WEBVTT - How a Traditional Toymaker Is Going Big on Digital Games

0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:15.919
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.919
<v Speaker 2>Hello and welcome to another episode of the All Thoughts Podcast.

0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:23.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm Tracy Allaway.

0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.320
<v Speaker 3>And I'm Joe why Isenthal.

0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:26.640
<v Speaker 2>Joe, what do you know about Monopoly?

0:00:27.400 --> 0:00:30.120
<v Speaker 3>My daughter's really into Monopoly. She's really getting into it.

0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:30.920
<v Speaker 2>Do you play with her?

0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:35.080
<v Speaker 3>I do, And she's really into it, And I think

0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.400
<v Speaker 3>she's developing some good intuitions. I think she's about capitalism, yeah,

0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:42.440
<v Speaker 3>and I think she could be like a little bit conservative,

0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:44.720
<v Speaker 3>Like sometimes I think she should buy and she wants

0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:46.839
<v Speaker 3>to like hold on to her cash, and so she

0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:51.080
<v Speaker 3>like foregoes opportunities to get good properties. But I'm excited

0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:52.160
<v Speaker 3>she's taken to the game.

0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.560
<v Speaker 2>That's actually impressive impulse control for a little kid. But

0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:57.720
<v Speaker 2>I do think a monopoly that best strategy is just

0:00:57.800 --> 0:00:59.120
<v Speaker 2>buy everything you land on.

0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:02.200
<v Speaker 3>Pretty basically, Are we going to do an episode just

0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.320
<v Speaker 3>on an optimal monopoly strategy? Because I'd be done with that.

0:01:05.400 --> 0:01:08.120
<v Speaker 2>We should actually, Okay, let me rephrase this. What do

0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.400
<v Speaker 2>you know about Monopoly's history?

0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:14.000
<v Speaker 3>Well, what I've heard, and I don't know if this

0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:15.920
<v Speaker 3>is true, because it seems like it could be an

0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:19.200
<v Speaker 3>urban legend. I've heard that the game was like started

0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:21.840
<v Speaker 3>by some socialist or something like that who wanted to,

0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.400
<v Speaker 3>you know, create a game that would indict capitalism. Monopoly

0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.920
<v Speaker 3>is not considered to be a positive aspect of the

0:01:29.959 --> 0:01:33.920
<v Speaker 3>market system. We usually are against those and yet I

0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.760
<v Speaker 3>don't think many people take that lesson and became massively popular.

0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:39.280
<v Speaker 3>It's a massively successful business in its own right.

0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.319
<v Speaker 2>This is actually it's not an urban legend. It's true.

0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:46.200
<v Speaker 2>So monopoly. I was reading a book about this and

0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.840
<v Speaker 2>it's actually really fascinating. But Monopoly comes from the Landlord's Game,

0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:52.920
<v Speaker 2>which was created in nineteen o three by a woman

0:01:53.000 --> 0:01:56.480
<v Speaker 2>named Lizzie Maggie or Maggie, I'm not sure. And she

0:01:56.560 --> 0:02:01.000
<v Speaker 2>was actually a Quaker, so sort of you know, progressive ideals,

0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.360
<v Speaker 2>and it had almost the opposite ethos to the monopoly

0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:07.400
<v Speaker 2>we know today, and it was supposed to demonstrate that

0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:11.880
<v Speaker 2>an economy that rewards individuals is better than one where

0:02:11.880 --> 0:02:14.959
<v Speaker 2>monopolies hold all the wealth. And there was also a

0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.120
<v Speaker 2>version of taxation in the game that was kind of progressive.

0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:22.360
<v Speaker 2>But then a company called Parker Brothers basically published a

0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:26.960
<v Speaker 2>version of it in nineteen thirty five without the taxation aspect,

0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:30.480
<v Speaker 2>and then Hasbro bought it in the nineteen nineties, and

0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.280
<v Speaker 2>then that's when we started getting the sort of modern

0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:37.000
<v Speaker 2>version of Monopoly that we all know today. And I

0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.080
<v Speaker 2>have to say I was also looking at all the

0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:43.360
<v Speaker 2>various versions of Monopoly that have been published over time.

0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:44.919
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure when I was a kid, I had

0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.320
<v Speaker 2>the Star Wars version. But if you look at an

0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.799
<v Speaker 2>actual list of all the different monopolies that have come

0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.280
<v Speaker 2>out over the years, it's amazing. So first of all,

0:02:54.320 --> 0:03:00.160
<v Speaker 2>there's unlicensed versions like Alpakaopoly with our pakas, but there's

0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:04.240
<v Speaker 2>also a Best Buy version which was licensed and it

0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:05.960
<v Speaker 2>looks kind of amazing. I want to play it. It

0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:08.880
<v Speaker 2>had little store departments instead of property used to buy.

0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:11.520
<v Speaker 2>There's a David Bowie addition. I don't know if that

0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:12.240
<v Speaker 2>interests you.

0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:16.400
<v Speaker 3>So two things. One other thing I say about sometimes

0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:19.560
<v Speaker 3>I've taken the kids to Atlantic City, so my kids know,

0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.040
<v Speaker 3>like they've seen you know, they're like, oh, that's actually

0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.400
<v Speaker 3>park place, that's actually boardwalk, since I know all the

0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.120
<v Speaker 3>properties are streets in Atlantic City. But also they should

0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:30.880
<v Speaker 3>have a version of Monopoly with a land value text.

0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.320
<v Speaker 2>And so you get penalized for failing to get it

0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:35.360
<v Speaker 2>back to its roots.

0:03:35.480 --> 0:03:37.520
<v Speaker 3>Also, I think they should have a version where the

0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:39.800
<v Speaker 3>more you build, the more rents go down.

0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:40.800
<v Speaker 4>It's a theory.

0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.120
<v Speaker 3>If there are more hotels and houses everywhere, then they

0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:46.400
<v Speaker 3>should put it depressing anyway.

0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, all right, what I was building up to is

0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:53.320
<v Speaker 2>that there is also a new version of Monopoly. It

0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.920
<v Speaker 2>is an app, an app version of the game that

0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.280
<v Speaker 2>you can play on your phone or wherever, and it

0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:01.840
<v Speaker 2>has become so popular that it's grossed more than three

0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.600
<v Speaker 2>billion dollars in revenue since launching in April of last year.

0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:10.120
<v Speaker 2>That's according to Hasbro's latest earnings. And beyond that, it

0:04:10.240 --> 0:04:14.560
<v Speaker 2>is so popular that Joe, can you guess what comes next? No,

0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.680
<v Speaker 2>it's so popular that Hasbro is launching a board game

0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.400
<v Speaker 2>version of Monopoly. Goes so, a board game version of

0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.719
<v Speaker 2>the app version of the board game.

0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.520
<v Speaker 3>I love that. That's so great. Yes, that's great.

0:04:27.560 --> 0:04:30.719
<v Speaker 2>Okay, we've come full circle. Anyway. The reason we were

0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:33.239
<v Speaker 2>talking about Monopoly is because today we do, in fact

0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:35.920
<v Speaker 2>have the perfect guest. We are going to be speaking

0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.919
<v Speaker 2>to Chris Cox, the CEO of Hasbro, and we're going

0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:42.840
<v Speaker 2>to be talking to him about the development of Monopoly

0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:45.680
<v Speaker 2>over the years, but also all of their other games,

0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.800
<v Speaker 2>including Magic the Gathering, Joe, you remember we did that

0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:52.000
<v Speaker 2>episode with Richard Garfield and all the other sort of

0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:54.240
<v Speaker 2>digital things they have in the works right now, and

0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.240
<v Speaker 2>just get to handle on what a traditional toymaker is

0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.040
<v Speaker 2>actually doing in games. So I'm very excited. Yeah, Chris,

0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:03.520
<v Speaker 2>thank you so much for coming on all.

0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:06.480
<v Speaker 4>Thoughts, Gracie, Joe, thanks so much for having me and

0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.279
<v Speaker 4>for being huge Monopoly fans.

0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:10.480
<v Speaker 3>You're welcome, You're welcome.

0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.200
<v Speaker 2>I got to say, I am very interested in the

0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Grateful Dead Opoly, where you go on tour with the

0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Dead presumably forever, and you travel from gig to gig

0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:26.279
<v Speaker 2>trying to get rich by purchasing album recordings. That sounds fun. Okay, okay, Chris,

0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:29.600
<v Speaker 2>you have a gaming background. I think you were at

0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Wizards of the Coast, Is that right?

0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:36.200
<v Speaker 4>Yep. I've been in the games industry since nineteen ninety nine,

0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:38.960
<v Speaker 4>or in and out of it. I started at Microsoft

0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.960
<v Speaker 4>in their PC games division, and after about three or

0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.240
<v Speaker 4>four months there, I was transferred into a secret project

0:05:47.279 --> 0:05:50.120
<v Speaker 4>code named Xbox, and then ever since then, I've been

0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.920
<v Speaker 4>in and out of games, working on video games, physical games,

0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.760
<v Speaker 4>games for kids, games for adults. And most recently at

0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.000
<v Speaker 4>Wizards of the Coast, which I helmed prior to becoming

0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:02.760
<v Speaker 4>CEO of Hasbro about two years ago.

0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:04.200
<v Speaker 3>Are you a game lover?

0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Like?

0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.400
<v Speaker 3>I mean, maybe it's obvious, but, like, you know, if

0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.080
<v Speaker 3>you find someone who has had a twenty plus year

0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:12.839
<v Speaker 3>in gaming, is there a pretty good chance that they themselves,

0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:15.320
<v Speaker 3>as part of their hobbies and identities, are just really

0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:15.920
<v Speaker 3>into games.

0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:18.960
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I would challenge you to find a game that

0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:23.200
<v Speaker 4>I wouldn't enjoy playing. I'm a gaming omnivore. I've been

0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:26.960
<v Speaker 4>playing games since. Probably the earliest game I can remember

0:06:27.000 --> 0:06:30.599
<v Speaker 4>playing is Candyland, which also is a Hasburg game. I

0:06:30.600 --> 0:06:33.000
<v Speaker 4>think I remember playing that when I was four with

0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:37.320
<v Speaker 4>my mom, and I've been playing some version of Wizards

0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:39.840
<v Speaker 4>of the Coast game since I was ten years old.

