1 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: Dear let you know USA listener. 2 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,040 Speaker 2: Before we start, you should know that if you want 3 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 2: to listen to this episode, add free just joins and 4 00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: you can join for as little as seven dollars a month. 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 2: Joining also gets you behind the scenes access and yes, 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: some cheesemake. So click the link in the episode description 7 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: and after you do that, then click play. 8 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: Let's go to the show. Dear listener. 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: You know, I meet a lot of people, but there 10 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 2: are some people who I need who stick out, some 11 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: people who I know are going to have a big 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: impact on American history. Yeah, I mean American history. One 13 00:00:55,160 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: of those people is Christina Jimenez. She has been regarded 14 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 2: as one of the most important immigration activists over the 15 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 2: last couple of decades, and I've been wanting to talk. 16 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: To her for several months. 17 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 2: Gatristina Himenez is the co founder of United We Dream, 18 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 2: which is the largest immigrant youth led movement in the country. 19 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 2: She grew up undocumented in Queens, New York, and for 20 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:28,119 Speaker 2: years she lived in fear that she or her parents 21 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 2: would be deported, worried that her family would be torn apart. 22 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,839 Speaker 2: Earlier this year, Gatristina Himeniz released her memoir Dreaming of home, 23 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 2: how we turn fear into pride, power and real change. 24 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 2: She like I was a guest at the Raissado Festival 25 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: in Aspen, Colorado, late in August. It's a gathering that 26 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 2: celebrates Latino culture, leadership and creativity, and like a good activist, 27 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: Gatistina captured the moment that we're facing. 28 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 3: Here is here. I think it won't go away, And 29 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 3: what I will tell your listeners is that this is 30 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 3: a moment of realizing that silence and hiding won't protect us, 31 00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 3: but community will. 32 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 2: From Futuro Media, it's Latino USA. I'm Maria Rosa. Today 33 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 2: my conversation with one of the very few American activists 34 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 2: to ever win the MacArthur Genius Award. Her name is 35 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 2: Christina human Is. We're going to talk about the strength 36 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 2: and need for activism in order to protect immigrant communities 37 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 2: these days, also the fear of losing her own husband 38 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: to ice officers, and Christina and I both get quite 39 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,680 Speaker 2: personal about the constant need to make this country love us. 40 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: Christina Himan is, welcome to Latino USA. 41 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: I've been wanting to speak to you for I don't know, officially, 42 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: maybe a year, so great to have you on the show. 43 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 3: Madia, it's so wonderful to be here. I love Latino, USA, 44 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 3: and it's such a dream come true to be in 45 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: this conversation with you. 46 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: So, Christina, you know, a year ago, I don't know 47 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 2: if you remember the conversation that we had. Basically what 48 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 2: you said to me was, I'm afraid. I'm afraid of 49 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: my book releasing. I'm formally undocumented, I'm an activist. The 50 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: book has been out now, So what do you think 51 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: now about that fear that you had? 52 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: You know, Maria, a lot of people in the book 53 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 3: events I've been across the country asked me this question 54 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 3: of so when does your fear go away or how 55 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 3: does that happen? And I have to be real and 56 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 3: vulnerable that even though I am a naturalized citizen today 57 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 3: though let's be clear, under the current conditions and this government, 58 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 3: people who are naturalized are not safe either. But even 59 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: earlier in the year before many of the attacks on 60 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:22,799 Speaker 3: even naturalized citizens came up, the fear has not left 61 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 3: my body because I have loved ones who have daka, 62 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 3: loved ones who are undocumented. I'm so connected to many 63 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 3: members of my community and my family that are impacted 64 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 3: by all that's happening right now. And I also know 65 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 3: that my work organizing communities, being out there fighting for 66 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 3: people's right and dignity makes me a target. But the 67 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 3: fear is here. I think you won't go away. And 68 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 3: what I'll tell your listeners is that this is a 69 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 3: moment of realizing that silence and hiding won't protect us, 70 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 3: but community will. 71 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 2: I don't know if people understand that actually living undocumented 72 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 2: is a highly existential experience, and so I'm wondering about 73 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 2: this notion of, you know, philosophically understanding that as an 74 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 2: undocumented person, as an immigrant not born in this country, 75 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: that we have a philosophy of life that moves us, 76 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 2: which is when we're scared the nemos mio, we don't 77 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: know what's going to happen, but one foot in front 78 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: of the other. 