1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: You you you know the board of your company when you 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: should know them right and when you're sitting in the 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: C suite or or have some kind of a role 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:10,680 Speaker 1: that requires that you interface with them on a regular 5 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: basis or any basis, that's fine. Otherwise I assure you 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: you will not become a member of the c suite 7 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: if you spend your time trying to get to know 8 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: your directors. You should try to spend your time getting 9 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: to know your job. I'm well, look as this is 10 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: black that green money, and I'm so excited to bring 11 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: you this episode because I was there in real time 12 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 1: when it happened. This is the conversation that happened at 13 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:40,960 Speaker 1: Afro Tech Executive in Brooklyn, and it was with the CEO, 14 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: the former CEO of ze Rox, Miss Ursula Burns, who 15 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: was CEO of Xerox from two thousand nine. She was 16 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,960 Speaker 1: the first black woman to be c O of a 17 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: Fortune five company and the first woman to see another 18 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: woman as head of a Fortune five visual company. Sister 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: all around. Most pertinent to today's conversation is her board roles. 20 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: Miss Burns sat on the boards of directors for more 21 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: than fifteen companies, including Boston Scientific University of Rochester, m 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: I T Corporation, American Express, Exim Mobile, Boolber, White Star, 23 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: and more. During this conversation, which was held at a 24 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 1: pro Tech executive Brooklyn, have you you had a recurring theme? 25 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: You should not miss another apro tech executive. By the way, 26 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna be in d C in a couple of weeks. 27 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: But anyway, back to today's conversation. She talked behind the 28 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: Highles managing partner at Black Ops Adventures and founder of 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 1: path Right. If you have any interests, listen to me. 30 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: If you have any interest in one day sitting on 31 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: a corporate board, listen. Keep your ears locked. And if 32 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: you want to build a big company, listen, keep your 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: ears locked. Because boards are where the decisions are made. 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: Boards are where you where they decided. If you're gonna 35 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: keep your job as CEO is a matter of fact. 36 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: Understanding how they work is the best thing you can 37 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: do with your next forty minutes. Give more. Welcome to 38 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 1: Ursula Burns to see you. Welcome. Yeah, where's my cousin? 39 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: Where's your cousin? Let's wait wait, where is she? Hi cousin? 40 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. She's my cousin And I 41 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: always call her my niece because she's so much younger. 42 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 1: It's her cousin. How your girlfriend. Yeah, we're glad you're here. Hey, 43 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here today. You are 44 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: again one of these amazing pioneers that has paved the 45 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: way and been a model to folks like myself and 46 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,799 Speaker 1: all the women in this room. So I want to 47 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 1: start by saying thank you so much for everything you've done, 48 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:20,959 Speaker 1: for being you. You know, I'm gonna give the real 49 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: brief version because you've done so much that we don't 50 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: have time to get into all that we want to 51 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: hear from you directly. Okay, Okay, we go, but you know, um, 52 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,920 Speaker 1: your your legendary position as the CEO of Xerox and 53 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: doing such a huge acquisition for them, and all the 54 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: other things that you've been doing. We want to hear 55 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: some of what you're doing today. UM. So I hope 56 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: we'll get into it. So thank you so much. UM. 57 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: We The last question we ended on I thought was 58 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 1: very helpful, UM, which was um, the question was is 59 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: it enough to be a black woman and be the director? 60 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: And Merlin's answer was absolutely not. And if a if 61 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: a person select you for a board just because of 62 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: your demographics, that's not the board for you. So I 63 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: think from the CEO UM perspective, what do constructive value 64 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: add directors look like and how do they behave versus 65 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: somebody who's kind of taking up airspace and and not 66 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: helping the management team do their thing. Yeah, I heard 67 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: the question the last couple of questions, and I must 68 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 1: say I don't agree. Okay, I absolutely don't agree. Let's 69 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: say this all the time. First of all, no company 70 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: is going to come to you and say you're totally 71 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,919 Speaker 1: not a knowledgeable about anything to do with business. But 72 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: but just because you happen to be black and a woman, 73 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: were going to put you on the board. So that 74 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: I mean, that's just not a viable company. So that 75 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: I would, I would just that's not a thing that 76 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: I mean unless they're absolutely dingdongs, which you wouldn't want 77 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: to be with anywhere. But so if they've come to you, 78 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 1: they found you, they look at some kind of a 79 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:58,719 Speaker 1: profile and the reason why you are the next person 80 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: that they would pick is because you're black or a woman. 81 00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:04,559 Speaker 1: I'd go just as quickly as not. For so long 82 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: we have been excluded because of the way that we look, 83 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: I absolutely tell you, I say this all the time. 84 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: It's about damn time that we were included because of 85 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: the way that we look. So I absolutely okay. Now, 86 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: this whole thing about being on boards, I gotta say, 87 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: this is the I've been on It's not always crack 88 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: up to be guys, be careful here. I mean, it's 89 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: good and it's fun, and it's all that stuff. You 90 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: don't get anywhere near as much money as you think. 