0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.919
<v Speaker 4>I started playing Dungeons and Dragons at my best friend

0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.920
<v Speaker 4>Hans Schroeder's house in Cincinnati, Ohio. I remember seeing like

0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.560
<v Speaker 4>these little metal figurines in his older brother's room that

0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.880
<v Speaker 4>were wizards and dragons that had these like cool jewels

0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:56.920
<v Speaker 4>built into them, and I was like, Hey, what's that.

0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.359
<v Speaker 4>Then they showed me a twenty sided dice and I

0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:02.960
<v Speaker 4>was absolutely hooked. Started playing Magic when I was in college.

0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.360
<v Speaker 4>All of our Avalon Hills strategy games I geeked out too,

0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:10.640
<v Speaker 4>and I have a pretty rich collection of very old

0:07:10.720 --> 0:07:15.040
<v Speaker 4>PC games dating back to my first like EPSOM twenty

0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.000
<v Speaker 4>six hundred from like the early nineteen eighties and my

0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.680
<v Speaker 4>original Mac one twenty eight bit PC.

0:07:23.440 --> 0:07:27.200
<v Speaker 2>So Hasbro just released Earnings, and a lot of the discussion,

0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:29.120
<v Speaker 2>a lot of the questions from analysts was all about

0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.840
<v Speaker 2>the gaming strategy. Talk to us about what the opportunity

0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.080
<v Speaker 2>in games actually is for Hasbro. Why does this seem

0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.560
<v Speaker 2>to be an area of focus for you right now?

0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.920
<v Speaker 4>Well, I think it's a couple of different things. First off,

0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:46.920
<v Speaker 4>it's a very large business either both physical games as

0:07:46.960 --> 0:07:51.360
<v Speaker 4>well as digital games. So inside of physical games, we

0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:55.280
<v Speaker 4>invented the role playing game, We invented the trading card game, Magic,

0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.720
<v Speaker 4>the Gathering. We were one of the earliest pioneers on

0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:04.040
<v Speaker 4>mass produced board games. Milton Bradley started his eponymous board

0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:08.080
<v Speaker 4>game company back in the late or the early eighteen sixties,

0:08:08.560 --> 0:08:12.160
<v Speaker 4>right around the Lincoln inauguration. The Parker Brothers started their

0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.760
<v Speaker 4>game company back I think in like the eighteen nineties,

0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.440
<v Speaker 4>and so we've been a part of games basically as

0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.640
<v Speaker 4>far back as you can really track them. So they're

0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:24.920
<v Speaker 4>a huge part of our culture, they're a huge part

0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.520
<v Speaker 4>of our business, they're a huge part of the identity

0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.040
<v Speaker 4>of the company. And basically everyone plays games. It's a

0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.800
<v Speaker 4>massive market. You know, if you go across the US,

0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.440
<v Speaker 4>a Hasbro game is in better than nine out of

0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:44.800
<v Speaker 4>ten households across the US. Games like Monopoly, Clue, Candyland,

0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:49.920
<v Speaker 4>they basically have ubiquity in terms of brand awareness. And

0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:52.959
<v Speaker 4>you know, as many people as play physical games, a

0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.080
<v Speaker 4>number of people who played digital games Dwarfs even that,

0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:59.760
<v Speaker 4>you know, take Wizards of the Coast, Wizards of the Coast.

0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.040
<v Speaker 4>Game games are mag at the gathering in D and

0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:07.280
<v Speaker 4>D and they're primarily sold through you know, around eight

0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.200
<v Speaker 4>to ten thousand mom and pop style hobby stores around

0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:15.520
<v Speaker 4>the world. About seventy million people play those kinds of

0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:19.839
<v Speaker 4>games and shop at those kinds of stores. They primarily

0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:23.520
<v Speaker 4>sell strategy games, trading card games, role playing games, and

0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:26.880
<v Speaker 4>kind of like crunchier board games. The number of people

0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:30.000
<v Speaker 4>who play those types of games on their PC, phone

0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:35.000
<v Speaker 4>or a console is ten to twelve XA around the world.

0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:37.680
<v Speaker 4>It's like seven hundred million to eight hundred million play

0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:40.800
<v Speaker 4>those kinds of games, So I mean that's a pretty

0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:45.920
<v Speaker 4>healthy hunk of the world's population. It's growing. The games

0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.360
<v Speaker 4>industry has been growing at kind of call it a

0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:52.000
<v Speaker 4>five to eight percent clip for basically as long as

0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.080
<v Speaker 4>tracking goes back, go back to the nineties, and it

0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.560
<v Speaker 4>just continues to expand in terms of the number of

0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.880
<v Speaker 4>people who play games, where they play games, how they

0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:05.200
<v Speaker 4>play games, and the technological innovation that fuels it. So

0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:08.320
<v Speaker 4>Pasbro's all in and I'm a big advocate for it

0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:08.720
<v Speaker 4>as well.

0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:14.880
<v Speaker 3>So Tracy mentioned Monopoly Go, the mobile game and three

0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:18.240
<v Speaker 3>billion in revenue since it's launched in twenty twenty three.

0:10:18.480 --> 0:10:20.480
<v Speaker 3>First of all, like, I haven't played it. What is

0:10:20.600 --> 0:10:23.520
<v Speaker 3>the game Monopoly Go? Because I take it it's distinct.

0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:27.320
<v Speaker 3>But then like, what is the business model of Monopoly Go?

0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:28.320
<v Speaker 3>How does it make money?

0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.280
<v Speaker 4>Well? I think how it engages people and the business

0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:35.120
<v Speaker 4>model go hand in hand. Yeah, And Monopoly Go effectively

0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.599
<v Speaker 4>takes the essence of the board game, the essence of

0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.959
<v Speaker 4>the fun of the board game, which is deal making

0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:46.480
<v Speaker 4>and lighthearted, stabbing your friends in the back, yes, and

0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.680
<v Speaker 4>gamifies it on a phone. You basically go around boards,

0:10:50.880 --> 0:10:55.320
<v Speaker 4>around the world collecting properties, you collect cash, you collect,

0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:59.320
<v Speaker 4>fun digital items, you collect kind of power ups and dice,

0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.959
<v Speaker 4>and then you're able to raid your friends and kind

0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:06.640
<v Speaker 4>of like through a series of minigames, either you know,

0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.760
<v Speaker 4>set them back a little bit, challenge them to some

0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.280
<v Speaker 4>fun kind of minigames or adventures, and it creates that

0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:16.600
<v Speaker 4>kind of dynamic that you see around the board when

0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.560
<v Speaker 4>you're playing with your family or with your friends, where

0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.360
<v Speaker 4>someone's trying to slip one hundred from out of the bank,

0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.080
<v Speaker 4>or someone's trying to slip park Place out of the

0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:29.040
<v Speaker 4>slots and the board even though it hasn't been built,

0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.920
<v Speaker 4>or they're pushing like a little extra house onto a

0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:35.959
<v Speaker 4>row of three houses and hoping that you don't notice.

0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.240
<v Speaker 4>And it's that kind of fun kind of mischief that

0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.600
<v Speaker 4>I think makes the game great to play in person,

0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:44.560
<v Speaker 4>and that scope ly our partner who's made the game

0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.920
<v Speaker 4>has done a fantastic job capturing the essence of and

0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:50.320
<v Speaker 4>I think it's what really has driven the popularity of it.

0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.160
<v Speaker 4>The business model just kind of carries on that fun.

0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.560
<v Speaker 4>The more that you play, the more friends that you

0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.920
<v Speaker 4>connect and can play with and kind of create that fun,

0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.280
<v Speaker 4>loving mischief with the more fun the game is, the

0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:06.800
<v Speaker 4>more engaging the game is, and just the more opportunities

0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:09.480
<v Speaker 4>there are for you to extend the play. And really

0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:11.760
<v Speaker 4>the kind of the way that the game makes money

0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.800
<v Speaker 4>is this concept of earning dice and buying extra dice

0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.120
<v Speaker 4>because the dice give you the ability to make extra

0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:23.360
<v Speaker 4>moves and extra turns. You don't have to pay a

0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:25.600
<v Speaker 4>cent to play the game, and you can have a

0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.280
<v Speaker 4>lot of fun playing the game for free. But if

0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.320
<v Speaker 4>you feel a little bit of an extra challenge, or

0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:33.839
<v Speaker 4>you want to get a couple steps ahead of your

0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.360
<v Speaker 4>friend who lives across the country, or you want to

0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:37.920
<v Speaker 4>be the first to be able to raid the board

0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.600
<v Speaker 4>in Sydney out of your friend group, you might be

0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 4>incentivized to pay a dollar or two to get some

0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:46.839
<v Speaker 4>extra dice and just get the jump on your quote

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:47.839
<v Speaker 4>unquote competition.

0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:51.480
<v Speaker 2>Wow, it sounds like capitalism on steroids. Like say what

0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:55.440
<v Speaker 2>you will about the original monopoly, but it respected property rights.

0:12:55.520 --> 0:13:14.600
<v Speaker 2>You couldn't like steal property. Is there anything surprising that

0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.839
<v Speaker 2>you've learned from the Monopoly Go experience. I was reading

0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.320
<v Speaker 2>through the earnings transcript, for instance, and there was a

0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.760
<v Speaker 2>lot of discussion about seasonality and you weren't quite sure

0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:27.400
<v Speaker 2>what the seasonality was with something like Monopoly Go. Talk

0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.839
<v Speaker 2>to us about how that sort of business aspect of

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:31.960
<v Speaker 2>it all is unfolding.

