Speaker 1: In December of twenty twenty four, I returned to Polk
Speaker 1: County to give a talk about all my reporting in
Speaker 1: central Florida. It was a cold winter evening in Lakeland,
Speaker 1: and downtown shimmered with Christmas decorations. I was just about
Speaker 1: to enter the lobby the Polk Theater when people were
Speaker 1: already milling about, when I saw a man in a
Speaker 1: flannel jacket and a leather vest walking toward me on
Speaker 1: the sidewalk. It was Leo, surprising me. He had a
Speaker 1: big smile on his face and be hugged right there
Speaker 1: on the street. It must be pretty surreal being back
Speaker 1: in Lakeland, I said. Together, we walked into the theater
Speaker 1: lobby and Leo was swarm by Bone Valley fans who
Speaker 1: approached him for photos and conversation. I watched him drift
Speaker 1: through the crowd, chatting with everyone, even a Polk County
Speaker 1: deputy who said he just finished listening to the podcast.
Speaker 1: After I finished my talk, I brought Leo onto the stage.
Speaker 1: So are there any updates that you can share about Leo?
Speaker 2: Well, there's very interesting update where some of you are aware,
Speaker 2: but mister Schofield, Leo.
Speaker 1: Scofield is here tonight. Yes, Leo, where are you buddy?
Speaker 1: We sat down next to me and took questions from
Speaker 1: the audience.
Speaker 3: Leo, can you tell us how you're doing on the
Speaker 3: day to day, you and Chrissy and with your grand babies.
Speaker 3: Just tell us about your life, because we are so
Speaker 3: thrilled to see you here tonight.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for that.
Speaker 3: I'm doing great. This is a very surreal moment for
Speaker 3: me because I was just sitting there thinking he was.
Speaker 1: As graceful as ever, sharing memories of his years in
Speaker 1: Lakeland and the decades long fight to prove his innocence
Speaker 1: and thank you Leo. At the end the night, he
Speaker 1: received a standing ovation and he lingered for more photos
Speaker 1: with fans. It was late now, and I walked him
Speaker 1: to his bike. He pulled his helmet down, swung his
Speaker 1: leg over as Harley Davidson, and fired it up. For
Speaker 1: a moment, he just sat there, smiling, proud, like a
Speaker 1: man who had returned to Polk County and finally took
Speaker 1: back a piece of himself. Then he rode off and
Speaker 1: I watched the red glow of his tail light disappear
Speaker 1: into the night. The next time I saw him a
Speaker 1: month later, he wasn't on a bike. He was in
Speaker 1: a hospital bed. Leo had been riding his Harley one night,
Speaker 1: his dog Ashley on the back when a driver made
Speaker 1: a sudden left turn in front of them. There was
Speaker 1: no time to stop. Leo suffered an open book pelvis fracture,
Speaker 1: a torn bladder, a broken back, and shattered hands, wrists,
Speaker 1: and an ankle. Ashley's injuries were only slightly less severe.
Speaker 1: Leo told me the pain was unbearable, with plates and
Speaker 1: screws now holding his body together. He worried about whether
Speaker 1: he'd ever walk again, let alone play guitar. He was
Speaker 1: laying in a bed in the living room with the
Speaker 1: home he now shared with his wife, Chrissy. Due to
Speaker 1: the severity of Leo's accident, the Florida Parole Commission allowed
Speaker 1: him to leave the half way house and move home.
Speaker 1: I'd come to visit Leo partly because something interesting had
Speaker 1: come up in my ongoing investigation, something I'd never known
Speaker 1: before and something that could make a difference. I was
Speaker 1: just telling Leo about it when I got a phone call.
Speaker 1: I looked at the screen and saw who it was,
Speaker 1: showed it to Leo, whose eyes widened. Should I take this,
Speaker 1: I asked him. He nodded and sat up straight.
Speaker 3: Hey you there, Hey, Jeremy.
Speaker 1: Do you my man? I have to have my feet.
Speaker 4: Sru step sorry list in this vastly tear uh see
Speaker 4: relation a breach Things.
Speaker 1: Bone Valley, Season two, Jeremy, Chapter six, Walk down that Road.
Speaker 1: The news I was telling Leo that day was about Jeremy.
Speaker 1: He had called me a few weeks earlier from the
Speaker 1: new prison he'd been transferred to, and he was in
Speaker 1: a pretty decent mood. So I asked him a question
Speaker 1: I'd always been curious about. It was about something he'd
Speaker 1: said in court when the State of Florida was deciding
Speaker 1: whether Jeremy's confession was enough to grant Leo a new trial.
Speaker 5: Do you remember in twenty seventeen when they brought you
Speaker 5: back to the evidentiary hearing, that woman Victoria Avalon, she
Speaker 5: was the one that questioned you for the state.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she was fashion me.
Speaker 1: In this hearing. Prosecutor of Victoria Avalon approached Jeremy and
Speaker 1: showed him a picture that she shielded from the gallery.
Speaker 5: You know what her big thing was When she showed
Speaker 5: you the picture and she said, look at this.
