1 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to Creature feature, the show where we 2 00:00:10,039 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: look at the world through the eyes of animals and 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 1: discover what, if anything, it means to be human. Today 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: we'll be talking about shape shifters, tales of terrific transformers 5 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 1: who have some shocking before and after picks, what's got 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: two thumbs? And started life out as a tiny donut? 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: Can snails take laziness to a freaky new level. Humans 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: and animals on the lamb. How would you escape the heat? 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: Discover this and more as we answer the age old 10 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,200 Speaker 1: question how many legs does a frog have? Hint it's 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: not always. For one of the most incredible transformations occurs 12 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: in the womb. Two separate gam meets combined to form 13 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: a new life. It's an incredible inspiring process, and we 14 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: all begin as a tiny mouth butt doughnut. That's right, 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: at one point in your life you were a simple 16 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: little taurus a mouth and an us and a digestive tube. 17 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: And while suddenly find the anus to be a distasteful topic, 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: it's actually vitally important for all life on Earth. That's 19 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: why it's one of the earliest structures to be formed. 20 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 1: So there you are a little more than a macaroni noodle. 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,319 Speaker 1: What's next. There are three basic layers. The crust well 22 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: the ectoderm, which eventually becomes the skin, hair, nails, and 23 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: nervous system. The mantle, which is really called the mesoderm layer, 24 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: which will become the longest circulatory system, skeleton, and muscular system. Finally, 25 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 1: there's the core, which is actually called the endoderm layer, 26 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: that will become the digestive system liver, pancreas, and lungs. 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: What's so interesting to me is that when you look 28 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,240 Speaker 1: at the early embryos of animals, like those of fish, lizards, birds, mammals, 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: and primates including humans, they all look kind of similar, 30 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,920 Speaker 1: like weird little alien worms. In fact, humans and other 31 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: lung having animals start with gill slits, things that in 32 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: fish would become gills, but in human and other terrestrial 33 00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: animals become the inner ear structure. In fact, gills are 34 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: pretty versatile, and insects, it's believe gills evolved into wings. 35 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: Fetal development is a kind of weird micro evolutionary journey. 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: Many atavistic traits, meaning traits that are an evolutionary throwback, 37 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: are president in embryos, like tails and gills, and humans 38 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: or teeth and chickens. It's a stunning reminder that we 39 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: all oozed out of that same primordial chili, and that 40 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: we're not really a redesign of our fishy ancestors, but 41 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,360 Speaker 1: a fun, up cycled, reclaimed animal. Joining me on the 42 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 1: show today is Anna and Sharene of the excellent podcast 43 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: Ethnically Ambiguous. Welcome you guys, Hello, thanks for having uh 44 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: of course super excited. Are you guys ready to hear 45 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: about some weird animal? So I like to go on 46 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: an imagination journeys on the show. Um, so if you 47 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: guys could transform into something, what what would it be like? 48 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: What would be you know, animal vehicle anything? Just like 49 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 1: my cat? Cat? Yeah, that was quick time. Why a cat? Um, 50 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 1: I'm just very cat like and I like to sleep 51 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: and I like to just kind of like roll around 52 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 1: and like rub up on people's legs. That's yeah, I've 53 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: noticed that about you be a little jarring. I'm incredibly unprofessionally. Um, 54 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: maybe like a puffin because they can swim and they 55 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: can fly and they can walk nice and I would 56 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: have the best of all worlds. Yeah, you can also 57 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: fit a lot of fish in your beak. Yeah, you 58 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: love that. Yeah, I love I love some good snack poucher. 59 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 1: Have a backpack here. Um, well, I would probably be 60 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: a C squirk because so we've actually talked about um 61 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: this before on the show. It's this little uh marine animal. 62 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 1: It's a tunique, which is a type of Yeah, well 63 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: it's weak, it's a it's a wiggly jelly animal. Um so. 64 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: And they go through this process called DRetro aggressive metamorphosis 65 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: where they start out as a free moving tadpole and 66 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: then it turns into it's essentially just a stationary tube 67 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: that attaches to irock and passively filter feeds for the 68 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,320 Speaker 1: rest of its life. M Why did you want to 69 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 1: be back? Because it's fun to be lazy, to just 70 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 1: be like fed all day and chill out. Yeah, big, 71 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 1: just stuck on this tube, stuck on this to um. 72 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: They don't have an exoskeleton. That's what they are invertebrates. 73 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: Oh my god, how could I Why did I forget 74 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: that word for so long? Invertebrate. So there's a species 75 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: of C snail that goes through a metamorphosis similar to 76 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: the C. Squirt um and it never has to eat again. 77 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: Um So, it's called called a giganto Pelta cessiya, which 78 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm sure I pronounced that. Fine. I think everybody's gonna 79 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: tweet at me, like like it's actually pronounced frank um, 80 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: like like new to branches sound like they should or 81 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: look like they should be pronounced new to branch. But 82 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: I learned their new to branks bran. Yeah, frank the 83 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: new to BRNK you right exactly. Um. So it's a 84 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: sea mollusc who lives near Antarctica, near the thermal vents 85 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: on the ocean floor. Uh. They go through something called 86 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: crypto metamorphosis, which is, uh, it's a change that we 87 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: can't see on the outside, but inside the snail is 88 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: going straight to nightmareland. It's well, it sounds like my life. Uh. 89 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 1: So once the snail gets big enough, it's digestive system 90 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: stops growing. Um, a huge esophageel gland forms uh. Forcing 91 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,479 Speaker 1: aside the snails teeth, stomach, and intestines. So humans we 92 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,039 Speaker 1: have esophageel glands. It's part of the digestive system. It 93 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: produces mucus for the esophagus and for lubrication and to 94 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: protect it from stuffun acid. So you've always got snot 95 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: in yeah, um and the giganta Pelta chess oya. These 96 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:20,040 Speaker 1: glands take on a very different function. Bacteria will start 97 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: to grow in the huge, bloated glands that now take 98 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,160 Speaker 1: up most of the snail's body. Um. The New York 99 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: Times makes a really disgusting analogy quote to make a 100 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,280 Speaker 1: human comparison. Imagine growing from an average sized adult to 101 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: one thirty to sixty ft tall with a giant sack 102 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: of bacteria living inside you. I don't think I will 103 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: New York Times like giant sack of bacteria inside me? Well, blee, 104 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: that's that sounds like a it's a weird insult, like 105 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: your giant sack of bacteria. It's like, uh so uh 106 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 1: the snail will stop eating. At this point. The bacteria 107 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: living in it's esophagel gland are in a symbiotic relationship 108 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 1: with the snail. The bacteria produces energy that the snail 109 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: cell can use. It's just like, oh, I see okay, 110 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: it's off of the sac Basically, yeah, like ever needs 111 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: to eat again, It doesn't need to eat it anymore 112 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: because like the bacteria is doing all the work. And 113 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: then in exchange, the bacteria has a cool sack to 114 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: live in. Yeah, I feel like we should do that 115 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: as humans and stop eating just like have bacteria like 116 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: eating for us, just be giant sacks of bacteria. That 117 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: that would be a that would be like if Wally 118 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: really wanted to take it to the next level, like 119 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: to show the truth of like humans just being bacteria 120 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 1: sacks that don't need it, that are like attached to 121 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: the walls of the ship and don't need to really 122 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 1: eat anything. I could see that being like a new 123 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: dietary thing in l A like, oh now I'm actually 124 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,800 Speaker 1: not eating because I have that bacteria sacing site. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 125 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: you know, just healthcare, I don't know, I don't know. 126 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:06,960 Speaker 1: Definitely a privatized company sort of thing, like you would 127 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: like make little handbags for it or like little like satchels, 128 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: like like people with like fashionable little like iPad cases 129 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: right right right, like like some kind of Oh this 130 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: is my bacteria. I learned it from Goop. Yeah, I 131 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: got a really cute patch for it on Etsy. That's 132 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: that's disturbing. That's I'm sure it's going to happen though. 133 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: Um So this is actually a similar feeding strategy to 134 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: another animal that lives near thermal vents. Called get tube worms. Also, 135 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: can I curse? Yes, okay, cool, but I have not 136 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: been cursing. I can continue. No, you're fine, you're fine. Um, 137 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,959 Speaker 1: I mean like we're talking about giant sacks of bacteria. 138 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,199 Speaker 1: So I feel like, you know, if that doesn't make 139 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: you go like, oh like that, I just wanted to 140 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 1: confirm because I felt silly. No, you're fine. Um so 141 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: uh the so the tube worms, which sound about as 142 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:12,559 Speaker 1: lovely as they are. They look like big, colorful PVC pipes, 143 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: but they're they're live animals. Uh, they're cute, little existence. Yeah, 144 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: just like just being a pool noodle. You know, I 145 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 1: don't know that sounds like that sounds like how big? 146 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: Heard these worms pool noodle size? Oh they are? Yeah, 147 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,719 Speaker 1: they're pretty big. Holy crap. Yeah, cald worms not like 148 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: anacondas or snakes like eels kind of right, eels are 149 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: pretty big. Eels are big. But animals. I don't know 150 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: how to break this to you guys, but animals aren't 151 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: named based on the size category that they're um. But 152 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: so they're immobile, which uh, scientists call sessile, which I 153 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 1: don't know why they have to have to make complicated words. Yeah, 154 00:09:57,000 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: especially with one with so many says it's bad for 155 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:04,480 Speaker 1: podcasts styles. Um. So they also get all their energy 156 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 1: from symbiotic bacteria living inside their tubular walls. Are these 157 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: are both of these bacterias that grow inside these animals? 