1 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 3: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. 4 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: And it is cactus Time here on the podcast. We're 5 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 2: going to be talking about what is I think arguably 6 00:00:23,320 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 2: the most iconic species of cactus. Joe and I were 7 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 2: actually having a conversation though off mic, trying to decide 8 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: exactly how we are going to agree to pronounce this cactus. 9 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,760 Speaker 2: We are talking about the sowarro cactus, but there are 10 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 2: different versions of the pronunciation floating around out there, and 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 2: I do want to apologize to my Arizona family for 12 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: not one hundred percent remembering how they were pronouncing it. 13 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 2: But I feel like I've heard it a number of 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: different ways in different places. 15 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 3: So I was like watching interviews with researchers who work 16 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 3: on this type of cactus, and what I was hearing 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:06,319 Speaker 3: most often then was so worrow. But then we look 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: it up and the dictionary says, well, you can either 19 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 3: do saguaro or sowara, and so there I'm just kind 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:16,880 Speaker 3: of lost. So we're going with sowarrow because I don't know, 21 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: it seems like we're splitting the difference. 22 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, but our apologies if we are doing it wrong here. Certainly, 23 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: if any of you out there have thoughts about how 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 2: it should be pronounced, do right in and we can 25 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 2: carry on from there. This is probably gonna be, I think, 26 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,200 Speaker 2: a two parter, and this is going to be part one, 27 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: so it's entirely possible our pronunciation will shift between part 28 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 2: one and part two depending on feedback. We'll see how 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: it goes. 30 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 3: Or maybe we should just use the scientific name the 31 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 3: whole time, because I think you've got a whole story 32 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 3: on that, right. 33 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about the scientific classification 34 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 2: for the suarrow. This is something I've been going out 35 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: to Arizona for years and seeing these things, and I've 36 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: always been impressed by them. But I think I should 37 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 2: certainly have read the scientist name before, but I've just 38 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: kind of let it pass through me, I guess, without 39 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 2: really thinking about it. And it wasn't until researching this 40 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,600 Speaker 2: episode that I was like, huh, it's called Carnegia, Gigantia 41 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 2: and Carnegia. Yeah, that's that's an interesting name for this 42 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: particular Because to be clear, we'll go ahead and get 43 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 2: into a little bit about it. We're talking about a 44 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: cactus that grows in the Sonoran Desert, and it's it's 45 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 2: probably the most defining example of the flora there the 46 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: Sonoran Desert. To remind everyone, I think we discussed it 47 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 2: briefly in one of our previous desert episodes, the Carshner 48 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,959 Speaker 2: Caverns episode. Actually, actually this is a desert that dips 49 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 2: more or less straight down from the southern limits of 50 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:50,359 Speaker 2: the higher elevation Mojave Great Basin and Colorado Plateau Deserts 51 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: and dives down around the Gulf of California on both sides. So, 52 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 2: all told, the desert ecosystem here covers parts of the 53 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: northwestern Mexican state of Sonora, Baja California, Baja California, sir 54 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: and then also parts of the southwestern US states of 55 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:09,240 Speaker 2: Arizona and California. 56 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 3: Yeah. So, actually, the geographic range of the Souarro cactus 57 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 3: is more limited than you might guess based on the 58 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 3: way it's used in say, movies and TV shows, where 59 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 3: if you watch westerns, you know, Western shows set in 60 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 3: the American West, you could be forgiven for thinking that 61 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 3: the suaro is basically everywhere west of the Mississippi. I mean, 62 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 3: it's just like it's in all of the Westerns, whether 63 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 3: they're said in Texas or Wyoming or Nevada or you know, wherever. 64 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 3: It's just like, Okay, we're somewhere. It's it's somewhere dry. 65 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 3: We're somewhere out to the west, and we've got this cactus. 66 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 3: The arms are pointing up, and that's how you know 67 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: where we are. 68 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and where in reality, it's not even all of 69 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 2: the Sonoran Desert. Really only slight extensions of the range 70 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: goes in California. Nothing on the Baja Peninsula, I believe, 71 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: mostly concentrated in a slice of territory that extends from 72 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: somewhat northwest of Phoenix in South just south below Guimus 73 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 2: in Mexico. So again, not even the whole Sonoran Desert, 74 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: but a sizable amount. But yeah, if you're watching Westerns, 75 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 2: and if you're watching old cartoons set and not even 76 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: old cartoons like in cartoons in general, or playing video 77 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 2: games that have a setting with the desert, you're gonna 78 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: you're gonna probably see depictions of the Suaro everywhere, even 79 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: in video like in Super Mario games in front of 80 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: the pyramids presumably of Egypt, though I guess it's some 81 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: sort of Super Mario world. But yeah, it would make 82 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 2: you think, oh, well, these things are just everywhere. But no, 83 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 2: it's even just a slim part of North America where 84 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: you'll find it. 85 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 3: I've actually got a note about suarrow in video games 86 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 3: to get to in a few minutes. Oh, I'm excited, 87 00:04:58,920 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 3: we'll get there. 