Speaker 1: As soon as Jeremy saw it, he turned his head away.
Speaker 1: He didn't want to look, said he'd seen it before.
Speaker 3: See it again.
Speaker 4: Is this what you did to Huff?
Speaker 7: No, I didn't hear that answer.
Speaker 4: No I didn't do it.
Speaker 1: I wanted to know what picture Avalon had showed him
Speaker 1: and what Jeremy really meant when he said, no, I
Speaker 1: didn't do that.
Speaker 8: Ye showed me a naked picture picture of Michelle.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, Michelle and you.
Speaker 3: You you you said I didn't do that.
Speaker 6: The way the way is the way they was trying
Speaker 6: to say that I raped her. That's but that's what
Speaker 6: these people is getting an idea of brom from her.
Speaker 5: So that's what that's what you thought.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she only had a dead picture, no way, No, No,
Speaker 6: they don't know she had all her clothes on, she
Speaker 6: had jury on everything. Yeah, I mean, but this is
Speaker 6: the way they came at me. Would that you know,
Speaker 6: showing me the picture?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 5: The autopsy reports said there was no sexual anything.
Speaker 3: There's no evidence of that.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: No, that's well, that's why that's what makes killing me.
Speaker 1: On the stand. He thought that Avalon was accusing him
Speaker 1: of raping Michelle, that he left her like that naked
Speaker 1: at the crime scene, something he knew was not true.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, man, Well I don't. I might be.
Speaker 6: I might. I might do a lot of crazy stuff
Speaker 6: in my in my life, man, but I ain't. I
Speaker 6: ain't part there.
Speaker 1: Avalon argued to the judge that when Jeremy said no,
Speaker 1: I didn't do that, he was recanting his confession, and
Speaker 1: the Polk County judge agreed. He ruled that Jeremy had recanted,
Speaker 1: and with that, Leo Schofield was denied a new trial,
Speaker 1: even though some of Jeremy's last words in the hearing
Speaker 1: were I killed her.
Speaker 6: I still don't understand why I did it that night.
Speaker 6: I can't say alcohol did.
Speaker 8: It, where drugs didn't, whatever, because.
Speaker 6: It's still make no ex q C in it.
Speaker 1: No, I don't know. When I went to Leo's house
Speaker 1: that day after the motorcycle crash, it was to play
Speaker 1: in the recording of my call with Jeremy so he
Speaker 1: would finally know for sure that Jeremy didn't recant his confession.
Speaker 1: The state had gotten it wrong. And the four years
Speaker 1: I've been talking to Jeremy, he has never once denied
Speaker 1: killing Michelle. It was when I was standing next to
Speaker 1: Leo's bed that my phone rang. The caller ID displayed
Speaker 1: a prison in North Florida. It's Jeremy, I told Leo.
Speaker 1: Should I pick up?
Speaker 2: Hey?
Speaker 9: You there?
Speaker 1: Leo nodded, Hey, I just got.
Speaker 3: To tell you something. I don't know how you feel
Speaker 3: about this, but I just happened to be with Leo
Speaker 3: right now.
Speaker 1: Jeremy was calling from his new prison. He was no
Speaker 1: longer in solitary confinement. Now he was in protective management
Speaker 1: with around eighty other inmates like Jeremy who have to
Speaker 1: be separated from general population for their safety. I told
Speaker 1: him Leo had been in a serious motorcycle accident with.
Speaker 3: All these broken bones. Is he gonna be all right?
Speaker 5: I don't know, man, I think he's going to be
Speaker 5: all right. He's very coherent, but he's got a lot
Speaker 5: of broken bones. You want to say hello to him.
Speaker 1: I put the phone on speaker and held it out
Speaker 1: in front of Leo, who screwed it up in his bed.
Speaker 3: He's right here, Hey, Jeremy, how are you? Bud? I
Speaker 3: was in a motorcycle action with my daughter and got
Speaker 3: broken up.
Speaker 1: Leo explained the accident, how he and his daughter had
Speaker 1: both suffered serious injuries. There was a nervous energy between them,
Speaker 1: an awkwardness and the small talk, but Leo didn't linger there.
Speaker 1: He got right to the point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to have to do that all over again, Jeremy.
Speaker 3: I want to tell you something, and this is coming
Speaker 3: from a long time of prayer and you know, just
Speaker 3: a lot of thought. And I'm grateful for the opportunity
Speaker 3: to thank you for telling the truth. I want you
Speaker 3: to know that I forgive you with all my heart.
Speaker 1: Silence stretched on the other end, as Leo continued, you.
Speaker 3: Got a lot of people that care about you now
Speaker 3: because you did the right thing. And uh, it means
Speaker 3: a lot to me, it means a lot to my family.
Speaker 3: And uh, I thank you for that, and thank you
Speaker 3: with all my heart, Bud.
Speaker 6: I thank you, bro.
