1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,200 Speaker 1: There's a part of me that said, well, I don't 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: know if I want people to really know this about me? 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: You know, do I want people to know this? Will 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: people find out about this and maybe look differently at me? 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: I don't know that, but I certainly hope not. And 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: for that reason, I think it is time to go 7 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: ahead and tell the story. 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:24,360 Speaker 2: From iHeartRadio and doghouse Pictures. This is shock incarceration. I'm 9 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 2: Jeff Keating. Before Mark made one terrible decision that would 10 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 2: put him on the path to shock incarceration, he was 11 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: thriving in both career and love. He married Liz on 12 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: November seventeenth, two thousand and seven, and they began to 13 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 2: plan their future together. His twin brother, Dave continued to 14 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 2: build on his success as a broker, and Mark thought 15 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 2: about the money he invested with Dave in Jdsuniphase and 16 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 2: other stocks. 17 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: I think I gave about seventy grand that I had, 18 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: and I said, Okay, let me try to make an investment. 19 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: Hope the market goes and you think big picture of 20 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: thirty forty years from now, you hold on to it, 21 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: you don't worry about it. But that wasn't the case 22 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: with the stuff that I bought. I get it. Stock 23 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: market is volatile, right, It goes up, it goes down. 24 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: It is what it is. Ultimately, I lost most of it, 25 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,679 Speaker 1: if not all of it. I can't say I wasn't 26 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: upset with him when I lost money. I just wish 27 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: he would have stopped the bleeding. I look back at 28 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: it now, and there was no communication. It was just like, hey, 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: I gave you money, and I don't remember him ever 30 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 1: advising me. You know what, Mark, you should probably get 31 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: out of this and go into this. 32 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: After Mark's investments disappeared in Dave's portfolio, Mark got some 33 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 2: bad news about his twin brother. 34 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: I was at BMW and my friend Pete Caruso called 35 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: me and he said, Mark, what happened to Dave? I said, 36 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: what do you mean? He said, I just saw his 37 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: name in the paper. I said, are you serious? The 38 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: article is in a Bergen Record. So he read it 39 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: to me that David Lombardo arrested tampering with people's funds. 40 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: He was taking people's money and put it in his 41 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: own bank account. I mean he was stealing from his clients, 42 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: is what he was doing. You get greedy, right? 43 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 3: Oh? 44 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, I got away with this one, let me try 45 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: this one, let me try this other guy, and I 46 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: think he just got too fucking greedy and ultimately a 47 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: bit him in the ass. 48 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 4: Everybody was telling me it was really bad. 49 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,840 Speaker 1: It was one of the clients that did some investigating. 50 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: It was brought to the branch manager's attention, and then 51 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,640 Speaker 1: they ultimately did their investigation and found out there was 52 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 1: multiple occurrences where this was happening. 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 2: Darren Mark and Dave's childhood friend, remembers his reaction to 54 00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 2: the news. 55 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: I was completely shocked, blown away. 56 00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 5: I didn't have any I didn't. 57 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 3: I mean not to be an asshole, but I think 58 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 3: Mark was more capable of doing something like that than 59 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 3: Dave would be. 60 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: That's for sure. 61 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: I would never expect that out of Dave. 62 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 2: According to an August first, two thousand and seven article 63 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 2: in the Bergen Record, a grand jury in Mercer County 64 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: indicted David Lobardo on securities fraud, forgery and other charges. 65 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: This was his older brother Don's reaction. 66 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 4: And I was like, I can't believe this, Like, does 67 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 4: anybody else know? How is it that I didn't know 68 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 4: anything about this? 69 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: The article says Dave was accused of stealing more than 70 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty thousand dollars from clients between two 71 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: thousand and one and two thousand and three. He took 72 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: six checks he received on behalf of an elderly couple 73 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 2: worth one hundred and ten thousand dollars and deposited the 74 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 2: money in his own account. 