79 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I learned from my parents, Maria, and 80 00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 3: in this book is such an moment to the courage 81 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 3: of my parents and what I learned from you know, 82 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 3: it's not like they told me, miha. This is where 83 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 3: courage looks like. They never had that like conversation and 84 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 3: you know, the dinner table with me, But it was 85 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:10,720 Speaker 3: by watching and seeing how they did, and in fact, 86 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 3: you know, both of them passed away and they were 87 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 3: unable to say their last goodbyes because that we were 88 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: undocumented in this country. And I watch that, and I 89 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 3: tell you, when I travel abroad and I have to 90 00:06:21,360 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 3: come through customs again, I always, I always fear that 91 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,599 Speaker 3: I'm not going to be let in, and I have 92 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 3: done nothing wrong other than being any immigrant in this country. 93 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 2: It's interesting because you know, the narrative by this administration 94 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: is one that as immigrants, you and I are like, well, 95 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,920 Speaker 2: who is he talking about? You know that we are takers, 96 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 2: that we are losers, that we are people who are 97 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: prone to criminality. All of this is the opposite of 98 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: what we actually experience. And I often find myself, Christina, 99 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:03,159 Speaker 2: just wishing that people could understand that strength. And a 100 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,919 Speaker 2: lot of the theme of your book is you actually 101 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 2: have power, immigrants, undocumented immigrants, You actually have. 102 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 3: Power, and we are heroes. Just to think about all 103 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 3: of the mothers, father's families that come the risks so 104 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 3: much their lives literally and survive so much by the 105 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 3: way to cross different places to get here. And I 106 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: always remember when I was writing the book My Dea, 107 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 3: there was this woman under the Biden administration in the 108 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 3: first couple of months, where Kamala Harris goes to Guatemala 109 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 3: and she has a press conference with the president of Guatemala. 110 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 3: I want to be clear to folks in this region 111 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 3: who are thinking about making that dangerous trek to the 112 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 3: United States Mexico border. And the whole point of that 113 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: press conference was to say, do not come, do not come. 114 00:07:56,840 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 3: And I sat with that in tears, that the first 115 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 3: black and immigrant vice president, women who are being a 116 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 3: champion for immigrant rights, for saying that, and that she 117 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 3: was using this big, powerful platform to send that message. 118 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 3: And I sat with it because it's almost like a 119 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 3: denial that there are greater forces that push people to 120 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 3: leave their homes, as if we like dream to choose 121 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 3: to leave everything behind not knowing what you know, what 122 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 3: is going to be a stake, risking our lives. We 123 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: don't do that out of fun and joy or because 124 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 3: we dream of it. When I wrote my book, I 125 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 3: kept thinking about Tony Morrison and how she unapologetically wrote 126 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 3: for black people. I wrote this book for the undocumented 127 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 3: young girl that was ashamed and afraid and had no 128 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 3: hope or felt powerless. I wrote it for that girl. 129 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 3: I wrote it for our hinted for our people to 130 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 3: also confront us that sometimes we believe those lives. I 131 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 3: believe those lives, and I tap into this vulnerability in 132 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 3: the book to say, like, I don't want to just 133 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 3: talk about the Americans that believe all these lies. 134 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: I believe these lies. 135 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 3: I grew up in a nine to eleven era in 136 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,200 Speaker 3: New York City where everything I heard about being an 137 00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 3: immigrant being not from this country was shame, bad, bad, 138 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: bad bad. I internalized those lives. I believed that somehow me, 139 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 3: my parents had done something wrong for coming to this country. 140 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 3: I internalize the lie, and my journey gets transformed that idea, 141 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 3: and that lie gets transformed and gets shed because I 142 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 3: meet on document the young people that are fighting deportations. 