WEBVTT - Jeremy | Chapter 6 - Walk Down that Road 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.680 In December of twenty twenty four, I returned to Polk 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:15.280 County to give a talk about all my reporting in 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:19.440 central Florida. It was a cold winter evening in Lakeland, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:24.560 and downtown shimmered with Christmas decorations. I was just about 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:27.280 to enter the lobby the Polk Theater when people were 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.040 already milling about, when I saw a man in a 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.080 flannel jacket and a leather vest walking toward me on 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:39.640 the sidewalk. It was Leo, surprising me. He had a 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.200 big smile on his face and be hugged right there 0:00:42.200 --> 0:00:45.800 on the street. It must be pretty surreal being back 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:50.320 in Lakeland, I said. Together, we walked into the theater 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:54.040 lobby and Leo was swarm by Bone Valley fans who 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:58.800 approached him for photos and conversation. I watched him drift 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:02.440 through the crowd, chatting with everyone, even a Polk County 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:05.320 deputy who said he just finished listening to the podcast. 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.840 After I finished my talk, I brought Leo onto the stage. 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.640 So are there any updates that you can share about Leo? 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:20.280 Well, there's very interesting update where some of you are aware, 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:21.639 but mister Schofield, Leo. 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:27.240 Scofield is here tonight. Yes, Leo, where are you buddy? 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.280 We sat down next to me and took questions from 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:31.880 the audience. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:35.160 Leo, can you tell us how you're doing on the 0:01:35.240 --> 0:01:38.000 day to day, you and Chrissy and with your grand babies. 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:40.040 Just tell us about your life, because we are so 0:01:40.160 --> 0:01:41.760 thrilled to see you here tonight. 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:43.840 Yeah, thank you so much for that. 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:48.440 I'm doing great. This is a very surreal moment for 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.320 me because I was just sitting there thinking he was. 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:54.360 As graceful as ever, sharing memories of his years in 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:57.880 Lakeland and the decades long fight to prove his innocence 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:00.880 and thank you Leo. At the end the night, he 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.320 received a standing ovation and he lingered for more photos 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:11.560 with fans. It was late now, and I walked him 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:15.120 to his bike. He pulled his helmet down, swung his 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:20.880 leg over as Harley Davidson, and fired it up. For 0:02:20.960 --> 0:02:25.040 a moment, he just sat there, smiling, proud, like a 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.840 man who had returned to Polk County and finally took 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.840 back a piece of himself. Then he rode off and 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.720 I watched the red glow of his tail light disappear 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:52.800 into the night. The next time I saw him a 0:02:52.880 --> 0:02:55.520 month later, he wasn't on a bike. He was in 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.200 a hospital bed. Leo had been riding his Harley one night, 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:02.359 his dog Ashley on the back when a driver made 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:04.800 a sudden left turn in front of them. There was 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:09.560 no time to stop. Leo suffered an open book pelvis fracture, 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.440 a torn bladder, a broken back, and shattered hands, wrists, 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:18.359 and an ankle. Ashley's injuries were only slightly less severe. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:21.480 Leo told me the pain was unbearable, with plates and 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.600 screws now holding his body together. He worried about whether 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:29.560 he'd ever walk again, let alone play guitar. He was 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:31.400 laying in a bed in the living room with the 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.720 home he now shared with his wife, Chrissy. Due to 0:03:34.760 --> 0:03:38.600 the severity of Leo's accident, the Florida Parole Commission allowed 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:41.280 him to leave the half way house and move home. 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:46.360 I'd come to visit Leo partly because something interesting had 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:49.960 come up in my ongoing investigation, something I'd never known 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:54.120 before and something that could make a difference. I was 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.240 just telling Leo about it when I got a phone call. 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.240 I looked at the screen and saw who it was, 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.680 showed it to Leo, whose eyes widened. Should I take this, 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.920 I asked him. He nodded and sat up straight. 0:04:10.960 --> 0:04:26.400 Hey you there, Hey, Jeremy. 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:33.800 Do you my man? I have to have my feet. 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:47.920 Sru step sorry list in this vastly tear uh see 0:04:49.080 --> 0:05:18.240 relation a breach Things. 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:32.679 Bone Valley, Season two, Jeremy, Chapter six, Walk down that Road. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:39.680 The news I was telling Leo that day was about Jeremy. 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:42.880 He had called me a few weeks earlier from the 0:05:42.920 --> 0:05:45.359 new prison he'd been transferred to, and he was in 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.799 a pretty decent mood. So I asked him a question 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.120 I'd always been curious about. It was about something he'd 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:54.960 said in court when the State of Florida was deciding 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.760 whether Jeremy's confession was enough to grant Leo a new trial. 