1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha. 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you production of iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 2: And it is time for another edition of Female First, 4 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 2: the last of twenty twenty five, which means that we 5 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 2: are once again thrilled to be joined by the brilliant, 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 2: the brainy Eves. 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 3: Welcome ees, I like Brany, Thank you Brandy. That's fun. 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 3: Yeah right, I'm mixing up. It's very before. I don't 9 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 3: know why I was just giving like WB cartoons. I 10 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 3: don't know that is what I just thought. Yes, that 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 3: should have scared me. 12 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: It should. I think it was we are all of 13 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: our cartoons were a little bit eccentric, like you realize that. 14 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, we my brothers for some reason, probably because I 15 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 2: was a pushover, they got to choose what cartoons we 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: watched in the morning, and they would choose like Pinky 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: in the Brain, all these cartoons that just scared me, 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: and I'd go to school like a little unseppled. 19 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: Is it because a rat was trying to take over 20 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:12,399 Speaker 1: the world? 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 3: Maybe I think it was more just vibes. 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 2: I don't think it had a feeling to it, and 23 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: the animation style was kind of just started out. 24 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 1: It was dark, yeah, writ and stimpy Pinky and the Rain. 25 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: I think this is where we are, like why adults 26 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 1: swim in those cartoons and then things like Bob's Burgers 27 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 1: all that are so like a part of our lives 28 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 1: and so popular in our in our generation because of 29 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,240 Speaker 1: stuff like that because it was cartoon but with adult 30 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 1: meaning that we did not understand. 31 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, where is this longitudinal study on how those impacted 32 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 3: our psychology? Though? 33 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: Like? 34 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 3: What is what? What was the effect of those? 35 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: Deep dive? 36 00:01:59,240 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: He should? 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,640 Speaker 2: I would love I bet someone has looked into it, 38 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 2: because there was a very particular aesthetic, and even the 39 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 2: educational ones like do you do you all remember hysteria? 40 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,359 Speaker 3: It was like a hysteros. 41 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 2: I don't remember that one. I might be getting the 42 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: name wrong, but it was history. It was a history show, okay, 43 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: and it was kind of like animaniacs. I didn't like 44 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:22,959 Speaker 2: that one either. I didn't like it either. 45 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 3: It sounds like that sounds like a. 46 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: Deep cut ny I didn't sounds vaguely familiar, but I 47 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: can't quite remember it. That's gonna be something that we 48 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: have to look down the road. 49 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. Sorry. 50 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:38,800 Speaker 2: I actually frequently end up talking about old cartoons with 51 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: random people. 52 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:40,520 Speaker 3: So here we are. 53 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 2: Uh, well, Eves, how have you been What have you 54 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: been up to? 55 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 3: I've been good for the most part. I've been pretty good. 56 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:51,760 Speaker 3: It's hard not to be good when you're in such 57 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 3: lovely surrounds. I am in Cape Town now because I 58 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 3: live here now, so I get to see I get 59 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 3: to see these beautiful mountains every day and the day 60 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 3: a long. Hey, I think you know, that's one thing 61 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 3: that's really helping me out, because I think I do 62 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 3: have a tendency to get some seasonal depression, and I'm 63 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 3: living that what do they call it chasing the sun? 64 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 3: It has another name. I feel like I'm living that 65 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 3: life where I get to pretend I'm like those rich 66 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 3: people who like go from like where it's cold, and 67 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: they're like, I don't want to be here because it's 68 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 3: cold warm and it's snowburts, and then it's about to 69 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 3: be old there and they go to the other place 70 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 3: where it's warm. So uh, I faked my you know, 71 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 3: fake it till you make it. I left the gold 72 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 3: of where I was and came here to the warmth. Actually, 73 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 3: I was in India right before this, and that was 74 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: a great time as well. Loved it there, can't wait 75 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 3: to go back. But but here, yeah, long to be 76 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 3: experiencing the exact opposite of what my body usually experienced. 77 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 3: Is at this time, which is the longest day of 78 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 3: the year, and it being very warm right now. I 79 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 3: think it's very good for my for my psyche, for 80 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: my general health, for my mental health, for all of it. 81 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,800 Speaker 3: So it's definitely helping me out here. So I'm grateful 82 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 3: for it. I love that. 83 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: And I will tell you, just like in the zoom call, 84 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: you are glowing from the sunlight behind you, so you 85 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: look that as well, so it's beautiful. 86 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 3: Thank you. I have to say, I think my skin 87 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 3: took a hit while I was in New Delhi, so 88 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: I think I've been recovering since I got here. Be 89 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 3: real about that. Like I got to the city and 90 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 3: I'm I like cities a lot, but like New Delhi 91 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 3: is the citiest of all the cities, the city city 92 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 3: high city with the capital t top tier, and I 93 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 3: think like that definitely took a toll on my scan. 94 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 3: So I've recovered in this a few weeks that I've 95 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 3: been here so far, So thank you for noticing. 96 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 1: That descriptor of the city was really on point. 97 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 3: I mean it. 98 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, okay, I will say here in 99 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: Georgia as is gloomy and dry for the first time 100 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,720 Speaker 1: at the same time humid. My face is not loving 101 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: it either. I'm like, I'm filling that. But maybe it's 102 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: just this again, the seasonal thing with all the depression 103 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: is just adding to my face. 104 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, y'all had a cold snap there recently. 