91 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: It takes a ton of time. It's not doesn't always 92 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: take a ton of time, but when it takes a 93 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: ton of time, it takes a lot of time. And 94 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: you can't say things like I'm busy. They're like, well, 95 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: I mean that's the reason why you're sitting here. We 96 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: want you to be busy on this right, not on 97 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: other on other things. And sometimes it's just not fun. 98 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: I mean, you you know you're going the boys of 99 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: banks and insurance companies. Is that's not your thing? You 100 00:06:02,960 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 1: sit there and try to figure out what that am 101 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,039 Speaker 1: I doing here? That's the and then the last is 102 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: the group of people that you're with. Forget the management team, 103 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: but the directors. If they're not worth your time, don't 104 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: go because you'll it just isn't that much fun. It's 105 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: the thing that we're all running after now. But that 106 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: thing has been run through by white guys already, and 107 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 1: now they're handing it to us and saying, women and 108 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: you can do it right, we're coming. So I I 109 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: actually I like boards. Yeah, I like boards. I don't 110 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: get me wrong. It's an important thing to do. If 111 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 1: you can do it, you gotta be unbelievably selective. Unbelievably selective. 112 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: I mean, what are you selecting for. First of all, 113 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: the team with people that you're gonna be sitting around 114 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: the table with the other directors. Yeah. The second is 115 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: the company. I mean, you know I've been on What 116 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: are they doing? I mean, if you're not interested in 117 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: what they're doing? You know some In the beginning, of course, 118 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 1: I was highly just like everybody is here, I want 119 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 1: to be on one. So I picked a road striping company. 120 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: You know, the they they picked me. I didn't pick them, 121 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: they picked me. I had been by the way. It was. 122 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: It was fun. I ended up loving the guys. But 123 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: the product, I mean it was it was glass beads 124 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: for road striping. And I learned a lot from the company. 125 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: But when they you know, we would go on plant 126 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: tours and I be like, oh, what about doing so 127 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm making fun of it, but be careful, be aware 128 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: that this sounds great, but it takes a lot of 129 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: time and a lot of energy, and it takes a 130 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: lot of your emotional time. And you you know, you've 131 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: got to read stuff beforehand. You have to have some 132 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 1: reason besides just saying I'm on one that you want 133 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 1: to be involved. The last thing I'll say on this thing. 134 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: If you can get on a private company, go board 135 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: a pre I p O board. I would do it 136 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: every single day before I go on a public company board. 137 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: Every day you get paid more money, you get more 138 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: involved in the company. The chances of getting rich are 139 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: better in a public company. Literally, your compensation is contained 140 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: and reported to everyone. Every single year. You can't make 141 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: more than x l y money dollars. That's if you 142 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: have one meeting or five meetings. Literally, the same amount 143 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: of money goes whether you have one or five hundred. 144 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: You never have one, right you have six or seven. 145 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: But somebody talked about this. If you're in trouble, I'm 146 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: gonna board a x On mobile. X On Mobile just 147 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: had a proxy fight x on Mobile has ten meetings 148 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: a year normally Proxy Fight year. How about and you 149 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: just do you have to do them now. They make 150 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:45,319 Speaker 1: it a little bit easy for you. They've tried to 151 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: find the time that you can do it. But it's 152 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: not you know, it's not it's not all it's cracked 153 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: up to be. I would, I would really be careful 154 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: about running after this one last thing. I keep saying 155 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: the last thing. There is no way you can be 156 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: on four or five boards. Literally, proxy firms like last 157 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,319 Speaker 1: who was Succecha won't vote for you, you will literally, 158 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: it's not allowed. You have to be on a certain 159 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: number for your CEO. I was on three when I 160 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: was the CEO. Fortunately, two of them were easy, you know. 161 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: One of them was American Express, one of the best 162 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: round companies out there. Ken also amazing CEO. The board 163 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,599 Speaker 1: was phenomenal, so you could actually do that, and you 164 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: can do another one that's not so American Express was time, 165 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: but easy time, if you know what I mean. It 166 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: was not a crisis. Another company that was on was 167 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: a crisis and I took a lot of time. And 168 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:35,880 Speaker 1: then the third was in the middle. So it's not 169 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: the kind of thing that you do a lot of 170 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: and it's not you don't get rich and famous little don't. Yeah, 171 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 1: I want to push back on that, on that last point. Um, 172 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: so you're on the board or have been on the 173 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: board of Uber. I'm still on the boarder was still 174 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: on the bo board of Uber. So they've gone through 175 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Um, what's that been like, how 176 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: does that work? And how time consuming is it? Well? 177 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: I was on the board of I got on the 178 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 1: board of Uber out come of the mess, right, So 179 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 1: I wasn't I didn't. I wasn't cleing up. You weren't 180 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: in them. I wasn't clean up. Yeah, I wasn't clean up. 181 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: I was at the very I was the last board member, 182 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: myself and another guy named John Than who were put 183 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:17,959 Speaker 1: on by Travis. And if remember when this whole thing 184 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: blew up, Travis had three board seats as part of 185 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: his last as part of his last fight. He was 186 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: one and he picked two others myself and John were 187 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: And then soon after that, did you know, Travis, he 188 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: just picked you out of the Yeah, I mean there's 189 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: a lot of there's a whole bunch of stories behind 190 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: how you know, how you get picked for this crap. 191 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: But I'm trying to get the dirt for y'all. I 192 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: hope you appreciate this. Okay, you know I'm trying. I'm trying, Morgan, 193 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: I'm at a point in my life. This may sound 194 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: like both. I'm in a point in my life that 195 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: I asked I'm getting I get asked every day to 196 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: be on the board or something. Right, So it's now. 197 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: But at the at the end of the day, you say, well, 198 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: then it's all because the money is all pretty much 199 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: locked for your public it's pretty much there's a very 200 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 1: narrow band, so it's all you're picking for then is 201 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: the team of people and the content of the company. 