WEBVTT - Diane 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.240 I mean it was a huge story. It made, you know, 0:00:02.400 --> 0:00:08.960 national news when Diane Downs drives to the Springfield hospital 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:12.760 with those kids, and I think it shocked everybody just 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.440 because somewhere deep in their gut, it's like a mom 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.400 and kids that just that doesn't make sense. And the 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:23.280 story of the shaggy haired stranger didn't make sense either 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:26.720 at first. But everybody was willing to go along with 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.160 that for quite a while. And I think what really 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:37.360 sort of snapped things was the reenactment and having Diane 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:41.199 with the car and having the police ask her various questions, 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.720 and to reenact that moment, I think began the real 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:50.520 questions in that story. 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.440 The reenactment Eric Mason is referring to is a video 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.080 shop by Springfield Orgon Police. In it, they asked Diane 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:06.959 to walk them through the events of that night to 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:09.280 try and get a better understanding of what happened. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:11.200 We'll get to that in a bit. 0:01:11.280 --> 0:01:15.200 But first we have to ask who exactly is Diane Downs. 0:01:15.760 --> 0:01:18.200 How does a twenty seven year old mail carrier and 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.600 mother of three wind up at a Springfield organ hospital 0:01:21.760 --> 0:01:25.560 on a random weeknight having apparently shot her children and herself. 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.000 The story starts in Arizona. Her brother James, describes her 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:30.640 family life. 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:33.840 Describe your dad for me, help me understand your household. 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:37.800 Sure, I was thinking about this last night. The year 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.759 is nineteen sixty, right. They got married in the fifties, 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:44.240 and in the fifties and the sixties. It was before 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.560 the bra burnings. You know, there was a patriarch, and 0:01:47.600 --> 0:01:49.560 there was a matriarch, and there was a mom, and 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.760 there was a dad. The dads did this, and the 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:56.720 moms did this. The dads provided the moms around the house. Right. 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.160 One of the questions I had, well, what happens when 0:01:59.160 --> 0:02:02.280 there was conflict in your house? Well, there wasn't conflict 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.640 in my house because that was my dad's job to 0:02:05.680 --> 0:02:08.200 take care of the conflict that there ever was conflict, 0:02:08.520 --> 0:02:12.960 and his job was to resolve the conflict. And by 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.919 doing that, there was no conflict in the house because 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.320 he took it all. He took it all. It's truly 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.120 a patriarch kind of house. 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:27.080 Diane's childhood was, by most accounts, pretty normal, according to 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:30.400 her brother, although Diane herself claims that she was sexually 0:02:30.400 --> 0:02:33.680 abused by her father. She spent part of her childhood 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.239 in a Phoenix suppurb before she and her family moved 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:39.880 to a farm. So your mother always conferred to your 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:41.519 father on decisions. 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:43.400 Always that was her job. 0:02:43.960 --> 0:02:44.880 How big was your house? 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:49.160 But there was five? Yeah, I had a really fantastic 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:51.639 child that my sister had a fantastic child. And I 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:54.720 remember growing up on Charter Oak Road, and I remember 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.359 we had a block fence in our backyard and over 0:02:57.400 --> 0:03:00.840 in the right hand corner, Diane had a pigeons. You know, 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:03.400 I thought those were the coolest thing. Pigeons, you know 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.880 what I mean, there were homing pigeons. Yeah, you put 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.040 little bands on their their little foot and they fly 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:14.280 off and then they come back. You know, I was 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:17.040 whatting in third grade, right, So I don't remember a 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:18.680 whole lot and a lot, a whole lot about homing 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.680 pigeons at the time. Yeah, Diane was one of the 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.160 I don't want to say main driving factor, but I'll 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:29.120 use the words to basically leave Phoenix and move to 0:03:29.120 --> 0:03:33.520 the farm where she inevitably changed her life forever by 0:03:33.560 --> 0:03:36.880 meeting Steve. You know, we moved from Phoenix to the farm, 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.280 and out on the farm, it was a great time. Man. 0:03:39.680 --> 0:03:43.640 Diane had a horse and Kathy had a horse, and 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.440 John had a steer, and I raised pigs. I raised 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.160 pigs with my grandpa. As a matter of. 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:54.280 Fact, Diane started dating Steve when she was in high school. 