1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello, everyone, 4 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: I am an editor here at how stuff works dot Com. 6 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: Sitting across from me as always a senior writer, Jonathan Strickland. 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: The code is more what you'd call guidelines and actual rules, 8 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: Parley Poley. Um. That actually leads us directly into a 9 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: little Facebook feedback. That's a thing, well it could have. 10 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: It's not listener mail our Facebook. So I heard it 11 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: that way everymore. Yeah, I just made it up. So 12 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: Facebook feedback lots of fs and that. Uh. This listener 13 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: mail comes to us from home. Ecebook feedback comes to 14 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: us from someone whose name I can't pronounce because my 15 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: pronunciation for names and Indian languages is terrible. But I'm 16 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: going to give it a shot and he can write 17 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: to me on Facebook and tell me how wrong I 18 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: got it. On Tricks says Hey, I've got an awesome 19 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: podcast idea, the ethics of pirating media. You have already bought. Well, 20 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 1: if I'm not that clear, here's an example, you buy 21 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: a music CD and you travel somewhere. You had the 22 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: music from the CD on your computer, but you accidentally 23 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: deleted it. Is it right to download the music from 24 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: an illegal source? Maybe torrents? Downloading without purchasing is illegal anyway, 25 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 1: but people argue that this is ethically right. I'm one 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 1: of them too. You could read this as a listener 27 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: mail and you can mention my name too. I tried. UM. 28 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: So we're gonna talk about piracy ethics. You know, when 29 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: is it is it ever all right to download something 30 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: uh for free? You know, whether you've purchased it or 31 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: haven't purchased it, and sort of the issues that surround 32 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: this and make it more complicated than you might first imagine. 33 00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 1: So let's get started, shall we. Yes, Now it does 34 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: become more complicated as you start uh crossing international boundaries. 35 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: This is uh. If it was a piece of music 36 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,799 Speaker 1: recorded and save Britain, UH and you were in Germany 37 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: when you had your files deleted and you wanted to 38 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: download them, uh, it makes things even more complicated. Unfortunately, 39 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: well fortunately and unfortunately for the pirates. I suppose, UM, 40 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 1: there are treaties in between these different countries, including those 41 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:42,679 Speaker 1: but around the World Intellectual Property Organization or Weepoh wow, Yeah, 42 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 1: I I focused mainly on the United States because that's, 43 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: for one thing, is the easiest for me to get 44 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 1: information on in a language that I can read. Yes, 45 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,119 Speaker 1: that is our sphere of operation, of course, so it's 46 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: a little easier for us. But you know, on tricks, 47 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,839 Speaker 1: we do know from his frequent feedback on Facebook. Hey, 48 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: that's lots of alliteration there. Um does live in India, 49 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: so you know, he might have a different perspective than 50 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: the media. Right. But in the United States, copyright law 51 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: as it stands is already fairly complicated. Yes, okay, So 52 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: in general, a work created on or after January one, 53 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight has a copyright that will last through 54 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:33,239 Speaker 1: the duration of the author's life plus seventy years. Yes, 55 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: before January one, ninety eight is more complicated. Um. And 56 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: also you could, uh, from the ones from before then, 57 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: corporations and authors had the opportunity to extend copyright further 58 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 1: if they wanted to, which could not bring it up 59 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 1: to the same amount of time as if it were 60 00:03:55,320 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: created after nine. But it's it's complex. So, uh, what 61 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: copyright allows you to do? Is it it allows you 62 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: to dictate how how your your content can be purchased 63 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: and distributed. Uh. So let's say that I create an idea, 64 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: I've got it under copyright. What I choose to do 65 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: with that content, that content belongs to me, and I 66 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: can license it out to people as I see fit. Uh, 67 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: that's really a lot of the arguments I see kind 68 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: of ignore this whole licensing issue, which is to me 69 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,720 Speaker 1: right at the very heart of the problem. But UM, 70 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: go ahead, you're better to say something. Yeah, well, I 71 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: was just going to say, at least in the United States. UM, 72 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: let's say you're an author and you're writing a book. Well, 73 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: as soon as you finish it and you you've you've 74 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: you know, say, printed it out, it's in a fixed 75 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: form and you're done with it. Copyright already is protecting 76 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: that work in the United States. As soon as they 77 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,720 Speaker 1: exists in a fixed form, it is under copyright. You 78 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: are the copyright holder. Um. You do not have to 79 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: file paperwork for it, although for some protection it does 80 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: help you to do that. Um, but you've already got 81 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: it. It It starts right then and there. Now, say you 82 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: want to have your work published. You'd like to see 83 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: your name in print. You want to go on tour 84 00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: and do book signings. This is the dream that you've 85 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: always been wanting to pursue. Well, you're going to need 86 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: a publisher to help you with that. You could self 87 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: publish it, but you're still you know, unless you happen 88 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 1: to own a printing press, it's gonna be hard to distribute. Yeah, 89 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,720 Speaker 1: you're you're you're going to want some kind of publishing 90 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: help with it. So let's say, uh, let's let's say 91 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 1: you're really interested in having somebody like Random House publish 92 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: your work, and so you submit it and they're they're 93 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: gaga over the whole thing. They love it, they love 94 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: the idea. They want to print it. But you're going 95 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: to have to license the copyright to them in order 96 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: to do that, and you're going to sign a long 97 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: agreement that allows them to be the publisher to do that, 98 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: and so you're basically giving them access to or copyright 99 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 1: if you will. So at that point, um, making unauthorized 100 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: copies affects the company too, and not just you as 101 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: the author, right, And then we have to kind of 102 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: address something that's there's a lot of confusion around this 103 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 1: as well. The concept of fair use. Fair use definitely 104 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: has its place, but unfortunately or fortunately, depending on which 105 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: side of the argument you happen to be on at 106 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: any given time, it's not firmly defined. In general, fair 107 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: use allows a couple for a couple of different um 108 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: exceptions to the whole copyright issue. One is, if you 109 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: are using material for educational purposes and you are commenting 110 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,839 Speaker 1: on it, or you are um, you know, using it 111 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: to illustrate a point, you are allowed to use a 112 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 1: certain amount of information without it being considered a violation 113 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 1: of copyright. However, that certain amount is up for discussion. 