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Speaker 1: In December of twenty twenty four, I returned to Polk

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Speaker 1: County to give a talk about all my reporting in

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Speaker 1: central Florida. It was a cold winter evening in Lakeland,

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Speaker 1: and downtown shimmered with Christmas decorations. I was just about

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Speaker 1: to enter the lobby the Polk Theater when people were

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Speaker 1: already milling about, when I saw a man in a

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Speaker 1: flannel jacket and a leather vest walking toward me on

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Speaker 1: the sidewalk. It was Leo, surprising me. He had a

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Speaker 1: big smile on his face and be hugged right there

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Speaker 1: on the street. It must be pretty surreal being back

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Speaker 1: in Lakeland, I said. Together, we walked into the theater

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Speaker 1: lobby and Leo was swarm by Bone Valley fans who

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Speaker 1: approached him for photos and conversation. I watched him drift

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Speaker 1: through the crowd, chatting with everyone, even a Polk County

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Speaker 1: deputy who said he just finished listening to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: After I finished my talk, I brought Leo onto the stage.

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Speaker 1: So are there any updates that you can share about Leo?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's very interesting update where some of you are aware,

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Speaker 2: but mister Schofield, Leo.

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Speaker 1: Scofield is here tonight. Yes, Leo, where are you buddy?

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Speaker 1: We sat down next to me and took questions from

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Speaker 1: the audience.

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Speaker 3: Leo, can you tell us how you're doing on the

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Speaker 3: day to day, you and Chrissy and with your grand babies.

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Speaker 3: Just tell us about your life, because we are so

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Speaker 3: thrilled to see you here tonight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for that.

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Speaker 3: I'm doing great. This is a very surreal moment for

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Speaker 3: me because I was just sitting there thinking he was.

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Speaker 1: As graceful as ever, sharing memories of his years in

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Speaker 1: Lakeland and the decades long fight to prove his innocence

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Speaker 1: and thank you Leo. At the end the night, he

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Speaker 1: received a standing ovation and he lingered for more photos

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Speaker 1: with fans. It was late now, and I walked him

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Speaker 1: to his bike. He pulled his helmet down, swung his

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Speaker 1: leg over as Harley Davidson, and fired it up. For

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Speaker 1: a moment, he just sat there, smiling, proud, like a

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Speaker 1: man who had returned to Polk County and finally took

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Speaker 1: back a piece of himself. Then he rode off and

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Speaker 1: I watched the red glow of his tail light disappear

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Speaker 1: into the night. The next time I saw him a

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Speaker 1: month later, he wasn't on a bike. He was in

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Speaker 1: a hospital bed. Leo had been riding his Harley one night,

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Speaker 1: his dog Ashley on the back when a driver made

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Speaker 1: a sudden left turn in front of them. There was

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Speaker 1: no time to stop. Leo suffered an open book pelvis fracture,

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Speaker 1: a torn bladder, a broken back, and shattered hands, wrists,

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Speaker 1: and an ankle. Ashley's injuries were only slightly less severe.

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Speaker 1: Leo told me the pain was unbearable, with plates and

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Speaker 1: screws now holding his body together. He worried about whether

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Speaker 1: he'd ever walk again, let alone play guitar. He was

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Speaker 1: laying in a bed in the living room with the

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Speaker 1: home he now shared with his wife, Chrissy. Due to

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Speaker 1: the severity of Leo's accident, the Florida Parole Commission allowed

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Speaker 1: him to leave the half way house and move home.

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Speaker 1: I'd come to visit Leo partly because something interesting had

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Speaker 1: come up in my ongoing investigation, something I'd never known

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Speaker 1: before and something that could make a difference. I was

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Speaker 1: just telling Leo about it when I got a phone call.

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Speaker 1: I looked at the screen and saw who it was,

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Speaker 1: showed it to Leo, whose eyes widened. Should I take this,

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Speaker 1: I asked him. He nodded and sat up straight.

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Speaker 3: Hey you there, Hey, Jeremy.

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Speaker 1: Do you my man? I have to have my feet.

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Speaker 4: Sru step sorry list in this vastly tear uh see

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Speaker 4: relation a breach Things.

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Speaker 1: Bone Valley, Season two, Jeremy, Chapter six, Walk down that Road.

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Speaker 1: The news I was telling Leo that day was about Jeremy.

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Speaker 1: He had called me a few weeks earlier from the

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Speaker 1: new prison he'd been transferred to, and he was in

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Speaker 1: a pretty decent mood. So I asked him a question

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Speaker 1: I'd always been curious about. It was about something he'd

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Speaker 1: said in court when the State of Florida was deciding

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Speaker 1: whether Jeremy's confession was enough to grant Leo a new trial.

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Speaker 5: Do you remember in twenty seventeen when they brought you

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Speaker 5: back to the evidentiary hearing, that woman Victoria Avalon, she

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Speaker 5: was the one that questioned you for the state.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, she was fashion me.

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Speaker 1: In this hearing. Prosecutor of Victoria Avalon approached Jeremy and

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Speaker 1: showed him a picture that she shielded from the gallery.

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Speaker 5: You know what her big thing was When she showed

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Speaker 5: you the picture and she said, look at this.