Speaker 1: In one of his letters, Jeremy had written, I hope
Speaker 1: someday I will come face to face with Leo so
Speaker 1: I can look at him and say I'm sorry for
Speaker 1: what I did. But now on the phone, Jeremy seemed
Speaker 1: lost for words, his nervousness filling the silence. Leo guided
Speaker 1: him almost instinctively, helping a fellow inmate steady himself.
Speaker 3: Hey, I heard you met Oscar good friends. Yeah, he
Speaker 3: misses you me. He he called me last week. He
Speaker 3: told me when you were leave and he uh, he
Speaker 3: missed coming by and seeing you. But I'm glad you're
Speaker 3: out of there, buddy. You got stay out of trouble man.
Speaker 6: You know, and of buried me there thirty six years.
Speaker 6: I don't know, man, I mean it's getting.
Speaker 3: To me now.
Speaker 6: I guess I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I definitely hear you.
Speaker 1: Leo knew that number too well. It was how long
Speaker 1: he had waited for freedom. Jeremy talked about his recent
Speaker 1: transfer and the struggles adjusting to life there. Leo listened,
Speaker 1: his concern genuine.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just a step down phase complete it so
Speaker 3: you can get out. You'll get out of there. You
Speaker 3: know you'll get out of there. You gotta.
Speaker 1: After years in prison, Leo knew how to navigate hardship.
Speaker 1: He reassured Jeremy that he could get through this.
Speaker 3: So you got You've got friends out here that care
Speaker 3: about you. They're not going to lie to you. They're
Speaker 3: not going to tell you short they're not going to
Speaker 3: tell you stories, none of that stuff. You gained a
Speaker 3: lot of respect with the people out here, just because
Speaker 3: you were brave enough to tell the truth. And that
Speaker 3: was a big deal, Jeremy. That was a really big
Speaker 3: deal because it changed my life, and I definitely appreciate
Speaker 3: you for it.
Speaker 1: Leo stared at the phone I was holding.
Speaker 6: In front of him, just taking on this happen, Bro,
Speaker 6: I really did.
Speaker 1: I just hate it that this happened, Bro, I really did.
Speaker 1: At that moment, with Jeremy standing at the telephone surrounded
Speaker 1: by other inmates, I realized this might be his apology.
Speaker 1: These were the words he had chosen for a place
Speaker 1: where any display of vulnerability could be dangerous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry it happened at all. But now
Speaker 3: it's your turn to stop doing right, you hear me.
Speaker 3: You just keep doing your part and you're gonna be
Speaker 3: all right. Okay.
Speaker 6: I had changed my life over and that thought.
Speaker 3: I'd never do that. I believe in you, Jeremy. You're
Speaker 3: going to do well. You hear me.
Speaker 1: You keep praying for me, he tells Leo.
Speaker 3: I will won't stop, Jeremy, I promise.
Speaker 1: Leo handed me my phone and I told Jeremy goodbye
Speaker 1: for now, said we talk again. Later, just as I
Speaker 1: was about to end the call. I thought I heard
Speaker 1: his voice again, mister King. I put the phone to
Speaker 1: my ear. Jeremy was still there.
Speaker 5: Hey, Jeremy, can you Yeah, Hey, I'm glad you got
Speaker 5: a chance.
Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, my pleasure there, he said, I really
Speaker 1: thank you for that.
Speaker 3: Thank you for using global telling.
Speaker 4: He was getting chumped up.
Speaker 8: Thank you, Joy.
Speaker 6: That was feing weird.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm thinking as I've been going, I'm thinking, now
Speaker 3: this is my wife's martyr. Yeah, I know, I know,
Speaker 3: I know. It doesn't get more real than that.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 3: I was praying and I told God, I said, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna forgive him because I know that's what you want
Speaker 3: me to do. But the test of that was today.
Speaker 1: Later on, Jeremy called me again.
Speaker 3: Hello hear me? Yeah, hey hey.
Speaker 1: I asked if it helped hearing Leo's words, and I
Speaker 1: ain't gonna lie.
Speaker 6: I mean, it really freaked me out talking to him,
Speaker 6: but it made me feel a lot better.
Speaker 8: No, well, I near it broke me down, No, dude,
Speaker 8: I get I get very good emotional, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 8: but to hear him be free was really really touching,
Speaker 8: you know, because because he never de started to be
Speaker 8: in prison, like the tape doesn't.
Speaker 1: Mean he says his life's been taken because of me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Jeremy knows he took Michelle Scofield's life too. Forever. He's
Speaker 1: spoken to me many times about Michelle and her family
Speaker 1: with what I understand as sincere remorse. It reminds me
Speaker 1: of some condemned men moments from execution, who in their
Speaker 1: final words, attempt to ease the suffering they caused. Listening
Speaker 1: to Jeremy now, I couldn't help but think of Michelle's
Speaker 1: family and whether his contrition might possibly offer a tiny
Speaker 1: measure of consolation.
Speaker 7: Sorry, tearing my nose off when I get nervous.
Speaker 1: It's been tough finding time to meet with Justin lately.
