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Speaker 1: Hey, this is pridgett Assembly and you're listening to stuff

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Speaker 1: mom never told you. Now today we have to give

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Speaker 1: a trigger warning and because we're going to be discussing

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Speaker 1: the absolutely intense case of Olympic gymnast doctor Larry Nasser.

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Speaker 1: So if that's going to be something that's tough for

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Speaker 1: you to listen to, just know that's what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about today. Now you probably have seen what happened with

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Speaker 1: this case. It's one that I think really illustrates the

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Speaker 1: magnitude to which someone can go on abusing women and

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Speaker 1: girls for a very very long time with very very

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Speaker 1: little consequence. I mean, one of the biggest questions for

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Speaker 1: this case, which we'll get into, is how many people

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Speaker 1: seem to apparently have been complicit it and allowing this

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Speaker 1: to continue, which the question now is what level of

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Speaker 1: complicity is criminal exactly. A lot of people have been

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Speaker 1: comparing it to the Penn State Jerry Sandusky situation, which,

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Speaker 1: interestingly enough, I saw a lot of journalists and folks

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Speaker 1: on Twitter asking when this thing was just sort of

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Speaker 1: bubbling up and people weren't really talking about it that much.

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Speaker 1: The Penn State situation was such a huge story and

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Speaker 1: scandal as it should have been. Why did it take

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Speaker 1: so long for this to gather steam. Why did this

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Speaker 1: story which had been out there for a while, why

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Speaker 1: was it not a similar thing? It also just puts

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Speaker 1: another thing on the list of things that enraged me

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Speaker 1: about how much higher education is failing women. Oh, absolutely, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: when you think about the fact that very likely, you know,

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Speaker 1: a college, Michigan State University was letting these women and

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Speaker 1: girls be abused without really doing a lot to stop it.

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Speaker 1: When you think about that, it really I mean, you

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Speaker 1: send someone to a doctor to help them, to take

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Speaker 1: care of them, and if they were knowingly putting these

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Speaker 1: girls in harm's way, it's just you really look at

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Speaker 1: the university and you say, what do you do? How

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Speaker 1: did you let this continue? So wait, let's take a

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Speaker 1: step backwards. Let's review sort of baseline of the case.

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Speaker 1: What happened? Why did this make the news so dramatically?

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Speaker 1: So basically, here's what went down. Nasser was the team

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Speaker 1: doctor for USA Gymnastics, and through four Olympic Games he

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Speaker 1: treated hopeful young gymnasts and gold medal winners alike. He

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Speaker 1: treated people that you probably have heard of if you

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Speaker 1: follow gymnastics at all, I'm talking folks like Gabby Douglas, MICHAELA. Moroney,

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Speaker 1: Ali Riceman, So he was really dealing with some of

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Speaker 1: the biggest athletes in the world. He also worked for

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Speaker 1: Michigan State University from n to twenty sixteen as an

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Speaker 1: associate professor and served as the gymnastics and Women's crew

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Speaker 1: team physician. So basically, under the guise of medical treatments,

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Speaker 1: he had been digitally penetrating women and girls under his

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Speaker 1: care for quite some time. So they would go in for,

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Speaker 1: you know, to get medical help, and he would put

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Speaker 1: his finger in side of them and tell them it

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Speaker 1: was some sort of a special treatment to to realign,

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Speaker 1: you know, their body, right. And part of what made

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Speaker 1: this so enraging is the fact that he was a

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Speaker 1: very well known and beloved doctor in the community. Right,

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Speaker 1: So what's scary about this is this is a person

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Speaker 1: who used his power and his sort of persuasive persona

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Speaker 1: to befriend people, make people feel like they could trust him,

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Speaker 1: to use his position of power as a medical professional

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Speaker 1: to completely violate the medical professions code of ethics of

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Speaker 1: doing no harm. Absolutely. There's this podcast it's very very

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Speaker 1: popular in the gymnastics community called gym castic And he's

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Speaker 1: actually in an episode of that podcast that I listened

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Speaker 1: to in preparation for this episode, and you really see

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Speaker 1: that he presented himself as the good guy right the community.