88 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, again, this is like the poster child of 89 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 2: you know, realistically of Sonoran desert cacti, but then also 90 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: just the most icon iconic cactus period. You know, I 91 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 2: was I was in a yoga class earlier today, and 92 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 2: we're always doing a pose with our arms called cactus pose. 93 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 2: This is where your arms go up like this. I 94 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 2: guess it's kind of like a Some might say it's 95 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: more like a football goal sort of a scenario, but 96 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: generally refer to as cactus pose. And uh and I 97 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 2: didn't even think about it until today. You know, I've 98 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: been reading about about the Sorrow all week, and I'm like, oh, yeah, 99 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 2: it's a soorrow post basically, like that is what that is? 100 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: How iconic this particular species of cactus is. 101 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 3: Right, because cactus pose, you could just be a column, 102 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:47,279 Speaker 3: so it's great, or it could be like you do 103 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 3: a kind of twister tangle thing because you're a prickly 104 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 3: pear or something. 105 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, or you're like a ural cactus, like get down 106 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 2: and just make a ball. Yeah, it's like be more 107 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 2: specific yogis. 108 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like saying animal pose. 109 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: Yeahs. But this also brings up another thing about the 110 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,720 Speaker 2: suaro that's so iconic is that it lends itself very 111 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: easily to our anthropomorphizing it. You know, because they're tall, 112 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 2: they have a like, I don't want to overstate it, 113 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: like it's not like these things universally look like people, 114 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: and they are, you know, and they're often taller than people. 115 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: They don't always have the two arms, but they're close enough. 116 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,479 Speaker 2: And granted, you know, things don't have to be very 117 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 2: close for them for us to answerpromorphize them. But yeah, 118 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 2: we see them and we think of some sort of 119 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:42,039 Speaker 2: a towering human form, sometimes with limbs reaching towards the sky. 120 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 3: I remember drawing this cacti all the time when I 121 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 3: was a kid. I think in part because I liked 122 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 3: drawing desert scenes and they were sort of characteristic flora 123 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 3: of the desert. I you know, I wasn't making geographic 124 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 3: distinctions so I'm sure if I was trying to draw 125 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: the pyramids, I would draw it, you know, suaro cactus. 126 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 3: But also because of what you're talking about, because they 127 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 3: have that anthropomorphic quality, you could put sunglasses and a 128 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 3: hat on them, and I certainly did, but I would 129 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 3: go a step beyond and say, actually, they're not just anthropomorphic, 130 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 3: they're friendly. They're a certain type of anthropomorphic because of 131 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 3: the posture of the arms. Now, as you say correctly, 132 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 3: it's not just that they always have a central column 133 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 3: in two arms, but sometimes in nature they do. Sometimes 134 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 3: they got weirder arrangements, but you really do see that 135 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 3: two arm human arrangement out there in the world sometimes, 136 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: and because of the posture of the arms, they appear 137 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 3: to be either saying hello with one arm raised above 138 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: the other, or cheering with both arms raised, or maybe 139 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 3: doing the you know, the field goal like you were 140 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 3: saying the football field goal. 141 00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 2: I guess it's also cornholio arms, right, that's right, Beavis, Yeah, 142 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 2: I need to But yeah, either way, it is a 143 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 2: positive kind of posture. 144 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 3: It suggests a friendliness. Whether you're saying hello or cheering, 145 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 3: that's a that's positive emotion in the posture. So I 146 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 3: don't know. It's it's not the only thing in nature 147 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 3: that looks like a human standing up, but it's kind 148 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 3: of cheery in the way that it resembles a human. 149 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean there are a number of things 150 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 2: also playing into this. For the vast majority of cases, 151 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: they are not harmful to people. You know they are. 152 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,959 Speaker 2: There is a gentle giant sense to them. And they 153 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 2: are pretty much the tallest natural organisms within their ecosystem, 154 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 2: and so they really stand out, you know, they are. 155 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: They are the giants of their ecosystem, of the snorin desert. 156 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: I wanted a minute ago, you were talking about their 157 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 3: use as as like sprites or decoration in video games, 158 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 3: sometimes just in the background. But I was remembering this also, 159 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 3: not think you mentioned Super Mario World. I don't particularly 160 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 3: remember that, But I have a more obscure video game memory, 161 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 3: which is of a game called Bunks Adventure for the 162 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 3: Turbographics sixteen. I was playing a little off the beaten path, 163 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 3: and I was a kid. There were some This is 164 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,360 Speaker 3: a game where you play as sounds weird to describe. 165 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 3: I think you are a baby caveman who fights little 166 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: dinosaurs and you know, infected mammals and stuff by headbutting it. 167 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 3: Your head is your weapons, so you head butt things 168 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 3: and you can, you know, so you run around these 169 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 3: prehistoric landscapes full of dinosaurs. You know, let's put aside 170 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 3: the well actually of you know, dinosaurs and humans living 171 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 3: at the same time. But you're battling dinosaurs by headbutting them. 172 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: And one of the levels takes place in the desert, 173 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 3: and there are indeed these cactus enemies and they're clearly 174 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 3: siguaro modeled because they they've got arms like this, or 175 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 3: sometimes they flip the arms one up and one down, 176 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 3: but you know they're they're doing the bent arms like that, 177 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 3: and they've got the central column. And they also have 178 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 3: zany faces with yellow eyes going like whoa, whoa, whoa, 179 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: and you know, going oh with their mouth. They're kind 180 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: of doing the they're kind of doing the YouTube thumbnail 181 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 3: face or it's like wow, uh and uh. I think 182 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 3: if you jumped on them they would they would poke you. 183 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 3: So that's what But this burned in my memory as 184 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 3: a child. I'm sure when I was drawing cacti, I 185 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 3: was drawing those things. 