Speaker 1: I'm off my game today. No, you're not. People are
Speaker 1: going to have to start making better content. I think
Speaker 1: we're gonna be talking about this for a long time.
Speaker 1: When you program for everyone, you program for no one.
Speaker 1: I think it's that we're purpose driven platform, like we're
Speaker 1: trying to get to substance. How was that? Are you
Speaker 1: happy with that? This is marketing therapy right now? It
Speaker 1: really is? What's up? I'm Laura Currency and I'm Alexa
Speaker 1: Christ and welcome back to at Landia. We have one
Speaker 1: of our favorite people in the studio today, Dear Dre Latour,
Speaker 1: talking all things reputation. Dear Dre is the former chief
Speaker 1: communications officer at g E and has moved on to
Speaker 1: consult businesses about reputation in the marketplace. And she has
Speaker 1: a new podcast called flak You. It's one of the
Speaker 1: smartest business podcasts out there. It's real conversations with real
Speaker 1: people who are actually practitioners doing communications and marketing in
Speaker 1: the world. So we'll be right back with your Latour
Speaker 1: and we are back at Landia with one of our
Speaker 1: favorite people in the business. We both worked with our
Speaker 1: dear dro Latour, reputation guru and former chief communications officer
Speaker 1: of GE. Welcome, dear Draft, Hey, dear Draft Atlandia. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited. We're so excited you're here. That's our newly
Speaker 1: intro Atlandia. So dear draw. Obviously um post ge, you
Speaker 1: have been out in the world preaching reputation. What does
Speaker 1: that look like? Well, there's an easy starter. It looks
Speaker 1: messy and complicated. And you know, I've been thinking a
Speaker 1: lot about something I called the courage Class, and I
Speaker 1: did a podcast on this, and it's really about out
Speaker 1: um companies and brands and people as an employee having
Speaker 1: to stand for something. And you see some great brands
Speaker 1: like Patagonia with them and Nike that really understand their
Speaker 1: core audience and who actually buys their stuff and is
Speaker 1: acting accordingly with their values. So it looks today like
Speaker 1: having to stand up for something. And in the old
Speaker 1: days you could, and I've worked for an advised you
Speaker 1: know CEOs, and the old days the theory was stick
Speaker 1: your head in the sand and just hope everything goes away.
Speaker 1: And you can't do that anymore. So it's funny when
Speaker 1: we are off Mike, you're saying, you know, as a
Speaker 1: communications professionals, we are trained to not voice our own
Speaker 1: opinion in this new paradigm, is it actually important for
Speaker 1: communications professionals to voice their own opinion at least internally
Speaker 1: in a different way? Oh? Internally for sure. I mean
Speaker 1: internally think you have to be the voice of the
Speaker 1: conscious of the organization. And I did that often where
Speaker 1: you're sitting in a boardroom and you're literally the one
Speaker 1: that's saying, am I did I drink before this meeting?
Speaker 1: Or because I don't understand what's happening? Because this is
Speaker 1: not this is going to go badly right? Um, that's
Speaker 1: generally not the role that the CFO or the c
Speaker 1: h R O or the general council plays. A general
Speaker 1: council plays, it's someone in a different way. So I
Speaker 1: definitely think internally communications people need to be louder than
Speaker 1: ever Externally, you still no matter what represent your company,
Speaker 1: you know, so you have to even if you you
Speaker 1: can't have there's no such thing with social of a
Speaker 1: private and a professional life anymore. So how much of
Speaker 1: that is is gut versus science? Right? What would your
Speaker 1: advice or consultative strategy be for clients today who are saying, like,
Speaker 1: what does this intersection look like? And how do we
Speaker 1: sort of gauge where a dial up or dial down
Speaker 1: personal perspective with sort of corporate message. I think it's
Speaker 1: gut actually plays a huge role, but it's a gut
Speaker 1: that you develop over many years of experience, right, So
Speaker 1: it's like a honed gut. However, data increasingly plays a
Speaker 1: huge role in it. So the gut factor is something
Speaker 1: we talk about a lot in the whole because everyone's
Speaker 1: rushing towards data. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: I think that it takes a special leader to say
Speaker 1: it's gut and it's not data. Um, we can get
Speaker 1: the data, but I know this is the right way. Like,
Speaker 1: how do you balance that as an advisor to someone
Speaker 1: like the CEO of General Electric. Yeah, I mean there's
Speaker 1: a What it is is courage, right, And that's why
Speaker 1: I talk about it as the courage class because at
Speaker 1: some level, and we see in our life today, in
Speaker 1: our public life, like what an incredible lack of courage
Speaker 1: there is, you know, because people are following data and
Speaker 1: people are saying in the political world, well, if I
Speaker 1: want to win in I have to do a B
Speaker 1: and C. And does a B and C make you
Speaker 1: sleep well at night? Can you look yourself in the mirror, right.
