4: whatever because it could be an invasive species and cause

178
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:48,440
Speaker 4: all kinds of chaos in the ecosystem of Atlanta, and

179
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:49,199
Speaker 4: like raw.

180
00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,559
Speaker 3: Milk with Canada and the US border exactly.

181
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would just want to go back to something

182
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:55,920
Speaker 2: you have in the outline here, Ben. It is really

183
00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,560
Speaker 2: interesting and just mentioning Singapore as being having like one

184
00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,079
Speaker 2: of the best passports makes sense that you found Singapore

185
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,000
Speaker 2: was one of the early freeports, and I think for

186
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 2: my understanding of Hong Kong's relationship between China and the

187
00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,680
Speaker 2: rest of the world, it also is really interesting that

188
00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 2: it once was or was a freeport early on, because

189
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,120
Speaker 2: it would make sense as almost a way to get

190
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,240
Speaker 2: into China or do dealings with China, or for trying

191
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,680
Speaker 2: to do dealings with other countries. Back in the day,

192
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:28,080
Speaker 2: you could use Hong Kong as almost this, as you said,

193
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:29,479
Speaker 2: a liminal zone.

194
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,240
Speaker 3: Up till nineteen ninety nine. I think that's really when

195
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:38,400
Speaker 3: the lease expired. So yeah, in Singapore course, being in

196
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:42,280
Speaker 3: an autocracy based at the Strait of Malacca, which they

197
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,240
Speaker 3: largely control. Look, so let's say you bring in more

198
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 3: than ten grand or whatever it is. You've got a

199
00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:54,200
Speaker 3: valuable artifact, it belongs to a museum type stuff. You

200
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,319
Speaker 3: declare that a customs because you don't want to get

201
00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,440
Speaker 3: in trouble. You want to be by the book. These

202
00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 3: things might not be technically illegal, but they'll invite some

203
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 3: scrutiny that will almost certainly complicate your trip. So if

204
00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,160
Speaker 3: we're a terrorist organization or a shadowy billionaire, how do

205
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,240
Speaker 3: we get around all this bureaucratic hub up. The answer

206
00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,960
Speaker 3: is simple, put your stuff in places where laws don't apply.

207
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:24,440
Speaker 3: Find yourself a real life Schrodinger's box. Your objects are

208
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,880
Speaker 3: physically present, but they are not considered to exist in

209
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,720
Speaker 3: the country in which they're stored. They're just in transit

210
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,720
Speaker 3: on the way to somewhere else. Loophole.

211
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:40,760
Speaker 4: Sorry, it just seems made up, doesn't It's weird.

212
00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,800
Speaker 2: It's like agreed upon indivisualized pirate bays or something, you know,

213
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:47,320
Speaker 2: where everybody can sail in.

214
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:53,720
Speaker 4: Stuff it's like codified the opposite of object object impermanence,

215
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,960
Speaker 4: or it's like I don't see anything. Why I don't

216
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,320
Speaker 4: see that?

217
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,520
Speaker 3: Are those blood diamonds? Yeah, but they're not here the

218
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 3: diamonds you're looking for.

219
00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,160
Speaker 2: All these guys with machine guns.

220
00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,920
Speaker 3: Hey, they're in transit and punk brace. Yeah, I mean.

221
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,680
Speaker 3: The first modern freeports were meant to prevent what you're

222
00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:19,400
Speaker 3: describing mat which is a really good point. Double taxation

223
00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,640
Speaker 3: and in places with like VAT or value add attacks,

224
00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,800
Speaker 3: this is a huge deal. So you could say, hey,

225
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,839
Speaker 3: we're a bunch of manufacturers in Australia. We got this machinery.

226
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:32,480
Speaker 3: It's going to go to the United Kingdom, but it

227
00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 3: has to make stops along the way, and if we

228
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 3: use freeports then we won't get taxed or tariffed at

229
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,439
Speaker 3: every single stop. Theoretically, this makes sense and you need

230
00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,840
Speaker 3: it for global business. But the boffins, the eggheads, the

231
00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,040
Speaker 3: legal beagles quickly realized there is no time limit on

232
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,839
Speaker 3: this concept of being in transit. They're parking lots with

233
00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:01,600
Speaker 3: no no clock. You can deposit something. As a matter

234
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,080
Speaker 3: of fact, many people have, including stuff Nazis stole back

235
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,400
Speaker 3: in World War two, you could just deposit it in

236
00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:12,560
Speaker 3: a freeport and then it'll appreciate indefinitely. Eventually you can

237
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:14,480
Speaker 3: sell it, and depending on how you sell it, you

238
00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:16,720
Speaker 3: never have to pay a dime of tax or a pence,

239
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:17,880
Speaker 3: I should say. Yeah.

240
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,960
Speaker 4: So when you use the term like deposit, the implication

241
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,920
Speaker 4: there is that not all freeports involve water, right, not

242
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,680
Speaker 4: all freeports involve a port per se.

243
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,440
Speaker 2: Right, Well, an airport is also a good.

244
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,120
Speaker 4: Point a port of call. That's right.

245
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,160
Speaker 2: It's not as common, but you know it's it's usually

246
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 2: v a c or river or wherever you get through.

247
00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 3: Geneva is landlocked, right, and they have the world's largest

248
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 3: art collection because of their freeport. Yes, not a museum

249
00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,560
Speaker 3: you can go to. This is big stuff.

250
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,480
Speaker 2: Do you mind if we just really quickly to talk

251
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,040
Speaker 2: about the raw material angle, because I think it's just

252
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,880
Speaker 2: important for me to understand what I was thinking about this.

253
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 2: Countries want to you have a ton offact manufacturing in

254
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,480
Speaker 2: their country if they're like expensive goods, especially if the

255
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,080
Speaker 2: country is going to make a lot of money when

256
00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,920
Speaker 2: those goods are sold, If that company altogether is going

257
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:15,800
Speaker 2: to be generating income tax in some way or state tax,

258
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:16,960
Speaker 2: country tax whatever.

259
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 3: It is just economic activity.

260
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:23,160
Speaker 2: They want these big companies they're manufacturing things, to apply

261
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,400
Speaker 2: their goods essentially and their sales to the GDP of

262
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,200
Speaker 2: that country. So what they'll do is encourage a big

263
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,640
Speaker 2: company to come in and manufacture their stuff, let's say

264
00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,680
Speaker 2: in the United States, and use this freeport to bring

265
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,200
Speaker 2: in the raw materials so they don't have to pay

266
00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,280
Speaker 2: all those tariffs and taxes on bringing in let's say,

267
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 2: steal from China or something like that, and then they

268
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:49,440
Speaker 2: manufacture their goods and then they send them out and

269
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,920
Speaker 2: then they pay their taxes bypassing trade wars all together. Yeah,

270
00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,280
Speaker 2: but so it's weird, like you'd think a country like

271
00:15:57,280 --> 00:16:00,400
Speaker 2: the US would want to have that company any pay

272
00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,760
Speaker 2: taxes twice or three times or seven times, or have

273
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,280
Speaker 2: her many, you know times they can get away with it.