202 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,280 Speaker 1: It's not about the money. Unless if private is better, 203 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,200 Speaker 1: like I keep saying, it's a it's a little bit easier. 204 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: There's definitely more upside um. You learn a lot more 205 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 1: because it's not as structured, so you have you have 206 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: to set it up yourself. You know. Part of the 207 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: part of going part of being private to go public, 208 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: is this whole idea of structuring the governance. So anyway, yeah, 209 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 1: I'm traveling. Uber turns out to be a really, really, 210 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: really great company. Okay, your experience is great, that's what 211 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,959 Speaker 1: you're saying, is there. There's everything about it now is 212 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: so they were in a lot of trouble, right and 213 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: they were, and it wasn't because of profitability. You know. 214 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: The story was just crazy place. Yeah, crazy culture, crazy leadership. 215 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: Actually probably maybe good at individual people. I never got 216 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,680 Speaker 1: to know them, but together they were definitely not a 217 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: group of people that you want to hang out with 218 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: a whole lot. And we when we went in, the 219 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: board was being restructured for this disaster, and so the 220 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: company was aware. Travis was even aware who Travis, who 221 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: are like and respect and think he's smart. He, like 222 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: I said, I don't think he could run a public company. 223 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: That's not his thing, right, he should have never gotten there. 224 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:25,599 Speaker 1: But um, I mean starting is good. I mean you 225 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: just go there's a point where you go a little 226 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: bit too far and it's not your specialty and you 227 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,439 Speaker 1: shouldn't really be engaged in it and it's the Peter principle. 228 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: But anyway, when you get on. We got on. We 229 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: realized quickly that this company was, you know, a small, 230 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 1: small I p O company with a market valuation of 231 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: sixty billion dollars. It's not it's like a this is 232 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,960 Speaker 1: not a game anymore, right, you have it, so you 233 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: have to actually adults in the room. And so they 234 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,720 Speaker 1: got old adults in the room, myself and John and 235 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: some other people who knew about things. But the thing 236 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: that was interesting was that they were also very aware 237 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: that they were on the edge in every country of 238 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: being just like debarred that they were hated. Right, they 239 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: were used, They were part of it. But they knew 240 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: that if they didn't do something, it would be a problem. 241 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: So fortunately they we were bought on the board the 242 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: last two but the whole board realized and the management 243 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: team we got to do something big, and so we 244 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: bought in the new CEO, Dara, who used to run Expedia. 245 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: He's amazing, he's really really good. This is you know, 246 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: he's the guy who I the firm, who I always 247 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: look into when we went through the Charles the George 248 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: Floyd thing. And they're voting the first company, the first 249 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: company that signed up for everything without reading the damn 250 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: papers that I'm in and this and this is the 251 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: influence you have by being on that board and talking 252 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: to the CEO and making sure that they can be 253 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,239 Speaker 1: responsive and what the kind of the kind of multiplier 254 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:57,199 Speaker 1: effect that has when something like George Floyd happened. So 255 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,719 Speaker 1: that's the influence and impact you get to have by 256 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: being on that that Uber is good. Uber is a 257 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: cool company. Exit Mobile is a little bit more challenging. 258 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: It's very structured, very legal, it's very risky. You know. 259 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: It's just it has a big operation in Russia. So 260 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: now we're sitting here going, okay, now what you know 261 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: not what are you're doing? You can't go visit it. 262 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: You can't you know, you have to get out. You 263 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: can't just leave because so you know it, it becomes 264 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,360 Speaker 1: very complicated. So you gotta be aware that with the 265 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: good comes to bad. When the bad comes, you gotta 266 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: do the work. Do you select certain or do you 267 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: have certain committees that you only serve on or always, always, always, 268 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: always every board that I'm on on on the Order 269 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: committee number one. Yeah, that that's where I started with 270 00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:43,000 Speaker 1: you to me, and I think it's such a good 271 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: learning experience, even for a company that's about to go public, 272 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,480 Speaker 1: knowing how you have to get everything in order, from 273 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: cybersecurity to your tax situation, all that has to be 274 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: clean before you go public. Knowing how to do all 275 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: that stuff from the audit perspective is every company needs that? 276 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: Is that? Why? Yeah, well well must I'm with a 277 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: sitting CEO, so I'm a certified financial experts. I can 278 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: do it. The problem with being on the Order committee 279 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 1: is that it's real work. This is not I mean, 280 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: I mean really like you have to sign your name 281 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: to stuff that I've read this. It's not like. It's 282 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: not like nominations and governance where you can get which 283 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: is how we gonna. Let's not slam. Now I'm good. 284 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: I take that very seriously. By the way, Terry, now 285 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: I'm gone. But I was just saying how important it is. 286 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: Not not so four committees what it is required. Nobody 287 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: wants to do it. Nobody wants to do it. It's 288 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: a lot. It's so if there are seven board meetings 289 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: in the year, they're ten Order committee meetings, right, So 290 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: it's just a lot more work. It's it is if 291 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,880 Speaker 1: you're not into it, kind of boring. And if you're 292 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: not good at it and don't just don't do it. 293 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 1: I mean, there's no reason to do it. There's a 294 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: lot of other things you can be doing. And I 295 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: just happen to like it and and be good at it. 296 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: That's the reason NONN is important, important and compensation is important, 297 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: so that two rocking committees are those two right now, 298 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: I'm and GOV, which is a whole bunch of glory 299 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: and comp which everybody seems to like you because you 300 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: control that, what with the salary, the CEO and other 301 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: people and some people like that. But I think any committee, 302 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: I think you know, any committee is fine. It's something 303 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: that you can be useful on, you can contribute to. Okay, 304 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: now I tried to get you to answer this, but 305 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna try again. Which is that, um, having been 306 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: the CEO, I know that you've had favorite directors, or 307 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: at least favorite directors, and I want to know more 308 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: about that so that when they get on the boards 309 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 1: they know how to really Like I've been told by 310 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 1: the CEO, I'm his favorite director. Right now, I'm like, 311 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly what I did, but I think 312 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,680 Speaker 1: it helps that I've been a CEO and I know 313 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: how to not micromanage, you know, give him alerts about 314 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 1: whatever it is. But what from your perspective, what makes 315 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: for a great director? Knowing what their jobs one of 316 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: the one of the big challenges always every board I've 317 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 1: ever been on small, big, private, public there's at least 318 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: one director who actually wants to run the company and 319 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: who who actually asked questions like you know, what was 320 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: the turnover of the popcorn? And it's like who that's 321 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:18,880 Speaker 1: not that's something that's interesting that you should probably talk 322 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,439 Speaker 1: to the CEO about over lunch, but it's not a 323 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 1: director level of question, and so knowing the most challenging 324 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: I've been CEO of two public companies. The most challenging 325 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: thing is a bad director. It is unbelievably bad. Um 326 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: It's very difficult for the CEO. It's usually very time 327 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: consuming for the rest of the board because they're generally 328 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: out of sync and a lot of you know, we 329 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: get down a lot of rabbit holes, and it's and 330 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: it's hard to get rid of a director. Once you 331 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: get them on. It's reputationally very challenging to just kind 332 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: of throw them off or you can't. You can't just 333 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: throw them off, and it's just very it's a very 334 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: challenging thing. So the first thing is to make sure 335 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: that you know what your what your job is, and 336 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: it's generally not to run the place. And if it is, 337 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: if you are trying to run into place. The CEO 338 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: should probably be changed. I mean, you got the wrong boss. 339 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: So that's what that person's job is. The other thing 340 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: is it did someone just asshole personalities that you just 341 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: don't want to be part of. And everybody has a 342 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: different swing lane that they're into, So let's make sure. 343 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: That's why it's really important to the the group that is 344 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: there already. Just make sure that you like the group 345 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: that's there. Okay, that's very helpful. Now for people who 346 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: are still coming up in their careers and they want to, um, 347 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: get experienced, to know how to interface with directors and 348 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. Um, are there things that 349 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: they should do to know the boards of director, like 350 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: the directors on their company or anything like that. Okay, Okay, 351 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: to be away from this is okay, it's a bad thing. 352 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: Stay away from this. You you know, the board of 353 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: your company when you should know them right and when 354 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: you're sitting in the c suite or or have some 355 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: kind of a role that requires that you interface with 356 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: them on a regular basis or any basis, that's fine. 357 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,399 Speaker 1: Otherwise I assure you you will not become a member 358 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 1: of the c suite if you spend your time trying 359 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: to get to know your directors. You should try to 360 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: spend your time getting to know your job, right because 361 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 1: it's it is really, really, really risky. This is not 362 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: a game of politics at this level, right, they are 363 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: governed into your operations. When you get in the governance, 364 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: then there's a lot of politics. But you can't play 365 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: politics when you're the surf and they're the king. Right, 366 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: So it's not the kind of thing that that you do. 367 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: You should just stay this is becoming right, So we 368 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 1: spend we're gonna spend five minutes talking about boards of 369 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 1: directors where the vast majority of people in this room 370 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: will never serve on one. Right. Before you do that, 371 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: you got to get to the point where people say, yeah, 372 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,199 Speaker 1: we want that person to serve on one. And the 373 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: way that you get there is that you have to 374 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: actually do work that somebody says that's reasonable. That's a 375 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: person who being the CFO of some company is a 376 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 1: really good idea. It's a good it's a good checkpoint 377 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: so you can get through. Being the CEO obviously is 378 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: a really good idea. If you have some really specific 379 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: tech skill, if you're a master at cybersecurity, if you're 380 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: good at digital marketing or are one of these things, 381 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: then you can be selected. But if you're just an 382 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: employee of a company, just it's not a bit just 383 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: it's not a demeaning just it's just like you just um, 384 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 1: if you're that, you know, spending your time to try 385 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: to maneuver your way into the boardroom, it's really not 386 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: the most useful. It's not the most useful thing. I 387 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 1: if I could say over and over again, guys, when 388 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: it comes, it will come. Look for it. Don't spend 389 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: your time not looking, you know, look for it occasionally. 390 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 1: When it comes, it will come, and you'll be ready. 