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.600 Early on, she tried to establish a sense of standards 0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:00.760 with who she dated, but with Steve it didn't last. 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.920 I remember that I was in the sixth grade and 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:05.840 she was a junior in high school and Steve had 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:09.000 dropped out. But it's part of dating Diane or a 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:10.960 part of being with Diane. One of the things that 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.760 was requested was that you got to check back into school, 0:04:15.080 --> 0:04:17.920 and so he did start going to high school and 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:22.400 subsequently got kicked out because she was talking to somebody 0:04:22.680 --> 0:04:25.760 and he ended up beating the guy up. I actually 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:29.680 admired Steve growing in. I looked up to him, as 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:32.839 you know, he was a male figure, you know, and 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:35.680 I put him to the Lord Mayo. You know, he 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.000 was a manly man. You know, he took no guph 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.160 And this something Diane says, you know, basically, you know, whatever, 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:44.840 if there was another guy that was bugging her, he 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.240 would beat him up, and she felt safe and she 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:51.280 felt protected until there was nobody else to beat up. 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:56.680 Unfortunately, Steve's propensity for expressing his anger stopped with people 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.960 who were bothering Diane, and he began to physically abuse 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:00.920 Diane as well. 0:05:01.279 --> 0:05:06.719 Apparently those two fought. They would physically fight really often, 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.880 I mean punching to the face kind of fighting. 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:13.680 Diane briefly joined the military, possibly to escape her home life. 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:19.159 Diane joined the Air Force, probably to get away. But 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:22.760 Diane joined the Air Force and flag style, and she 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:24.960 was away for a little while, and Steve was there 0:05:25.160 --> 0:05:26.800 taking care of Christy. 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.240 What year was this about. 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:34.880 I was a freshman, so nineteen seventy four. Then Diane said, 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:37.240 you know, I can't stay away from the kids, and 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:41.159 so she got an honorable discharger whatever happens with the 0:05:41.200 --> 0:05:44.520 Air Force, and she came back. When Diane went to 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:46.920 the Air Force, Steve and I were playing pool and 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.520 there was a lady there, and he says, I bet 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:51.240 you I can get her to go to bed with 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:57.640 me as a conquest. And it's like, I'm a freshman 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:59.040 in high school, you know. It's like. 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:03.320 His wife's brother, right. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.520 Right, and she's in the Air Force and she's not there. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.080 And whether he did or whether he didn't, I don't know. 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.479 But I just know what he said to me. They fought. 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:16.479 They fought a lot, and one time when I was there, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:20.040 they were fighting and he was on her back, beating 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:23.920 on her back. I remember it. He didn't hit her 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.800 in the face. He was sitting on her. I think 0:06:27.800 --> 0:06:29.920 he was even sitting on her head, holding her down 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:33.120 like that and beating her on the back. It was 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.280 just it was pretty intense. 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.720 After her son, Danny's birth, Diane and Steve divorced. Steve 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.280 believed he couldn't be Danny's father since he claimed to 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:51.160 have had a vasectomy. Despite their divorce, Diane continued to 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.480 be on the receiving end of his physical abuse. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:57.640 According to James, later on she got tired of it 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:01.839 and she started fighting back, and so she would engage him, 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.840 but obviously, you know, she lost, so he shoved her 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:10.960 onto the bed, and at that point Cheryl came in. 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.760 So these took place in front of the kids at times, 0:07:15.480 --> 0:07:19.760 and it was never Diane starting the first engaging. It 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.080 was always her defending herself from him. And so she said, 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.400 you know, get Cheryl out of the room. And by 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.560 that time, Steve was sitting on Diana, punching her in 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:34.640 the face and blood was everywhere. Diane shouted to take 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:38.280 the kids and run, So we dragged Cheryl away and 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.520 got Christy and Danny and they fled. 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.000 It seemed inescapable. 