75 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 4: I didn't understand how he could possibly do something like that. 76 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: I couldn't get it through my head. 77 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: Here's what else, the article said. Two years later, while 78 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: working at Bank of America, Lombardo allegedly stole twenty thousand 79 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 2: dollars from a client by forging that person's signature and 80 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: depositing a check for that amount into his own account. 81 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 2: His mother, Linda, took the news hard. It breaks my heart. 82 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 6: Because I raised three boys the same and they are 83 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 6: all different in their own way, and it raised Dave 84 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 6: to be like this. 85 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 4: I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, boy, 86 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 4: this is bad. 87 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: He's in a lot of trouble. 88 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: The state of New Jersey filed a seven count indictment 89 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: against Dave on August first, two thousand and seven. 90 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: I'm like, well, fuck, this is gonna be bad. 91 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,599 Speaker 6: I was a mess, you know. I love my boys, 92 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 6: especially them being twins. 93 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: It was. 94 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: It's hard being a mother. 95 00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 4: I asked him what was up, and his answer to 96 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 4: me was, it's cool, don't worry about it. 97 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,599 Speaker 2: Soon as Dave was arrested, his stepfather, Richard, sprang into action, 98 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: working as fast as he could to get him a 99 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: good lawyer. 100 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 1: He went down that day when he was arrested and 101 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: he was arraigned. I know my mother was there, my father, 102 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: my stepfather. He was brought down to the Burton County courthouse. 103 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,360 Speaker 1: My father knows a lot of people, so I don't 104 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: know if it was like, hey, you got to help 105 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: me out. This is my son, he can't go to 106 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: jail type kind of thing. He knows some high end 107 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: profile people in the political world. 108 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: With a solid team in place, lawyers negotiate a plea 109 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 2: do with the Attorney General and the victims of Dave's 110 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: crime to keep him out of prison. But Dave had 111 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 2: to pay fines to the state and restitution to his victims, 112 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,799 Speaker 2: and he didn't have the money. His sister, Judy remembers 113 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 2: it clearly. 114 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 7: The only reason that Dave did not go to jail 115 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 7: was because my dad, Linda made restitution. Luckily, thank god, 116 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 7: the person he embezzled from. Their family said, look, if 117 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 7: you make it right, they won't press charges. 118 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: Well, that's where my stepfather came in and ultimately paid 119 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:05,800 Speaker 1: it all and kept him from going to jail, wrote 120 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: him a check for two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, 121 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,159 Speaker 1: a big chunk of money. He did not go to jail. 122 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: He should have. I mean, the Attorney General of the 123 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: state of New Jersey was on him. I mean it 124 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: was a serious thing he was doing here. He got 125 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: blackballed from the industry. He'll never work as a stockbroker again. 126 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: Quite honestly, he should have gone to jail. 127 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 6: Day went to jail, but he didn't do any time. 128 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: He must have called my house. 129 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 6: My husband went down and he was going to be released. 130 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 6: And when I think back to how my husband bailed 131 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 6: him out. 132 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: My mother was extremely upset. Oh my god, this is crazy. 133 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: What a fucking mess. She's the sale too, What a 134 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: fucking mess. I can't believe he did this. My sisters, 135 00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: my brother Don, all of them were very disappointed and 136 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: upset that he put not only my mother and my stepfather, 137 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,880 Speaker 1: because don't forget my two step sisters, Vicki and Judy 138 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: that's their father, that wasn't even his blood son. This 139 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: is their inheritance that ultimately would be left to my 140 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: two stepsisters. So there's a lot of different moving parts 141 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: in here. I really stayed out of it for the 142 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: most part. I wanted it to all work out. But 143 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 1: I wasn't one of those guys that asked him a 144 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: thousand questions and why and who and what were you thinking. 145 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: I just said, he'll have to deal with it and 146 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: get through it. He did have probation where somebody stopped 147 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: by on a monthly basis. A probation officer actually checked 148 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: in with him to make sure you're doing the right thing. 