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Speaker 1: He was beloved by this community, and in a sport

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Speaker 1: that is so focused on women person themselves to their

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Speaker 1: physical limits, he very likely gained their trust by presenting

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Speaker 1: himself as someone who cared about their physicality, someone who

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Speaker 1: talked about their mental health and emotional health. And listen

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Speaker 1: to that podcast, you know it's it's so creepy after

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Speaker 1: the facts, so I do now you can recommend listening

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Speaker 1: to it because it's so creepy. But you see the

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Speaker 1: way that he used that to gain trust. You see

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Speaker 1: the way that he used that to sort of gain

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Speaker 1: that status that we give doctors in our communities. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and back in November, he pled guilty to ten charges

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Speaker 1: of molestation and in a separate case, was found guilty

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Speaker 1: of having more than thirty seven thousand images and videos

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Speaker 1: of child pornography found on his computer. So this guy

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Speaker 1: is a world class creep Yes, honestly is it? So

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Speaker 1: these allegations weren't really taken seriously until August, when former

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Speaker 1: gymnast Rachel den Hollander became the first person that foul

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Speaker 1: a criminal complaint against him. And what's so enraging is

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Speaker 1: that it took until sixteen to bring this guy to

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Speaker 1: court for these charges after he's been doing this since nineteen,

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Speaker 1: he admits, And there were so many opportunities to take action,

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Speaker 1: and all of the governing organizations that he was involved

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Speaker 1: with failed to do so despite concerns and complaints. So

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Speaker 1: back in nine seven or mid a gymnast alleges that

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Speaker 1: she complained to the m s U gymnastics coach Kathy Klages,

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Speaker 1: saying that she was concerned at the time about NASA's treatments.

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Speaker 1: Klages discouraged her from filling a formal complaint and informed

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Speaker 1: Nasser of the conversation, basically going straight to the guy

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Speaker 1: who she's trying to report. And this person who's reporting

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Speaker 1: is a teenager at the time, who are then coach

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Speaker 1: dissuades from reporting, right, So the power dynamic there is

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Speaker 1: something to take into consideration. A teenage child says there's

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Speaker 1: something wrong here, her coach goes to the person she's

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Speaker 1: reporting tattles on her, which is a totally wrong thing

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Speaker 1: to do. I want to talk about a violation of trust,

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Speaker 1: and then discourages her from making any kind of formal

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Speaker 1: complaint instead of maybe listening. You see that time and

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Speaker 1: time again in this case, for several years in n

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Speaker 1: and again in two thousand, an M s U softball

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Speaker 1: player told three athletic trainers that he sexually inappropriately touched

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Speaker 1: her during a medical treatment. She alleges that those trainers

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Speaker 1: dismissed her concerns, and one of them even said that

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Speaker 1: she should feel grateful to be treated by such a

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Speaker 1: world class doctor, an Olympic doctor who quote knew what

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Speaker 1: he was doing. Basically, don't question anyone. And you know what,

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Speaker 1: I've been a part of sports leagues throughout my childhood

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Speaker 1: and teenage years in college years, and that kind of

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Speaker 1: blind obedience is drilled into players in a way that

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Speaker 1: sets that kind of arena up for sexual predators to

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Speaker 1: get away with it for years, and it's it's totally wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's totally wrong. I really see so many intersections that

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Speaker 1: allowed this to fester for so long. I think part

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Speaker 1: of it is what you're talking about, where they just

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Speaker 1: drill in that these people know what they're doing. I

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Speaker 1: think part of it is that the elevated place we

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Speaker 1: give medical professionals. I also think it's part of it

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Speaker 1: is not taking the complaints and the pain of women

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Speaker 1: and girls seriously, because these athletes did exactly what you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to do in this situation. But you know, they

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Speaker 1: did everything right, they did nothing wrong, and yet their

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Speaker 1: concerns were dismissed again and again and again. And I

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Speaker 1: think you see that so often in situations like this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's just a total failure of chain of command

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Speaker 1: to it. It reminds me of sexual assault in the

