Speaker 1: Ruby.
Speaker 2: We know that we have the toolkit to help a
Speaker 2: podcast network or an individual podcast succeed through marketing and
Speaker 2: the megaphone that we have here at iHeart, But we
Speaker 2: also know we want to invest in and believe in
Speaker 2: creators to see through their vision. We've tried to do
Speaker 2: that with so many others, whether that's with Bloomberg and business,
Speaker 2: Will Ferrell and comedy, Shonda Rhimes in the creative space,
Speaker 2: the NFL, or NBA, and sports.
Speaker 1: Our job is to help these.
Speaker 2: Great organizations and creators bring these ideas to life. So
Speaker 2: it's been fun to be able to organize that way.
Speaker 2: We don't always get it right, but in its best execution,
Speaker 2: that's the way we try to organize.
Speaker 3: We just heard from Will Pearson, the president of the
Speaker 3: iHeart podcast network, where he's responsible for the growth strategy
Speaker 3: of Iheart's original podcast content, which can't be an easy job,
Speaker 3: especially as we're entering a more crowded marketplace for podcasting.
Speaker 3: Well hear how Will and his team managed to make
Speaker 3: iHeart stand down to consumers and how the company has
Speaker 3: become revolutionary with their podcast advertising strategy and Iheart's commitment
Speaker 3: to giving creatives the space and resources they need to
Speaker 3: share important stories. This is leading by example, executives making
Speaker 3: an impact. I'm furnished to Robbie and I'm excited.
Speaker 4: To take this journey with you as your host.
Speaker 3: I know what you might be thinking, but this is
Speaker 3: not just another interview podcast about founders and CEOs. We're
Speaker 3: going past the pr and into the personal stuff and
Speaker 3: how their lived experiences shape leadership. The workplace, as you know,
Speaker 3: is going through a massive transformation. Everything from how we
Speaker 3: define work life balance to what we expect from our
Speaker 3: leaders and companies is evolving in front of us in
Speaker 3: real time. And my goal with this podcast is to
Speaker 3: bring you real guidance, actionable insights, and the truth about
Speaker 3: the roles we can all play in shaping the future
Speaker 3: of work. I tell you this is a front row
Speaker 3: seat behind the scenes to innovation and strong leadership across industries,
Speaker 3: and that is certainly in the case with our first guest,
Speaker 3: Will Pearson. Will's career began in his dorm room at
Speaker 3: Duke University, where he co founded the digital media publication
Speaker 3: Mental Flaws. It started as a campus magazine and as
Speaker 3: journey led him to How Stuff Works, hosting the Part
Speaker 3: Time Genius podcast and launching some of today's most innovative
Speaker 3: podcast slates. Will Pearson, Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thanks for noush. It's good to be with you.
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to hearing so much about your career,
Speaker 3: come up ins, your influence in the media world. But first,
Speaker 3: I just want to know what you were like as
Speaker 3: a kid. Were there inklings of the empire you were
Speaker 3: going to build as a young one?
Speaker 4: Is there a.
Speaker 3: Story that captures even if it's just like the curiosity
Speaker 3: that you had. Because I find you to be a
Speaker 3: very curious person, I don't think it's inconsequential who we become.
Speaker 2: So I would say the early part of my career
Speaker 2: probably could have been predicted because I was a list
Speaker 2: maker an organizer, and I don't know why. I love
Speaker 2: learning things and then I loved being able to compile
Speaker 2: those in my own organized way. So it was this
Speaker 2: combination of I suppose, curiosity and OCD that led me
Speaker 2: to create these files.
Speaker 1: And I'm not even kidding when I say this.
Speaker 2: I had files in a desk at my house when
Speaker 2: I was like ten years old, where it'd be like
Speaker 2: the interesting history facts that I've learned, the interesting science
Speaker 2: facts that I've learned whatever it may have been, but
Speaker 2: I just loved consuming this knowledge. I didn't exactly know why.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what I was going to do with
Speaker 2: it. It eventually paid off in some way with the first
Speaker 2: business we started out of college. But I guess that
Speaker 2: would have been an early hint that this might have
Speaker 2: been a path for me.
Speaker 3: You kind of were into executive functioning before it was
Speaker 3: age appropriate.
Speaker 1: H Yeah, So fast.
Speaker 4: Forward to Duke.
Speaker 3: Now you're at Duke University and you get an idea
Speaker 3: to start I guess a magazine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3: Was it always the intention was to start this magazine
Speaker 3: that would have a life beyond college?
Speaker 2: It was we didn't necessarily communicate that. So there was
Speaker 2: a young man by the name of mungesh A Ticketer.
Speaker 2: The two of us were classmates together. We'd known each
Speaker 2: other since our first year at Duke, and in the evenings,
Speaker 2: groups of friends would sort of crowd into one room
Speaker 2: and just kind of hang out and start talking about
Speaker 2: things that we may have heard in a class. Again,
Speaker 2: maybe one more hint that we were just a little
Speaker 2: bit on the nerdy side. But we would get together
Speaker 2: in our dorm rooms and just talk about things that
Speaker 2: were of venturous to us, and this idea came up
Speaker 2: that one person in the room might be an astronomy major,
Speaker 2: another person in the room is an econ major, and
Speaker 2: another person in the room is a literature major. And
Speaker 2: the idea that we could each learn a little bit
Speaker 2: from each other is really what inspired the idea for
Speaker 2: the magazine Mental Flaws. The whole concept was, how wouldn't
Speaker 2: it be great to be able to learn a little
Speaker 2: bit from every single one of these departments here on campus.