274
00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,960
Speaker 2: But ultimately it's like it means that every country pretty

275
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,240
Speaker 2: much that wants these big money players to be in

276
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,960
Speaker 2: their country, to have these freeports and have that accessibility

277
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,480
Speaker 2: for companies to go under the radar like that.

278
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:23,480
Speaker 4: Well, but guys, can I start a freeport? How does

279
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,560
Speaker 4: one start? How does one initiate the paperwork to begin

280
00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 4: establishing a freeport.

281
00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:32,440
Speaker 3: I would say, first you find a vulnerable post EU

282
00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 3: archipelago and then promise their politicians.

283
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:42,680
Speaker 2: Really any country that's in turmoil, hop in and make

284
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,320
Speaker 2: some friends, and then have a bunch of capital.

285
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 3: Start an abusive financial relationship, which is you know, capitalism.

286
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,320
Speaker 3: But you're right, we'll get to this too. There are

287
00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,400
Speaker 3: there are ways to do it, and a lot of

288
00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,240
Speaker 3: it goes back to power. Accreting power right, Fire makes friends,

289
00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 3: wealth likes wealth, and that's a feedback loop that can

290
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,960
Speaker 3: be leveraged. Has been and like, look, there are legitimate uses.

291
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,439
Speaker 3: We're being very careful to say that there are legitimate

292
00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,439
Speaker 3: uses for these global hideaways, and they're often sold to

293
00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:22,000
Speaker 3: the public under what we could call optimistic terms. The

294
00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,480
Speaker 3: idea that the idea is, you know, you're in Liverpool

295
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:31,480
Speaker 3: or Kenshasha, insert any country or city or municipality here,

296
00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,640
Speaker 3: and the promise that the politicians and the businesses make

297
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,879
Speaker 3: is this is a source of job creation. Things have

298
00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 3: been kind of tough, will get you jobs in this

299
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:45,159
Speaker 3: neighborhood will also have economic prosperity because all these businesses

300
00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,280
Speaker 3: are going to be coming in here and they'll be

301
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,800
Speaker 3: free from that pesky regulation and taxation and being free

302
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:57,600
Speaker 3: from taxes and regulations. Well, that's the foundation for prosperity. Right.

303
00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,159
Speaker 3: This might be good for the rich, but it's all

304
00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:05,200
Speaker 3: so good for everyone, trickle down type stuff, right, Ors

305
00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:05,760
Speaker 3: and Sparrow.

306
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, for every freeport, you're looking at thousands, if

307
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,040
Speaker 2: not tens of thousands of jobs, like actual jobs, for

308
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,520
Speaker 2: as long as the freeport exists. And that's another weird

309
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,440
Speaker 2: thing about them. They tend to pop up and then

310
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:24,040
Speaker 2: go away after a couple of decades or even years depending.

311
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and how much of that is calculated like a

312
00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:28,679
Speaker 3: pop up restaurant, and how much of that is the

313
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,480
Speaker 3: pendulum of public awareness swinging back?

314
00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,920
Speaker 4: There is a certain in the knowness about it, isn't there?

315
00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,040
Speaker 4: Like how I like to even know where they are,

316
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,040
Speaker 4: what they are, and how to exploit them. You've got

317
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,879
Speaker 4: to be in a certain echelon of humanity to, you know,

318
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,040
Speaker 4: to tick all those boxes.

319
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:48,159
Speaker 3: Right, that's absolutely correct. Sure it might be good for

320
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,160
Speaker 3: the rich, but it's also good for everyone. What if

321
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,240
Speaker 3: we told you there was more to the story. We're

322
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,960
Speaker 3: not going to This is the end of the episode,

323
00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:04,720
Speaker 3: spoil kitty. Yeah, they will take a break for some mats.

324
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy, all right. You let people

325
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,919
Speaker 3: sanan once. They're gonna shenan again. As the Internet loves

326
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:13,359
Speaker 3: to say.

327
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,239
Speaker 4: Use is that an Internet thing? I've never encountered that.

328
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 4: That's cute.

329
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 3: Like, there are quite a few very concerning opportunities for corruption, conspiracy,

330
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 3: and crime in the world of freeports. First, the crime,

331
00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 3: there's a ton of it. There's so much of it,

332
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 3: it's everywhere. Thing Like, ah, I hate to say it,

333
00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:40,080
Speaker 3: I would pause it that you can at any single

334
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,879
Speaker 3: freeport in the world right now, you can find something

335
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,720
Speaker 3: sketchy going on, especially when we look at financial crimes

336
00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:50,320
Speaker 3: because now they've replaced banks.

337
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, people love the shenan again and again and again

338
00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,920
Speaker 4: when it comes to financial crimes. Because as international banking

339
00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,359
Speaker 4: started to find itself or the thumb of new regulations,

340
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 4: because of governmental crackdowns worldwide on tax fraud, freeport's kind

341
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 4: of slipped into that role of like offshore bank accounts, right.

342
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:19,240
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Yeah, tax avoidance, tax shelters, tax havens,

343
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 3: all the hits, all the good ones. Tax avoidance is

344
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 3: a legal thing. Tax avoidance is just the sort of

345
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 3: the group term for the toolbox of stuff that theoretically

346
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,919
Speaker 3: anybody can do to minimize the amount they have to

347
00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,120
Speaker 3: give to the tax man. We've all felt this sting.

348
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,360
Speaker 3: It feels great to It feels fantastic when you're done

349
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 3: with a return and you think, ah, I'm not getting

350
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 3: burned that bad.

351
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,480
Speaker 4: Well, avoidance, though, is not inherently the same as fraud

352
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 4: or necessarily illegal, right. You can you can employ certain loopholes,

353
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 4: as we know, very very wealthy people tend to do

354
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 4: and be completely on the right side of the law

355
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 4: by avoiding certain tax taxes, you know, income text.

356
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. Look into IKEA's nonprofit.

357
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:05,960
Speaker 4: And really quickly, guys, I meane, I know this is

358
00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 4: an episode for another day, but it just got me

359
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 4: thinking because you know me, I'm always complaining about not

360
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,280
Speaker 4: knowing where my tax money goes. But did you guys

361
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,040
Speaker 4: see Trump's kind of big move to maybe like get

362
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 4: some people on his side talking about eliminating the income

363
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:24,719
Speaker 4: tax and and and replacing it with tariffs, which you know,

364
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,520
Speaker 4: based on the quick and dirty analysis I read, would

365
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,800
Speaker 4: fundamentally shift the way kind of business is done. A

366
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 4: lot of these types of situations would be included, but

367
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,000
Speaker 4: also just in general, it could really be a you know,

368
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:41,000
Speaker 4: finger in the eye of countries like China and stuff

369
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 4: like that. But it obviously it seems real appealing to

370
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 4: folks who are like God, income text sucks, you know.