114 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: There's no there's no clear definition. There's no like two 115 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: paragraphs is the limit and over to paragraphs is copyright 116 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: violation or is the utmost limit you can go to. 117 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: There's nothing set in stone. It ends up being a 118 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: case by case basis. Right, if you're going to use 119 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: a portion of someone else's work in your own and 120 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 1: the person who's copyright uh is in question, uh, you know, 121 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: feels that is being infringed upon, they take you to court. 122 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: It is ultimately going to be up to the judge 123 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: to decide, you know, how much is being used and 124 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: for what purpose? If it it relies on a couple 125 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: of things. It needs to be transformative. So if you've, 126 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: for example, weird al Yankovic takes songs that are already 127 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 1: um popular and will remake them into a parody. Often 128 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: puts it in a different key, and rewrites new lyrics 129 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: to it, and makes subtle changes to the song to 130 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: make it his own. But it's essentially a song that 131 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: is recognized old people. Parody is protected. Parody is protected, 132 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 1: but it is what he has done is transformed the 133 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,200 Speaker 1: original work and and put it under a parody. So 134 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 1: he's okay with that. Now, if you took an entire 135 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: poet's poem and used it in your work and claimed 136 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: it was your own, then you're probably gonna get in trouble, 137 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: right Or if you if you end up writing a 138 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,800 Speaker 1: an essay, let's say that makes the exact same point 139 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: as the essay that you are using to illustrate your point, 140 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: there might be an argument there that that's just plagiarism 141 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: and copyright violation, that you're not you're not using this 142 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: in a new way of or or really using it 143 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: to educate or illustrate. You're just borrowing someone else's stuff, 144 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: and uh, and using it as part of your own material. Um, 145 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 1: but you can also make copies of things that you 146 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: purchase intellectual property. Essentially, you can make copies of I 147 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: P for archival purposes. Yes, Now that means that, let's 148 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: say that you bought this really came about, especially back 149 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: with during the whole vinyl album and cassette era, and 150 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: say that you would buy a vinyl album. Kids, if 151 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 1: you don't know what that is, actually probably do because 152 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: they're kind of coming back with the whole DJ stuff. 153 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: But that in our our tech stuff audience is probably 154 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: into that anyway. Yeah, but but you might want to 155 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: make a copy of that because this is physical medium, 156 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: and media can sustain damage and wear and tear over time, 157 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: and you still want to be able to listen to 158 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:36,359 Speaker 1: that content after that media has died out or perhaps 159 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,119 Speaker 1: perhaps even it gets to a point where the equipment 160 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: you have that can play that media no longer works, right, 161 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: So you want to be able to create an archival copy. Now, 162 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: this is a copy for your own personal use. It's 163 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: something that you're keeping so that you can again maintain uh, 164 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: the ability to access that material that the license that 165 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: you have essentially purchased to that material for a while 166 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: that in the United States that became really pretty much 167 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: impossible to do with legally, right because companies were putting 168 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: DRM on top of UH of their physical media like 169 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 1: let's say c d s or DVDs, and in order 170 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: to be able to create a copy, you had to 171 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: break the d r M, right, But breaking the DRM 172 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,560 Speaker 1: was illegal, So even though it wasn't illegal to make 173 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: the copy, it was illegal to break the protection that 174 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: prevents you from making a copy. So in effect, it 175 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: became illegal for you to make a copy because there's 176 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:43,960 Speaker 1: no legal way to get around it. Yeah, now it's 177 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: not going to come as any big shock to any 178 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 1: of our listeners that the world of computer technology has 179 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: completely changed, uh the need for copyright protection in the 180 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 1: eyes of people who own copyright. Now, I mean, you 181 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: had a six page book, you know, in eighty two. 182 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: The only way anybody was going to make a copy 183 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,079 Speaker 1: of that was my hand and that right then and 184 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: there is going to be a deterrent to most people 185 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 1: to make another copy of the book now. I mean, 186 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: obviously the the printer is going to have the printing 187 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: press and be able to make more copies of it, 188 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: and you could do that Um, but it's not like 189 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: everybody on the street is going to be able to 190 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,439 Speaker 1: do that. Now that everyone has a computer and it's 191 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: easy to make copies of let's say, for for the 192 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: purposes of this particular part of the conversation, unprotected anything 193 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 1: that's unprotected like electronic books, digital music files, digital video files. 