105 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: Yes, we're slowly coming out of it. 106 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, today it is rainy and very dark. I 107 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: actually like the rain, but I hate when I have 108 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: to work during I like to like watch it out 109 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: my window. 110 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: She likes to be a part of the Emo moment staring. 111 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 3: At in the rain. You know, I was an EMO kid. 112 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: I know. 113 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: I was like, what video was that with Hillary Duff? 114 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 3: Was that? Come clean? Were she's staring out at the 115 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 3: window with the rain drops on it? 116 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: You have. 117 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 3: The poster child of emo. Okay, clearly you see what 118 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 3: were my mind go? 119 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 2: Where? 120 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,119 Speaker 3: What kind of kid I was? I didn't have a face. 121 00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: Okay, let's just say even when it's dark, is still 122 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 1: not dark? Going than that? 123 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 3: I love that for you. 124 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: But also, Hillary Duff just came out with a new 125 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: album not too long ago. 126 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 3: You are she could be emo in that. I don't know. 127 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: I think she said it was for her queer fans 128 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: are gay fans. She was like, this is for my 129 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: gay friends, This is for y'all. 130 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 3: Okay, okay, everybody get one. I guess I don't know. 131 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's gay emo people who would also love 132 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: a gay emo band. 133 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 2: Oh sure, yeah, you know. I'm not familiar with her work, 134 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: but I know people of all kinds enjoyed it. 135 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 3: So oh this is gone left. 136 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 137 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: I don't know how how we got from old cartoons 138 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 3: to Hillary Duff, but it's a natural progression, I think. 139 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 2: Well, I am very excited to talk about who you 140 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 2: brought today, Eves. I was looking at some I always 141 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 2: love when I get to look at art when we're 142 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 2: doing these, and I was just really enjoying looking at 143 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:08,440 Speaker 2: the art. 144 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 3: So who are we talking about today? Today? We're talking 145 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: about Elizabeth Catlett, and I have to say, I am 146 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 3: so excited to talk about her. I'm truly excited. I 147 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 3: am biased, and I love when we get to talk 148 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 3: about people and artistic mediums here in general, too, So 149 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: there is that, but I just love her story. It 150 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 3: is one of lots of reinvention and her having going 151 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 3: into a lot of different directions, and I really appreciate 152 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: that about her story. But I also love being able 153 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 3: to look at her art work because it is really marvelous. 154 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 3: So anybody who gets a chance to see anything in 155 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: person or you know, check out stuff peruse Elizabeth Catlet's 156 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 3: work online, please do so. But her first is that 157 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 3: she was the first woman to get an mfan sculpture 158 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 3: from the University of Iowa, and she was the first 159 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 3: woman sculpture professor at the National School of Fine Arts 160 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 3: at the National Autonomous University of Mexico. So she had 161 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 3: a couple of first and she had a very long 162 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 3: and illustrious career which I'm looking forward to talking about. 163 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 3: So Elizabeth was born on April fifteen, nineteen fifteen, in Washington, 164 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 3: d c. Her grandparents were enslaved, and as a child, 165 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 3: she heard stories of her great great grandmother, who had 166 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 3: been pregnant when she was kidnapped from Madagascar and enslaved 167 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 3: in the United States. She had also heard about her 168 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 3: grandmother's enslavement and how her grandparents learned to read and write. Unfortunately, 169 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 3: her father died some months before she was born. He 170 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 3: had been a math professor at Tuskegee and he taught 171 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: in the public school system in DC. He also had 172 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 3: artistic side, so he was a musician and a wood carver. 173 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 3: Her mother, on the other hand, was a truant officer. 174 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: She also helped support the family that way, and Elizabeth 175 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 3: had two older siblings, so it was very early on. 176 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 3: Clearly she already had in her parents' role models in 177 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 3: people who cared about education, and they cared about the 178 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 3: arts as well, and Elizabeth knew early on that she 179 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 3: wanted to be an artist. Now, of course, at the time, 180 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 3: this was the early nineteen hundreds, there weren't a lot 181 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 3: of black women who were practicing artists, but this was 182 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 3: still an aim of hers. She ended up graduating from 183 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,679 Speaker 3: Dunbar High School in nineteen thirty one, and she applied 184 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 3: to art schools as she was graduating from high school, 185 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 3: and she did end up getting into the Carnegie Institute 186 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 3: of Technology which is now Carnegie Mellon. But she was black, 187 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,839 Speaker 3: which she couldn't help. But she was black, and they 188 00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 3: were like, that's not going to fly with us. You're 189 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 3: not getting in, So it doesn't matter how well you 190 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 3: did at your Infrances exams. You're not coming in to 191 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 3: our school. She went to Howard University instead. Great school, 192 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: so it's like great, she went to Howard University instead, 193 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 3: screw you other people. She studied design, printmaking, drawing, painting, 194 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 3: art history, all of the art things when she was 195 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 3: at Howard, and you can see that there was a 196 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 3: lot of influence for her at Howard and going on 197 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 3: to the rest of her artistic and professional life. James 198 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 3: Porter was one of her teachers, and she later said 199 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 3: that he helped her develop the discipline necessary to be 200 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: an artist, which is a lot of the battle. So 201 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 3: clearly that had an impact on her. So through her 202 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 3: education at Howard, she was also surrounded by the artistic 203 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: thought that came along with the Harlem Renaissance, surrounded by 204 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 3: a lot of the people who were thinking about concepts 205 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 3: that were related to race. So she had the best 206 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 3: of both worlds, seemingly. So she was surrounded by all 207 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 3: of this critical thought, all of this artistic thought, and 208 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,560 Speaker 3: then she had somebody who was helping her with her discipline. 