Speaker 1: He'd been so busy with work and caring for his
Speaker 1: kids with Ariel. To make things easier, they move north,
Speaker 1: back to Lakeland so they have more family support. Now
Speaker 1: Justin's mom, Jamie, is there for his kids in ways
Speaker 1: she wasn't always able to be there for him in
Speaker 1: the past.
Speaker 7: What I want out of her is to be more
Speaker 7: involved with the grandkids, like I want her to make
Speaker 7: up her past with the grandkids.
Speaker 10: That would mean more to me than anything you know
Speaker 10: because we know where we're at.
Speaker 1: When I first met Justin, I could tell how excited
Speaker 1: he was about going down this path with me. He
Speaker 1: wanted to solve all the mysteries about how he came
Speaker 1: into the world, to know everything, but I wanted to
Speaker 1: deliver the details gently. So I promised Justin I'd come
Speaker 1: back to him with everything I'd learned, especially from his mom,
Speaker 1: and now it was time for him to hear it. Okay,
Speaker 1: so I'm just going to give you some some some
Speaker 1: of the things that Jamie said and just talk to
Speaker 1: you about them. I could tell that Justin was nervous.
Speaker 1: It was almost like now he was realizing the reason
Speaker 1: for Jamie's silence over the years. It was hard for
Speaker 1: Jamie to say some of these things, so it's going
Speaker 1: to be hard for Justin to hear them. I started
Speaker 1: from the beginning, so she starts talking about meeting Jeremy
Speaker 1: at seventeen and the piercing blue eyes.
Speaker 9: The first thing I thought was his eyes. He had
Speaker 9: the most piercing eyes.
Speaker 1: I told Justin about how Jamie first met Jeremy and
Speaker 1: why she was drawn to him.
Speaker 9: Well, we found that club secrets. Jeremy came in and
Speaker 9: none of us had ever seen him before. And we
Speaker 9: danced and.
Speaker 3: That was it.
Speaker 1: And she talked about learning about his activities and some
Speaker 1: of the things he used to do was hang around
Speaker 1: these gay bars, like there was one called Fantasy two
Speaker 1: thousand and another one called the Green Parrot. Parrots over here, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you've probably seen me.
Speaker 10: I've been there with him.
Speaker 9: Well, Jeremy he waited outside Green Parrot and they knew
Speaker 9: he was there and jumped him and he got some
Speaker 9: of his own medicine.
Speaker 1: I told Justin how Jeremy had done a short stint
Speaker 1: in prison in nineteen eighty eight for burglary, and how
Speaker 1: when he'd gotten out, he'd come back into Jamie's life
Speaker 1: a different person, darker, more violent.
Speaker 9: And that's when his eyes were empty, and there was nothing.
Speaker 9: I mean, he never smiled, there was no love there.
Speaker 1: It was all fear. I told him about how his
Speaker 1: mom was with Jeremy when he was arrested for the
Speaker 1: murder of Donald Morehead and so they put her.
Speaker 9: In the car.
Speaker 11: But she talks about that moment of being in the
Speaker 11: police car and just like finally it's over. Somebody I
Speaker 11: need to worry about. I don't need to be threatened
Speaker 11: by anymore scared of So that was a really big
Speaker 11: moment in her life to just sort of be free
Speaker 11: from him that way in because, you know, be able
Speaker 11: to breathe, and.
Speaker 9: When they shut that door, I could breathe.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It occurred to me that Justin might never have known
Speaker 1: the full story of how he came into this world
Speaker 1: if his father, Jeremy Scott had never agreed to talk
Speaker 1: to me, and his mother Jamie might never have opened up.
Speaker 1: If Justin hadn't reached out wanting to know everything a family.
Speaker 9: He hadn't seen a family brought up right. He's heard
Speaker 9: about his dad's family, he's seen our family, which is
Speaker 9: dysfunctional as all get out. And I think in the
Speaker 9: back of his mind he wanted a family brought up right.
Speaker 9: He wants his family to be loved and to have
Speaker 9: the mother and father and to have that dynamic. I'm
Speaker 9: at core, you know that's what he wants for his kids.
Speaker 2: And Justin's family is growing, and you also mentioned have
Speaker 2: some good news to tell me, but you're waiting for
Speaker 2: you to tell me.
Speaker 4: Firston Yeah, all right, yes, so my girl's pregnant.
Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, congratulations Justin and his girlfriend Ariel will
Speaker 2: be welcoming a fifth child into the family.
Speaker 4: I see.
Speaker 9: Him with foul and I see him with those girls,
Speaker 9: and how good he is, and the fear that he
Speaker 9: has that he's going to ruin it. Not that something.
Speaker 1: Justin's family has always tried to reassure him, you are
Speaker 1: not your father, but Jamie's view on this has shifted us.
Speaker 9: He is and for me to tell him he's not
Speaker 9: his father.
Speaker 10: He knows I'm lying.
Speaker 9: He looks in the mirror and sees his father, you know,
Speaker 9: because he's seen pictures of his He's googled everything. I've
Speaker 9: realized he.
Speaker 4: Is his father.
Speaker 10: He's just the good side of Jeremy.
Speaker 9: He's the one that made me realize.