149 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,239 Speaker 2: Dave still needed money to support the life he'd built 150 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 2: for his family, but his options were limited. So a 151 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 2: few months after his arrest, he went to his twin 152 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: brother Mark. 153 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: He asked me to help him out. He signed for 154 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 3: a loan. You know that I could get to start 155 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 3: this business. And what does anybody do they want to 156 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 3: help out there? Family? Right, your twin brother. So it 157 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 3: was a no questions asked thing. He told me, listen, 158 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: nobody's going to know about this. I'll make the payments 159 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 3: on the loan. Nobody'll find out about it. 160 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: When Mark agreed to help secure the loan, Dave began 161 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: writing up a business proposal and doing the paperwork required 162 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: by the bank. He needed Mark socis security number, driver's license, 163 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 2: tax ID, previous W two forms, proof of income, and 164 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: employment history. The bank needed it all to sign off. 165 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: Marked it it all without telling his fiance Liz. 166 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: I did it behind her back because my brother don't 167 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: pay for it. Don't worry about it. It's not going 168 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: to affect us. It's not gonna affect my credit. We 169 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: got to let him get on his feet. He'll pay 170 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: him back and we'll get back to square one. Because 171 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 1: I was sold in my head that that's exactly what 172 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: was going to happen. You couldn't tell me any different 173 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: at that time. I didn't care who you were. My 174 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: brother will take care of it and we'll be fine. 175 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: Jason spoke with Mark about his tough situation. 176 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 8: I've had a ton of conversations with him about what 177 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 8: happened and how would put Mark in a difficult position. 178 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:06,839 Speaker 8: And no matter what, Mark always had Dave's back, and 179 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 8: he would say, it's like, what am I supposed to 180 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 8: do with my twin brother. There's nothing I can do 181 00:09:11,760 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 8: to make this different, you know, which was heartbreaking in 182 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 8: a way because he Mark would have done anything day. 183 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 1: I didn't give a fuck about it, and I just figured, 184 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: he's my brother. Don't just have that brother lee relationship 185 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: and family relationship. 186 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:35,359 Speaker 2: But Mark soon learned money doesn't change people. It reveals them. 187 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: There is love, there's compassion, there's loyalty, but there's also 188 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: finances that fuck you. 189 00:09:43,240 --> 00:10:03,199 Speaker 2: You know, Mark tried to acclimate himself to Shock incarceration 190 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 2: and to all the crazy inmates in the bunk dorm. 191 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: Hainsworth we call them haines Worthless. That was his nickname. 192 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: I gave him that name. He was a troublemaker. We 193 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: had to do a lot of punishment from him. That's 194 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: happened on multiple occasions, multiple occasions just from him. You 195 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: want to do something to him, You want to retaliate, 196 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: that's your natural instinct, right, Fuck this guy, I'm going 197 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: to retaliate, you know, I'm going to do something. 198 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 2: During his years at Shock incarceration, drill instructor Clark saw 199 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: many inmates retaliate. 200 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 5: Inmates fighting each other very common because there's fifty four 201 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 5: guys living in a small area on half of each 202 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 5: other and they pay for each other. So ear pressure 203 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 5: was a hard thing, and sometimes they'd go the wrong 204 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 5: way and there'd be a fight. I don't know, as 205 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 5: we know, there's lots of gangs in jail, so I 206 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 5: made it well known that there's only one gag at 207 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 5: Lake Fiel, and we all were gray and we would 208 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 5: always win. But early out of the program, oh my god, 209 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 5: I've had inmates fight. 210 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,319 Speaker 2: Here's former shot inmate Ed Revere. 211 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 9: But we had two people fighting. They literally put a 212 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 9: mop head on one person and lipstick on the other, 213 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:10,199 Speaker 9: and they in the middle of the mess hall. They 214 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,680 Speaker 9: had to hug each other and sing the Barney song 215 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 9: I Love You, You Love Me. Crazy stuff like that. 216 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 2: Lakeview had many ways to deal with inmates fighting and 217 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 2: acting out of order, including the so called friendship log. 218 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: It was a six foot log and you'd have to 219 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: carry it, you and him anywhere you went. You go 220 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: to lunch, you know, we go to the messhall, we 221 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: go for dinner, you just have to carry it. You 222 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: got to go to the bathroom, hold on, you gotta 223 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: wait for your buddy to go in and take a piss, 224 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: you know, And they would have you do that for 225 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: three four days, sometimes a week. They fight, getting a 226 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: lot of to Cary. They're going to talk back to you. 227 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 5: Don't kick them out of the program, give them a 228 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 5: lot to carry I don't kick them out and just 229 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 5: make things a little more difficult on them. 230 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: Maintaining composure as others acted out of line was tough, 231 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,760 Speaker 2: especially with all the shit birds. 