194 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: I mean, if there were no protection at all, Uh, 195 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: it would be easy to you know, rip new copies 196 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: of that and give them to everybody you knew, distribute 197 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: them on the internet freely and amount of seconds. In fact, 198 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: that happens all the time. Sure, sure, So DRM is 199 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:58,640 Speaker 1: in is digital rights management is an attempt on the 200 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: part of the copyright owners and the publishers of that 201 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: content who have a stake in it too, now that 202 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: they have a license to to produce and distribute the content. Um, 203 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: it is an attempt for them to protect it and 204 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: to get people to actually fork over the money for it. Um. 205 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: The thing is they have also pushed government in general 206 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: and multiple countries to help them do that by lobbying 207 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: intensely for very thorough and someone to just say, you know, 208 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 1: draconian measures that help them protect their d r M 209 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: and leave it in place. Which is what the which 210 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: is what's often used in conjunction with the Digital Millennium 211 00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: Copyright Act here in the United States. Yeah, d m 212 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: c A. You've probably heard that term before, especially if 213 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: you live in the United States. That's that's what I 214 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: was talking about with the d m c A, where 215 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: it made it a criminal act to try and either 216 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: bypass DRM on a DRM product or to create software 217 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: or some other tool that would allow you to bypass DRM. 218 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: So if you created a tool that would break d 219 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: r M and UH, and even if you had never 220 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 1: done it yourself, like if you never created a file, 221 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: just creating that tool was illegal under d m c A. Yes. Now, 222 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: of course, the entertainment industry in the United States is 223 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: very very big and very very powerful. UM. The d 224 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: m c A was signed into UH into law on 225 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: enter by President Bill Clinton UM, and it did bring 226 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: the United States into compliance with two different w I 227 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 1: p O treatise UM, which UH basically is the w 228 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: y p O Copyright Treaty and then w I p 229 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: O Performances and Phonograms Treaty. Now, everybody who's all the 230 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: countries that are are on board with these treaties UM 231 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: have an obligation to protect copyright from on things from 232 00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: other countries just as much as they would anything that 233 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 1: was copyrighted in their own country. So um, if somebody 234 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: in Russia wanted to uh copy and distribute Madonna's latest album, um, 235 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: and Russia has signed onto the w I p O treaty, 236 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: they are at the government is legally obligated to protect 237 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: it as though it was somebody a Russian artist who 238 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: had also recorded and released an album in its own country. 239 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: Right now, let's get even more complicated with this whole 240 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: digital media. So okay, so we've already established the idea 241 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: that creating digital copies from physical media can be uh well, 242 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: depending on the exceptions. Also because d m c A 243 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: does have some exceptions that that tend to get in 244 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: introduced every three years or so. But um, but creating 245 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 1: digital copies of physical media can be difficult and in 246 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:52,520 Speaker 1: some cases illegal because you have to violate the DRM. 247 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: Another reason why this is a complicated issue is that 248 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: it's hard to wrap your mind around stealing a digital 249 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: five because really what you're doing is you're creating another 250 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: instance of that file. Yeah, you're not taking anything from someone. 251 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 1: For example, if I own an album that Chris wants, 252 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: so we're gonna call it, um let's see the Ramones 253 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: Greatest hits. Let's say I've got the Ramones Grace Hits 254 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,280 Speaker 1: on vinyl and Chris is thinking, you know, I'd really 255 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: like to listen to Blitz Creek Pop. And Jonathan's not looking. 256 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take that album and he takes the album 257 00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: out of my house. Well, I no longer can listen 258 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: to the Ramones Grace Hits because my copy has been 259 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: a student. But let's say that I have the album 260 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,680 Speaker 1: in digital file format on my computer and Chris says, 261 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: you know, I want to listen to Blitz Creek Pop. 262 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna copy that file off Jonathan's computer and put 263 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: it on my computer. Well, I can still listen to 264 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: my copy of Blitz Creek Bop. As far as I 265 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: can tell from my perspective, nothing bad has happened because 266 00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: everything I have is still where it should be. Ut, 267 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: that's a case of theft. It's just not a case 268 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: of theft that is analogous necessarily just stealing physical goods. 269 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: And this, I think is where are a lot of 270 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: the arguments center around this concept, the idea that if 271 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: you're not if you're not really bereft of something, if 272 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: if the object is not has not left your possession, 273 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: how can you call it stealing? Well, this is where 274 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: we get to the concept that when you purchase i P, 275 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: you're not really purchasing the i P. You're you're licensing it, right, 276 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: Like if I buy a book from Chris, Like Chris 277 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: has written a book and he's published the book, and 278 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: I buy it from him, I know I don't own 279 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: Chris's work, that that ownership does not transfer to me, 280 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: that that intellectual property doesn't transfer to me, just my 281 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: access to it. That's a license to access that i P. 282 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,600 Speaker 1: And if you think of it in terms of licenses, 283 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 1: then these questions start to get a little easier to understand. Now, 284 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,640 Speaker 1: the question we were specifically asked was about getting an 285 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 1: the legal copy of something that you already own legally 286 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,240 Speaker 1: and where does that fall ethically? And I guess that 287 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: really depends upon whom you ask. Yeah, yeah, I mean 288 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 1: speaking speaking as a recording artist myself. Um, you know, 289 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: long time listeners will recall that I am I've been 290 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: in several bands and have done recordings with with a 291 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: few as well. Um, I sort of sympathized with the 292 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: big name artists who have uh basically hollered about the 293 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: about people stealing their music because you know, for them 294 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: that's how they make their living. Um, so basically people 295 