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.120 Called the police, and by the time the Maricopa County 0:07:46.120 --> 0:07:51.000 Sheriff Deputy Sean Carnahan, Steve was gone. And when he 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:54.160 walked into Diane's living room he saw my bloody sister 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:58.440 sitting in the chair, his shoulders dropped, the bruises, her 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:04.640 broken nose, eyes, dark neck, ringing red. The deputy said, Diane, 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.240 my god, what happened to you? What do you think? 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:12.720 She said, It's like, he says, you've two been doing 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.320 this for six years now. He says, when will it stop? 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.480 And she just said, I don't know. You know, she said, 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.640 I divorced him a year ago. I thought it would stop. 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:25.560 Then I guess was wrong. 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.360 Eventually Diane was pushed to her breaking point. 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:33.600 Diane shot a bullet through the floor of her trailer 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:34.680 when he was there one night. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.880 The next Tuesday, judge signed a restraining order to keep 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:40.800 Steve away from Diane's home. To be sure that was 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:43.640 the first or the last beating he inflicted on my sister. 0:08:44.400 --> 0:08:47.079 Ten days later, he chased her down into the bathroom. 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.720 The restraining order forbidding him access to her home was 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.880 only a week old. She still wore the bruises from 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.200 the last attack. He didn't know she'd grabbed a gun 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:58.160 to defend herself. 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:01.040 The gun that Diane used to shoot through the floor 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.480 would later be the subject of a search by police 0:09:03.559 --> 0:09:06.360 as a potential murder weapon. We'll come back to that 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:13.520 in another episode. Not long after the incident where Diane 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.280 fired or shot into the floor, her mobile home caught 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:17.120 on fire. 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:21.320 When she flew to I think it was Kentucky. She 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:23.640 wanted to be a circuit mom. She had done that once. 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:26.080 She was trying to do it again on one of 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:28.959 these trips. The day or the maybe the evening of 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.880 the day that she left, her trailer caught on fire, 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:35.440 and you know, she filed an insurance claim. They paid out, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.680 and she later when things frayed between her and Steve, 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.079 turned him in for that and he was arrested and 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.600 charged with the insurance fraud and had to pay some 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:46.120 money back. 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.160 Everything she owned was gone. She and her children were homeless. 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:51.800 And this was a brand new mobile It. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:53.680 Was a brand new mobile home. Yeah, it was four 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.560 months old. They used to Stephen Diane worked at mobile 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:58.040 home manufacturing plans. 0:09:58.240 --> 0:09:59.719 Oh I didn't know this, Okay. 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:04.600 Yeah, growing up I called growing up twenties. Right, They 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:07.880 worked together in manufacturing plans. You know that way is Steve, 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:09.839 you could keep better tracks of her if he's working 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.440 with her. I remember that my sister came over to visit, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:15.880 and when she was over to visit, I had a 0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:19.280 guitar and she borrowed my guitar and she took it 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.880 back with her. And what I remember about the mobile 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:24.120 home burning is the fact that my guitar was in 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.840 the mobile home when it burned, and I never got 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:46.920 my guitar back. They actually labeled an electrical fire. 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:49.080 That's what the court said. 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.840 The labeled an electrical fire, but it came out that 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.040 that's not what it was. That came out in court, 0:10:55.120 --> 0:10:56.240 but that's not what it was. 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:01.560 How much an insurance pay out for for the mobile home. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.560 Says seven thousand dollars right there. 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.720 And back in nineteen eighty three. That was a chunk 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:08.120 of money. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:11.360 It was seven thousand dollars to repair the mobile. 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.160 Home, which wasn't used to repair the mobile that's correct. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.760 Where did the seven thousand Steve. 0:11:17.840 --> 0:11:24.360 Yeah, Steve, and again he crossed the line. So but 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.680 go moving forward. Do you wonder why Steve might have 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.680 testified that against my sister, Well, here's the reasons. You know, 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.959 Steve confessed to the crime of arson, rendering her homeless. 