158 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: Are they foreign bacteria? Are they like found there like 159 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 1: produced in the body? Yeah, so there they are, except 160 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: their foreign bacteria that will uh grow inside the body. 161 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,959 Speaker 1: So everyone has a bacteria living inside of them. Um. 162 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: But it is technically it's not something that like came 163 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: from you're like when you're formed as a baby. It 164 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: didn't come from so that it's not your bacteria. It's 165 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 1: for in bacteria that just sits there forever. Yeah. I 166 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: mean it's like it's in an indosymbiotic relationship with you, 167 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 1: which means it's symbiosis symbiosis but happening inside your body. 168 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,319 Speaker 1: Um yeah, it's actually what so like like babies haven't 169 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: developed a lot of gut bacteria yet, they can be 170 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: really sensitive, uh and they can't like sort of ingest 171 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: certain things, and um, like that's one of the reasons 172 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, it's until you like not to eat fish 173 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: or something. Yeah. Yeah, because like you got back to 174 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 1: it's also why you shouldn't get Yes, you should not 175 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 1: get you shouldn't get an enema or unless it's like 176 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: medically necessary, because like if people do that, like you 177 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: can actually flush out the good bacteria in your intestine, 178 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: and people become addicted to those, so they like really 179 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,319 Speaker 1: like to have clean little whistle down there. Apparently, Yeah, 180 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: they get addicted to it because it's the feeling is 181 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: like weird, it's like a rush in a way. I 182 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: don't I mean I've never had one, but get high 183 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:48,319 Speaker 1: on feeling there butts. But I also but I also 184 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: think enemas are more common depending on what kind of 185 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: sexs you like. M I I mean that makes sense. 186 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,080 Speaker 1: I think for that though you don't you wouldn't need 187 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: to have like an X stream one. I don't. I 188 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: don't want to, like you don't want a full colonoscopy 189 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: before you but I feel like I don't know. I mean, yeah, 190 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,319 Speaker 1: it's but I think people sometimes do these like cleanses 191 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: to another bad one is like like the cleanses that 192 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:20,600 Speaker 1: make you have a lot of diarrhea, Yeah, like those 193 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,960 Speaker 1: detox Tayah celebrities Like yeah, yeah, Like like I it's 194 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: basically just a bunch of mineral oil that makes me 195 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: crap for twenty four hours. That's it's not good for you. 196 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: That's shooting yourself. That's that's like, that's eating ketoba too much. Actually, 197 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: Ketoba's okay, I take that back. Um, taco bell, What's 198 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: what's what's a What's a good one? That the one 199 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:49,360 Speaker 1: that always gets me? I feel like in and out 200 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: always gets me. Actually, yeah, I don't know what it 201 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: is about in and out, but it gets me. Gets 202 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: me every time. It's always a It's like it's not 203 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 1: even a gamble at this point. It's just like I 204 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 1: will I will have to sit on a toilet, yeah, 205 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: and sort of think about the decision I've made and 206 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: usually regret it for a while, and then I forget 207 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: about regretting it, and then I go back to in 208 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: and out. That's how I am a taco Well, yeah, 209 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: I always forget. It's like, within fifteen minutes of finishing food, 210 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: I'll be like, yeah, like, oh jeez, this is a 211 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: it's a It becomes a situation and you're like, I 212 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: don't why did I put myself in this intestinal situation? 213 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: And then you're and then it's like a week later 214 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: you're like, but you look so good. I don't know. 215 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: It's like it's like a toxic relationship where you're just like, 216 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's like I've forgotten how what you do 217 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 1: to my intestines. That's why we need our bacteria bags. Yeah, yeah, 218 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: they'll solve everything. Yes. The freakish gigantic pelticis soil bacteria balloon, 219 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: as well as the giant tube worms, maybe guides to 220 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: how all complex life on Earth form. The symbiotical relationship 221 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,959 Speaker 1: between these animals and the bacteria that feels them may 222 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 1: be analogous to how early eukaryotic cells acquired mitochondria, the 223 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: powerhouse of the cell. A leading scientific theory proposes that 224 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: early eukaryotes acquired a separate organism, a mitochondria, and somehow 225 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 1: engulfed and entered into an endosymbiotic meaning symbiosis, but inside 226 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: of you relationship with them, the mitochondria became the organelles 227 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 1: that are so vital for complex life. I want to 228 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: talk a bit about the incredible woman who discovered how 229 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: giant two worms are able to survive with no plainly 230 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:39,720 Speaker 1: observable digestive system, living in the dark depths of the 231 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: ocean where no energy producing sunlight can reach calling Kavanaugh, 232 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: who is currently an eminent professor of biology at Harvard, 233 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: was a first year graduate student at Harvard in nine 234 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: studying biology. She was out of lecture at the Smithsonian 235 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: Institution where the curator of worms was talking about the 236 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:02,120 Speaker 1: mystery of the two warm At this point, Kavanaugh jumped 237 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: up and shouted out, well, it's perfectly clear they must 238 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: have sulfur oxidizing bacteria inside their bodies. At first, she 239 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: was dismissed and told to sit down. Fortunately for everyone 240 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: in the warm biology world, she wasn't the sitting kind 241 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: of gal. She discovered the symbiotic connection between energy producing 242 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 1: bacteria and the two barns. More recently, she's challenged the 243 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: current theory of the beginning of life that started with 244 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: a soup of ingredients being struck by lightning. Instead, she 245 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: thinks that perhaps the thermal events were the perfect place 246 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 1: to provide fuel for nascent life. She says the idea 247 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: makes sense because some of the oldest forms of free 248 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: living bacteria shows signs of being heat loving organisms. She's 249 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: made the scientific community rethink some basic assumptions. Thank goodness, 250 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: she didn't sit down. Well, maybe she sat down at 251 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: one point, you know, like when her legs got tired. 252 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: You all stay sescile in your chairs. It's a you know, 253 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: revolutionary biology group joke. Yeah. Anyways, we will be right 254 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 1: back after this message. Do you ever wonder where the 255 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 1: term slick Willie came from? Not former President Bill Clinton, 256 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: but Willie Stunton, the slickest bank robert, trickster and prison 257 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: escape thee ever to walk the streets of New York. 258 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: By some, he was considered to be a Robin Hood 259 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: like figure, stealing from the rich to give to well himself. 260 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: He never murdered anyone, and in fact was purported to 261 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: carry an unloaded gun to his bank robberies worried that 262 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: someone might get hurt. Other than his genteelness, he was 263 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 1: remarkably well slippery guy. He was put in prison in 264 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: one only to escape a year later, smuggling a gun 265 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: and holding a prison guard hostage until he could get 266 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: his hands on a ladder to escape. This was his 267 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: most brute force type of escapade. As he became increasingly crafty, 268 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: he and an accomplice tried to rob the corn Exchange 269 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: Bank and Trust company. Willie was disguised as a postman. 270 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 1: This attempt didn't work, though they later broke into the 271 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: bank through a skylight, successfully FBI record state. Stutton also 272 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: conducted a Broadway jewelry store robbery and broad daylight impersonating 273 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:14,200 Speaker 1: a postal telegraph messengers. Stutton's other and does guises included 274 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,120 Speaker 1: a police officer, messenger, and maintenance man. Usually arrived at 275 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: banks or stores shortly before they opened for business. Stutton 276 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: was caught again in nineteen thirty four and sentenced to 277 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: twenty five to fifty years in prison. A year later, 278 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: he escaped via tunnel, but was caught the next day. 279 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,199 Speaker 1: This time he was sentenced to life in prison, but 280 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: two years later he escaped again, just as a prison 281 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: guard when the searchlight landed on him. Yield. It's all right, 282 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: so nobody has stopped him cool. He even made an 283 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,880 Speaker 1: attempt to escape from prison by using a dummy head. 284 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 1: Over years, he carefully crafted a shockingly lifelike head in 285 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,200 Speaker 1: hand out a plaster. He used plaster he likely stole 286 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: from the prison dentist, real human hair collected from the 287 00:17:56,920 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: barber shop, real eyelashes, and paint from god knows where 288 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: He put the head on his pill in the hand 289 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: on the bed sheet to make guards think he was 290 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: still tucked in bed while he was actually trying to escape. Unfortunately, 291 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 1: his escape was foiled by a group of bumbling himmates 292 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: who are also trying to escape and who are much 293 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:18,120 Speaker 1: less artful at it. When animals are feeling pinned down 294 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: by the fuzz, they often have incredible escape strategies, including 295 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 1: transforming their bodies into amazing disguises. To see the absolute 296 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: master of this, We're going to go underwater to me 297 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: to really really slick Willie. Do you guys want to 298 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: see the yet the curious I was literally just thinking, 299 00:18:37,119 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: how does one like did the paper machee? It's plaster 300 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: and it's actually really good, and I feel like maybe 301 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,399 Speaker 1: he uh uh, he might have used his own face 302 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: as a model, so there it is. Whoa, yeah, I 303 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: think he will probably like he had a buddy like 304 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: put it over his face and like dipped his and 305 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: made like a plaster casting. Um, it's pretty impressive, Yes 306 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: it is. And it's like also the paint job is 307 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,360 Speaker 1: pretty good too, Like it's it's hard to do sort 308 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,720 Speaker 1: of human skin tones. I don't know how he did that, 309 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:16,959 Speaker 1: but like apparently he took years to do it. This 310 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: was on the Antique Road Show and it's like yeah, 311 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: it was like it's also made out of human hair 312 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: and eyelashes. I wish I remembered. Probably they're probably something like, well, 313 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: if it was in its original condition, that would have 314 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: been two million dollars. But because there's a small scratch 315 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,120 Speaker 1: under the left nostril, it's actually costing you money. Yeez. 316 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: Classic Antiques Road Show, God, I love I mean I 317 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: used to love that show and like just but there 318 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,159 Speaker 1: was something about like watching the light go out of 319 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: an elderly person's eyes as they realized their antique furniture 320 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:58,239 Speaker 1: like that they refurnished, like it is now worthless. I 321 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's art. I think it's like I wan, 322 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 1: they're always like yeah, I don't think this is real, 323 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: and just I've never seen good. You could watch it 324 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,679 Speaker 1: for hours because the stuff is so random. It is. 325 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 1: It's like it's like here's an eighteenth century dill though 326 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,520 Speaker 1: and now here's like actually they don't know. But then 327 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: they'll be like people who come in and say I'm 328 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: gonna watch now, they'll be like people come and go 329 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: like this is a letter my great great grandfather wrote 330 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: to my great great great whatever grandmother on Hitler Stationary 331 