WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: The Sony Pictures Entertainment Hack 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.520 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.640 --> 0:00:17.480 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeart Radio and 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.960 I love all things tech. This time for a tech 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:25.040 Stuff classic episode. This episode originally published on January two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:30.360 thousand fifteen. It is titled the Sony Pictures Entertainment Hack, 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:35.239 which I have talked about more recently in a few podcasts. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:42.000 Because the repercussions of that of that attack extended far 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:45.320 beyond just Sony Pictures ended up having a big impact 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:50.199 on multiple streams of media, and uh, I thought it 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:51.960 would be interesting to go back now. We keep in 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:56.320 mind this episode aired a couple of months after the 0:00:56.360 --> 0:01:00.480 hack actually happened, so we had limited information. But when 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:02.200 we come back at the end, I'll talk a little 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.199 bit more about some other stuff we know. But first 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:09.600 let's sit back and listen to this classic episode. Ben 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.759 also had me on his show Stuff They Don't Want 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.960 You To Know, to talk about today's topic, the Sony Hack, 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:18.400 And at the time when we were recording, it was 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.199 still in December and the story was still unfolding. In fact, 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:24.679 you could say that's still unfolding now, although the news 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.120 has certainly slowed down significantly since the end of December, 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.880 but we ended up talking about the story as far 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:33.600 as we could at that point and even made some 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:38.280 predictions of our own, some some theories of our own. So, uh, 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.080 in order to return the favor, Ben's joined me for 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.840 this episode so that we can revisit that topic, talk 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.000 about the Sony hack, maybe talk a little bit about 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:47.840 some of the information that came out after we had 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:52.240 already recorded the episode, and uh, just kind of explain 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:56.400 what happened and how it's different from some of the 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.920 other big stories we've heard, Like you know, all the 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.920 stories about the Sony PlayStation network and the Xbox Live 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:08.480 network getting brought down, those were done through direct denial 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:11.079 of service attacks or distributed denial of service attacks, I 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:14.080 should say. So they were distributed denial of service attacks, 0:02:14.120 --> 0:02:17.919 which is really a brute force way of shutting up 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:23.080 a server, completely different in comparison to the original Sony hacks, 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.160 wherein the various films were downloaded. But before we go 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.040 inting further, I just have to say I really appreciate 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:33.000 what you're saying here, Jonathan. I'm blushing. Thank God, I 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.600 grew this beard out so you can see it and 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:38.400 thank God as an audio podcast. But this is not 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.000 entirely all truism on my part. I come here also 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:46.240 as a representative of my co host Matt Frederick. Um. 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:48.960 We had such a great time doing this two part 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.480 episode on Sony for Stuff they Want, you know, and 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.840 we we actually went back and listened to it because 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:57.840 we liked some of the jokes that the three of 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:02.079 us were doing. But we really wanted another crack at 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:07.720 this just because other information is emerged and listeners out there, 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:12.640 if you do check out Jonathan's earlier appearance on spoiler Alerts, 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.079 some of those predictions that you and I made are 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.720 not that far off. Yeah yeah, And in fact that 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.000 again we don't We still don't have all the details. 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:26.960 We still have some conflicting information out there, stuff that 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.400 conflicts with the theories we have. It still hasn't changed 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:34.240 my theories yet, but I do acknowledge the fact that 0:03:34.320 --> 0:03:36.880 I the thing that I believe may not be true, 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:40.040 and in fact is being said to be untrue by 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:44.360 certain entities that go by three letter initialisms like the FBI. 