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:37.600 I'm putting her at his mercy. But Steve actually said 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:40.280 that they conspired together to burn her home for the 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:41.160 insurance money. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.440 Diane's living situation put Steve back into a position of 0:11:45.480 --> 0:11:48.640 power over her. She willingly gave Steve custody of their 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.600 children to prevent them from being homeless. According to James, 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.440 Steve leveraged this into a means of control, but. 0:11:55.520 --> 0:11:59.200 Everything she owned was gone. She and her kids were homeless. 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.160 This is after the restraining order and Steve says, hey, 0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:06.960 come live with me. Diane refused, but had to let 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:09.120 her children move in with him because she didn't want 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:11.920 him to live in the car. Right, So she kept 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:15.000 paying on the mortgage for the mobile home, and she 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.040 went to a person's named Karen's house and offered her 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:21.360 a spare room until the inner November of nineteen eighty two. 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.000 But the kids weren't welcome because you know, it's just 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:24.720 a bedroom and a. 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:28.800 House, and Karen was her coworker at the post office. 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.200 I believe so yes. Diane rented a two bedroom apartment 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.000 in December. Steve refused to let her take her children 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:39.000 until after Christmas. Diane had to go to his house 0:12:39.120 --> 0:12:41.400 to your children, and Steve wasn't letting go of that 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:44.520 control that he had of her. Every time she went 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:48.439 to their house, they fought. He wanted to remarry, she didn't, 0:12:48.720 --> 0:12:51.400 and this was in December of nineteen eighty two. The 0:12:51.440 --> 0:12:54.440 shooting happened in May of nineteen eighty three. 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:58.280 Diane eventually moved back into the mobile home along with 0:12:58.320 --> 0:12:59.640 her children. 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.440 And Janeyorry of nineteen eighty five, Strapped for cash, my 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.880 sister moved back into her burned out mobile home and 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:08.920 stopped seeing her children at Steve's, so she brought the 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.400 kids back to the home. Steve was calling my sister 0:13:13.440 --> 0:13:16.120 a worthless mother who didn't take care of her kids 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:19.600 to go see them. He said he was sick of 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:22.200 her having fun while he was burdened with raising the kids. 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.480 So basically, the kids are still at his house, okay, 0:13:24.520 --> 0:13:27.960 and she's living there, and he's really unhappy about that 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:31.760 because Basically, she's probably out having a good time and 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:33.880 he's having to take care of the kids. 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.040 Diane had been living for years under the constraints of 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.920 an abusive relationship. Although she had been unfaithful along with Steve, 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.000 she was now able to see whoever she pleased without 0:13:46.080 --> 0:13:50.160 immediate fear of reprisal. And Diane seemed to love male attention. 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:53.520 Over the course of time. You watch this plate out 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:58.200 all the time, and you when you see someone like Diane, 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.360 when you see so one trying desperately to get attention 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.120 and to move a certain way and to shake her 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:12.040 body a certain way, you think to yourself, Wow, there's 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:16.000 a person looking for attention, and do I want to 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:20.000 get inside the kill radius of that person? And I 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.240 could get blown up? It could blow me up, And 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.720 so a little bell goes off. I think in your 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:30.240 head when you're the person who's the target of a 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:34.320 Diane Downs, thinking to yourself, do I want to be 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.440 in the kill radius? Do I want a risk being 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.040 blown up? And the answer for most men is no. 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:45.440 But for these guys who all of a sudden attached 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.240 to Diane Downs, I think they understood it was a quick, 0:14:49.560 --> 0:14:53.680 easy gratifying way to spend the night. I think that's 0:14:53.760 --> 0:14:57.400 kind of what got them going. The problem is, I 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:02.720 think once they saw what kind of a mentally damaged 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.520 person that she was, they would run. I think I 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.560 think that happened over and over and over again. 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.840 Diane took a job with the Postal Service, where she 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.600 met Nick Knickerbocker. This was the relationship that many would 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:23.640 speculate to be the motivation behind the attempted murder of 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:24.320 her children. 