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Speaker 1: As soon as Jeremy saw it, he turned his head away.

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Speaker 1: He didn't want to look, said he'd seen it before.

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Speaker 3: See it again.

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Speaker 4: Is this what you did to Huff?

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Speaker 7: No, I didn't hear that answer.

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Speaker 4: No I didn't do it.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to know what picture Avalon had showed him

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Speaker 1: and what Jeremy really meant when he said, no, I

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Speaker 1: didn't do that.

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Speaker 8: Ye showed me a naked picture picture of Michelle.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, Michelle and you.

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Speaker 3: You you you said I didn't do that.

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Speaker 6: The way the way is the way they was trying

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Speaker 6: to say that I raped her. That's but that's what

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Speaker 6: these people is getting an idea of brom from her.

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Speaker 5: So that's what that's what you thought.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, she only had a dead picture, no way, No, No,

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Speaker 6: they don't know she had all her clothes on, she

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Speaker 6: had jury on everything. Yeah, I mean, but this is

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Speaker 6: the way they came at me. Would that you know,

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Speaker 6: showing me the picture?

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Speaker 9: Right?

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Speaker 5: The autopsy reports said there was no sexual anything.

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Speaker 3: There's no evidence of that.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: No, that's well, that's why that's what makes killing me.

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Speaker 1: On the stand. He thought that Avalon was accusing him

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Speaker 1: of raping Michelle, that he left her like that naked

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Speaker 1: at the crime scene, something he knew was not true.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, man, Well I don't. I might be.

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Speaker 6: I might. I might do a lot of crazy stuff

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Speaker 6: in my in my life, man, but I ain't. I

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Speaker 6: ain't part there.

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Speaker 1: Avalon argued to the judge that when Jeremy said no,

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Speaker 1: I didn't do that, he was recanting his confession, and

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Speaker 1: the Polk County judge agreed. He ruled that Jeremy had recanted,

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Speaker 1: and with that, Leo Schofield was denied a new trial,

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Speaker 1: even though some of Jeremy's last words in the hearing

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Speaker 1: were I killed her.

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Speaker 6: I still don't understand why I did it that night.

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Speaker 6: I can't say alcohol did.

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Speaker 8: It, where drugs didn't, whatever, because.

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Speaker 6: It's still make no ex q C in it.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't know. When I went to Leo's house

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Speaker 1: that day after the motorcycle crash, it was to play

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Speaker 1: in the recording of my call with Jeremy so he

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Speaker 1: would finally know for sure that Jeremy didn't recant his confession.

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Speaker 1: The state had gotten it wrong. And the four years

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Speaker 1: I've been talking to Jeremy, he has never once denied

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Speaker 1: killing Michelle. It was when I was standing next to

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Speaker 1: Leo's bed that my phone rang. The caller ID displayed

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Speaker 1: a prison in North Florida. It's Jeremy, I told Leo.

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Speaker 1: Should I pick up?

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Speaker 2: Hey?

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Speaker 9: You there?

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Speaker 1: Leo nodded, Hey, I just got.

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Speaker 3: To tell you something. I don't know how you feel

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Speaker 3: about this, but I just happened to be with Leo

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Speaker 3: right now.

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Speaker 1: Jeremy was calling from his new prison. He was no

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Speaker 1: longer in solitary confinement. Now he was in protective management

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Speaker 1: with around eighty other inmates like Jeremy who have to

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Speaker 1: be separated from general population for their safety. I told

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Speaker 1: him Leo had been in a serious motorcycle accident with.

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Speaker 3: All these broken bones. Is he gonna be all right?

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Speaker 5: I don't know, man, I think he's going to be

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Speaker 5: all right. He's very coherent, but he's got a lot

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Speaker 5: of broken bones. You want to say hello to him.

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Speaker 1: I put the phone on speaker and held it out

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Speaker 1: in front of Leo, who screwed it up in his bed.

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Speaker 3: He's right here, Hey, Jeremy, how are you? Bud? I

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Speaker 3: was in a motorcycle action with my daughter and got

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Speaker 3: broken up.

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Speaker 1: Leo explained the accident, how he and his daughter had

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Speaker 1: both suffered serious injuries. There was a nervous energy between them,

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Speaker 1: an awkwardness and the small talk, but Leo didn't linger there.

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Speaker 1: He got right to the point.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm going to have to do that all over again, Jeremy.

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Speaker 3: I want to tell you something, and this is coming

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Speaker 3: from a long time of prayer and you know, just

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Speaker 3: a lot of thought. And I'm grateful for the opportunity

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Speaker 3: to thank you for telling the truth. I want you

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Speaker 3: to know that I forgive you with all my heart.

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Speaker 1: Silence stretched on the other end, as Leo continued, you.

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Speaker 3: Got a lot of people that care about you now

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Speaker 3: because you did the right thing. And uh, it means

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Speaker 3: a lot to me, it means a lot to my family.

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Speaker 3: And uh, I thank you for that, and thank you

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Speaker 3: with all my heart, Bud.

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Speaker 6: I thank you, bro.