391 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: If you get there before you ready, it's a waste 392 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: of goddamn time. It's not that much money, and it's 393 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,239 Speaker 1: it's it's just it. Yeah, And it's not that much 394 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: fame and fortune unless you get unless you get on 395 00:20:55,840 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: the board of Apple, Amazon, let's talk to this fifties 396 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:02,720 Speaker 1: that you if you can get on the board of 397 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: Airbnb before it goes you know, those kinds of companies, Yeah, 398 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: that's great. Otherwise it's just otherwise you're an unsung hero. 399 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: It's for your gratification, Okay, it's just work. Okay, great, excellent, 400 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: got it? Um Okay? I think yes, she is so 401 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 1: real and that's why we love law Burns. By the way, 402 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: we we we have to You know, most of us 403 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: are first generation. You were telling me about your background. 404 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: We're all brand new to this stuff. And if we 405 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: don't share the information with each other about what it's 406 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: like in these different positions, I don't know who's gonna 407 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: tell us because they don't really want us to be 408 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: part of the whole scene. Necessarily very good. The point 409 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: they do not want us to be part of this scene. 410 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: It is structured. This scene is structured. So I spent 411 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about this in such a 412 00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: way that they can just side when they want you 413 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,360 Speaker 1: right there. It's just it's and that's all BS right, 414 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: because there's we We launched this thing called the Board 415 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:12,320 Speaker 1: Diversity Action Alliance. Right. This was after George Floyd, myself, 416 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: Gabby Salzburger, Darren Walker from the Ford Foundation accompany them 417 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: Engage were called Tono and the e l C. Why 418 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,640 Speaker 1: George Floyd gets murdered by the police. Uh that day 419 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,199 Speaker 1: I had flown to London. I got a call from 420 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 1: a very very good friend who happens to be the 421 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: CEO of a sporting good company from in Europe. You 422 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: can kind of deduce down to what company it is. 423 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:43,160 Speaker 1: And okay, he's a great guy from Austria. I said, 424 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: you know, I just want to talk to you about 425 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: this what happened. And I think I got this right. 426 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: But and he really great conversation, really really good man. 427 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: And I said to him, but you know, great, didn't 428 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: call me anytime if you need any more. I accept 429 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: him at the end, why why are you talking to 430 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,880 Speaker 1: me about this? Why didn't you call stupid me? Why 431 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,159 Speaker 1: didn't you just talk to one of your directors or 432 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,960 Speaker 1: And he said, well, we don't have any director black directors. 433 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: It's interesting, he said, Okay, I can get I can 434 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: maybe figure it out. I said, but how about the 435 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:19,239 Speaker 1: management team. None who's his biggest his biggest customers. They 436 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: look like us. They're playing basketball, they're doing whatever the 437 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,679 Speaker 1: hell you do, football and all of this stuff. They 438 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,679 Speaker 1: don't do football but soccer, you know, global sc And 439 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 1: I said to him, you mean to tell me that 440 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 1: you run this whole company and you see nobody who 441 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:37,679 Speaker 1: looks like the clients that you serve. Next, call some 442 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: of the company. I talked to Darren, he had gotten calls. 443 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,959 Speaker 1: Gabby was the CEO, was the chair of Whole Foods, 444 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:46,639 Speaker 1: if you know, right when it was sold to Amazon. 445 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: And we got together and we were like, this is 446 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,199 Speaker 1: really strange that all these people who are calling us 447 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: great people at least called right and are curious they 448 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: the reason why they called us is because we're the 449 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: closest thing to a black person they see anytime. So 450 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: we decided that we were gonna start this thing called 451 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 1: the b d A, the Board Diversity Action A lines 452 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,080 Speaker 1: and basically what it is simple simple. Every company in 453 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 1: the fortune fire founder now we've done it to the 454 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:14,080 Speaker 1: Russell three thousand has to have at least one black director. 455 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,120 Speaker 1: I don't care, it doesn't matter what you do right now. 456 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: We got into a lot of trouble on this because 457 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,359 Speaker 1: we didn't say black or brown, so the Hispanics thought 458 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 1: we were and so we did change it, so now 459 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,439 Speaker 1: I will say black or brown director. And if you 460 00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: have one, you should get a second. Right. If you 461 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: have a second, maybe you should get a third. Right exactly, 462 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: because there's this there's this belief and and this is 463 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: what came out. You should look at some of the 464 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: newsreels that when we launched this thing, it's all over 465 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: the newspapers. We had a question that came from Andrew 466 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,119 Speaker 1: ros Saukin, who's a really cool guy reporter, you know, 467 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: and he said, well, won't some of these people believe that. 468 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: The question was like, the current directors are gonna feel 469 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: kind of bad because as you're taking their seats. I said, 470 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:10,320 Speaker 1: it's interesting their seats. It's an interesting phraseology it belongs. 471 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: And I said to him that means that they own 472 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: these things, right, and then we are now taking something 473 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: that they own. And the theory of the case that 474 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: we even have is that there is that they own 475 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 1: this space and now so we just have to flip 476 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: it around and we have to say the why aren't 477 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: there eight black directors? Right? And and that's what I've 478 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: always said is that your board of directors should reflect 479 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: your customer base. And so if, yeah, if your customers 480 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 1: are black, maybe you ought to have black directors. I mean, 481 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,679 Speaker 1: that's what makes sense, right, So it's it's I just 482 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: think that obviously all I did is just present. What 483 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: we did was just present a problem, right, So they 484 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: believe it or not, they still have the seats we 485 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: are still outside trying to get the seats, and okay, 486 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: we'll keep playing that game, right, make sure you get 487 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: the right ones and you have fun and all that stuff. 488 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 1: Played that game. When you get inside, you absolutely have 489 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: to be an advocate or else there's no you know, 490 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,120 Speaker 1: by the way, you know, I've come a little bit 491 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: around this. You don't have to be an advocate advocate. 