209 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,040 Speaker 3: So I could just imagine that there was so much 210 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 3: that was being fomented, so much that was welling up 211 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 3: in her because she was getting the skill and the 212 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,839 Speaker 3: aptitude of things, and she was also able to work 213 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 3: through all these different ideas and a lot of them 214 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 3: were competing ideas, not everybody agreed with each other. So 215 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 3: there was Alan Locke who was a philosophy professor at 216 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 3: Howard and he was also an important figure in the 217 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: Harlem Renaissance, and he was really about this whole racialism 218 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 3: and art side of things, versus her teacher, James Porter. 219 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 3: Elizabeth's teacher, James Porter, was not so much in that wheelhouse. 220 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 3: He wasn't so much about racializing so much in his art. 221 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,640 Speaker 3: So at the same time, Elizabeth herself was drawn to 222 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 3: African art and black subjects. But she did say that 223 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 3: wasn't so much about doctor Alan Locke's viewpoints, and it 224 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 3: was more about the fact that there were other artists 225 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 3: that were also focusing on black subjects. And that makes 226 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 3: a lot of sense too, because it's like you're surrounded 227 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 3: by this. This is a lot of what you're seeing. 228 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 3: So she was clearly influenced by that. But yeah, so 229 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 3: she continued school. In nineteen thirty five, she got her 230 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: bachelors and she was Kumbloudie and then after school she 231 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 3: moved to Durham, North Carolina, and in Durham, she basically 232 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 3: jumped right into education, following in her parents' footsteps. She 233 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: taught art in the public schools, but you know, as 234 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 3: is wont to happen, she wasn't so focused on her 235 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 3: own art and she went to grad school at the 236 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: State University of Iowa later the Universe of Iowa in 237 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 3: Iowa City. She's like, it's taught for me to get 238 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 3: back to my own art. She was only one of 239 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 3: just two black students in the art department there. And 240 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 3: I think if y'all once y'all heard University of Iowa, 241 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: y'all were probably like, yes, she's probably not that many 242 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 3: other black students in the art department there. It's also 243 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 3: the early nineteen hundreds, Okay, makes sense. But she it 244 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 3: was actually fortuitous because she made a lifelong friend there. 245 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 3: She had to live in off campus housing because black 246 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:35,800 Speaker 3: students couldn't stay in the dorms. The other the student, 247 00:13:35,840 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 3: the other black student who was also her roommate, was 248 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 3: Margaret Walker, and she remained her friend and colleague for 249 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 3: the rest of her life. So while she was at 250 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,839 Speaker 3: the University of Iowa, she was studying drawing and painting. 251 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: And she had this other teacher, Grant Wood, who also 252 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 3: left a big mark on her. He was a painter. 253 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:03,679 Speaker 3: So Elizabeth became interested in sculpture, but her teacher, Grant 254 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 3: would He was like, you, you should make what you 255 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 3: know and that'll be the best subject of your art. 256 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,439 Speaker 3: So this is how he encouraged her to make art. 257 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 3: And you'll see this show up in her commentary about 258 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 3: her work and in some of the work she did. 259 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 3: As we'll talk about going forward. She got the first 260 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 3: Master of Fine Arts degree in sculpture that was awarded 261 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 3: at the University of Ioue. At this point, it's her 262 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 3: first and then the main piece she had to have 263 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 3: an exhibition at the end of her time in the school. 264 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 3: In her nineteen forty exhibition was a limestone sculpture called 265 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 3: Negro Mother and Child. And this is what she said 266 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,479 Speaker 3: in her thesis statement. She said, to create a composition 267 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 3: of two figures, one smaller than the other, so interlaced 268 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 3: as to be expressive of maternity, and so compact as 269 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 3: to be suitable to stone seemed a desirable problem. The 270 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 3: implications of motherhood, especially Negro motherhood, are quite important to 271 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 3: me as I am a Negro as well as a woman. 272 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 3: That's the end of the quote. So she's already getting 273 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 3: into kind of a The best subject of your art 274 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 3: is what you know about, and it's also a lot 275 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 3: of what she was surrounded surrounded by in her actual 276 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 3: lived experience, and also a lot of the other art 277 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 3: that she was saying what it was representing. So that sculpture, 278 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 3: she actually sent off a picture to it because this 279 00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:35,119 Speaker 3: was part of what she needed to be able to graduate, 280 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 3: basically to be in a national exposition, And she sent 281 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 3: off a picture to it and got accepted into the 282 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: American Negro Exposition in Chicago that summer, and she actually 283 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 3: got the first place award in sculpture there, so that 284 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 3: was pretty cool. And in the fall of nineteen forty 285 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 3: she started teaching at Diller University in New Orleans. She 286 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 3: taught drawing, painting, printmaking, art history, and I'm just like 287 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 3: you weren't really teaching all the things like you have 288 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 3: to be very adept at something to be able to 289 