371
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say this is an apolitical point that

372
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 3: is objectively a very stupid idea. It just it's not

373
00:21:54,840 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 3: supported by the lack of enforcement we see in teriff Regimesently.

374
00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:08,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, every company would leave, every nobody would do business

375
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,720
Speaker 2: in the United States anymore because it's that easy to

376
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 2: just shift it and say, all right, cool.

377
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,080
Speaker 4: But it sure is a night shiny political object to

378
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 4: dangle out there for folks that maybe don't do their homework, right.

379
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,600
Speaker 4: I appreciate you guys, you know, offering that perspective, but

380
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 4: it does seem like the kind of ditch effort, you know,

381
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 4: policy point that maybe would get some people's eyes lightened up.

382
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 4: You know, no more taxes, why that sounds awesome.

383
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 2: The best that could happen is you could reduce the

384
00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:38,879
Speaker 2: percentages of income tax But there's almost no way. I

385
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 2: don't whatever, I'm not a politician, but I don't see

386
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:44,919
Speaker 2: how you could ever do that considering the spending that

387
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,720
Speaker 2: the United States is like the ramp that it's currently

388
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 2: on and has been on. How do you reduce that?

389
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 3: Also, the president has no power over that nature of

390
00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 3: legislation speeches. Yeah, but objectively, that's that sideline mascotrey, which

391
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,959
Speaker 3: I don't know is a word, but oh why don't

392
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,400
Speaker 3: know it's a word, but yeah, it's American English. Also,

393
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 3: shout out to Ireland. They've been making headway as a

394
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 3: tax haven, so this would be very helpful to Ireland.

395
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 3: Maybe we should get our citizenship. But anyway, you're right, Uh,

396
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 3: there are a lot of up to statements. And again,

397
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 3: just to be very clear, when we're saying something is

398
00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: objectively a stupid idea, we would say the same thing

399
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 3: if any presidential candidate propose something that Wack could do.

400
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 4: Oh one hundred percent.

401
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 3: No.

402
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 4: I appreciate the very you know, uh, non partisan perspective,

403
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 4: because that's all I was asking for, and I think

404
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 4: that's just it's a fascinating thing to trot out there,

405
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 4: especially given what you just said.

406
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: What if we turn the whole of the United States

407
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 3: into non American free zones, but just one big freeport,

408
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,120
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Roll the dice. Let's see

409
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: how it goes. It's look, everybody tries not to overpay

410
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 3: in taxes. The US tax system as a whole bag

411
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 3: of badgers. But we know that tax avoidance techniques become

412
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 3: more sophisticated the more money you have to begin with.

413
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 3: So I would argue that for the upper echelon of

414
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,119
Speaker 3: the wealthy, these tax avoidance techniques are on the level

415
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 3: of sorcery. This is like financial wizardry. There are accountants

416
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 3: who make more money than you will ever see in

417
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 3: your life, and they work just a couple couple months

418
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 3: a year.

419
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Well in art not art dealers, art liaisons.

420
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 2: There maybe goods liaisons, people who sell goods via the

421
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: freeport who pretend to be the owners of objects and property.

422
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: Sub tenants, yeah, brokers.

423
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's the whole thing when you get into

424
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: But it's part of this, I mean, it's it's part

425
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: of the financial crimes. It's you don't in most freeports.

426
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: You don't have to have an end like who is

427
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 2: the human being that actually owns this property?

428
00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 3: Right? And who is the human being at the other

429
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 3: side of the table.

430
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got you got some people who are talking

431
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 2: about selling some art for a ninety five million or

432
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: one hundred and eleven million dollars, and then it does

433
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 2: change hands and it all happens there, but nobody knows

434
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 2: who sold what to who.

435
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 3: I'm not the CEO of Discordia LLC. I am the

436
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 3: liaison between IGU and Discordia, and then I can forward

437
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 3: the email if you would like customs. But that's going

438
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,240
Speaker 3: to take eight months minimum, at by which point I

439
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 3: may have another job with a totally different shell company,

440
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 3: but I will still be here. Ye.

441
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 2: And it's often for a broker like that to make

442
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 2: two percent on a sale, two to five percent on

443
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 2: a sale, which means, let's say it's one hundred million

444
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,920
Speaker 2: dollar sale, My god, you're a millionaire. You just made

445
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,320
Speaker 2: one sale exactly, and.

446
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:03,639
Speaker 3: Then you take the rest of the year off this job.

447
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 3: Bro These freeports play a huge role in this financial

448
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,199
Speaker 3: sorcery because they are a genuine way of rigging the market,

449
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 3: and the it can become so surrealed and absurd. We

450
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 3: talked about this in our previous episode, The Fine Art

451
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: of Money Laundering. You can have an artifact change hands

452
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 3: multiple times, and the price can increase with each iteration,

453
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 3: so it gets more and more expensive, more and more

454
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 3: money in play there on the craps table, but that

455
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 3: actual artifact may never physically leave the single storage room.

456
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 3: It's almost like speculation when people are trading in oil

457
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 3: futures and the oil was just left in the same

458
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 3: ship off the coast.

459
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's so weird because often the contracts, the

460
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: initial contracts for goods that go into a freeport are

461
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: for several months and at maximum they're like six months

462
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 2: or something like that. But then they get what it

463
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: elongated and negotiated up to several years. And then sometimes

464
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 2: depending on the freeport, it can be a permanent storage

465
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,679
Speaker 2: facility basically, or a storage facility within the freeport system

466
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 2: that is another private service, right.

467
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: And they're still finding stuff stolen by the Nazis in

468
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 3: European freeports. That's how long it can stay in that

469
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 3: parking well.

470
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 2: Eighteen eighty eight is the Geneva freeport, right, right, so

471
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: if you I mean, that's the biggest one around. And

472
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,479
Speaker 2: what was the there's something crazy some statistic that was

473
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:40,480
Speaker 2: in a twenty sixteen New York Times article, the louver.

474
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 2: The louver is that how you.

475
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: Say it.

476
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 2: Had like has at the time twenty sixteen had around

477
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,360
Speaker 2: three hundred and fifty thousand pieces of art in it, right,

478
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,359
Speaker 2: But then this one freeport in Geneva had one point

479
00:27:54,400 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 2: two million pieces of like serious art stored in it.

480
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 4: Is it just frozen in time?

481
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 1: Though?

482
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: How does appreciation and depreciation work in that case?

483
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: Well, I'm glad you asked in our earlier episode on

484
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: the fine art of money laundry. It's it's dystopian level

485
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 3: free market stuff. The piece of art or the artifact whatever,

486
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 3: whatever it's like. The materials used to make it don't matter.