492 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: But then, don't call yourself a black director, right, just 493 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,080 Speaker 1: call yourself a director, just a regular director, rector you're 494 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: a director? And why do we not not everyone has 495 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: to do everything all the time, right, So you can 496 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: say I don't want to do that right now, you 497 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: got it, I got it. I don't want to do 498 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,880 Speaker 1: that in this company. Got it. But you can't kind 499 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 1: of get the the accolades and the distinction and then 500 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: not actually contribute to the solution. And that is something 501 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 1: that I've kind of had. I've seen there's some women 502 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: black people who stack up a lot of boards and 503 00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: they get a lot of credit for that. They haven't 504 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,320 Speaker 1: necessarily brought any other people at the table. I don't 505 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,359 Speaker 1: begrudge them. I'm happy for them. But it's a different 506 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: thing if you're doing what Merline is doing where you're 507 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: literally working to get more black people at to those tables. 508 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: It's always a sensitive thing, right, So you go to 509 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: a company to to serve the company, right, to serve 510 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: the share you're the representative of the shareholders of the company. 511 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: So you're not the representative of black people, but well, 512 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: or women or but there's a big butt. You are 513 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,080 Speaker 1: a black person and a woman, right, so you you 514 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 1: you bring to that role of representing the shareholder is 515 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 1: a point of view that is different from the point 516 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 1: of view presumably, and I from experience, it's true of 517 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: a white man, or of a man if you're a 518 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: woman so, or of a of a gay or lesbian 519 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: person if you're straight. Right, So all these things walk 520 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,600 Speaker 1: into the room. It's really important to understand that if 521 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: you shed them when you walk into the room, they 522 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: could have just gotten a regular white guy to do it. 523 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: I mean, it didn't really need that. I have a 524 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: lot of them are ready. So so yeah, what can't 525 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,119 Speaker 1: be your job Only that's not the thing that you 526 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: Now you have fiducial responsibilities and you have to meet 527 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,960 Speaker 1: those first and foremost. Where you shouldn't be at the table. Um, Okay, 528 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: I know we have some burning questions. I've been hogging 529 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: all the questions, UM, I have for about three or 530 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: four questions. Please make them scinct. Five questions, five questions. 531 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: We're going right here. I think there are five hands up, 532 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: so it's perfect. Yes, all right, don't drop the chair now, 533 00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 1: all right there, good afternoon. I'm bringing Cole from Nashville, Tennessee, 534 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: CEO of Career Thrivers. We help corporations retain diverse talent. 535 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: So two quick questions. One will you sign my book 536 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: for a good friend of mine? Uh? And my second 537 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,800 Speaker 1: question absolutely, thank you. It's phenomenal by the way. UM. 538 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: And I want to say thank you for UM. I'm 539 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: here because I'm just as good as you. In the 540 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,479 Speaker 1: Harvard Business Review, the article interview that you did, and 541 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: in that interview you talked about there was a question about, 542 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: you know, obviously there's this resurgence, will call it that 543 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: of D E and I, and what is the solution 544 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: for seeing more black faces inside of corporate corporations? And 545 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: you your answer was numbers, numbers, numbers, and why I 546 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,200 Speaker 1: would agree with you. You all hit on this. UM. 547 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: I think it's a bit of a generational um thing 548 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,920 Speaker 1: where perhaps um. More millennial black professionals and black women 549 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 1: specifically kind of run up against the you know, stay 550 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,480 Speaker 1: in your place, UM, make sure you, you know, serve 551 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 1: your time before you can get to executive level levels 552 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: of leadership from older, more seasoned black women. So what 553 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: would you say, UM to perhaps mid career women that 554 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,160 Speaker 1: are in the room today who are being met by 555 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: resistance from women who look like them inside of corporations. 556 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: I love that we're keeping the reel in the room. 557 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: Thank you. I I halfway through that question, I was agreeing. 558 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: I was agree or disagreeing with you, but agreeing with 559 00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: the with the protagonist of you know, do your things 560 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: serve your time, because there is a lot to be 561 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: said about that, and talked about this in the book. 562 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 1: It is amazing to me the number of people who 563 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: literally I meet with them all the time, and I've 564 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: been meeting and I say, what do you want to do? 565 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,720 Speaker 1: And they say I want to be a vice president 566 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: And I say, of what so it doesn't matter? They say, 567 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter anything, and that thinking is what stay 568 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 1: in your place do some things. It is trying to counteract, right, 569 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: is trying to counteract this. It doesn't matter what the hell. 570 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: I just want to get there. It doesn't matter whether 571 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: I know how the place runs. It doesn't. So, but 572 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: I do believe that there is always that there has 573 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: always been. And some of the staunches, um, what's a 574 00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: negative advocate? Whatever? The hey, who are uh? That's that 575 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: looks exactly like you and it's and I've I run 576 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: into it a lot more from women to women, because 577 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: there's not When I was coming up, they were not 578 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,719 Speaker 1: a lot of black women, but women to women it 579 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,600 Speaker 1: was a big deal. And you know, all you do 580 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: is you push, you keep pushing. It's not I mean 581 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 1: a lot has to do with the situation that you're in, 582 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: the company that you're in, how powerful the person is. 583 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: One of the things my husband used to tell me 584 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: all the time. He would say to me, Ursula, this 585 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: is not slavery. If you if it ain't working for you, 586 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: go find another place. Right. So these are all these 587 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: things have to be options for you. Generally, companies don't 588 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: hire you and executives don't have you in roles if 589 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: you're subordinate to them for you to do a bad job. 590 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: They actually need you to be successful. So you have 591 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to maneuver around blockers and haters. Sometimes. 