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 3: share it with people. And she did all of those 290 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 3: things in her practice and in her and in studying 291 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 3: and in her she would go on to do in 292 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 3: her practice and then she was also sharing all of 293 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 3: those with everyone, which is really cool to see, and 294 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 3: there are other things we'll talk about it she shared 295 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: with people. So this story, I love this story in 296 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 3: her biography. So she wanted her students to see a 297 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,240 Speaker 3: Picasso retrospective at the Del Gatto Museum, which is now 298 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 3: the New Orleans Museum of Art, but it was in 299 00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 3: a park where black folks couldn't go. So she was like, 300 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 3: that's we got to I want them to see this exhibition, 301 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 3: so we're going to figure out a way to make 302 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,880 Speaker 3: it happen, and she did just that. She reached out 303 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 3: to another faculty member at Sophie Newcombe College, which was 304 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: a college for white women, and they were able to 305 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 3: get all the students, all of Elizabeth's students, taken or 306 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: right up to the door of the art museum. It 307 00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 3: was on a Monday that it was closed to the 308 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 3: rest of the people, the rest of the people being 309 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 3: the white people, because those are the people who could 310 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 3: go there. And so the students all gathered and then 311 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 3: they had this person who was there from the college 312 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 3: who was able to tell them more about, you know, everything, 313 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 3: all the art that was there in the museum. And 314 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 3: Elizabeth said that some of the students loved the work 315 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 3: and some hated the work, but nobody was bored. I'm 316 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,520 Speaker 3: just in my head, I picture like in the quote 317 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,440 Speaker 3: she talks about how they were running from this room 318 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 3: to that room, and I just imagined this large group 319 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 3: of students super excited. It was the first time for 320 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 3: many of them that they had ever even been to 321 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 3: an art museum period. And I love art museums. I 322 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 3: love being at art museums. They bring me so much 323 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: comfort and joy, and just to think about like it 324 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 3: being their first time and it being in a place 325 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 3: where like black people don't even step foot in at all, 326 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 3: and you have, you know, you have all of these 327 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 3: people in the museum for the first time, going our 328 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 3: being able to critique it, seeing it up close in person, 329 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 3: and having that experience with it. It seems very edifying. 330 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 3: So onto the summer of nineteen forty one, she's in Chicago. 331 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 3: She's studying ceramics and lithography there. While she's there, she 332 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 3: also meets this guy named Charles White, and she ended 333 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 3: up marrying him very soon after that. And there she 334 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 3: was also surrounded by this really lively, creative community that 335 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 3: was also I think a lot of the people who 336 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 3: are listening know a little bit about Chicago at the time. 337 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 3: Very there are a lot of people there who are 338 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 3: in the arts, who are socially and politically engaged. And 339 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 3: this is a quote from Elizabeth Catlett. She said, we 340 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 3: would meet at each other's houses and we would get 341 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: together socially and discuss things and talk about creative things, 342 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,199 Speaker 3: and people would read things and we would look at 343 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 3: each other's work. End quote. So there's this kind of 344 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 3: salon situation happening where everybody's talking and sharing ideas and 345 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 3: seemingly a very sincere, authentic, natural way. And many of 346 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 3: these artists that were around her were dedicated to creating 347 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 3: art for social change. Eventually, though, in nineteen forty two, 348 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 3: Elizabeth and her husband Charles, they moved to New York 349 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 3: and they were connected with I mean all these names 350 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 3: names that a lot of names you would know, people 351 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 3: like Ernie Krishlowe Langston Hughes, Jacob Lawrence, Gwendolen Bennett, a 352 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 3: bunch of other black artists. They started being in circles with, 353 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 3: and during her first summer there in New York, she 354 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,479 Speaker 3: also worked with the sculptor name Osip zach Keene, and 355 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 3: he had just gotten to New York after leaving Nazi 356 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 3: occupation in France, and what he encouraged her to do 357 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 3: was work more with abstraction and to look for African 358 00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:03,679 Speaker 3: art for inspiration. But he kind of had while she 359 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 3: was like, I'm making stuff for my people, I'm making 360 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 3: the things that I'm used to singing. I'm making art 361 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 3: about the things that I'm used to seeing. He was like, no, 362 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 3: art should be international, Why does it have to be 363 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 3: limited to this? She wanted to make work she thought 364 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 3: her audience would relate to, so she was focusing on 365 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 3: black subjects. So they were kind of there was some 366 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 3: friction there between the two of them and that thinking. 