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:37.040
<v Speaker 4>Well, Monopoly Goo is the most successful mobile game outside

0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:42.160
<v Speaker 4>of China in history, So it's really an unprecedented scale

0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:46.880
<v Speaker 4>of game and scale of building its engagement and building

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.520
<v Speaker 4>its audience. So when you have an end of one,

0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.679
<v Speaker 4>there aren't a lot of other games that you can

0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.400
<v Speaker 4>go compare against and say, oh, it's going to behave

0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.760
<v Speaker 4>like X, or it's going to behave like Why. There's

0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:02.520
<v Speaker 4>some games that are closed on go, you know, Candy Crush,

0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:05.800
<v Speaker 4>Clash of Clans, these kind of more casual to mid

0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.360
<v Speaker 4>core games that have a very compelling social engagement loop

0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:13.320
<v Speaker 4>associated with them, and several of those, particularly some of

0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 4>the more casual versions of those, like some of the

0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:19.480
<v Speaker 4>Match three games like a Candy Crush, do exhibit a

0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:24.160
<v Speaker 4>degree of seasonality. POKEMONO, particularly in its early days, certainly did,

0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.760
<v Speaker 4>particularly when it was all about going outside and kind

0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.240
<v Speaker 4>of experiencing locales. It was a little bit more weather

0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:33.560
<v Speaker 4>based back then, so there is a degree of that,

0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 4>But you know, we're kind of learning as we go

0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:38.440
<v Speaker 4>and we're learning with scope ly as we go. The

0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.920
<v Speaker 4>good news there is scope Lee's arguably one of the

0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.480
<v Speaker 4>biggest and best mobile games publishers in the world. They

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 4>have a lot of experience with a lot of other

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 4>games that are similar in audience type and engagement loops

0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.960
<v Speaker 4>as a game like Monopoly Go, so we're able to

0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:59.040
<v Speaker 4>leverage those. But you know, a game like Scrabble with

0:14:59.120 --> 0:15:03.600
<v Speaker 4>Buddies or Yatzie with Buddies. There's still successful games, but

0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 4>they're ten x smaller than Monopoly Go. So just given

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 4>that scale in size and audience reach, there's gonna be

0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.560
<v Speaker 4>nuances that you're gonna discover for the first time simply

0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:15.520
<v Speaker 4>by being a pioneer.

0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:19.480
<v Speaker 3>There is this phenomenon that people in the mobile gaming

0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.560
<v Speaker 3>industry you talk about. I think they call it like

0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 3>the sharkfin effect, which is like a game will get

0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 3>really popular and then it'll fade very fast. And I

0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.000
<v Speaker 3>think there was that. You know, Flappy Birds was one,

0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.000
<v Speaker 3>and I remember like people like played that like crazy

0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:36.760
<v Speaker 3>for a little while and then it like disappeared. I

0:15:36.800 --> 0:15:40.440
<v Speaker 3>got into this game, Elto's Adventure. I heard people talk

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 3>about that. I forgot about it. There are a few

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:44.720
<v Speaker 3>others this seems to be a recurring thing. Can you

0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:49.960
<v Speaker 3>describe why that happens? Why you see certain games exploded

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.400
<v Speaker 3>popularity and then a year later they go like what

0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.360
<v Speaker 3>is the sort of impulse that that happens? And then like,

0:15:56.400 --> 0:15:59.520
<v Speaker 3>how do you think about avoiding that risk? So that okay,

0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:02.400
<v Speaker 3>this everyone's playing Monopoly, go and then next year they're

0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:03.320
<v Speaker 3>moving on to something else.

0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:06.280
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, this is probably a better question for the team

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.800
<v Speaker 4>at scopely since they're the experts. But I'll give you

0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 4>my two cents. So a lot of games have a

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.760
<v Speaker 4>very fun kind of initial loop and they're very engaging

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.280
<v Speaker 4>for a call it a half hour, an hour and

0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 4>maybe aswards of ten to twenty hours, so you know,

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.080
<v Speaker 4>they kind of almost operate, particularly in the mobile space.

0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.520
<v Speaker 4>Is the equivalent of like a fidget spinner. It's something

0:16:28.560 --> 0:16:31.320
<v Speaker 4>to kind of keep your fingers busy. It helps to

0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 4>occupy the time while you're on the subway or just

0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:35.720
<v Speaker 4>in a waiting room.

0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.640
<v Speaker 3>I got really Game eight for that reason. Actually is

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:41.440
<v Speaker 3>another one anyway, Sorry, keep going.

0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.120
<v Speaker 4>But at the end of the day, they don't really

0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 4>change up the game dynamic that much, or they don't

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:52.680
<v Speaker 4>really drive kind of like additional loops that engage you

0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:56.520
<v Speaker 4>in new or different ways or different challenges. So a

0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:58.720
<v Speaker 4>lot of the games that have that quote unquote shark

0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:02.520
<v Speaker 4>thin effect, something that's really fun and really compelling, and

0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 4>they keep people for call it three days or seven days.

0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.399
<v Speaker 4>But then they tend to tail off, you know. The

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.679
<v Speaker 4>games that tend to be enduring, that tend to do

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.400
<v Speaker 4>very very well. They tend to be games that they

0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:19.560
<v Speaker 4>have not just an initial loop, but they have multiple

0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:23.240
<v Speaker 4>loops and multiple layers the deeper you get into Itnopoly

0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 4>Go is an example of that. Other games that have

0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:29.240
<v Speaker 4>been super successful of that are games like Clash of

0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.919
<v Speaker 4>Clans or Candy Crush Saga. And what they tend to

0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.040
<v Speaker 4>do is the complexity of the game builds over time.

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:39.840
<v Speaker 4>The amount of things that you can do, the amount

0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.080
<v Speaker 4>of minigames that you can do, gets bigger and bigger,

0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.159
<v Speaker 4>but at a manageable pace. And they add in a

0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:49.240
<v Speaker 4>social component to it so that it's not just you

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.520
<v Speaker 4>playing the game, but you feel like you're playing the

0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.160
<v Speaker 4>game with a large circle of your friends and associates,

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.639
<v Speaker 4>which also makes it even more fun because the challenges

0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 4>just aren't you as a single play the challenges are

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.400
<v Speaker 4>with you as a group of people, and so obviously

0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.560
<v Speaker 4>it's more fun to play with multiple people and creating

0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.600
<v Speaker 4>social dynamics and kind of raiding each other or ribbing

0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:14.399
<v Speaker 4>each other or having like some fun loving mischief with

0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:18.600
<v Speaker 4>each other. That makes the game endure. So the games

0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:22.159
<v Speaker 4>that like do achieve hyper scale, like a monopoly go,

0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:26.080
<v Speaker 4>they tend to maintain that hyper scale for a very

0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.000
<v Speaker 4>long time. If you go back and look at just

0:18:29.040 --> 0:18:32.760
<v Speaker 4>in the US, the top twenty games in the US today,

0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:35.960
<v Speaker 4>half of them have been in the market for over

0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:38.399
<v Speaker 4>five years, and several of them have been in the

0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:41.439
<v Speaker 4>market for you know, upwards of eight to ten years.

0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:44.840
<v Speaker 4>And you know, sure they have a big year one,

0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:47.520
<v Speaker 4>they have a big year two, and then they start

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.680
<v Speaker 4>to taper a bit after that, but they maintain at

0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.240
<v Speaker 4>a very very healthy rate.

0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:57.200
<v Speaker 2>So this might sound like a weird question, but how

0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:59.600
<v Speaker 2>do you know when a game is a hit? And

0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:01.960
<v Speaker 2>how do you sort of judge the success of a game.

0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:05.399
<v Speaker 2>Is it purely by the amount of dollars that it

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.760
<v Speaker 2>brings in, or is it virality or bringing people into

0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.639
<v Speaker 2>like the Hasbro network. How do you judge success here?

0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:15.119
<v Speaker 4>Well, I think it depends on the game. So when

0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:18.200
<v Speaker 4>you're looking at a mobile game or what we call

0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.680
<v Speaker 4>games as a service, which usually are games that are

0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:25.680
<v Speaker 4>either free to acquire upfront or cost very little upfront,

0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.720
<v Speaker 4>but you tend to make money off of based off

0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:33.159
<v Speaker 4>of how frequently and long people play because there's just

0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.359
<v Speaker 4>engagement loops that engage them and give them opportunities to

0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.520
<v Speaker 4>power things up or customize the game. You tend to

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:44.199
<v Speaker 4>look at the retention rates on those games, and so

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 4>usually you look at a D one, a D three,

0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:50.359
<v Speaker 4>a D seven, and a D thirty retention rate on

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.159
<v Speaker 4>those games, and you're going to want to see games.

0:19:53.920 --> 0:19:57.040
<v Speaker 4>It will vary based off of the genre, but you're

0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.400
<v Speaker 4>typically going to want to see a D one retention

0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:03.640
<v Speaker 4>rate access of forty percent, ideally in excess to fifty percent.

0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.200
<v Speaker 4>You're going to want to see a D seven retention

0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:09.480
<v Speaker 4>rate meaning how many people who started a week ago

0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 4>are still playing after seven days in excess of call

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.600
<v Speaker 4>it twenty to thirty percent, and then you're going to

0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.520
<v Speaker 4>ideally want to see a D thirty retention rate in

0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.840
<v Speaker 4>the ten to fifteen percent range. If you have a

0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:28.040
<v Speaker 4>game that's retaining users like that and engaging players at

0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:31.960
<v Speaker 4>a pretty snappy clip, you probably have the makings of

0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.919
<v Speaker 4>a really, really good and long lasting business. So an

0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.800
<v Speaker 4>example of a game that Hasbro does that has retention

0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.960
<v Speaker 4>rates like that would be mag at the Gathering Arena.

0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:47.000
<v Speaker 4>It's a free version of our most popular brand, Match

0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.600
<v Speaker 4>at the Gathering, which is a billion dollar plus trading

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.120
<v Speaker 4>card game. It actually invented the trading card genre, and

0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.159
<v Speaker 4>it has retention rates that are astronomical. They're at the

0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:01.359
<v Speaker 4>high end of all those balns that I talked about,

0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:05.160
<v Speaker 4>And you know, we actually measured loyalty and a game

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:10.440
<v Speaker 4>like Arena in months and years as opposed to days.

0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:13.200
<v Speaker 4>Like many mobile games like a Flappy Bird for instance,

0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:15.280
<v Speaker 4>as good as it is, that tends to have a

0:21:15.359 --> 0:21:19.080
<v Speaker 4>high churn rate. And so generally speaking, the longer you're

0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.280
<v Speaker 4>able to engage people and the more fun they're going

0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.280
<v Speaker 4>to have, the more opportunities you have to be able

0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:26.280
<v Speaker 4>to make a fair profit off of the game. And

0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:29.520
<v Speaker 4>then there's premium games, which have kind of a different model.