Speaker 2: She wanted you to know that Jeremy also had a
Speaker 2: good side to him, and that you know that he
Speaker 2: could be charming, and he could be sweet and caring
Speaker 2: and empathic at times.
Speaker 1: And she made a point of saying that, like she
Speaker 1: started looking.
Speaker 10: At it differently when she saw you growing up, Like
Speaker 10: all the good things she saw out of them.
Speaker 1: Right right.
Speaker 9: I told you he's what Jeremy could have been with
Speaker 9: a different childhood, if Jeremy had had the love and
Speaker 9: the nursering and didn't get hit in the head and
Speaker 9: didn't have the upbringing he had, had the attention he needed,
Speaker 9: And that's the difference. Jeremy had defend for himself and
Speaker 9: was pretty much thrown out on the streets when he
Speaker 9: was a little kid and had to learn how to survive.
Speaker 9: I don't think Jeremy's an evil person. I really don't,
Speaker 9: but he does evil things and he always will. He's
Speaker 9: not going to change, and it's not because he's an
Speaker 9: evil person. It's because he has no control, he doesn't
Speaker 9: know how to, and a part of me feel sorry
Speaker 9: for him.
Speaker 1: There was one part of Jamie's story that I wanted
Speaker 1: to make sure I got right when I told it
Speaker 1: to Justin, so I read him what his mom said
Speaker 1: about the day he was born. She says they went
Speaker 1: into really, really hard labor and he was in stress.
Speaker 1: It was just it was scary, and he ended up
Speaker 1: being in the hospital for like six weeks, and I
Speaker 1: couldn't hold him like I'm touching.
Speaker 9: I couldn't touch him. And then I would sit there
Speaker 9: and I would look at him, and I just fell
Speaker 9: so in love with this baby, and I just knew
Speaker 9: I just knew.
Speaker 10: He was mine.
Speaker 9: I didn't care who his dad was, I didn't care
Speaker 9: how he came. That was my baby, that was my child.
Speaker 9: I think he's one of the best things.
Speaker 1: I've ever done. He really is.
Speaker 9: That little boy has saved me, and I love him
Speaker 9: so much, and I'm so proud of him and so
Speaker 9: proud of what he's become.
Speaker 4: In spite of me and in spite of his father.
Speaker 4: He is one of the most wonderful people.
Speaker 10: I've never heard of talk like that.
Speaker 7: She's always had in trouble expressing her emotions. I knew
Speaker 7: how she felt. No, she's closed off.
Speaker 10: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to think. That made me want
Speaker 1: to cry some that you know, and I know she
Speaker 1: loves me.
Speaker 10: I know she loves me.
Speaker 1: Testing one two three, testing one two three. Okay, just
Speaker 1: saw Justin pull into the parking lot, so he should
Speaker 1: be up here any second. The very first time I
Speaker 1: talked to Justin, he told me he wanted to start
Speaker 1: communicating with his dad.
Speaker 3: Hey, you made it.
Speaker 4: Four minutes late, Okay, you four minutes hold you.
Speaker 1: He wanted to, but he couldn't figure out how he
Speaker 1: needed my help with the logistics. Ariel wasn't comfortable with
Speaker 1: the idea of Jeremy sending his letters to Justin at
Speaker 1: their house. And I think Justin needed my help emotionally
Speaker 1: too that way.
Speaker 4: But you know, before we.
Speaker 1: Still let me just do this real quick.
Speaker 4: I know I can imagine you are.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: The funny thing is Jeremy's kind of excited too, Like
Speaker 1: I told him that, you know, it's hard to write
Speaker 1: these letters, And I said, Justin had been trying to
Speaker 1: write his dad, but each time he tried, he struggled
Speaker 1: to find the words, you know, or anything.
Speaker 8: And I know so many years I.
Speaker 1: Know, so Jeremy, after waiting weeks for a letter from
Speaker 1: his son, couldn't wait anymore. He wrote Justin a letter
Speaker 1: and sent it to me so I could deliver it
Speaker 1: in person. He asked me to give you this is
Speaker 1: his handwriting, or is able? That's his everything is his handwriting.
Speaker 1: I think Justin smiled as I handed in the letter,
Speaker 1: but as soon as he held it, I saw his
Speaker 1: eyes start to well up, and all I could think
Speaker 1: about was how carefully Jeremy had written this letter, how
Speaker 1: he talked to Mary about finding the right words, about
Speaker 1: how to say what he really felt. Oh, you cursive.
Speaker 4: Cursive, but I can't write like this.
Speaker 7: You want me to read it out loud?
Speaker 1: Do you mind?
Speaker 3: I don't go for it.
Speaker 4: That's a little nervous. They're justin.
Speaker 7: I was told that you were gonna write me. I
Speaker 7: guess it's kind of hard for you. We really don't
Speaker 7: know each other. I would like to get to know
Speaker 7: you better. I know it's hard for you not knowing
Speaker 7: what to say. I don't know what you have heard
Speaker 7: about me. But if you want to ask me something anything,
Speaker 7: you are a grown man, and I won't lie to you.