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:26.960 My says, sir, was she was a she worked in 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.840 the post office. She was a rural route carrier. I 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:33.600 remember that was one of their fights in Arizona. I 0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:36.640 remember seeing this because Diane was a rural rock carrier, 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:41.000 and as a rural rock carrier, she would continually break 0:15:41.040 --> 0:15:43.760 the mirror off of the vehicle because you drive from 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.200 the right hand side, and she would continually hit the 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:49.560 mailboxes with the mirror and knocked it off. And Steve 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.560 would get so mad about that. 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.160 Why would he get mad, Well, because she broke. 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:55.600 The mirror off the car continually. 0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:00.560 Oh, I was thinking she was driving a rule routes. 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:03.800 On a road route, you you basically sub let your 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.600 own vehicle, Okay, yeah, and so yeah, driving out in 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.560 the country delivering mail basically, and she would hit the 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:14.400 mailboxes with the mirror. It wasn't a physical fight, but 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.000 it was it was like crazy. You know. He wasn't 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.840 very happy, and he made it known that she wasn't 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:24.520 that he wasn't happy. But that's what she did. In Oregon, 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:32.080 she transferred from Chandler where she met Nick, and you know, 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:35.200 and she moved up to Oregon, and my dad lived 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:38.400 in Oregon, and my dad was a postmaster in Springfield, Oregon. 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.200 And so she came up here to start her new 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:44.520 family with, you know, a start of new life. And 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:46.720 she was working in the post office, so she was 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:48.920 she was truly on her way, man, she was on 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.200 her way to getting her life. But this happened to her. 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.600 And and it's really, you know, sort of sad because 0:16:56.680 --> 0:17:02.480 I mean the reason, you know, talking about the post office, 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.480 and you know, it makes me think of Nick Knickerbocker, 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:07.880 the guy she met at the post office, the guy 0:17:07.920 --> 0:17:10.480 that you know, they say that everything got done for 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.520 if she did this fine the motive, yes, thank you 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:14.119 very much. 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.480 He was a letter carrier also, so they worked eight 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.800 hour shifts beside each other, would spent at least two 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:26.439 hours after that, oftentimes having sex at one location or another. 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:29.920 So they did paint a picture that when they were 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:32.879 in Arizona. Because he was a married guy and for 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:36.800 the longest time didn't tell his wife about Diane, she 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.560 eventually found out, and he still sort of carried on 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.960 and was not very forthcoming. 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.840 Diane was apparently obsessed with Nick to the point where 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.520 she would have done anything for him. There were unsent 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:52.480 letters and journals found in her apartment where she declared 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:53.320 her feelings. 0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:58.080 Seems to me that he was fairly nice looking, strong jaw, 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:04.200 kind of wiry hair, and this person that seemingly Diane 0:18:04.240 --> 0:18:10.080 down his head over heels about, and that she when 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.000 any of the male partners sex partners said to her, listen, 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:19.639 you're a really wonderful sexual partner, but I don't really. 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.520 I don't think I want to raise kids that would 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:24.520 absolutely crash her world. 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:30.520 And so I think with respect to Robert, the question 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.840 of whether or not he could deal with kids, you know, 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:35.920 was certainly a part of the narrative. 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.639 After Nick's rejection, in years of abuse from Steve, Diane 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.640 decided to leave Arizona. Her father was a postmaster in Oregon, 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:46.760 so she moved and was able to get a letter 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:48.360 carrier job in Springfield. 