Speaker 2: You're at a liberal arts institution celebrating general knowledge. Let's
Speaker 2: come up with a way that people can learn a
Speaker 2: little bit of everything, but also blend it with entertainment
Speaker 2: and trivia, so that every time you experience an issue
Speaker 2: of the magazine, you'd walk away feeling a little bit smarter,
Speaker 2: but with a smile on your face. And so we
Speaker 2: started it there and distributed a couple of issues on
Speaker 2: campus at Duke, and then decided to take it outside
Speaker 2: of Duke as well. Of course, we had no idea,
Speaker 2: We had no background in the publishing industry in any
Speaker 2: sort of meaningful way, and I honestly think that's part
Speaker 2: of why it worked.
Speaker 1: You know, we were too naive and too.
Speaker 2: Young to know the rules of the publishing industry and
Speaker 2: how hard it was to start a magazine's supposed to
Speaker 2: think about it. We launched in two thousand and one,
Speaker 2: not exactly the best time to be launching any business,
Speaker 2: much less a magazine, but it was something we felt
Speaker 2: very strongly about.
Speaker 4: So pretty quickly.
Speaker 3: It sounds that when you started Mental Floss at Duke
Speaker 3: it got a great reception. It seemed like there's a
Speaker 3: business here. At what point did you realize I want
Speaker 3: to do this professionally beyond college? Were there are other
Speaker 3: pathways you considered, other career routes you considered?
Speaker 2: There were none that were super clear. I didn't know
Speaker 2: exactly what I wanted to do. I was a history major,
Speaker 2: so I think my only options were to go into
Speaker 2: academia or start my own thing. Right but now, and
Speaker 2: I don't really feel that way. I'm a big proponent
Speaker 2: of a liberal arts education. But I guess it was
Speaker 2: in my third year, my junior year at Duke, when
Speaker 2: we started this and really knew the path was, let's
Speaker 2: try to take this beyond the campus and make this
Speaker 2: our full time gigs. Of course, what it meant at
Speaker 2: that point was just getting this off the ground, working
Speaker 2: part time jobs while still in college and just doing
Speaker 2: whatever we could to make some extra money to get
Speaker 2: things started.
Speaker 3: What did those early days teach you about leadership?
Speaker 4: Did you consider yourself.
Speaker 3: A CEO or a leader at that point or you
Speaker 3: just kind of like a builder and an engineer and
Speaker 3: wearing all the.
Speaker 2: Hats a little bit more of the ladder. I was
Speaker 2: running the team, but at the same time was a
Speaker 2: very small team at that point. But I think that
Speaker 2: was such a critical moment for learning at that stage.
Speaker 2: You know, it's funny to think back about the designing
Speaker 2: and the creation of some of those first issues, because
Speaker 2: fast forwarding to this point, anybody that wants to create
Speaker 2: a magazine or design something has all the tools on
Speaker 2: their computer. At that point, though there were no joke
Speaker 2: like five computers on campus that had the right tools
Speaker 2: to design a magazine. There are plenty of computers, but
Speaker 2: the ones that had the actual programs to be able
Speaker 2: to design a magazine. And so there were other campus
Speaker 2: publications and you'd have to sign up for time slots,
Speaker 2: and so we would sign up for these time slots
Speaker 2: in the student center that might be like eleven pm
Speaker 2: to three am, because that's when we could all get together.
Speaker 2: And even though I wasn't the designer of the magazine,
Speaker 2: I think one of the early lessons was learning the
Speaker 2: importance of being present and being present during difficult times
Speaker 2: and being present when the hard work is being done.
Speaker 2: And so we would of course have all of these
Speaker 2: articles that were submitted in all the content that was
Speaker 2: coming together, and then it was time to be able
Speaker 2: to sit down together and decide what was going on
Speaker 2: what page and how the design was looking. And I
Speaker 2: felt that it was important for both of us from
Speaker 2: Ungesh and for myself to be there during that time,
Speaker 2: even if we weren't guiding where every article was going.
Speaker 2: There was something about that, and I think it was
Speaker 2: an early lesson learned and I saw it in other mentors,
Speaker 2: and so I've tried to carry that forward to be
Speaker 2: present when our teams are dealing with difficult challenges, even
Speaker 2: if I'm not always the one that's making the ultimate
Speaker 2: decision on those things.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a sense of accountability and I think that
Speaker 3: is really appreciated from everybody else on the team because
Speaker 3: we tend to work in silos and well, it wasn't
Speaker 3: my job, and that wasn't my job, right, That's right.
Speaker 4: You also hit the jackpot in mangesh.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: You know, it's one thing to have a good roommate
Speaker 3: that's hard enough in college, or a friend, but that
Speaker 3: he ended up also being a really great business partner
Speaker 3: and a co pilot. Looking back, maybe only in hindsight, now,
Speaker 3: you know what made that relationship really click.
Speaker 1: Well, first of all, it was a friendship.
Speaker 2: We had a couple of mutual friends early in college
Speaker 2: and that really brought us more closely together. But then
Speaker 2: I think it was the recognition of complimentary skill sets.
Speaker 2: You know, he's one of the most creative people I've
Speaker 2: ever been around, and you really want to find in
Speaker 2: a business partner somebody that compliments your strengths and helps
Speaker 2: make up for your weaknesses, and I think we did
Speaker 2: that for each other. You know, he brought the incredible
Speaker 2: creativity and then just the ability to have.
Speaker 1: A vision for what we were trying to create.