Speaker 7: There's a lot of stuff I did grown up, and
Speaker 7: I hate myself for those things. I hurt your mother,
Speaker 7: the only woman to ever loved me, and I hurt
Speaker 7: my family. I'm fifty four year old now. I have
Speaker 7: done a lot of thinking since I've been walked up.
Speaker 7: I gave my whole life away from nothing, but it
Speaker 7: cost me everything that I love. I don't know how
Speaker 7: your mother feels about me these thy He still thinks
Speaker 7: about my mom's Yeah, he does, justin. I'm sorry for
Speaker 7: not being there for you. I know what it is
Speaker 7: like growing up with no farther around. I can't change
Speaker 7: the time. If I could then we would still be
Speaker 7: a family. Now that makes me happy too, cause he
Speaker 7: wants you know what I mean, he's not a monster.
Speaker 7: I have heard that you have a son, that his
Speaker 7: name is Val and his tears. Oh, mister King has
Speaker 7: told me that he uh visit with you without Yeah
Speaker 7: at a playground.
Speaker 4: He told me.
Speaker 7: He told me how you were playing with Val and
Speaker 7: how the two of you were having fun. I'm glad
Speaker 7: that you spend time with your son and makes me
Speaker 7: so happy to hear about that, the.
Speaker 3: Two of you.
Speaker 4: That makes most m ms t.
Speaker 7: Mister King said that you are a very awful young
Speaker 7: man and then a dedicated father.
Speaker 4: So you work as a manager. That's good.
Speaker 7: Uh, I sure didn't keep us up. Spent a long
Speaker 7: time since I hear from anyone in my family. When
Speaker 7: Grandma passed a while back, and I wish you could
Speaker 7: have spent some time with your great grandma. She saw
Speaker 7: you back in eight oh, so she did get us.
Speaker 7: I was told that you would like to meet some
Speaker 7: of my family. That would be nice. Well soon I
Speaker 7: wanted to write and hope that this will help you
Speaker 7: to write me. Just you ask anything that you want. Well,
Speaker 7: I'm sorry it has taken so long to write, give
Speaker 7: my grandson to hug a bunch of kisses a day,
Speaker 7: and that its oh, you take care of yourself.
Speaker 4: Love that. Then he put happy for it for the life.
Speaker 7: I mean, obviously, you know we're past that age of
Speaker 7: for me being a kid and that and everything.
Speaker 4: But one thing that it makes me have is that connection.
Speaker 1: Feeling like a kid again. Watching Justin read this letter
Speaker 1: and take in Jeremy's words is complicated for me. This
Speaker 1: isn't some story about a long lost father reconnecting with
Speaker 1: his son through a genealogy website. This is different. This
Speaker 1: is heavy, and I'm always careful to keep expectations low.
Speaker 1: The father in this story is still locked inside the
Speaker 1: dead end of prison where he'll spend the rest of
Speaker 1: his life. But Justin seems to understand this. He's realistic
Speaker 1: and he wants to give his father a chance.
Speaker 7: Okay, So this was about four or five days ago,
Speaker 7: cause I started on it and I ain't gonna lie.
Speaker 7: I went started to the first sentence and then I
Speaker 7: stopped cause I didn't know what they're right, writer's block, Yeah,
Speaker 7: And then I wrote it again. So, dear Dad, even
Speaker 7: as I think of what to write down to start
Speaker 7: my letter off. I just keep thinking how this is
Speaker 7: the start of our relationship, which I think is awesome.
Speaker 1: I had Justin and Jeremy keep writing letters to each other.
Speaker 1: Jeremy mails me his for Justin and I either bring
Speaker 1: them to his house or take a picture and message
Speaker 1: them to him. To Justin, dear son, I got your letter,
Speaker 1: and I was glad you wrote. I really would like
Speaker 1: to get to know you a lot better. Tell me
Speaker 1: about you. How far did you go to school? Do
Speaker 1: you like sports? What kind of music do you like?
Speaker 3: Do Jeremy? Hey, dad?
Speaker 7: I spent majority of my life in Florida, and I
Speaker 7: want to say I'm book smart, but I'm definitely street smart.
Speaker 7: I'm talkative and quite at the same time. I pretty
Speaker 7: much learned to sit back and listen and only talk
Speaker 7: to learn. I like sports, anime, art, music.
Speaker 4: I like a lot of stuff.
Speaker 7: Well, my brain likes new stuff and I love challenges too.
Speaker 7: Mind games puzzles are a favorite.
Speaker 1: So tell me how tall are you. I'm about six
Speaker 1: feet and a half, got all my hair. I'm fifty
Speaker 1: four years old, same age as your mama. I don't
Speaker 1: know what all your mother has told you about me.
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that you understand I love
Speaker 1: your mom more than anything, and I always will if
Speaker 1: you talk with her, tell her. I said, hello, Okay,
Speaker 1: so how is your grandma doing. I'm sure that she
Speaker 1: told you about what me and your mom did. Took
Speaker 1: off with the car and then we were all over
Speaker 1: the state.