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:49.080 Uh So let's start at the beginning. A very good 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.840 place to start. On November that was the day that 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.200 the Sony hack was revealed, and I say revealed because 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.600 the extent of this hack, the incredible amount of information 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.960 that was stolen as part of this hack was so 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:11.280 huge as to require months of time. I mean, you're 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:16.720 talking about the initial story we got and was that 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.800 the the hackers responsible claim to have stolen one terabytes 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:24.240 of data. A terabyte of data is a huge amount, right, 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:28.159 And if you're thinking of a hacker that's accessing a 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.719 system remotely, so we're assuming that this person did not 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:36.640 dress themselves up as a Sony employee infiltrate the company. 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.240 If you're talking about remotely accessing this and siphoning off 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.719 that data. Guys, you know, if you've ever downloaded a 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:45.720 big file, you know it takes time. Even if you 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.880 have a fast internet connection, it could take a while. 0:04:48.320 --> 0:04:51.320 You know, if you're trying to download let's say a 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:54.440 really big computer game that's maybe thirty or forty gigabytes, 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:59.839 that takes time. Terabytes are enormous, A hundred terabytes is huge. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:04.040 Would take months to download that much information, and only 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:07.760 if the faucet is always on. Yeah, you and also 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:12.160 to be able to do it without raising anyone's attention, right, 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:15.680 because people would see the activity over the connection. Yeah, 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:18.200 you would think at least someone would figure out something 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:21.320 in that time. So all of this is to say 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:25.120 that it's the While November twenty was when we became 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:27.440 aware of it, the actual activity had to have been 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.720 happening for at least a few months, if not longer. Right, 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.640 So what what exactly happens? I love this description because 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:37.560 it's so cinematic. Yeah, so imagine you are an employee 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.800 of Sony Pictures Entertainment, because we always say the Sony hack, 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:44.919 but we're specifically referring to Sony Pictures, so the movie 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:49.080 industry arm of Sony. So you're an employee of Sony 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:52.760 Pictures Entertainment. You go into work on November. It's the 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.919 week of Thanksgiving. You're looking forward to having dinner with 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.600 your family, having a few days off. You come in, 0:05:59.080 --> 0:06:01.440 you turn on your computer to get your little work, 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:03.400 you work done, type of, type of, type of, and 0:06:03.440 --> 0:06:06.720 then all of a sudden, like it was a nineteen 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:13.680 eighties computer thriller, a skull stylized skull pops up on 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.920 your screen, and this feels like it it feels like 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.440 a stupid movie already. Like you think about those movies 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.080 like The Net, you know, any movie where Hollywood is 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.200 trying to get across the idea of what hacking is like, 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.520 and they they visualize it where it's not someone saying 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.880 that a computer typing in code. No, it's creeping through 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.160 a dungeon. And then you see a skull and crossbones. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.559 That's a firewall. That's what this was in real life. 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:43.080 The skulls pop up on everyone's screen and it has 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:45.800 a phrase that essentially says, this is just the beginning. 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:48.880 We've obtained all your internal data, and it went on 0:06:48.960 --> 0:06:51.680 to warn that if the company did not quote obey 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:56.039 the hackers demands end quote, that the internal information would 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:59.560 be shared with the world. And this had this included 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:01.640 every thing from well, they didn't even know what it 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.440 included yet, right, so they didn't have any idea of 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:08.240 the extent of that personal information that I that that 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:14.640 sensitive info. As it turns out, it was incredibly sensitive information. 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:17.760 And those demands we're going to get back to because 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.880 the demands are one of the keys I think to 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.679 this mystery, which is still sort is okay. So the way, 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.400 the way it works out, the news spreads quickly. Eleven 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:32.040 am same day November, it hits the media, right, that's right, 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:37.600 and so this is where, uh, different media outlets start 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.920 to cover the story. Uh, the employees of Sony Pictures 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:44.280 have no access to their computers. Also, their email servers 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.240 are completely down, and even their phone systems because they 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:50.600 were using networked phones, which is you know, we we've 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:52.680 had network phones in this office in the past, so 0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.440 it's one of those things that if your internet goes down, 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:57.240 suddenly you don't have phone service either, and that's kind 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.840 of creepsy out a little bit. So they literally couldn't 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:03.600 do any work. They couldn't access any of their files, 0:08:03.640 --> 0:08:06.760 any of those important documents, contracts, all that kind of stuff. 