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Speaker 1: In one of his letters, Jeremy had written, I hope

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Speaker 1: someday I will come face to face with Leo so

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Speaker 1: I can look at him and say I'm sorry for

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Speaker 1: what I did. But now on the phone, Jeremy seemed

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Speaker 1: lost for words, his nervousness filling the silence. Leo guided

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Speaker 1: him almost instinctively, helping a fellow inmate steady himself.

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Speaker 3: Hey, I heard you met Oscar good friends. Yeah, he

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Speaker 3: misses you me. He he called me last week. He

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Speaker 3: told me when you were leave and he uh, he

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Speaker 3: missed coming by and seeing you. But I'm glad you're

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Speaker 3: out of there, buddy. You got stay out of trouble man.

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Speaker 6: You know, and of buried me there thirty six years.

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Speaker 6: I don't know, man, I mean it's getting.

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Speaker 3: To me now.

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Speaker 6: I guess I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I hear you. I definitely hear you.

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Speaker 1: Leo knew that number too well. It was how long

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Speaker 1: he had waited for freedom. Jeremy talked about his recent

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Speaker 1: transfer and the struggles adjusting to life there. Leo listened,

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Speaker 1: his concern genuine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just a step down phase complete it so

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Speaker 3: you can get out. You'll get out of there. You

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Speaker 3: know you'll get out of there. You gotta.

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Speaker 1: After years in prison, Leo knew how to navigate hardship.

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Speaker 1: He reassured Jeremy that he could get through this.

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Speaker 3: So you got You've got friends out here that care

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Speaker 3: about you. They're not going to lie to you. They're

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Speaker 3: not going to tell you short they're not going to

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Speaker 3: tell you stories, none of that stuff. You gained a

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Speaker 3: lot of respect with the people out here, just because

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Speaker 3: you were brave enough to tell the truth. And that

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Speaker 3: was a big deal, Jeremy. That was a really big

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Speaker 3: deal because it changed my life, and I definitely appreciate

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Speaker 3: you for it.

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Speaker 1: Leo stared at the phone I was holding.

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Speaker 6: In front of him, just taking on this happen, Bro,

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Speaker 6: I really did.

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Speaker 1: I just hate it that this happened, Bro, I really did.

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Speaker 1: At that moment, with Jeremy standing at the telephone surrounded

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Speaker 1: by other inmates, I realized this might be his apology.

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Speaker 1: These were the words he had chosen for a place

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Speaker 1: where any display of vulnerability could be dangerous.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry it happened at all. But now

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Speaker 3: it's your turn to stop doing right, you hear me.

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Speaker 3: You just keep doing your part and you're gonna be

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Speaker 3: all right. Okay.

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Speaker 6: I had changed my life over and that thought.

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Speaker 3: I'd never do that. I believe in you, Jeremy. You're

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Speaker 3: going to do well. You hear me.

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Speaker 1: You keep praying for me, he tells Leo.

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Speaker 3: I will won't stop, Jeremy, I promise.

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Speaker 1: Leo handed me my phone and I told Jeremy goodbye

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Speaker 1: for now, said we talk again. Later, just as I

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Speaker 1: was about to end the call. I thought I heard

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Speaker 1: his voice again, mister King. I put the phone to

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Speaker 1: my ear. Jeremy was still there.

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Speaker 5: Hey, Jeremy, can you Yeah, Hey, I'm glad you got

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Speaker 5: a chance.

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Speaker 1: Okay, thank you, my pleasure there, he said, I really

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Speaker 1: thank you for that.

233
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Speaker 3: Thank you for using global telling.

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Speaker 4: He was getting chumped up.

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Speaker 8: Thank you, Joy.

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Speaker 6: That was feing weird.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm thinking as I've been going, I'm thinking, now

238
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Speaker 3: this is my wife's martyr. Yeah, I know, I know,

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Speaker 3: I know. It doesn't get more real than that.

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Speaker 10: You know.

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Speaker 3: I was praying and I told God, I said, I'm

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Speaker 3: gonna forgive him because I know that's what you want

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Speaker 3: me to do. But the test of that was today.

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Speaker 1: Later on, Jeremy called me again.

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Speaker 3: Hello hear me? Yeah, hey hey.

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Speaker 1: I asked if it helped hearing Leo's words, and I

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Speaker 1: ain't gonna lie.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it really freaked me out talking to him,

249
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Speaker 6: but it made me feel a lot better.

250
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Speaker 8: No, well, I near it broke me down, No, dude,

251
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Speaker 8: I get I get very good emotional, you know. Yeah,

252
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 8: but to hear him be free was really really touching,

253
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Speaker 8: you know, because because he never de started to be

254
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Speaker 8: in prison, like the tape doesn't.

255
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Speaker 1: Mean he says his life's been taken because of me. Yeah,

256
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 1: Jeremy knows he took Michelle Scofield's life too. Forever. He's

257
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Speaker 1: spoken to me many times about Michelle and her family

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00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:20,920
Speaker 1: with what I understand as sincere remorse. It reminds me

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00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,600
Speaker 1: of some condemned men moments from execution, who in their

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Speaker 1: final words, attempt to ease the suffering they caused. Listening

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00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,040
Speaker 1: to Jeremy now, I couldn't help but think of Michelle's

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Speaker 1: family and whether his contrition might possibly offer a tiny

263
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Speaker 1: measure of consolation.