0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.240
<v Speaker 4>A premium game is kind of what we all might

0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 4>remember from, you know, when we were kids buying games

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 4>for a Nintendo or buying games for a PlayStation or

0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:42.960
<v Speaker 4>an Xbox. You pay fifty dollars sixty dollars sometimes upwards

0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.719
<v Speaker 4>of seventy dollars up front. You typically get almost all

0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:51.040
<v Speaker 4>the value from that initial purchase. Maybe you sell downloadable content,

0:21:51.160 --> 0:21:54.320
<v Speaker 4>maybe there's a subscription that you can join, but most

0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:58.000
<v Speaker 4>typically you get the value up front. And what you

0:21:58.080 --> 0:21:59.720
<v Speaker 4>try to do there is you try to give a

0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:04.480
<v Speaker 4>very high end kind of blockbuster entertainment experience in exchange

0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:08.719
<v Speaker 4>for that high upfront cost. And you know, ideally you

0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:12.240
<v Speaker 4>want to maintain people for the twenty to one hundred

0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:16.520
<v Speaker 4>hours of gameplay, but it's not as important. What's important

0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:18.719
<v Speaker 4>is that they have a really fun first five to

0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.360
<v Speaker 4>ten hours and feel satisfied by the game, whereas in mobile,

0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:25.280
<v Speaker 4>really the first five to ten hours is just the

0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:28.600
<v Speaker 4>beginning of the engagement loop. You want to see players

0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:32.159
<v Speaker 4>hang around for ideally weeks, if not months and years

0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:34.719
<v Speaker 4>and really kind of make it a part of their

0:22:34.800 --> 0:22:36.400
<v Speaker 4>daily routine.

0:22:36.680 --> 0:22:41.119
<v Speaker 3>So Tracy mentioned in the beginning that the surreality of

0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.960
<v Speaker 3>the fact that there's now a physical version of the

0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:49.960
<v Speaker 3>mobile game, of the physical version of Monopoly, obviously it's tweaked.

0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.480
<v Speaker 3>You know, something that people talk about in culture generally,

0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.000
<v Speaker 3>and I often wonder if it's sort of wish casting

0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:58.600
<v Speaker 3>and not really a real thing. It's like, oh, people

0:22:58.640 --> 0:23:01.240
<v Speaker 3>wanting to like return to the analog, and there are

0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:02.960
<v Speaker 3>always people like oh, I think people are going to

0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.280
<v Speaker 3>want to read physical papers and nice heavy stock physical

0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.200
<v Speaker 3>magazines and maybe be on their phones a little bit less.

0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:12.720
<v Speaker 3>And again I always wonder if it's wishful thinking. But

0:23:12.920 --> 0:23:17.520
<v Speaker 3>in the game realm specifically, is this a real phenomenon

0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:21.280
<v Speaker 3>where you see people wanting to have that sort of tactile,

0:23:21.320 --> 0:23:24.679
<v Speaker 3>physical experience that they previously had on games, or is

0:23:24.720 --> 0:23:30.120
<v Speaker 3>this just a distinct opportunity specifically associated with the success

0:23:30.119 --> 0:23:30.840
<v Speaker 3>of Monopoly Go.

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:34.160
<v Speaker 4>I think it's very real phenomena, and I think it's

0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:38.399
<v Speaker 4>been what's powering the physical games portfolio for US and

0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:41.120
<v Speaker 4>other companies for the last decade plus, and I think

0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:44.639
<v Speaker 4>it's going to power it for the certainly the foreseeable future.

0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:50.959
<v Speaker 4>People hunger for authentic connection, and a game gives people

0:23:51.760 --> 0:23:55.360
<v Speaker 4>kind of an easy rule book for creating authentic connection.

0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.080
<v Speaker 4>It's an easy way for families to get together and

0:23:59.240 --> 0:24:02.600
<v Speaker 4>spend some quality time at a table, phones down and

0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:07.160
<v Speaker 4>people engaged on the totem that is the game. It's

0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:10.639
<v Speaker 4>a great way to find an excuse to get together

0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 4>with friends on a regular basis to go through an

0:24:14.040 --> 0:24:18.480
<v Speaker 4>adventure together like we do with Dungeons and Dragons. It's

0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:22.800
<v Speaker 4>a fantastic way for you know, people who are new

0:24:22.840 --> 0:24:25.760
<v Speaker 4>to a city and want to plug in with people

0:24:25.760 --> 0:24:28.399
<v Speaker 4>who have shared interests, like we see with Magic the

0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:31.720
<v Speaker 4>Gathering and the network of stores that we call the

0:24:31.920 --> 0:24:36.119
<v Speaker 4>Wizard's Play Network who put on over a million play

0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:39.480
<v Speaker 4>events per year across those stores, that people can come

0:24:39.480 --> 0:24:42.919
<v Speaker 4>in and find a friend who loves the game and

0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:46.600
<v Speaker 4>has a similar passion to them. And you know, I

0:24:46.640 --> 0:24:50.320
<v Speaker 4>don't see that ebbing, if anything, I see that hunger

0:24:50.359 --> 0:24:55.160
<v Speaker 4>for physical connection and that desire to kind of create

0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:58.440
<v Speaker 4>a shared story through the adventure that a game provides.

0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:02.080
<v Speaker 4>As only growing it to be more and more important

0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:04.240
<v Speaker 4>to people as we digitize more and more.

0:25:04.640 --> 0:25:07.360
<v Speaker 2>Since you brought up Magic the Gathering, one thing I've

0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:10.359
<v Speaker 2>been wondering is how do you balance the sort of

0:25:10.640 --> 0:25:16.800
<v Speaker 2>original attraction of the game with the expansion and the

0:25:16.840 --> 0:25:20.360
<v Speaker 2>need to you know, basically roll out new products and

0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:24.240
<v Speaker 2>get people buying new cards. And one of the things

0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:26.240
<v Speaker 2>I've been thinking about, you know, call me a Magic

0:25:26.280 --> 0:25:29.159
<v Speaker 2>the Gathering purist, but you've been doing a lot of

0:25:29.200 --> 0:25:33.600
<v Speaker 2>collaborations with TV shows, and I think you just announced

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:38.560
<v Speaker 2>something with the Marvel universe, and I personally find some

0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:41.280
<v Speaker 2>of these tie ins kind of weird. Like I can't

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:46.000
<v Speaker 2>imagine playing cards and being like I attack with Rick

0:25:46.080 --> 0:25:48.919
<v Speaker 2>from The Walking Dead and then I block with iron

0:25:49.000 --> 0:25:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Man or something like that.

0:25:51.160 --> 0:25:51.680
<v Speaker 3>How do you.

0:25:51.680 --> 0:25:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Balance the originality of the experience or the initial attraction

0:25:56.600 --> 0:26:00.719
<v Speaker 2>to the game with some of this like new licensing

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:01.880
<v Speaker 2>driven growth.

0:26:02.440 --> 0:26:06.480
<v Speaker 4>I think what's great about this podcast, Tracy, is what

0:26:06.560 --> 0:26:09.919
<v Speaker 4>you find weird. I find amazing. You know, as a player,

0:26:10.080 --> 0:26:14.560
<v Speaker 4>you know, hey, sign me up for Rick battling iron

0:26:14.600 --> 0:26:18.800
<v Speaker 4>Man set against a bunch of space marines from Warhammer

0:26:18.840 --> 0:26:22.399
<v Speaker 4>forty K. That sounds like a really fun gaming time

0:26:22.400 --> 0:26:25.040
<v Speaker 4>to me. And I think that's the magic of what

0:26:25.080 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 4>we've been doing with Magic for the last five years.

0:26:29.600 --> 0:26:32.359
<v Speaker 4>We don't want to just be trapped in amber. We

0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:34.840
<v Speaker 4>don't want the game to just be the same thing

0:26:34.880 --> 0:26:38.480
<v Speaker 4>that it's been for the last thirty years. We want

0:26:38.520 --> 0:26:40.679
<v Speaker 4>it to change and we want it to evolve, but

0:26:40.720 --> 0:26:45.000
<v Speaker 4>we also want it to be fully backwards compatible and

0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:49.520
<v Speaker 4>continuously offering flavors that bring in more and more people

0:26:49.600 --> 0:26:52.679
<v Speaker 4>to the table and just make the community richer and

0:26:52.760 --> 0:26:56.280
<v Speaker 4>more vibrant. Now you know. The downside to it is

0:26:56.359 --> 0:26:59.280
<v Speaker 4>there are some people who are traditionalists. There are some

0:26:59.440 --> 0:27:05.680
<v Speaker 4>people who are completionists, and they don't necessarily like the changes,

0:27:06.359 --> 0:27:12.119
<v Speaker 4>but that tends to be the significant minority. There's way, way,

0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:16.159
<v Speaker 4>way more people who want to weigh into what, in

0:27:16.200 --> 0:27:18.639
<v Speaker 4>my opinion, is one of the best games ever invented

0:27:19.240 --> 0:27:23.320
<v Speaker 4>to play with ips that they love, with cards that

0:27:23.359 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 4>are instantly familiar to them, and we found what we

0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:29.719
<v Speaker 4>call Universes Beyond, which are these tie ins we do

0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:34.959
<v Speaker 4>with other brands to be by far the most successful

0:27:35.119 --> 0:27:38.959
<v Speaker 4>new player introduction that we've ever done in physical cards.

0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:42.480
<v Speaker 3>Well, say, can you explain that last part further? What's

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:44.840
<v Speaker 3>the new move that has been so successful.

0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:49.560
<v Speaker 4>It's called the Universes Beyond, which is our invitation of

0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:53.280
<v Speaker 4>other brands to come into our play platform and be

0:27:53.359 --> 0:27:56.959
<v Speaker 4>able to experience the magic of magic. It's not an

0:27:57.000 --> 0:28:01.199
<v Speaker 4>original strategy. It's actually a very time test strategy. You know,

0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:05.240
<v Speaker 4>you look at games like Fortnite, they do constant seasons

0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:08.560
<v Speaker 4>with outside ip that really spices up the game and

0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:12.920
<v Speaker 4>invites new people in. Lego has been doing it for forever,

0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:16.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, they started with Star Wars and have expanded

0:28:16.080 --> 0:28:19.080
<v Speaker 4>to you know, they do Transformers now, they do Pepa Pig, now,

0:28:19.080 --> 0:28:21.679
<v Speaker 4>they do D and D now. It just makes the

0:28:21.720 --> 0:28:25.800
<v Speaker 4>play system a richer playground for people to be able

0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:30.000
<v Speaker 4>to experience. Now, we still have all the traditional elves

0:28:30.080 --> 0:28:34.720
<v Speaker 4>and dragons and heroes and lore from Magic, and we

0:28:34.800 --> 0:28:37.880
<v Speaker 4>always have sets for those, and we always make sure

0:28:38.160 --> 0:28:40.720
<v Speaker 4>all the cards inside of Magic, and I think at

0:28:40.720 --> 0:28:43.160
<v Speaker 4>this point we're getting close to between twenty to twenty

0:28:43.160 --> 0:28:47.240
<v Speaker 4>five thousand unique cards that exist in the Magic Universe.