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.520 Do you remember in twenty seventeen when they brought you 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:07.320 back to the evidentiary hearing, that woman Victoria Avalon, she 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:09.479 was the one that questioned you for the state. 0:06:10.040 --> 0:06:11.120 Yeah, she was fashion me. 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:17.080 In this hearing. Prosecutor of Victoria Avalon approached Jeremy and 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:20.440 showed him a picture that she shielded from the gallery. 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:23.960 You know what her big thing was When she showed 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:26.040 you the picture and she said, look at this. 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:29.919 As soon as Jeremy saw it, he turned his head away. 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.000 He didn't want to look, said he'd seen it before. 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:35.599 See it again. 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:38.360 Is this what you did to Huff? 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.080 No, I didn't hear that answer. 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:46.240 No I didn't do it. 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.920 I wanted to know what picture Avalon had showed him 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:54.160 and what Jeremy really meant when he said, no, I 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:54.720 didn't do that. 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.560 Ye showed me a naked picture picture of Michelle. 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.760 Yeah, yeah, Michelle and you. 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:04.919 You you you said I didn't do that. 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:07.240 The way the way is the way they was trying 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:09.640 to say that I raped her. That's but that's what 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:12.360 these people is getting an idea of brom from her. 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:14.760 So that's what that's what you thought. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.160 Yeah, she only had a dead picture, no way, No, No, 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.400 they don't know she had all her clothes on, she 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:26.920 had jury on everything. Yeah, I mean, but this is 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:28.640 the way they came at me. Would that you know, 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:29.520 showing me the picture? 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:29.800 Right? 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:33.679 The autopsy reports said there was no sexual anything. 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:34.920 There's no evidence of that. 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:35.640 Yeah. 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.000 No, that's well, that's why that's what makes killing me. 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.800 On the stand. He thought that Avalon was accusing him 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.840 of raping Michelle, that he left her like that naked 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:50.360 at the crime scene, something he knew was not true. 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.480 I'm sorry, man, Well I don't. I might be. 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:57.720 I might. I might do a lot of crazy stuff 0:07:57.760 --> 0:07:59.480 in my in my life, man, but I ain't. I 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:00.800 ain't part there. 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.840 Avalon argued to the judge that when Jeremy said no, 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:10.080 I didn't do that, he was recanting his confession, and 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:14.680 the Polk County judge agreed. He ruled that Jeremy had recanted, 0:08:15.400 --> 0:08:18.920 and with that, Leo Schofield was denied a new trial, 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.400 even though some of Jeremy's last words in the hearing 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.000 were I killed her. 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:27.520 I still don't understand why I did it that night. 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:30.560 I can't say alcohol did. 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:32.680 It, where drugs didn't, whatever, because. 0:08:32.440 --> 0:08:33.640 It's still make no ex q C in it. 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:43.760 No, I don't know. When I went to Leo's house 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.960 that day after the motorcycle crash, it was to play 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.040 in the recording of my call with Jeremy so he 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:53.800 would finally know for sure that Jeremy didn't recant his confession. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:58.440 The state had gotten it wrong. And the four years 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.680 I've been talking to Jeremy, he has never once denied 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:09.839 killing Michelle. It was when I was standing next to 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:14.439 Leo's bed that my phone rang. The caller ID displayed 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:19.960 a prison in North Florida. It's Jeremy, I told Leo. 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:21.640 Should I pick up? 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:22.600 Hey? 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:22.920 You there? 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:27.160 Leo nodded, Hey, I just got. 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:28.560 To tell you something. I don't know how you feel 0:09:28.559 --> 0:09:30.400 about this, but I just happened to be with Leo 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:30.960 right now. 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.280 Jeremy was calling from his new prison. He was no 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:40.560 longer in solitary confinement. Now he was in protective management 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.040 with around eighty other inmates like Jeremy who have to 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:48.319 be separated from general population for their safety. I told 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.720 him Leo had been in a serious motorcycle accident with. 0:09:51.840 --> 0:09:55.319 All these broken bones. Is he gonna be all right? 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:57.719 I don't know, man, I think he's going to be 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:00.800 all right. He's very coherent, but he's got a lot 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:02.559 of broken bones. You want to say hello to him. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.120 I put the phone on speaker and held it out 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.560 in front of Leo, who screwed it up in his bed. 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:15.760 He's right here, Hey, Jeremy, how are you? Bud? I 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:19.319 was in a motorcycle action with my daughter and got 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:19.840 broken up. 