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 1: are taking away a potential source of revenue. Now it 296 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: doesn't you know, you could argue, you could make the argument, Hey, 297 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: I know these guys are on name of major label here, 298 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: they're only getting a buck for every CD and I'm 299 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: basically on stealing a dollar from their coffers of money 300 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: that they're making touring. It's no big deal. But to them, 301 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: you know, if suddenly thousands of people are doing that, 302 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: then there's a possibility that they might have to go 303 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 1: get a day job. And I mean seriously, but there's 304 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: also there's a getting to make that. To make it 305 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: more complicated, of course, this in this particular situation, we're 306 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: talking about someone who has purchased that that product legally, 307 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 1: has converted it into digital media, which again is legal, yes, 308 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,960 Speaker 1: but then loses the digital copy and does not immediately 309 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: have access to the physical copy. Is it wrong to 310 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: download those files again for free? I would say that 311 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: here's the problem that I have with this. The problem 312 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: is that by downloading those files for free, you are 313 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: participating in piracy. From from your perspective as the consumer, 314 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 1: it's not a huge deal, right, You're getting access to 315 00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: files that you originally had access to in the first place. 316 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: So for you, it just seems like it's it's like 317 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 1: nothing's really changed. But what you're doing is you're actually 318 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,680 Speaker 1: trafficking with someone who is distributing these files for free, 319 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: and that means that they have violated copyright. They don't 320 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: have the right to distribute that content. They are doing 321 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: something that's wrong, and you are a part of that. 322 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: So I would say that ethically, on your end, it 323 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: doesn't seem like a big deal, but in a bigger 324 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:29,399 Speaker 1: picture perspective, it's the wrong thing to do. I think 325 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: legally it's more black and white. Well legally it's black 326 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,920 Speaker 1: and white, but ethically and legally are two totally different concepts. Well, no, 327 00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: that's That's what I wanted to stress, is that there 328 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: there is a clear division there. You know, legally, yes, 329 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: there's really no question according to these these laws that 330 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: have been set up in in so many countries and 331 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: the treaties that they have made to protect them, Yes, 332 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 1: that is technically theft. Um or at least technically piracy. 333 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,520 Speaker 1: But ethnically, you know, from the user standpoint, it's a 334 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 1: lot murk here. From the artist's standpoint or the author standpoint, 335 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: it's like, hey, you know, you bought a copy of 336 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: my book. I can't help it if you left it 337 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,719 Speaker 1: on the train. You know, that doesn't give you an 338 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: excuse to go to the the library, you know, photocopy the 339 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: entire thing and make yourself another copy for free. That's 340 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: not that's not my fault, right. But from the user's point, 341 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: you know, I've already paid my twelve right, that's a 342 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: that's a very good point. I'm glad you paid that 343 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: way because the example I used when Chris and I 344 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,560 Speaker 1: were just kind of chatting about this casually before the 345 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: podcast was I said, well what if what if you 346 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,400 Speaker 1: um uh see how did I words? Le'll say, you 347 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: you buy a book, okay, and then the book gets 348 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 1: damaged beyond repair, or you lose it or whatever. At 349 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: some point you no longer have access to that book, 350 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 1: but you purchased it. That does not give you the 351 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 1: right to go out and steal another copy of that book. 352 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: But then you have the argument of hey, you're talking 353 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: about physical media, here, by stealing a physical object, you 354 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: have didn't eyed the the publisher or bookseller or whomever, 355 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: the right to sell that. Whereas when you're talking about 356 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: digital again, you're making a copy, you're not stealing a 357 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 1: physical object. But it's again, if you go back to 358 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 1: the license argument, as you did, because you were talking 359 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: about going to the library and copying a book, that's 360 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,959 Speaker 1: still not legal. And is it ethical or not? Well, 361 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: it depends on upon whom you ask again, Like like 362 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: I said, they are like Randy Cohen, who writes for 363 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: the New York Times magazine. Randy Cohen writes about ethical issues, 364 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: and he was specifically asked about a case where someone 365 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: had bought a hardback copy of a novel and she 366 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: wanted to be able to read an electronic copy of 367 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: that novel, but there was no e book available for purchase. 368 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: So what she was wondering was is it wrong to 369 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: download a pirated electronic copy of that book having already 370 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: purchased the book through legal means, and there's no there's 371 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: no legal recourse to get an electronic copy. Mr Cohen 372 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: said that he thought ethically that was all right. Yeah, 373 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:19,560 Speaker 1: that blew my mind too. I I'm not so quick 374 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: to jump on that. Um. Here, here's the thing. If 375 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: you went and you purchased a book, and you brought 376 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: it home and scanned every single page and created a 377 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 1: digital copy yourself, I have no problem with that because 378 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 1: I think of that as fair use. You're doing that 379 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 1: for archival purposes, or you're doing it you're your your 380 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: space shifting the work correct like you're you're shifting it 381 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: from a physical medium to a digital medium. UM, I 382 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 1: have no issue with any of that. What I have 383 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 1: a problem with is the fact that by going to 384 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 1: a source where they are distributing this, you have taken 385 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: part of an illegal practice, and that means you're supporting 386 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: an illegal practice. Now, now from your perspective, you're doing 387 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 1: it very ethically because you've already purchased that content. It's 388 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: not like you are getting around purchasing the content again 389 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: because again there's no legal recourse for you to get 390 