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:11.320 All of that was inaccessible. And uh, meanwhile, as the 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:13.840 story would go on that I'm gonna skip ahead a 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.040 little bit, but we're gonna go through a timeline that'll 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:20.320 lit'll detail this stuff as we go through. But eventually 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.800 the hackers refer to themselves as Guardians of Peace or 0:08:25.240 --> 0:08:29.600 go OP. Yeah, also amuses me because to think when 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:31.960 we're talking about the GOP and this, since it's not 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:36.040 the Grand Old Party, the Guardians of peace. Um, this 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.240 is when they claim to have stolen one hundred terabytes 0:08:38.240 --> 0:08:41.240 of data. Ten terabytes is enough for all the information 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:45.040 in the Library of Congress. So they stole ten libraries 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:47.840 of Congress. Yes, they stole the Library of Congress ten 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:52.680 times now right. Yeah, I used to use um. I 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:56.319 used to use uh conquistadors as an element as a 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.319 unit of measurement for everything. But now I'm I'm willing 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.000 to go and swim to the Library of Congress at 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.240 least when it comes to data. So yeah, this and 0:09:04.240 --> 0:09:06.360 and of course some of that information was in the 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:11.839 form of high resolution digital film files. We'll talk more 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.720 about that in just a second. So on top of 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:18.160 all that, this is this is another like you know, 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.280 kick once you're down. You've already been knocked down because 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:25.800 you've had your this hack stop your work. You've been 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.160 told that a lot of your information has been stolen. 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:30.960 On top of all that, they also the hackers also 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.400 installed malware called Wiper And you can probably guess what 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.320 this does just based on the name. It starts to 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:42.360 erase all the data on these various machines. So not 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:45.720 only did you have all this information stolen, but now 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:50.280 it's truly inaccessible. It's been white from your computers. I'm 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.160 sure some of it was probably um. You were probably 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:55.800 able to get back at some of it using some 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.960 I T. Expertise, like deleting a file after your computer 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.160 doesn't mean it's gone forever. Overwriting it does so unless 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:06.760 wiper and it may very well do this. Unless wiper 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.760 over was overwriting all the data as it was erasing it, 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.079 then you could in theory at least get back some 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.000 of that. But at any rate, Uh, there were even 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:24.599 that um reports that Sony account Twitter feeds were being compromised, 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:27.360 and so the Guardians of Peace were able to tweet 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:30.320 out using that. We actually saw something similar to that 0:10:30.400 --> 0:10:34.080 recently here in the United States with the Central Command 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.000 Twitter feed. Did you see that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.880 The thing is that Twitter is uh, from what I understand, 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.319 much easier to compromise than something that would be a 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:49.200 well protected corporate level system of of this magnitude. But 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.160 it does tell us something really important, Jonathan, because it 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:55.040 tells us that this would have been a multi tiered attack, 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:59.200 even if even if or rather a multifront attacked, even 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.560 if Twitter was just uh, the sprinkle on the cupcake. 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.080 This still shows us that this was well thought out. 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.880 It was established in advance, so it doesn't seem to 0:11:10.920 --> 0:11:13.960 be an impulsive thing at all. Just just going back 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.520 to how much memory and how much time it would 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.960 take to steal a hundred terabytes. Yeah, I mean obviously, 0:11:20.360 --> 0:11:21.840 like you wouldn't be able to do that all on 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.600 a single day. So Novem was essentially the day that 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:28.600 the hackers decided, Okay, now we let them know what 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.720 we have done. Like, we've already done it. It's it's 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.920 that parts. So we're we're already scott away, scott free, 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.120 you know. Now we're just gonna set the the we're 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.520 gonna make the world burn, and we're gonna walk away 