264
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Speaker 7: Sorry, tearing my nose off when I get nervous.

265
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Speaker 1: It's been tough finding time to meet with Justin lately.

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Speaker 1: He'd been so busy with work and caring for his

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Speaker 1: kids with Ariel. To make things easier, they move north,

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Speaker 1: back to Lakeland so they have more family support. Now

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Speaker 1: Justin's mom, Jamie, is there for his kids in ways

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Speaker 1: she wasn't always able to be there for him in

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Speaker 1: the past.

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Speaker 7: What I want out of her is to be more

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Speaker 7: involved with the grandkids, like I want her to make

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Speaker 7: up her past with the grandkids.

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Speaker 10: That would mean more to me than anything you know

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Speaker 10: because we know where we're at.

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Speaker 1: When I first met Justin, I could tell how excited

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Speaker 1: he was about going down this path with me. He

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00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,160
Speaker 1: wanted to solve all the mysteries about how he came

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Speaker 1: into the world, to know everything, but I wanted to

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Speaker 1: deliver the details gently. So I promised Justin I'd come

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Speaker 1: back to him with everything I'd learned, especially from his mom,

283
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 1: and now it was time for him to hear it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so I'm just going to give you some some some

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Speaker 1: of the things that Jamie said and just talk to

286
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Speaker 1: you about them. I could tell that Justin was nervous.

287
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,040
Speaker 1: It was almost like now he was realizing the reason

288
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:19,680
Speaker 1: for Jamie's silence over the years. It was hard for

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00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,359
Speaker 1: Jamie to say some of these things, so it's going

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00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,640
Speaker 1: to be hard for Justin to hear them. I started

291
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:32,840
Speaker 1: from the beginning, so she starts talking about meeting Jeremy

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00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,840
Speaker 1: at seventeen and the piercing blue eyes.

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Speaker 9: The first thing I thought was his eyes. He had

294
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Speaker 9: the most piercing eyes.

295
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,960
Speaker 1: I told Justin about how Jamie first met Jeremy and

296
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Speaker 1: why she was drawn to him.

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Speaker 9: Well, we found that club secrets. Jeremy came in and

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Speaker 9: none of us had ever seen him before. And we

299
00:18:58,280 --> 00:18:58,919
Speaker 9: danced and.

300
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:00,879
Speaker 3: That was it.

301
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,119
Speaker 1: And she talked about learning about his activities and some

302
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,919
Speaker 1: of the things he used to do was hang around

303
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,560
Speaker 1: these gay bars, like there was one called Fantasy two

304
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,960
Speaker 1: thousand and another one called the Green Parrot. Parrots over here, Yeah,

305
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:13,680
Speaker 1: you've probably seen me.

306
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:14,720
Speaker 10: I've been there with him.

307
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,080
Speaker 9: Well, Jeremy he waited outside Green Parrot and they knew

308
00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:21,600
Speaker 9: he was there and jumped him and he got some

309
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:22,720
Speaker 9: of his own medicine.

310
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 1: I told Justin how Jeremy had done a short stint

311
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: in prison in nineteen eighty eight for burglary, and how

312
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: when he'd gotten out, he'd come back into Jamie's life

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00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:37,120
Speaker 1: a different person, darker, more violent.

314
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Speaker 9: And that's when his eyes were empty, and there was nothing.

315
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 9: I mean, he never smiled, there was no love there.

316
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 1: It was all fear. I told him about how his

317
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,280
Speaker 1: mom was with Jeremy when he was arrested for the

318
00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: murder of Donald Morehead and so they put her.

319
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Speaker 9: In the car.

320
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Speaker 11: But she talks about that moment of being in the

321
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:00,960
Speaker 11: police car and just like finally it's over. Somebody I

322
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,199
Speaker 11: need to worry about. I don't need to be threatened

323
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,080
Speaker 11: by anymore scared of So that was a really big

324
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,440
Speaker 11: moment in her life to just sort of be free

325
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 11: from him that way in because, you know, be able

326
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:13,119
Speaker 11: to breathe, and.

327
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 9: When they shut that door, I could breathe.

328
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Speaker 3: Yeah.

329
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,400
Speaker 1: It occurred to me that Justin might never have known

330
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 1: the full story of how he came into this world

331
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 1: if his father, Jeremy Scott had never agreed to talk

332
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Speaker 1: to me, and his mother Jamie might never have opened up.

333
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,159
Speaker 1: If Justin hadn't reached out wanting to know everything a family.

334
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 9: He hadn't seen a family brought up right. He's heard

335
00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 9: about his dad's family, he's seen our family, which is

336
00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 9: dysfunctional as all get out. And I think in the

337
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 9: back of his mind he wanted a family brought up right.

338
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 9: He wants his family to be loved and to have

339
00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,160
Speaker 9: the mother and father and to have that dynamic. I'm

340
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 9: at core, you know that's what he wants for his kids.

341
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,440
Speaker 2: And Justin's family is growing, and you also mentioned have

342
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 2: some good news to tell me, but you're waiting for

343
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 2: you to tell me.

344
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 4: Firston Yeah, all right, yes, so my girl's pregnant.