592 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: My approach, which is not everybody's approach, and I would 593 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: not suggest it for everyone, is I am extremely direct. 594 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: I have been, and it's worked. It's worked, but it 595 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 1: doesn't work for everyone. And if you're not, if that's 596 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: not how you roll, it's it's a damn show, won't 597 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: work for you, right, So you have to find the 598 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: way that you do it. You know who your advocates are. 599 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 1: There are lots of different ways around, but make sure 600 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: that you're aware that you have the ultimate option to 601 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,520 Speaker 1: find another job and then you don't have to stay anywhere. 602 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: Thank you. And and what I always tell my daughter 603 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 1: is there are no shortcuts for being for mastering your skill, 604 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 1: your trade set. If it's fine, if it's if it's writing, whatever, 605 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: there are no shortcuts. And and I'm sorry for that information, 606 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 1: but it's it's it's the fact. Um, Okay, where's the 607 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: next question? Have it over here while questions are coming, 608 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: Bring me your book and a pen. What's your name? 609 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: Anybody else has a book? Bring me a book and 610 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 1: your pen because I'll sign them when I'm answering questions. 611 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,800 Speaker 1: See how efficient she is? She's efficient, organized, this is 612 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: a leader works. I was just about to say direct 613 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,560 Speaker 1: and deficient. Thank you so much for being here. Good afternoon. 614 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: My name is Tono bos I am a chief staff 615 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: at Harlem Capital Diversity Focus venture capital firm. I wanted 616 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: to I wanted to ask, because you've had the opportunity 617 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,800 Speaker 1: to not just be an independent board member but also 618 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: a CEO and a chairwoman. I want to ask for 619 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: the CEOs in the room, or even the future CEOs, 620 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: what do you think about when putting together your board, 621 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 1: Because when it comes to diverse founders and CEOs, often 622 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: they may get to a point where they're putting together 623 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: a board and they've never been on a board. So 624 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,000 Speaker 1: I really want to think about what can CEOs do 625 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: to build a board that supports them and helps elevate them. Question, 626 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: it's a great question, um My, very really do I 627 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: I've never had the ability to build a board, you know. 628 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: I've always had the situation where I come into a 629 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: company or come into a board that already exists. So 630 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: and I'm the latest add to a pretty historical, long 631 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,799 Speaker 1: running set of relationships. But I as a CEO when 632 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: I and by the way, as a CEO the same 633 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: so if I'm the CEO, I generally get elevated into 634 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: a role in The people sitting around the table picked me, right, 635 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,960 Speaker 1: So I don't. I didn't pick them, It's just the 636 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: way it happens to be. First, is the technical responsibility 637 00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: of a of a board, of a director is important 638 00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: to understand. It's important to know what fiducier you know, 639 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,560 Speaker 1: what's the what are the duties of care, what are 640 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 1: the duties of loyalty. It's important to know kind of 641 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,280 Speaker 1: really what you do. It's important to know the structure 642 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: of committees and what skills are needed. It's important to 643 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: actually know the facts and data of the job and 644 00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,760 Speaker 1: not you know because all the rest of it is glory. 645 00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: But you don't get there unless you know the fact 646 00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: dat of the of the job. I want board members 647 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: who are pushers, right. One of the things about boards, 648 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: and one of the things about CEOs is they need 649 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,799 Speaker 1: permission to take risks. The toughest thing about running a 650 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 1: company is that you have choices to make and all 651 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,040 Speaker 1: not all the choices are equal, and and you have 652 00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,000 Speaker 1: to figure out a way one of the you know 653 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 1: every day, which which you know the five things? Which 654 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: is the best to do. Sometimes they're small choices, but 655 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,479 Speaker 1: in your career you'll probably run over run into four 656 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: or five pretty important ones. The combination buying this company 657 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: a CS was I mean, this is like, what the hell? What, 658 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: how did this happen? Where did this come from? How 659 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: would you get permission to take that kind of risk? 660 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: So having a board that can help you think through 661 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: these kinds of expansive moves are important. So I look 662 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: at people who feel gaps that I have people if 663 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: I people who can work with the to the team, 664 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: like I said, uh bad director takes energy that's unbelievable 665 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: and time to manage, and it's your responsibility if you're 666 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,800 Speaker 1: the chair I was a chairing CEO, And it's a 667 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: whole bunch of crap about being both. But if you 668 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,959 Speaker 1: happen to be both, then you a lot of time 669 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 1: in managing that. But if this is the whole thing 670 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: about there is a job to be done, it's not 671 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,200 Speaker 1: a It's kind of like if you were the CFO, 672 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: there's a job to be done. If your board directors 673 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: a job to be done, learning that job, the technicals 674 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:28,759 Speaker 1: of that job, and doing that well with the team, 675 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: isn't it is the most important things, and I'll just 676 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,400 Speaker 1: chime into that or so, I think a lot of 677 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,279 Speaker 1: new CEOs and founders have no idea about how much 678 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: power and how important the board of directors is. In fact, 679 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: I'm writing a piece that I'm about to post on 680 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,320 Speaker 1: Monday in honor of this session for that very reason. 681 00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:52,320 Speaker 1: And we do a similar stage black ops ventures in Harlem, 682 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: Capital of Investing, and so it's usually the first price round. 683 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: And at that stage you need directors who are going 684 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: to get you your wall to wall enterprise customers, or 685 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: who can help you build the strategy, have the relationships 686 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,880 Speaker 1: and networks to help you grow your company into a 687 00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:11,760 Speaker 1: billion dollar company. So, um who you have at that table? 