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.880 in slow motion. But Sony still has no idea what's 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:46.920 going on? For like a week? Right? Yeah? Well, I 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.480 mean again, it happened during Thanksgiving weeks, so this was 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.160 a time when a lot of people were planning on 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.360 being on vacation and suddenly, now you've got this amazing 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:58.400 crisis to deal with. Uh. And it would take more 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.080 than a week for for executives to start even getting 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.440 a hint at how bad this attack was. So on 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:09.080 December one, that's when executives became aware that the stolen 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.440 data included personal information about employees and their dependents, such 0:12:13.440 --> 0:12:16.719 as Social Security numbers and financial information, as well as 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:21.839 health information like one of the leaks of documents gave 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:25.480 details to employees who had sought treatment for things like 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:30.080 cirrhosis or cancer or there or had dependents who had 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:33.680 to seek treatments for such things. And so, I mean, 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:38.280 that's a huge breach. Are we talking? Uh? In terms 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:41.880 of for sent injured numbers? How many employees? About fifty 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.679 thousand social Security numbers were stolen? Actually around forty seven thousand. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:49.360 I rounded up round, I rounded up for forty seven 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:52.320 thousand and fifty. But yeah, more than forty seven thousand 0:12:52.400 --> 0:12:55.560 social Security numbers were stolen. Now, these were both current 0:12:55.640 --> 0:12:57.959 and former Sony employees, because it was just it was 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:01.120 databasis full of information of the aious employees who had 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.440 either worked there in the past or were currently working. 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.920 Not to downplay the gravity of this, because it is 0:13:07.040 --> 0:13:10.599 very dangerous and it's an absolute nutter violation and privacy. 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.640 But not only is that not the end of what 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.320 they stole, but they stole so much that if you're okay, 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:19.400 I'd like to infomercial this and maybe chime in with 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.280 some But wait, there's more. Yeah. In fact, that is 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:26.600 well warranted, right because the first one the one that's 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:31.120 probably the easiest for people to latch onto, because it's 0:13:31.160 --> 0:13:34.280 a simple it's a simple story the idea of stolen 0:13:34.960 --> 0:13:39.880 intellectual property, in this case, stolen movies. Right, So the 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:45.720 theft included five movies that were scheduled for Sony release, 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.640 one which had already been released, which was a fury 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.480 that one had already come out. But then there was 0:13:52.600 --> 0:13:57.640 also Annie Mr Turner, Still Alice and to Write Love 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.439 on Her Arms. Those had all been stolen as well. 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:06.200 Uh okay, yeah, so so those are the easy ones 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.079 for people to latch onto. But then there was all 0:14:08.080 --> 0:14:12.880 the internal communications, right, this is where you had information 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:18.960 about salary for top executives, like the top seventeen executives, 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.800 not to mention I think six thousand other Sony employees. 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:26.520 Their information got leaked as well. Uh. There was also 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:32.400 internal documents that that were the records of people having 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.800 complaints about Sony. Yeah, and there were there were some 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:44.960 fairly undiplomatic internal communications regarding regarding coworkers or talent yeah, 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:49.960 or the President of the United States. There were Yeah, no, 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.520 there's we'll we'll touch on that again in a moment. 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:55.120 But out of all these, you probably heard the most 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.800 about Adam Sandler. He got he got raped over the 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:03.440 coals quite a it in the internal communications. A lot 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:05.480 of in place that they just didn't like the direction 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.680 that the movie studio was going in, and they wanted 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:12.160 to see if you were Adam Sandler comedies, which is 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:14.840 I guess okay, because Netflix picked him up so for 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.680 four films. Yeah, so Sony might be free of him, 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.520 we're not. Uh, And that's not the only stuff that 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.880 got leaked. Still, no, no, there's still more, right, I mean, 0:15:27.080 --> 0:15:31.000 there's tons of information that got taken from this. Uh, 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:37.400 personal information about talent was leaked. Stuff like passports and visas, 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.800 like copies of this stuff that people needed to do. Uh. 