Speaker 2: And I was more on the strategy side and more
Speaker 2: on the pow are we actually going to get out
Speaker 2: on the world and build this? And how are we
Speaker 2: going to communicate about this? One of the best ways
Speaker 2: to illustrate. This was even the name itself when we
Speaker 2: were trying to think of the name of this magazine,
Speaker 2: and I bet it came up with more than one
Speaker 2: hundred terrible names until he just said, why don't we
Speaker 2: call it Mental Flaws. And on the one hand, you
Speaker 2: just want to celebrate that, because that was exactly what
Speaker 2: what it needed to be called, because it sounded smart,
Speaker 2: It sounded like something that celebrated knowledge, but also communicated
Speaker 2: that it didn't take itself too seriously, that it was playful,
Speaker 2: and so there was something about that that was both
Speaker 2: exciting and also just really frustrating to know that on
Speaker 2: one of his first tries he was like, you know what,
Speaker 2: this is what we should call it, stroke of genius,
Speaker 2: and that's just what he does time and again. So yeah,
Speaker 2: we worked together at Mental Floss all the way through
Speaker 2: selling the magazine I guess that was in twenty eleven
Speaker 2: to Dennis Publishing out of the UK, and stayed on
Speaker 2: to continue working there for a few more years.
Speaker 3: You left Mental Floss to pursue podcasting in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 3: still very early days of this medium. What was it
Speaker 3: about podcasting that excited you, that made you think there
Speaker 3: is something here, and I think there's even some staying
Speaker 3: power because a little fun fact and you know this,
Speaker 3: but maybe our audience doesn't. But podcasting in twenty seventeen
Speaker 3: was sort of podcasting two point zero. There was an
Speaker 3: initial era of podcasting before or the iPhone came to
Speaker 3: the scene, and it was sort of native to the iPod,
Speaker 3: but it was so converse and we had to download
Speaker 3: it before you left work to listen to it.
Speaker 4: On the subway.
Speaker 3: It didn't take right, but it wasn't until like streaming
Speaker 3: and Wi Fi became more ubiquitous that podcasting two point
Speaker 3: zero kind of took off. And that's when you arrived
Speaker 3: on the scene and now you thought, this is the moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was still in that early stage, and
Speaker 2: that's what was most appealing to us. You know, when
Speaker 2: we were at Mental Floss and when we sold it
Speaker 2: in twenty eleven, we had said to ourselves, you know, look,
Speaker 2: we want to stay here as long as it feels
Speaker 2: like a startup, as long as it feels like we
Speaker 2: are building a thing that is in.
Speaker 1: The entrepreneurship phase.
Speaker 2: Once that stops and once a business is in sort
Speaker 2: of maintenance or slow growth mode, we'd probably be ready
Speaker 2: to move on to the next thing, and that moment
Speaker 2: started to come in about twenty fifteen or so, and
Speaker 2: then we started having conversations with how Stuff Works or
Speaker 2: Stuff Media about the possibility of leaving to come on
Speaker 2: board and start a podcast, but really with the bigger
Speaker 2: goal of helping them spin off from their parent company
Speaker 2: and see what we could do with it as a
Speaker 2: podcast company. Here's a super interesting company and how Stuff Works,
Speaker 2: which by coincidence, most of their subject matter was very
Speaker 2: complimentary and in alignment with what we were doing at
Speaker 2: Mental Floss with shows like stuff you should know, Stuff
Speaker 2: you missed in history class, tech stuff, and we thought,
Speaker 2: you know, we can combine two things here, one the
Speaker 2: background that we have in these creation of general knowledge products,
Speaker 2: but to this idea of being able to jump in
Speaker 2: into a very young space and see what can happen.
Speaker 2: And I guess it was about a year and a
Speaker 2: half later with the team there, we were able to
Speaker 2: sell How Stuff Works to iHeart.
Speaker 3: And now a really big playing field at iHeart you
Speaker 3: have launched many amazing programming there and I'm just curious,
Speaker 3: you said, you like sort of like the startup, You're
Speaker 3: like a startup leader. You like that playing field, and
Speaker 3: now you're at a bigger company like iHeart. What's your
Speaker 3: approach to leadership and innovation? Is it any different?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I actually think my background and also the background of
Speaker 2: our CEO of the digital half of iHeart, Connell Burn,
Speaker 2: he also came from Stuff Media. Both of us had
Speaker 2: been and lived in the startup space, and I actually
Speaker 2: think it's really given us a lot of guidance as
Speaker 2: we think about leading larger companies because the way that
Speaker 2: we actually try to organize iHeart Podcasts, you could step
Speaker 2: back from that and say, Okay, we've got nine hundred
Speaker 2: podcasts and really think about it as this one cumulative entity.
Speaker 2: And of course we do that in the marketplace to
Speaker 2: some extent, but that's not really the way I look at.
Speaker 1: It and our best execution.
Speaker 2: What we are as a division that has maybe twenty
Speaker 2: or twenty five different teams or slates or networks and
Speaker 2: themselves that get to operate somewhat independently, get to create
Speaker 2: their own ideas, get to create many of their own
Speaker 2: marketing plans, but then have the ability to tap into
Speaker 2: the resources of a much larger organization. So what we're
Speaker 2: in effect trying to do is to fund and support
Speaker 2: startups within a larger organization so that when Charlemagne, the
Speaker 2: god legendary host of the Breakfast Club or co host
Speaker 2: of the Breakfast Club comes along and says, I think
Speaker 2: it's time to start a network dedicated to black voices
Speaker 2: because of the incredible underrepresentation in the podcast space. When
Speaker 2: he came to us in twenty twenty and express that,
Speaker 2: we so, well, now is the time to do this.