143 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 2: Take us to that moment when you decide, after being 144 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: very tenuous about the whole notion about being an activist, 145 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: when you're like, no, no, no, I'm gonna go public 146 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: now with the thing that has been the most shameful, hidden, scary, 147 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: and you're like, Soichika, but you're about to hear me 148 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 2: what happened in that moment and why did you decide 149 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:18,959 Speaker 2: to do that? 150 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,959 Speaker 3: The context is the early two thousands, the terrorist attacks 151 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 3: of nine to eleven happened, and the country moves in 152 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 3: a direction of fighting terror. But the way that that 153 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 3: looks like for domestic policy in particular, which was, you 154 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 3: know what many of us experience was the creation of 155 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 3: homeland security, increase resources for the tension and deportation. All 156 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 3: of us become a target in Muslim communities, immigrant communities. 157 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 3: This notion of fighting deportations was not a thing in 158 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 3: that day. And then I get to know about Marican Sales. 159 00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 3: American Sales is the first undocumented young person and her 160 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: and her family, because of nine eleven policies in Missouri, 161 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: ends up being targeted for deportation, and she has the 162 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 3: courage to share his story publicly. 163 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 4: I got off that stage and I had students come 164 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 4: up to me and they said thank you, and I 165 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,319 Speaker 4: said for what? But they were like tears streaming down 166 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 4: their face. I can't tell my story, but it is 167 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 4: my fear, and you're living my biggest fear. 168 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 3: So what do I have to lose? And then I 169 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,680 Speaker 3: saw all these people. I get invited to my first rally, 170 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 3: So I joined this rally and I'm scared. I'm not 171 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 3: even like chanting. But then I start chanting, and I 172 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 3: hold a sign, and I become part of the crowd 173 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 3: that is chanting education not deportation, Education not deportation, and 174 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 3: I start getting goose bombs, like I'm chanting with all 175 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 3: of these people that I don't even know. What I 176 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,320 Speaker 3: realized is that in that crowd there were students from 177 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 3: the city of University of New York, some of them 178 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 3: that I know, but there was also a lot of 179 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 3: Americans from all walks of. 180 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: Life that don't even know Marie. 181 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,440 Speaker 3: Nobody has met her in person, and yet they were 182 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 3: fighting for her right to stay. And that Maria was 183 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 3: the moment that totally transformed things for me, because if 184 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,400 Speaker 3: people that did not even know Marie were fighting for her, 185 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 3: and if I was to be the next Marie Gonzales 186 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 3: facing deportation, I wanted that community to be fighting for 187 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 3: me too. 188 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,239 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, the challenges of building aggress 189 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: roots movement. 190 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 3: Conflict is going to emerge. Differences are going to emerge, 191 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,960 Speaker 3: Difference of opinion around strategy are going to emerge. We 192 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,479 Speaker 3: had a conflict with the older generation stay with us notes, 193 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 3: Hey we're back, Let's jump back into the conversation with 194 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 3: Pristina Hi Minez, and we're going to pick it up 195 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 3: by talking about the making of the organization United We Dream, 196 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 3: which happened in two thousand and eight. 197 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 2: You're now not just an activist, you are, in fact 198 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: making history as an activist in the United States because 199 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 2: you helped co found United We Dream, which was an 200 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 2: immigrant led youth movement that frankly changed history. To me, 201 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 2: this is like when United We Dream shows up right, 202 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 2: I'm wondering about how you see that transition to it's 203 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 2: not just you as one of many activists. It's like, no, 204 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: now I'm going to co found an organization to help 205 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 2: represent these hundreds and thousands of people. 206 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 3: You know. In my book, I tell the journey on 207 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 3: my transformation of finding my voice and my power in 208 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 3: this community of organizers, in this community of young, courageous 209 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 3: people that are fighting deportations. Many of them have lost 210 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 3: family members to deportations, and they are such a big 211 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 3: source of inspiration for me to tap into that courage. 