Speaker 1: So I think when you're advising as CEO, the discussion is,
Speaker 1: you know, you look at all of your stakeholders, like
Speaker 1: a three sixty view on your stakeholders, your investors, your employees,
Speaker 1: your board, you know, the people that buy whatever you make,
Speaker 1: and you do an analysis that's a lot of it
Speaker 1: is gut Well, how will they react, how will the
Speaker 1: investors react? How this and what's the risk reward? And
Speaker 1: you know a lot of times the risk will be
Speaker 1: worth it. So you have this new podcast, flack You. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I love it. Thank you is a great name, and
Speaker 1: I love that you start. So the description is, no,
Speaker 1: we're not swearing at you, flack you. Um, it's about
Speaker 1: taking the word flak back. Communications and messaging are trending
Speaker 1: in two opposing directions. What does that mean, Well, it
Speaker 1: means that they're exactly you know. It means that there's
Speaker 1: people believe that it's spin and that you're there, you know, um,
Speaker 1: completely lying, or there's some fancy lawyer that crafted a
Speaker 1: message that does not sound like any English or any
Speaker 1: other language. It's just not the way people speak. Right.
Speaker 1: And one of the amazing appeals of the President is
Speaker 1: the direct, human, totally way that he talks without being
Speaker 1: overly message So you sort of have the two. It's
Speaker 1: like pure lying and the impact of what lying from
Speaker 1: the podium at a press briefing at the White House means.
Speaker 1: So there's that type of communications and then there's the
Speaker 1: overly scripted, careful one because people are afraid in this environment.
Speaker 1: So what's the balance? Right? You use courage as an
Speaker 1: attribute to get you to sort of that level of
Speaker 1: communication that reads authenticity. But as you're going through the
Speaker 1: courage class and as you're talking with executives about reputation
Speaker 1: in eighteen and beyond, what are the tools and resources
Speaker 1: are best practices that keep it real um and put
Speaker 1: executives in the right sort of context to have that
Speaker 1: cultural conversation Because to your point, like, consumers are savvy, um,
Speaker 1: and I think in this world of advertising and marketing,
Speaker 1: sometimes we don't give them enough credit to understand that
Speaker 1: that packaged message shows the strategy more often times than not.
Speaker 1: And so so what's your advice there? It's really like
Speaker 1: leadership skills, right, It's listening. It's the ability to show
Speaker 1: vulnerability and the ability to get out of your own bubble.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm obsessed with Anthony Borden, right,
Speaker 1: like the idea of going out in the world and
Speaker 1: what a talent to go in any culture, in any
Speaker 1: place in the world and try to understand people. So
Speaker 1: I think that's a huge thing. Vulnerability, as I said,
Speaker 1: it is huge to be able to say I don't
Speaker 1: know or I do know, but I can't tell you
Speaker 1: because legally I can't. Right now. As soon as I can,
Speaker 1: I will. UM. So I think that's a big thing.
Speaker 1: I talk about financial freedom because it is a girl
Speaker 1: friend of mine calls it. All of us should have
Speaker 1: an f you fund, um, and that a flak you
Speaker 1: fund know, And and what that means is that you
Speaker 1: have to you know, you you got to say when
Speaker 1: do I put my badge on the table at a
Speaker 1: company and say you know what this is? Um? You know.
Speaker 1: I hope you guys do well, but it's just not
Speaker 1: for me. So UM. I think there's all sorts of resources.
Speaker 1: Of Empathy is a huge, huge thing. You know, how
Speaker 1: do you really walk in someone else's shoes? Um? And
Speaker 1: I have an autistic child, so that has taught me
Speaker 1: a ton about empathy. It's completely changed how my view empathy.