0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:50.800
<v Speaker 4>All of those cards are fully compatible with each other.

0:28:51.360 --> 0:28:54.280
<v Speaker 4>You can buy a pack of cards from nineteen ninety three,

0:28:54.800 --> 0:28:57.880
<v Speaker 4>and I wouldn't recommend cracking them open because they're very

0:28:57.960 --> 0:29:00.360
<v Speaker 4>valuable if you buy them, But you could and you

0:29:00.400 --> 0:29:02.560
<v Speaker 4>could play with the pack of cards that you bought

0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:05.719
<v Speaker 4>in twenty twenty three and they would be fully compatible

0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:09.239
<v Speaker 4>with each other. And you know, I think enriching that

0:29:09.320 --> 0:29:13.120
<v Speaker 4>play system with a lot of fantastic brands that have

0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:33.280
<v Speaker 4>very vibrant fan communities just makes Magic more magical to play. Joe.

0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:36.800
<v Speaker 2>After we recorded that episode with Richard Garfield, I went

0:29:36.840 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 2>off to look to see if I could find my

0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:41.440
<v Speaker 2>old Magic the gathering cards. These would have been from

0:29:41.440 --> 0:29:43.960
<v Speaker 2>like nineteen ninety four, ninety five, and I can't find

0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:47.280
<v Speaker 2>them anywhere. And I'm so sad because not only do

0:29:47.400 --> 0:29:49.560
<v Speaker 2>I think they are worth like a decent amount of

0:29:49.560 --> 0:29:52.240
<v Speaker 2>money nowadays, but I would actually like to see them again.

0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:54.720
<v Speaker 2>And I have this vision in my mind of exactly

0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:59.040
<v Speaker 2>where they are. They were in an after eight mint container. Oh,

0:29:59.080 --> 0:30:02.000
<v Speaker 2>and I recall seeing it somewhere like in the past

0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:04.560
<v Speaker 2>twenty years. But I'll find it.

0:30:04.680 --> 0:30:05.320
<v Speaker 4>You'll find it.

0:30:05.400 --> 0:30:07.560
<v Speaker 3>I know I have old baseball cards and a record

0:30:07.560 --> 0:30:10.560
<v Speaker 3>collection somewhere, and I have no idea where there's. You know,

0:30:10.720 --> 0:30:14.800
<v Speaker 3>something I'm interested in speaking of, like culture, is the

0:30:14.880 --> 0:30:18.719
<v Speaker 3>sort of like intergenerational cultural transmission. And you know, when

0:30:18.760 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 3>I was a kid, I listened to the same music

0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:24.840
<v Speaker 3>as my parents because they would put on music and

0:30:24.920 --> 0:30:26.800
<v Speaker 3>I was in the room, and so that's what I

0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:29.520
<v Speaker 3>heard and that's what I got into. And to some extent,

0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:32.520
<v Speaker 3>that doesn't happen the same way with music anymore, because

0:30:32.560 --> 0:30:34.920
<v Speaker 3>my kids might be on headphones or I might be

0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:37.040
<v Speaker 3>on headphones. So when I'm listening to music, it's not

0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:40.200
<v Speaker 3>just sort of blasting throughout the living room or wherever

0:30:40.240 --> 0:30:42.440
<v Speaker 3>it is you know, when you think about like these

0:30:42.520 --> 0:30:46.160
<v Speaker 3>like games like these like backwards compatible games like you know,

0:30:46.240 --> 0:30:49.320
<v Speaker 3>like Magic and so forth, I'm curious, like how you

0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:53.920
<v Speaker 3>see that playing out in the game space. Games getting

0:30:53.960 --> 0:30:56.920
<v Speaker 3>passed on. Parents play with their kids. Obviously I played

0:30:56.960 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Monopoly with my daughter. I think we also play like

0:31:00.240 --> 0:31:02.080
<v Speaker 3>and ladders and stuff like that. But then there is

0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:05.040
<v Speaker 3>this element that they have all the avenues of finding games,

0:31:05.080 --> 0:31:07.960
<v Speaker 3>whether it's online or on a phone, that are not

0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:10.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, something I would have played. And I'm sort

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:14.000
<v Speaker 3>of curious about the phenomenon of like passing down games

0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:17.640
<v Speaker 3>and how you think about the durability of brands in

0:31:17.720 --> 0:31:18.720
<v Speaker 3>this aspect.

0:31:18.920 --> 0:31:22.640
<v Speaker 4>I think it's the primary way people learn about a

0:31:22.680 --> 0:31:26.560
<v Speaker 4>new game is through their parents playing around family board

0:31:26.680 --> 0:31:29.000
<v Speaker 4>game night, you know, whether that's a Friday or Thursday

0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:32.560
<v Speaker 4>or pick your boys and experiencing the joy and you know,

0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:35.840
<v Speaker 4>passing on like a treasured memory from your childhood to

0:31:35.960 --> 0:31:39.320
<v Speaker 4>your kids. I know my son loves D and D.

0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:43.040
<v Speaker 4>He loves Magic. He got that from me. The favorite

0:31:43.080 --> 0:31:48.280
<v Speaker 4>game our family plays is Monopoly. You know, we try

0:31:48.320 --> 0:31:52.160
<v Speaker 4>playing well, we play it less because my wife dislikes

0:31:52.160 --> 0:31:55.760
<v Speaker 4>how much we cheat. But the kids in chip ceo.

0:31:57.760 --> 0:32:01.040
<v Speaker 3>Wait do you it's admitting that cheer? Wait do you

0:32:01.280 --> 0:32:03.720
<v Speaker 3>play that? If you land on free parking you get

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:07.400
<v Speaker 3>cash in the middle or like, where do you stand on?

0:32:07.480 --> 0:32:10.160
<v Speaker 4>That is often unnecessary for my kids and I because

0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 4>we seem to always have a magical font of cash.

0:32:13.280 --> 0:32:15.920
<v Speaker 4>Our favorite version is the cheaters edition. We actually came

0:32:15.960 --> 0:32:19.400
<v Speaker 4>out with a version of Monopoly which was focused on

0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:22.480
<v Speaker 4>things that you needed to cheat on, tasks you needed

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:26.160
<v Speaker 4>to do, and basically, like we know, the game of

0:32:26.200 --> 0:32:28.800
<v Speaker 4>Monopoly is done at our house when my wife flips

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:36.760
<v Speaker 4>the board, usually around turn four or five. Game. But

0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:39.720
<v Speaker 4>it's fun. And you know, my kids love Monopoly. Now

0:32:39.880 --> 0:32:42.880
<v Speaker 4>my son loves magic and D and D. And you

0:32:42.960 --> 0:32:45.440
<v Speaker 4>do it with video games as well. Like to me,

0:32:46.760 --> 0:32:50.720
<v Speaker 4>games are such powerful ip you know, they might not

0:32:50.960 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 4>create like these cultural moments that a big Hollywood movie does, right,

0:32:56.800 --> 0:33:02.000
<v Speaker 4>but they create millions upon millions of very powerful personal moments.

0:33:02.720 --> 0:33:06.680
<v Speaker 4>And that's why brands like Monopoly can translate so well

0:33:07.320 --> 0:33:10.959
<v Speaker 4>from a board game to a multi billion dollar mobile

0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:14.400
<v Speaker 4>game back to a board game again, because people have

0:33:14.520 --> 0:33:18.920
<v Speaker 4>such intimate experience with them that has this deep personal

0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 4>connection usually resulting from you know, a very fond memory

0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:28.200
<v Speaker 4>of siblings against siblings, friends with friends or parents and

0:33:28.360 --> 0:33:30.120
<v Speaker 4>kids circling around a table.

0:33:31.240 --> 0:33:35.960
<v Speaker 3>You mentioned cultural moment. You know, I'm curious. Like last year,

0:33:36.120 --> 0:33:38.720
<v Speaker 3>I guess, uh, Mattel had that huge hit with the

0:33:38.760 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 3>Barbie movie. I know you have all this ip. Are

0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:45.719
<v Speaker 3>you doing anything similar in terms of sort of like

0:33:46.040 --> 0:33:49.800
<v Speaker 3>big like adult oriented movies around some of the brands

0:33:49.840 --> 0:33:52.480
<v Speaker 3>that you have within the broader Hasbro world?

0:33:52.800 --> 0:33:56.040
<v Speaker 4>Oh? Yeah, for sure. I think it last count Transformers

0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:59.400
<v Speaker 4>as a five billion dollar plus box office franchise. I

0:33:59.440 --> 0:34:02.440
<v Speaker 4>think it's in the top ten box office franchises of

0:34:02.480 --> 0:34:04.840
<v Speaker 4>all time. We have a new movie coming out in

0:34:04.880 --> 0:34:09.480
<v Speaker 4>September called Transformers One. It's the origin story of Optimus

0:34:09.560 --> 0:34:12.480
<v Speaker 4>Prime and Megatron back when they were friends as young

0:34:12.680 --> 0:34:17.520
<v Speaker 4>cogless robots on Cybertron and how the clash between them

0:34:17.560 --> 0:34:22.160
<v Speaker 4>and the Autobots and Decepticons emerged. Directed by Josh Cooley,

0:34:22.320 --> 0:34:24.959
<v Speaker 4>who I think did Toy Story three or Toy Story four.