345
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:21,040
Speaker 2: Oh man, Yeah, congratulations Justin and his girlfriend Ariel will

346
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 2: be welcoming a fifth child into the family.

347
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:27,320
Speaker 4: I see.

348
00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,880
Speaker 9: Him with foul and I see him with those girls,

349
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 9: and how good he is, and the fear that he

350
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,880
Speaker 9: has that he's going to ruin it. Not that something.

351
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,840
Speaker 1: Justin's family has always tried to reassure him, you are

352
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 1: not your father, but Jamie's view on this has shifted us.

353
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 9: He is and for me to tell him he's not

354
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 9: his father.

355
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 10: He knows I'm lying.

356
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:58,680
Speaker 9: He looks in the mirror and sees his father, you know,

357
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 9: because he's seen pictures of his He's googled everything. I've

358
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:04,119
Speaker 9: realized he.

359
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:05,160
Speaker 4: Is his father.

360
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 10: He's just the good side of Jeremy.

361
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,880
Speaker 9: He's the one that made me realize.

362
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 2: She wanted you to know that Jeremy also had a

363
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 2: good side to him, and that you know that he

364
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,639
Speaker 2: could be charming, and he could be sweet and caring

365
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 2: and empathic at times.

366
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: And she made a point of saying that, like she

367
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 1: started looking.

368
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 10: At it differently when she saw you growing up, Like

369
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,679
Speaker 10: all the good things she saw out of them.

370
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: Right right.

371
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 9: I told you he's what Jeremy could have been with

372
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 9: a different childhood, if Jeremy had had the love and

373
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,480
Speaker 9: the nursering and didn't get hit in the head and

374
00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 9: didn't have the upbringing he had, had the attention he needed,

375
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 9: And that's the difference. Jeremy had defend for himself and

376
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 9: was pretty much thrown out on the streets when he

377
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 9: was a little kid and had to learn how to survive.

378
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:06,240
Speaker 9: I don't think Jeremy's an evil person. I really don't,

379
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 9: but he does evil things and he always will. He's

380
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 9: not going to change, and it's not because he's an

381
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,639
Speaker 9: evil person. It's because he has no control, he doesn't

382
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 9: know how to, and a part of me feel sorry

383
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 9: for him.

384
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: There was one part of Jamie's story that I wanted

385
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 1: to make sure I got right when I told it

386
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: to Justin, so I read him what his mom said

387
00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 1: about the day he was born. She says they went

388
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: into really, really hard labor and he was in stress.

389
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 1: It was just it was scary, and he ended up

390
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 1: being in the hospital for like six weeks, and I

391
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: couldn't hold him like I'm touching.

392
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 9: I couldn't touch him. And then I would sit there

393
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,440
Speaker 9: and I would look at him, and I just fell

394
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,920
Speaker 9: so in love with this baby, and I just knew

395
00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 9: I just knew.

396
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 10: He was mine.

397
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 9: I didn't care who his dad was, I didn't care

398
00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 9: how he came. That was my baby, that was my child.

399
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,360
Speaker 9: I think he's one of the best things.

400
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: I've ever done. He really is.

401
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 9: That little boy has saved me, and I love him

402
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 9: so much, and I'm so proud of him and so

403
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 9: proud of what he's become.

404
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 4: In spite of me and in spite of his father.

405
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 4: He is one of the most wonderful people.

406
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 10: I've never heard of talk like that.

407
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 7: She's always had in trouble expressing her emotions. I knew

408
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 7: how she felt. No, she's closed off.

409
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 10: I don't know.

410
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what to think. That made me want

411
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 1: to cry some that you know, and I know she

412
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 1: loves me.

413
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 10: I know she loves me.

414
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: Testing one two three, testing one two three. Okay, just

415
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: saw Justin pull into the parking lot, so he should

416
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: be up here any second. The very first time I

417
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: talked to Justin, he told me he wanted to start

418
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: communicating with his dad.

419
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: Hey, you made it.

420
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 4: Four minutes late, Okay, you four minutes hold you.

421
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: He wanted to, but he couldn't figure out how he

422
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: needed my help with the logistics. Ariel wasn't comfortable with

423
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: the idea of Jeremy sending his letters to Justin at

424
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 1: their house. And I think Justin needed my help emotionally

425
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: too that way.

426
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 4: But you know, before we.

427
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: Still let me just do this real quick.

428
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 4: I know I can imagine you are.

429
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 3: You know.

430
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,879
Speaker 1: The funny thing is Jeremy's kind of excited too, Like

431
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: I told him that, you know, it's hard to write

432
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 1: these letters, And I said, Justin had been trying to

433
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: write his dad, but each time he tried, he struggled

434
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:23,360
Speaker 1: to find the words, you know, or anything.

435
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 8: And I know so many years I.

436
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: Know, so Jeremy, after waiting weeks for a letter from

437
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,720
Speaker 1: his son, couldn't wait anymore. He wrote Justin a letter

438
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 1: and sent it to me so I could deliver it

439
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: in person. He asked me to give you this is

440
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,800
Speaker 1: his handwriting, or is able? That's his everything is his handwriting.