Speaker 7: I didn't know he took her car.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they went for some nig long road trip together.
Speaker 1: Boy was she mad?
Speaker 3: Boy was she mad?
Speaker 7: I bet she was.
Speaker 1: But I think if she was really mad, she would
Speaker 1: have called the cops faster, but she didn't. Once this
Speaker 1: communication has opened up, it revealed a side of Jeremy
Speaker 1: that I'd never truly seen in the four years we've
Speaker 1: been speaking Between them. There's an openness, almost a giddiness
Speaker 1: as they begin to learn about each other.
Speaker 7: To Jeremy, hey Dad, I got your letter from Gilbert
Speaker 7: and I was super excited. We're like pen pals in
Speaker 7: a way, except this father and his son.
Speaker 1: You were right, were like pen pals. I like that
Speaker 1: because I don't have many people to write me. I
Speaker 1: never knew who my father was. I always wanted to
Speaker 1: meet him, but I never did. I don't even know
Speaker 1: his name.
Speaker 3: Dear dad.
Speaker 7: I had a stepdad and some other father figures, but
Speaker 7: never got that father son bond, except with Henry and Todd.
Speaker 7: Henry was cool and married my grandma, but he died
Speaker 7: in the sleep. Todd was cool, and he taught me,
Speaker 7: my brother, Alie, and my sister how to defend ourselves.
Speaker 7: He had drug problems and got caught Robin Banks. He
Speaker 7: dated my mom for a bit.
Speaker 1: Dear Justin, I was looking at those pictures you sent
Speaker 1: of you and Vow. I couldn't stop myself from crying
Speaker 1: just seeing you with your son. It makes me so
Speaker 1: happy to see that the two of you together. I
Speaker 1: know Vow will be in good hands. Enjoy it while
Speaker 1: you can, because Vow will start growing, and before you
Speaker 1: know it, he will be a man with kids of
Speaker 1: his own. There's empathy and remorse, but there's also vulnerability.
Speaker 1: The raw knee Jeremy. He feels for family, for belonging.
Speaker 1: He takes pride in knowing his son has not followed
Speaker 1: the same path he did. He's trying on the role
Speaker 1: of a father, something he's never known, searching for ways
Speaker 1: to show love in a way he's never received. I
Speaker 1: hope one day that I will get to meet both
Speaker 1: of you, my son and grandson. So tell me about
Speaker 1: this family of yours.
Speaker 7: I have four kids now, but one of them is
Speaker 7: from my actual seat, but I love each one of
Speaker 7: them like they were my own. I've pretty much been
Speaker 7: winging life up until the point I had Bow, and
Speaker 7: then I started to learn about being responsible. Life could
Speaker 7: be amazing and scary as at times. Y'all can say Baul, Mama,
Speaker 7: Dad and Nana at the moment, and I get excited
Speaker 7: about the small things with thou.
Speaker 1: Sound like you are ready to walk down that road.
Speaker 1: She has three kids of her own. As long as
Speaker 1: you are happy and she is happy, that's all that matters.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for not being there for you growing up.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you are doing the right thing with
Speaker 1: your son.
Speaker 7: I'm not mad at you, by the way. I mean,
Speaker 7: I wish you would have thought before you acted, but
Speaker 7: we all make mistakes and we val and I appreciate
Speaker 7: the fact that you were at mad enough to still
Speaker 7: want to talk with me. I'm very proud of you too,
Speaker 7: and I'm super excited about you wanting to step forward
Speaker 7: and face your demons.
Speaker 1: Well son, maybe one day you can come to visit
Speaker 1: me that would be cool. Well, I hope to hear
Speaker 1: from you soon. I will close for now. I do
Speaker 1: love you, son. Don't you forget that.
Speaker 7: I'm standing beside you good, justin.
Speaker 1: Love, Dad, Jeremy.
Speaker 2: No, very early on you said learning all about this
Speaker 2: would actually help me be a better father. I'm just
Speaker 2: wondering if you still think about that.
Speaker 7: I think it has made me a better father, because
Speaker 7: I feel like it evolved from me worrying about me
Speaker 7: turning into him to me helping him find who he is.
Speaker 10: I don't hear you talking about wondering if you are
Speaker 10: your dad. I don't even think he's like himself. Now,
Speaker 10: how can I be like him if he's not like him?
Speaker 10: You know, you're not the scary Jeremy that everybody thought
Speaker 10: you was anymore. You're just you're messed up in the head.
Speaker 4: Jeremy.
Speaker 10: You know, and you need love.
Speaker 1: I asked Justin what does he hope to gain by
Speaker 1: learning his father's story and telling his own.
Speaker 7: I think it's more important to my family than anything else,
Speaker 7: because not just everybody's been through a lot. You know,
Speaker 7: it would just be nice for once in life a
Speaker 7: positive story. You know, if if I could have one
Speaker 7: positive story from a like a like a super bad situation,
Speaker 7: like no one in their right mind with everything Jeremy
Speaker 7: would do at one eighty like nobody. So what happens
Speaker 7: when you see him? You would want to know his story, right,
Speaker 7: You want to want to know what happened, what made
Speaker 7: him change, and to find out it was his heart.