487
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,640
Speaker 3: It's how much a willing seller is ready to sell

488
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 3: it for and how much a willing buyer is ready

489
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: to pay for it. So if you have connections with

490
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 3: a terrorist organization and you need to move say thirty

491
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: million dollars, then just buy any old piece of fine art.

492
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: Don't even move it from the freeport. Now, congratulations, you

493
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 3: own a Matista or a Goya or whatever that you

494
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 3: never have to see.

495
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: It's so weird. There's a great example of this exact

496
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: kind of thing. There was in Town and Country Boys,

497
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 2: a little Town and Country article.

498
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 4: You guys, y, I've long had.

499
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 3: A subscribe Loki have some great reporting.

500
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely there's some reporting from twenty fifteen about this

501
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: guy named Eves Bouvier who was one of these art

502
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: go between bovie of course, Eves, yes, And he was

503
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 2: working for this Russian oligarch I don't even know how

504
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 2: to say his name, Dmitri Rebolevbolov. And he was working

505
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: for this guy as an art go between, and the

506
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: oligarch found out that he was overpaying for all of

507
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 2: his art, just over a dinner conversation. So just to

508
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 2: give you some numbers here, there's this one piece of

509
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 2: art Madoligani, I don't know what that is, but some

510
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 2: masterpiece was sold to this Russian oligarch for one hundred

511
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 2: and eighteen million dollars and then he found out that

512
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 2: it was actually only worth ninety three million dollars and

513
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 2: that's what it was sold for. But this go between

514
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 2: dude was charging like twenty five million dollars a pop

515
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: for the transactions.

516
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 4: Has one thing rich people, Hey, it is overpaying for stuff,

517
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 4: but we're paying for stuff.

518
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly. But that the whole point of that

519
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: is that the masterpiece they were charged twenty five million

520
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: dollars more for it. So when it was spoken about

521
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: or when it was written about. It was sold for

522
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighteen million. It was actually, yeah, exactly.

523
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 2: So it's kind of that thing, that speculation thing that

524
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 2: Ben was talking about with oil prices, that it just

525
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 2: kind of just goes up and up and up every

526
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: time somebody pays a little more for it.

527
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 4: And is that a feature not a bug? Perhaps in

528
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 4: this type of situation.

529
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 3: It very much is, because it's setting precedents. It's jurisprudence,

530
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 3: there's another word to say it. And this leads us

531
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 3: to the next big problem, which is money laundry. The

532
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 3: world is full of people and organizations that have made

533
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 3: a ton of cash doing a lot of dirt. We're

534
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 3: talking human trafficking, evil drug stuff, slavery, terrorism. In some cases,

535
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: rogue nations get slapped with what we call sanctions, which

536
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 3: prevent them from engaging in international in the international political

537
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 3: and economic order. So how do we make the money move.

538
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: We do a bigger version of a breaking bag car

539
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 3: wash scheme. First, you set up a shell company, You

540
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 3: make a series of shell companies, and preferably you span

541
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 3: these out across international borders, because the rules for corporate

542
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 3: governance change country to country, right, So you spread your

543
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: breadcrumbs wide and this helps throw off the stench of

544
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: your dirty money. Then you move illegal funds through the

545
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 3: international system to kind of slowly wash it. We call

546
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 3: this trade based money laundry. And the weird thing is

547
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 3: this sounds so small time for international spector level evil organizations.

548
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,280
Speaker 3: But the weird thing is often they're selling cigarettes, add

549
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 3: alcohol and like knockoff handbags in weight through these freeports

550
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 3: and then they you do this legal parkore where you

551
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 3: cook the invoices right or you over under deliver the

552
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,479
Speaker 3: stuff you agree you're going to deliver, and then no

553
00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 3: one on either side has a problem with it because

554
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: the two the buyer and the seller, once you get

555
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,640
Speaker 3: through the proxy companies, they're the same group. So they're

556
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 3: just moving their money.

557
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can convert money into whatever you want, right Like,

558
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 4: it doesn't have to be actual luxury goods. It could

559
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 4: be just like POGs, you know, or whatever it might be.

560
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:41,719
Speaker 4: And it's just a way of like temporarily converting it

561
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 4: to something and then you know, converting it back yep.

562
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 2: And back in the day, a lot of this stuff

563
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: ended up funneling through Panama and Swiss banks, and we've

564
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 2: done episodes on that stuff too, where Panama papers it

565
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: all kind of functions together.

566
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 3: It's a big launch. Is the problem or the advantage,

567
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 3: you know, depending on who you are and where you're at.

568
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 3: We also we see that there's a lot of people

569
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 3: or there are a lot of institutions that are trying

570
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 3: to raise awareness about this. There is a steep divide,

571
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:21,720
Speaker 3: a precipitous chasm between the people who are against reports

572
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 3: and the people who are a forum, and I want

573
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 3: to shout out this group called Comply Advantage, who monitors

574
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 3: this and provides different analytical and security services. They had

575
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 3: a great example of what we just outlined. They said,

576
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 3: all right, if you're reading this and you're an authority

577
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 3: trying to keep your freeports clean, which is good luck, right,

578
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 3: it's sisyphia and it's sort of ocean versus a bucket

579
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 3: of water, but you know, good hustle guys. Right.

580
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,800
Speaker 4: So just in by way of an example here, the

581
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 4: first beneficiary of a multimillion dollar credit line, I guess,

582
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 4: or a letter of credit is to supply medical goods

583
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 4: for another country's bureau of health. But the second and

584
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 4: you know, final beneficiary of the credit issues invoices that

585
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 4: don't match the first ones. This is I don't know.

586
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 4: It seems very much like a classic mafia type scam,

587
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 4: almost like a no show job kind of thing on

588
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 4: the Sopranos, right, or like you're billing extra for like

589
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:25,240
Speaker 4: goods and services that actually don't cost what you're billing

590
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 4: it for, and you're disguising things that way, right, And

591
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 4: these kind of mismatched invoices, So the first beneficiary is

592
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,839
Speaker 4: revealed to have substituted invoices that were marked up by

593
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 4: three hundred percent exactly like like I was just describing,

594
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:41,720
Speaker 4: and additionally revealed to a connection with the firm acting

595
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 4: as its agent to the Bureau of Health, so the

596
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 4: go between is in on the deal and facilitating it

597
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 4: to benefit the first party.

598
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 2: There's some stuff in real estate that happens that's very

599
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 2: similar to.

600
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:59,920
Speaker 3: That continues today. And either any of these cases where

601
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 3: outlining if you don't look closely enough, and freeports heavily

602
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 3: incentivized not looking closely enough if you don't, this looks

603
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 3: like everyday international business. Worse, it looks like the boring stuff,

604
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Now, we're just selling loose

605
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: cigarettes and discman or something but the issue is smart

606
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 3: criminals like boring stuff. You know, one of the best

607
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 3: neighbors you might encounter in Atlanta, or at least personal

608
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 3: experience here was the guy who owned the local drug operation,

609
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,800
Speaker 3: made sure Halloween was safe for the kids. Was basically

610
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 3: an unofficial hoa intervened in crime and petty theft, repeatedly

611
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 3: sent over what I will call drug enthusiasts to mow

612
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 3: my lawn for free, just anything to keep scrutiny of

613
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 3: law enforcement away.