186 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 2: Now they're not wearing sunglasses, but there does appear to 187 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: be a deret actyl that is wearing sunglasses here? Is 188 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 2: that true? 189 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, Okay, I don't remember. I think that's 190 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 3: just another thing to headbutt. Yeah, when when all you've 191 00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 3: got is ahead, the world looks like a nail. 192 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,840 Speaker 2: All right, So let's come back to this name. That 193 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: is a scientific name for the war the suaro cactus 194 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: Carnegia gigantia. All right, So gigantia makes sense, you know, giant. 195 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 2: Clearly this is a big cactus. But where do we 196 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: get carnegia? Uh, some of you might be wondering, Hey, 197 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: is this cactus by any chance named after Andrew Carnegie? 198 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 2: The sky is bored American steel industrialist of the late 199 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,200 Speaker 2: Gilded Age and early Progressive Age. 200 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:05,680 Speaker 3: That's what I was wondering. 201 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: Yes, and it is absolutely the case. It is absolutely 202 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 2: named after him. 203 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 3: And did he invent this cactus? 204 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: No? No, But the story is actually really interesting and 205 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: ended up sort of getting like two versions of the 206 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 2: story of the same story here. So initially I was 207 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: looking at this was an article by the New York 208 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 2: Botanical Garden. It's titled This is from twenty twenty, titled 209 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: the Suaro Cactus emblematic plant of the American West and 210 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 2: the New York Botanical Garden. This was by Barbara M. 211 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 2: Years and this is just a little history, you know, 212 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 2: brief history of the cactus and its Western classification. And 213 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 2: so I'm gonna I'm gonna roll through some of this here. 214 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:57,439 Speaker 2: So the cactus is described in the West, apparently first 215 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 2: by US Mexico Boundary survey bytanist and explorer Charles Perry 216 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 2: between eighteen forty eight and eighteen fifty three, though he 217 00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 2: did not bring a specimen back with him, but he 218 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 2: brings back word and writings about them. Okay, Then Cacti 219 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 2: botanist George Engelman expands on Perry's work and names the 220 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 2: new cactus serious gigantius. And I want to reference here 221 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 2: that there's another My main book that I turned to 222 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: research for this episode is The Soarro Cactus, a Natural 223 00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:35,319 Speaker 2: History from the University of Arizona Press by David Yetman, 224 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: Alberto Broquz, Kevin Holteen, and Michael Sanderson. An excellent book 225 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: that I highly recommend. And so I'm also going to 226 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: have some additional thoughts from them. But they include in 227 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 2: their book one of the images that Englman created of 228 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 2: this specimen of cactus, and it is it is pretty 229 00:12:55,440 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 2: amazing because the scale of the suaro is bonkers. They're 230 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: depicting a cactus significantly larger and taller than any known specimen, 231 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 2: and the authors of the book point out that the 232 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: picture is also quote a tad romantic. 233 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 3: It's funny because from this illustration, I do get the 234 00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 3: real sense of it. Like if you've never seen a 235 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 3: suarro before and you'd only seen this picture and then 236 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 3: you came across one, you could probably recognize it. You 237 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 3: may like, oh, that's what I saw on the picture 238 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,440 Speaker 3: in this book. At the same time, yeah, it does 239 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 3: seem a little oh, it feels a little beyond real. 240 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 3: It feels a little fantasy, like an illustration from an 241 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 3: alien planet. And it's got I don't know, something about 242 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 3: the angles are a little too regular here, like it 243 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 3: actually has kind of right angles in all the arms 244 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 3: and the arrangement. Just feel something's a little off. 245 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean besides the size, Yeah, yeah, I 246 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 2: mean he is I think leaning into the majesty of 247 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,360 Speaker 2: the suaro here and attempting to capture it and succeeding 248 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:00,680 Speaker 2: in capturing that while also kind of fudging the scale 249 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 2: of everything, and to your point, like the desert seeming 250 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 2: like an alien world, I mean, it does, you know, 251 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 2: And then that is the impression it leaves on. One 252 00:14:10,679 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 2: I toured while I was in Arizona, toured a Frank 253 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: Loyd Wright's house out there, and one of the things 254 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: they said was that that right would describe the surrounding 255 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 2: desert landscape as being like the bottom of the ocean, 256 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 2: and then looking out on it, he felt like he 257 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 2: was at the bottom of the sea. And so, you know, 258 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 2: those kinds of observations I think are valid in common. 259 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 3: That's kind of funny because I was thinking of this 260 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 3: illustration of the Suarro as being like a human made 261 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 3: antenna of some sort. So if it's the bottom of 262 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 3: the ocean, it's kind of the eltannan antenna out there 263 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 3: in the desert, which in reality was not an antenna 264 00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: but was a sponge absolutely you know, wildlife. So yeah, 265 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 3: that is interesting, though I feel like we want to 266 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: be careful at the same time that we don't sell 267 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: short how giant these things can get, Like this picture 268 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 3: might be bit exaggerated, but these things can in their maturity, 269 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 3: can become absolutely huge. They grow to like seventy feet 270 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: or something. 271 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a few numbers on that. So we're talking 272 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: occasional heights of twelve meters or forty feet, and fifteen 273 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 2: meters or fifty foot specimens are seen from time to time, 274 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,360 Speaker 2: and then the record this, according to that University of 275 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: Arizona book, was a twenty three meter or seventy eight 276 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: foot sorrow found near Cave Creek, Arizona, that was sadly 277 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 2: toppled by winds in nineteen eighty six. 278 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 3: Okay, so above seventy feet is not impossible, but is exceptional. 