212 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: And my hope. 213 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 3: Is that by people learning about this journey, they can 214 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: also see themselves in it. This book is for anyone 215 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 3: who's afraid right now. This book is for anyone who 216 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 3: has ever felt like you don't belong or that has 217 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 3: felt powerless or hopeless. And my hope in people and 218 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,760 Speaker 3: readers being able to follow my journey of a shame 219 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: and afraid to like unapologetically undocumented, unafraid and leading the 220 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 3: building of a movement and an organization is that we 221 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 3: can do that too. You can do that too, and 222 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 3: it is hopeful, and it's inspiring and it's empowering. And also, Maria, 223 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 3: it's really hard. It's really hard. Even when we find 224 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 3: spaces of community where we have a share vision and 225 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 3: share values, conflict is going to emerge. Differences are going 226 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 3: to emerge, Difference of opinion around strategy are going to emerge, 227 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 3: and then the question for us as leaders and organizers 228 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 3: are how do we deal with that. We had a 229 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 3: conflict with the older generation. 230 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 2: The older generation didn't want you guys out on the 231 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 2: street pushing right. They were saying, no, no, no, alguba pasad, 232 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: why are you guys protesting your bringing attention to us. 233 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 2: Don't do that, gay La Boca. 234 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 3: I want to remind people the planting of the seeds 235 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 3: and the work were happening in the early two thousands, 236 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 3: so it takes over ten years to get to this 237 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,680 Speaker 3: point that moment. What it does is that it shows 238 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,320 Speaker 3: us what power we having, what we don't. 239 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 2: Have, because twenty ten is a huge defeat for the 240 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: immigrant rights movement, for young immigrant right lead rights leaders 241 00:15:58,240 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: like yourself. 242 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,240 Speaker 1: The film of DOCA to pass the. 243 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: Criticism from the older generation saying we should not be 244 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 2: doing this piecemeal. Also, it should be comprehensive immigration reform. 245 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 1: You for having the courage. 246 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 3: To stand here today to demand immigration reform. 247 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 5: I cannot a justice today. The Senate voted against the 248 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 5: Dream Act. It would have offered a path to citizenship 249 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 5: to some illegal immigrant students who plan to join the 250 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 5: military or go to college. 251 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: So, Cristina, was DOCA a mistake? Was it not a mistake? 252 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 3: Now? I stand behind Doc. Can I tell you why? 253 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 3: It's not about being right? And you know, often in 254 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: leadership people not being open to recognizing mistakes. I could 255 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: tell you about other mistakes that I think that we've made. 256 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 3: But DOCA, it's a huge victory for us to own 257 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 3: because the millions of lives that happen changed were all 258 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:04,400 Speaker 3: worth it. There are millions of lives of DACA recipients 259 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 3: who were able to pursue a college education, who were 260 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 3: able to buy homes, who were able to get cars, 261 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:13,800 Speaker 3: who were able to support their family members, who were 262 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 3: able to get insurance, healthy insurance for the first time 263 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,960 Speaker 3: in their lives, to treat diseases that they've never been 264 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 3: able to treat. The number of people that then also 265 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 3: happened to fall in love and you know, find a 266 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 3: pathway through marriage that DACA allowed for that to happen. 267 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 3: DACA also allowed for many people to go back and 268 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 3: see there are a bulitos and there are abuelitas and 269 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 3: say good byes. Nobody will take that away from us, 270 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: no one, And that impact there are millions of lives 271 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 3: that have been touched. I mean, people don't think about this, 272 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 3: but you know, if you want to be a policy 273 00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 3: wonk about it, DOCA was an out of poverty program. 274 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: About to say, people don't talk about the fact that 275 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 2: DACA actually had an impact on the American economy because 276 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 2: you can employ them, they could buy the homes, they 277 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 2: could get enrolled into college. 278 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:16,959 Speaker 3: But it's also la vida destra hintic cambio. So there 279 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 3: are the days and moments that I feel very tired, 280 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 3: and I feel very angry at myself for wanting this 281 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,200 Speaker 3: country to want as Maria. 282 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 2: Oh my god, when you said that, I feel rejected 283 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: when you said that, this fight of always. 