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: right when they broke into his office and saw that 332 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,040 Speaker 1: he'd been killed, and you're like, what the fuck? How 333 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: did you get that? But also like hippy Wheel, well, 334 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: my grant is my grandpa was a Nazi. Also like 335 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 1: who like goes in Tyler's office. It sounds like, I 336 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 1: guess I'll just write a note to my wife, just 337 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: like yeah, Hitler's finger, Hitler needs no underpants. Yeah yeah, 338 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: comes to sail. That's probably worth more money. Oh yeah, 339 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: it's like poopy underpants. Gross. So there's actually there's this 340 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: reality show I've been watching called Hunted. Um there's a 341 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: BBC version and I guess the US version, but I've 342 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,879 Speaker 1: been watching the BBC version and it's like you have 343 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,280 Speaker 1: to like go off the grid. Uh so uh, like 344 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: they make people like, oh, you're being hunted by the government, 345 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:25,159 Speaker 1: and like we're going to use all of these like 346 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: like and they have so many like like those CTV 347 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: cameras in the UK, Like I feel like they're even 348 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: more highly surveilled than here in the US, although well 349 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:39,119 Speaker 1: maybe just in terms of the cameras, um, all the 350 00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: cameras we can see that is if you but like, 351 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: um uh so they have to. Like the goal is 352 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:49,400 Speaker 1: like they'll win like a half million dollars if they 353 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: can make it through a week without being found after 354 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: being dropped off. And it's really creepy show because like 355 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: barely any of them can do it, because it's like 356 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, look how much the government can 357 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: like surveil you, like they can. Have you seen an 358 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,880 Speaker 1: episode where someone made it? I haven't, No, not. They 359 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,120 Speaker 1: always get caught pretty much. I haven't seen. I mean 360 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: I am not through the season yet, so maybe someone 361 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: makes it, but so far everyone's been caught. And it's 362 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: stuff like like we got your like riding on the 363 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: train and we got a picture of your face through 364 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 1: like a camera, and like what if you just like 365 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: stay put the whole time? Well, I mean I thought 366 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: about that, like if I like, I feel like, I 367 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: mean I don't know how much prep time they're given, 368 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 1: but I feel like I would give I would find 369 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,520 Speaker 1: a body double and then have them do all the 370 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,960 Speaker 1: things like take like you get like a bank card 371 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: that you're allowed to use, but then they can track 372 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: the bank cards, so every time you make a withdrawal, 373 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: they can see where you are so like you can't 374 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: use cash. I mean you can withdraw cash from the 375 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: A T M. But right exactly. And it's it's crazy 376 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 1: like how much they can like they can read like 377 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: license plates and like like they have drones that they 378 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: can use and like he it's just I feel like 379 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 1: the show is meant to be like see how cool 380 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: like government crime fighters are, and to me, it's just 381 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: like this horrifying dystopia of Like to me, it's like 382 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: if you like never commit a crime or need to 383 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: do this in real life, and you will get caught, 384 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: right right, do you think the guy with the plaster 385 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: head what's his name, slim, Willie Stutton, Willie Stunt, do 386 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: you think he would have been caught? I don't know. 387 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: He was pretty like he had the kind of charisma 388 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: where he was able to tell prison guards like it's 389 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: okay when he was escaping, oh my god, like because 390 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,080 Speaker 1: he was like dressed as a prison guard and like 391 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: a spotlight was on him, He's like it's all right, 392 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: nothing to see here. It almost sounds like, I mean, 393 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: not not the same caliber of crime, but like Ted 394 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: Bundy almost was like charismatic enough to multiple times and yeah, 395 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,120 Speaker 1: like he literally jumped out of a window, like out 396 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: of a court one time. Yeah, and was fine and 397 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,159 Speaker 1: was it like it was gone for like a week. Yeah, 398 00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: the he was able to like be his own lawyer 399 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: and without anything and then and the judge was like, 400 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: I'd hire you. It's crazy messed up? How like it's 401 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: missed up? How far a charismatic white guy, Yes, yes, 402 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: like a sort of mediocre white guy can get away 403 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: with so much, like just by being like no, no, no, 404 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: it's okay. And he's got like piles of humans heads 405 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: behind exactly. You guys, wanna you wanna look at like 406 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: a non serial killing master of deception. Yeah, I want 407 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: to see the Willy of the ocean. Yeah, that slick 408 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: Willy of the ocean. Um So, the mimic octopus is 409 00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:49,199 Speaker 1: one of the most incredible um cases of animal mimicry 410 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 1: I've ever seen. It's uh so octopuses um can change 411 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: their skin color and even the texture of it. So 412 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,719 Speaker 1: they're kind of like chameleons boat way quicker um with 413 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: way more precision. Um. Like you know how people think, like, oh, 414 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,479 Speaker 1: chameleons when they walk on like a different color, they 415 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:14,639 Speaker 1: can change their color like that's not true, but are not. No, No, 416 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: I mean they can change They can change their skin 417 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: color a little bit. It's usually more in terms of 418 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: like when they're mating or their mood, Like they can 419 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: change their skin color and they can change it a 420 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: bit to match tree bark, But they don't have like 421 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 1: a vast repertoire of like color will change pink, that's right, um, 422 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: But octopuses and cuttlefish are more like that, Like I don't. 423 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,959 Speaker 1: It depends. So it's like I don't know if they 424 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 1: can turn bright pink, but they can change their skin 425 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: to patterns that they find, so you can see their 426 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: skin link pulsate in real time like an LCD screen 427 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: to match their surroundings. So even artificial surroundings like a checkerboard. 428 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: Cuttlefish will attempt to make black and white squares on 429 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: their body ease, like it doesn't quite match up. They're 430 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: not like they try, like you can see blocks of 431 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:11,199 Speaker 1: black and white. Um. So, the mimic octopus takes this 432 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: a step further. They not only transform their skin, but 433 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: they move their entire body, tentacles and all to mimic 434 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: the shape of other animals. Um. So, first about this 435 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: little little cutie there. Uh. These octopuses live in the 436 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: Indo Pacific Ocean. Their regular coloration is brown and white stripes, 437 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: and they have eight long tentacles. Um. And when they're 438 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: under threat, they can ball up and turn dark to 439 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: look like a rock. They can shift their tentacles behind them, 440 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: bundling them up to look like fins, while flattening their 441 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: heads to look like a poisonous species of flatfish. Uh. 442 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: They even mimic the flat fish is style of undulating swimming. 443 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: Another trick is to hide most of its body in 444 00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: a hole and then it sticks out two of its 445 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: tentacles that it's like the color has changed such that 446 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,879 Speaker 1: they're black and white stripes on them, and then that 447 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: will look like a banded sea snake, because like the 448 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,480 Speaker 1: optical illusion of like you have one tinacoopo in the 449 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,119 Speaker 1: hole the other one if it's a snake. Um and this. Yeah, 450 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,480 Speaker 1: and banded sea snakes are one of the most venomous 451 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: snakes in the world. I just love the fact I 452 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: just can't get over that he becomes a rock. Yeah, 453 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 1: I wish I could do that if I could see 454 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: someone there. They also can mimic poisonous lionfish by um 455 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,720 Speaker 1: holding its tentacles out like the deadly spines of the 456 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: fish and kind of swimming like the lionfish does um. 457 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: Sometimes by I'll just don't even know what they're mimicking. 458 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,119 Speaker 1: Like they've there's like they can turn like brown and 459 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: spiky and start walking around on the seafloor on like 460 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,639 Speaker 1: bundled up tentacles, like they look like a little cartoon feet, 461 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: Like quite know what they're trying to, like maybe just 462 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,920 Speaker 1: a walking rock, like I'm a rock. I'm a rock. 463 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: Are mocking us? Humans? Look at you in your look 464 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:15,400 Speaker 1: at me. I'm a human phone. I breathe air like agad, 465 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's just really mean. Uh. There's this 466 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 1: nearly observed behavior in octopus is where they will actually 467 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: collect to coconut shell house and carry them around so 468 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: when they're threatened they can just close themselves up. O 469 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: my god, I'm obsessed. They're so cute. It's like, oh, 470 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: that's why. That's also another dream. That's also another dream, 471 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: just to either turn into a rock or have my 472 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: little safe space everywhere I go. Yeah, like a bubble. 473 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: Just no, just not today, sat It's like yeah, no, no, 474 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: I'm a coconut. Now yep, nothing to see here, nothing 475 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: to see, just a coconut. So I was interested in, 476 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: like how they actually do the skin changing, because that's 477 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: crazy to me. Actually, let me show you guys of it. Yes, please, 478 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: I need this, silly fucking Willie's. Have you seen that 479 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: video of the girl trying to eat an octopus and 480 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: then octopus like at tacks for face. Yeah. That actually 481 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: that's a common thing too in the wild. So like 482 00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: dolphins will smack octopi or octopus is repeatedly, um, to 483 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: make sure they're dead because their tentacles can keep moving 484 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,960 Speaker 1: for a while, uh after they're dead, both after they're 485 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: dead and like even as like if they're being like 486 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: consumed and like so it's like because they'll you know, 487 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: it's it's these um the muscles can fire and so 488 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: it's uh, it's really creepy. Um. But also like you 489 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: can see like its skin color immediately change. Here's the 490 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: banded sea snake memory memoricrans goes in the hall like, look, 491 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,880 Speaker 1: I am a snack. I'm a snack. That is so 492 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: sea there it is doing this sort of like um 493 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 1: the oh yeah, that's lionfish. Um. Pretty crazy. It would 494 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: have to see these animals right before mixed them, or 495 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,960 Speaker 1: does it have the ability is inherently in them? It's 496 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,440 Speaker 1: I think that it's kind of it's pre programmed. So 497 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: here it is again little it's us. It's a little 498 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: ball that looks sort of like a seaweed thing and 499 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,560 Speaker 1: it's like walking on its