441
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,240
Speaker 1: I think Justin smiled as I handed in the letter,

442
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,639
Speaker 1: but as soon as he held it, I saw his

443
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: eyes start to well up, and all I could think

444
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:55,479
Speaker 1: about was how carefully Jeremy had written this letter, how

445
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: he talked to Mary about finding the right words, about

446
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: how to say what he really felt. Oh, you cursive.

447
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 4: Cursive, but I can't write like this.

448
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 7: You want me to read it out loud?

449
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 1: Do you mind?

450
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 3: I don't go for it.

451
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 4: That's a little nervous. They're justin.

452
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 7: I was told that you were gonna write me. I

453
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 7: guess it's kind of hard for you. We really don't

454
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 7: know each other. I would like to get to know

455
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 7: you better. I know it's hard for you not knowing

456
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 7: what to say. I don't know what you have heard

457
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 7: about me. But if you want to ask me something anything,

458
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 7: you are a grown man, and I won't lie to you.

459
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 7: There's a lot of stuff I did grown up, and

460
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 7: I hate myself for those things. I hurt your mother,

461
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,640
Speaker 7: the only woman to ever loved me, and I hurt

462
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 7: my family. I'm fifty four year old now. I have

463
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 7: done a lot of thinking since I've been walked up.

464
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 7: I gave my whole life away from nothing, but it

465
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 7: cost me everything that I love. I don't know how

466
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 7: your mother feels about me these thy He still thinks

467
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 7: about my mom's Yeah, he does, justin. I'm sorry for

468
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 7: not being there for you. I know what it is

469
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 7: like growing up with no farther around. I can't change

470
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 7: the time. If I could then we would still be

471
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 7: a family. Now that makes me happy too, cause he

472
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 7: wants you know what I mean, he's not a monster.

473
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 7: I have heard that you have a son, that his

474
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 7: name is Val and his tears. Oh, mister King has

475
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,680
Speaker 7: told me that he uh visit with you without Yeah

476
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 7: at a playground.

477
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 4: He told me.

478
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,160
Speaker 7: He told me how you were playing with Val and

479
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 7: how the two of you were having fun. I'm glad

480
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 7: that you spend time with your son and makes me

481
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 7: so happy to hear about that, the.

482
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:55,280
Speaker 3: Two of you.

483
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 4: That makes most m ms t.

484
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 7: Mister King said that you are a very awful young

485
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 7: man and then a dedicated father.

486
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 4: So you work as a manager. That's good.

487
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 7: Uh, I sure didn't keep us up. Spent a long

488
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,000
Speaker 7: time since I hear from anyone in my family. When

489
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 7: Grandma passed a while back, and I wish you could

490
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 7: have spent some time with your great grandma. She saw

491
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 7: you back in eight oh, so she did get us.

492
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 7: I was told that you would like to meet some

493
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 7: of my family. That would be nice. Well soon I

494
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 7: wanted to write and hope that this will help you

495
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 7: to write me. Just you ask anything that you want. Well,

496
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 7: I'm sorry it has taken so long to write, give

497
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 7: my grandson to hug a bunch of kisses a day,

498
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 7: and that its oh, you take care of yourself.

499
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 4: Love that. Then he put happy for it for the life.

500
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 7: I mean, obviously, you know we're past that age of

501
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 7: for me being a kid and that and everything.

502
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 4: But one thing that it makes me have is that connection.

503
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: Feeling like a kid again. Watching Justin read this letter

504
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: and take in Jeremy's words is complicated for me. This

505
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 1: isn't some story about a long lost father reconnecting with

506
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: his son through a genealogy website. This is different. This

507
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: is heavy, and I'm always careful to keep expectations low.

508
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: The father in this story is still locked inside the

509
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 1: dead end of prison where he'll spend the rest of

510
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 1: his life. But Justin seems to understand this. He's realistic

511
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: and he wants to give his father a chance.

512
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 7: Okay, So this was about four or five days ago,

513
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 7: cause I started on it and I ain't gonna lie.

514
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 7: I went started to the first sentence and then I

515
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 7: stopped cause I didn't know what they're right, writer's block, Yeah,

516
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 7: And then I wrote it again. So, dear Dad, even

517
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 7: as I think of what to write down to start

518
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,760
Speaker 7: my letter off. I just keep thinking how this is

519
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 7: the start of our relationship, which I think is awesome.

520
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 1: I had Justin and Jeremy keep writing letters to each other.

521
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 1: Jeremy mails me his for Justin and I either bring

522
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 1: them to his house or take a picture and message

523
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: them to him. To Justin, dear son, I got your letter,

524
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: and I was glad you wrote. I really would like

525
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: to get to know you a lot better. Tell me

526
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:58,560
Speaker 1: about you. How far did you go to school? Do

527
00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: you like sports? What kind of music do you like?

528
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: Do Jeremy? Hey, dad?

529
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 7: I spent majority of my life in Florida, and I

530
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 7: want to say I'm book smart, but I'm definitely street smart.

531
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 7: I'm talkative and quite at the same time. I pretty

532
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 7: much learned to sit back and listen and only talk

533
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 7: to learn. I like sports, anime, art, music.

534
00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 4: I like a lot of stuff.

535
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 7: Well, my brain likes new stuff and I love challenges too.

536
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 7: Mind games puzzles are a favorite.