367 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 3: And of course her wanting to focus on black subjects 368 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 3: is in line with the advice that she got from 369 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,720 Speaker 3: her teacher, who we talked about earlier. Grant would so 370 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 3: Elizabeth making her own work, you know, working in her 371 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 3: own practice, still teaching now, she goes back to teaching 372 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 3: at the George Washington Carver School from nineteen forty four 373 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 3: until nineteen forty six. I'm going to say I love 374 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 3: every part. I'm going to say I love this part 375 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 3: A million times in her story because I just her 376 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 3: story is really fascinating and I really admire the work 377 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 3: that she did. But yeah, so she taught students who 378 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 3: had working class day jobs, and she would teach them 379 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 3: things like sculpture and sewing. And she was the school's 380 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 3: promotion director. I'm not fully sure what that job entailed, 381 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 3: but she was called the school's promotion director. And she 382 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 3: tells stories from her time at school. She talks about 383 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 3: how there was a class call it how to make 384 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 3: a dress, and there was another one called how to 385 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 3: make a Hat that one of her colleagues taught. But 386 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 3: when she was talking about the how to make a 387 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 3: dress class, she mentioned how this one person looked fabulous 388 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,920 Speaker 3: in the dress that they made, and she talked about 389 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 3: the kind of practical tips that she gave them to 390 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 3: be able to sew. So that was that was a 391 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 3: cool part of her story. But there is another part 392 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 3: of her story where it seems to have functioned as 393 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 3: a sort of awakening for her and when it comes 394 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 3: to class consciousness. So one day she said there was 395 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 3: a professor from Juilliard who came to play a symphony 396 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 3: for the students, and the professor invited them to take 397 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 3: a break between the first and second movements. He was like, 398 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 3: all right, I know that was a lot, y'all, go 399 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 3: take a break, go drink something. And the students were like, no, 400 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 3: I don't want to take a break. Let's keep going, 401 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: let's move forward. And Elizabeth had this idea that they 402 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: weren't interested in classical music. She thought had she thought 403 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 3: she was like, I had been ignorant to that fact. 404 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 3: And these experiences that she had in this school, she said, 405 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 3: were kind of a catalyst for the work that she 406 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 3: wanted to do. And here's another quote from her. She said, 407 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 3: I always had a superior feeling to these people. I 408 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: felt superior to my grandmother, who had been a house slave. 409 00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 3: I thought she should have been a field slave. And 410 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 3: I felt superior to my other grandmother, who sowed sacks 411 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 3: at the post office in Washington, because she had never 412 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 3: gone to school. And then Elizabeth went on to say 413 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 3: this as well, and I realized that I had a 414 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 3: debt that I hadn't paid, I'd had privileges that they 415 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 3: hadn't had. That didn't make me superior, it made me luckier. 416 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 3: So clearly a moment of humility, she had to humble 417 00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 3: herself here and just like self awareness for her to 418 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 3: be able to admit that to herself and then change course, 419 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 3: because I think it's kind of it's pretty relatable to 420 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 3: think about in these days too, because I feel like 421 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,280 Speaker 3: there's so much that I have in twenty twenty five 422 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:33,400 Speaker 3: that I take for granted, and it's easy to kind 423 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 3: of like lose sight of those things when you have 424 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 3: a level of comfort and convenience that comes along with 425 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 3: living the way that you do when you grow up, 426 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 3: and you know, with a relative amount of privilege. So 427 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,439 Speaker 3: I appreciated her saying that out loud, and also really 428 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 3: interesting to think about from someone who also I mean, 429 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 3: she was living in the early nineteen hundred. Still, it's 430 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 3: not like things were all and roses there either. And 431 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 3: she was also already before this pretty aware of what 432 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 3: clear I surmise you know, what enslavement meant, because she 433 00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 3: she'd heard all those stories about her grandparents and great 434 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 3: great grandparents. So yet very fascinating thing to hear her say. 435 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 3: But so her work at the Carver School ended up 436 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 3: inspiring her to get a Julius rosenwal Fun Fellowship to 437 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 3: produce a series of artworks on black women. Now, she 438 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 3: didn't make a lot of progress on that, another moment 439 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 3: of being like, I'm doing this teaching stuff, not having 440 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 3: so much time for my own things. So here comes 441 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 3: a big turn in her life of her going to Mexico. 442 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 3: Nineteen forty six. She and her husband went there. Her 443 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 3: marriage wasn't doing so hot at the time, but they 444 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 3: went to Mexico. She had become interested in murals and 445 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 3: graphic art, and these are a big part of Mexican 446 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 3: cultural and artistic history. So she had become interested in 447 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 3: the art that was being made there after the Mexican Revolution, 448 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 3: and she was really inspired by the art work and 449 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 3: how it was so socially engaged, the consciousness that was there, 450 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 3: and how accessible it was for everyday people. And her 451 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 3: plan was to stay in Mexico City for just a year, 452 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 3: studying sculpture at a government run school and making prints 453 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 3: at the Tayerra de Graphica popular the People's Graphic Arts workshop. 454 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 3: But what actually happened was that her marriage kind of 455 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,720 Speaker 3: blew up. She went back to the US to end it, yeah, 456 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 3: and then ended up going back to Mexico in nineteen 457 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 3: forty seven, and eventually she worked toward establishing permanent residents there. 458 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 3: So another part of her story that I'm like, I 459 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 3: was just like, WHOA, that's a big deal, right, Like, 460 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 3: that's a huge deal. I mean she had already moved 461 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,520 Speaker 3: different places in the United States and done so many 462 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 3: different jobs since she graduated. But yeah, saying I'm going 463 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 3: to stay somewhere for a year, and then that going 464 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,399 Speaker 3: to being I'm no longer with the person I was 465 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 3: married to, and I'm going back to that place outside 466 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 3: of the country to work on my own art alone 467 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 3: at the time now seemingly because it seems like it 468 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 3: was pretty quick that she fell in love with someone 469 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 3: else and his name was Francisco Mora. A little scandalous, right, 470 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 3: but he was an artist at the workshop as well, 471 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 3: and they ended up getting married very soon, like nineteen 472 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:49,159 Speaker 3: forty seven. So her series The Negro Woman that she 473 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 3: made from like nineteen forty six to nineteen forty seven 474 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 3: is made up of fifteen linoleum cuts with captions, and 475 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 3: she pretty much she she immediately ingrained herself in that workshop. 