tynacles like their feet. Yeah, 500 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: I can't see how that's like. It looks like it's 501 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: just floating away seaweed basically, or like floating away like um, coral, 502 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: they got an observable creature. Yeah, but they actually so 503 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: to your question, they do actually come pre programmed with 504 00:30:54,920 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: a repertoire of different shapes and colorations. So it's not 505 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: just like it's genetic. Well yeah, so it's so their 506 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: bodies are like an LCD screen. Um Uh. Their brains 507 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 1: send signals to thousands and thousands of chromatophores their cells 508 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: that can act as biological pixels that can be expanded 509 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: and contracted to change skin tone. This is how they 510 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 1: can transform their skin into a new pattern or color 511 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,880 Speaker 1: in a split second. Um. But like, so how do 512 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: they match actual patterns? Like if you put a cuttle 513 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:34,479 Speaker 1: fish on on a checkerboard or you put um, you know, 514 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: against a more natural background. How do they know to 515 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: like do that pattern? So biology biologists think that when 516 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 1: their eyes taken an image of their background, their brains 517 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 1: make a statistical approximation of that image. Then they match 518 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: it to a vast repertoire pre programmed patterns. UM. So 519 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: human brains are kind of similar in terms of cognition, 520 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: Like we have these set archetypes in our brains, so 521 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 1: like that's how we can recognize something like a cat, 522 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: like we've um, we've learned from observing many cats that 523 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: like there's this sort of shape that is a cat, 524 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: and then once we see it, it matches. It's sort 525 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: of like matching to that pattern that's in our programmed 526 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 1: in our brains. But the difference is that the cuttlefish 527 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: and the octopus is come preprogrammed with these um patterns. 528 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: Octopuses are very smart, though, so I wonder if they 529 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: have more ability to learn. So cuttlefish are able to 530 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: start matching patterns as soon as they hatch, leading to 531 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: the theory that they're cute little supercomputers who come preprogrammed 532 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: with a series of complex patterns. UM. But so cuttle 533 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: fish also have this other really intelligent behavior. Um So, 534 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: males can transform one half of their body to look 535 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: female and the other half to look male, So like 536 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,680 Speaker 1: changing the coloration um so that males facing them on 537 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: one side see a harmless female and then females on 538 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 1: the other side see a sexy, available male. Uh. And 539 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 1: then that way they can attract the females while catfishing 540 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: the male into being non aggressive like it's cool, I'm 541 00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 1: just a female. Then like this is a ultimate player trick. Yes, there, 542 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: there's like this behavior is pretty common amongst like many 543 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: different animals where like there's like sturgeons where the male 544 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:24,920 Speaker 1: there's a certain type of like sneaky male fish where 545 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,800 Speaker 1: they their bodies actually look more female. Um, and they 546 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 1: it's an evolutionary strategy because they're smaller and they can't 547 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: compete as much with the big males, but they can 548 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 1: like have sneaky mating because the big males assume they're 549 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: a female. But in this case, it's like way crazier 550 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: because they can actually change their body like you know, 551 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: they're they're they're in real time morphing into like like no, no, no, 552 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: it's cool, I'm I'm I'm a female. And then the 553 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,520 Speaker 1: other half is like not really like hit me up. 554 00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: I'm curious if they if they can all do that 555 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: white they figure it out, Like they're not like wait 556 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: is this one like yesterday? Yeah? Maybe they're just like 557 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 1: very very like yeah, And I guess like it is 558 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:19,439 Speaker 1: interesting because with a lot of mimicry, there is sort 559 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,879 Speaker 1: of an arms race. So like with butterflies, Um, there 560 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: are um, poisonous butterflies that aren't good to eat. Birds 561 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,360 Speaker 1: don't like them, they make them yack up um. But 562 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: then there's the mimics that are totally delicious, good bugs 563 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: teat and then um, but they mimic the ones that 564 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 1: are yeah, the poisonous ones and then um. But then 565 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: if you have sort of a critical mass of poisonous 566 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: or not mimics, like where there's more mimics than there 567 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 1: are poisonous ones, then they'll unlearn uh that and they'll 568 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: start eating them again. So it's like you see these 569 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: sort of populations kind of have these uh sort of 570 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:01,560 Speaker 1: like inverse relationships and like uh sort of balance out. 571 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 1: It's it's really interesting. That's crazy, like, well they're only 572 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 1: seems to be poison Yeah, so you have to have enough, 573 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,200 Speaker 1: like you have to have enough good It's like gambling, 574 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: where it's like you have to have enough good feedback 575 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 1: otherwise you're not going to do it. So I imagine 576 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: with cuttle fish, it's that they're mating strategy is successful 577 00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,719 Speaker 1: enough where it's like they encounter enough females and like 578 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:28,240 Speaker 1: get successful with them enough that even though they're fooled 579 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,439 Speaker 1: a few times, like, um, it's still it's still better 580 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: to give it a give it a try. That's crazy, 581 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 1: don't I feel like I read that in the game. 582 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: You read the game goodness, how could you? I was kidding? 583 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:48,200 Speaker 1: But I also I feel like I think I did 584 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 1: read it just as research in high school to know 585 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: what these dumb boys were talking about. Oh yeah, I 586 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: definitely learned online the terminology like nagging. Yeah, that's a 587 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 1: good one. Uh yeah, I mean that's like a term 588 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: that's using a lot of things. Yeah, which is which 589 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: is kind of funny because I feel like, um, with 590 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:16,440 Speaker 1: peacock's uh there with birds, a lot of the theory 591 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,520 Speaker 1: with like male birds showing off this fancy coloration, it's 592 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,759 Speaker 1: like it's sort of more feminist because birds are the 593 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: ones that are guiding evolution. Because there it's it's more 594 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: like there's this theory and there's this great book I'm 595 00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,279 Speaker 1: trying to remember the title. It's about like the um 596 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,000 Speaker 1: but it's about sort of the uh, the esthetic choices 597 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,000 Speaker 1: of birds and like this idea that it's not just 598 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: about male fitness. It's also just like the female birds 599 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: are like like, wow, you're you're sparkly. I like, uh, 600 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 1: And so like female birds drive evolution in in bird 601 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: species because they're like your tail like does a few somersaults. 602 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: I do like that, like you're you're you know, your 603 00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,760 Speaker 1: goal or pouch in your neck is are big and red. 604 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 1: That's cool. I love it. Yeah, there are so many 605 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:07,760 Speaker 1: animals that could do like a song and to dance 606 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: to even get the females attention. Yeah, there's a new 607 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 1: like like Planet Earth sort of Netflix eas the one 608 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 1: where the bird becomes like the top, yeah are you 609 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: talking about, like dances around and he becomes this absurd 610 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,360 Speaker 1: shape and it's just like twirled. It's like literally the 611 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: top yeah, yeah, like and like its neck rock and 612 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: it looks like an umbrella that's spending around crazy. And 613 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: then there's one where like the birds will sort of 614 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: like there's like four males and like there's one male 615 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,760 Speaker 1: that's like the one trying to get the females attention, 616 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: and then he has backup dancers. It's so birds are crazy. 617 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: They're literally wingman. I feel like I'm going to have 618 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,200 Speaker 1: to do a whole episode about thirsty birds, thirsty birds 619 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,759 Speaker 1: and all the cool stuff they do, because it is, 620 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: you know, just trying to get get that get ladies 621 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 1: are just trying to get laid. They're just like us, 622 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 1: is just trying to people magazine. They're just like us. 623 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: Can humans transform into other animals? Well no, but some 624 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 1: humans think they can. There's a rare disorder known as 625 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: clinical like anthropy and humans where you hold the delusion 626 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,520 Speaker 1: that you can transform into an animal. We're not talking 627 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: about being a furry or having a first SONA clinical 628 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,560 Speaker 1: like anthrapy is a form of psychosis that involves being 629 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: in an altered state of mind, and despite being called 630 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:44,240 Speaker 1: like anthropy, it's not limited to the delusion of turning 631 00:38:44,239 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: into a woolf Cases include people thinking they can transform 632 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 1: into hyenas, cats, horses, tigers, or birds. Anyways. There is 633 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: even a case in which someone thought they would go 634 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:01,160 Speaker 1: through a series of transformations into animals before finally being 635 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: able to return to their human form after treatment. One 636 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: unlucky psychiatric patient both had clinical echanthropy and Cotard delusion. 637 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:13,440 Speaker 1: Cotard delusion, which we've discussed before on the podcast, is 638 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 1: the delusion that your body is dead. He believed that 639 00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: he transformed into a dog, while also believing he was 640 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: at times a dead dog. The patient had also had 641 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: sexual contact with the sheep, for which his guilt may 642 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: have been contributing to his delusions. You could say he 643 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 1: was feeling sheepish. I know, I know, this is a serious, 644 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: disturbing matter that shouldn't be joked about. I'm wully rully sorry. 645 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,319 Speaker 1: We'll be right back, get it. The guy who had 646 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: sexual in with the sheep, right, so we'll be right back. 647 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,319 Speaker 1: Everyone's taught about metamorphosis in elementary school. Frog start out 648 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: as padpoles and grow leg Hungry caterpillars eat a bunch 649 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: of leaves, bundle themselves into cocoons or crystalists, and turn 650 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,399 Speaker 1: into beautiful butterflies. But your elementary school teacher likely left 651 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: out some of the more gory details. Have you ever 652 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:15,400 Speaker 1: wondered what happens inside those cocoons and crystalises? Do you 653 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:19,680 Speaker 1: picture caterpillars sprouting wings and legs. Sorry, but nope, they 654 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,240 Speaker 1: dissolved completely. That's right. The caterpillar will digest itself, turning 655 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: entirely into go into an oozing soup. The only parts 656 00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: not dissolved are groups of blueprints cells called imaginal disks, 657 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 1: which will eventually grow into body parts fueled by the 658 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,319 Speaker 1: soup of its former body. In fact, cocoons and crystalists 659 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 1: are more like wounds than a sleeping bag, where the 660 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: caterpillar goes through a sort of second embryonic development. So 661 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,520 Speaker 1: do those dissolved caterpillars die forming a new creature? Is 662 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,640 Speaker 1: it a kind of ship of THESEUS thought experiment where 663 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: you're deconstructing the caterpillar cell by cell and rebuilding it 664 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 1: into a new ship butterfly thing? So did it die? 665 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:05,800 Speaker 1: Is it reborn? Well, here's something trippy. Researchers have found 666 00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,160 Speaker 1: that moths retain the memories of their former caterpillar cells. 