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Speaker 1: military in a way where soldiers are expected to fall

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Speaker 1: in line and obedience is expected, and if you have

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Speaker 1: a problem with a superior the avenues for reporting those

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Speaker 1: problems are extremely hard to come by, and there's a

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Speaker 1: total failure when it comes to the chain of command

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Speaker 1: for holding people in positions of power accountable. Well, talk

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Speaker 1: about a failure of a chain of command. Inen The

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Speaker 1: Ingham County Prosecutor's Office actually investigated this doctor after there

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Speaker 1: was a flurry of complaints, and they found that his

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Speaker 1: treatments were quote medically sound, And it just enrages me

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Speaker 1: that they supposedly looked into this and they just found

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong. The fact that this man was not even

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Speaker 1: using a gloved finger to insert his finger inside of

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Speaker 1: people without getting their consent, without another person in the

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Speaker 1: room injured hamstring. Um, No, like, no, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's there's no, it's not like her vagina

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Speaker 1: was broken. Exactly exactly do you come in for like

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Speaker 1: a headache and he says I need to do this.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't make any sense. Um. It also needs to

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Speaker 1: be said that one of the people involved in that investigation,

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Speaker 1: Stuart Dudding's, actually resigned himself in March for his own

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Speaker 1: sexual misconduct allegations. So it's just really just creeps the

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Speaker 1: whole way down and it's really enraging. And what's incredible

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Speaker 1: is that rage was clearly put on display this past

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Speaker 1: month when beyond the actual criminal lawsuits and him being

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Speaker 1: found guilty after pleading guilty to all of these charges,

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Speaker 1: this past month we saw a flurry of viral attention

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Speaker 1: brought to this case because of the sentencing, which is

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Speaker 1: where this story really gets interesting. We'll be right back

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Speaker 1: after this quick break to break it down, and we're back,

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Speaker 1: and I think we can all agree that this person,

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Speaker 1: Larry Nasser, was troublingly allowed to continue lusting women and

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Speaker 1: girls and abusing his power as a medical professional, and

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Speaker 1: that's disgusting and abhorrent and he should be punished for it.

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Speaker 1: I think we can all agree on that. Yeah, hopefully

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Speaker 1: there's not anybody out I mean, maybe other creeps, but

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Speaker 1: hopefully most reasonable non creeps. I think we can all agree.

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Speaker 1: What gets interesting, however, is how this sentencing went down.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that right, Bridget That is an interesting development in

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Speaker 1: this story. So this was a situation where many of

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Speaker 1: us watched the sentencing happened live on television, and I

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Speaker 1: definitely watched it with bated breath, and you really can't

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Speaker 1: help but highlight how it was really a powerful, powerful

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Speaker 1: thing to watch. You had these victims getting up and

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Speaker 1: reading these impact statements about what happened to them. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, The Daily the podcast by the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: did a really good job of running through some of

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Speaker 1: these powerful testimonies, which is what brought this case into

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Speaker 1: the mainstream. By the way, it's not the fifty some

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Speaker 1: oddcounts of child molestation that brought this case into everybody's

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Speaker 1: collective consciousness. It was the fact that the judge presiding

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Speaker 1: over the sentencing process, Judge rose Marie Aquilina allowed victims

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Speaker 1: open opportunities, open mic basically, the opportunity to come make

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Speaker 1: a statement that it helps explain to you, the judge,

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Speaker 1: what kind of impact this person's crime has had on

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Speaker 1: their lives. And the Daily did a really great rundown

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Speaker 1: of what a relatively historically new phenomenon that is. And

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Speaker 1: I want to first play a few of the impact

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Speaker 1: statements which have been so moving and so heartbreaking, but

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Speaker 1: so important in the era of me too, of getting

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Speaker 1: this point across of why this was so horrific. I

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Speaker 1: was eleven years old when I first went to see Larry.

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Speaker 1: I was seven years old. I was only twelve. I

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Speaker 1: had been as patient since I was eight years old.

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Speaker 1: The pain you have caused me mentally and emotionally is unexplainable.