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,000 Speaker 1: that e book ethically for you, I guess I don't 391 00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,600 Speaker 1: have an issue with it. But again, big picture, you're 392 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: supporting a larger piracy effort that violates the distribution portion 393 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:31,679 Speaker 1: of copyright. So while while I would say that, I 394 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 1: would feel as on my own end that I would have. 395 00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:37,000 Speaker 1: You know, I don't have a big problem with doing this. 396 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:40,800 Speaker 1: If I thought about my actions beyond just the fact 397 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: that this is benefiting me to this is supporting an 398 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: entire illegal industry, then that's where the problems start coming 399 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: in for me Ethically. It's it's it's a a tough question. Um, 400 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: I can tell you. Let me be perfectly honest here. 401 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,320 Speaker 1: I'll just to lay it out on the table. There 402 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,920 Speaker 1: was a particular television series that came out in the UK. Yes, Um, 403 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: several years ago. He's trying not to smile because we 404 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: just talked about this in a completely unrelated light the 405 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: other day. So it's really funny. So this particular television 406 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:17,880 Speaker 1: series came out in the UK, and there was no 407 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: legal way to get access to a US version of 408 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: this UK television show. The only thing I could have 409 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 1: done is I could have purchased the UK version of 410 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: the show and then bought a UK or region free 411 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: DVD player so that I could watch the show. But 412 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: other than that, there was no way for me to 413 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 1: do it. The only thing that I could do if 414 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:50,160 Speaker 1: I wanted to watch the show was to download it illegally. Subsequently, 415 00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 1: the show became available in the United States and immediately 416 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,719 Speaker 1: went out and purchased a copy. Because I did download 417 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: it illegally, I left that part out. I illegally downloaded 418 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: a television show that was not legally available in the 419 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 1: United States. Uh. And I didn't feel badly about it 420 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: because I was like, I would pay for this if 421 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: there were a way for me to pay for it, 422 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: and I will pay for it if there ever is 423 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,959 Speaker 1: a way, and I did. Doesn't justify my action. Still 424 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: that I don't think my actions are really justifiable, because ultimately, 425 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: the way I acted was that I said, I want 426 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: access to this content, and I'm going to get it. 427 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,399 Speaker 1: But there is nothing in the universe that guarantees you 428 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: access to any content. You do not have the right 429 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: to access content just because it exists. This is where 430 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: Jonathan goes on a rant, because I mean, I am 431 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,240 Speaker 1: I have fallen guilt guilty of this in the example 432 00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 1: I used as a perfect example. By the way, in 433 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: case you're wondering, the show was spaced so it was 434 00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,119 Speaker 1: a different show. Yeah, but I do remember, dude, you 435 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: don't need to tell them I've done it more than once. No, 436 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: that's not the one you were talking about I think 437 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: I was taked about Battle Royal, wasn't I? Yeah, okay, 438 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,719 Speaker 1: Battle Royal, which I subsequently ended up deleting eventually. But 439 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: that was another example early on. Uh No, Space was 440 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: what I was thinking of this the UK show I 441 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 1: was thinking. You meant a different show that we were 442 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: talking about was someone had uploaded to YouTube. You mean 443 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: the American pilot for the I T crowd And you 444 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: want me to just keep on naming things and dig 445 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: a hole even deeper. But you didn't download anything illegally, 446 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,320 Speaker 1: know that one I just watched somebody uploaded Italy. So 447 00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:25,239 Speaker 1: at any rate, Getting back to the Space discussion, as 448 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: soon as it became available legally, I went out and 449 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: purchased a copy, and I ended up deleting my um my, 450 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: the copies I had digitally because it didn't need them anymore, 451 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,439 Speaker 1: like the DVD copy was superior to the digital format 452 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 1: that I had. Um But yes, you don't. You are 453 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: not entitled to content just because it exists. Let's say 454 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: that a cool game comes out and it's more expensive 455 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: than you are able to justify in your budget. You 456 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: have no right to that content. It's not like you know, 457 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: just because it's more expensive than you think it's worth, 458 00:26:57,720 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: that you should go out and steal it. That's wrong. 459 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: That's that is, that is the very definition of wrong. 460 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: The way you do this, the way you go about 461 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: this is that if you think content is too expensive 462 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: for what it is worth, you do not buy the content, 463 00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: and if enough people do not buy the content, the 464 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: content provider will have to change the way things are 465 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: or the content provider goes out of business. You do 466 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: not say, hey, that game is sixty dollars, but I 467 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: think it's only worth ten dollars, so I'm gonna steal 468 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 1: it for free. That does not work. That is the 469 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: wrong way to do it. That is stealing. I I 470 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: feel compelled to point out that that I feel that yes, 471 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 1: it is simply put, information does want to be free, 472 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: and that was That's part of the whole thing about 473 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,199 Speaker 1: copyright protection is that, um, there is some provision for 474 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 1: fair use, and there's also the expiration of copyright law. 475 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: That's been the big um. The big thing about copyright 476 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 1: law extensions that have come up, especially with the Sonny 477 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: Bone Know extension a few years ago, was the Mickey 478 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 1: Mouse Protection extension. Is what some people derisively referred to 479 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: that as well. Yes, because of course Disney UH is 480 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: very serious about protecting characters such as Mickey Mouse. Makes 481 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: perfect sense from a business perspective, from a creative perspective, 482 00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: for the people who would like to build upon things 483 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 1: that have already come before, which is, by the way, 484 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: the history of human development. UM, it's antithetical, it's it's 485 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: it's harmful to keep extending copyright. But for the people 486 00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: and the corporations, who, as we know in the United 487 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: States are treated as people, UH, it makes perfect business 488 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 1: sense to keep extending it as long as as possible 489 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: in order to ensure that you've got that that exclusivity. 