Speaker 2: Let's give it a shot, and to give him the resources,
Speaker 2: but in some ways to also step out of the
Speaker 2: way and to not get in the way of a
Speaker 2: creator or a visionary trying to create their thing. We
Speaker 2: know that we have the toolkit to help a podcast
Speaker 2: network or an individual podcast succeed through marketing and the
Speaker 2: megaphone that we have here at iHeart, but we also
Speaker 2: know we want to invest in and believe in creators
Speaker 2: to see through their vision. We've tried to do that
Speaker 2: with so many others, whether that's with Bloomberg and business,
Speaker 2: Will Ferrell and comedy Shonda Rhimes, in the creative space,
Speaker 2: the NFL, or NBA and sports. Our job is to
Speaker 2: help these great organizations and creators bring these ideas to life.
Speaker 2: So it's been fun to be able to organize that way.
Speaker 2: We don't always get it right, but in its best execution,
Speaker 2: that's the way we try to organize.
Speaker 3: Yeah, sometimes it's just let them tell you what's needed.
Speaker 3: I think sometimes leaders put the pressure on themselves to
Speaker 3: sort of figure it out.
Speaker 1: That's right, and it.
Speaker 3: Doesn't always work, but when it does, you look back
Speaker 3: and go that was kind of easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Actually, how do you stay on top of the trends
Speaker 3: and ensure iHeartMedia remains ahead of its competitors. It sounds
Speaker 3: like one approach is to lean into your experts and
Speaker 3: your podcast's hosts who are in it every day and
Speaker 3: hearing from their audience.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I would actually say that is the biggest way is
Speaker 2: to be listening to our leadership. So the one part
Speaker 2: that I sort of left out there, suppose in organizing
Speaker 2: that way is that it is critical that every one
Speaker 2: of those teams has an excellent leader that is, in
Speaker 2: many respects, the general manager or the president of their
Speaker 2: own small podcast company. I would say that almost more
Speaker 2: than anything. But the other thing is just listening within
Speaker 2: the industry, seeing what shows are launching, seeing what trends
Speaker 2: are out there. Seeing what's not out there is part
Speaker 2: of it, and that can be a challenge. It's really
Speaker 2: easy to follow, Oh, here's a new thing that's happening.
Speaker 2: Here's a new thing that's happening. One of the harder
Speaker 2: things I think is identifying where the gaps are. So
Speaker 2: I guess the only other thing I'd add is we
Speaker 2: do try to look at the data as well. I
Speaker 2: have a great data and analytics team here at iHeart
Speaker 2: that helps us see where those gaps are, and we
Speaker 2: look at the trends of listenership, and part of it
Speaker 2: is having to identify. Okay, I see that they are
Speaker 2: under indexing for listening within podcasts, and we have the
Speaker 2: benefit of being part of a network that can actually
Speaker 2: address that can actually move the needle because of the
Speaker 2: scale coming up.
Speaker 3: After the break, Will and I talk about adapting to
Speaker 3: the pandemic, the evolution of podcast advertising, and his advice
Speaker 3: to aspiring media professionals.
Speaker 2: The world changed in twenty twenty, and in some respects,
Speaker 2: we can't pretend that it's back to being exactly the
Speaker 2: same world today that it was before the pandemic. I
Speaker 2: think we have to acknowledge that life changed, and we
Speaker 2: need to be able to change with the world around us.
Speaker 4: We'll be right back.
Speaker 3: I have a question now, just about your approach to
Speaker 3: relating to your teams and your leaders within iHeart given
Speaker 3: that the last couple of years, few years have been
Speaker 3: very volatile, very challenging from whatever direction you're looking at,
Speaker 3: global pandemic, inflation, election cycle, and so the line between
Speaker 3: sort of home and work is blurred, and people are
Speaker 3: coming to work with a lot of heavy thoughts.
Speaker 4: And I'm sure a lot.
Speaker 3: Of CEOs and leaders in C suite are grappling with
Speaker 3: this as well. Just how to foster innovation when everything
Speaker 3: feels like it's on fire. How do you foster inspiration too,
Speaker 3: because it can be hard going into work with so
Speaker 3: many constraints at home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely not easy, and I think the first
Speaker 2: step is actually just simply acknowledging that in your talent
Speaker 2: base or in your employee base, just not pretending that
Speaker 2: these things aren't issues and aren't still issues. Right, the
Speaker 2: world changed in twenty twenty, and in some respects we
Speaker 2: can't pretend that it's back to being exactly the same
Speaker 2: world today that it was before the pandemic I think
Speaker 2: we have to acknowledge that life changed and we need
Speaker 2: to be able to change with the world around us.