614
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 4: That's right. That's why I like people can kind of

615
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 4: seem get off the mark significantly when they act like

616
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 4: you know, all drug dealers are, all illegal enterprises are

617
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 4: just chaos in the streets, blasting way causing you know,

618
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 4: the quality of life for those around it just decline.

619
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,640
Speaker 4: I mean, of course, there are examples of things like

620
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 4: that with Cartel's, of course, but it's not the run

621
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 4: of It's not the smart way to run an illegal operation.

622
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 4: It just isn't. You know, the best way to do

623
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 4: it is to actually watch people's backs and you know,

624
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 4: do like Pablo Escobar did, where he made sure that

625
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 4: the people who were surrounding him where he lived loved

626
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,920
Speaker 4: him and and and protected him and treated him like,

627
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,840
Speaker 4: you know, like with the respect you would usually reserve

628
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 4: for a.

629
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 3: Monarch or a political figure. Real G's move in silence

630
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 3: like Lasagna. That's from Little Wayne. I would also say,

631
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 3: I think Gus Fring legitimately cared about the chicken.

632
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 4: Is design of the silence because it has a silent

633
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:48,359
Speaker 4: g Yeah, real silence, just making sure, Uh I get it,

634
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 4: geez ah, sorry, got it. Clever, that's very clever.

635
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 3: I think you probably came down between real g's moving

636
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 3: silence like Balgoney or real G's moving silence like Lasagna,

637
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 3: and he went with the more mop stir of the two.

638
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 4: Absolutely. It's also you know, I would argue, taste here.

639
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 4: You're a big blogoney person but never been my thing.

640
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 3: Oh now we're going to get an email about bologney lasagna.

641
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 4: No, thank you. I'm well, but I don't know or

642
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 4: you know, there is a fancy boloney is more or

643
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 4: less like that Mortadell kind of the real fancy cold

644
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 4: cut of that is essentially just fancy blogoney. So you know,

645
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,359
Speaker 4: I guess it's all it's all in in what you're

646
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 4: looking for.

647
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 3: And then there's another thing, not necessarily even financial, crime,

648
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,839
Speaker 3: but what we foreshadowed earlier, it belongs in a museum.

649
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,879
Speaker 3: People are looting artifacts and putting them in freeports and

650
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,720
Speaker 3: kind of waiting and cooking till they get the best

651
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:51,920
Speaker 3: socio political environment to move these to private collectors like

652
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: things you cannot put a price on, or perhaps to

653
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 3: get a good deal with a museum they're stealing. It

654
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: occurs off in war, during like in times of turmoil,

655
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 3: in ancient troubled areas of the world like the Middle

656
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,080
Speaker 3: East is huge for this.

657
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 4: So in December of twenty sixteen, authorities in Switzerland seized

658
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 4: cultural relics that had been looted from several Middle Eastern countries,

659
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 4: including the Yemen, Libya, and Syria, that had up until

660
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 4: that point been stored in Geneva's freeport, which is home

661
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,919
Speaker 4: currently to billions of Swiss francs worth of fine art

662
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,720
Speaker 4: and other you know treasures, including the world's biggest, most

663
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 4: valuable wine cellar.

664
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 3: That is true.

665
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, can you store a wine cellar? That seems like

666
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 4: I guess it's just all packed up. Maybe it's just

667
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 4: climate controlled, baby. Yeah, that's all you need.

668
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 3: You got to be the cellar, you know what I mean?

669
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 3: So the the European Union did this investigation in this

670
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 3: you absolute correct. It was a huge crackdown and they

671
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:05,760
Speaker 3: found that three of these pieces at least were from

672
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 3: a UNESCO World Heritage site that the Islamic State had

673
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: been destroying, because we may recall not too long ago,

674
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:20,360
Speaker 3: the Islamic State or various factions thereof were super centered

675
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 3: on destroying you know, things that like if you're human

676
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 3: listening now, they were destroying your stuff, like the marks

677
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 3: of your ancestors, the story of human civilization, erasing all

678
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 3: of it. And looters, you know, despite their maybe fundamentalist leanings,

679
00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 3: they like to make a little bit of coin, you know,

680
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 3: a couple of euros, so they hid this stuff shipped

681
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,759
Speaker 3: out via cutter to Switzerland and the Middle East is

682
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 3: also big on freeports. This launched a new crackdown and

683
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 3: the Swiss government when they reacted, they went pretty hard.

684
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 3: They're trying to remove all the typical, advantageous or attractive

685
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:07,920
Speaker 3: parts of a freeport. Like you were saying earlier, the

686
00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: idea is now, if you are what's called a tenant

687
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 3: there like two hundred something tenants in Geneva for their freeport,

688
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 3: you have to have an independent firm of specialist, a

689
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 3: third party firm investigate the providence of your relics. And

690
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 3: then you have to tell them who is really making

691
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 3: money and who is really buying it. And then the

692
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 3: craziest part, the most like Christopher Nolan part of it,

693
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 3: they have to submit to a quote biometric system that'll

694
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:43,719
Speaker 3: track your individual movements through the freeport. So you can't

695
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 3: because what used to happen is people would say, hey,

696
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,839
Speaker 3: I work for Company A, and they might actually work

697
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 3: for Company A, but when they get past you know,

698
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 3: the bar wire and everything, they go to their other job,

699
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 3: company B, and that's where they help the you know,

700
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 3: drug cartels make money. Yeah.

701
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 2: But it's so weird to me though, because that's one

702
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: freeport in Geneva because they had issues and they kind

703
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 2: of had to deal with it. There are thousands of

704
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,359
Speaker 2: other freeports out there that don't have this. You don't

705
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: need an ultimate beneficial owner or UBO, and nobody ever

706
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 2: gots to know about you, whoever you are. I mean,

707
00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 2: thank goodness that I mean, weirdly enough, thank goodness this

708
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: terrible thing happened, because at least it's going to bring

709
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 2: some transparency to one freeport.

710
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:38,799
Speaker 3: Keep it on the low anyway. Yeah, So you're absolutely right.

711
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 3: It's bigger than hip hop, right, it's deeper than wrap.

712
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 3: This is a systemic issue. It's a conspiracy that is

713
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 3: working for a lot of powerful people. And it doesn't

714
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 3: stop just at the you know, the billionaire doesn't want

715
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 3: to pay taxes. It doesn't stop at the evil character

716
00:41:56,719 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: in an Indiana Jones film. Each of these freeports has

717
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: a great deal of autonomy, and the rules in one

718
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 3: place are not the same as the rules in the next.