688 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: And also are they thinking about the best interest of 689 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 1: the company and the people who got the company off 690 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,799 Speaker 1: the ground, or they're thinking about the best interests of 691 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: their portfolio first, UM I went through a tough experience 692 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: where my board forced me to sell to one of 693 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: UM my board members. UM I wish I was still 694 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: running the company today. So you you really, founders so 695 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: often don't understand how important the directors are. So I 696 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: think that's a great question. That's really funny because I 697 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: think this is I love this topic right, because what 698 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 1: happens the version at the end, what happens with quote 699 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,040 Speaker 1: unquote these entrepreneurs. Everybody, everybody I run too into is 700 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: an entrepreneur. Everybody, what do you do? I'm an entrepreneur, Okay, 701 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: I guessually entrepreneur. Everybody's an entrepreneur, and everybody wants to 702 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: start their own company, which is which is what an entrepreneur, 703 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: I guess does. And they all want them to be 704 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 1: a billion dollar company, and they all want money to 705 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 1: fund it. This is where I remember saying this to 706 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: Travis school Like I said, I still have a lot 707 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: of time for Travis. I think he's a great guy. 708 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: I said, you lost control when you took other people's money. 709 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 1: Make sure you understand it's not your money. It's not 710 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 1: your company anymore. So if you want to treat it 711 00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:33,520 Speaker 1: like it's your little company, don't ask other people for 712 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,680 Speaker 1: investments in it. They can say to you, I, you 713 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,399 Speaker 1: own ten percent of it, now we own ninety. It's 714 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,880 Speaker 1: time to sell, right exactly. But when you when you 715 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: met cross that line. It's so funny how many people 716 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,719 Speaker 1: say this to me, Well, my board one fem like 717 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: it's yeah, because you work for them now, right, because 718 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: what we're trying to say here you took their money. 719 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: You can't actually take the money and actually act like 720 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:04,080 Speaker 1: they're the owners. So it's a by the way, then 721 00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,600 Speaker 1: go off and start another company, right, that's what you do, right, 722 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: and then and then and then and then and then 723 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: and then So anyway, thank you. I have her last 724 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: question right here. She has a flight to catch she 725 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,439 Speaker 1: has a flight to catch them. Sorry. So fifteen years ago, 726 00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:21,680 Speaker 1: a girl is walking down the street and says ursula, 727 00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: and you turn around and looked at me as if 728 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 1: who is this woman? So fast forward fifteen years later. 729 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: It's amazing to see you again. I am a tech 730 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: founder and CEO. M Tech is a company. We are 731 00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: modernizing central banks and emerging markets and in the US. 732 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: My question to you, how do I know going public 733 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: is for me? Genuinely you are forced. It's it's not 734 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: a choice that you have that you can make. Genuinely, 735 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: you are. You get there because you can no longer 736 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: garner the credibility you need. So if you have a 737 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:07,080 Speaker 1: lot of enterprise customers, people are not gonna sign big 738 00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: contracts with you know, ding Dung company. As good as 739 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: you you seem you are or you need money, so 740 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 1: you need or access to significant sums of money. So 741 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: very really do you have the luxury of you You 742 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,319 Speaker 1: may have the luxury of timing, but you generally don't 743 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:28,160 Speaker 1: have the luxury for good reasons of like just saying 744 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:29,920 Speaker 1: I can keep going, I can keep going for a 745 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,879 Speaker 1: long time, but I tell you, for as long as 746 00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,839 Speaker 1: you can stay private, I would stay private for as 747 00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: long as I could stay private. There's a point where 748 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:44,640 Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense anymore, right where it's just trapped value. Um, 749 00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:47,040 Speaker 1: you can't get the talent that you need because they 750 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,839 Speaker 1: they won't come unless they have some way to get 751 00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 1: some kind of equity. That's reasonable, but generally you you 752 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,920 Speaker 1: put on what what happens is you take you become 753 00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:01,040 Speaker 1: an adult, a regulated adult adult, and that's you just 754 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,279 Speaker 1: have to prepare for it. And if I think it's 755 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,399 Speaker 1: generally good for companies when you have to go through 756 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,799 Speaker 1: the hurdles of meeting Sarbanes Oxley reporting requirements, having some 757 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: kind of a comp committee that has some kind of 758 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: instructions that you have to do earnest I think that's 759 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: pretty good. But there's a point you'll know when it's 760 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,600 Speaker 1: it's just not for you. But there's a point where 761 00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: it's you wait too long, you can't, you can't do it. 762 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: There are very few, very large, not family owned, There 763 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:32,440 Speaker 1: are very very few, very large, enterprise level private companies. 764 00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:37,680 Speaker 1: You just need talent, you need money, you need access, 765 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:41,919 Speaker 1: you need the credibility of a set of ordered financials 766 00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:46,920 Speaker 1: and running through a whole bunch of groops. Emotionally, I 767 00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: would wait as long as post because it's it's it's 768 00:41:50,719 --> 00:42:03,800 Speaker 1: a lot of work. Black Tech Green Money is the 769 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,359 Speaker 1: production of Black of the Afro Tech on the Black 770 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network and iHeart Media, and it's produced by 771 00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: Morgan Dubonn and me Well Lucas, with addition to production 772 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: support by Love Beach and Marissa Lewis. Especially thank you 773 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: to Michael Davis, Germain Hall, and Vanessa Serranto. Learn more 774 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: about my guests and other texts Rother's innovators at afro 775 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: tech dot com. The video first of other episode We'll 776 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:28,719 Speaker 1: talk the Black Tech Green Money on YouTube, So tap 777 00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,879 Speaker 1: in enjoy your Black Tech Green Money. He was five 778 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:37,520 Speaker 1: star rating on iTunes. Go get your money. He's in 779 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 1: love