279 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 3: But it would not be unusual to get mature cacti 280 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 3: of the species that are like fifty feet right. 281 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 2: The ones in this image, though, I'm thinking, are like 282 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 2: one hundred and twenty feet. Okay, yeah, if I'm sort 283 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 2: of like stacking my people correctly, because the image shows 284 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: some little humans in the foreground here. Yeah, all right, 285 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 2: So pictures of the cactus are making their way back 286 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 2: to New York, and this is the point where, according 287 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 2: to that New York Botanical Garden article, enters New York 288 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 2: Botanical Garden founder Nathaniel Britton and fellow botanist Joseph N. 289 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 2: Rose and they decide at some point in this that, Okay, 290 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: this cactus really needs its own genus, and they decide 291 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 2: to name it after Andrew Carnegie and write to him 292 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: in nineteen oh two to ask his permission to do so, 293 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: and that article of the New York Botanical Garden. I 294 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 2: do really love the response, I assume via telegram that 295 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,480 Speaker 2: comes from Carnegie's secretary informing them that mister Carnegie quote 296 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: asked me to say that he is greatly honored by 297 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 2: the proposal and will do his best to live up 298 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: to it. 299 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 3: Can I be as grand as a cactus right now? 300 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 2: At this point, you may have a number of thoughts 301 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 2: about on this. You know, you might well find it 302 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 2: horrid to imagine that this long time din of the 303 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 2: desert that humans had known about for millennia should be 304 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,640 Speaker 2: named after a New York City industrialist, robber baron, if 305 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: you will. And I'm not saying that that judgment is 306 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 2: completely invalid. But on the other hand, Carnegie became a 307 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:20,680 Speaker 2: devoted philanthropist late in life, and funds from his fortune 308 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 2: helped establish for starters the Desert Botanical Laboratory, founded near Tucson, 309 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: and I believe nineteen oh three in addition to various 310 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:33,719 Speaker 2: other philanthropic venturers championing things like world peace, education, scientific research. So, 311 00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 2: in short, if you're looking at all the various monopoly 312 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:41,159 Speaker 2: maned tycoons of the day, Andrew Carnegie is arguably not 313 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 2: the worst by any stretch of the imagination. 314 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 3: I haven't done enough reading comment confidently on that, but 315 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,680 Speaker 3: it's true. My general impression is, yeah, that he's more 316 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 3: invested in philanthropy than some of the others of his time, 317 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:57,680 Speaker 3: and certainly than some of our time. 318 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, But you still might say, well, does he 319 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 2: deserve to have a cactus named after him? Maybe not. 320 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,600 Speaker 2: And the interesting thing is, I don't think even Carnegie 321 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: thought that a cactus should be named after him, Because 322 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 2: when I was well, when I finally got to the 323 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: part of the University of Arizona book that I referenced 324 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: earlier where they talk about the Carnegie situation, the way 325 00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: they tell it is that the Desert Laboratory in Tucson, Yes, 326 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: acquired much of its early funding from Carnegie, and they 327 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 2: invited him out to visit the site, and during his visit, 328 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: they showed him some suarros and told him that the 329 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 2: plant had been named for him in like a blatant 330 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 2: attempt to flatter him, and he did not take it 331 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: well that he saw this as just naked pandering and 332 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 2: was like, you know, how, why are you renaming this 333 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 2: Like surely this species was already known to humans. It's 334 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,919 Speaker 2: too you know, outrageous and obvious a specimen that you know. 335 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 2: He did not like this. He did continue to fund 336 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: the Desert the Desert Laboratory, however, and I'm assuming if 337 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: we're to sort of piece these two stories is together. 338 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: His secretary at least responds with a nice note later on, 339 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 2: but it sounds like in the moment he maybe did 340 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,200 Speaker 2: not see this as is a great thing that the 341 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: skeptics was being named after him, and then did not 342 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:14,479 Speaker 2: see why it was necessary and again saw it as 343 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 2: just naked pandering. 344 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 3: Well, I can appreciate not wanting to be pandered to 345 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,240 Speaker 3: in that way, And in my case, if somebody tried 346 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 3: to name a species after me, I think I would 347 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 3: be embarrassed. 348 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:26,360 Speaker 2: You heard it here, folks. If you're out there listening 349 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,880 Speaker 2: and you're thinking about naming a species after Joe McCormick, 350 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 2: do not do it. 351 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 3: That's going to happen. You never know I mean, I'm 352 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,920 Speaker 3: not gonna be mad, but I'm not asking for that. 353 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 2: What have you discovered though? 354 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 3: I don't know I'd find that unlikely, but who knows. 355 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,879 Speaker 3: Where were we though? But oh wait, so but doesn't 356 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 3: it retain the Carnegie name? So it is an issue 357 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,880 Speaker 3: like he didn't love this, but they was like, well, 358 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 3: we already had the place cards printed out. 359 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:59,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's stuck like that is still the Suaro's scientific classification. 360 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 2: You can anywhere you read about it. So I had 361 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,440 Speaker 2: read about it in the past, clearly when I'd gone 362 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 2: to various like desert botanical gardens and so forth, but 363 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: I hadn't really noticed it and questioned the name until 364 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 2: this research. 365 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, maybe it blends enough in with 366 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:21,119 Speaker 3: some other biological sounding words like carnegiea carnotaurus kind of 367 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:26,240 Speaker 3: or is it like carnos something sounds like meat or flesh. 