667 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,720 Speaker 1: Caterpillars were conditioned to hate a certain odor by pairing 668 00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,920 Speaker 1: it with a mild electric shock. Then the caterpillars went 669 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: through the typical metamorphosis process, dissolving into a soup and 670 00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 1: reforming into a moll. But these moms actually kept the 671 00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:26,240 Speaker 1: memories of the smell, avoiding it, as compared to control 672 00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,520 Speaker 1: groups who weren't conditioned as caterpillars. So how do you 673 00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,240 Speaker 1: get turned into a bug yogurt and keep your memories. 674 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,080 Speaker 1: It's possible that some of the neural structure resides in 675 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: the imaginal disc cells that are kept intact during the metamorphosis, 676 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: although it's hard to say how much of their brains 677 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,400 Speaker 1: remain the same. It's kind of spooky when you think 678 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:46,799 Speaker 1: about it. The moth is perhaps like the ghost of 679 00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:50,160 Speaker 1: its former caterpillar self. Weird how they didn't cover this 680 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,200 Speaker 1: in The Hungry, Hungry Caterpillar. I'm going to be joined 681 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: by a real life animal researcher to go over some 682 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,359 Speaker 1: of the other freaky metamorphoses you probably didn't learn about 683 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:03,520 Speaker 1: in school. Joining us today is our friendly neighborhood lizardman, 684 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: Dr Greg Polly. He's a herpetology researcher and curator at 685 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: the Natural History Museum of Los Angeles County. Welcome to 686 00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,239 Speaker 1: the show again, Greg, thanks for having me on. So 687 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: as kids, we learn about tadpoles turning into frogs, but 688 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: it's one of those things that I think it's a 689 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,640 Speaker 1: lot crazier when you really think about it. Um, And 690 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: I think people don't know as much about metamorphosis as 691 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 1: they think they do. Um, So what did school not 692 00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: teach us about tadpole to frog metamorphosis? A ton? They 693 00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:40,520 Speaker 1: didn't teach They didn't teach anything so much. No, I mean, 694 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 1: metamorphosis is such an amazing process. And you know the 695 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: reality is that there's something like, you know, seven thousand, 696 00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,360 Speaker 1: three hundred species of amphibians, of which the vast majority 697 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,920 Speaker 1: of a lot of frogs. Yeah, so something like I 698 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:57,760 Speaker 1: don't know sixty three of those. Um, just those numbers 699 00:42:57,920 --> 00:42:59,759 Speaker 1: are off to my head. So that's roughly about what 700 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: it is. Um. Are frogs, and they oftentimes have lots 701 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:06,759 Speaker 1: of variants on this theme of metamorphosis. So first of all, 702 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: not all, not all frogs have a free living tadpole stage. Yeah, 703 00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 1: not so. Um, some of them have, you know, the 704 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 1: sort of standard like they have a free living tadpole 705 00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,000 Speaker 1: and then the tadpole undergoes metamorphosis, right, and you get 706 00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:23,239 Speaker 1: the tail gets resorbed and the limbs pop out, and 707 00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: you know, you have a bunch of other changes that happened, 708 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: and then the thing, you know, crawls out of the water. 709 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:28,560 Speaker 1: It's our top round wind like, Yeah, a lot of 710 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 1: them do that, but a lot of them don't do that. 711 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: So some of them have that tadpole stage basically inside 712 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: the egg, and what hashes out of the egg is 713 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,080 Speaker 1: a little froglet. Like we see that a lot. And 714 00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: then we have situations like there's these spade foot toads 715 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: in in the desert Southwest and the United States that 716 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: they basically the adult breed in ponds that form in 717 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: monsoon rainstorms and thunderstorms. And so but those ponds in 718 00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,640 Speaker 1: the desert, we're gonna draw really fast. So they go 719 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:58,680 Speaker 1: from you know, egg to like tadpole in a matter 720 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,759 Speaker 1: of days, and then they go from adpole to frog 721 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: let in a matter of days. So you might have 722 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: ten days two weeks in which the entire process is completed. 723 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,120 Speaker 1: And then you might have frogs, for example, at high 724 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,640 Speaker 1: elevation in the Sierra Nevada or in northern or extreme 725 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: southern latitudes, um that might actually take a long time 726 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: to grow up to the point where they're going to metamorphosis, 727 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: and so they actually might be tadpoles for two or 728 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: three years before they get to the point that they transform. 729 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: That's like when I think of a frog, I think 730 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:29,040 Speaker 1: their whole lifespan is two or three years, not like, no, 731 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: not the case at all. Like there are some, there 732 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 1: are definitely some. There are some species of frogs that 733 00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,319 Speaker 1: live way longer than that. Like there's some species of 734 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,840 Speaker 1: frogs that you possibility like actually some of those poison 735 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,239 Speaker 1: dart frogs, like the incredibly colorful ones that we see 736 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,399 Speaker 1: hopping around in rainforest in northern South America in parts 737 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,319 Speaker 1: of cent America, some of those live up intil over 738 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:51,120 Speaker 1: twenty years, like, which is just amazing thing about that 739 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 1: is and I imagine a lot of them successfully live 740 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,160 Speaker 1: pretty long because they don't get they have that point. 741 00:44:57,480 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: It helps to be it helps to be really toxic 742 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: and helps um and then and then, so we think 743 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: a lot about with with metamorphosis. We think a lot 744 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: about tadpoles and frogs, but of course there's also salamanders 745 00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,320 Speaker 1: and in Salaman if we don't call them tadpoles, we 746 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,560 Speaker 1: just say the larva, which is not just insects. Yeah, exactly, 747 00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: so we it's totally reasonable to use the term larva. 748 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:18,680 Speaker 1: And also I mean the term metamorphosis we use that 749 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,200 Speaker 1: for insect it's also true for amphibians, and so for 750 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,160 Speaker 1: salamanders and their larva. We see tons of sort of 751 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,399 Speaker 1: you know permutations on this theme of metamorphosis as well, 752 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,759 Speaker 1: and I think some of the coolest are actually there 753 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,640 Speaker 1: are some species of salamanders where the adult salamanders basically 754 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 1: maintain the overall larval form. So you catch the adult 755 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,320 Speaker 1: salamander and it looks just like the larva, like it's aquatic, 756 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:44,000 Speaker 1: it's got gills, it's got a tail, but they're also 757 00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,040 Speaker 1: sexually mature. So this is what we call pedomorphosis. So 758 00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:50,520 Speaker 1: they've maintained some of these larval characters into adulthood and 759 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: they kind of like ax Laudels X. Laudel is the 760 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,440 Speaker 1: perfect example, so that is a pedomorphic tiger salamander. So 761 00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:00,640 Speaker 1: that is a species that doesn't undergo traditional amorphosis and 762 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,879 Speaker 1: actually becomes sexually mature. So males, you know, have test 763 00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: these females have ovaries, and yet they're in the overall 764 00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:09,200 Speaker 1: larval form where they've got killed and they've got a 765 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:13,439 Speaker 1: tail and their cruising around. They're technically like babies but 766 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,480 Speaker 1: not Yeah, but they're also adults. So they're sort of 767 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,600 Speaker 1: combining the best of both worlds. Basically, what they're saying 768 00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:21,440 Speaker 1: is like, Okay, the aquatic environment is so good, I'm 769 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 1: just gonna stay. And so there are some species where 770 00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:28,400 Speaker 1: that sort of that transition to being this pedomorphic lineage happened, 771 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,760 Speaker 1: you know, way back in their history, and there's actually 772 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,520 Speaker 1: some species, including some tiger stylementers here in the United States, 773 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,880 Speaker 1: where if the aquatic conditions are really good, they'll stay 774 00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: as that pedomorphic kind as an impromptu decision. Yeah, just 775 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,960 Speaker 1: like the conditions are right, like the waters, you know, 776 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,680 Speaker 1: the water is nice and warm, it's easy living, there's 777 00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:51,399 Speaker 1: tons of prey. I'm having a good time, there's lots 778 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: of whether individuals around. Cool. I'm just gonna stay here. 779 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: And but then let's say that didn't you know, that's 780 00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:58,720 Speaker 1: been good for a while, and then there's a drought. 781 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 1: Oh man, don't and then they and then boom, that's incredible. 782 00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:08,799 Speaker 1: It's like it's like within one lifespan, like evolution, Yeah, 783 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,560 Speaker 1: you can all these sort of potential things that can happen. So, like, 784 00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: I guess, so the key here is like when we 785 00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:17,120 Speaker 1: think about metamorphosis, it's just incredibly diverse. Yeah, and it's 786 00:47:17,400 --> 00:47:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, why shouldn't it be, right, there's like different 787 00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: habitats out there, there's lots of different species, and of 788 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,520 Speaker 1: course they're doing lots of different things. Yeah. So you 789 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,720 Speaker 1: talk to me a little bit about the paradoxical frog, 790 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:31,480 Speaker 1: which sounds sort of like a Benjamin Button situation, and 791 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 1: it kind of is in a way. Um, so, can 792 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,840 Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about this mystery frog? Yeah, 793 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,239 Speaker 1: so this is I mean, what a great name for 794 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,280 Speaker 1: a frog, to the paradoxical frog. And it's entirely named 795 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,799 Speaker 1: for this whole sounds like a like an all rock 796 00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 1: band name, like paradoxical frogs, paradoxical frogs, but you like 797 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,279 Speaker 1: like electric ukuleles on there. I mean, the paradoxical frog 798 00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:54,759 Speaker 1: is so cool that I just have to assume that 799 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 1: this band is gonna be really really good. Yeah. Yeah, 800 00:47:56,960 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 1: um so yeah, the paradoxical frog. The reason it gets 801 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:04,600 Speaker 1: that name is because the tadpoles get huge, like two 802 00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,400 Speaker 1: can be like a really big paradoxical So that's like 803 00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,719 Speaker 1: ten inches people, Okay, ten inches. So we're jumping around, 804 00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, depending on where you are in the listening audience, 805 00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,040 Speaker 1: and so this is like a ten inch long tadpole 806 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,720 Speaker 1: that's huge. And then but of course it's mostly tail, 807 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,000 Speaker 1: but it has a really big tail. I mean both 808 00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:23,719 Speaker 1: in terms of length and also just in terms of 809 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:25,799 Speaker 1: height and the tail, like it's a big tail. And 810 00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:27,560 Speaker 1: then but of course what does that tail do well? 811 00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,600 Speaker 1: That actually fuels that whole process of metamorphosis because it's 812 00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,440 Speaker 1: such a radical change. So it's like the body is 813 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:36,600 Speaker 1: actually feeding on the tail. The body is digesting the 814 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: table the tail to just feed this increasing energetically expensive 815 00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:43,040 Speaker 1: act of transitioning into this sort of whole different kind 816 00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,840 Speaker 1: of organism. And we've talked about c squirts on the 817 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:49,440 Speaker 1: show before, and that's another process where the c squirt 818 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,080 Speaker 1: like cannibalize it its own body to metamorphosis from one 819 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,200 Speaker 1: stage to the other. Like I think it, I will 820 00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:00,399 Speaker 1: take your word from It eats its own It does 821 00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,920 Speaker 1: and doesn't eat its own brain. It eats like certain 822 00:49:02,920 --> 00:49:04,880 Speaker 1: parts of its brain, but then it forms kind of 823 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,200 Speaker 1: a new brain. Cool. Yeah, I mean it makes sense, 824 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,800 Speaker 1: like if you're gonna undergo one of these big transitions, 825 00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:14,319 Speaker 1: you while your organs are undergoing this remarkable change, they're 826 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: probably not going to be functioning at least as well 827 00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:19,239 Speaker 1: as they would otherwise, and maybe not at all. So 828 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 1: when frogs they actually stop eating, like these tadpoles stop eating, 829 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:24,439 Speaker 1: and their entire digestive drack is, you know, having lots 830 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:27,960 Speaker 1: of changes. Mouthparts are changing so under construction, so they 831 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,799 Speaker 1: can't so it's just gonna Yeah, you just basically cannibalize. 