719
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 3: And it touches on war, which we'll talk about. What

720
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 3: is it good for freeports after word from our sponsors, and.

721
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 4: We've returned war. It never changes and it's not good

722
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 4: for anything at all, absolutely nothing, right, huh. Now to

723
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 4: your point bent before the break, it is very very

724
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,320
Speaker 4: good for freeports.

725
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:40,399
Speaker 2: And weapons manufacturers and people who like to extract resources

726
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: for profit.

727
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:46,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. Switzerland. Again, it sounds like we may be picking

728
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 3: on this country, but they were, you know, they're very

729
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 3: big in the world of banking secrecy, or were for

730
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 3: a long time. Neutrality also very big in the world

731
00:42:58,400 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 3: of freeports.

732
00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 2: So I thought you're going to say watches.

733
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 3: And watches, watches, chocolate, overpriced sandwiches, I said it going back.

734
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 3: But so the war in Ukraine and the Russian invasion

735
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 3: of Ukraine, which was a slow boil, I think we

736
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 3: can all agree and is currently continuing now. We don't

737
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 3: have to get in the weeds on it, but we

738
00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 3: know that this part of the fallout of this as

739
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: it resulted in Switzerland having to face scrutiny over handling

740
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 3: Russian assets. As of twenty twenty two, the Swiss government

741
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,840
Speaker 3: went back on its historical neutrality laws. They froze six

742
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 3: points three three billion US dollars worth of Russian assets.

743
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 3: They confiscated eleven properties, They took sanctions against Russian individuals

744
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 3: and various shell companies and proxy entities to follow the

745
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 3: European Union. And to be clear, Zerland is not part

746
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 3: of the European Union. They're just sort of they're buddies

747
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: the way that sometimes other people rap with the Wu

748
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:09,440
Speaker 3: Tang shannged area.

749
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

750
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 3: So the issue is that even if you are the

751
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,280
Speaker 3: government of Switzerland, you know, you're like Swiss passport control

752
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 3: your Swiss customs, you are still going to have problems

753
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 3: getting into these freeports. That's nuts. That's like being the

754
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 3: president of the United States and they say you can't

755
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 3: go into this building.

756
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 4: Do you know who I am? I'm the President of

757
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 4: the United States.

758
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 3: A pictoring security going a president if we let one

759
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 3: of you, and yeah, there's going to be like forty

760
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,080
Speaker 3: more immediately, misdent.

761
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 2: This is for skullin bones members only, exactly.

762
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 3: And this this was a historically big move for Switzerland.

763
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,759
Speaker 3: One of the things that might on strange is the

764
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 3: idea that they're taking action against specific Russian individuals. That

765
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 3: may sound prejudiced until we realize the post communist Russia

766
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 3: is a kleptocracy. The very well to do oligarchs of

767
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 3: Russia and their oligarchs all over the world. The US

768
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 3: has several The very well to do oligarchs are representatives

769
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,959
Speaker 3: of Russian state power. Like they don't wake up every

770
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 3: day and say I wonder what I would like to

771
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 3: do with gasprop They take their orders. They are an

772
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 3: unofficial government. So targeting those individuals is targeting the Russian state.

773
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 3: And then we have probably this is a very weird

774
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 3: thing to say, but the hottest debate or the hottest

775
00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:53,000
Speaker 3: conspiracy juggling about freeports now, at least in the West,

776
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 3: concerns the United Kingdom.

777
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, because of Brexit fallout right, because it was

778
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 4: sort of a debacle, didn't work out the way anyone

779
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 4: thought or hoped or expect it, or maybe exactly as

780
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 4: it was intended. So the idea of freeports, I guess

781
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,880
Speaker 4: that it makes them more important in order to claw

782
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,200
Speaker 4: back some of that capital that was lost in instituting

783
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 4: this catastrophic plan. I mean, I don't know. Again, it's

784
00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 4: up in the air as to whether you think there's

785
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 4: anybody Ben or Matt I'd love to hear that benefited

786
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 4: from Brexit, or if it was just in general to

787
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 4: sort of like a dumb nationalistic move that shot everybody.

788
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 3: In the foot.

789
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,879
Speaker 2: I don't have enough information to give you a clear

790
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: answer there. I do know that there's some weird freeport

791
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 2: stuff going on in the UK. There was a there's

792
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 2: a brand new one. There was news about it, gosh

793
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 2: from this month June, like a couple of days ago.

794
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 2: What is it called the Fourth Green Freeport. It's officially

795
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: open for business as of June twelfth.

796
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 3: They reduced their environmental footprint.

797
00:46:58,920 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

798
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 2: Oh, and they're going to do it more with this

799
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: fourth Green Freeport, apparently, because it's going to be focused

800
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 2: on all kinds of things like hydrogen, offshore wind, sustainable fuels,

801
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:10,319
Speaker 2: modular manufacturing.

802
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,279
Speaker 3: Matt waved his hands when he said modular manufacturing.

803
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 2: But it's that thing we're talking about where you you

804
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: are encouraging outsiders essentially to come into this freeport so

805
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,920
Speaker 2: that their private company can bring stuff in, manufacture it,

806
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,879
Speaker 2: work on things there, and then the UK will make

807
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 2: money afterwards, Scotland will make money.

808
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 4: Doesn't It just go to show how little the actual

809
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 4: consumer is regarded in all of these things, all of

810
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 4: these goings on. When you see what we get the

811
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 4: occasional tax free holiday, you know, or whatever, like the

812
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,800
Speaker 4: ability to write something off on our taxes, et cetera,

813
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 4: when you have these just massive tax loopholes that are

814
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 4: designed not to benefit us but to benefit the folks

815
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,040
Speaker 4: that you know, are charging us for all of the

816
00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,759
Speaker 4: goods and services and things that we you know, rely on.

817
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 4: Door enjoy.

818
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: I'm drinking out of a paper straw like a sucker.

819
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: The characterized Yeah, right exactly, you know what I mean?

820
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 4: Though, It's like what we get the the the amount

821
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 4: of quote unquote tax grace that we get as individual

822
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:20,040
Speaker 4: humans is just a joke compared to the things that

823
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 4: are available and accessible to the the larger you know,

824
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 4: profiteers in these in.

825
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:29,799
Speaker 3: These situation last Monday murders is right, well exactly the

826
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:30,439
Speaker 3: magic part.

827
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, because it has nothing to do with us overall.

828
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: It has to do with the GDP of the country

829
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 2: or the gross value added amount or whatever the other

830
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 2: economic numbers are that they toally gross, that's.

831
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 3: For sure GNP shout out to Bhutan for gross domestic happiness. Yes,

832
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 3: it's still still a weird one.