490 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:53,920 Speaker 1: And I assumed that probably in the next fifty two 491 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: seventy five years there's going to be another attempt to 492 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: lobby for from Disney or someone else who had UH 493 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: characters that are still very viable in the marketplace that 494 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: have been around for a very long time. They're they're 495 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: going to keep lobbying government to to UH extend that. 496 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: But the thing is, it's it's designed to expire specifically 497 00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:17,680 Speaker 1: for the purposes of building upon that and and UH 498 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: and making changes to you can you could say things 499 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: about pride and prejudice and zombies um, which is completely 500 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,160 Speaker 1: legal because um, you know, the person the work itself 501 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 1: is in the public domain at this point. And I 502 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 1: should point out that the w I p O treaties 503 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 1: have a provision for that things that are in the 504 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 1: public domain or in the public domain, no matter where 505 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 1: they are. So if it's something that, say in Britain 506 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: isn't in the public domain, but or is in the 507 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: public domain, but it wouldn't be in the United States, 508 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: you know, in the country it's published and it's in 509 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: public domain, then it then it counts. So it's um. 510 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: So that's sort of a thorny thing. And and you know, 511 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: don't get the idea that we're uh completely on the 512 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: side of of all protecting information. But the thing is, 513 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: if it's still under copyright, uh, you know, it's still 514 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: protected and you have to abide by the law. You're 515 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: supposed to abide by the law. And that's you know, 516 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:12,959 Speaker 1: where the line is to go on to go on record. 517 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: As far as my opinion goes with the whole copyright thing, 518 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 1: I think copyright law is really messed up. And I 519 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: think that a lot of the motivations that come from 520 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: the pirates quote are at least semi legitimate. Um that 521 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: that a lot of the problems come out of the 522 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:36,680 Speaker 1: fact that that the UH copyright practices and particularly DRM 523 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 1: practices are so over the top and ridiculous that it 524 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: promotes an a a environment of piracy. So for example, 525 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: if you video games are a great example, right, like 526 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: you get video games that have really heavy DRM on it. 527 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes that makes it difficult to play the game. Legitimately, yes, 528 00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: I think that's a big part of why Spoor ended 529 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,720 Speaker 1: up tanking and badly as it did, was because the 530 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: initial complaints about the the fair play Wait now that's 531 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: Apple's sorry, I can't remember the name of it. Anyway, 532 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: the the DRM they had included it Electronic Arts UM 533 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: was so you know, it actually hampered playing the game. 534 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: I had trouble playing it on my Mac because of 535 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 1: the DRM, And as soon as they removed that sent 536 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,480 Speaker 1: me the download and it updated, it was fine to 537 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: play after that. But you know, by that point, the 538 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: reviews that come out, um, you know, it's still I 539 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,959 Speaker 1: look the other day, it's still something like two stars 540 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,200 Speaker 1: on Amazon, and most of the negative comments are over 541 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: the DRM, which has been removed years ago. Chris I 542 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: got a question for you. Okay, all right. Let's say 543 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 1: that you have purchased a game such as Spore. Okay, okay, uh, 544 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: and the DRM has made the game virtually unplayable. Right, 545 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: but you have the option of illegally downloading a version 546 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: of that game that has the DRM broken, which would 547 00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: make the game perfectly playable on your system. Right, So 548 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,560 Speaker 1: you've already bought the game. I paid for it, You 549 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: paid for it. Uh. Would you download the illegal copy? No? 550 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,080 Speaker 1: I would not. All right? Now, do you think it's 551 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 1: ethically wrong for someone to get the illegal copy knowing 552 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: that they like, let's say, they don't even bother to 553 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,080 Speaker 1: take the Spore version out of their box. They're not 554 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: going to give it away. The boxes just sitting there 555 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: in the closet, So they're they're going to keep a 556 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: copy if the if the Feds show up in No, 557 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: I see, I bought a copy of this thing. It's 558 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: in my closet, exactly. You still find do you still 559 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,240 Speaker 1: find that ethically troubling? Yeah? I do find it ethically troubling. 560 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: So this is one of those gray areas that's hard 561 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: for me to It's hard for me. I tend to 562 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: feel sympathy for the pirates because on the one hand, 563 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: I think, hey, I've purchased something. They've promised me a 564 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 1: particular experience, and I am I am not a I 565 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 1: followed all the rules, I've done everything they've asked of me, 566 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: and the experience is not what they said because they've 567 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: put so much protection on this that I can't run it. 568 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: Another good example is let's say you get a game 569 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: like the ones Ubisoft put out where the only way 570 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:07,760 Speaker 1: you could play it is if you could connect to 571 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 1: their servers, and that was how they put on DRM. 572 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: If you're not familiar with the story, what Ubisoft did 573 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 1: was for a couple of the games they put out, 574 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: you would have to have a persistent Internet connection to 575 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 1: the Ubisoft servers to confirm that you had a legitimate 576 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,720 Speaker 1: copy of the game. And if you lost Internet connection 577 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,920 Speaker 1: during any point of playing this game, and these were 578 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: single person games that were not multiplayer games, you don't 579 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 1: You aren't using the network for anything like that, You're 580 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: just using it to verify the copy of the game. 581 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: But if you lost the Internet connection, you would no 582 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,360 Speaker 1: longer be able to play the game until your Internet 583 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: connection was restored. For a single player game, now again, 584 00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 1: pirates were breaking the codes on this and then offering 585 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: up the game for free, essentially saying that if you 586 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 1: purchase this game and you want to play it, then 587 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: you should go ahead and get this version of the 588 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:00,920 Speaker 1: game because you don't have to worry about your Internet connection. Um. 589 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: I can kind of see their argument because the DRM 590 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: has gone so far as to make the product unusable. 