232 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 1: I think it was from the Bronx Spanish kid probably 233 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: twenty four to twenty five, like one of those GQ 234 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: type kind of guys thought it shit, didn't stink, and 235 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: the drill instructors picked up on it, and they didn't 236 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: like that attitude. And ultimately there's only so much time 237 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: that they're gonna let you get away with certain things. 238 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: And he came out of the mess hall said something 239 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: and within a matter of three seconds there was about 240 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: four correctional officers just literally had him up against the 241 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: wall and were pounding the pounding them. I just think 242 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: it was his mouth. It was either his mouth or 243 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:39,080 Speaker 1: a facial expression rolling his eyes, and that's all it takes. 244 00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: It's a very minimal minute, little thing you need to do, 245 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: and they can easily snap. 246 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 2: Garcia was another guy who seemingly never got on track 247 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 2: the total opposite of the arrogant by Erga. Mark cared 248 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 2: for the hapless Garcia and wished he could have done 249 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: more to help him out. 250 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: Garcia was also in my section, and I really tried 251 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: to help this guy, but he was beyond help. He 252 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: really was. He was a lonely kid from the Bronx, 253 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: and I have to be honest, I had a soft 254 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,559 Speaker 1: spot for this guy, but he was never really improving. 255 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 1: You know, his bed looked like a bomb went off 256 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 1: on it. His clothes were never ironed properly. And we 257 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: even had people that offered to help him and do it, 258 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: and I'll do it, I'll do it, I'll do it. 259 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: But he would get smacked multiple times right in the 260 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: back of the head. What you know what. They used 261 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: to love smacking him. I probably saw him get smacked 262 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 1: at least ten times. 263 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: Just two weeks after arriving at Lakeview, Mark and the 264 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: other Preshock inmates learned a valuable lesson. You don't ever 265 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 2: screw around in the dorm ever, not even on a holiday. 266 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: Even though it was New Year's Eve, it was still 267 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:51,920 Speaker 1: lights out, all right. We didn't get an extra five minutes. 268 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: We weren't staying up to see any ball drop. One 269 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: of the guys threw a couple bars of soap across 270 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: the dorm and caused immediate commotion, enough noise to bring 271 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: the drill instructor to turning on the lights. He found 272 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: the bar soap on the floor and basically, so, okay, 273 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: you guys want to fuck around, I'll fuck around. And 274 00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: they opened up every single window in that dorm. Then 275 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: we had these big fans, obviously for the summer, but 276 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: he put those on, so open up all the windows, 277 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: turned all the fans on and basically said, fuck you guys, 278 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: Happy New Year's and we froze our balls off all night. 279 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: Overnight lows dropped to the mid twenties as Mark struggled 280 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 2: to get sleep in the freezing dorm. The inmate who 281 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: caused this tortuous group punishment was never identified, though as 282 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 2: he tossed, turned and shivered, Mark hoped that the inmate 283 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 2: who brought this pain on the group learned that screwing 284 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: around is a no win situation. 285 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: You feel like a piece of shit, and that's the precedence, 286 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 1: they said, that's the way they make you realize it 287 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: doesn't matter what you do. We're going to do one 288 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: step above you. It doesn't matter what games you want 289 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 1: to play. We have better games to play, and they're 290 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: going to win in the end of the day. 291 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 2: It was about this time Mark wrote his first letter 292 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 2: home from Lakeview to family and friends. Not wanting to 293 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 2: alarm his mother, he held back on specifics to what 294 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 2: he'd seen and experienced, but as he signed off, Mark 295 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 2: made it clear shock was intense. Here's Linda reading an 296 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 2: excerpt from the first letter for drill instructors. 