476 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 3: She immediately started working on art there. She had three sons. 477 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,920 Speaker 3: She had a son board in nineteen forty seven, one 478 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 3: born in forty nine, and then another born in nineteen 479 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,880 Speaker 3: fifty one, and eventually they all became artists themselves too. 480 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 3: But yes, so you start to see the evolution of 481 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 3: her prints that she was doing because she was making 482 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 3: a lot, it's a lot of volume here through this workshop. 483 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,640 Speaker 3: At first, these prints that she was creating, they had 484 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 3: a lot of harsh lines. Things were pretty angular in 485 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 3: the prints, and by the early nineteen fifties they ended 486 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 3: up becoming softer and more rounded. And she would make 487 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 3: these prints at the workshops in the evening, at the 488 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 3: workshop in the evenings, and then on Friday nights she 489 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 3: would go to the collective meetings, and so at these meetings, 490 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 3: because it was a socially engaged workshop, people would come 491 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 3: from other organizations asking for images that would support whatever 492 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 3: mission that that was critical to them at the time. 493 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 3: So the people in the workshop, including Elizabeth, would make 494 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 3: prints for them to be able to distribute as part 495 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 3: of uplifting their causes. And so Elizabeth ended up creating 496 00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 3: images of working women, laborers, like indigenous children, black mothers, 497 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 3: so on, and so forth, all these people that she 498 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 3: cared about that she was engaged in their causes, and 499 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 3: she was seeing these movements happened around her in the 500 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 3: United States and in Mexico. She herself was politically engaged. 501 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 3: In nineteen fifty eight, she actually ended up being arrested 502 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:41,959 Speaker 3: at a railroad workers protest. So she got arrested at 503 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 3: this protest, and the next year, nineteen fifty nine, this 504 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 3: is when her next first comes into play. So she 505 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 3: was the first woman's sculpture professor at the National School 506 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,720 Speaker 3: of Fine Arts at the National Autonomous New Recipe of Mexico, 507 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 3: and she taught there for many years until nineteen seventy five. 508 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 3: And she talked about how she was kind of moving 509 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,440 Speaker 3: through two different worlds in the workshop and then in 510 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 3: her work as a professor. Of course, one is more 511 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 3: socially engaged, she's making this work for herself, and the 512 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 3: other one is her work as an educator. She said, 513 00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 3: I'm thinking differently in the two mediums. In the printmaking, 514 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about something social or political, and in the sculpture, 515 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about form. But I'm also thinking about women, 516 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 3: black women. And it is clear too that in her printmaking, 517 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 3: like and across all of these spaces, she was thinking 518 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 3: about women and black women. But she sculpted in a 519 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 3: lot of different mediums. She sculpted in wood, stone, clay, 520 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 3: sometimes she cast in bronze, and she was inspired by 521 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 3: African and Prespanic sculpture. She said that she was inspired 522 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 3: by black not the female news of the European artists, 523 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 3: but the women of the African wood carvers and the 524 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 3: pre Hispanic stone carvers. And she also even called out 525 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:13,240 Speaker 3: the fact that, you know, abstract art was born in Africa. 526 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 3: So some of that encouragement that she had got earlier 527 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 3: in her days about turning to African sculpture as an 528 00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 3: inspiration for her work still stayed with her, and so 529 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 3: she was deeply engaged and rooted in that work. At 530 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 3: the same time. You know, like I said, in nineteen 531 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,680 Speaker 3: fifty eight, she had been arrested for going to this protest. 532 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 3: So in the United States there was this whole Macarthy era. 533 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 3: People were super afraid of communism, and the Graphic Arts 534 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 3: Workshop that she was working with was deemed a Communist 535 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 3: front organization, and because Elizabeth was involved with it, the 536 00:30:57,040 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 3: US embassy ended up harassing her throughout the nineteen fifth 537 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 3: and they actually banned her from even returning to the 538 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 3: United States. In nineteen sixty two, Okay, so not great, 539 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 3: but also not totally a problem for Elizabeth because in 540 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 3: nineteen sixty two she became a Mexican citizen. So she said, 541 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 3: I always got something for y'all. I always know how 542 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 3: to turn on a heel and know how to pivot. Okay, 543 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,920 Speaker 3: nobody's gonna hold me down. She was also, of course, 544 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 3: not discouraged from, you know, still being uplifting the civil rights, 545 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 3: black power and other movements that were happening in the 546 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 3: United States at the time, and actually in January of 547 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 3: nineteen seventy her work was featured in an Ebony magazine 548 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 3: article called My art Speaks for both my peoples, and 549 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 3: of course she's talking about the Mexican people's and her 550 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 3: people in the United States, and pretty cool to see 551 00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 3: how she had really stepped into this new culture in 552 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 3: Mexico that she had been inspired by before she got there, 553 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 3: and then when she got there, it was like it 554 00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 3: seemed like it was one of those things. It was 555 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 3: like it was everything I hoped it would be, because 556 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 3: you know, you can get somewhere and you're like, I 557 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 3: studied all this stuff about Mexican muralism, but when I 558 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 3: got there, things weren't feeling the same. Well, clearly what 559 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,800 Speaker 3: she got was what she needed when she went to 560 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 3: Mexico and was able to really assimilate and grow in 561 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 3: that environment. So yeah, that article in Ebony got her 562 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 3: more attention and got her invitations to show her work 563 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 3: in the United States, and she kept being denied entry 564 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,240 Speaker 3: into the United States until nineteen seventy one, where she 565 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 3: finally got a visa to go to the opening of 566 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 3: her solo show at the Studio Museum in Harlem, which 567 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 3: was her first show in the United States since she 568 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 3: exhibited her Negro Woman series in nineteen forty seven nineteen 569 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 3: forty eight, and that series was later renamed The Black Woman. 