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Speaker 1: And I was taught that it is not okay for

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Speaker 1: anyone to touch you down there unless it's a doctor,

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Speaker 1: and you were a world renowned doctor. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: reality is that the reason this case is so newsworthy

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Speaker 1: right now, beyond the horrific nature of how long this

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Speaker 1: total criminal creep was allowed to continue harming women and girls,

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Speaker 1: is the fact that this is unprecedented amount of victim

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Speaker 1: impact testimony that was not only delivered in the courtroom

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Speaker 1: but also publicized on television. Yeah, I mean you actually

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Speaker 1: even saw his lawyer and Larry himself saying, it's not

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Speaker 1: okay that I have to listen to this amount of

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Speaker 1: victim's impact statements. This is too much. It's psychologically damaging. Which, interestingly,

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Speaker 1: that statement from Larry was read aloud in the courtroom

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Speaker 1: by the presiding judge, to the laughter of folks in

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Speaker 1: the courtroom. Because, of course, his pain in this instance,

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Speaker 1: his psychological torture pales in comparison to the damage he's done.

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Speaker 1: But it was a very interesting public shaming of this person,

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Speaker 1: which is understandable and rightful, but from a do process standpoint,

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Speaker 1: it's it's an interesting development. So here's his letter as

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Speaker 1: read by the judge. Everything wrong. They feel that is awful. Hell,

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Speaker 1: hath no fury like a woman scorned by the way

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Speaker 1: that portion of the letter. People gasped when they heard that,

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Speaker 1: because it's such a I mean what, it's such an

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Speaker 1: ignorant demonstration that he has nocking concept of the damage

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Speaker 1: he's actually done and somehow is still justifying his behavior

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Speaker 1: like it's somehow the seven year old girl's fault, like

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Speaker 1: she's a woman scorned and that justifies what he did. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: calling I hadn't even I hadn't even zeroed in on

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Speaker 1: that part of how horrible that is, to say, calling

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Speaker 1: a seven year old, a thirteen year old or fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old that you abused a quote woman scorned, That

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Speaker 1: is really next level and it really demonstrates that he

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Speaker 1: doesn't understand that he could hear story after story after

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Speaker 1: story of how damaging this was and still say I

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Speaker 1: don't think it was that bad. The media twisted it, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, what's interesting is that poured gasoline on this fire.

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Speaker 1: Right that enraged everyone even further, I think, which added

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Speaker 1: to the long list of people who were ready and

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Speaker 1: willing to give their testimony, give their impact statements, and

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Speaker 1: accelerated the attention that this was getting. Everyone was cheering

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Speaker 1: for this guy to go down in flames, understandably. What's

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Speaker 1: interesting is that later on in sentencing he did give

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Speaker 1: another statement that accepted responsibility, and he had sort of

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Speaker 1: come around, or at least maybe his attorney talked to

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Speaker 1: him into writing a better statement, because he really changed

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Speaker 1: his tune. You know, he went from saying, this is

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Speaker 1: psychologically tortuous for me to listen to these victim impact

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Speaker 1: statements too. I understand your pain. I should pay for

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Speaker 1: my crimes. I'm sorry for what I did. But only

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Speaker 1: after I think the media attention became even more intense.

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Speaker 1: And this judge was very interestingly emphatic in how she

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Speaker 1: decided to preside over her courtroom. Wasn't shame, she was

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Speaker 1: Judge Aquilina. She really had no regard for this man.

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Speaker 1: You could tell that she found it as enraging as

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Speaker 1: the rest of us watching at home. She was as

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Speaker 1: piste as we felt in this situation, and she didn't

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Speaker 1: she really didn't hold back to a point to which

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Speaker 1: I almost don't think we see very often. I don't

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Speaker 1: think we see judges. Is that Yeah, I don't think

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Speaker 1: we do. But then then then that's what gives me pause.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of us wouldn't say this out

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Speaker 1: loud because we want to see this guy go down

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Speaker 1: and flames, myself included. But she's the judge, right, She's

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Speaker 1: the judge who's determining sentencing. She's supposed to be. You know,

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Speaker 1: what is that that um, that statue Lady Justice who's

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Speaker 1: beding weighing the scales of justice or whatever. And she's

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Speaker 1: up there saying, you know, good for you, you, sister survivors.