Speaker 2: But I think it's looking for those opportunities of ways
Speaker 2: to innovate even with those situations. And so in some
Speaker 2: respects we learned the advantages of being able to create
Speaker 2: and operate from home. We had a lot of talent
Speaker 2: that weren't working with us before the pandemic, and then
Speaker 2: we really learned how to very quickly. When you think
Speaker 2: about the hundreds of podcasts that we produce, and then
Speaker 2: suddenly we had to be able to produce all of
Speaker 2: them remotely and to see a team rally around this,
Speaker 2: And actually I shouldn't necessarily call it a distraction, but
Speaker 2: in some ways it was during a really difficult time
Speaker 2: during the pandemic, to have a team saying, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is a new challenge, a new focus. We're going to
Speaker 2: figure out how to very rapidly move hundreds and hundreds
Speaker 2: of podcasts to remote production. What it opened up for
Speaker 2: us was that many talent could only produce remotely. Many
Speaker 2: talent only wanted to be remote and recording their podcast
Speaker 2: and now that's no longer an issue for us. So
Speaker 2: I think part of it is that part of it
Speaker 2: is just trying to be in very regular communication with
Speaker 2: the team. This actually still goes back to the way
Speaker 2: we organize is really leaning into that leadership to say,
Speaker 2: you may have a team of ten as opposed to
Speaker 2: our team of a couple hundred, I really need for
Speaker 2: you to stay in communication with your team and make
Speaker 2: sure that if there is any challenge that that's flagged
Speaker 2: for us. We tried to get creative in terms of
Speaker 2: finding small group communication. Something that I try to do
Speaker 2: pretty regularly is have these you know, not a creative name,
Speaker 2: but just these coffee talks where we'll take three or
Speaker 2: four people from different parts of our podcast team all
Speaker 2: get on Zoom together with no agenda other than getting
Speaker 2: to know each other for half an hour. We're not
Speaker 2: talking about work, we're not talking about our mission at iHeart,
Speaker 2: We're just getting to know each other. What are people reading,
Speaker 2: what are people watching, what's on their minds with their families?
Speaker 2: And I think those moments help bring us together as
Speaker 2: people as well. And it's not easy to try to
Speaker 2: always find the time to do that for anyone, but
Speaker 2: I think it pays off to really build those connections.
Speaker 4: I love that. Well, let's talk about advertising a little bit.
Speaker 3: How has that evolved since when you say started in
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen. I know, iHeart just announced its adoption of
Speaker 3: unified ID two point zero. Can you talk a little
Speaker 3: bit about that and how it's revolutionizing the business.
Speaker 2: Actually, the evolution of advertising in podcasting I find to
Speaker 2: be super interesting because when you go back and you
Speaker 2: think about some of those early podcasts or even podcasts,
Speaker 2: you don't have to go that far back, you go
Speaker 2: back six seven years ago, and the podcast advertisers you
Speaker 2: were hearing at that point were all what we call
Speaker 2: direct response advertisers, right your stamps dot Com, your meal kits,
Speaker 2: your mattress companies, your whatever it may have been, that
Speaker 2: were all using those discount codes. So the benefit of
Speaker 2: those being the primary advertisers that were really building the
Speaker 2: industry is you had to prove that they would perform.
Speaker 2: You don't continue hearing these advertisers if they're not working.
Speaker 2: And so that really built the podcast industry, and there
Speaker 2: was a moment where brands started waking up to this
Speaker 2: and started realizing, oh wait, if I'm here these same
Speaker 2: advertisers over and over and over again. It's because people
Speaker 2: are paying attention, and there was something about the intimacy
Speaker 2: of that connection between the podcast host and the podcast
Speaker 2: listener that was just so incredibly effective. And so brand
Speaker 2: started coming on board and saying, we've got to be
Speaker 2: a part of this as well. And it was really
Speaker 2: exciting for us to be I think at the forefront
Speaker 2: of that, especially as we started launching some of these
Speaker 2: bigger slates, you know, the Black Effect or Michael Tura
Speaker 2: or Big Money Players or even partnering with Malcolm Gladwell's
Speaker 2: Pushkin for several years now that we approached it a
Speaker 2: bit differently. We said, you know what, for this slate
Speaker 2: of shows, we're actually only bringing in five advertisers, five
Speaker 2: category exclusive advertisers that will own the entire slate for
Speaker 2: their category and be able to be part of what
Speaker 2: we're trying to build. Here was a really exciting evolution
Speaker 2: for all of this, and the next phase in that
Speaker 2: has actually been the ability to reach very specific audiences.
Speaker 2: So brands started coming on board, but then certain brands
Speaker 2: were saying, you know, this is all great, but actually,
Speaker 2: if I'm going to be investing in podcasting, I need
Speaker 2: to know that I can reach a critical scale in
Speaker 2: doing this, and so that gets to your sort of
Speaker 2: the second piece of this, which is the ability to
Speaker 2: audience target. If you can target anywhere in digital media,
Speaker 2: you can do the same thing in podcasting. And so
Speaker 2: part of what we've tried to do is say, Okay,
Speaker 2: you're trying to reach you know, women twenty five to
Speaker 2: thirty nine, who are moms, who are the have the
Speaker 2: following qualifiers. Yes, we can definitely help you do that
Speaker 2: through this you know celebrity slate of podcast that we
Speaker 2: have right here. However, we can help you do this
Speaker 2: at even greater scale across our network of eight hundred
Speaker 2: shows by really focusing on the shows and the listeners
Speaker 2: that are reaching that audience. And then the next piece
Speaker 2: of that has been building more three p sixty ad
Speaker 2: per programs to say, okay, be part of the podcast,
Speaker 2: be part of the slate. Let's also extend that into
Speaker 2: social media. Let's also extend that into video where possible,
Speaker 2: or into live events, just to continue building this connection.
Speaker 2: There are actually some really interesting statistics around the improved
Speaker 2: performance of social media advertising when it follows audio advertising.
Speaker 2: So as a compliment to that, so it's been something
Speaker 2: just in educating advertisers to help them understand that as
Speaker 2: part of a full media program, as part of a
Speaker 2: full marketing program, podcasting can be just an incredible complement
Speaker 2: to that.