591 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,640 Speaker 1: But at the same time, you are supporting this this 592 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: pirate piracy environment, so it's really an honor system thing 593 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 1: in a way. You're saying, hey, you know, I want 594 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: to support this company, I want this this I've paid 595 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 1: for this this content, I just want to have access 596 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: to it now. It's a complicated issue, you know. That's 597 00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 1: that one's not very easy. The same thing with like 598 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: a lot of the music services that came out, where 599 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: the DRM was tied to servers and then the servers 600 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: were going offline, and the music service services were saying, hey, 601 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:44,200 Speaker 1: you know all those songs you bought from us, Yeah, 602 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 1: you might want to burn those two CD like now, 603 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: because we're gonna turn the servers off in a month 604 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: and you won't be able to play those files anymore. Yes, yes, 605 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 1: more than one name, big name did that. Yeah, and 606 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,479 Speaker 1: in these cases, like you could argue, well, you've only 607 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,279 Speaker 1: purchased a license to listen to that music from so 608 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: and so, But when you purchased the license, it was 609 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,120 Speaker 1: understood to be in perpetuity, right, there was no time 610 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,400 Speaker 1: limit on that, Like you can listen to this song 611 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 1: until January seventeen, two thousand and eight. That that wasn't 612 00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 1: in the agreement. Yeah. Now see the thing the thing 613 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,719 Speaker 1: about that this is if you've bought a copy of 614 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: it and you find it's unplayable speaking of games, still um, 615 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: and you've gone out and downloaded a pirate copy the 616 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,439 Speaker 1: company still even though you've purchased a copy legally. The 617 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,800 Speaker 1: thing that bothers me to other than the ethics standpoint, 618 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: is the company doesn't know what's going on. They have 619 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: the company has no idea what that that you have 620 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: encountered this trouble with the d r M, that you're 621 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,839 Speaker 1: upset about it, that you're downloading an illegal copy of it, 622 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,319 Speaker 1: and you know, I think it's important to one of 623 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: the things is I'm not saying that piracy is good. 624 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: I ethically still have a trouble pirating and copy of 625 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,359 Speaker 1: that game, but you know it would be. It would 626 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: have been good to have known that up for and 627 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: not spend your money with them, because then more people 628 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: spend money on it intending you know. Now, say you 629 00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: know that it's going on, your friends said, oh, this 630 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: is a great game, but it's unplayable with this DRM. 631 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: If you go out and buy a copy of this 632 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,759 Speaker 1: and then pirate the game, you paid for it and 633 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: you're still playing it, and then you're still supporting the 634 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: company applying that DRM the game. What you're saying is 635 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: that you are not letting the market correct itself because 636 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: you are participating in this kind of charade. Everything is cool, 637 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, I can totally see that. Yeah, yeah, it 638 00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: is a weird thing. Um. Like I said before, if 639 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: you want content and they have a certain asking price 640 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: for it and you can't or won't meet that asking price, 641 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 1: then you go without that content. If you want content 642 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:50,759 Speaker 1: and you're willing to pay what they're asking for it, 643 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,279 Speaker 1: there's usually no problem till you encounter this DRM issue. Um. 644 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,479 Speaker 1: And if you encounter the DRM issue, then that's where 645 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 1: things got gray for me. And it was a little 646 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,799 Speaker 1: it was still a little darker for you than it 647 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: was for me. Um, But I mean here's another. One 648 00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 1: other example, or one other point I want to throw 649 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: out is that part of the justification for piracy comes 650 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 1: from some disingenuous statements that various content providers and organizations 651 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: have made regarding how much money they lose as a 652 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:30,400 Speaker 1: result of piracy. So they're not helping themselves, right that 653 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: You've got the pirates on one side and these organizations 654 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,279 Speaker 1: on the other, and you have organizations saying, hey, we're 655 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 1: losing you know, X billion dollar amount per year due 656 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:45,440 Speaker 1: to piracy. Well, the Government Accountability Office filed a report 657 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 1: in t that's the United States Government Accountabilities Yes, the 658 00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 1: US Government Accountability Office. The report was Intellectual Property Observations 659 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: on Efforts to quantify the economic effects of counterfeit and 660 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: pirated Goods. This one beyond just did total media. This 661 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: was all sorts of counterfeit goods. Right. Well, in this case, 662 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: they said that it was impractical, too impossible to figure 663 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,360 Speaker 1: out how much money was lost because you can't quantify 664 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 1: factors like, uh, how much, Uh you know, how how 665 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: many of the people who stole something would have purchased it? Otherwise, Yeah, 666 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: there's really no way to know unless you do a 667 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,359 Speaker 1: survey with them and we get down to piracy. People 668 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 1: aren't again, right, honest. Yeah, So if you can't if 669 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: you if there's no way of knowing how many people 670 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,520 Speaker 1: would have bought it if they hadn't stolen it, it's 671 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,600 Speaker 1: hard to say what the actual economic impact is. Now 672 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: we know that there is an economic impact if nothing else. 673 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: There's an economic impact in the sense that studios and 674 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: companies are pouring money into finding ways to prevent piracy. 