Speaker 1: So I think all of those things enables you to
Speaker 1: communicate with people in a way that they say, she's
Speaker 1: the real deal and she's not bullshitting us. I love
Speaker 1: the idea, and it's something that we did. It was
Speaker 1: something we practiced at d and with Laura um who
Speaker 1: is leading UM the media agency. I think was getting
Speaker 1: outside of ourselves constantly, like as a marketing communications team.
Speaker 1: It was a practice. It was a muscle that we
Speaker 1: were building. UM. I mean Beth com Stock, I think,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, she's the master of that. Yeah. So, like,
Speaker 1: is there a shift in um, you know, the percentage
Speaker 1: of listening to your own echo chamber that every communications
Speaker 1: and marketing professional should be aware of and say you
Speaker 1: should actually spend eighty percent of your time outside of
Speaker 1: yourself and twenty of your time internally. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: that's a great idea. It depends on your role. I
Speaker 1: mean it's probably if you're a chief communications officer, you know,
Speaker 1: it might be more like fifty percent just because of
Speaker 1: the nature of the job. What's interesting, it's I think
Speaker 1: it's actually there's a nuance with marketing because marketing you
Speaker 1: should probably be you know, with communications because the news
Speaker 1: cycles are so fast now and so brutal. There's also
Speaker 1: something to be said for ignoring everything ng and blocking
Speaker 1: out the noise and just saying this is my vision,
Speaker 1: this is what I think we need to do on
Speaker 1: this team, project, company, whatever it is, and we're going
Speaker 1: and I know right now it's noisy around the edges.
Speaker 1: But news I always tell CEO s this is a
Speaker 1: cycle and in two hours they're going to be on
Speaker 1: to something else, you know, depending on what it is. Obviously,
Speaker 1: So there's a little bit of a nuance when you're
Speaker 1: running communications. I think, what are your thoughts on sort
Speaker 1: of where marketing sits then in that news cycle, and
Speaker 1: and if you're sitting at the communication standpoint, like where
Speaker 1: your brand is showing up also speaks volumes about the
Speaker 1: position you maybe I mean where you're placing ads right
Speaker 1: where you're yeah, I mean it really you can every
Speaker 1: brand can stand for something. Even if your Walmart's which
Speaker 1: needs to be appealing to everyone it's a very broad
Speaker 1: based company. You still can stand for something. And maybe
Speaker 1: you're something is quality, maybe you're something is you know, um,
Speaker 1: so I think you need to find that niche. And
Speaker 1: then in terms of where you're you're in, what your
Speaker 1: values are, what your corporate values are, and then where
Speaker 1: your placing your advertising or doing your UM branded content
Speaker 1: or whatever should completely align with those values. So that's
Speaker 1: if you don't have stated purpose, mission values, brand traits,
Speaker 1: personality traits which you guys always are so good at
Speaker 1: sort of building out and then everything should follow that.
Speaker 1: I think there's this huge thing about UM living those
Speaker 1: through a buy that is right a media by I'm
Speaker 1: not sure many marketing teams think about that because they
Speaker 1: are siloed to many organizations. The comms team isn't always
Speaker 1: necessarily integrated with the marketing team level and the team
Speaker 1: that's actually buying UM and placing the ads. Right, so
Speaker 1: there may be something happening in the boardroom at an
Speaker 1: organization that completely impacts UM the context for where your
Speaker 1: buy is about to show up that evening. We had
Speaker 1: that practice a little bit. D I think what's really
Speaker 1: interesting and it's against all instinct from an advertising perspective
Speaker 1: to say, I'm not going to do quarterly buys, I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna buy in the upfronts. And there was a
Speaker 1: purpose because it was about agility and about being able
Speaker 1: to turn and change and not be locked in. But
Speaker 1: I would love your kind of opinion on that. I mean,
Speaker 1: it needs to be completely integrated. And but by integrated,
Speaker 1: I don't know that it necessarily means needs to be
Speaker 1: one team from a who reports where people report in
Speaker 1: shouldn't matter. If it does, then you have the wrong
Speaker 1: team members. And then we that's a whole other separate
Speaker 1: conversation because people shouldn't care about I don't report to Laura,
Speaker 1: I report to Alexas and you know. UM, but the