297 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,760 Speaker 6: Come on bus and start screaming at you and yelling 298 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 6: you losers, assholes and spitting in our face. 299 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:39,760 Speaker 1: This place is nuts. 300 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 6: I saw two guys get blasted in the stomach by 301 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 6: police for not following your orders. Crazy fucking shit here. 302 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 6: I will write again soon. I miss you all so much. 303 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 6: I love you all. Love Mark. PS. I don't fucking 304 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 6: belong here. My punishment doesn't fit my crime. This place sucks. 305 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 2: Ed also remembered what it meant to receive supportive letters. 306 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 9: It meant everything, so thank god. At that time in 307 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 9: my life, I had a very nice supportive girlfriend. She 308 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 9: actually would rate me a letter every single day. But 309 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 9: I also noticed there's a lot of people that didn't 310 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 9: receive letters, and at that time, being self centered, I 311 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 9: didn't really think about it, and now I look back 312 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 9: at it, that was really probably very dishurting. 313 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,280 Speaker 2: At this point, Mark was in a holding pattern in 314 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 2: what's called Shock Junior. His six month sentence wouldn't begin 315 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: until he got assigned to a newly formed platoon. 316 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: So when you go into Shock Junior, you get a 317 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: brown hat, and this is how you know who was 318 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: who in the prison. So anytime we left the dorm 319 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: in Shock Junior, we had a brown baseball cap on. 320 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: You had other people wearing green baseball caps. Those are 321 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 1: folks that are just started the actual shock program and 322 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 1: they're in the beginning stages. The people that are wearing 323 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: red hat are into their third or fourth month in 324 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,880 Speaker 1: the program, and then people that are wearing gold baseball 325 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 1: caps are in their fifth or sixth month. 326 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 2: The pt and discipline from the drill instructors didn't let up. Ever, 327 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: even when the inmates eight, it was strict, it was orderly, 328 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 2: and it was silent or else. 329 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 9: So going into the mess hall was always in an adventure. 330 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 9: Just that it's very quick paced and you cannot miss 331 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 9: a step, so it is you're in line you is 332 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 9: my d I would say, dicks to ass. So you're 333 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 9: literally your nose should be touching the inmate's back of forehead. 334 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 9: That's how tight you need to be. You come up 335 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 9: to the line, you take your tray, nice fork, and 336 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 9: now you have to move side to side, so you 337 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,160 Speaker 9: have to move your right foot so your left foot 338 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,199 Speaker 9: touches your right and you move your right foot to 339 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 9: your left, so you're going down the line in the 340 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,640 Speaker 9: head to be in with the guy next to you. 341 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 5: So they had to march through the line, holding up 342 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 5: their fingers on how much food they needed or what 343 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 5: the quantity they wanted because they knew everything they took it. 344 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: They had to eat. 345 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 5: If you're found talking, you had to stand, or you 346 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 5: had to take your tray outside and eat. 347 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: You cannot talk when I tell you, there's three hundred 348 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: people in this messhole, and you can hear a pin 349 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: drop if you. 350 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 3: Were caught looking up, and there were many of people 351 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 3: that were. They would get called out. They'd go over, 352 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 3: they'd smack the guy in the back of the head. 353 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 3: They'd make them stand on the table and eat his food. 354 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: There was probably three to four hundred prisoners in the messhole. 355 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 3: You know, different platoons sitting down, and to be that 356 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 3: one asshole that gets put up on the table and 357 00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 3: have everybody look, it's a pretty pretty embarrassing feeling. Talk 358 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 3: about just kind of kicking in the balls when you're 359 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 3: already down. 360 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,160 Speaker 9: You know, you go to your table and you stand 361 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,160 Speaker 9: there and you wait, and the drill instructor will say seats, 362 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,959 Speaker 9: and you all sit down at the same time, and 363 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 9: that's when the clock starts. You have ten minutes and 364 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 9: you must finish. Yeah, for some reason you don't finish. 365 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 9: The drill instructors would make you get on your knees 366 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,520 Speaker 9: and finish the food. As you're walking on your knees 367 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 9: back to the barracks. 