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Speaker 1: This is a really important process in your healing process.

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Speaker 1: She's sort of verbally coaching the women who came up

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Speaker 1: to give victim impact statements, which is cool, Like she's saying,

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Speaker 1: this is part of your healing process. You're a survivor,

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Speaker 1: you're not a victim. Take your power back on your voice,

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Speaker 1: all of which I agree with. And then she's laughing

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Speaker 1: as she reads this, I'll be it ridiculous statement from

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Speaker 1: Larry Nasser, And you're just like, is that the person

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Speaker 1: that's sentencing this person is she's supposed to be that

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Speaker 1: flagrant lee. On one side of this issue, I can

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Speaker 1: completely understand where you're coming from. I had some really

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Speaker 1: conflicting feelings about this. On the one hand, I was like, Rara,

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Speaker 1: you tell them this is our moment. And then I

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Speaker 1: remember a friend of mine said, you know, your little mislefty,

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Speaker 1: look at you like championing the criminal justice system. Look

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Speaker 1: at you watching this gleefully waiting for this guy to

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Speaker 1: go down. Shouldn't you be advocating for the criminal justice

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Speaker 1: system to be more neutral. I thought, yeah, but I don't.

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Speaker 1: I'm not it was it's hard. It's hard to reconcile.

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Speaker 1: It really is hard to reconcile. I don't understand this

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Speaker 1: queasy feeling that I get. You know. On the one hand,

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Speaker 1: I'm gleefully watching this, and I was so ra rod

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Speaker 1: if he followed the stuff I've never told you Twitter.

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Speaker 1: I was retweeting everything like yes, yes, yes, yes, And

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Speaker 1: then I took a step back and thought, wait, what

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Speaker 1: am I actually celebrating here? Like is it okay to

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Speaker 1: watch this? I don't know, I know what I I

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Speaker 1: totally understand what you're coming from. And I think the

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Speaker 1: feeling stems from how overdo this justice was right? There

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Speaker 1: were so many opportunities for this to be solved, for

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Speaker 1: this justice to be delivered earlier, for hundreds of women

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Speaker 1: and girls to be spared, and so this is long overdue,

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Speaker 1: not to mention historically overdue, because so many child molesters

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Speaker 1: and predators of sexual assault against women and girls especially,

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Speaker 1: but sexual assault in general, have gone unpunished. So it

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Speaker 1: was this sort of cathartic collective moment for when our

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Speaker 1: culture is saying, you know what, we're actually listening to

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Speaker 1: women victims now, So let's come down on this guy

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Speaker 1: as a symbol of the hashtag met moment that we

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Speaker 1: find ourselves in. But honestly, the whole concept of victim

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Speaker 1: impact statements has never been used this way before, and

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Speaker 1: for anybody who cares about equal justice under the law,

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Speaker 1: this raises some concerning questions. One thing that's really important

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Speaker 1: to keep in mind is that victims role in sentencing

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Speaker 1: has long been a debate in the legal community. These

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Speaker 1: cases are typically the state versus or the people versus

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Speaker 1: some predator in this regard, and so our country has

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Speaker 1: been wrestling with the role that victims should play in

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Speaker 1: seeking justice without necessarily creating an environment that seems prejudice

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Speaker 1: show against more and higher and more severe sentencing. So

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Speaker 1: back in seven, the Supreme Court weighed in on how

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Speaker 1: victims should be involved in the sentencing part of the

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Speaker 1: due process that our our justice system carries out. So

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Speaker 1: in this case Booth versus Maryland, the victims were saying,

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Speaker 1: we're left out of the process altogether. We want to

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Speaker 1: be able to make victim impact statements at sentencing, and

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Speaker 1: the case was specifically focused on sentencing that included the

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Speaker 1: death penalty, and I want to throw it to The

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Speaker 1: New York Times excellent podcast called The Daily from January

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Speaker 1: twenty five that features a really interesting interview with Emily Baslon,

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Speaker 1: who covers legal issues for the New York Times magazine.