832 00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,279 Speaker 1: You take all the energy from your tail, and that 833 00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:35,360 Speaker 1: fuels this big change. And so that's what the paradoxical 834 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,120 Speaker 1: frog is doing. But what's incredible is it goes from 835 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:40,319 Speaker 1: this like ten inch long tadpole to this relatively sort 836 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:42,680 Speaker 1: of small froglet, and of course then that froglet you know, 837 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,000 Speaker 1: as all others about how big is the frog, I mean, 838 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:46,879 Speaker 1: I think that the froglet is like, you know, right 839 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,919 Speaker 1: around inch and a half two inches, Okay, that's like yeah, 840 00:49:50,960 --> 00:49:52,920 Speaker 1: so you basically you basically go from like ten inches 841 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,200 Speaker 1: down to this like one and a half to two 842 00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:56,360 Speaker 1: inch long froglet. But then of course that froglet, you know, 843 00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,840 Speaker 1: and then it starts eating and it's growing and you know, 844 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,640 Speaker 1: it's not yet reproductive maturer and so right, so it 845 00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,600 Speaker 1: goes from like a big tadpole to a little frog 846 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:08,319 Speaker 1: and then the frog grows up into an adult exactly, Yeah, 847 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,200 Speaker 1: and then lays eggs and starts the cycle all over. 848 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:14,759 Speaker 1: That's such a kind of circuitest way to reach adulthood. Yeah, 849 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,080 Speaker 1: I mean it's not. It's just that they get so big, 850 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,000 Speaker 1: is what's you know, is what sort of more dramatic here? Yeah, 851 00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,399 Speaker 1: why do why do the tadpoles get so big as 852 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,799 Speaker 1: opposed to like because I know there's some species of 853 00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: frog where the tadpole is roughly the same size of 854 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,920 Speaker 1: the new froglet, maybe a little bigger with the tail. 855 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, kind of see, it's actually there's it's actually 856 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:38,879 Speaker 1: not yet. I don't think it's really totally clear why 857 00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:43,280 Speaker 1: paradoxical frogs, like why are they doing this necessary? Um, 858 00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,640 Speaker 1: it probably has to do not just with the energetic 859 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,839 Speaker 1: cost of metamorphosis, because lots of other species experience as well, 860 00:50:49,080 --> 00:50:51,280 Speaker 1: but it probably has to do with aspects of their environment. 861 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:54,080 Speaker 1: You know, you're trying to get to a really big size, 862 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:55,719 Speaker 1: you know, grow as much as you can, and it's 863 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,520 Speaker 1: undoubtedly the case that the bigger you are as a 864 00:50:57,520 --> 00:51:00,160 Speaker 1: tadpole is the bigger you are as a froglet, right right, 865 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,080 Speaker 1: And then there's lots of repercussions of that, like if 866 00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:08,839 Speaker 1: you're small, maybe you're But why specifically paradoxical frogs do this. 867 00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:12,880 Speaker 1: I haven't seen a good explanation. It's Benjamin Buttons some 868 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,919 Speaker 1: of just because they're like I wanted to be super cool, Yeah, yeah, 869 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,840 Speaker 1: just like I wanted to be the biggest tadpole on 870 00:51:18,880 --> 00:51:21,759 Speaker 1: the block. And then and they like wear a little 871 00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:27,200 Speaker 1: sunglasses and just cruise around and cruise around tropical ponds. Um. 872 00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:31,880 Speaker 1: So there's this parasite called Liberia that I want to 873 00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:37,040 Speaker 1: talk about. Um, it's a flatworm treumatoad is that if 874 00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:41,960 Speaker 1: that's I'm pronouncing that right? Um? So it infects frogs. Um. 875 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:46,200 Speaker 1: But we're not here to talk necessarily about the frog's metamorphosis. 876 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,560 Speaker 1: But the the liberia itself goes through an amazing shape 877 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:55,520 Speaker 1: shifting life cycle. So the adult worms live inside predatory 878 00:51:55,600 --> 00:52:01,520 Speaker 1: birds like cranes, herons and egrets. They reproduce inside the 879 00:52:01,560 --> 00:52:04,359 Speaker 1: bird gut and then their eggs travel out of the 880 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,000 Speaker 1: crane via the poop train. Then they hatch. The The 881 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:14,400 Speaker 1: riberia flat worms hatch into these sort of like tadpole 882 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:18,000 Speaker 1: like larval stages with like sort of a body and 883 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,520 Speaker 1: a tail um and then those in fact ram's horns 884 00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:26,399 Speaker 1: snails which um are also common in the same sort 885 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:32,960 Speaker 1: of like lagoon areas. Yeah. Um, I actually, like anyone 886 00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,120 Speaker 1: who wants an aquarium knows how great they are taking 887 00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,040 Speaker 1: over the snails. Um. So. So the riberia lives in 888 00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:44,439 Speaker 1: the snails reproductive tissue, and then it transforms into more 889 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:47,960 Speaker 1: of a worm shape. Um. So this isn't another stage 890 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:52,480 Speaker 1: in its life cycle. Then it reproduces a sexually and 891 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:57,439 Speaker 1: castrates the snail by eating their reproductive organs as as 892 00:52:57,480 --> 00:52:59,759 Speaker 1: you do, you know, if you believe in reincarnation, like 893 00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:04,960 Speaker 1: just say, let's avoid being aid being rams torn snails. 894 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,480 Speaker 1: So it sounds like the treumatodes are having fun, but 895 00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 1: not the snals. I don't know they did, after all, 896 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,359 Speaker 1: start off like the first start of their life with 897 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:17,560 Speaker 1: like being pooped out. Yeah that's true, that's true. So 898 00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:21,319 Speaker 1: then after they've castrated the snails, which must be like 899 00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:25,880 Speaker 1: great singers and just all these castrati snails like oh um, 900 00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,560 Speaker 1: then they transform into another free swimming form so that's 901 00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:34,120 Speaker 1: the kind of tadpole like head and tail um. And 902 00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:38,480 Speaker 1: then they infect frogs and also fish um. And they 903 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:43,920 Speaker 1: prefer uh infecting frogs when they're still developing. Um, and 904 00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:48,319 Speaker 1: then they insist in the frog. Not I in S 905 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:52,400 Speaker 1: I T, but E in c y s T like 906 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:56,319 Speaker 1: assist because they like embed themselves in the tissue and 907 00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:01,040 Speaker 1: form this cist capsule around themselves. Uh. And it's really 908 00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:05,480 Speaker 1: as disgusting as you would imagine, like acne. But then 909 00:54:05,719 --> 00:54:11,160 Speaker 1: you have a warm in there um and then um, 910 00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:16,759 Speaker 1: so finally there there Uh life cycle ends when the 911 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:21,719 Speaker 1: frog gets eaten by a crane. The liberia emerges from 912 00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:26,000 Speaker 1: the cyst, which sounds awful, and then it develops into 913 00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,680 Speaker 1: an adult inside the birds intestinal tract, mates with other 914 00:54:29,960 --> 00:54:35,360 Speaker 1: cool hip liberia in the area, and the whole boschi 915 00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:40,480 Speaker 1: and horror starts again. Um. Just an amazingly complex I know. 916 00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,320 Speaker 1: It's like it feels like a four year old's idea 917 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:48,480 Speaker 1: of like, uh, some kind of transformer robot thing. And 918 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:51,560 Speaker 1: then it turns and then it starts swimming around, and 919 00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,399 Speaker 1: then it like like goes up its butt and then yeah, 920 00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,719 Speaker 1: it basically is yeah, it's like, yeah, a little kid 921 00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:01,439 Speaker 1: came up from this whole. Um. That's like not even 922 00:55:01,480 --> 00:55:07,520 Speaker 1: the weirdest aspect of Liberia. It also when it infects frogs, 923 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:13,160 Speaker 1: especially young frogs completely jacks up the developing tadpoles and 924 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,560 Speaker 1: makes them grow these extra limbs, like and they're weird. 925 00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:19,440 Speaker 1: It's not just like like having four arms would be 926 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,120 Speaker 1: kind of weird, but they're like also they can be 927 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:28,080 Speaker 1: super long or really like weirdly inflated, uh, strange numbers 928 00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:31,200 Speaker 1: of digits. Yeah. Yeah, So I wanted to ask you, 929 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,600 Speaker 1: like if you've if you've ever seen one of these 930 00:55:33,640 --> 00:55:36,080 Speaker 1: infected frogs, or if you can kind of explain like 931 00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 1: why they start growing long noodle legs at the back 932 00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:44,520 Speaker 1: of their legs. So these traumatid parasites, when you know, 933 00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,800 Speaker 1: they brow into these limb buds, and what will happen 934 00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:49,600 Speaker 1: is if like so, if this is a tadpole, it's 935 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,399 Speaker 1: just got those limb buds. Just about playing real quick 936 00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:55,160 Speaker 1: for the audience what a limb bud is. Yeah, so right, 937 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:58,279 Speaker 1: So these tadpoles are are going to undergo metamorphosis, and 938 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,000 Speaker 1: so as it does that, you know, as that goes 939 00:56:01,040 --> 00:56:04,880 Speaker 1: to that process, then in the tadpole you get these 940 00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,239 Speaker 1: spots where like the hind legs are gonna pop out, 941 00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,239 Speaker 1: in the front legs are gonna and so that's that's 942 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,279 Speaker 1: the limbud right, so basically part of the tadpole, but 943 00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,160 Speaker 1: that's the part that's gonna turn. It's going to develop 944 00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,680 Speaker 1: into a limb. And so what happens is if these 945 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,160 Speaker 1: triumatodes burrow right into that limb bud, they can actually 946 00:56:20,200 --> 00:56:23,880 Speaker 1: cause it to split in weird ways. And so sometimes 947 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:25,920 Speaker 1: what will then happened is like where you should have 948 00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:28,960 Speaker 1: had one arm, you end up with two arms, or 949 00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:30,960 Speaker 1: maybe an arm ends up being like it grows part 950 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:33,239 Speaker 1: way out and then it divides into two, and then 951 00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:35,759 Speaker 1: they might have a tra branch. So you get all 952 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,440 Speaker 1: of these weird sort of things going on. And it 953 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,480 Speaker 1: turns out that I've actually only seen this once when 954 00:56:41,520 --> 00:56:43,000 Speaker 1: what's really crazy about this is that some of the 955 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:46,279 Speaker 1: early work that was done on this was actually done 956 00:56:46,520 --> 00:56:48,520 Speaker 1: by a guy by the name of Peter Johnson who 957 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,680 Speaker 1: was an undergrad. He actually started this work when he 958 00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:53,279 Speaker 1: was an undergrad at Stanford University, and he did a 959 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:57,520 Speaker 1: lot of the work actually at uh ponds that are 960 00:56:57,560 --> 00:56:59,520 Speaker 1: like ponds that like I used to go hiking by 961 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:02,000 Speaker 1: when I was high school, and he did this. I 962 00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:03,920 Speaker 1: think he's like right around my age, so I think 963 00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:08,880 Speaker 1: this is probably this is probably mid to list late nineties, 964 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,879 Speaker 1: I think they started doing this work and elsewhere around 965 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,200 Speaker 1: the country people were reporting in a high incidents of 966 00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,480 Speaker 1: these like malform frogs, and we thought that maybe this 967 00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,280 Speaker 1: was associated with this bigger pattern of amphibian declimb we're 968 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,240 Speaker 1: seeing like yeah, and so