368 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: Drill instructor Eggleston was walking up and down and he 369 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,920 Speaker 1: noticed that witting Brader had no beans on his tray. 370 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: He says, where's your beans? He says, sir, I don't 371 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: eat beans. He says, like, hell you don't. Yes, you do. 372 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: He says, sir, I don't eat beans. We walked out. 373 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 1: We went back to our dorm and drill instructor Eggleston 374 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: walks into the danger zone and calls witting Braider front 375 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: and center. So, yes, sir and runs down there, want 376 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: you to eat this couple of beans, and bottom line 377 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,160 Speaker 1: was witting braider did not eat beans and he refused 378 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: to eat them. So until he ate the entire cup, 379 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: we were all going to be punished for and we 380 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,400 Speaker 1: were just going to do push ups until he could eat. 381 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: I mean, your arms were literally falling, and then it 382 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: was jumping Jackson. He didn't eat them out, and he 383 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: didn't finish him out. Finally, this is the kicks on 384 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: the lot. You're hunched over because of the paint in 385 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,280 Speaker 1: your gut, your arms are flaring up, and this poor 386 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: dope is just standing there refusing to eat a little 387 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:08,959 Speaker 1: cup of beans. 388 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 2: Then there was the Myers cookie incidents. 389 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: He stole two cookies from the mess hall and they 390 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 1: did a food inspection when we came outside the mess hall, 391 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,200 Speaker 1: which was rare, but they did it because obviously they 392 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: saw something. And long story short, they took the two 393 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: cookies out of Myers jacket pocket. They called them up 394 00:20:25,920 --> 00:20:28,159 Speaker 1: front and smashed the cookies all over the ground and 395 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 1: made them meat it off the pavement. It was sad. 396 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,399 Speaker 1: It wasn't funny, it was fucking sad. It really was. 397 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: That human being was laying down there doing that, you know, 398 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: licking the pavement like a dog. 399 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 2: December moved into January and Mark and his fellow inmates 400 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 2: in pre shock still didn't have a platoon, meaning their 401 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 2: six month sentence had an officially begun. 402 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: Every day it is the same day there. It's like 403 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,679 Speaker 1: groundhog Day. They would have some activities like where they 404 00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:02,840 Speaker 1: would have a log pile outside that maybe had four 405 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: hundred logs or a rock pile that had six hundred rocks, 406 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: and they'd say, okay, let's go outside. We're going to 407 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: take that log pile and we're just going to move 408 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 1: it over here. And you just went over, grabbed the log, 409 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: brought it twenty feet and stacked it. And they would 410 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: kill two hours three hours of just manual labor. Oh 411 00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: my god. They were big on sweeping, sweeping the rocks. 412 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: I was sweeping the parking lot once a week. It 413 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: was probably the size of giant stadium. 414 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 2: When they weren't running several miles through blizzard like conditions 415 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,560 Speaker 2: or doing pt in the blistering cold, drill, instructors created 416 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,120 Speaker 2: a task for the inmates to accomplish together. 417 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 5: Everything they did was evaluated, so at the end of 418 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 5: the day they got a report card that we every 419 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 5: drill structer had to fill out, and that's what kept 420 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 5: them in the program or kicked them out. 421 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: When other platoons are getting ready to graduate and you 422 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 1: hear it, the drill instructs will tell you, oh, we 423 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 1: got a graduating class next week. You know, hopefully you 424 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 1: guys are up. And it's based on order of how 425 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: you come in. 426 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 2: But none of the men in Mark's dorm knew for 427 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 2: sure when they'd get their green hats and move into 428 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 2: the program. Like everything else at Shock, inmates are left 429 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,479 Speaker 2: in the dark, which kept them on their toes. 430 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: You find out the morning of they said, pack your bags, 431 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: you're going to I was in the rough Rider platoon, 432 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 1: so they said. They read the names Lombardo again mcvatt 433 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: and well, let's go back your shit. 434 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 2: Several years before Mark Lombardo found himself in Shock incarceration, 435 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 2: his twin brother Dave, had been charged with dozens of 436 00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 2: accounts of fraud and was finished as a stockbroker. Dave 437 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 2: now owed hundreds of thousands in fines, fees, and restitution. 