368 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 2: I don't know, yeah, Or it's one of those things 369 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: where at first I was like is it named after Carnegie? 370 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 2: And then like, well, maybe it's not named after the 371 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 2: most obvious Carnegie out there. I'm just jumped to conclusions. 372 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 2: But no, the conclusion would be correct, all right, So 373 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 2: we already talked about just how tall this particular cactus 374 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 2: can get. It is indeed a desert giant, the tallest 375 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: and largest cactus in the United States, and the tallest 376 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 2: deser planned in the US as well. If you dip 377 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 2: down into the territory of Mexico proper, there is a 378 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 2: variety of related cactus called the Mexican giant cardone or 379 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 2: the elephant cactus, and that one can grow larger. Though. 380 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 2: This is one of those things where it's like, what 381 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,919 Speaker 2: is the tallest cactus now versus what is the tallest 382 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,119 Speaker 2: cactus ever? You can kind of go back and forth 383 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:31,480 Speaker 2: on that. But the authors of the University of Arizona 384 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: book note that the exceptional specimen from Cave Creek, Arizona, 385 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:40,480 Speaker 2: the one that was like seventy eight feet tall, This 386 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 2: would have dwarfed the oldest known living cactus species today. 387 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,000 Speaker 2: Presumably they're referring to an elephant cactus. Yeah, but still, 388 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 2: anyway you slice it, really tall cactus. They're the tallest 389 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 2: plants in there in their ecosystem, and yeah, they really 390 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,760 Speaker 2: stand out. They define their part of the Sonoran Desert. 391 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 2: And I remember being really struck by them the first 392 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 2: time that I visited Arizona because when you leave the 393 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 2: airport in Phoenix, they're basically there. Like, they don't just 394 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 2: dot the landscape outside of the city. You will find 395 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,159 Speaker 2: them throughout the Phoenix metropolitan area. 396 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking to their size and interactions with humans, maybe 397 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 3: this is a good place to mention. You know, there 398 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 3: is at least one famous souaro cactus related death which 399 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 3: I was reading about. I got there actually by way 400 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 3: of a song. So there is a song by so 401 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 3: I've read somewhere about the song. I went and listened 402 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 3: to the song. It's by a Texas band called the 403 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:44,920 Speaker 3: Austin Lounge Lizards, and it is a Western style ballad 404 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 3: that I think is somewhat satirical because it is talking 405 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 3: about this character sort of going out and suiting up 406 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 3: for battle against a cactus. And so it's telling the 407 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 3: true to life story of a guy named David Grundman 408 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 3: who was crushed by a falling souarro after he shot 409 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,400 Speaker 3: it in. I guess it was the year nineteen eighty one, 410 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 3: I think, because I was looking for a little more 411 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,399 Speaker 3: on this and I found a New York Times article 412 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 3: from nineteen eighty two which says, quote last February twenty seven, 413 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,240 Speaker 3: year old David M. Grundman took to the desert near 414 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 3: here with a shotgun and two rifles and began blasting 415 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 3: away at a twenty three foot tall Souarro cactus. The cactus, 416 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 3: mortally wounded by the gunfire, suddenly toppled over on mister Grundman, 417 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 3: crushing him to death. From that, it does kind of 418 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 3: sound like the whole thing fell over from the trunk, 419 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 3: But based on other summaries of the story I was reading, 420 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 3: it sounds more like one of the arms fell off 421 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 3: and like it fell onto his car and killed him. 422 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 3: So I'm not sure exactly which version of the story 423 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:53,879 Speaker 3: is correct there, but yet it is verified that it 424 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 3: in some way this guy was killed by shooting at 425 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 3: a cactus until it fell on him. 426 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 2: Well, you know, we do not take delight in human 427 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: death here on stuff will blow your mind. But yeah, 428 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 2: there is something about the story that maybe inspires morbid humor. 429 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,199 Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe it's the fact that it kind 430 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 2: of reminds one of Don Quixote going up against the 431 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: windmills or something, you know, And you know, it seems 432 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 2: like a on the whole very avoidable death as long 433 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 2: as you don't go out and start shooting at the 434 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 2: basis of cacti that are not asking for it. 435 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 3: It does raise questions, Yes, what did the cactus do 436 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 3: to provoke this? It doesn't seem like anything could have 437 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 3: could have been been justifiable. So yeah, so it seems 438 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 3: not advisable to go shooting at cactus, especially if you're 439 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 3: standing close to them. But yeah, not really at all. 440 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 3: I mean, why do you need to shoot a cactus? 441 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's part of this situation too, might 442 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:52,720 Speaker 2: be like a basic tendency to misunderstand not how big 443 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 2: they are, but also just how heavy they are. 444 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:57,080 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because you might assume they're they're kind of 445 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,119 Speaker 3: like soft and light or something. 446 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, or like a like an inflatable from a used 447 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,959 Speaker 2: car dealership or something. But now these are stout. They 448 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 2: can get quite heavy. They're like eighty percent water. I 449 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: believe that's the percent. I will come back to it 450 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,840 Speaker 2: here in a bit, but yeah, these are these are 451 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 2: these are hefty, hefty specimens. Now, before we talk more 452 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: about the sorrow, I wanted to talk a little bit 453 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 2: about cactuses in general, cactus origins and getting into why 454 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 2: the cactus unlike other succulents are native to the Americus. 