we're like, well, what's going on. 969 00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:23,880 Speaker 1: And it turns out its probably does have a link 970 00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:26,560 Speaker 1: to pollution, because you know, one of the sort of 971 00:57:26,640 --> 00:57:31,040 Speaker 1: key aspects of this crazy parasite life cycle is that 972 00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:35,360 Speaker 1: they have to go through these rams, horn snails, algae 973 00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:38,320 Speaker 1: and extra nitrogen in the water, and that can be 974 00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:40,920 Speaker 1: from agricultural runoff, that can be from fertilizers, that can 975 00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,840 Speaker 1: be from pollution, extra nitrogen in the water, algae, blooms, rams, 976 00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:49,480 Speaker 1: horn snails really want to understand large ecological patterns. Get 977 00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,439 Speaker 1: an aquarium and try to keep it from either being 978 00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:56,680 Speaker 1: taken over about by algae or by snails, and like 979 00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:00,200 Speaker 1: trying to balance that because it's very difficult. So these 980 00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:02,320 Speaker 1: uh yeah, so these you get, you know, large numbers 981 00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,240 Speaker 1: of rams from sales, large numbers of trimands, and then 982 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,840 Speaker 1: you get large numbers of these crazy and so yeah, 983 00:58:06,960 --> 00:58:09,880 Speaker 1: these these parasites they brew in the limbuds. You get 984 00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:14,480 Speaker 1: this weird. These weird, you know, deformed frogs, just like 985 00:58:15,280 --> 00:58:20,880 Speaker 1: cronenberg esque frogs, limping with big hind legs and long, 986 00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:24,640 Speaker 1: skinny ones and noodly arms. And I've seen I've never 987 00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,200 Speaker 1: seen one personally, but I've I've seen photos online and 988 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:31,520 Speaker 1: some of them are totally messed up. They have several 989 00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:34,440 Speaker 1: areas where like, I guess, is it because they can 990 00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:38,080 Speaker 1: get multiple infections exactly? Yeah, so like that what's weird? Like, 991 00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:39,960 Speaker 1: so I was going to say, it's like, this is 992 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:41,439 Speaker 1: a lot of this work was done right near where 993 00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:43,400 Speaker 1: I grew up. This is actually in the foothills, just 994 00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:46,440 Speaker 1: just around south said Jose. And um here in California. 995 00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:48,440 Speaker 1: And I've actually never seen one there. I've only ever 996 00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:50,480 Speaker 1: seen this once and it was in it was in 997 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:53,680 Speaker 1: central Texas. Yeah, and it was a frog that had 998 00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,680 Speaker 1: had five limbs, although the fifth limb was not It 999 00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,120 Speaker 1: was short and stubby, but it was it was is 1000 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,840 Speaker 1: flopping around. No, it was like, you know, I was like, yeah, 1001 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,400 Speaker 1: it's not so bad. It was a decent looking limb. 1002 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,080 Speaker 1: It was a little short, little stubby, but it's still 1003 00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:11,560 Speaker 1: had all five. Digital was like, yeah, yeah, I think 1004 00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:15,400 Speaker 1: it definitely impact locomotion. Yeah, yeah, you probably would go 1005 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,520 Speaker 1: in a lot of circles. It was this one was 1006 00:59:18,600 --> 00:59:20,240 Speaker 1: kind of up and out of the way a little bit, 1007 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:22,280 Speaker 1: and so actually in this case the frog had pretty 1008 00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,040 Speaker 1: good locomotion. Certainly for a lot of these frogs, it's 1009 00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,880 Speaker 1: absolutely going to impact emotion, and of course that probably 1010 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,840 Speaker 1: increases their likelihood of being picked up by some heron 1011 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:34,520 Speaker 1: and then the crane. Yeah, and then the life cycle 1012 00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:37,400 Speaker 1: of the riberias. It's sort of like we've talked about 1013 00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:43,840 Speaker 1: toxoplasmosis the t gan gandha or gandai um that infects 1014 00:59:43,920 --> 00:59:47,000 Speaker 1: rats where it makes them like be chill with cats 1015 00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:48,720 Speaker 1: and then the cats eat them, which is great for 1016 00:59:48,840 --> 00:59:53,640 Speaker 1: the the T. Ganda because it completes life cycle and 1017 00:59:53,680 --> 00:59:57,520 Speaker 1: the cat gut. It is clearly in the parasite favorite 1018 00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,600 Speaker 1: to alter the behavior of the host, increase the likelihood 1019 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,320 Speaker 1: that did to move on to the next stage. And 1020 01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:06,560 Speaker 1: so it's actually for these triumatoid parasites it's definitely to 1021 01:00:06,720 --> 01:00:09,880 Speaker 1: their advantage to cause some sort of locomotory problem on 1022 01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:11,640 Speaker 1: the phone because it increases the chance that that frog 1023 01:00:11,720 --> 01:00:13,840 Speaker 1: is gonna get picked off by a bird, which again, 1024 01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:17,000 Speaker 1: and I've made this argument before, I think is the 1025 01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,840 Speaker 1: best kind of zombie apocalypse science is like some kind 1026 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:25,080 Speaker 1: of parasite that wants us to eat each other basically. Yeah, 1027 01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:27,520 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, and it's just what we see 1028 01:00:28,040 --> 01:00:30,880 Speaker 1: is that if there's a mass resource out there, something 1029 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,560 Speaker 1: is eventually going to evolve to explore the mass resource, 1030 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,600 Speaker 1: and so you know, the human population is it continues 1031 01:00:36,640 --> 01:00:40,040 Speaker 1: to skyrocket, It's like that's that's a lot of protein 1032 01:00:40,120 --> 01:00:43,560 Speaker 1: out there for something to take advantage of. Zombie apocalypse 1033 01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:47,920 Speaker 1: confirmed by Dr Greg Paulli. Uh, he's willing to bet 1034 01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,919 Speaker 1: his credentials on it happening. Yeah, that's that's not quite 1035 01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:57,640 Speaker 1: what I think. Um So, you mentioned to me that 1036 01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:03,080 Speaker 1: there's this folk legend regarding snakes shedding their skin and rejuvenation, 1037 01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,720 Speaker 1: which fits into that thing like when we think of 1038 01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:11,200 Speaker 1: shape shifters. You know, there's something mystical about snakes and 1039 01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:15,480 Speaker 1: how they they'll literally like remove their skin and emerge 1040 01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:19,560 Speaker 1: a new and there's something very creepy about it. Um So, 1041 01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:23,320 Speaker 1: so what's the legend and what's the scientific reality behind 1042 01:01:23,600 --> 01:01:27,320 Speaker 1: snakes and other reptiles and shedding their skin. Yeah, so 1043 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:32,080 Speaker 1: we see snakes associated both with the ideas of rejuvenation 1044 01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:35,440 Speaker 1: and ideas with shape shifting, and they probably stem from 1045 01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,440 Speaker 1: the same basic thing, which is that if a snake 1046 01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,160 Speaker 1: is about to shed, that snake usually becomes very lethargic 1047 01:01:42,960 --> 01:01:46,160 Speaker 1: as the you know, a snake skin. When it sheds 1048 01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,680 Speaker 1: that skin off, there's actually a scale that does go 1049 01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,520 Speaker 1: over the eye, and so as that all starts to 1050 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:54,400 Speaker 1: get ready to shed, they actually really kind of lose 1051 01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:56,240 Speaker 1: their eyesight for a couple of days, and their eyes 1052 01:01:56,360 --> 01:01:58,120 Speaker 1: kind of gray over. They kind of become this like 1053 01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:01,360 Speaker 1: milky white. The whole animal kind of gets this gray appearance. 1054 01:02:01,360 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: So you've got a snake that's now like lethargic gray. 1055 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:09,600 Speaker 1: It's like this thing is gonna die. And then all 1056 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:13,400 Speaker 1: of a sudden it sheds its skin and it's absolutely beautiful, 1057 01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:17,200 Speaker 1: you know. And they haven't eaten for like a week 1058 01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,040 Speaker 1: or two is they were going through this process, and 1059 01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,240 Speaker 1: so now they're like hungary and they're cruising around and 1060 01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,120 Speaker 1: so all of a sudden it's like full of life 1061 01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,280 Speaker 1: and vigor. So you can see how this gets into 1062 01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:30,120 Speaker 1: this idea of rejuvenation. Yeah, yeah, like a phoenix bursting 1063 01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:32,520 Speaker 1: from its old skin exactly. Yeah, I know, that's a 1064 01:02:32,560 --> 01:02:33,880 Speaker 1: that's a great way to look at it. Yeah, And 1065 01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:36,120 Speaker 1: of course the reality is that what's happening is that, 1066 01:02:36,360 --> 01:02:38,640 Speaker 1: you know, the snake has this this sort of dead 1067 01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:41,800 Speaker 1: layer of skin. Yeah, and you know, but that's and 1068 01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:43,560 Speaker 1: this is true of course for reptiles as well, but 1069 01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:46,240 Speaker 1: that's basically this continuous layer, and there's lots of benefits 1070 01:02:46,240 --> 01:02:49,560 Speaker 1: to that, Like, you know, presumably that's that reduces things 1071 01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:51,640 Speaker 1: like water loss, which is great if you're like an 1072 01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,120 Speaker 1: air adapted animal um. And it's also like if you're 1073 01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,640 Speaker 1: picking up parasites, you know, like ectoparasites like ticks and mites, 1074 01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,240 Speaker 1: and they can't get through that thick they're on that layer. 1075 01:03:01,280 --> 01:03:02,880 Speaker 1: But if you shed off that layer, you might be 1076 01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:04,680 Speaker 1: able to lose a whole bunch of these. I see, 1077 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,440 Speaker 1: Oh that's interesting. So there's all these sort of benefits 1078 01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:09,280 Speaker 1: of it. But it's dead skin, so it's not going 1079 01:03:09,320 --> 01:03:11,800 Speaker 1: to grow with the animal. And so once that animal 1080 01:03:11,840 --> 01:03:14,400 Speaker 1: grows a little bit, it needs to shut off that 1081 01:03:14,480 --> 01:03:15,800 Speaker 1: skin and it's going to get rid of some of 1082 01:03:15,800 --> 01:03:18,680 Speaker 1: those ectoparasites, right because i'mlike, because like for most people, 1083 01:03:18,680 --> 01:03:21,520 Speaker 1: our skin is very elastic, so as you grow, it 1084 01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,360 Speaker 1: actually stretches some people get stretch marks as they grow, 1085 01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,080 Speaker 1: they grow too quickly because your your skin is literally 1086 01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:32,400 Speaker 1: stretching for you. Um. And but snakes they don't have 1087 01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:35,680 Speaker 1: that kind of elasticity, right, and which again, but it 1088 01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,640 Speaker 1: has lots of advantages, Like we lose lots of moisture 1089 01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,200 Speaker 1: through our skin. Snake can't. A snake doesn't want to 1090 01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,360 Speaker 1: do that, right because water is probably a hard thing 1091 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,480 Speaker 1: to come and they're cold blooded and they have to, uh, 1092 01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:48,600 Speaker 1: they kind of have to be in the in the 1093 01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:52,320 Speaker 1: heat in order to keep it. So their behaviorally thermoregulating, right, 1094 01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,600 Speaker 1: which is I mean, I think at some level is 1095 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,720 Speaker 1: a big advantage because behavioral thermal regulation means that you know, 1096 01:03:58,120 --> 01:03:59,960 Speaker 1: you can get your energy from the environment as a 1097 01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:03,720 Speaker 1: haus at least what a snake's perspective was, right, You 1098 01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:05,880 Speaker 1: sound like you're on the snake side here. I mean, 1099 01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:10,600 Speaker 1: I'm a little bit partial to our little biased Yeah. Yeah, 1100 01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:14,200 Speaker 1: So as a lot of people might know, like that 1101 01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,880 Speaker 1: that whole symbol for medicine, those two snakes kind of 1102 01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,760 Speaker 1: wrapped around a pole, or the two snakes eating each 1103 01:04:20,800 --> 01:04:24,320 Speaker 1: other's tail. Um, Actually that one's I think that's a 1104 01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:28,200 Speaker 1: different one. That's that's dis Yeah, um. But the caducius 1105 01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,400 Speaker 1: is the too snail or the two snakes wrapped around 1106 01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,000 Speaker 1: a pole kind of facing each other, um. And you 1107 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:39,760 Speaker 1: see it on ambulances at hospitals. It's this a pretty 1108 01:04:39,800 --> 01:04:43,160 Speaker 1: old symbol of medicine. Can you talk a little bit 1109 01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,960 Speaker 1: about how how snakes got associated with medicine like that? 1110 01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:52,320 Speaker 1: So this whole idea of snakes, you know, snakes being 1111 01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:55,280 Speaker 1: associated with rejuvenation, I think we see this popping up 1112 01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:58,840 Speaker 1: in in many cultures. And one of the cultures where 1113 01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:02,960 Speaker 1: it pops up in this sort of Greek and Roman mythology. 1114 01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:07,240 Speaker 1: And so there's this symbol called the rod of Asclepius 1115 01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:10,720 Speaker 1: that is a single snake that's wrapped around this like 1116 01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:14,280 Speaker 1: staff and a Sleepius was the Greek god of healing 1117 01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:17,040 Speaker 1: and medicine, and so totally makes sense that we would 1118 01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:20,040 Speaker 1: have this, you know, this this his rod, that emblem 1119 01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,919 Speaker 1: of a single snake wrapped around this rod as now 1120 01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,760 Speaker 1: like a symbol of medicine. But I think just this 1121 01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:30,680 Speaker 1: idea of like a snake intertwined around a stick, people 1122 01:05:30,720 --> 01:05:33,400 Speaker 1: sort of didn't always realize that like that's specific to 1123 01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:37,040 Speaker 1: this rod of Asclepius. So you also have the Caducius, 1124 01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,640 Speaker 1: which is the two snakes intertwined around the stick. But 1125 01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,520 Speaker 1: the Caducius is actually has nothing to do with Asclepius. 