Speaker 1: alignment with the company's messaging needs to be no light
Speaker 1: of day between marketing and communications UM. Of two minds, though,
Speaker 1: because communications can sometimes get so mired in it depends
Speaker 1: on what a company is going through. If you're a
Speaker 1: company that is going through tough chat reputation challenges, UM,
Speaker 1: you get so focused on that that I think you
Speaker 1: can lose sight if you let yourself lose sight of
Speaker 1: pushing the brand and continuing to build the brand and
Speaker 1: doing creative new things. So you just want to make
Speaker 1: sure that there's almost a red team that's like, this
Speaker 1: is the team that's innovating and experimenting and pushing the brand,
Speaker 1: as long as it's all lined up to the same
Speaker 1: ultimate goal, which is really commercial. Yeah, I want to
Speaker 1: switch gears a little. So I quote you all the time.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this. And the thing
Speaker 1: that I quote all the time is that you said
Speaker 1: I have to balance doesn't exist. That is like, that's bullshit,
Speaker 1: you can't have balance. I have three kids, I have
Speaker 1: one autistic son. I work for the CEO of one
Speaker 1: of the largest companies in the world. Um, and you
Speaker 1: said one of the biggest struggles I've had was I
Speaker 1: had to see that ambivalence hurt me. And so when
Speaker 1: I had to decide I'm not going to be at
Speaker 1: the birthday party or I'm not going to pick them
Speaker 1: up from school, I'm going to get on the plane
Speaker 1: to China. I made that decision, I stuck to it,
Speaker 1: and I moved forward. That's like an incredible life lesson.
Speaker 1: But it's also something that I remind myself when I
Speaker 1: have to make a decision at work. What would you
Speaker 1: what's your advice for young communications professionals like moving up
Speaker 1: in the world. What's the kind of the point that matters,
Speaker 1: you know, in making decisions and moving their career along. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean the ambivalence point is that all stress is
Speaker 1: created from that. Right. It's because if you are you know,
Speaker 1: I should be your half at the soccer game, and
Speaker 1: you're half at the meeting, then you're not anywhere, right.
Speaker 1: And so it's also the idea of presence, right and
Speaker 1: living in the moment, and how do you live more
Speaker 1: in the moment, which also gets to listening and being
Speaker 1: with people. I'm not worried about your next thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the biggest UM. I mean, you just have
Speaker 1: to trust yourself and listen to yourself and understand that
Speaker 1: you have your own voice, um, and make decisions sometimes
Speaker 1: that are scary decisions, but when you instinctively know their
Speaker 1: right decisions, UM, and have a support network that is
Speaker 1: going to enable you to do that. And then there's
Speaker 1: also the fund that I talked about earlier, which is
Speaker 1: really like get your finances in order, um. And just
Speaker 1: so you feel like it's you can be empowered. UM.
Speaker 1: You know email it used to always say to me,
Speaker 1: you can always get another job. The point of that is,
Speaker 1: you know, if you feel that way, you are so
Speaker 1: much more empowered, whether you're twenty two or one of
Speaker 1: the things you just said. The word presence, I think
Speaker 1: in a world where at least I can personally say
Speaker 1: I have become addicted to my device, and so much
Speaker 1: of the communications that we have in our professional lives
Speaker 1: is done through a device. The idea of presence feels
Speaker 1: like it's becoming increasingly more important now than ever. And
Speaker 1: Alex and I have met a number of executives where
Speaker 1: you feel that they're just talking to you. The authenticity
Speaker 1: and what they say is so much more impactful. I
Speaker 1: think the device is a massive negative, especially the more
Speaker 1: senior that you get in your career, the more people.
Speaker 1: If you go into a meeting with people and you're
Speaker 1: on your phone and checking your email, the message you're
Speaker 1: giving that person is you are not important to me.
Speaker 1: That what is coming into my emails far more important.
Speaker 1: It's also very um, it's showing people that you are important.
Speaker 1: You know, I've got a lot of stuff coming in.
Speaker 1: You know, stuff's blowing up. You know, it's like really
Speaker 1: like come on, you know, so I think that you've
Speaker 1: got to put the phone down and you've got to
Speaker 1: focus on people, and um, you know, it's a huge deal.
Speaker 1: Emails awful emails. The worst way. Do not manage people
Speaker 1: on email. Do not tell people hard things on email.