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.680 There were so much things that so many things that 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.680 were stolen as a result of this. And uh, we're 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.240 going to go through the rest of the timeline to 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:51.000 kind of give you an idea of how this all 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:54.760 unfolded and what extent we began to learn more and 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.920 more about the damages. Uh. Meanwhile, one other thing to 0:15:58.960 --> 0:16:03.560 mention is that Sony employees have many of them have 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:08.960 filed lawsuits against the company for not protecting their personal 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:13.840 information well enough to prevent this from happening. So there 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.960 are several class action lawsuits have been leveled against the 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:20.280 company as a result of this. Because people's lives have 0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:23.000 been really impacted. We're not just talking about you know, 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.440 celebrities here. I mean that their lives have been impacted too, 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:30.400 and it's not I personally don't think that that means 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.360 that celebrities should be expected to deal with more crap 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.400 than the rest of us. I mean, sometimes that happens 0:16:36.400 --> 0:16:38.400 because it's just one of those things that goes along 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:43.120 with all the fame and everything else. But regular employees, 0:16:43.160 --> 0:16:46.480 people just normal folks like me and you who go 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:48.920 in to do their job every day and it may 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:51.880 not be glamorous, but it's it's an important part of 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.960 the function of the company. They were impacted too, just 0:16:56.200 --> 0:17:00.080 regular folks, and they will tend not to have the 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.600 uh financial wherewithal or the social safety net to help 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.600 protect themselves in the aftermath of such an event, right right, 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:11.439 They don't have the benefit of that safety net like 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.440 people who might have a lawyer on retainer or enormous 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:18.600 sums of money to lay in when you go to 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:21.560 sleep at night. You know, I have a have a 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.439 very particular fantasy in my head of what Hollywood celebrities like, 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:29.320 how they live. It's mostly Scrooge McDuck oriented. Yeah, yeah, 0:17:29.359 --> 0:17:31.840 did you see that? This is totally unrelated? But did 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.720 you did you ever see the study of what what 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:36.840 would happen if you tried to swim through a vault 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.560 full of gold? I imagine that you would not feel 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.639 very good. Yeah, it will. It will break you in 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:46.800 numerous ways. So maybe it's good that you were talking 0:17:46.840 --> 0:17:49.440 about sleeping on paper money probably better for your back. 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.000 And speaking of back, you wanna let's see where where 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.600 should we go next? Let's look at November twenty eight, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:58.880 because we've been talking a lot about this hack. The 0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:04.920 The initial messages from the hackers didn't identify any particular 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:08.280 motivation for the attack. They it was more of almost 0:18:08.280 --> 0:18:11.560 like an extortion thing, like do what we tell you, 0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:14.760 or you're gonna get it. You know. It was like 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.119 and it essentially sounded like pay us off or we 0:18:19.200 --> 0:18:22.639 will ruin you. Now. They didn't name a specific amount 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.679 of money at that initial point, they just said, do 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:30.080 what we say, yea, So they The reason why this 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.840 is important is because a lot of the discussion that 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:36.000 has followed has centered around a very specific topic that 0:18:36.040 --> 0:18:39.520 we're about to touch on. But that all came after 0:18:39.640 --> 0:18:44.119 the fact, which makes me a little cautious in actually 0:18:44.240 --> 0:18:46.680 saying that that was the reason for the whole thing, 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:49.480 the whole time. So November twenty eight, this is four 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:53.720 days after the initial attack was discovered. That's the first 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.080 time anyone floats the possibility that the attack was in 0:18:57.160 --> 0:19:00.760 response to Sony's plans to release the film the interview, 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.240 which I have we both seen it at this point. 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:04.879 I have not seen it. Did you watch it? I 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:08.440 did see it. What did you think? Uh? Well, I 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:13.480 will I will say that uh I enjoy uh Seth 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.960 Rogan and James Franco a bit more than you, which 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:19.560 is which is something we've talked about before. Yeah, And 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.480 it's not hard to enjoy Seth Rogan and James Franco 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.440 more than you do. No offense, I have a very 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:27.760 low you own it. You own it though, and I 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.520 respect that. Um, you know, I'll be I'll be candid here. 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.800 It was not my favorite film. Because I think that 0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.880 while I I enjoy a lot of a lot of 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:45.359 what might be termed lowbrow comedy, I'm not above it. 