537
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: So tell me how tall are you. I'm about six

538
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: feet and a half, got all my hair. I'm fifty

539
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: four years old, same age as your mama. I don't

540
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: know what all your mother has told you about me.

541
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: I want to make sure that you understand I love

542
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: your mom more than anything, and I always will if

543
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 1: you talk with her, tell her. I said, hello, Okay,

544
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: so how is your grandma doing. I'm sure that she

545
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 1: told you about what me and your mom did. Took

546
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: off with the car and then we were all over

547
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: the state.

548
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 7: I didn't know he took her car.

549
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, they went for some nig long road trip together.

550
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: Boy was she mad?

551
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: Boy was she mad?

552
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 7: I bet she was.

553
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: But I think if she was really mad, she would

554
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: have called the cops faster, but she didn't. Once this

555
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 1: communication has opened up, it revealed a side of Jeremy

556
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: that I'd never truly seen in the four years we've

557
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: been speaking Between them. There's an openness, almost a giddiness

558
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: as they begin to learn about each other.

559
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 7: To Jeremy, hey Dad, I got your letter from Gilbert

560
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 7: and I was super excited. We're like pen pals in

561
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 7: a way, except this father and his son.

562
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: You were right, were like pen pals. I like that

563
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 1: because I don't have many people to write me. I

564
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 1: never knew who my father was. I always wanted to

565
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: meet him, but I never did. I don't even know

566
00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: his name.

567
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 3: Dear dad.

568
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 7: I had a stepdad and some other father figures, but

569
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 7: never got that father son bond, except with Henry and Todd.

570
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 7: Henry was cool and married my grandma, but he died

571
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 7: in the sleep. Todd was cool, and he taught me,

572
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 7: my brother, Alie, and my sister how to defend ourselves.

573
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 7: He had drug problems and got caught Robin Banks. He

574
00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 7: dated my mom for a bit.

575
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: Dear Justin, I was looking at those pictures you sent

576
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: of you and Vow. I couldn't stop myself from crying

577
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: just seeing you with your son. It makes me so

578
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,800
Speaker 1: happy to see that the two of you together. I

579
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: know Vow will be in good hands. Enjoy it while

580
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 1: you can, because Vow will start growing, and before you

581
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: know it, he will be a man with kids of

582
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: his own. There's empathy and remorse, but there's also vulnerability.

583
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: The raw knee Jeremy. He feels for family, for belonging.

584
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: He takes pride in knowing his son has not followed

585
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: the same path he did. He's trying on the role

586
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: of a father, something he's never known, searching for ways

587
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: to show love in a way he's never received. I

588
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: hope one day that I will get to meet both

589
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: of you, my son and grandson. So tell me about

590
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: this family of yours.

591
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 7: I have four kids now, but one of them is

592
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 7: from my actual seat, but I love each one of

593
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,839
Speaker 7: them like they were my own. I've pretty much been

594
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,000
Speaker 7: winging life up until the point I had Bow, and

595
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 7: then I started to learn about being responsible. Life could

596
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 7: be amazing and scary as at times. Y'all can say Baul, Mama,

597
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 7: Dad and Nana at the moment, and I get excited

598
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 7: about the small things with thou.

599
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: Sound like you are ready to walk down that road.

600
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 1: She has three kids of her own. As long as

601
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: you are happy and she is happy, that's all that matters.

602
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: I'm sorry for not being there for you growing up.

603
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,759
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you are doing the right thing with

604
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: your son.

605
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 7: I'm not mad at you, by the way. I mean,

606
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 7: I wish you would have thought before you acted, but

607
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 7: we all make mistakes and we val and I appreciate

608
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 7: the fact that you were at mad enough to still

609
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 7: want to talk with me. I'm very proud of you too,

610
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 7: and I'm super excited about you wanting to step forward

611
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 7: and face your demons.

612
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: Well son, maybe one day you can come to visit

613
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,759
Speaker 1: me that would be cool. Well, I hope to hear

614
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: from you soon. I will close for now. I do

615
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,040
Speaker 1: love you, son. Don't you forget that.

616
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 7: I'm standing beside you good, justin.

617
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: Love, Dad, Jeremy.

618
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 2: No, very early on you said learning all about this

619
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 2: would actually help me be a better father. I'm just

620
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 2: wondering if you still think about that.

621
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 7: I think it has made me a better father, because

622
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 7: I feel like it evolved from me worrying about me

623
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 7: turning into him to me helping him find who he is.

624
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 10: I don't hear you talking about wondering if you are

625
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,279
Speaker 10: your dad. I don't even think he's like himself. Now,

626
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 10: how can I be like him if he's not like him?

627
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 10: You know, you're not the scary Jeremy that everybody thought

628
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 10: you was anymore. You're just you're messed up in the head.

629
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 4: Jeremy.

630
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 10: You know, and you need love.

631
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: I asked Justin what does he hope to gain by

632
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: learning his father's story and telling his own.

633
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 7: I think it's more important to my family than anything else,

634
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 7: because not just everybody's been through a lot. You know,

635
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 7: it would just be nice for once in life a

636
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 7: positive story. You know, if if I could have one

637
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 7: positive story from a like a like a super bad situation,

638
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 7: like no one in their right mind with everything Jeremy

639
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 7: would do at one eighty like nobody. So what happens

640
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 7: when you see him? You would want to know his story, right,

641
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 7: You want to want to know what happened, what made

642
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 7: him change, and to find out it was his heart.