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Speaker 1: Versus Supreme Court said, no, when a judge is deciding

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Speaker 1: whether to sentence someone to death, they are not allowed

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Speaker 1: to hear about the effect the murder has had on

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Speaker 1: family members. It was overturned at some point, right. That's

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Speaker 1: we hold at the eighth amend that erects no automatic

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Speaker 1: bar prohibiting a capital sentencing jury from considering victim impact

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Speaker 1: evidence relating to the victims personal characteristics. And in this

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Speaker 1: later decision, what the court says is the hearing from

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Speaker 1: victims helps educate the judge who's meeting out the sentence

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Speaker 1: about what the harm of the crime has been. The

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Speaker 1: point that they're making is that they should not be

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Speaker 1: able to hear from folks who were not there for

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Speaker 1: the crime, that that has no relevance on guilt or

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Speaker 1: innocent in the court of law. And also they're unpacking

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Speaker 1: our historical discomfort with the injection of raw emotion and

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Speaker 1: impact directly from victims and survivors themselves. Yeah, and that's

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Speaker 1: the thing. Obviously, emotion is part of this. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I almost don't even know where how I feel about

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Speaker 1: this feelings, but you know, obviously this is an emotional crime,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think we can pretend that emotions have

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Speaker 1: no place in the court. Well, it does depend on

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Speaker 1: your philosophy around sentencing. Think about mandatory minimum sentences. That

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Speaker 1: takes all the power out of the judge to be

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Speaker 1: considered of unique levels of impact that someone's crime has

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Speaker 1: had on them. And the question is where what is

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Speaker 1: the role of the judge in sentencing. Should it be, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're guilty of fifty six crimes, You're gonna get X

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Speaker 1: numbers of years because of that. Is it a simple

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Speaker 1: equation or is it let's listen to the robust emotional

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Speaker 1: impact that a hundred and fifty women plus come forward

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Speaker 1: to discuss and share with the cord to then give

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Speaker 1: the judge more of a sort of understanding of how

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Speaker 1: much damage this person has done. See in this case,

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Speaker 1: I actually think that's exactly what was happening. I think

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Speaker 1: that the unprecedented amount of victims impact statements that we

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Speaker 1: heard in the courtroom in this case was to demonstrate

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Speaker 1: just how many victims there were and just how long

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Speaker 1: this abuse went on for, and the magnitude and sheer

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Speaker 1: skille of Naser's crimes. I think it was meant to

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Speaker 1: paint that portrait so that anyone watching would have no

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Speaker 1: misunderstanding about how serious what he did was and how

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Speaker 1: long it spanned for, and how many victims he created.

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Speaker 1: And I get that, I get it too, But where's

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Speaker 1: the tension then, because we could think of a million

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Speaker 1: other examples in which trial by public opinion would influence

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Speaker 1: a judge, perhaps not rightfully so right if I if

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Speaker 1: you know, if every sentencing was publicized live for all

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Speaker 1: of the world to see, it would be a matter

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Speaker 1: of who has the most compelling victim impact statements to

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Speaker 1: bring someone down, you know, like this can also be abused.

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Speaker 1: And I hate saying that, And I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be the due process person here because I think this

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Speaker 1: guy should burn in hell, quite frankly, and I think

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Speaker 1: the victims who came forward did so bravely and courageously

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Speaker 1: and powerfully. Um. But it was weird. It was weird

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Speaker 1: to see a judge at sentencing saying things like I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't send my dogs to you to Dr Nasser. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just it's uncomfortable. I don't know why. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I wonder if I'm gonna get I know I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: get so much for saying this, But where is the

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Speaker 1: line with due process in this case? Yeah, Emily, I'm

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Speaker 1: so conflicted about this, and I totally totally hear you.

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Speaker 1: One of my biggest pet peeves as someone who cares

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Speaker 1: a lot about the criminal justice system and how that works,

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Speaker 1: is that when she was in courtroom, she said, our

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Speaker 1: constitution does not allow for cruel unusual punishment. If it did,

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Speaker 1: I have to say, I might allow what he did

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Speaker 1: to all those beautiful souls, these young women in their childhood.