Speaker 7: You know the hard work he put in, and you
Speaker 7: know the support team he has behind him, and everything else,
Speaker 7: it's just people gathering together and caring for one another.
Speaker 1: One of the things I told Justin is what Jeremy
Speaker 1: fears most. It's not a fear for his safety or
Speaker 1: his health in prison, but a fear about what will
Speaker 1: happen after he dies. The thought that haunts him most
Speaker 1: is being buried in the prison cemetery. And it turns
Speaker 1: out you'd have to have somebody that claim you, claim
Speaker 1: your body after your death. I don't want him buried.
Speaker 10: I don't care what state of mind he is or anything.
Speaker 7: I don't want him buried there.
Speaker 1: But he said he didn't think anybody in his immediate family,
Speaker 1: in putting his mother and his aunts would claim him.
Speaker 7: So he am I allowed to claim him. I think
Speaker 7: he would be then I'll claim him on that. I'm
Speaker 7: jumping right on that one, and if I can. Don't
Speaker 7: want it buried over here. I want him buried close
Speaker 7: to my other family. Just because someone does something bad
Speaker 7: doesn't mean they're not a family.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 1: He might not be the father, but he's still my dad.
Speaker 7: But he's going to be buried like a human being.
Speaker 1: At least give him that for the fight he put in.
Speaker 4: Said you were better with talking than writing.
Speaker 1: Let's just do a quick thing here. I just talked
Speaker 1: to him and I'll write it down afterwards and send it.
Speaker 7: To him just like I act like I'm talking to him. Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 7: all right there, Jeremy. It's justin your son. I had
Speaker 7: Christmas and I owne.
Speaker 1: Valley is a production of Lava for Good podcast in
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one.
Speaker 7: I just got your letter that you wrote to me
Speaker 7: from Gilbert today too, and it really sucks about not
Speaker 7: being able to visit yet. But we'll try to set
Speaker 7: up a thing to go visit soon enough and it
Speaker 7: will be a lot.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kepler, and Kevin Wurdis.
Speaker 7: But I did give permission to talk to you about
Speaker 7: my daughter. That's going to be. Yeah, I'm kind of
Speaker 7: starting mown tree kind of thing now. And you know
Speaker 7: they have a grandfather now to look up for, so
Speaker 7: you got to make sure you stay in line for them,
Speaker 7: keep your head.
Speaker 1: Caro Cornhaber is our senior producer. Jackie Pauley and Hannah
Speaker 1: bial are our producers.
Speaker 2: What do you think?
Speaker 3: What's your prediction for tomorrow?
Speaker 6: Jeremy Kansas City? All day, the history will be made.
Speaker 7: Hey, dad, Sorry for the late response, but Gilbert did
Speaker 7: really good and gave me your birthday letter rite on
Speaker 7: my birthday. It really brightened up my day and everything.
Speaker 1: I felt like a little.
Speaker 9: Kid, you know.
Speaker 1: Rit Spangler is our sound designer. Marianne mckuwne is our editor.
Speaker 1: Fact checking by Dania Suleiman.
Speaker 3: Sure, I got two more bikes, but I don't know
Speaker 3: if I'll ride them again or not. We'll see.
Speaker 6: It kind of takes your time, that's all. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 6: like putting tricycle wheels on her and just learning, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's a pretty good idea. All right, buddy,
Speaker 3: You take care of you.
Speaker 1: Jeff Clyburn is our head of Marketing and Operations, our
Speaker 1: social media director is is Maati Guardrama.
Speaker 7: And Gwinnevere was born.
Speaker 12: She's so beautiful.
Speaker 7: I'll eventually be able to send you.
Speaker 1: Pictures of Our social media manager is Sarah Gibbons and
Speaker 1: our art director is Andrew Nelson.
Speaker 7: Everything's been going good. I really do care about your dad,
Speaker 7: and I want to say happy birthday as well.
Speaker 5: I hope you get this before your birthday, but happy birthday,
Speaker 5: old man.
Speaker 4: I love you justin all right.
Speaker 6: Let Mary know I called you too, for she works.
Speaker 9: I will right now her.
Speaker 8: I said, everything that is good okay, and I'm goost
Speaker 8: sad her.
Speaker 6: I'm gonna send her a snapshot picture.
Speaker 1: Additional research and production by Kelsey Decker. Additional sound recording
Speaker 1: by James Johnson.
Speaker 12: He said they just had dinner and it was coas law,
Speaker 12: two pieces of bread and a rat patty. I said,
Speaker 12: what's a rat patty? And he said it's a Hamburger
Speaker 12: patty that has no real bone.
Speaker 1: Valley is written and produced by me Gilbert King. Follow
Speaker 1: us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and threads at Lava for good.
Speaker 7: Stay good and stay on the right track, all right.
Speaker 3: I love you Dad.
Speaker 7: I don't know why I said bye.
Speaker 2: That was like a letter.
Speaker 4: Then you beat your head