675 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: So there's an economic impact, right. It's not direct. It's 676 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 1: not saying that, oh, we lost twelve bucks because you 677 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:59,200 Speaker 1: downloaded that album illegally. It's saying, hey, we lost x 678 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: amount of money because that's how much we had to 679 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: pour into trying to prevent people from downloading stuff illegally. 680 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: So it's a complicated issue. Um. Ultimately, I would say 681 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: don't pirate stuff, like don't if it don't illegally download things. 682 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's you again, if you if you bought 683 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: something in one medium and you converted to digital and 684 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 1: then you lose the digital copy, you still have the 685 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,959 Speaker 1: physical medium even though it's not at hand. You wait 686 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: until you get your hands on that physical medium again, 687 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,359 Speaker 1: because that then you're following the rules of fair use. 688 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,959 Speaker 1: But just going out and getting something because you bought 689 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 1: it once before. Is that's a slippery slope, And really 690 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't. It doesn't take much longer before you get 691 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,720 Speaker 1: to the point where you're saying, hey, you know, I 692 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: bought books one through ten of the series and book 693 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: eleven is out, and um, you know it's it's already 694 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,520 Speaker 1: out of print, and I would have bought it, so 695 00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,480 Speaker 1: I'm just going to download it. That's you know again, 696 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,959 Speaker 1: that's it's leading you down a pathway that is more 697 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,880 Speaker 1: difficult to justify. Yeah, and I don't just as a 698 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: note that I thought of as sidebar, um, there's another 699 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: reason why you might not want to be running around 700 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,840 Speaker 1: downloading a lot of torrents if you don't have to. Well, 701 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: of course, torrenting is not in and of itself illegal. 702 00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 1: It is the method of sharing files. But if you 703 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:26,359 Speaker 1: are downloading illegal files, especially if you don't know who 704 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,399 Speaker 1: you're downloading them from, there's a possibility there's a security issue. 705 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,560 Speaker 1: There's a possibility that you're going to download something very 706 00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:36,560 Speaker 1: nasty because uh, people who like to start bought nets 707 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,320 Speaker 1: like to put malware on servers like that and disguise 708 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,200 Speaker 1: it as other files. Yeah, An unnamed friend of mine 709 00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:48,560 Speaker 1: recently posted something on Facebook where this unnamed friend said, 710 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,080 Speaker 1: I've found a virus on my computer. It's something called 711 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: a root kit? How bad is that? And did not 712 00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:00,960 Speaker 1: like my answer of that is very very bad. That's 713 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 1: about as bad as it gets. Really, yeah, kind yeah, 714 00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 1: giving you back to our access to your computer, that's that's. 715 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:12,840 Speaker 1: I can't think of something that's worse than that. Well, 716 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: I mean it's it's obviously the laws are different no 717 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 1: matter where you go. I mean, they're they're all going 718 00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,399 Speaker 1: to be similar in some ways in different than others. 719 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,280 Speaker 1: So I mean it's it's up to your local laws 720 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:25,840 Speaker 1: depending on on some of these questions about whether or 721 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 1: not it's it's ethical legal to do that. And you know, 722 00:41:29,080 --> 00:41:31,680 Speaker 1: ethically this is an issue with which we're all going 723 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,520 Speaker 1: to have to come to grips. But um, you know, 724 00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,759 Speaker 1: in general, I think Jonathan's right. If it's if there's 725 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 1: a question of whether or not it could be illegal, 726 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: then you you shouldn't do it. Yeah, uh yeah. And 727 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: that might mean that, you know, you campaign to have 728 00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,400 Speaker 1: laws changed, and that I'm fully in support of that. 729 00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 1: I think I think that's the way to go. It's 730 00:41:53,520 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 1: It's much better than going all Batman and saying I'm 731 00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: above the law, because that that's a losing game. It 732 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,880 Speaker 1: is this for everyone ultimately, because if you get caught, 733 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: then you have to face these incredibly ridiculous finds that 734 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:10,880 Speaker 1: that organizations like the r I Double A and the 735 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,640 Speaker 1: MP Double A demand be placed on people who violate 736 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: the copyright laws. But you also hurt everybody else in 737 00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,240 Speaker 1: the sense that these companies continue to try and find 738 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: ways to prevent piracy that ultimately hurt honest consumers the most. Yeah. Yeah, 739 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: but it sounds it sounds like entricks is you know, 740 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: a legal consumer. He's already purchased the music in the 741 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,000 Speaker 1: first place, so he wants to do the right thing. Um, 742 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: and I think most people do that. The producers want 743 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: to produce stuff that people will buy, the people want 744 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: to fork over their money for it. It's just that 745 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,560 Speaker 1: there has to be a level of trust between them 746 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: for the for the transaction to work out. Okay, and 747 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: then d r M and copyright law, you know, just 748 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: complicates that matter of trust. Agreed, Yes, yes, neither side 749 00:42:58,719 --> 00:43:03,359 Speaker 1: is wholly without blame. So with that being said, please 750 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 1: don't steal this. Actually this podcast is freely available, so 751 00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:09,239 Speaker 1: go ahead and distribute it all you like and tell 752 00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:11,600 Speaker 1: all your friends to listen to it. And if you 753 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 1: have any comments or questions you can listen. Know on 754 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 1: Facebook and Twitter are handled. There is tech Stuff hs W, 755 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,200 Speaker 1: or you can email us. Our email address is tech 756 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: stuff at how stuff works dot com and Chris and 757 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: I will talk to you again about something else I'm 758 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:36,319 Speaker 1: sure that will be ethically disturbing really soon. If you're 759 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: a tech stuff and be sure to check us out 760 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,960 Speaker 1: on Twitter text Stuff hs wsr handle and you can 761 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: also find us on Facebook at Facebook dot com slash 762 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,080 Speaker 1: tech Stuff h s W for more on this and 763 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics because at how stuff works dot com. 764 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,120 Speaker 1: And be sure to check out the new tech stuff 765 00:43:54,160 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: blog now on the how Stuff Works homepage. Brought to 766 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,680 Speaker 1: you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camry. It's ready, 767 00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: are you