438 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 2: After borrowing money from his stepfather to get back on 439 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 2: his feet, Dave turned to his brother Mark. 440 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: He called me and said, would you mind meeting me 441 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: at the bank on Franklin Turnpike. He was trying to 442 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: start his own company. He was trying to get a 443 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 1: business loan and ultimately get back on his feet because 444 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: he clearly needed some income. Landmark Consulting was the business 445 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: that he tried to create. One of the things that 446 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: they got involved in. It's a pretty smart product. A 447 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,359 Speaker 1: lot of kids, elderly people, they had problem swallowing pills right, 448 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: some people don't do it. It's a plastic cup and 449 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: it's a disposable and it had a little mechanism inside 450 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: the cup where you put the pill in it, and 451 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,480 Speaker 1: the way you drink it, it would physically force and 452 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: funnel those pills down your throat. It was actually pretty genius. 453 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 2: Each family member had a different experience with Dave asking 454 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: for help. 455 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 4: The only thing I think that keeps us tighter is 456 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,160 Speaker 4: that there was no money between us. I never lost 457 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 4: any of that like anybody else did. But as the 458 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 4: years went on, everybody knew that I didn't have any 459 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 4: money for anybody, and Dave never asked me for a dime. 460 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 6: It got to a point where you can't pull blood 461 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 6: out of a stone, you know, you would say, I'm 462 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 6: trying my best, I'm trying to work, I'm trying to 463 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 6: do this. My husband would give them all kinds of 464 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,720 Speaker 6: suggestions of well, maybe you should sell the house, maybe 465 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 6: you should get some smaller and never happened. 466 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 2: Mark thought the best way to support his brother Dave 467 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 2: was to go with him to the bank and help 468 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 2: him secure alone. 469 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: When we got there, it wasn't like we were going 470 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: there to pitch it. It was oh, okay, Dave, yeah 471 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: I have everything here, just need some signatures. It was 472 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 1: a matter of just doing the paperwork. It was form 473 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: after form after form, and just okay, sign here, okay, 474 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: sign here. And I did not know what the fuck 475 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: I was signing. I had no idea. Holes I knew 476 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: was it was helping my brother Dave get some money 477 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: so he could possibly start a company. I didn't know 478 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: if I was the actual what are they called the 479 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 1: Garran tour of the loan? Was I a co signer? 480 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 2: Dave walked out of there with a sixty thousand dollars 481 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:19,879 Speaker 2: check and all bank correspondents moving forward went to his house, 482 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 2: not Marx. 483 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 3: And then there was another small loan at a different bank. 484 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 3: I want to say that was only for about thirty 485 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 3: that I got for him. Again, I didn't even question it. Whatever, 486 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 3: I don't care, no big deal of just do you 487 00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 3: handle the payments. 488 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: We'll get through that. And then there was one other 489 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: small loan he got from another bank for forty thousand. 490 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 2: By twenty eleven, a few years since Mark signed for 491 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,200 Speaker 2: the loans, he hadn't given it much thought. 492 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: Liz and I we were living together at the condo. 493 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: We had just gotten married. 494 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:51,959 Speaker 10: No, I did not find that out until after we 495 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 10: were married, because he did eventually tell me, but he 496 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 10: said he signed the papers before we got married. 497 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 1: It was a couple of years after I had given 498 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: him the signal to get the loan. I started to 499 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: receive letters in the mail. She got the mail, you know, 500 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: and what's this? What's that? I don't know, what's take 501 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: a look at it. And that's when I found out 502 00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,240 Speaker 1: that David wasn't paying the loans back. 503 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 2: Dave had not been making payments for several years. On 504 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 2: top of that, he'd increase the debt extended in Mark's 505 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 2: name with his signature as guarantor. Just as Mark and 506 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,479 Speaker 2: Liz were beginning their life together. 507 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: She was livid. She was livid. Okay, so we can't 508 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: get a loan if we want to buy a house, 509 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: we won't be able to have a good credit. So 510 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: our dream of having a family and kids has ultimately 511 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: just gone down the toilet because you co signed a 512 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:42,879 Speaker 1: loan for your brother that you didn't tell me about. 