0:34:25.520 --> 0:34:28.759
<v Speaker 4>And it's been getting really good feedback from things like

0:34:28.840 --> 0:34:31.520
<v Speaker 4>San Diego Comic Con. Fans are excited for it, and

0:34:31.520 --> 0:34:34.480
<v Speaker 4>we hope families will enjoy it too. And then we

0:34:34.560 --> 0:34:37.080
<v Speaker 4>have at last count I think we have thirty five

0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:40.680
<v Speaker 4>entertainment projects in development. You know, you brought up the

0:34:40.719 --> 0:34:45.560
<v Speaker 4>Barbie movie. Barbie herself is the executive producer of our

0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:49.360
<v Speaker 4>Monopoly movie with Lionsgate. We have a Clue movie.

0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:53.240
<v Speaker 3>And executive producer, yeah.

0:34:53.120 --> 0:34:56.960
<v Speaker 4>Margot Robbie's Lucky count.

0:34:58.520 --> 0:34:58.919
<v Speaker 2>The Doll.

0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:03.439
<v Speaker 4>Okay, we did release a version of Barbie Monopoly last

0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:06.200
<v Speaker 4>year and it was one of the most successful Monopoly

0:35:06.320 --> 0:35:08.880
<v Speaker 4>versions from last year. So there's a lot of tie ins.

0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:12.160
<v Speaker 4>So yeah, I mean we have a ton of content

0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:17.040
<v Speaker 4>coming out. You know, Transformers is probably the movie that

0:35:17.239 --> 0:35:21.000
<v Speaker 4>the toy industry kind of holds up as like great

0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:25.799
<v Speaker 4>synergies between selling product and creating a great story. You know,

0:35:26.080 --> 0:35:29.080
<v Speaker 4>last year with Transformers Rise of the Beast, we had

0:35:29.120 --> 0:35:33.440
<v Speaker 4>a ninety percent uplift in point of sale over like

0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:35.799
<v Speaker 4>the twelve weeks of the movie, and I think we

0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:39.120
<v Speaker 4>did something like thirty or forty percent pos point of

0:35:39.160 --> 0:35:42.680
<v Speaker 4>sale uplift during the whole year from that movie. So,

0:35:43.040 --> 0:35:45.719
<v Speaker 4>you know, Transformers movies aren't just fun. They sell a

0:35:45.760 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 4>lot of toys.

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:48.680
<v Speaker 3>By the way, Tracy, I see has Bro has the

0:35:48.719 --> 0:35:51.879
<v Speaker 3>ipated Gem, which I think could be a huge hit.

0:35:52.000 --> 0:35:53.640
<v Speaker 2>Wait, is this the old the old one from the

0:35:53.719 --> 0:35:54.560
<v Speaker 2>nineteen eighty Yeah.

0:35:54.719 --> 0:35:57.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, people will love a gym movie. Yeah. So

0:35:57.840 --> 0:35:59.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying I'm giving a free idea here.

0:36:00.000 --> 0:36:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Think there was a contempt I wanted to talk about AI,

0:36:04.160 --> 0:36:07.239
<v Speaker 2>and there's sort of two different paths we could go

0:36:07.280 --> 0:36:11.279
<v Speaker 2>down here, because number one, I know you're experimenting with

0:36:11.360 --> 0:36:17.000
<v Speaker 2>some AI based products, so like an AI driven Ouiji board,

0:36:17.040 --> 0:36:20.560
<v Speaker 2>which sounds kind of fun. And then on the other hand,

0:36:21.239 --> 0:36:24.320
<v Speaker 2>has Bro has got to be one of the biggest

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:28.480
<v Speaker 2>commissioners of like science fiction and fantasy art in the world,

0:36:28.600 --> 0:36:31.240
<v Speaker 2>and I know there's a lot of discussion nowadays about

0:36:31.280 --> 0:36:34.160
<v Speaker 2>how much of that is going to end up being

0:36:34.239 --> 0:36:37.400
<v Speaker 2>AI generated. And I believe you had a big round

0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:40.960
<v Speaker 2>of layoffs announced last year and they're probably still ongoing.

0:36:41.000 --> 0:36:43.319
<v Speaker 2>A lot of those were in the art department. So

0:36:43.360 --> 0:36:45.760
<v Speaker 2>can you talk to us about the impact of AI

0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:48.759
<v Speaker 2>on your business, both in terms of new products and

0:36:48.800 --> 0:36:52.520
<v Speaker 2>then also I guess how it would affect the art

0:36:52.800 --> 0:36:54.360
<v Speaker 2>of a lot of your games.

0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:57.719
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. Sure. Actually, just to correct it upfront, we are

0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:00.799
<v Speaker 4>going through a series of layoffs as part of restructuring

0:37:00.880 --> 0:37:06.200
<v Speaker 4>our toy and commercial organizations. But that's not affecting Wizards

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:09.640
<v Speaker 4>of the Coast. They had some modest impacts, but that

0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.920
<v Speaker 4>was actually mostly kind of the back office related roles.

0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:18.600
<v Speaker 4>We really prize design talent, art talent, and generally creativity.

0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:22.400
<v Speaker 4>It's what fuels our brands. We prize it both internally

0:37:22.440 --> 0:37:24.600
<v Speaker 4>in terms of the employees we have and the great

0:37:24.600 --> 0:37:27.319
<v Speaker 4>talent that we're able to attract to the company. And

0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:30.240
<v Speaker 4>we really prize it in terms of you know, really

0:37:30.280 --> 0:37:33.680
<v Speaker 4>the Triple A top shelf artists that we work with

0:37:34.040 --> 0:37:37.040
<v Speaker 4>both to help us drive concept art and new product development,

0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:39.719
<v Speaker 4>as well as all the art commissioning we do for

0:37:39.800 --> 0:37:43.320
<v Speaker 4>the thousands of new magic cards and D and D

0:37:43.880 --> 0:37:46.920
<v Speaker 4>books and imagery that we do every year. You know,

0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 4>I would say for AI, AI is a big topic,

0:37:50.920 --> 0:37:54.080
<v Speaker 4>like we could probably do like three or four podcasts

0:37:54.120 --> 0:37:57.160
<v Speaker 4>on that and its impacts on any given industry. I

0:37:57.200 --> 0:38:00.560
<v Speaker 4>suppose I'll start with the headline color Meia and AII optimist.

0:38:00.800 --> 0:38:03.839
<v Speaker 4>In terms of coming from the industry of play, it's

0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:09.440
<v Speaker 4>an incredibly playful, very high impact set of technologies that

0:38:09.600 --> 0:38:14.800
<v Speaker 4>really can light up the average player, the average fans.

0:38:14.920 --> 0:38:21.480
<v Speaker 4>Creativity really creates and enables amazing user generated content. And

0:38:21.520 --> 0:38:26.240
<v Speaker 4>as someone who builds games that really rely on storytelling,

0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:31.919
<v Speaker 4>that relies on an end user's creativity and people collaborating

0:38:31.960 --> 0:38:35.839
<v Speaker 4>around a table. I think there's really exciting possibilities for it.

0:38:36.320 --> 0:38:39.239
<v Speaker 4>You know. That said, we're in a lot of undiscovered

0:38:39.280 --> 0:38:42.360
<v Speaker 4>country as it relates to AI, and we have to

0:38:42.400 --> 0:38:46.960
<v Speaker 4>deploy it very, very responsibly and at a measured pace

0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:51.000
<v Speaker 4>because we got to make sure that creatives are paid

0:38:51.040 --> 0:38:54.480
<v Speaker 4>for their work. You know, we're a company that values creativity,

0:38:54.840 --> 0:38:59.080
<v Speaker 4>and therefore we value creatives. So we're thinking through, how

0:38:59.120 --> 0:39:03.839
<v Speaker 4>do we do this way that's ethical, that's responsible, that

0:39:04.360 --> 0:39:09.560
<v Speaker 4>gives voice actors, gives actors, gives artists, gives writers their

0:39:09.640 --> 0:39:12.799
<v Speaker 4>fair shake inside of it. And you know, I think

0:39:12.800 --> 0:39:14.399
<v Speaker 4>it's going to take us a little bit of time

0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:16.439
<v Speaker 4>and the industry as a whole to figure it out.

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:19.879
<v Speaker 4>But I'm pleased with how we're going about it. I'm

0:39:19.880 --> 0:39:23.480
<v Speaker 4>sure there'll be instances where you know, we have to

0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:27.759
<v Speaker 4>police things carefully. You know, you'll see AI pop up

0:39:27.760 --> 0:39:31.319
<v Speaker 4>in art now and then that's not something that we're

0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:35.000
<v Speaker 4>doing by design. It's something that just happens when you

0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:37.719
<v Speaker 4>work with hundreds of different artists who have different kind

0:39:37.719 --> 0:39:42.000
<v Speaker 4>of motivations and different kind of thoughts on things. Generally speaking,

0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:46.319
<v Speaker 4>in our finished products, everything will be human created and

0:39:46.480 --> 0:39:51.680
<v Speaker 4>human finished. However, when we think about AI enabled tools

0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:56.040
<v Speaker 4>that kind of bring fun to life and it enables

0:39:56.120 --> 0:39:59.200
<v Speaker 4>users to be able to create things, sure, I think

0:39:59.280 --> 0:40:03.799
<v Speaker 4>we will use our art, we will use ORIP, and

0:40:03.840 --> 0:40:06.680
<v Speaker 4>we will try to use that to create ethically trained

0:40:07.080 --> 0:40:11.240
<v Speaker 4>art and ethically trained AI tools that kind of bring

0:40:11.400 --> 0:40:14.600
<v Speaker 4>imaginations to life. You know, if I just look at

0:40:14.640 --> 0:40:16.479
<v Speaker 4>like my own D and D groups, and I play

0:40:16.480 --> 0:40:19.200
<v Speaker 4>in three different D and D groups, nice, I can't

0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:22.440
<v Speaker 4>tell you a single person around the table who doesn't

0:40:22.560 --> 0:40:26.040
<v Speaker 4>use AI in some way, shape or form to help

0:40:26.080 --> 0:40:31.160
<v Speaker 4>either craft their character, help inspire an adventure, bring imagery

0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:35.000
<v Speaker 4>and audio to life. And so you know, if that's

0:40:35.080 --> 0:40:38.560
<v Speaker 4>just my little kind of ballpark of twenty or thirty

0:40:38.560 --> 0:40:41.720
<v Speaker 4>players that I play with on the regular, I'm sure

0:40:41.800 --> 0:40:45.200
<v Speaker 4>that's happening across the vast tens of millions of people

0:40:45.239 --> 0:40:48.239
<v Speaker 4>who play the game. And so when your users are

0:40:48.280 --> 0:40:51.279
<v Speaker 4>telling you that they're using a tool and that they're

0:40:51.400 --> 0:40:54.040
<v Speaker 4>valuing it, I think you have to take notice and

0:40:54.080 --> 0:40:55.600
<v Speaker 4>you have to figure out how to harness it.