570 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 3: So yeah. She retired from teaching in nineteen seventy five, 571 00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 3: but she didn't stop making work. In nineteen ninety two, 572 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 3: she made a series of osset lithographs with her old 573 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 3: friend Margaret Walker Alexander, and the prints that she made 574 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 3: accompanied text from Margaret's poem for My People. So really 575 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 3: nice to see the continuity of their friendship and them 576 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 3: being able to collaborate in that way. And she was 577 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 3: also still a person of the people and exhibited her 578 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 3: work to express that she would show her work in 579 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 3: community centers, public libraries, HBCUs, galleries, museums, all types of places, 580 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 3: so that all types of people could be able to 581 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 3: access those shows and enjoy her work. And in two 582 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,719 Speaker 3: thousand and two she got her US citizenship back and 583 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 3: became a dual citizen in the United States in Mexico 584 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,840 Speaker 3: and Yeah, and continued to make her work. Her son, 585 00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 3: her youngest son, helped her with her sculptures in her 586 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,920 Speaker 3: later years, and in April of twenty ten, just after 587 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 3: she turned ninety five, her sculpture of Mahalia Jackson was 588 00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 3: unveiled in New Orleans. A lot of public sculptures of 589 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 3: hers that were put out, and she died on April second, 590 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 3: twenty twelve, in Cornovaca, Mexico, when she was ninety six 591 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 3: years old. Yeah, and that is the story of Elizabeth Catlet. 592 00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,440 Speaker 3: I'm so glad that you shared this with us. 593 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 2: She does have so many fantastic as you said, like 594 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:56,440 Speaker 2: pivots or things that I love that she was clearly 595 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 2: developing her ideas and thoughts but was opened to changing 596 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,200 Speaker 2: or having that kind of moment of humility or things 597 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 2: like that. But I do I also love the museum 598 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: story where she was just determined to share this passion 599 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 2: with younger people and knowing that she found a way 600 00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 2: and she was I also agreeve, So that's just a 601 00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 2: thinking about that and like the joy and having the 602 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,560 Speaker 2: critique and being so excited about that. That's just a 603 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,839 Speaker 2: beautiful moment that she made happen. Yeah, I love it. 604 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:37,480 Speaker 3: Yeah. And the way she thought about art was that 605 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 3: it was a necessary part of education, and there were 606 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 3: a lot of people who didn't fully have access to 607 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 3: things like museums, So I mean there is a dissonance 608 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:51,240 Speaker 3: there was like, Okay, it's a necessary part of education, 609 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 3: but everybody can't be educated in this way. So it 610 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 3: was clear that she was like, what ways can I 611 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 3: make this more accessible? And I mean her work, I 612 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 3: mean prints and printmaking is one of the most you know, 613 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 3: accessible forms of being able to deliver art to a 614 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 3: wide audience in the first place, and is one that 615 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 3: so many of us even to this day are familiar 616 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,720 Speaker 3: with interacting with and is a vehicle for so much 617 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 3: propaganda of different different parts of the spectrum, but also 618 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 3: like just popular art. And so it's clear that she 619 00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,000 Speaker 3: showed that through that form of her own personal art 620 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 3: making and then showed that through like making sculpture for 621 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,840 Speaker 3: public spaces, but also sculptures of people like like Mahelia Jackson, 622 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 3: who is also part of popular culture that a lot 623 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 3: of people would be familiar with, and then also just 624 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 3: through literally educating people as a professor. So it was 625 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 3: like she was able to take that mission and disseminated 626 00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 3: in all of the parts of her life that she 627 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 3: was sharing her art in, which I really appreciate, but 628 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 3: just all so I appreciate that like she had a 629 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 3: change of heart or change of mind, or she came 630 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:09,359 Speaker 3: to a new understanding and she acted on that so 631 00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 3: quickly and thoroughly comprehensively, and how she shared her art, 632 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 3: it was like, oh, I've been enlightened, my class consciousness 633 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:26,640 Speaker 3: has changed, and so I'm going to so dramatically figure 634 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 3: out a way for my lived way of sharing my 635 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 3: art to reflect my new consciousness. And I really appreciate 636 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,279 Speaker 3: that as an artist because it's like it's sometimes you're 637 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 3: learning new things all the time, and as an artist, 638 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 3: you might want to do new things or do things 639 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,680 Speaker 3: in a different way, and you're wondering how do I 640 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,120 Speaker 3: do that? And so to see her enacted so you know, 641 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:57,200 Speaker 3: courageously and maybe not fearlessly, I don't know, but in 642 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,439 Speaker 3: a way that was like, I'm committed to it. I'm 643 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 3: committed to the cause of going forth, pressing forward. I'm 644 00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:05,879 Speaker 3: on the front line and I'm going to get it done. 645 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,720 Speaker 3: And so it's cool to see that part of her story. 