1126 01:05:43,600 --> 01:05:47,760 Speaker 1: That's actually from Hermes. That's Hermes as staff or was 1127 01:05:47,760 --> 01:05:52,280 Speaker 1: a part of her well. So I think it's just like, oh, 1128 01:05:52,400 --> 01:05:55,440 Speaker 1: we need like a Greek like there's this snake stick 1129 01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,840 Speaker 1: image from you know, Greek Roman mythology, and it's really 1130 01:05:58,880 --> 01:06:01,480 Speaker 1: supposed to be the rod of a sleep It's associated 1131 01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:03,960 Speaker 1: with medicine because the sleepy is the god of medicine. 1132 01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,200 Speaker 1: Hermes was actually all about commerce and merchants, right, he 1133 01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,760 Speaker 1: was like the communication. So it's this crazy situation where 1134 01:06:10,800 --> 01:06:13,120 Speaker 1: like we have like that snake motif, but if you 1135 01:06:13,160 --> 01:06:16,200 Speaker 1: actually see both of those snakes, it's just it's really 1136 01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,960 Speaker 1: common and it's mostly in like in sort of Western culture. 1137 01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:20,240 Speaker 1: So like you see this in a lot of Europe, 1138 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:21,880 Speaker 1: and you especially see it in the United States, Like 1139 01:06:22,200 --> 01:06:27,120 Speaker 1: the us UM Public Health Agency, they have their emblem 1140 01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,400 Speaker 1: is the incorrect emblem, so like their actual emblem, And 1141 01:06:30,800 --> 01:06:32,960 Speaker 1: you know, you could argue that maybe this is somewhat 1142 01:06:32,960 --> 01:06:35,160 Speaker 1: ironic given the amount of money that goes towards like 1143 01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:38,800 Speaker 1: medical insurance companies couldn't look up, couldn't look up their 1144 01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,640 Speaker 1: Greek mythology, and ended up actually having an emblem that's 1145 01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,720 Speaker 1: more about commerce and merchants than that's actually about healing 1146 01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:47,920 Speaker 1: and medicine. So true though, when you think about it, 1147 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:50,600 Speaker 1: so true. We don't we we can't do politics on 1148 01:06:50,600 --> 01:06:56,080 Speaker 1: this show. I'm not allowed not No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Um, well, 1149 01:06:56,120 --> 01:07:00,680 Speaker 1: that's that's really interesting. So um, doctors are all doing 1150 01:07:00,720 --> 01:07:05,960 Speaker 1: it wrong. Hospitals, you have been incorrectly using the snakes. Uh. 1151 01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:09,320 Speaker 1: And I mean I'm all for like emblems with more snakes, 1152 01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,439 Speaker 1: but in this case, it's actually we should be going 1153 01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:14,520 Speaker 1: with a single snake model. We should just have I 1154 01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,160 Speaker 1: would like one that's just a wreath of snakes, just 1155 01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:19,160 Speaker 1: as many snakes. I mean, I think we're getting into 1156 01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,800 Speaker 1: like Medusa maybe yeah, yeah, like a Medusa head. That 1157 01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:25,680 Speaker 1: would be cool that. I think if hospitals had like 1158 01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,680 Speaker 1: a really metal Medusa head with a bunch of snakes, 1159 01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:30,919 Speaker 1: I feel a lot more comfortence gonna go over well 1160 01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,000 Speaker 1: in the children's room. Yeah, yeah, Well, thank you so 1161 01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,480 Speaker 1: much for joining us today. Is there any anything you 1162 01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:41,280 Speaker 1: wanna tell listeners to do? Yeah, I would say wherever 1163 01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:42,680 Speaker 1: you are. I mean, you know, as a curator at 1164 01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,200 Speaker 1: a natural history museum. I love museums. Wherever you are, 1165 01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:48,040 Speaker 1: go check out your local natural history museum. Yeah, stay 1166 01:07:48,040 --> 01:07:51,320 Speaker 1: in school, be cool. Check out some reptiles at your 1167 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:57,680 Speaker 1: natural history museum. Sounds good to me. So I'm back 1168 01:07:57,720 --> 01:07:59,840 Speaker 1: with Anna and Scheren, and I'm going to show them 1169 01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:02,160 Speaker 1: at picture of a frog with a bunch of legs. 1170 01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:10,120 Speaker 1: Whoa you just he's just chilling. Man. Ah, there's there's 1171 01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:16,200 Speaker 1: so many and there's like, here's another one. Huh. Frogs 1172 01:08:16,200 --> 01:08:20,559 Speaker 1: were wild? So does this help their lives in any way? 1173 01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,680 Speaker 1: Or doesn't make No, doesn't hinder them then? Or does 1174 01:08:23,680 --> 01:08:26,719 Speaker 1: it just what? It depends? Sometimes they can just they 1175 01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:30,720 Speaker 1: they're just cool with it. They're like, all right, more 1176 01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:34,080 Speaker 1: more legs to dance with or whatever. They never like 1177 01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,320 Speaker 1: chew off a leg to get rid of it. No, 1178 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:39,599 Speaker 1: I don't think so, although sometimes like it it depends 1179 01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:42,080 Speaker 1: like on how lucky or unlucky the frog is, because 1180 01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,160 Speaker 1: like if they have an extra limb, sometimes it just 1181 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:47,240 Speaker 1: doesn't affect them at all, whereas like it can sort 1182 01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,960 Speaker 1: of interfere, like like at this one he's just got 1183 01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:53,240 Speaker 1: like this one buff leg in this one little point 1184 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:58,000 Speaker 1: weird leg. He doesn't work out that like someone skipped, 1185 01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:00,559 Speaker 1: Like you got to pay attention to all five of 1186 01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:06,559 Speaker 1: your legs. Wow, leg day, leg day, leg day, leg day. Yeah, 1187 01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:11,479 Speaker 1: that's what happens when you focus on one leg legs days, 1188 01:09:11,680 --> 01:09:15,400 Speaker 1: legs for days literally like and each leg can be 1189 01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:19,320 Speaker 1: on one day each. Does that happen to any other 1190 01:09:19,360 --> 01:09:23,880 Speaker 1: animal where they grow multiple limbs because of that what 1191 01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:27,839 Speaker 1: you were talking about the because of the the the 1192 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:32,800 Speaker 1: parasitic flatworm, I don't. I don't think so. I think 1193 01:09:32,840 --> 01:09:36,519 Speaker 1: it's specific to frogs because it infects the frog at 1194 01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:40,240 Speaker 1: that um larval stage where it's like their tadpoles, So 1195 01:09:40,320 --> 01:09:42,360 Speaker 1: it inmbeds in the limbuds. So that's what kind of 1196 01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:46,600 Speaker 1: causes that weird like you know, like sprouts into two limbs. 1197 01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:53,680 Speaker 1: Although like um researchers have played around with um oh 1198 01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:56,400 Speaker 1: sort of limb buds and insects and stuff and gotten 1199 01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:01,720 Speaker 1: them to sprout legs. Yeah. Yeah, we don't need more centipedes. 1200 01:10:02,960 --> 01:10:07,040 Speaker 1: We don't need spiders with more legs. I haven't seen that. 1201 01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:11,080 Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to halt. It's just like a scientist 1202 01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:16,400 Speaker 1: like more legs, we need more legs. Too many legs, 1203 01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,880 Speaker 1: too too many. I hear what you're saying. I understand. 1204 01:10:21,400 --> 01:10:24,360 Speaker 1: What about not enough legs? Yeah, what if we did 1205 01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:29,599 Speaker 1: put more legs? Like how centipede but more legs? That's 1206 01:10:29,720 --> 01:10:34,479 Speaker 1: too many? How much is too many legs? Centipedes that 1207 01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:37,080 Speaker 1: even have twelve legs have way more than twelve, Like 1208 01:10:37,120 --> 01:10:40,879 Speaker 1: it's called centipede, like twelve, but it's way more. I think, Yeah, 1209 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:48,400 Speaker 1: it's it's like it's like dozens. Yeah, it doesen't a 1210 01:10:48,479 --> 01:10:53,160 Speaker 1: billion billion legs. You feel like our reptiles only ones 1211 01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:55,160 Speaker 1: that have that capability though, I feel I feel like 1212 01:10:55,280 --> 01:10:59,000 Speaker 1: like lizards can regenerate their tails sometimes, yeah they can, 1213 01:10:59,400 --> 01:11:03,759 Speaker 1: so like they could regenerate their tail, but um, frogs 1214 01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:07,840 Speaker 1: can't actually regenerate their limbs. It's just that when there's well, 1215 01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:11,439 Speaker 1: it's right, it's just that when they're in that tadpole stage, 1216 01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:14,599 Speaker 1: like their limbs are growing um and so like if 1217 01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:18,599 Speaker 1: something like like hangs out in that little limb butt area, 1218 01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:23,559 Speaker 1: it's just like it's gonna maybe sprout into two legs. Wait, 1219 01:11:23,600 --> 01:11:26,080 Speaker 1: so something like a salamander like you're talking about, can 1220 01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,160 Speaker 1: that as well grow multiple legs because it has a 1221 01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:30,439 Speaker 1: lot of a stage. I probably think I would imagine 1222 01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:33,559 Speaker 1: it could. I don't know if this uh flatworm actually infects. 1223 01:11:34,320 --> 01:11:37,320 Speaker 1: It doesn't look like it. It looks like, um, what 1224 01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:41,200 Speaker 1: if they got against frogs? Man? I mean maybe they 1225 01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:44,840 Speaker 1: love frogs. Maybe they do. Maybe they're like I want 1226 01:11:44,840 --> 01:11:48,639 Speaker 1: to get in that sweet frog butt and just live 1227 01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,640 Speaker 1: there and grow multiple legs out of you. I love it. 1228 01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:53,640 Speaker 1: I love your butts so much. I just want to 1229 01:11:53,720 --> 01:12:01,800 Speaker 1: live in your butt. Um. But uh yeah, here's here's 1230 01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:06,320 Speaker 1: another picture if you want it. Just like that's a 1231 01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:09,640 Speaker 1: really inconveniently located if you know what I mean, Like 1232 01:12:09,720 --> 01:12:12,599 Speaker 1: he has a giant penis leg with the hand on it. 1233 01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,719 Speaker 1: Good for good for mating, hope. Yeah, like female frogs. 1234 01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:21,599 Speaker 1: That being like what bound sign me up? Is that 1235 01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:25,920 Speaker 1: your third leg? Yes? Actually yes it is actually yeah, 1236 01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:29,800 Speaker 1: that is exactly what it is. But I imagine the pulse. 1237 01:12:32,320 --> 01:12:36,240 Speaker 1: So you guys got anything to plug? Not and don't 1238 01:12:36,280 --> 01:12:40,280 Speaker 1: say frog limbs. Um, I just want to go back 1239 01:12:40,280 --> 01:12:44,800 Speaker 1: and read animorphs again to my third leg. We're plugging animorphs. 1240 01:12:44,920 --> 01:12:48,280 Speaker 1: I just the covers were so great that I bought 1241 01:12:48,320 --> 01:12:51,160 Speaker 1: I would beg my parents for animals and just flipped 1242 01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:54,320 Speaker 1: through them. That's all. Covers were so good, the cover 1243 01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:57,120 Speaker 1: and then the little flip book in the corners where 1244 01:12:57,120 --> 01:12:59,800 Speaker 1: you're like, and it's a person. But now to beat 1245 01:13:00,200 --> 01:13:01,760 Speaker 1: That's all I was thinking about when you were talking 1246 01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:04,920 Speaker 1: about people. I think they're animals. I was like, maybe 1247 01:13:04,920 --> 01:13:08,280 Speaker 1: that's the author of animals. Yeah, maybe animals turned us 1248 01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:17,840 Speaker 1: into turn everybody into furries. Yeah. Well, on that note, Um, 1249 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:21,920 Speaker 1: we host a podcast together called Ethnically Ambiguous. Yeah, Anna 1250 01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:24,439 Speaker 1: is on it. I am on it. There you could 1251 01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:27,479 Speaker 1: say they're both on it. Really say we host it together. 1252 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:32,559 Speaker 1: On it. It's on my Heart Radio comedy podcast nowhek's 1253 01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:35,519 Speaker 1: onhar Radio Economy podcast Network. And you can find this 1254 01:13:35,640 --> 01:13:39,600 Speaker 1: anywhere you find your podcast. We're on iTunes, Stitcher, Spotify. 1255 01:13:40,760 --> 01:13:44,160 Speaker 1: Our website I Thinically Ambigie was pod dot com. You 1256 01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:46,840 Speaker 1: can follow us on Twitter ethnically am A m B. 1257 01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:49,880 Speaker 1: Follow us on Instagram Ethnically am big A m B 1258 01:13:50,000 --> 01:13:53,720 Speaker 1: I G And we post episodes every Monday and Wednesday. Yeah. 1259 01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:55,479 Speaker 1: And you know it's a show all about being from 1260 01:13:55,520 --> 01:13:58,520 Speaker 1: the Middle East and being children of immigrants or immigrants, 1261 01:13:58,600 --> 01:14:01,639 Speaker 1: and um, yeah, it's talk a lot about that those 1262 01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:03,840 Speaker 1: experiences and a lot of like Middle Easter news that 1263 01:14:03,880 --> 01:14:06,479 Speaker 1: doesn't really get covered in the mainstream media, and we 1264 01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:09,120 Speaker 1: keep it fun. We have cool Yeah, we have like 1265 01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:13,439 Speaker 1: guests that are usually people of color, immigrants, just highlighting 1266 01:14:13,439 --> 01:14:16,400 Speaker 1: their cool work. We just had some really cool guests 1267 01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:19,000 Speaker 1: on last months of check it out. Yeah, and I'm 1268 01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:22,240 Speaker 1: at Anna hosting on Twitter A N N A h 1269 01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:25,080 Speaker 1: O S S N e h. And I'm Shiro Hero 1270 01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:28,160 Speaker 1: on Instagram s h E E r O h E 1271 01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:31,320 Speaker 1: r oh and on Twitter, I'm sure Hero six six 1272 01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:39,240 Speaker 1: six nice. That's super metal, hardcore. And you can follow 1273 01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:44,200 Speaker 1: Creature Feature on the Twitter at Creature feet pod not 1274 01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:50,280 Speaker 1: like feet but like a t this episode. Yeah, and 1275 01:14:50,400 --> 01:14:56,799 Speaker 1: it's pork uh and on Instagram and on our website 1276 01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:01,920 Speaker 1: Creature Feature uh pod. And we will be back next 1277 01:15:02,000 --> 01:15:05,680 Speaker 1: Wednesday with more gross stuff. Thank you so much for 1278 01:15:05,720 --> 01:15:09,439 Speaker 1: having us, Thank you guys for joining me. And thanks 1279 01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,919 Speaker 1: to the Space Classics for their awesome song Exo Lumina