Speaker 3: I think the limitation of the brands in exclusive category
Speaker 3: is smart. And also as a podcaster, I really appreciate
Speaker 3: when it's just sort of a tight group of brands
Speaker 3: that are involved in the show and then you're not
Speaker 3: reading mattress ad after a mattress AD. Nothing against the
Speaker 3: mattress Ad people, but it just creates a more quality
Speaker 3: experience I think for everybody, listeners, producers, everybody, and of
Speaker 3: course the sponsor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. We want to have a balance to that.
Speaker 2: I guess the only other thing I'll add with that
Speaker 2: the type of advertising when we mentioned the ability to
Speaker 2: reach audiences is it also allowed us to help small
Speaker 2: the mid size shows grow because previously a big brand
Speaker 2: might come along and say, Okay, those shows are cute,
Speaker 2: but like I need scale so to be able to say, okay,
Speaker 2: well you're coming into these two or three really big shows,
Speaker 2: but then we're going to help give you the backing
Speaker 2: of the audience across several others and do have some
Speaker 2: of these small the mid size shows. Now having fortune
Speaker 2: five hundred companies, you know, running in their shows has
Speaker 2: been really exciting for those creators as well.
Speaker 3: Sounds like a lot of work, but also sounds like fun.
Speaker 3: How do you maintain a work life balance for yourself?
Speaker 1: Will I'll be completely honest.
Speaker 2: I mean it is one of those things that I
Speaker 2: sort of force myself, not even just annually, but probably
Speaker 2: every six months to do a little bit of a
Speaker 2: reset and say, what is it that I'm going to
Speaker 2: do outside of work, whether it's with family, whether it's
Speaker 2: with personal interest, to make sure that you're just working
Speaker 2: every hour of every day. When you love what you do,
Speaker 2: when you love the company that you're working with, it's
Speaker 2: really easy to get pulled in that direction. You could
Speaker 2: work all the time. It's not good for you. I
Speaker 2: don't think it's good ultimately for the company. And so
Speaker 2: what I've tried to do is find certain passions that
Speaker 2: you can follow. For me, it's been running over the
Speaker 2: past several years to use that as not only something
Speaker 2: to foster physical health, but really for my own mental health.
Speaker 2: To be able to just step away from it all,
Speaker 2: put the phone down, start running. Sounds very far as
Speaker 2: gumpy of me, and I'm from Alabama, so I'm just
Speaker 2: going to say yeah too strongly. But it's been a
Speaker 2: big part of my life. This past year, I ran
Speaker 2: the New York Marathon for the first time, and I
Speaker 2: have just been trying to get out and run as
Speaker 2: much as I can, but finding things like that that
Speaker 2: can provide a balance to what you're doing day to day.
Speaker 4: Living in Birmingham. How has that worked just logistically with
Speaker 4: iHeart based in New York and a lot of the
Speaker 4: media world in New York.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, iHeart is a super interesting company on
Speaker 2: this front. When you think about the fact that we're
Speaker 2: really built around one hundred and fifty different markets around
Speaker 2: the country. These are radio stations in every single major market,
Speaker 2: mid size market, some small markets around the country, and
Speaker 2: so we have executive team members who are really all
Speaker 2: over the place. It does mean that I'm traveling a
Speaker 2: good bit. It means that I'm in New York a
Speaker 2: couple times a month, I'm probably in la once a
Speaker 2: month or so, and then in other locations as events
Speaker 2: or needs come up. But I don't think it's been
Speaker 2: a real limiting factor. And I think back to the
Speaker 2: sort of work life balance piece of it, and also
Speaker 2: just kind of stepping away from the chaos of cities
Speaker 2: that I love, but the chaos that can come along
Speaker 2: with those cities. I also think too, it's good for
Speaker 2: our executive team to be spread a bit because we've
Speaker 2: done a lot of studies on this and looked at
Speaker 2: what we call sometimes the ignored consumer or the new
Speaker 2: American consumer, where you're recognizing that not every consumer, not
Speaker 2: every listener that we're trying to reach, is based in
Speaker 2: New York and LA and it's easy to sort of
Speaker 2: fall into that trap of creating all of your content
Speaker 2: specifically for those audiences, while of course there should be
Speaker 2: content created for them, we really want to be able
Speaker 2: to think about everybody. The fact that iheartreaches ninety ninety
Speaker 2: one percent of Americans on a monthly basis, we've got
Speaker 2: to be making content for everybody.
Speaker 4: So as we.
Speaker 3: Approach our last few minutes here will I kind of
Speaker 3: want to get your wisdom for those in the audience
Speaker 3: who are listening and thinking, you know, I want to
Speaker 3: pursue a path in media or any industry really, and
Speaker 3: I have a lot of ambition. I feel like almost
Speaker 3: are running up against a timeline, you know, in the
Speaker 3: sense that by the time I'm this age or that age,
Speaker 3: I want to have accomplished so much. So much of
Speaker 3: what success is is defined by when you achieve that success, right, right,
Speaker 3: And I'm just curious, what would you say to that
Speaker 3: person who's feeling that strain.
Speaker 4: Did you ever feel this way? Do you have a.
Speaker 3: Timeline in your own head about when you'd like to
Speaker 3: achieve certain milestones?
Speaker 2: You know, I think anybody who claims they have no
Speaker 2: timeline in their head is probably not telling the truth.
Speaker 2: Whether it's a healthy thing for us to do or not.