833
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:54,240
Speaker 2: But just this example, this fourth Green Freeport in Scotland

834
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 2: that just opened up. Right, everybody in Scotland who is

835
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:01,279
Speaker 2: of a certain economic level or things about you know,

836
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:05,920
Speaker 2: the country of the United Kingdom and specific areas of

837
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,839
Speaker 2: Scotland and tax dollars and all that stuff, they're there.

838
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 2: They believe that's going to bring in around seven hundred

839
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: million dollars in private and public investment every year for

840
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 2: the next ten years. So like seven billion dollars that

841
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 2: they're gonna make.

842
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 3: And also a great deal of the public in Scotland

843
00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:30,360
Speaker 3: was not aware of it. If you read like the

844
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,759
Speaker 3: Scotsman dot com and other articles. You'll see that the

845
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:39,400
Speaker 3: public didn't know what was going on. Yeah for a

846
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:41,520
Speaker 3: great deal. And you know, is that a bug? Is

847
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 3: that by a design Scotland is its own place. It's

848
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,840
Speaker 3: got a lot of other stuff going on. It's easy

849
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 3: to miss the boring news. Well.

850
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the and they'll the politicians will talk to

851
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 2: the public about it. The economic specialists will talk to

852
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 2: the public about it and say things like it could

853
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: generate up to thirty eight thousand well paid, quote highly

854
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,799
Speaker 2: skilled green jobs, with nearly nineteen thousand of these being

855
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 2: direct gross jobs linked to target sectors and tax sites.

856
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: But what they're not saying is if this is private investment,

857
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 2: a lot of it's private investment, and it's a company

858
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,080
Speaker 2: coming in to do business through this freeport, are those

859
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 2: jobs coming in from other countries where human beings are

860
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 2: going to work, have work visas from other countries? Or

861
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 2: are they hiring people directly there?

862
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 3: That goes to the question we'll get to at the end,

863
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 3: which is do these actually work? Well?

864
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I hate to keep harping on this, but

865
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 4: like things like stimulus, you know, they have measurable results.

866
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 4: And I mean it's an economic move that some would argue, Yeah,

867
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:50,640
Speaker 4: stimulus does increase you know, spending, and it's injection back

868
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:53,720
Speaker 4: into the economy, and it's ultimately good for the big picture.

869
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 4: But the there's so few things that are like that

870
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 4: that actually benefit the consumer or directly. And if you

871
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,440
Speaker 4: and with the number, the sheer number of these types

872
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 4: of tax havens and loopholes and freeport situations that are

873
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,840
Speaker 4: out there, I sure would hope that it would benefit

874
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 4: the big picture in some way.

875
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 3: Right get asked to well, it's the old advertising thing.

876
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 3: Are we selling a product or are we selling a story?

877
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 3: And I would add I would argue that to the

878
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 3: vast majority of the public, freeports, the public approval of

879
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 3: them is based upon selling a story, which is not

880
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:33,920
Speaker 3: We'll get to the idea of whether they work, but

881
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 3: for the background, freeports are not, by any means a

882
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 3: new idea. In the United Kingdom, in the age of

883
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:47,040
Speaker 3: Thatcherite austerity, there were multiple freeports set up in the eighties,

884
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:51,879
Speaker 3: including Liverpool and Southampton. They were phased out later in

885
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 3: twenty twelve, but the UK government post brexit said we

886
00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 3: need to bring these back, and again that chasm of

887
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,919
Speaker 3: vibe we're talking about here. The people who are pro

888
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 3: freeport tend to be private businesses, high net individuals, and

889
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 3: the politicians who call those entities masters. The people against

890
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,799
Speaker 3: it tend to be a well informed public, and all

891
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 3: the nerds who were paid to objectively look at it.

892
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 3: The Office of Budgetary Responsibility over there in the UK said, look,

893
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 3: the tax breaks were given these folks, and these freeports

894
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 3: are proposing they're going to cost US fifty million pounds

895
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 3: sterling a year. They said that in twenty twenty one

896
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 3: quick ballpark math, that's about sixty three point four million

897
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:42,120
Speaker 3: US dollars per year. They also said, we're not really

898
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:48,200
Speaker 3: making anything new. We're taking economic activity from other places.

899
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 3: We're taking jobs from other places. We're just like cloud seeding.

900
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: We're not making rain, we're moving moisture. And it may

901
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 3: be to the detriment of other people in this large

902
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,439
Speaker 3: interconnecttion did system and then also boom, just one last

903
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 3: mic drop. They don't actually work. Freeports don't work the

904
00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 3: way that they are sold to the public as working well.

905
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:10,759
Speaker 4: And then just to double back on something that I

906
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 4: believe Matt or Ben you pointed out earlier, these do

907
00:53:15,160 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 4: create jobs. Right, Well, if there's a silver lining at all,

908
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:20,919
Speaker 4: maybe that's one of them.

909
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 2: I would say they create jobs to run the freeport

910
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:28,080
Speaker 2: the way an airport creates jobs to run parts of

911
00:53:28,080 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 2: the airport.

912
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 3: Right.

913
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 2: That's a thing. You got to have people to make

914
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: it happen. But when it comes to creating jobs for

915
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 2: specific companies that are coming in, like the private investment

916
00:53:39,560 --> 00:53:44,479
Speaker 2: they're talking about, it's a maybe situation at best.

917
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and old jobs are all jobs are worthwhile endeavors. Right,

918
00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 3: It's tough to get one, it's tough to keep one.

919
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 3: But there is a difference between high paying jobs and

920
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 3: low wage jobs. And the argument here is that a

921
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,840
Speaker 3: lot of the free ports, due to the inherent nature

922
00:54:03,200 --> 00:54:07,080
Speaker 3: of the way they're structured, they will move jobs at least,

923
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 3: but they're often going to be low wage jobs aka

924
00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:16,439
Speaker 3: not what the public was promised. Also, they're moving stuff around. Again,

925
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,440
Speaker 3: they're not necessarily creating higher skilled jobs that would change

926
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 3: the fortune of an economy. You know, you don't have

927
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:28,400
Speaker 3: to look far to see examples of quote unquote forward

928
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 3: investment or private public partnerships that do not benefit the

929
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 3: communities in which they are created. Right, But then the

930
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 3: question is if they might not work in terms of

931
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:42,760
Speaker 3: what the public's promise, but if you're the guy trying

932
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 3: to clean the money or the person or the entity

933
00:54:44,960 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 3: trying to clean the money, and freeports are great, they

934
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 3: work perfectly. Why change it?

935
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 2: I don't make more of them? And so we can

936
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 2: move our stuff to other freeports and just keep on

937
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 2: moving it.

938
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:01,800
Speaker 3: Always in transit, you know what I mean, keep on trucking.

939
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,400
Speaker 4: So I mean, surely we're not the only one making

940
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:10,880
Speaker 4: these observations in terms of like what good are these

941
00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 4: to the average you know, citizen, Like what are the

942
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 4: benefits that do they outweigh the Shenanigan agains that are happening.