284 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: Wanting to have this country love. 285 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 2: You, and so we work so hard and we write 286 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 2: books and we're like doing sixteen childs and it's. 287 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:42,720 Speaker 1: Like, will you just see us? 288 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 3: It's exhausting, it's exhausting, and so I feel sometimes mad 289 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 3: on myself for still longing for this country to see 290 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 3: me as one of their own. And I'm just cry 291 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 3: right now. 292 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 1: That both of us were trying. This is ridiculous, right, 293 00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,520 Speaker 1: And yet, Maria, when I hold true. 294 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,920 Speaker 3: Is that it's also in this country where I found 295 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,679 Speaker 3: my purpose and I found my voice, and I found 296 00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 3: a community that comes from a rich tradition of civil 297 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:17,119 Speaker 3: rights fighters, women rights, indigenous people, black people that have 298 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 3: been fighting for this country to really live up to 299 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 3: those aspirational values of freedom and equality for all people 300 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 3: that we have yet to achieve. But it is in 301 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 3: that rich tradition that you and I and many of 302 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 3: us get to be part of it now and carry 303 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 3: that lineage and that tradition forward. And that's also what 304 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,560 Speaker 3: this country has given me. This country has also given 305 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 3: me my family. My husband is only here because Americans 306 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 3: from all walks of life for his release from a 307 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 3: detention facility in upstin New York and prevented his deportation. 308 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 3: And Walter and I now continue to live in New 309 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 3: York and have a three year old that was born here. 310 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: Last story. 311 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 3: It's only possible because Americans made a choice to fight 312 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 3: for justice, and that is what brings me hope right 313 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 3: now because I see people all across the country fighting 314 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 3: for their neighbors, immigrants not immigrants. This is like a 315 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 3: multiracial moment where people are realizing this ain't about just immigrants, 316 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 3: It's about all of us. And for our Latinos and Latinas, 317 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 3: trust me, we are now part of the vision that 318 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 3: they have for this country. The folks that want to 319 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 3: keep this country white, and they want to weaken this 320 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 3: democracy and leave under undemocratic conditions. They don't want us, 321 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 3: whether you have papers or not. When I think about 322 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 3: the young Christinas out in the world right now, this 323 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 3: is their moment. And as a student of history and 324 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: also now you know, a professor at the City University 325 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 3: of New York, I teach my students that when you 326 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 3: look at the world. There's never been social transformation with 327 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:08,359 Speaker 3: that young people at the front. 328 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 2: We'll be right back, bay, Yes, hey, we're back. Here's 329 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:35,160 Speaker 2: the last part of my conversation with Christina Jimenez. Okay, 330 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 2: and now a difficult question, because we've all lived through this, right, 331 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,919 Speaker 2: which is your expectation, your prediction about how this is 332 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 2: a moment where Latinos and Latinas are going to be 333 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 2: transformational yet again, because have been throughout history, and yet 334 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: Latinos and Latinas did vote for Donald Trump in numbers 335 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,000 Speaker 2: that we had not seen before. 336 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: What is your understanding of. 337 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: What to do with the conservative Latinos and Latinas who 338 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: voted for Donald Trump and who many of them still 339 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 2: are believing the rhetoric that the only people that are 340 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 2: being targeted are the criminals. 341 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:15,119 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and we have to be sober about this. 342 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: Maria. 343 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 3: I don't think that the mass deportations and the mass 344 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 3: pain and terror that it's happening is magically going to 345 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 3: transform people. But I do think it opens an opportunity 346 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 3: for those of us who are interested in social change 347 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 3: and who are committed to it, and who are committed 348 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,359 Speaker 3: to building power for our community. We have an opportunity 349 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,919 Speaker 3: in front of us, but it's up to us to 350 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,239 Speaker 3: make that happen. They don't feel like this administration has 351 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 3: delivered on their economic interest, like the price of X 352 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,239 Speaker 3: had not gone down because of mass importations folks, right, 353 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 3: Like it takes no science or no data to just 354 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 3: like realize the deportation of the workers that are actually 355 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,199 Speaker 3: making our food train possible. And I think people are 356 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 3: starting to know is who's really to blame? People in 357 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 3: power and billionaires that just want to get more money 358 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:09,879 Speaker 3: out of this situation. So I think that it is 359 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 3: our job to be able to make those connections. Migration 360 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 3: is a love story. We may not think about immigration 361 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 3: as a love story, and what I try to do 362 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 3: with this book is that it is I witness my 363 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 3: parents taking this great risk because they love me and 364 00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 3: they love our family. I also experienced and seeing Americans 365 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 3: from all walks of life, even right now, fighting against 366 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 3: deportations out of love for their neighbors and their friends 367 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 3: and their family members. Like the high schooler in Massachusetts 368 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 3: whose volleyball team rallied marched, you know, took action to 369 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,960 Speaker 3: get him out of detention. And that's love, just with 370 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 3: a very emotional. 