Speaker 2: It's funny that you mentioned this though, because actually just
Speaker 2: before this, we were planning out some of what we'll
Speaker 2: be doing together with Martha Stewart, who's a great partner
Speaker 2: of ours, has a podcast with us. You know, she's,
Speaker 2: of course in her early eighties. Everybody's talking about the
Speaker 2: new documentary about her, and she's never had a hotter
Speaker 2: business moment than right now. Like, it is really exciting
Speaker 2: to watch everything that she's accomplishing, and so much of
Speaker 2: her success has come from her forties and fifties on
Speaker 2: and it's actually been really fun to see that. So
Speaker 2: that is true, But at the same time. In terms
Speaker 2: of those that are earlier in their career, maybe in
Speaker 2: their twenties and thirties, and trying to think about what
Speaker 2: they want to do next, they're interested in moving into
Speaker 2: the media space. I think there's a couple of things.
Speaker 2: I think one is to be consumers of that media.
Speaker 2: And I was talking to somebody earlier today who is
Speaker 2: passionate about one category in podcasting and is looking into
Speaker 2: breaking into podcasting. My recommendation was to also start consuming
Speaker 2: content and other categories, to listen to categories that you've
Speaker 2: never really thought about before, because it sort of challenges
Speaker 2: your idea of what it is to produce a podcast,
Speaker 2: to create something new, and so I think it is
Speaker 2: very important to try to consume as much as you
Speaker 2: possibly can of a variety of things, and then to
Speaker 2: also just put yourself in that space. For some people,
Speaker 2: I will use podcasting as an example to just launch
Speaker 2: your own podcasts. You know, I talk to a lot
Speaker 2: of students and a lot of young professionals. There's such
Speaker 2: a low barrier to entry, and the only goal shouldn't
Speaker 2: be I need thousands or tens of thousands or millions
Speaker 2: of listeners. It should be actually be to fine tune
Speaker 2: your creative skills and your production skills, and just being
Speaker 2: out in the world. The number of people that have
Speaker 2: landed jobs or landed podcast gigs because they just started
Speaker 2: a thing and they just got it out in the world.
Speaker 2: I think it is really important to just try to
Speaker 2: do that. And even if it's an entry level job
Speaker 2: at a company that you're in interested in. We've seen
Speaker 2: that firsthand with people coming into a place like iHeart,
Speaker 2: showing how good they are at the job, showing how
Speaker 2: passionate they are, and being able to sort of advance
Speaker 2: from there. So there's no easy paths to do it,
Speaker 2: but I think part of it is just taking that
Speaker 2: leap and putting yourself out there to try to get
Speaker 2: into the.
Speaker 3: Space, sort of like Will in college is started the
Speaker 3: magazine that's right now.
Speaker 1: No idea what you're doing, but you just do it,
Speaker 1: just get in the deep end.
Speaker 4: I'm an author.
Speaker 3: I like to ask Guess a lot this kind of question,
Speaker 3: and you're an author too, So here here we go,
Speaker 3: and we're in the same boat.
Speaker 4: Here.
Speaker 3: If you had to write a memoir or someone was
Speaker 3: going to write a biography about Will Pearson, what should
Speaker 3: the title be? And maybe we should ask your friend, yes,
Speaker 3: your co founder.
Speaker 2: The title whiz, that's probably what the title should be.
Speaker 2: Is what should Mangesh call this book? I think it's
Speaker 2: going to be it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what would Mangesh do?
Speaker 2: That's yes, Yes, I've got a bracelet that says it
Speaker 2: the whole thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's awesome. And finally, will we're going to ask
Speaker 3: all of our guests this. You are no, you're guess,
Speaker 3: so you get the first stab at it. But what
Speaker 3: does leading by example mean to you?
Speaker 4: Question Mark?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, actually, I think it's nice that we
Speaker 2: were able to talk about this a little bit early
Speaker 2: in the episode. When leading by example is being there
Speaker 2: with the team when they're doing the hard thing and
Speaker 2: being a part of that in any way possible, and
Speaker 2: not simply being a leader that's sort of passing down
Speaker 2: a directive and saying, go do this. It's when you've
Speaker 2: got a hard decision or a challenging thing, or a
Speaker 2: difficult partner or an advertiser that's frustrated or whatever it
Speaker 2: may be. Don't always leave your team to do the work.
Speaker 2: Actually get your hands dirty with them and get in
Speaker 2: the middle of it. And then they see that and
Speaker 2: you and understand that there's really not a task that's
Speaker 2: below any one of us, that we're all part of
Speaker 2: a team here. To me, that's been the most important
Speaker 2: part of how to lead by example in my opinion.
Speaker 3: Will Pearson, thank you so much. You are a great
Speaker 3: guest to start with, and we'll be listening.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for newsh It was great to be
Speaker 1: with you.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 4: I liked that. That was a really interesting conversation with Will.
Speaker 3: And I know I'm not the only one who took
Speaker 3: away some great points because I have Kia here with
Speaker 3: me who's been stinking in on this conversation. She's our
Speaker 3: supervising producer on this show. Hi Kia, Hi, So you
Speaker 3: have worked under Will and you've attended some of his
Speaker 3: coffee talks. Are they as cheesy as he says they sound?
Speaker 4: They're great?
Speaker 5: Let me talk about reality TV when I'm watching.
Speaker 1: It was good.
Speaker 4: It was good to connect.
Speaker 5: You know, Will is in Birmingham, as you discussed, so
Speaker 5: we don't always see him face to face in the
Speaker 5: New York office, but it was nice to connect with
Speaker 5: him and other producers on the team.
Speaker 4: And how long you've been working in podcasting, Kia.