455 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 2: So I'm not gonna spend a ton of time on this, 456 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 2: but basically, here's the here's the quick and dirty version. 457 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 2: So cactus origins in general date back to the mid 458 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: Tertiary period, so roughly twenty three to forty million years 459 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 2: ago we're talking about with this period, and it concerns 460 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,760 Speaker 2: a period when we had like a great drying out 461 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 2: on a kind of harsh earth. This great drying out 462 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 2: allowed the evolution of various life forms that could survive 463 00:25:56,520 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 2: and or exploit dry, cooler temperatures and low rainfall. So 464 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,439 Speaker 2: the authors of that University of Arizona book right that 465 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 2: this was a time during which the North American horses, 466 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 2: large South American birds, giant crocs, and prehistoric whales did 467 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 2: very well. And it's also when the oldest cactus species 468 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 2: seem to have diverged around thirty five million years ago 469 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 2: in South America, and this would have been long after 470 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 2: the split from Africa, thus the American isolation of the cactus. 471 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 2: So after these new this new type of plant life 472 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 2: gains a foothold, cactuses continue to spread and evolve and 473 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: fill new niches in response, to changing ecosystems, and eventually 474 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 2: we reach the point where today we have between something 475 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 2: like fourteen hundred and eighteen hundred and fifty cactus species 476 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 2: across one hundred and twenty five genera. You'll find cactus. 477 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 2: The numbers vary depending on who's doing accounting, but you'll 478 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,600 Speaker 2: find cactuses as far north as into Canada. But in 479 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: general they grow small and fewer the farther north you 480 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,080 Speaker 2: go after a certain point. And as we'll come back to, 481 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 2: part of this has to do with a cactus species 482 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 2: ability to survive freezes. But you know, cactuses come in 483 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 2: all forms. They fill various plant in inches, and they 484 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 2: range from very small and shrub like things to huge 485 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 2: treelike plants like the souarro. Again, these are the largest 486 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 2: of the tree like cacti. 487 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 3: Now, you mentioned that you know they have this sensitivity 488 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 3: to climate factors, and that's not only true for cacti 489 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 3: as a whole, but it is true even within a species. 490 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 3: So I don't know, I don't want to over undercut 491 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 3: you if you plan to talk about this later, but 492 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:49,879 Speaker 3: one thing I was reading about was that you find 493 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 3: very different growth patterns for swaro itself depending on just 494 00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 3: like what side of a mountain it's on. 495 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, for instance, I'm to understand the aerials space 496 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 2: different differently on on cacti than this suaros, depending on 497 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,639 Speaker 2: where they're growing. These are the little the little like 498 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 2: nubs that the spines grow out of. Oh okay, yeah, 499 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: so yeah, speaking of spines, obviously cacti differ from plants 500 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 2: and that they have these spines. These like when you 501 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 2: draw a cactus as a child, what are you drawing 502 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 2: on there? You're drawing the little spines, Like that's probably 503 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 2: one of the most. 504 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 3: Love drawing those. 505 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:27,800 Speaker 2: Fun. 506 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,359 Speaker 3: I would I would draw a cactus with like a marker, 507 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 3: the green part with a marker and then get a 508 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 3: little mechanical pencil and do all the spines. 509 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 2: M hmm. 510 00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that was fun. 511 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah. These are evolutionarily derived from leaves, which 512 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: like new shoots, flowers, and fruits on a cactus, they 513 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 2: grow out of. These areoles, which the authors of the 514 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 2: University of Arizona book describe as felty lumps on the cactus. 515 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 2: And yeah, they're distributed in different ways in different species, 516 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,560 Speaker 2: and even within a single species, things can laid out 517 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 2: a little bit differently. Except for a few primitive cactus species. 518 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 2: Cactuses generally lack leaves, though some species like the Prickly pair, 519 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 2: produce rudimentary leaves early in development. Leaves, though, are in 520 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 2: general too costly and too much of a water loss 521 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 2: for a cactus. There are also a few isolated cactus 522 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,320 Speaker 2: species that lack spines. Now with the soarro, the spines 523 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 2: are white, up to five centimeters in length and space 524 00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 2: generally around three centimeters apart. The spines, as it turns out, 525 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 2: produce rings as the plant grows and as it ages, 526 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 2: which botanists can then date. And why do cactuses in 527 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 2: general have spines? Well, well, I think we know the 528 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 2: most obvious reason, and that is to punish those that 529 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 2: would attempt to touch them, hug them, eat of them, 530 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: and so forth, to provide protection right mainly against herbivores. 531 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 2: But in addition to this, cactus spines boast various other 532 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,720 Speaker 2: purposes that are pretty fascinating. But also it may not 533 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,719 Speaker 2: seem as as obvious, you know, and of course all 534 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 2: these different things can work together at the same time. 535 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,239 Speaker 2: But they can provide shade against sunburn for the for 536 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 2: these plants in their desert environments, they can trap heat 537 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 2: and help with freeze protection in colder climates. In some species, 538 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 2: spines may also help in moisture harvesting. Like you read 539 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 2: about these different cactuses that basically like drink the fog 540 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: and so forth. Cactus fruits also tend to be spiny 541 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 2: as well, protecting the fruits until they've reached the point 542 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 2: where they can ripen. At least, so there are a 543 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 2: number of different cactus fruits that as they ripen, the 544 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:47,560 Speaker 2: spines kind of become less operational, so that the fruit 545 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 2: can then be eaten, the seeds can be spread, and 546 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 2: so forth. And though of course in this you get 547 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 2: into corresponding adaptations from all the organisms involved. You know, 548 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 2: some animals have spine management adaptations or techniques. Let's see, 549 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 2: on top of this, have cactus flowers in general, they 550 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 2: tend to be very colorful and stand out to attract pollinators. 