646 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 1: I mean, she's definitely the tale of just living life 647 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,960 Speaker 1: in change. And we've been doing talking about activists who 648 00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,960 Speaker 1: are artists, are people who even call themselves like artivists 649 00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: because we understand things like art does bring a lot 650 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: of insight and like political change and political shifts, and 651 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: we know printmaking historically is about rebellion and able to 652 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:38,840 Speaker 1: communicate with others, oftentimes in a way that was not 653 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: a thing previously. So having her doing these things all 654 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 1: through her life as a part of teaching as well 655 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,800 Speaker 1: as spreading, as well as understanding the importance behind its phenomenal, 656 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: Like that's her life story, is bringing about change as 657 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 1: she is changing and also teaching how to make change happen. 658 00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: That's a phenomenal way of being also great art. 659 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 4: Yeah yes, beautiful yeah, beautiful yes, beautiful thing too, Like 660 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 4: for those who saw maybe her show in the forties 661 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 4: and then had to wait thirty years because they didn't 662 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 4: go to Mexico or weren't having accessibility to see the shows. 663 00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: And then having her come back in the seventies to 664 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,080 Speaker 1: do finally another show, what kind of excitement, Like if 665 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: you've been studying art and you know about this, like 666 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 1: oh my god, it's happening, It's happening. Like the joy 667 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: of seeing her arm live again, I couldn't imagine. I 668 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,160 Speaker 1: just thought it, like, wow, that's thirty year difference and 669 00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:32,279 Speaker 1: waiting for that to happen. 670 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 3: That's actually a good point because it kind of I 671 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 3: could see how it could kind of it's clear that 672 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 3: the American like black American audiences embraced her artwork and 673 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 3: realized what she was doing at the time and appreciated 674 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 3: her work from a you know, technical and also contextual 675 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,080 Speaker 3: like you know, mindset. But I think it's interesting to 676 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,840 Speaker 3: think that like she it could feel like she's the 677 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 3: one that got away, Like it's it was brain drained, 678 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 3: like this amazing skilled person, this amazing talent, this amazing 679 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,920 Speaker 3: mind that you forced out of the United States. You know. 680 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 3: Of course there was agency in her going to Mexico. 681 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,560 Speaker 3: She wanted to study there, but she was also being 682 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 3: denied her place in the United States, the place that 683 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 3: she was born, because of you know, natural the racism 684 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,319 Speaker 3: that always existed there, but also all of the other 685 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 3: you know, anti communist sentiment and all of the other 686 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 3: problematic things that were happening at the time that made 687 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,799 Speaker 3: it so that she was basically an undesirable to the 688 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,920 Speaker 3: United States government, you know, kept her out of it. 689 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 3: So it was like the one that got away. It's like, 690 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 3: this is my person and she's saying, these are my 691 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 3: two peoples, Like this is my people. Those people in 692 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,319 Speaker 3: United States saying she's my people, and she's saying, these 693 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,759 Speaker 3: are my people. But like we can't be together, we 694 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,799 Speaker 3: can't be you know, I'm not welcome there. And so 695 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:58,919 Speaker 3: I would imagine it's like it's like it was kind 696 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 3: of a could be a homecoming for her where it's 697 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 3: like I'm back to this place that really charged and enlivened, 698 00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:16,520 Speaker 3: enlightened you know, my work and you know my manner 699 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 3: of thinking. So yeah, I think that's a good a 700 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,520 Speaker 3: good thing to think about, Samantha, that distance that was 701 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:29,760 Speaker 3: created and coming back after that long time, good works, 702 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:31,000 Speaker 3: beautiful art. 703 00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,800 Speaker 2: Yes, I also do a door that her and Margaret 704 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 2: stayed closed. Yeah, we love a good story of a friendship. 705 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 3: That's I love that. 706 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:45,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, well definitely check out the art listeners 707 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:49,719 Speaker 2: if you haven't seen it, it's really amazing and thank 708 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,319 Speaker 2: you so much Eves for making the time coming at 709 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 2: us from from Cape Town. 710 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,560 Speaker 3: We always love having you. Where can the good listeners 711 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 3: find you? Y'all can find me. You can just go 712 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,759 Speaker 3: to my website, which is Eves Jeffcote dot com. That's 713 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 3: spelled y V E S J E F F c 714 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,160 Speaker 3: A T dot com. You can sign up for my 715 00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,520 Speaker 3: newsletter there. You can pretty much get to all of 716 00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,600 Speaker 3: the other things from there, but you can also go 717 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 3: to my Instagram I'm at Not Apologizing and you can 718 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 3: message me contact me through there as well, and you 719 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,359 Speaker 3: can hear me on many other episodes of Stuff Mom 720 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 3: Never Told You with female first talking about women's accomplishments 721 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,839 Speaker 3: in history. 722 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 2: Yes, and go check out all of that stuff if 723 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:41,680 Speaker 2: you haven't already, listeners. If you would like to contact us, 724 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:43,759 Speaker 2: you can or email is hello at stuff I've Never 725 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,799 Speaker 2: Told You dot com. We're also on Blue Skype Mom 726 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 2: Stuff Podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've 727 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,920 Speaker 2: Never told you. We have a YouTube channel, we have 728 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,360 Speaker 2: some merchandise at Cotton Bureau, and we have a book 729 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 2: you can get where if you get your books. Thanks 730 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 2: as always, stare A super Disi Christina Executive PRUSA Maya 731 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,400 Speaker 2: and our contruder Joey. Thank you and thanks to you 732 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:03,919 Speaker 2: for listening stuff never told you Inspection by Heart Radio. 733 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check 734 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,640 Speaker 2: out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or where you 735 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 2: listen to your favorite shows.