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.080 You know. One thing that I noticed sometimes is that 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:54.639 it is very convenient to conflate satire and racism, and 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.000 I think there's UH to me. There were moments in 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:00.520 the film that I that I thought were sist and 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.679 I and also was talking with my girlfriend about this 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:07.600 and said, okay, well check me here, like my am 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:11.439 I being two PC and I am I getting my 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.399 jim socks all bunched up over something unnecessarily And she 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:18.960 came in and watched part of it and she said, no, 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:22.639 I think that's pretty very racist. Yeah. Now, there is 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:28.080 definitely a difference between using satire in order to point 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:33.879 out things that you see as being important or unequal 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.560 or whatever. It's something that you are actually commenting on 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.679 and bringing attention to and starting a discussion over, and 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.840 then there's a totally different type where you're just making 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:48.160 fun of something or or you know, especially in hurtful ways. Well, 0:20:48.160 --> 0:20:49.639 here's a here's a question I have for you. I 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:53.400 don't want to derailist, but the question would be then uh, 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.479 in comparison to let's say the south Park film also 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:02.439 a work of satire in any ways, uh so, what 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:06.320 makes these two different? You know? Is it because the 0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.520 south Park film is animated? I think part of it 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:13.679 is that south Park is really about pointing out the 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:18.919 the the absolute ridiculousness of things like racism. I mean, 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:23.960 south Park used the movie used Canadians as the the 0:21:24.200 --> 0:21:26.480 great big enemy, you know, that's what all the people 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.640 they blame Canada. There's a whole song about it. It's yeah, 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.080 it's a good song. It actually was nominated for an 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.600 Academy Award. But at any rate, the you know, that 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.000 was really to kind of poke fun saying like this 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:44.119 is literally there's no difference between people like you know, 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:47.120 you look at Canadians and Americans. There's no difference there, 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.120 just as there's no difference with any people of any 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:56.480 two nations. And therefore the concept of racism itself is 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.880 utterly ridiculous. I see what you're saying. There's there's a 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.000 method to the prat falls, as you would say. But 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.800 the I don't know if anyone's ever said that before. 0:22:05.920 --> 0:22:09.600 But the thing about the interview, despite that, I think 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:12.440 it was enjoyable. I definitely laughed out loud a couple 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:15.600 of times. But I believe it's received much much more, 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.920 much more international attention than ever would have had it 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:24.520 not been associated with this. And also, you know, for 0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:27.760 people who aren't familiar with it, Uh, the the entire 0:22:27.880 --> 0:22:32.879 film is about people traveling to assassinate Kim Jong un, 0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.880 the current leader of North Korea. Right. The whole idea 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:40.919 about a host of a celebrity talk show type program 0:22:40.960 --> 0:22:44.040 and his producer heading over to North Korea because it 0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:46.600 turns out Kim Jong un is a big fan of 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:51.280 the program, and then being told by is that the CIA, Yeah, yea, 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:55.560 the CIA to take this opportunity to assassinate Kim Jong un, 0:22:56.119 --> 0:23:00.359 and uh and of course, uh spoiler alert, the leader 0:23:00.560 --> 0:23:06.360 is killed in the film. Uh. So this was November 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:09.479 twenty was the first time anyone had even mentioned this 0:23:09.640 --> 0:23:15.119 as a possibility of a motivator, and they said, yeah, 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:18.520 there was. This was not from the attackers at all. 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:20.920 This was all just kind of a I wonder if 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:23.560 this thing that's coming out later this month had anything 0:23:23.600 --> 0:23:25.320 to do with our actually next month, because this was 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:28.280 still in November. Um so, yeah, we didn't really have 0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:31.119 any evidence here. And now there was a North Korean 0:23:31.160 --> 0:23:33.600 website that had referred to the interview as quote an 0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:38.080 evil act of provocation end quote. So you could say, well, 0:23:38.119 --> 0:23:40.200 they said that it was an evil act of provocation. 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:42.840 We were they were provoked, so maybe this was the 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:46.320 act they were provoked into doing. But you know, yeah, 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:48.560 I mean, like I said, the the attack itself must 0:23:48.640 --> 0:23:52.600 have gone on for months, and it was only in 0:23:52.720 --> 0:23:55.240 those last few months that the interview was even getting 0:23:55.280 --> 0:23:58.520 the promotion of here's a movie that's coming out soon, 0:23:58.560 --> 0:24:01.600