943
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:23,319
Speaker 4: Are there is there any you know, are there any

944
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 4: moves being made towards, you know, maybe clamping down on

945
00:55:27,840 --> 00:55:29,719
Speaker 4: these things a little bit since they have been kind

946
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 4: of compared to shady banking deals.

947
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 3: Yeah, in Europe, at least in just about four years ago,

948
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 3: the European Union clamped down on around eighty two freeports

949
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:45,080
Speaker 3: and they said, look, all you have been doing, you've

950
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 3: been you've been helping some economies, but you haven't been

951
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 3: helping the economies of your country. You've been helping the

952
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 3: economies of terrorists and money launderers and organized crime. And

953
00:55:56,160 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 3: those are spoiler, not the people you said you were

954
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 3: going to help with this whole with this whole experiment.

955
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:07,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, or individual literally billionaires, yes, like that oligarch we

956
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier, who's just keeping hundreds, if not more, priceless

957
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 2: objects and just waiting to offload them when it may,

958
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 2: when the time is right.

959
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 3: Just seriously, Monty Burns style steepled fingers going, hm, these

960
00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,680
Speaker 3: lab grown diamonds may become an issue.

961
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm telling you.

962
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, shout out to the EU because

963
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,759
Speaker 3: they're making that move, because they concluded what we had

964
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 3: talked about at the very beginning of this evening's episode.

965
00:56:41,080 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 3: They said, these freeports are essentially becoming the sketchy banks

966
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 3: that we had so much trouble with earlier. And the

967
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:54,719
Speaker 3: game of international financial regulation is the game of whackable.

968
00:56:55,120 --> 00:56:58,600
Speaker 3: You kill one institution or you make it honest, then

969
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:00,959
Speaker 3: another one springs up in a place it's even worse.

970
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 3: It's it's like the old myth about the hydra. You

971
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 3: cut off one avenue of dirty money and two more

972
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:13,319
Speaker 3: spring forth. So what will replace the freeports. I don't

973
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,080
Speaker 3: know something is being done. But the question, maybe the

974
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:19,960
Speaker 3: real final question here is will any legislation make a

975
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 3: difference in the face of all this money? It is

976
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 3: so much money. No one knows how much money it is.

977
00:57:27,160 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't. I don't see it happening because let's

978
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:35,080
Speaker 2: say you shut down all the European Union freeports. Guess

979
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: what the people who are using these uh, they've they've

980
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 2: got shipping on lock, they've got yachts, they've got to

981
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:44,240
Speaker 2: move some stuff around.

982
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 4: Guys. It just occurred to me. You know what else

983
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 4: is another good freeport that's in in in pop culture

984
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 4: and literature enter zone and william S Burrow's Naked Lunch

985
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 4: is a freeport. And it also it's like kind of

986
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,840
Speaker 4: of scum and villainy type situation that evolves around there.

987
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 4: And we haven't really talked much about what life is

988
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 4: like in these freeports, but that is how it's depicted

989
00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 4: in Naked Lunch.

990
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:12,439
Speaker 3: Very nice.

991
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 2: Oh, Ben, I think I have an answer to your question.

992
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 2: If they shut down all the freeports, what do they

993
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,400
Speaker 2: replace it with? Moon ports?

994
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:21,640
Speaker 3: Oh? I thought you were gonna say Dave and Busters.

995
00:58:23,200 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 3: All right, Moon and Busters. Yeah, let's do it. Do

996
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:32,080
Speaker 3: check out also our episode on mysterious holes. I promise

997
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:33,240
Speaker 3: that that makes sense.

998
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:34,840
Speaker 2: Right where they're going to keep stuff.

999
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 3: A loophole is a mysterious hole. I guess.

1000
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 4: Technically we promise we only get childish maybe half a

1001
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:46,080
Speaker 4: dozen times, probably less. It's a great episode. Actually, I would.

1002
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:53,640
Speaker 3: Argue, this is my wine cave, right, Please visit me

1003
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,440
Speaker 3: at my port. Don't worry, it's free.

1004
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,880
Speaker 4: It's full of port. Fine port is what I keep

1005
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:01,280
Speaker 4: in mind.

1006
00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:06,800
Speaker 3: Freeport and this something like this will inevitably continue because

1007
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 3: most of the public is never going to personally encounter

1008
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 3: this outside of you know, scamp references in fiction and film.

1009
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 3: We would love to hear your experiences, help your fellow

1010
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 3: conspiracy realist out if you have boots on the ground

1011
00:59:20,560 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 3: with shady international dealings and heck, you know, if you

1012
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,800
Speaker 3: work at a freeport or free economic zone, please tell

1013
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,160
Speaker 3: us the stuff they don't want you to know. We

1014
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,240
Speaker 3: try to be easy to find online.

1015
00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, like what's it? Like, what's the setup? Like

1016
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 4: I'm picturing, you know, the way an airport operates or whatever,

1017
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 4: But I just want to know, like, if you do

1018
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 4: work at one of these describe a day in the

1019
00:59:42,520 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 4: life of a freeport employee. I think that's fascinating. You

1020
00:59:46,360 --> 00:59:48,960
Speaker 4: can find this yeah at the handle conspiracy Stuff, where

1021
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,400
Speaker 4: we exist on Facebook, where we have our Facebook group

1022
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,440
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy, which you can join and

1023
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 4: get in on the conversation. We are also conspiracy stuff

1024
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 4: on xfka, Twitter and on YouTube. Or we have video

1025
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 4: content rolling out every single week. Bet youa we'll do

1026
01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 4: something freeport related one of these days very soon on

1027
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 4: Instagram and TikTok or conspiracy Stuff show.

1028
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:11,720
Speaker 2: Hey, do you like to call people?

1029
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:12,400
Speaker 4: Call us.

1030
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 2: Our number is one eight three three std WYTK. Tell

1031
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 2: us what happens when an airplane runs into your freeport.

1032
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 2: Also tell us what you want us to call you,

1033
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 2: what your nickname is, and then you've got three minutes

1034
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:25,520
Speaker 2: say whatever you'd like.

1035
01:00:25,640 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 3: Just do.

1036
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:27,200
Speaker 2: Let us know if we can use your name and

1037
01:00:27,240 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 2: message on the air. If you got more to say

1038
01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 2: than could fit in that message, why not instead send

1039
01:00:32,000 --> 01:00:32,600
Speaker 2: us an email.

1040
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,760
Speaker 3: We are the entities who read every single email we receive.

1041
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 3: And yes, by the way, when you look in the

1042
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 3: mirror in the dark, we can hear you. Conspiracy at

1043
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,200
Speaker 3: iHeartRadio dot.

1044
01:00:45,920 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 2: Com stuff They Don't Want You to Know is a

1045
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:10,600
Speaker 2: production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

1046
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,800
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

1047
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 2: favorite shows.