371 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: Day for these students, filled with tears, prayers and a 372 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 2: strong sense of unity for Marcelo Gomez and Jnight remains 373 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 2: and Ice customers. By the size of that crowd, the 374 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 2: students walking out of the school, Marcelo Gomez has a 375 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 2: lot of people in his corner. About your love story 376 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 2: with your husband, Walter, you were very trepidacious at first, 377 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 2: and yet when you jumped in with him, suddenly you're 378 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 2: now faced with not the trepidation of love, but the 379 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 2: fact that your husband has been detained. He was not 380 00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 2: your husband at the time, right, but that your boyfriend 381 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 2: had been detained. 382 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,399 Speaker 3: We were not even not even. So this is the 383 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 3: thing that happens. Everybody around us is telling us, like 384 00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,600 Speaker 3: you all, like are such a great match, look at 385 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 3: the energy that you all have when you're with each other, 386 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 3: and you're like such bad as organizers, you'll should date. 387 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 3: And we're telling our friends separately, like no way, he's 388 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 3: on document, this, she's on document. You don't want to 389 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,200 Speaker 3: do that, Like imagine pull your heart at so much 390 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,480 Speaker 3: risk of falling in love with someone who could potentially 391 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 3: be the ported tomorrow. No way, And the idea that 392 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: I could be in a situation where I may never 393 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,720 Speaker 3: see him again. Was the thing that helped me recognize 394 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 3: what sometimes we often ignore, that it's already in our heart, 395 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 3: and he had the same feeling, and so we didn't 396 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 3: even have to talk much about it. I think we knew. 397 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,679 Speaker 3: That's when we decided, no matter what like and what 398 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 3: happens and the uncertainty of both being undocumented, we're not 399 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 3: going to let this injustice and this system that wants 400 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 3: to take away our freedom, our freedom to love each other. 401 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 2: So the love story is actually thanks to the repression 402 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 2: that leads to the activism that leads to the love story. 403 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,120 Speaker 3: He's been a journey, but we're going strong and if anything, 404 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 3: just even more committed to making this world better place 405 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:03,320 Speaker 3: for our son and for all of our kids. 406 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 2: We love a good telenovela story and where it ends 407 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 2: with love. 408 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: We love that. Gristina Jimenez, thank you so much for 409 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: joining me on Leatino USA. So great to be with you. Maria, 410 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 1: Thank you. 411 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: That was Gristina ki Minez, activist organizer and co founder 412 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 2: of United We Dream, the largest immigrant youth led movement 413 00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 2: in the country. She and I spoke in Aspen, Colorado 414 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 2: after the Raisavo Festival. That's it for today. This episode 415 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 2: was produced by Adriana Rodriguez. It was edited by our 416 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 2: managing editor Fernanda Echavarri. It was mixed by Stephanie LeBeau. 417 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 2: Special thanks to Aspen Public Radio and Daniel Costello. The 418 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 2: Latino USA team also includes Roxanna Guire, Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis, 419 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 2: Renaldo Leans Junior, Andrea Lopez, Cruzado, Luis Luna, Gloni mar Marquez, 420 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 2: Julieta Martinelli, Monica Moranez, Garcia, JJ Krubin and Nancy Trujillo. 421 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: Penilee Ramirez and I. 422 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 2: Are executive producers and I'm your host, Mariao Josa. Latino 423 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 2: USA is part of Iheart's Mykududa podcast network. Executive producers 424 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 2: at iHeart are Leo Gomez and Arlene Santana. Join us 425 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 2: again on our next episode. In the meantime, I'll see 426 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 2: you on all of our social media and especially on 427 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:43,720 Speaker 2: Instagram and Dear listener, remember join Futuro Plus. You get 428 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 2: to listen to the episodes without any ads, and also 429 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 2: you get bonus content behind the scenes. 430 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: Cheese may just do it. You'll love it. 431 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: Uduo Plus Now Astell approximaes Chao. 432 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 3: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Anni E. 433 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: Casey Foundation. 434 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,440 Speaker 4: Creates a brighter future for the nation's children by strengthening families, 435 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:16,120 Speaker 4: building greater economic opportunity, and transforming communities. W. K. 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