551 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 2: I think we'll come back to some of that regarding 552 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 2: the souarro. And then also we should know that cacti 553 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 2: compensate for their lack of leaves by carrying out photosynthesis 554 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 2: through the skin and outer stems. 555 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 3: So this is why the stem itself of the cactus 556 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: is often green then that's because that's where the photosynthesis 557 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 3: is happening, is where the chlorophyll. 558 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 2: Needs to be right right, and also where the water 559 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 2: ends up being stored. So the authors of the University 560 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 2: of Arizona book point out that during the driest parts 561 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 2: of the year, the souaro's water it's excellent water conservation 562 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 2: is very obvious because they'll remain very green while upland 563 00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 2: trees and shrubs basically become just brown and dried up 564 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 2: in appearance, even though they're still alive. They just they 565 00:31:53,040 --> 00:32:07,960 Speaker 2: basically look dead, but the cactus is still green now. 566 00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 2: Souarros are columnar cacti, which means that their stem or 567 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,640 Speaker 2: trunk and sometimes their limbs resemble columns. You know that 568 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 2: they're pretty, uh, pretty vertical in their structure for the 569 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 2: most part, not counting you know, in the arms and 570 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 2: so forth. But like a column, it is a strong, 571 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 2: stable structure. Uh. The sorrow in particular boasts the system 572 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 2: of ribs. These are rod like woody structures inside the 573 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:41,080 Speaker 2: cactus that provides strength and durability and as a if 574 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 2: these cactus specimens are hurt or certainly after they die, 575 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 2: this this rib like structure remains and it begins to 576 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 2: create these very vivid, like spectacular scenes for the onlooker. 577 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 2: You will see examples of this, and it can take 578 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: on this, you know, almost kind of ghoulish appearance, because again, 579 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 2: already we look at these cac dyeing, we think about humans, 580 00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 2: and we compare them to humans, and now we see 581 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 2: something that looks like bones inside of them. 582 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 3: Looks almost like a cross between bones and veins. Yeah yeah, 583 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 3: but it does have very much the appearance unlike other plants. 584 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,959 Speaker 3: I can think of as the appearance of skin pulled 585 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 3: back from a human being and you're seeing the structures underneath. 586 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. Also reminds me very much of the monster 587 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 2: from I'm Married an alien from outer Space. 588 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, a bit of that. But Robi, 589 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 3: particularly what I was just saying applies to one picture 590 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 3: I put in the outline for you to look at 591 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 3: of one where it's the outer covering that originally had 592 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 3: the spines and the green flesh is not completely gone, 593 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 3: but it is sort of peeling away, and so there's 594 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,960 Speaker 3: a big window to look in at the underlying rib structure, 595 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: and it does look somewhat grotesque, and yeah, it looks 596 00:33:56,600 --> 00:34:01,400 Speaker 3: like it looks like one of those eighteenth cent illustrations 597 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 3: of like a you know, a dissection of a human 598 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 3: body and showing the layers underneath with the nerves and 599 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:08,560 Speaker 3: the veins and everything. 600 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, Now, columnar Cacti exists throughout the Americas, but 601 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 2: the the suaros survives far further north than any of 602 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,839 Speaker 2: them due to its ability to survive mild freezes. And 603 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 2: apparently a lot of this has to do with just 604 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 2: the mass of the of of this particular plant, and 605 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 2: they can because they can survive a few hours of 606 00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:34,600 Speaker 2: below freezing temps like this, and on top of, on 607 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 2: top of just like the pure mass aspect of it, 608 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 2: it seems like there are environmental aspects of their range 609 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 2: in the sonor and that allows them to sort of 610 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,840 Speaker 2: cheap by in colder months. So this has to do 611 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 2: with things like mountain shielding from certain wind patterns and 612 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 2: also passive heat storage and surrounding rocks. 613 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:52,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. 614 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm to understand it's kind of like the 615 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 2: gambit is, we may get freezing temperatures, but they will 616 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 2: not law quite long enough to kill the cactus and 617 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 2: specifically or. 618 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 3: To overcome our defenses against them. 619 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we mentioned like differences in the sorrow depending 620 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 2: on where it's growing. I've read that most northern Solaro 621 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 2: specimens have spines to protect the ends of their frost 622 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,720 Speaker 2: sensitive branches, so they'll be like extra spine growths there 623 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,400 Speaker 2: that are just adding. It's like a little sweater that 624 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:29,280 Speaker 2: they've made out of themselves for themselves, out of spines. 625 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 3: I was thinking, it's like putting covers on your outdoor 626 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,120 Speaker 3: water faucets during the winter. 627 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, except made out of spines. Now, I 628 00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 2: want to come back to that book, the Soorrow Cactus. 