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:22.840 Leo explained the accident, how he and his daughter had 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:31.480 both suffered serious injuries. There was a nervous energy between them, 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:36.319 an awkwardness and the small talk, but Leo didn't linger there. 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:38.040 He got right to the point. 0:10:39.120 --> 0:10:41.520 Yeah, I'm going to have to do that all over again, Jeremy. 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.680 I want to tell you something, and this is coming 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:49.439 from a long time of prayer and you know, just 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:53.479 a lot of thought. And I'm grateful for the opportunity 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:56.280 to thank you for telling the truth. I want you 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:58.920 to know that I forgive you with all my heart. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:05.680 Silence stretched on the other end, as Leo continued, you. 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.440 Got a lot of people that care about you now 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.760 because you did the right thing. And uh, it means 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:12.760 a lot to me, it means a lot to my family. 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:15.559 And uh, I thank you for that, and thank you 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:16.680 with all my heart, Bud. 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:18.800 I thank you, bro. 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:25.160 In one of his letters, Jeremy had written, I hope 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.760 someday I will come face to face with Leo so 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.160 I can look at him and say I'm sorry for 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:35.160 what I did. But now on the phone, Jeremy seemed 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:40.760 lost for words, his nervousness filling the silence. Leo guided 0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:45.360 him almost instinctively, helping a fellow inmate steady himself. 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.559 Hey, I heard you met Oscar good friends. Yeah, he 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.719 misses you me. He he called me last week. He 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.760 told me when you were leave and he uh, he 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.040 missed coming by and seeing you. But I'm glad you're 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:01.120 out of there, buddy. You got stay out of trouble man. 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:06.360 You know, and of buried me there thirty six years. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.719 I don't know, man, I mean it's getting. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:09.840 To me now. 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:10.599 I guess I don't know. 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:15.120 Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I definitely hear you. 0:12:16.520 --> 0:12:19.920 Leo knew that number too well. It was how long 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:24.600 he had waited for freedom. Jeremy talked about his recent 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:29.319 transfer and the struggles adjusting to life there. Leo listened, 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:30.880 his concern genuine. 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:34.400 Yeah, it's just a step down phase complete it so 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:37.040 you can get out. You'll get out of there. You 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:38.800 know you'll get out of there. You gotta. 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:43.240 After years in prison, Leo knew how to navigate hardship. 0:12:43.960 --> 0:12:46.240 He reassured Jeremy that he could get through this. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:49.400 So you got You've got friends out here that care 0:12:49.440 --> 0:12:51.560 about you. They're not going to lie to you. They're 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:53.120 not going to tell you short they're not going to 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:56.199 tell you stories, none of that stuff. You gained a 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.480 lot of respect with the people out here, just because 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.719 you were brave enough to tell the truth. And that 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.360 was a big deal, Jeremy. That was a really big 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:07.840 deal because it changed my life, and I definitely appreciate 0:13:07.920 --> 0:13:08.319 you for it. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.440 Leo stared at the phone I was holding. 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.240 In front of him, just taking on this happen, Bro, 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:15.959 I really did. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.880 I just hate it that this happened, Bro, I really did. 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:25.440 At that moment, with Jeremy standing at the telephone surrounded 0:13:25.480 --> 0:13:29.360 by other inmates, I realized this might be his apology. 0:13:30.280 --> 0:13:32.840 These were the words he had chosen for a place 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.800 where any display of vulnerability could be dangerous. 0:13:37.160 --> 0:13:42.760 Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry it happened at all. But now 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:44.880 it's your turn to stop doing right, you hear me. 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.640 You just keep doing your part and you're gonna be 0:13:49.640 --> 0:13:51.600 all right. Okay. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.280 I had changed my life over and that thought. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:58.040 I'd never do that. I believe in you, Jeremy. You're 0:13:58.040 --> 0:13:59.120 going to do well. You hear me. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.360 You keep praying for me, he tells Leo. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:09.800 I will won't stop, Jeremy, I promise. 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:14.840 Leo handed me my phone and I told Jeremy goodbye 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.319 for now, said we talk again. Later, just as I 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.680 was about to end the call. I thought I heard 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:24.560 his voice again, mister King. I put the phone to 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.960 my ear. Jeremy was still there. 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.440 Hey, Jeremy, can you Yeah, Hey, I'm glad you got 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:31.760 a chance. 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:38.080 Okay, thank you, my pleasure there, he said, I really 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:38.840 thank you for that. 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:43.480 Thank you for using global telling. 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:47.360 He was getting chumped up. 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:49.200 Thank you, Joy. 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:50.160 That was feing weird. 