643
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 7: You know the hard work he put in, and you

644
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 7: know the support team he has behind him, and everything else,

645
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 7: it's just people gathering together and caring for one another.

646
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: One of the things I told Justin is what Jeremy

647
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 1: fears most. It's not a fear for his safety or

648
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: his health in prison, but a fear about what will

649
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: happen after he dies. The thought that haunts him most

650
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: is being buried in the prison cemetery. And it turns

651
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:18,319
Speaker 1: out you'd have to have somebody that claim you, claim

652
00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: your body after your death. I don't want him buried.

653
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 10: I don't care what state of mind he is or anything.

654
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 7: I don't want him buried there.

655
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: But he said he didn't think anybody in his immediate family,

656
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: in putting his mother and his aunts would claim him.

657
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 7: So he am I allowed to claim him. I think

658
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 7: he would be then I'll claim him on that. I'm

659
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 7: jumping right on that one, and if I can. Don't

660
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 7: want it buried over here. I want him buried close

661
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 7: to my other family. Just because someone does something bad

662
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 7: doesn't mean they're not a family.

663
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 9: You know.

664
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: He might not be the father, but he's still my dad.

665
00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 7: But he's going to be buried like a human being.

666
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: At least give him that for the fight he put in.

667
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 4: Said you were better with talking than writing.

668
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: Let's just do a quick thing here. I just talked

669
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: to him and I'll write it down afterwards and send it.

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00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 7: To him just like I act like I'm talking to him. Yeah, Okay,

671
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 7: all right there, Jeremy. It's justin your son. I had

672
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 7: Christmas and I owne.

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00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: Valley is a production of Lava for Good podcast in

674
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one.

675
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 7: I just got your letter that you wrote to me

676
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 7: from Gilbert today too, and it really sucks about not

677
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,680
Speaker 7: being able to visit yet. But we'll try to set

678
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 7: up a thing to go visit soon enough and it

679
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 7: will be a lot.

680
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Jason Flom, Jeff Kepler, and Kevin Wurdis.

681
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 7: But I did give permission to talk to you about

682
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 7: my daughter. That's going to be. Yeah, I'm kind of

683
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:05,840
Speaker 7: starting mown tree kind of thing now. And you know

684
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 7: they have a grandfather now to look up for, so

685
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 7: you got to make sure you stay in line for them,

686
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 7: keep your head.

687
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: Caro Cornhaber is our senior producer. Jackie Pauley and Hannah

688
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 1: bial are our producers.

689
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 2: What do you think?

690
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 3: What's your prediction for tomorrow?

691
00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 6: Jeremy Kansas City? All day, the history will be made.

692
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 7: Hey, dad, Sorry for the late response, but Gilbert did

693
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 7: really good and gave me your birthday letter rite on

694
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 7: my birthday. It really brightened up my day and everything.

695
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: I felt like a little.

696
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 9: Kid, you know.

697
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: Rit Spangler is our sound designer. Marianne mckuwne is our editor.

698
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: Fact checking by Dania Suleiman.

699
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 3: Sure, I got two more bikes, but I don't know

700
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,200
Speaker 3: if I'll ride them again or not. We'll see.

701
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,080
Speaker 6: It kind of takes your time, that's all. Yeah. Yeah,

702
00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 6: like putting tricycle wheels on her and just learning, you know.

703
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's a pretty good idea. All right, buddy,

704
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 3: You take care of you.

705
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: Jeff Clyburn is our head of Marketing and Operations, our

706
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: social media director is is Maati Guardrama.

707
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 7: And Gwinnevere was born.

708
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 12: She's so beautiful.

709
00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,840
Speaker 7: I'll eventually be able to send you.

710
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 1: Pictures of Our social media manager is Sarah Gibbons and

711
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: our art director is Andrew Nelson.

712
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 7: Everything's been going good. I really do care about your dad,

713
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 7: and I want to say happy birthday as well.

714
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 5: I hope you get this before your birthday, but happy birthday,

715
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 5: old man.

716
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 4: I love you justin all right.

717
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 6: Let Mary know I called you too, for she works.

718
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,640
Speaker 9: I will right now her.

719
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 8: I said, everything that is good okay, and I'm goost

720
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 8: sad her.

721
00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 6: I'm gonna send her a snapshot picture.

722
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: Additional research and production by Kelsey Decker. Additional sound recording

723
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: by James Johnson.

724
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 12: He said they just had dinner and it was coas law,

725
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 12: two pieces of bread and a rat patty. I said,

726
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 12: what's a rat patty? And he said it's a Hamburger

727
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:06,839
Speaker 12: patty that has no real bone.

728
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:11,240
Speaker 1: Valley is written and produced by me Gilbert King. Follow

729
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: us on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and threads at Lava for good.

730
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 7: Stay good and stay on the right track, all right.

731
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 3: I love you Dad.

732
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:21,640
Speaker 7: I don't know why I said bye.

733
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 2: That was like a letter.

734
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:26,719
Speaker 4: Then you beat your head