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.359 When you're an abusive relationship, it's the same question that 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:54.280 everybody asks everybody that's in that kind of relationship, how 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:55.919 long are you going to let this happen before you 0:18:56.040 --> 0:19:00.960 change something? But when you then she did changed something, 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:04.280 and that's when she moved to Oregon. She was changing 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:06.760 her life. She'd been in order for six weeks when 0:19:06.800 --> 0:19:10.520 she was attacked. She left Steve in Arizona. She left 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:13.840 her boyfriends. And I don't say Nick I said she 0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.160 left her boyfriends in Arizona. I mean, I can't say 0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:19.560 that she didn't have a thing for Nick. And I 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:21.560 can't say that Nick didn't have a thing for her, 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:25.879 because obviously they did. But she left him there because 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:30.520 really he was a married man, you know, and you're 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.480 not going to get together with a married man because 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:34.320 the married man is not going to leave his wife. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.560 That's just what married men do. 0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.440 And then in nineteen eighty three, the shooting occurs. From 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.320 the beginning, the press made every effort to find all 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:04.879 the information they could about the incident and about Diane herself. 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:07.639 The whole goal was to figure out who she was, 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.320 how long she had been in Eugene or the Eugene 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.320 Springfield area. So you had kind of this small army 0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:19.880 of media types, mainly local print and television stations, doing 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:21.720 their own things. So we were all sort of learning 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.280 from each other too. If Kval and Eugene had a 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:27.640 news broadcast that night with something a little bit new, 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.320 well figured I wish I had gotten that in first, 0:20:30.760 --> 0:20:33.600 but nonetheless put that into the notebook and just kept 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:38.440 on trying to compile our best ability to figure out 0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:42.920 who was involved. And you also had at the same 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:47.000 time the search for the assailant. That was still the 0:20:47.000 --> 0:20:52.359 official line that there's somebody out there, although even early 0:20:52.440 --> 0:20:54.840 on my feeling was and I think other media people 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:57.240 were having questions. 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:01.320 Although the police department wasn't very forthcoming with the details 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.600 of the case and the investigation, Diane herself proved to 0:21:04.600 --> 0:21:06.439 be very willing to talk to the press. 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.720 I was trying to find out who among law enforcement 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.280 was primarily assigned to the case, and would there be 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.920 a chance of getting an interview with these folks, And 0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:19.080 I was able to do that after a while, but 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.879 not early on, and the police were never open and 0:21:22.920 --> 0:21:25.240 forthcoming with reporters as far as I could find out, 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:29.520 Almost all the information as the case developed ended up 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:34.240 coming really out of Diane's mouth. She was a prolific talker. 0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:37.560 When we finally got a chance to sit down and 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.479 get her a story, and once she started, she just 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:42.119 didn't stop. 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:47.040 Mom and Dad said, quit talking. Then, do not talk 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:49.760 to the press. They are not your friends. Diane was 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:53.280 the most publicized and talked about individual in the state 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:56.760 of Oregon in nineteen eighty three, and a lot of 0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.000 that was due to her. I mean, as she would 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:00.920 talk to everybody. 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:05.320 Diane gave several interviews with the press and insisted that 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.560 she and her kids were attacked by a shaggy haired stranger, 0:22:08.840 --> 0:22:11.800 a description which over time has become a trope when 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:14.440 describing non existent suspects of crimes. 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:15.960 Do you think that helped her? 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:22.919 No, no, no, absolutely not. It did the opposite. You know. 0:22:23.000 --> 0:22:25.960 It's like and she was really the worst witness for herself, 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:30.640 you know, I mean, it's like she she would get 0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:34.119 up and she would talk, and she would talk, and 0:22:34.880 --> 0:22:37.240 you know, and they think it's because she liked to 0:22:37.280 --> 0:22:41.120 hear herself talk. Well, the reality is that she wanted 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:46.120 to have them listen. They wanted She wanted him to listen, 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:50.040 but they would never listen. They would never look for anybody. 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:52.919 She would go down there. You know, it's like, why 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:54.960 aren't you looking, Well, we're looking for the guy. We're 0:22:55.000 --> 0:22:57.159 looking for the guy, you know. But if then you 0:22:57.280 --> 0:23:00.959