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:55.440 Yeah, I'm thinking as I've been going, I'm thinking, now 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.360 this is my wife's martyr. Yeah, I know, I know, 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:02.200 I know. It doesn't get more real than that. 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:02.880 You know. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:06.280 I was praying and I told God, I said, I'm 0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.720 gonna forgive him because I know that's what you want 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.920 me to do. But the test of that was today. 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.760 Later on, Jeremy called me again. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:29.640 Hello hear me? Yeah, hey hey. 0:15:30.720 --> 0:15:34.280 I asked if it helped hearing Leo's words, and I 0:15:34.320 --> 0:15:34.880 ain't gonna lie. 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.200 I mean, it really freaked me out talking to him, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:40.040 but it made me feel a lot better. 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:45.120 No, well, I near it broke me down, No, dude, 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:48.280 I get I get very good emotional, you know. Yeah, 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:54.000 but to hear him be free was really really touching, 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.760 you know, because because he never de started to be 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:59.560 in prison, like the tape doesn't. 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:05.600 Mean he says his life's been taken because of me. Yeah, 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.920 Jeremy knows he took Michelle Scofield's life too. Forever. He's 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:15.560 spoken to me many times about Michelle and her family 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.920 with what I understand as sincere remorse. It reminds me 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:24.600 of some condemned men moments from execution, who in their 0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:29.680 final words, attempt to ease the suffering they caused. Listening 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.040 to Jeremy now, I couldn't help but think of Michelle's 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:38.440 family and whether his contrition might possibly offer a tiny 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:39.640 measure of consolation. 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:03.040 Sorry, tearing my nose off when I get nervous. 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.320 It's been tough finding time to meet with Justin lately. 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.080 He'd been so busy with work and caring for his 0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.960 kids with Ariel. To make things easier, they move north, 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:17.240 back to Lakeland so they have more family support. Now 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.760 Justin's mom, Jamie, is there for his kids in ways 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:22.920 she wasn't always able to be there for him in 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:23.520 the past. 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:26.879 What I want out of her is to be more 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:31.680 involved with the grandkids, like I want her to make 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.080 up her past with the grandkids. 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.440 That would mean more to me than anything you know 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:37.960 because we know where we're at. 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.640 When I first met Justin, I could tell how excited 0:17:41.680 --> 0:17:44.520 he was about going down this path with me. He 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.160 wanted to solve all the mysteries about how he came 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.560 into the world, to know everything, but I wanted to 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.959 deliver the details gently. So I promised Justin I'd come 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.560 back to him with everything I'd learned, especially from his mom, 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.520 and now it was time for him to hear it. Okay, 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.879 so I'm just going to give you some some some 0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.560 of the things that Jamie said and just talk to 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:12.800 you about them. I could tell that Justin was nervous. 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.040 It was almost like now he was realizing the reason 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:19.680 for Jamie's silence over the years. It was hard for 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.359 Jamie to say some of these things, so it's going 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:25.640 to be hard for Justin to hear them. I started 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:32.840 from the beginning, so she starts talking about meeting Jeremy 0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.840 at seventeen and the piercing blue eyes. 0:18:36.400 --> 0:18:39.480 The first thing I thought was his eyes. He had 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:43.159 the most piercing eyes. 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.960 I told Justin about how Jamie first met Jeremy and 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:49.239 why she was drawn to him. 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:54.440 Well, we found that club secrets. Jeremy came in and 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:58.080 none of us had ever seen him before. And we 0:18:58.280 --> 0:18:58.919 danced and. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:00.879 That was it. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:04.119 And she talked about learning about his activities and some 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:05.919 of the things he used to do was hang around 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.560 these gay bars, like there was one called Fantasy two 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.960 thousand and another one called the Green Parrot. Parrots over here, Yeah, 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:13.680 you've probably seen me. 0:19:13.720 --> 0:19:14.720 I've been there with him. 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:19.080 Well, Jeremy he waited outside Green Parrot and they knew 0:19:19.119 --> 0:19:21.600 he was there and jumped him and he got some 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:22.720 of his own medicine. 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.240 I told Justin how Jeremy had done a short stint 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:29.280 in prison in nineteen eighty eight for burglary, and how 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.720 when he'd gotten out, he'd come back into Jamie's life 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:37.120 a different person, darker, more violent. 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.320 And that's when his eyes were empty, and there was nothing. 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.280 I mean, he never smiled, there was no love there. 