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Speaker 1: I would allow someone or many people to do what

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Speaker 1: he did to others. And that's really not okay with me, right.

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Speaker 1: Sexual assault in prison is not a joke. It is

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Speaker 1: not some I mean, we it is a joke because

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Speaker 1: you know, we watch TV and movies. Don't drop the

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Speaker 1: soap is you know, supposed to be a ha ha line.

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Speaker 1: But our criminal justice system and our prison industry is

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Speaker 1: really really messed up. I don't think it's funny and honestly,

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Speaker 1: bridget We're not alone in this. Diana Moskovitz at Deadspin wrote,

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Speaker 1: even Larry Nasser does not deserve to be raped in prison,

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Speaker 1: and it's sort of underscores the conflicted feelings that a

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Speaker 1: lot of us have watching this, thinking, yeah, he should

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Speaker 1: definitely go to prison forever um, but she would be

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Speaker 1: Should we be relishing in the live sentencing process that's

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Speaker 1: turning into a courtroom performance? Yeah? I know the judge

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Speaker 1: took a lot of flak for her, you know, style

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Speaker 1: Claire in that courtroom, but I actually did love that.

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Speaker 1: To her critics, she basically was like, Oh, you guys

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Speaker 1: should watch me in court every day. I'm like this

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Speaker 1: every day. Cameras are no cameras. This is who I am.

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Speaker 1: So part of me was like, hey, dear girl, at

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Speaker 1: least she's being consistent. But it does it does raise

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Speaker 1: questions about do pro says and you know, what are

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Speaker 1: the ramifications of having a courtroom conversation like that, or

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Speaker 1: having our criminal justice system pushed to the limit in

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Speaker 1: this way, Like we might see a backlash on victim

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Speaker 1: impact statements or some other dramatic things might happen right

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Speaker 1: before you record a podcast about this particular subject, which

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about when we come back from this quick break.

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Speaker 1: And we are back and we're talking through the very

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Speaker 1: dramatic sentencing and case regarding Larry Master and his disgusting

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Speaker 1: long term abuse of women and girls in gymnastics. And

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Speaker 1: right before we started recording today's episode, we got some

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Speaker 1: more news. We noticed that he was trending on Twitter again.

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Speaker 1: So what heavened? So basically, right as we sat down

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Speaker 1: to record today's episode, we noticed he was trending. And

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Speaker 1: the reason why he's ending is because he's back in

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Speaker 1: court today and the father of three of his victims

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00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: basically physically tried to attack him in the courtroom. He

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Speaker 1: lunged at him, he had to be held down. He

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Speaker 1: asked the judge as part of sentencing if he could

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Speaker 1: be granted a few minutes alone with Nasser in a

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Speaker 1: locked room, and the judge was like, no, that's not

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Speaker 1: how this works. But clearly this is an emotional situation.

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00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: And you know the fact that a father had to

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Speaker 1: be restrained in a courtroom from physically attacking this monster.

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Speaker 1: I mean, really, it's it's really something well I understand it, right,

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00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,680
Speaker 1: I feel like every parent out there is like, yeah,

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00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: you know who also understands it, that judge, because when

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00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: asked if she was going to be holding this father

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Speaker 1: in contempt of court, she said absolutely not Again, I

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Speaker 1: understand it. It's interesting and yet at the same time,

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Speaker 1: this is exactly the kind of victim impact statement that

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court previously back in seven said was not

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Speaker 1: allowed because the risk we wrong from having people give

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00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: impact statements who weren't even directly impacted, who weren't even there,

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00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: like family members, might create some kind of prejudicial situation

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Speaker 1: that could increase the severity of sentencing. And when that

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Speaker 1: is the norm, could that be a problem. I hate

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00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 1: this because this is one of those times where my

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00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: lefty pie in the sky ideals are really challenged, because,

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Speaker 1: you know, I found myself watching this stuff. When I

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00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: saw the video of this dad attacking Larry. How was

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Speaker 1: it good for him? Right when I saw the video

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00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: of the judge bringing the SmackDown on him, I thought,

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00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: good for her? You tell him, sis, go get him.