0:40:56.000 --> 0:40:59.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh this reminds me, actually, I remember hearing about the

0:41:00.120 --> 0:41:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Open gaming license controversy for Dungeons and Dragons, and there

0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.279
<v Speaker 2>was a lot of debate and a lot of outrage

0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.680
<v Speaker 2>initially about some of the changes you were proposing. But

0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:13.839
<v Speaker 2>since we're on the topic of you know, user generated

0:41:13.960 --> 0:41:17.560
<v Speaker 2>content and Dungeons and Dragons is famous for the amount

0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:20.800
<v Speaker 2>of participation that gamers actually have, and that talked to

0:41:20.920 --> 0:41:23.920
<v Speaker 2>us about how that controversy, like, what were the lessons

0:41:24.040 --> 0:41:26.560
<v Speaker 2>learned from that and how did it all end, because

0:41:26.600 --> 0:41:28.920
<v Speaker 2>I think it's been resolved somewhat at this point.

0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:31.000
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I mean that was about a year and a

0:41:31.000 --> 0:41:35.000
<v Speaker 4>half ago, and that was a serious case of foot

0:41:35.000 --> 0:41:38.120
<v Speaker 4>and mouth disease. From our perspective, we did it wrong

0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:42.239
<v Speaker 4>and we apologized and I think we quickly made amends.

0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 4>I think where we were coming from on that whole

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:47.640
<v Speaker 4>thing and the Open Game License, for people who don't

0:41:47.719 --> 0:41:50.880
<v Speaker 4>know it, was something that was established about twenty ish

0:41:50.960 --> 0:41:54.680
<v Speaker 4>years ago that basically opens up the rule set and

0:41:54.719 --> 0:41:58.400
<v Speaker 4>some of the core content for Dungeons and Dragons to

0:41:58.600 --> 0:42:01.839
<v Speaker 4>create a lingu of frame, a rule set and set

0:42:01.840 --> 0:42:04.480
<v Speaker 4>of content for people to be able to play tabletop

0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:07.840
<v Speaker 4>role playing games. So what we were trying to do is.

0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:10.759
<v Speaker 4>We were trying to evolve it because a document that

0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:14.360
<v Speaker 4>was created in two thousand and two didn't foresee the

0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:18.080
<v Speaker 4>rise of video games, it didn't foresee the rise of

0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:22.320
<v Speaker 4>AI tools, it didn't foresee even things like content streaming.

0:42:23.200 --> 0:42:28.279
<v Speaker 4>So our goal there was to try to protect an

0:42:28.360 --> 0:42:30.880
<v Speaker 4>end user's ability to be able to make content and

0:42:30.920 --> 0:42:34.840
<v Speaker 4>have fun, and a creator's ability to create content and

0:42:34.920 --> 0:42:37.400
<v Speaker 4>be able to make a living off of it, while

0:42:37.640 --> 0:42:41.879
<v Speaker 4>preventing kind of like a quick serve restaurant from using

0:42:41.960 --> 0:42:45.480
<v Speaker 4>the D and D brand to sell tacos, or a

0:42:45.520 --> 0:42:48.080
<v Speaker 4>big video game company to be able to create a

0:42:48.160 --> 0:42:52.279
<v Speaker 4>video game using the IP in a way that wasn't

0:42:52.320 --> 0:42:56.320
<v Speaker 4>fair to us as the kind of quote unquote brand owners,

0:42:56.800 --> 0:42:59.480
<v Speaker 4>or maybe do something that we didn't necessarily like with

0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:03.120
<v Speaker 4>the brand, or had content that was inappropriate, which happens

0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:06.560
<v Speaker 4>when you have tons of millions of users making content.

0:43:06.960 --> 0:43:10.520
<v Speaker 4>I think we found a fair and equitable solution to it.

0:43:10.600 --> 0:43:13.560
<v Speaker 4>You know, if anything, we embraced open source even more.

0:43:14.160 --> 0:43:18.080
<v Speaker 4>We also are opening up our own distribution platforms like

0:43:18.160 --> 0:43:22.120
<v Speaker 4>D and D Beyond to you know, create marketplaces where

0:43:22.160 --> 0:43:24.680
<v Speaker 4>more and more creators and more and more users can

0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:28.880
<v Speaker 4>be able to share their content and hopefully, you know,

0:43:28.960 --> 0:43:31.719
<v Speaker 4>make a nice living off of their content. I think

0:43:31.760 --> 0:43:33.759
<v Speaker 4>you're going to see more and more from that from

0:43:33.840 --> 0:43:37.239
<v Speaker 4>us in terms of how we expand that marketplace opportunity

0:43:37.760 --> 0:43:39.839
<v Speaker 4>and how we think about new ways that they can

0:43:39.880 --> 0:43:43.960
<v Speaker 4>create content, for instance, on something we're calling a virtual tabletop,

0:43:44.400 --> 0:43:48.839
<v Speaker 4>which is an Unreal Engine five powered kind of like sandbox,

0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:51.920
<v Speaker 4>where you can build full three D models of like

0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:58.040
<v Speaker 4>miniatures and buildings and special effects. And you know, I

0:43:58.040 --> 0:44:01.040
<v Speaker 4>think that'll be a wonderful opportunity for people and really

0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:04.200
<v Speaker 4>leverage kind of the legacy of the OGL in a

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:05.839
<v Speaker 4>positive and new way.

0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:09.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh that sounds really fun. What are your favorite games

0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:12.080
<v Speaker 2>to play? Give us some recommendations, and they don't all

0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:14.759
<v Speaker 2>have to be from the Hawsbro universe, but you know,

0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:16.839
<v Speaker 2>having spoken to you, it sounds like a lot of them.

0:44:16.760 --> 0:44:21.040
<v Speaker 4>Are fortunately, many, many, many of them are well. Certainly,

0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:23.520
<v Speaker 4>if you're into role playing games and you haven't played

0:44:23.520 --> 0:44:26.960
<v Speaker 4>Balder's Gate three, that's a seminal role playing game. It

0:44:27.080 --> 0:44:30.239
<v Speaker 4>won I think it swept all of the major Game

0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:32.720
<v Speaker 4>of the Year awards. It swept all of the major

0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:35.400
<v Speaker 4>role playing Game of the Year awards, and it's just

0:44:35.440 --> 0:44:37.880
<v Speaker 4>a fabulous game from our partners with Larry, and I

0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:40.200
<v Speaker 4>think they hit a home run on that. I obviously

0:44:40.280 --> 0:44:42.439
<v Speaker 4>think Monopoly Go is a lot of fun, and there's

0:44:42.440 --> 0:44:45.400
<v Speaker 4>several hundred million people who agree with me, so I

0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:47.719
<v Speaker 4>think if you're looking for something to tick some time

0:44:47.760 --> 0:44:50.080
<v Speaker 4>away on your subway commute, that one's a lot of

0:44:50.080 --> 0:44:52.960
<v Speaker 4>fun as well. I'm kind of a hardcore, crunchy gamer,

0:44:53.000 --> 0:44:56.200
<v Speaker 4>I think you can tell based on my answers and

0:44:56.239 --> 0:44:59.000
<v Speaker 4>a little bit nerdy, but actually my favorite game is Scrabble,

0:44:59.600 --> 0:45:03.080
<v Speaker 4>so I really enjoy playing that. And I suppose if

0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:06.120
<v Speaker 4>I was going to pick a competitors game, what's a

0:45:06.160 --> 0:45:10.880
<v Speaker 4>fun game that I play with my family from a competitor,

0:45:11.040 --> 0:45:15.000
<v Speaker 4>so I will pick two. If you're a little nerdy

0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:18.080
<v Speaker 4>and want a fun kind of D and D light experience,

0:45:18.800 --> 0:45:23.600
<v Speaker 4>Munchkin is probably one of my family's favorite games that

0:45:23.640 --> 0:45:26.279
<v Speaker 4>has a very Monopoly esque kind of vibe to it,

0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:29.640
<v Speaker 4>where you're in coopetition trying to be the first tiny

0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:33.400
<v Speaker 4>creature to complete a dungeon and power yourselves up, and

0:45:33.440 --> 0:45:36.760
<v Speaker 4>then of course ultimately the other players who've been helping

0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:38.640
<v Speaker 4>you stabs you in the back at the end to

0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:42.120
<v Speaker 4>prevent you from Being First, and then another family favorite,

0:45:42.160 --> 0:45:45.080
<v Speaker 4>this one I think is from Asmodi out of Europe

0:45:45.360 --> 0:45:47.839
<v Speaker 4>is Ticket to Ride. That's just a really fun kind

0:45:47.840 --> 0:45:50.319
<v Speaker 4>of travel themed game where you become kind of a

0:45:50.400 --> 0:45:52.520
<v Speaker 4>railroad tycoon. So that's a fun one too.

0:45:52.880 --> 0:45:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh, both of these sound amazing. Sorry, I'm looking them

0:45:55.520 --> 0:45:58.960
<v Speaker 2>up as you speak. That sounds great, okay, Chris Cox,

0:45:59.000 --> 0:46:01.120
<v Speaker 2>the CEO of hasan Bro, thank you so much for

0:46:01.160 --> 0:46:02.000
<v Speaker 2>coming on of those.

0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:16.560
<v Speaker 4>Hey, thank you so much for having me, Joe.

0:46:16.600 --> 0:46:18.680
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was a fun conversation. I just like

0:46:18.760 --> 0:46:19.720
<v Speaker 2>talking about games.

0:46:19.880 --> 0:46:22.719
<v Speaker 3>Really, Tracy, are you ever going to invite me to

0:46:22.760 --> 0:46:25.560
<v Speaker 3>one of your game made ups out up in Connecticut?