Speaker 1: You should be using email for things like please meet
Speaker 1: me at four at this place. Yea non emotional so
Speaker 1: I don't ever do that. I always pick up the
Speaker 1: phone or call someone in my office and and give authentic,
Speaker 1: real feedback. It's digitally as horrible. Who are the leaders
Speaker 1: that you think are doing it best? Like when you
Speaker 1: think of communicators out in the marketplace today, either from advertising,
Speaker 1: marketing or just general business leaders, um, who you think
Speaker 1: like they get it? I you know, I am obsessed
Speaker 1: with Tim Cook. I mean, I think Tim Cook is,
Speaker 1: um just a phenomenal communicator and seemingly I don't know him,
Speaker 1: but seemingly a phenomenal human being, and the way he
Speaker 1: runs Apple is really inspiring. What about brands? Who do
Speaker 1: you think outside of Patagonia to me is like the
Speaker 1: brand in the parentheses, like everyone agrees, So outside of
Speaker 1: a Patagoniac, to me, they're like, yep, they're killing it.
Speaker 1: Who else do you think is doing a great job?
Speaker 1: We were just talking about Goldman Sex. I've been blown
Speaker 1: away by Goldman saxsing Goldman Saxes and you know, for
Speaker 1: for transparency, my husband works and content at Goldman Sax
Speaker 1: Original Tour, So you know, so I but Ridge, but
Speaker 1: they're doing Jake c What runs the team there and
Speaker 1: he's fantastic and he has opened up that bank, right
Speaker 1: that's a bank that was a black box before he
Speaker 1: started running communications. Um Amanda Rubin does a phenomenal job there.
Speaker 1: So they're creating content that is in line with their brand,
Speaker 1: which is very high level thought leadership on market issues
Speaker 1: and technology. They actually have a talk show, UM Goldman
Speaker 1: Sachs talk show that they do Talxic Goldman Sacs as well.
Speaker 1: So it's just it's very creative, but within their their
Speaker 1: brand and it makes sense for their clients and for them,
Speaker 1: and it's really been a turnaround story. I mean, they've
Speaker 1: truly opened up Goldman Sacks to being a human brand
Speaker 1: to anyone, which is hard to do, hard to do.
Speaker 1: It's very hard to do. So we're gonna cut to
Speaker 1: our favorite game. Okay, dear de Latour, what would you kill?
Speaker 1: What would you buy? What would you do yourself? I
Speaker 1: would kill all the isms racism, sexism, things like that.
Speaker 1: What would I What would you buy? What would you acquire?
Speaker 1: What would I buy? I would buy a local newspaper,
Speaker 1: probably the Boston Globe and dump a bunch of money
Speaker 1: and hire a bunch of journalists and run it the
Speaker 1: way Bezos is running the Washington Post. And what would
Speaker 1: you do yourself? What would I do myself? I would
Speaker 1: UM figure out the do the research work to figure
Speaker 1: out the cause of autism so that that we could do
Speaker 1: something different going forward. If people want to get in
Speaker 1: touch with you to UM consult on their reputation, how
Speaker 1: do they get in touch with you? UM? LinkedIn and
Speaker 1: Twitter and everyone listen to flak you. It is so
Speaker 1: smart and I love that you're getting kind of non
Speaker 1: obvious people too, UM on the show. Great guests, great
Speaker 1: real conversation. So where can you listen to flac you?
Speaker 1: Anywhere you find podcasts UM, Spotify, Apple, Google, SoundCloud, SoundCloud.
Speaker 1: This morning, Deirdre, thank you so much for coming in.
Speaker 1: Thank you thanks for having me at Landia. Big thanks
Speaker 1: to deer Dre. It's always awesome to see her. She's
Speaker 1: one of the leaders that I have admired the most
Speaker 1: or my career ge and and Post. I love that
Speaker 1: Deerdre always had a way to just cut through, get
Speaker 1: to the point, clear and concise communication for one of
Speaker 1: the largest corporations in the world. When I obviously had
Speaker 1: first met her, but now taking that skill set and
Speaker 1: being able to apply at a time when reputation is everything.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you think about what brands have to
Speaker 1: stand for, what executives have to be ready for, the
Speaker 1: ability to get out and clearly articulate brand value brand
Speaker 1: purpose is more important than ever, So reach out to
Speaker 1: Dear Dre if this is something your organization or your
Speaker 1: executives need support. With big thanks to our producer Dane,
Speaker 1: all of our friends and family have panoply. We'll see
Speaker 1: you in two weeks at Land Yeah M. Full disclosure,
Speaker 1: Our opinions are our own. H