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.800 It was all fear. I told him about how his 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.280 mom was with Jeremy when he was arrested for the 0:19:52.359 --> 0:19:54.520 murder of Donald Morehead and so they put her. 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:54.760 In the car. 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.000 But she talks about that moment of being in the 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.960 police car and just like finally it's over. Somebody I 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.199 need to worry about. I don't need to be threatened 0:20:03.200 --> 0:20:07.080 by anymore scared of So that was a really big 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:09.440 moment in her life to just sort of be free 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:12.560 from him that way in because, you know, be able 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:13.119 to breathe, and. 0:20:13.160 --> 0:20:16.080 When they shut that door, I could breathe. 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:16.760 Yeah. 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.400 It occurred to me that Justin might never have known 0:20:21.480 --> 0:20:23.760 the full story of how he came into this world 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.440 if his father, Jeremy Scott had never agreed to talk 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:31.040 to me, and his mother Jamie might never have opened up. 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.159 If Justin hadn't reached out wanting to know everything a family. 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:38.960 He hadn't seen a family brought up right. He's heard 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.920 about his dad's family, he's seen our family, which is 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:47.119 dysfunctional as all get out. And I think in the 0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:51.400 back of his mind he wanted a family brought up right. 0:20:52.200 --> 0:20:55.800 He wants his family to be loved and to have 0:20:56.080 --> 0:21:00.160 the mother and father and to have that dynamic. I'm 0:21:00.160 --> 0:21:04.600 at core, you know that's what he wants for his kids. 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:10.440 And Justin's family is growing, and you also mentioned have 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:12.240 some good news to tell me, but you're waiting for 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:12.800 you to tell me. 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.760 Firston Yeah, all right, yes, so my girl's pregnant. 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:21.040 Oh man, Yeah, congratulations Justin and his girlfriend Ariel will 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:23.240 be welcoming a fifth child into the family. 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:27.320 I see. 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.880 Him with foul and I see him with those girls, 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:38.440 and how good he is, and the fear that he 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.880 has that he's going to ruin it. Not that something. 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:45.840 Justin's family has always tried to reassure him, you are 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:50.359 not your father, but Jamie's view on this has shifted us. 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.359 He is and for me to tell him he's not 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:54.000 his father. 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:55.160 He knows I'm lying. 0:21:55.560 --> 0:21:58.680 He looks in the mirror and sees his father, you know, 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:03.320 because he's seen pictures of his He's googled everything. I've 0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:04.119 realized he. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:05.160 Is his father. 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:07.640 He's just the good side of Jeremy. 0:22:08.440 --> 0:22:09.880 He's the one that made me realize. 0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.280 She wanted you to know that Jeremy also had a 0:22:13.320 --> 0:22:16.159 good side to him, and that you know that he 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.639 could be charming, and he could be sweet and caring 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:21.040 and empathic at times. 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.320 And she made a point of saying that, like she 0:22:25.480 --> 0:22:26.320 started looking. 0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.800 At it differently when she saw you growing up, Like 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:30.679 all the good things she saw out of them. 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:31.840 Right right. 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:35.480 I told you he's what Jeremy could have been with 0:22:35.640 --> 0:22:40.119 a different childhood, if Jeremy had had the love and 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.480 the nursering and didn't get hit in the head and 0:22:46.119 --> 0:22:51.320 didn't have the upbringing he had, had the attention he needed, 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:55.440 And that's the difference. Jeremy had defend for himself and 0:22:55.600 --> 0:22:57.680 was pretty much thrown out on the streets when he 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:01.240 was a little kid and had to learn how to survive. 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:06.240 I don't think Jeremy's an evil person. I really don't, 0:23:07.880 --> 0:23:11.720 but he does evil things and he always will. He's 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:14.879 not going to change, and it's not because he's an 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:17.639 evil person. It's because he has no control, he doesn't 0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:21.600 know how to, and a part of me feel sorry 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:22.040 for him. 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.240 There was one part of Jamie's story that I wanted 0:23:27.280 --> 0:23:29.080 to make sure I got right when I told it 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:32.280 to Justin, so I read him what his mom said 0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:37.159 about the day he was born. She says they went 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.520 into really, really hard labor and he was in stress. 0:23:41.280 --> 0:23:43.919 It was just it was scary, and he ended up 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:46.680 being in the hospital for like six weeks, and I 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:48.680 couldn't hold him like I'm touching. 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.280 I couldn't touch him. And then I would sit there 0:23:51.280 --> 0:23:54.440 and I would look at him, and I just fell 0:23:54.600 --> 0:23:58.920 so in love with this baby, and I just knew 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:00.200 I just knew. 0:24:02.240 --> 0:24:02.920 He was mine. 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:05.879 I didn't care who his dad was, I didn't care 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:10.119 how he came. That was my baby, that was my child. 0:24:12.600 --> 0:24:14.360 I think he's one of the best things. 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:18.600 I've ever done. He really is. 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:26.760