0:46:25.680 --> 0:46:26.120
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:46:27.840 --> 0:46:30.200
<v Speaker 2>I would love you to come play board games, Joe.

0:46:30.680 --> 0:46:33.279
<v Speaker 3>Really, yeah, okay, I'll come out. What game are we

0:46:33.280 --> 0:46:33.799
<v Speaker 3>going to play?

0:46:33.880 --> 0:46:34.080
<v Speaker 4>Oh?

0:46:34.200 --> 0:46:37.520
<v Speaker 2>You know, this isn't really a board game per se,

0:46:37.560 --> 0:46:39.480
<v Speaker 2>but I would love to play Avalon with you. I

0:46:39.480 --> 0:46:41.160
<v Speaker 2>think you'd be good at it. Okay, this is the

0:46:41.160 --> 0:46:43.960
<v Speaker 2>one where you basically lie to your friends and annoy

0:46:44.120 --> 0:46:44.920
<v Speaker 2>everyone that you know.

0:46:45.200 --> 0:46:48.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm done with that. So, in all seriousness, it is

0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:51.560
<v Speaker 3>interesting to think about game. You know, people are always

0:46:51.600 --> 0:46:54.000
<v Speaker 3>talking about, Oh, we want like real world connection. If

0:46:54.040 --> 0:46:56.719
<v Speaker 3>it's like oh third Spaces and all this stuff. It

0:46:56.880 --> 0:47:00.239
<v Speaker 3>is interesting to think like games are a little little

0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:03.080
<v Speaker 3>bit unique in that respect in which there is this

0:47:03.160 --> 0:47:07.920
<v Speaker 3>sort of like in person put down the phone community event,

0:47:08.080 --> 0:47:10.120
<v Speaker 3>Like there's you know, people play games on their phone,

0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:12.680
<v Speaker 3>people play them on their computers. But there is something

0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:15.440
<v Speaker 3>like powerful about a board game from a sort of

0:47:15.760 --> 0:47:17.000
<v Speaker 3>social perspective. Oh.

0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:20.279
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. And I have to say board game cafes, of

0:47:20.360 --> 0:47:23.200
<v Speaker 2>which there seem to be there are more of those

0:47:23.239 --> 0:47:26.200
<v Speaker 2>in New York than there used to be. Those are fantastic,

0:47:26.480 --> 0:47:29.600
<v Speaker 2>like spaces just to socialize. I love going to those.

0:47:30.040 --> 0:47:32.640
<v Speaker 2>The other thing that I thought was really interesting was

0:47:32.800 --> 0:47:36.160
<v Speaker 2>the discussion about AI generated Arn't and the sort of

0:47:36.200 --> 0:47:39.640
<v Speaker 2>balancing act there also kind of funny to discuss that

0:47:39.719 --> 0:47:44.240
<v Speaker 2>in the context of the Dungeons and Dragons licensing controversy.

0:47:44.680 --> 0:47:47.480
<v Speaker 3>Also, I thought it was interesting and I was a

0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:50.239
<v Speaker 3>little bit had my mind blown that when Chris was

0:47:50.239 --> 0:47:52.800
<v Speaker 3>talking about his own gaming community and coming up with

0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:56.280
<v Speaker 3>the stories that every single one of them is using

0:47:56.320 --> 0:47:59.520
<v Speaker 3>AI for that purpose. Yeah, which, I you know, you

0:47:59.520 --> 0:48:02.320
<v Speaker 3>figure out some people when they're like developing a story

0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:04.000
<v Speaker 3>or going to use it. But the fact that's like

0:48:04.040 --> 0:48:06.520
<v Speaker 3>one hundred percent of his community is doing that is

0:48:06.560 --> 0:48:07.360
<v Speaker 3>pretty powerful.

0:48:07.440 --> 0:48:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, and also like how do businesses even start to

0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:13.680
<v Speaker 2>take that into account? And Chris mentioned this, but the

0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:17.200
<v Speaker 2>idea that like, Okay, you're working with hundreds, if not thousands,

0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:20.799
<v Speaker 2>of different artists, some of them might be using AI, right,

0:48:20.840 --> 0:48:22.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, you can ask them maybe to sign a

0:48:22.440 --> 0:48:26.200
<v Speaker 2>disclosure or something like that, But it seems like you're

0:48:26.239 --> 0:48:28.960
<v Speaker 2>never going to be able to like police it entirely

0:48:29.000 --> 0:48:30.839
<v Speaker 2>because people are using it as a tool.

0:48:31.520 --> 0:48:34.120
<v Speaker 3>By the way, can I just say, like, I feel

0:48:34.120 --> 0:48:37.760
<v Speaker 3>if the CEO of Hasbro plays Monopoly on cheat mode

0:48:38.040 --> 0:48:40.520
<v Speaker 3>where he's like adding in a little Lextra house to

0:48:40.560 --> 0:48:43.840
<v Speaker 3>a property surreptitiously, or taking one hundred dollars from the

0:48:43.880 --> 0:48:46.799
<v Speaker 3>bank or doing the free parking stuff, I feel like

0:48:46.840 --> 0:48:48.799
<v Speaker 3>that's a license for all of us to cheat.

0:48:48.840 --> 0:48:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Or should buy the actual Monopoly Cheaters edition, which sounds

0:48:52.440 --> 0:48:52.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of fun.

0:48:53.120 --> 0:48:55.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but it's more fun if you're not supposed to

0:48:55.160 --> 0:48:57.600
<v Speaker 3>cheat and you actually do it, right. But I was

0:48:57.920 --> 0:48:59.960
<v Speaker 3>I was actually kind of flabbergasted. I thought he would

0:49:00.120 --> 0:49:02.160
<v Speaker 3>be a very like strict, you know, by the book

0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:03.960
<v Speaker 3>type when it came to gameplay.

0:49:04.080 --> 0:49:06.080
<v Speaker 2>Maybe this is the way to play it, to just

0:49:06.200 --> 0:49:08.759
<v Speaker 2>make it as chaotic as possible. I mean, it sounds

0:49:08.800 --> 0:49:10.520
<v Speaker 2>like that's what Monopoly Go is doing.

0:49:10.440 --> 0:49:12.719
<v Speaker 3>And it sounds like that's really a big part of

0:49:12.719 --> 0:49:13.560
<v Speaker 3>the fun for people.

0:49:13.760 --> 0:49:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Cush.

0:49:14.200 --> 0:49:17.319
<v Speaker 2>There's a Chance edition of Monopoly as well. Sorry, I'm

0:49:17.360 --> 0:49:20.640
<v Speaker 2>just flicking through all the different Monopoly editions again. The

0:49:20.640 --> 0:49:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Monopoly Chance game is the high stakes card flipping version

0:49:24.200 --> 0:49:27.160
<v Speaker 2>of the Monopoly game, and it only takes twenty minutes

0:49:27.200 --> 0:49:27.680
<v Speaker 2>to play.

0:49:28.000 --> 0:49:31.120
<v Speaker 3>That would be nice because I would play more Monopoly.

0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:32.800
<v Speaker 2>If it didn't take like two hours.

0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:34.920
<v Speaker 3>The thing. It's a pretty big time investment in game

0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:35.520
<v Speaker 3>of Monopoly.

0:49:35.719 --> 0:49:37.400
<v Speaker 2>I need to tell you about the time I was

0:49:37.400 --> 0:49:39.879
<v Speaker 2>in Guatemala and I got caught up in a game

0:49:39.920 --> 0:49:42.359
<v Speaker 2>of risk that went on, I kid you not for

0:49:42.440 --> 0:49:43.920
<v Speaker 2>twelve hours all night.

0:49:44.719 --> 0:49:46.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm not forward to hearing this story.

0:49:46.440 --> 0:49:50.280
<v Speaker 2>I was trying to extricate myself for hours by losing

0:49:50.400 --> 0:49:53.360
<v Speaker 2>and it didn't work, and for various reasons, I couldn't

0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:56.680
<v Speaker 2>just walk away from the table anyway. Story for another day.

0:49:56.719 --> 0:49:57.440
<v Speaker 2>Shall we leave it there.

0:49:57.560 --> 0:49:58.200
<v Speaker 3>Let's leave it there.

0:49:58.440 --> 0:50:01.439
<v Speaker 2>This has been another episode of Odd Thlots podcast. I'm

0:50:01.480 --> 0:50:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway.

0:50:04.120 --> 0:50:06.840
<v Speaker 3>And I'm Jill Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart.

0:50:07.080 --> 0:50:10.480
<v Speaker 3>Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at Carmen Arman, dash Ol

0:50:10.480 --> 0:50:13.880
<v Speaker 3>Bennett at Dashbott and Kelbrooks at Kelbrooks. Thank you to

0:50:13.920 --> 0:50:17.040
<v Speaker 3>our producer Moses Ondam. For more Oddlaws content, go to

0:50:17.080 --> 0:50:20.200
<v Speaker 3>Bloomberg dot com slash odlots, where you have transcripts, a blog,

0:50:20.239 --> 0:50:22.520
<v Speaker 3>and a newsletter and you can chat about all of

0:50:22.560 --> 0:50:25.719
<v Speaker 3>these topics with fellow listeners twenty four to seven in

0:50:25.840 --> 0:50:29.240
<v Speaker 3>the discord discord dot gg slash odlots. I am certain

0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:32.360
<v Speaker 3>that there are many games players in there for sure.

0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:34.520
<v Speaker 2>And if you enjoy all thoughts, If you like it

0:50:34.560 --> 0:50:37.160
<v Speaker 2>when we do these gaming episodes, then please leave us

0:50:37.239 --> 0:50:41.360
<v Speaker 2>a positive review on your favorite podcast platform. And remember,

0:50:41.440 --> 0:50:43.799
<v Speaker 2>if you are a Bloomberg subscriber, you can listen to

0:50:43.960 --> 0:50:47.080
<v Speaker 2>all of our episodes absolutely ad free. All you need

0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:50.120
<v Speaker 2>to do is connect to your Bloomberg account with Apple Podcasts.

0:50:50.360 --> 0:50:53.080
<v Speaker 2>In order to do that, just go on Apple Podcasts,

0:50:53.160 --> 0:50:56.600
<v Speaker 2>find the Bloomberg channel and follow the instructions there. Thanks

0:50:56.640 --> 0:51:15.160
<v Speaker 2>for listening it in