513 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 10: There just had their handout in every different direction and 514 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 10: no one was saying anything. I was so confused. And meanwhile, 515 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 10: they have a brand new car, they have a brand 516 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 10: new marble kitchen, saltwater pool for the dogs. I was like, 517 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,639 Speaker 10: when does this end? Can you slap everyone else in 518 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 10: the face over and over and over. 519 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: I trust my brother. 520 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 4: Our family is the good and bad of sticking with it, 521 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 4: not really getting to the point just hoping that everything's 522 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,479 Speaker 4: going to be okay. I think everybody is just wanting 523 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 4: everything to be okay and hoping that it is, and 524 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 4: in a lot of cases not doing the hard work 525 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 4: to get there, not doing that accountability that you're talking about. 526 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 4: It isn't there to get through to the other side 527 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 4: of a problem quickly. It always kind of drags on. 528 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 4: And that's a lot of the problem. 529 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 1: When Liz, ultimately she's thinking, who the fuck did I marry? Right? 530 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: I mean, this guy's willing to go on the line 531 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: and help his brother out, but not a tell me 532 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 1: about it or be think that it's never going to 533 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: be an issue. This is an issue. This is very serious, 534 00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: very serious. 535 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:01,400 Speaker 2: Mark and Liz were left to figure out how he'd 536 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 2: become buried in debt by his twin brother, so they 537 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 2: headed to his sister's house to see if Judy and 538 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 2: Pete could help him understand the legal and financial implications. 539 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: Judy and Pete's home is where I went, and I 540 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 1: sat at the kitchen table when I first got these letters, 541 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,360 Speaker 1: and I said, Hey, what the hell's going on? And 542 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:26,440 Speaker 1: Pete knows how long. He's very smart, very brilliant man, 543 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: and I always respected his opinion, and he was the 544 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: first person I reached out to. Pete was the first 545 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: person I reached out to to say, Hey, what am 546 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:35,360 Speaker 1: I doing here? 547 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 7: Mark and Liz are sitting there, I believe, sitting looking 548 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 7: to buy a car, and they're like, well, you can't 549 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,600 Speaker 7: get approved for this because you have this credit card 550 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 7: maxed out on this hand. And they're like, what are 551 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 7: you talking about? I don't have this card. I don't 552 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 7: have that card. 553 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 2: Unfortunately for Mark, all of the correspondents were going to 554 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 2: Dave's house. 555 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: I signed for it. I didn't hear anything about it. 556 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 3: Again, I wasn't getting letters were going to his address, 557 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 3: No payments were being made. So my wife got the 558 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 3: mail at our condo saying that it was from the IRS. 559 00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: About these bank loans. 560 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 3: And you know, all my mind, they're going to start 561 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 3: garnishing my wages, et cetera, et cetera. 562 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 7: You know, come to find out, Dave has taken out 563 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,960 Speaker 7: multiple credit lines and credit cards in Mark's name. Easy 564 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 7: thing to do if you're a twin, right, Like what 565 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 7: are the security questions? Mothers made a name, you know, 566 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 7: like all these things. 567 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: That once any bank gives you a business loan, what 568 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,479 Speaker 1: are they going to give you business credit card? Oh? 569 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: You need it. You got to have a business credit card. 570 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: So he got two fifty thousand dollars credit cards from 571 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: the loan that we did the fifty grand. So now 572 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,000 Speaker 1: you went from ninety to one hundred and ninety, you know, 573 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:46,880 Speaker 1: one thousand dollars. 574 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 10: Well, it should have been a red flag if you 575 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 10: lost a security license from stealing from elving clients. So 576 00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 10: that should have been the first big, gigantic flag. I 577 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 10: think he was like an opportunist and just speaking. 578 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 11: Shock Incarceration is a joint production from iHeartRadio and Doghouse Pictures, 579 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 11: produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers are Mark Lombardo, 580 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 11: Tommy James, Noel Brown, and Jeff Keating. Written by Jim Roberts, 581 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 11: Tommy James, Chris Rogozzo and Jeff Keating. Story edited by 582 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 11: Jim Roberts, Edit mix and sound design by Lame Krauts. 583 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: From Herd's Creek Productions. 584 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 11: Music composed by Diamond Street Productions, accompany by Tyler Greenwell, 585 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,640 Speaker 11: Danny Wattanas, Sean Thompson and Spencer garn Special thanks to 586 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 11: Trinity Investigative Group and Mark Lombardo's family and friends who 587 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 11: contributed to the podcast.