629 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 2: I want to read a quick quote from it. They 630 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 2: write that quote, since soarros are about eighty percent water, 631 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 2: we can accurately view them as standing drums of water 632 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,480 Speaker 2: that are effectively sealed from the outside. They point out 633 00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 2: that the water inside the cactus is heavy. It's laden 634 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 2: or spiked with heavy isotopes of hydrogen and oxygen, and 635 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 2: this actually ends up marking the tissues of organisms that 636 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 2: consume bits of the cactus, such as you know, fruits 637 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:16,000 Speaker 2: and nectar, in a way that has allowed scientists to 638 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,480 Speaker 2: discover how much moisture various desert species gain from the 639 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 2: sooro in particular. 640 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 3: Oh okay, so by you take an animal and then 641 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 3: you look at the relative amount of deuterium or whatever 642 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 3: in it's in the water in its body, you can 643 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 3: tell if it's been getting into this cactus as opposed 644 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 3: to just rain water or something else. 645 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: Right, And I have I have not yet taken a 646 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,879 Speaker 2: look at any of the specific studies that have done this, 647 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 2: but but it is. It is reference in the book here, 648 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 2: and I thought that was pretty fascinating. Like, you can 649 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 2: tell do they drink of the sooro? Do they depend 650 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 2: on it? There's like this, there's like this this water 651 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 2: tag in their body that lets you know that they do. Yeah, now, 652 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 2: speaking of that water, I think we may come back 653 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 2: to this in the next episode. But we need to 654 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:05,600 Speaker 2: stress that whatever you have seen in a cartoon or 655 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,879 Speaker 2: in an old Western is not a true indicator of 656 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 2: the potability of the water inside a saro cactus. I 657 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: have a vague recollection of maybe a Bugs Bunny cartoon 658 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,040 Speaker 2: where someone just comes up to one of these cacti 659 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 2: and just slices it and then drinks out of it. 660 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my memory. When I was a kid, I 661 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 3: knew I didn't know much about the desert. But I 662 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 3: knew a few animal facts, and I knew that if 663 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,399 Speaker 3: you're lost in the desert, you can drink water out 664 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 3: of a cactus. 665 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, That's that's what we were taught via our media, 666 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 2: and this is absolutely not the case. The water inside 667 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,320 Speaker 2: they're filled with water, but also high concentrations of acids 668 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 2: and alkaloids that falls short of like outright poison, but 669 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,400 Speaker 2: would prove disastrous for human consumption, even in or perhaps 670 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,600 Speaker 2: especially in a survival scenario. 671 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 3: What kind of disastrous like complex It just like gives 672 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 3: you diarrhea, Yeah, like that. 673 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 2: Sort of thing, Like do you on top of being 674 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 2: trapped in the desert and dealing with dehydration, do you 675 00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 2: also need like chronic diarrhea on top of everything else? 676 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 2: You definitely do not. So, yeah, the water inside the 677 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,799 Speaker 2: cactus is not good to go or anything like that. Now, 678 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 2: you know, We'll come back to the ways that humans 679 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 2: have used this particular species of cactus, because not to 680 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 2: say that it's off limits to humans. Humans have made 681 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,160 Speaker 2: use of the swallow cactus for thousands of years, and 682 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 2: there are various valid ways for them to take advantage 683 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 2: of its moisture. 684 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 3: But it's not just like cut and cut and chug. 685 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, no cutting chug, No sticking a spiggott in 686 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,800 Speaker 2: it and then drinking from it like a water fountain 687 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 2: or what have you. It's a lot more complicated than that. 688 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 3: Well, folks, we just looked at the time and we 689 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 3: realized we really don't have time today to get into 690 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,600 Speaker 3: some of the other stuff we were going to talk about, 691 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,760 Speaker 3: So we're probably going to save some of those sections 692 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 3: for next time and come back and have even more 693 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 3: to say about them. So join us again for part two, 694 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:02,359 Speaker 3: And this will be a great place to end part 695 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 3: one because it will direct extra special emphasis to the 696 00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 3: advice to not just cut and chug. 697 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, by all means, go out into the wild 698 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 2: and look upon these giants of the desert, but just 699 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,719 Speaker 2: don't mess with them, don't shoot them, don't try to 700 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 2: drink them. Let them do their thing and you do yours. 701 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,439 Speaker 2: And in the next episode we'll get into a little 702 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:28,759 Speaker 2: bit more about what their thing is, and we'll talk 703 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:33,640 Speaker 2: about the way that humans have utilized the suaro cactus, 704 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,280 Speaker 2: you know, throughout their cohabitation with these giants. 705 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, if you feel tempted to interact with them, you 706 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 3: can wave back to them. You know, you can mimic 707 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 3: their posture, you can cheer for them, you can tell 708 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:45,040 Speaker 3: them it's good. 709 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think Arizona State regulations would be okay 710 00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 2: with that, not so much the blasting or the harvesting. Right, 711 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 2: all right, we're going to close it out then, but 712 00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:57,279 Speaker 2: we'll just remind everybody out there that's Stuff to Blow 713 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,480 Speaker 2: Your Mind is primarily a science and culture podcast, episodes 714 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 2: on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Wednesdays we do short form episodes, 715 00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 2: and on Fridays we set aside most serious concerns to 716 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,360 Speaker 2: just talk about a weird film on Weird House Cinema. 717 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. 718 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:15,440 Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us 719 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest 720 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,879 Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just to say hello, 721 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,479 Speaker 3: you can email us at contact at stuff to Blow 722 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:30,359 Speaker 3: your Mind dot com. 723 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,400 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For 724 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:36,280 Speaker 1: more podcasts from My Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 725 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.