Speaker 5: I've been working in podcasting. I guess technically since like
Speaker 5: twenty seventeen.
Speaker 3: So you've been in the mix for a while. You've
Speaker 3: been watching the evolution both as like someone who works
Speaker 3: in the space but also who's a consumer. Is there
Speaker 3: something you really appreciated Will's leadership approach or anything he said?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think something he touched on. Like we said,
Speaker 5: timing is super important. You feel like you're hustling. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 5: I came from like a radio kind of podcasting background,
Speaker 5: and then I started my independent podcast and then iHeart
Speaker 5: actually found me and that's how I got into podcasting
Speaker 5: full time. So it's been amazing to see like what
Speaker 5: iHeart can do and also how you can create podcasts
Speaker 5: as an independent creator, and how I Heart really has
Speaker 5: the tools to shape the podcasting slates. So when Will
Speaker 5: talked about timing, you know, with how stuff works and
Speaker 5: how I Heart really I think is beneficial to the
Speaker 5: podcasting world because they got in at the right time.
Speaker 5: And I think timing and luck is so important, not
Speaker 5: just in podcasting, but like your career at all. Like
Speaker 5: if I didn't start my podcast in twenty nineteen, I
Speaker 5: probably won't have this job now.
Speaker 4: It's so much more crowded.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think often we feel like we have to have
Speaker 3: all the right answers, we have to be super ready,
Speaker 3: All the stars have to align before we can start.
Speaker 3: You know, if someone comes back to me and they're like,
Speaker 3: should I start a podcast? It feels like there's millions
Speaker 3: of podcasts, I'm like, yeah, there are, but do it anyway? Yeah,
Speaker 3: the best time to start anything is yesterday. Yes, I
Speaker 3: think that's good.
Speaker 5: And someone made this comment and podcasting and they're like,
Speaker 5: there's a million books. Can you tell people not to
Speaker 5: write any more books?
Speaker 4: Obviously I would have a career. Yeah. I mean he
Speaker 4: started a magazine in college. Yeah, super impressive. I wish
Speaker 4: I would just.
Speaker 3: Start something, you know, and you'll learn the goal is
Speaker 3: not to like make it the next billion dollar publicly
Speaker 3: traded company, but especially for those who are listening who
Speaker 3: are in the earlier stage of their careers, like it's
Speaker 3: really just about making a mess of things and moving
Speaker 3: on as quickly as possible.
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, I think that's great advice. I love to
Speaker 5: hear your takeaways from this conversation.
Speaker 4: With Will Well.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I just liked his vibe. I thought he was
Speaker 3: a really calm person. I don't know if that's true
Speaker 3: because I haven't actually been in a boardroom with him
Speaker 3: or you know.
Speaker 5: I mean, it is very true. I will say as
Speaker 5: someone who breaks at iHeart and sees will he's chill.
Speaker 5: It's honestly fascinating that he's an exact like he's just
Speaker 5: the cool guy that wears like the T shirt.
Speaker 3: And here's why I think that's true, because he's gotten
Speaker 3: his reps in early Yes, but I'm sure along the
Speaker 3: way there were stresses, and so I appreciate that about him.
Speaker 3: I think to our point earlier, just getting into the
Speaker 3: habit of starting to do something early on and trusting
Speaker 3: yourself and knowing I'm going to fail, I'm going to
Speaker 3: make mistakes, but I'm getting a head start goes a
Speaker 3: very long way, because now when you are leading a team,
Speaker 3: huge team, I think he has a lot of those
Speaker 3: experiences to fall back on and knows what's worth fighting
Speaker 3: for and what's not, Like what's worth stressing about and
Speaker 3: what's not.
Speaker 4: You know, he just has had a long life of
Speaker 4: doing this.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and I think we all appreciate someone who's been
Speaker 5: in it. So it's not the same as like someone
Speaker 5: who's just like jumping from, you know, a CEO position
Speaker 5: to another CEO position from like a different industry. It's
Speaker 5: like he's worked in this industry, he's done it, he's
Speaker 5: made the transition, he's seen the evolution of podcasting.
Speaker 1: He's not the.
Speaker 5: Typical corporate execs and right, we can all really appreciate that.
Speaker 3: And he doesn't pretend to know everything. Yeah, I appreciate
Speaker 3: it that he leans on others to guide him. And
Speaker 3: that's true leadership. Right when you are in the room
Speaker 3: with the right people, you surround yourself with the right people.
Speaker 3: You don't assume that you are the smartest person in
Speaker 3: the room or should necessarily be the one to have
Speaker 3: the last word. I think that's true leadership. And you know,
Speaker 3: I might be biased because I'm in the podcast space,
Speaker 3: but I think he'd.
Speaker 4: Be a great person to work for. Yeah, no, he is.
Speaker 4: That's a testament.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much to Will Pearson for joining us today.
Speaker 3: I hope you enjoyed our first episode. We have many
Speaker 3: more to come, and in the meantime, if you like
Speaker 3: what you're hearing, please follow and subscribe to this podcast
Speaker 3: so you don't miss any episodes. And of course we
Speaker 3: want to hear your thoughts to make this the best
Speaker 3: show possible, so please leave a review. In the meantime,
Speaker 3: you can find me at Farnushcharabi on Instagram and the
Speaker 3: so Many podcast I'll see you next Time.
Speaker 4: This podcast is.
Speaker 3: A production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio. Our executive producer is
Speaker 3: Matt Stillo. Our supervising producer is Nikia Swinton. This podcast
Speaker 3: was edited by Sierra Spreen