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Speaker 1: I'm not someone who is a huge champion of our

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00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,080
Speaker 1: criminal justice system, and it just makes me think, where

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00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 1: does this feeling inside come from? Where I'm gleefully rooting

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00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: for all of these machinations of our justice system to

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00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: operate in a way that in other circumstances I might

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Speaker 1: not be so gleeful. Well, that's the thing. I understand

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00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: where our glee comes from. In this very specific case,

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Speaker 1: and in a lot of cases where justice is long overdue,

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Speaker 1: the concern is legal precedent. I hate to be the

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Speaker 1: spoiler of all things feminists. I really am not trying

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00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: to make that my niche on this podcast, are I swear?

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00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 1: I mean, is this something that could be problematic for

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Speaker 1: future cases that aren't dis cut and dry, that don't

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00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,719
Speaker 1: have someone pleading guilty on all of these crimes and

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00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: who's long overdue for a severe punishment. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Yeah, I think I just have to accept

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Speaker 1: that I'm someone who advocates for due process and really

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00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: really wants our criminal justice system to be fair and unbiased.

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00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: I just like it when sexual abusers get what's get

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00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: what's coming. I think I think it's like I have

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00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: to just accept that my primate brain or whatever, it's

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00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 1: just something that feels right, it's a discer have to

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00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: accept that it's attention and that I can't escape it,

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00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: and I just I think, like a lot of people watching,

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00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: we're in this moment of me too, this reckoning where

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00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: it feels like for so long we've been saying things.

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00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: I mean, these women and girls have been speaking up

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00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: for literal decades since nine nothing was done, and I

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00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: just feel like I can't pretend like the weight of that.

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00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: But it doesn't feel good, some cathartic moment of finally

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00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: he's getting his and I have to just except that.

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00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: I yeah, I mean I have to accept it. Well,

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00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: you're relishing in that pent uprage, which is totally the

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00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,320
Speaker 1: moment we have right now, and I get it. I

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00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 1: validate that. I recognize and respect that, and I also

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00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: want to validate and recognize and respect for those who

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00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: are looking at this saying I too feel a little

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00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: conflicted over it. It's okay to care about the process

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00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: and want to see this guy go down and and

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00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: get his you know, get what's coming. Um, I think

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00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: you hit the nail on the head. You can hold

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00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,479
Speaker 1: separate opinions at once. You can say he was a

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00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: monster and deserves to die in prison. It's not okay

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00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,320
Speaker 1: for a judge to make jokes about him being raped

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00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: in prison. Perhaps this unprecedented use of victims impact statements.

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00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: While powerful and I applaud them, you know, wholeheartedly, perhaps

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00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: it's fair to ask questions about what that means for

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00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: the criminal justice system. I think all of those things

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00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: can exist at once, and they have to, and I

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00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: think it's an important discussion for us to be okay having.

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00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: I do not want to be in a silo of

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00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: feminist purity tests where the only right answer is blindly

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00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: falling in line with supporting women without having the ability

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00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 1: to question what kind of precedent the sets up. And

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00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,440
Speaker 1: it's not an easy position to take, but I want

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00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 1: to validate that position for a lot of us who

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00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: are feeling a little conflicted over what's happening right now,

515
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: because you can believe in due process and believe that

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00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 1: women have been long overdue and getting real justice. So honestly,

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Speaker 1: I want to throw it to the listeners. I want

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00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: to know what you think. I'm sure y'all will tell

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00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: us all about it on Twitter, and I'm actually very

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00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,880
Speaker 1: curious because I don't think it's a black and white conversation.

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00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,640
Speaker 1: I do think there's room for tension and room for questions,

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00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: and I just want to hear what folks thought. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: please get in touch with us at mom Stuff Podcast

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00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 1: on Twitter, Stuff Mom Never Told You on Instagram, and

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00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: our inbox is always open at mom Stuff at how

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00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com