WEBVTT - Are Shared Ownership Properties Actually Worth it? 

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Welcome to MEREN Talk

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<v Speaker 1>to Your Money, the personal finance edition of Merin Talks

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<v Speaker 1>Money and this bonus podcast, we talk about the best

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<v Speaker 1>strategy for making the most of your money. Ameren Sunset

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<v Speaker 1>Web and with me senior reporter and author of the

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<v Speaker 1>Money Distilled newsletter, John Staffact.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi John, Hi Man.

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<v Speaker 3>John.

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<v Speaker 1>As you know, we are continuing on with our housing

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<v Speaker 1>series and we have got another very special expert guest

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<v Speaker 1>on today.

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<v Speaker 3>Today we'll be speaking with Ray Bulger. Ray is the

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<v Speaker 3>senior Mortgage Technical Manager Senior.

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<v Speaker 1>Mortgage Technical Manager that's QUB title at independent mortgage broker

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<v Speaker 1>John Charcoal and is regarded as not just an authority,

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<v Speaker 1>but the authority within the mortgage industry. We've asked Ray

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<v Speaker 1>Endaalba's answer one of our listener questions.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much for being on the show. Ray,

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<v Speaker 3>We appreciate it. So here we go. Here's the question.

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<v Speaker 4>Him Merrily and John. My name is Ulu and I'm

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<v Speaker 4>London based. I'm looking to buy a flat soon and

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<v Speaker 4>was considering shared ownership. I was wondering what are the

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<v Speaker 4>pros and cons of shared ownership and would you consider

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<v Speaker 4>it over traditional mortgages.

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<v Speaker 1>My instinct there, and we'll get along to this, but

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<v Speaker 1>my instinct is don't touch it with a barge pole,

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<v Speaker 1>run for your life, and read somewhere else instead. But

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<v Speaker 1>you may have a more nuanced view, So I'm wondered

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<v Speaker 1>maybe we could start with perhaps you could.

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<v Speaker 3>Just explain to us what is shared ownership? What does

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<v Speaker 3>that mean? Who are you sharing it with?

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<v Speaker 5>Shared ownership basically means that you buy a property which

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<v Speaker 5>will at the moment be a leasehold property, whether it's

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<v Speaker 5>a house or flat, but with the rules that the

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<v Speaker 5>governments bring in shortly, I guess that would become common

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<v Speaker 5>hold in future, and you normally buy it in conjunction

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<v Speaker 5>with a housing association. You would buy between ten and

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<v Speaker 5>seventy five percent of the property, and the housing association

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<v Speaker 5>owns the rest. You would probably need a mortgage between

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<v Speaker 5>buy your share of the property, and it is possible

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<v Speaker 5>to get a mortgage of up to one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 5>of the amount you're boring. The housing association will charge

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<v Speaker 5>and rent on the balance, and normally rent will be

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<v Speaker 5>a subsidized rate, which frankly is the only way the

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<v Speaker 5>multipayments on this full of proposition work. So that's MutS

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<v Speaker 5>and bolts bit.

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<v Speaker 1>So you find a house or a flat, it's normally

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<v Speaker 1>going to be in some kind of housing association estate.

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<v Speaker 1>I would guess it's going to be housing a station

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<v Speaker 1>the tional council approved. You find a house that you

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<v Speaker 1>would like to have, you can't afford to buy the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing. You look at what you can afford to buy,

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<v Speaker 1>You take out a mortgage for that amount of the

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<v Speaker 1>ten thirty percent whatever it is.

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<v Speaker 3>The housing A Station continues to own the rest.

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<v Speaker 1>You pay pro rata rent for that section. And then

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<v Speaker 1>so you end up being liable for the mortgage on

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<v Speaker 1>your share for the rent on the share that you

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<v Speaker 1>don't own. And then because it's a lease hold, presumably

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<v Speaker 1>there is ground rent and service charges and all that

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing as well upkeep of cumula areas, and

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<v Speaker 1>so you then pay your pro writ share of that.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that right?

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<v Speaker 5>No, Unfortunately that's not so. One of the downside is

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<v Speaker 5>that even though you may only own as little as

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<v Speaker 5>ten percent of the property, you are responsible for one

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<v Speaker 5>hundred percent of the service charge, one hundred percent of

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<v Speaker 5>the ground rent, one hundred percent of the maintenance such

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<v Speaker 5>as any work you want to do on your property,

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<v Speaker 5>such as you're decorating it. So generally speaking, buying as

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<v Speaker 5>little as ten percent, whilst it's an option, frankly, I

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<v Speaker 5>think in most cases makes little sense.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, I calling you that, and I just wanted to

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<v Speaker 3>hear you say it.

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<v Speaker 1>So, if you have your shared ownership house and you

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<v Speaker 1>put in a new kitchen which increases the value of

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<v Speaker 1>the house by say ten percent, and you only own

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<v Speaker 1>twenty percent of the house, the other eighty percent of

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<v Speaker 1>the uplift effectively goes to the housing association, and you

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<v Speaker 1>would need to buy it back when you increase your

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<v Speaker 1>share of the ownership.

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<v Speaker 5>Yes, if you did a major refurbishment like putting in

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<v Speaker 5>a new kitchen, then it would usually be possible to

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<v Speaker 5>actually have evaluation pre and post and you would get

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<v Speaker 5>part of the benefit of that. And if you have

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<v Speaker 5>normal decorations, then yes, you're responsible for all of that.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So just to be clear, this all sounds insanely expensive,

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<v Speaker 1>and I can see how it might make sense if

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<v Speaker 1>you genuinely believed that over time you were going to

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<v Speaker 1>buy the full one hundred percent, and it was some

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<v Speaker 1>way you genuinely wanted to live for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>and the estate in which you had chosen to live

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<v Speaker 1>was extremely well managed, and you didn't have long term

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<v Speaker 1>service change problems, and if he didn't have, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>cladding problems. But out with all those things, and of

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<v Speaker 1>course house price continuing to go up, so the thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Is worth something.

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<v Speaker 1>When you try and sell it out With all that,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems insane. Why would you not just rent somewhere?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, because you're effectively a renter, you're not an owner,

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<v Speaker 1>you have none of the control, you have none of

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<v Speaker 1>the power, and your expenses that seem to me extremely

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<v Speaker 1>a high, particularly as mortgage rates rise.

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<v Speaker 3>What am I missing?

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<v Speaker 5>I don't think you're missing very much at all. The

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<v Speaker 5>one thing perhaps you are missing is that what you

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<v Speaker 5>do have with shared ownership, which you don't have with renting,

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<v Speaker 5>is security of tenure. That's perhaps the main benefit. But

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<v Speaker 5>you're paying an awful lot for that security of tenure.

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<v Speaker 5>So I think what's also worth bearing your mind is

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<v Speaker 5>that what we find is a lot of first time

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<v Speaker 5>buyers is that they do have options they don't realize

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<v Speaker 5>they have. You can, for example, get one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 5>mortgages in certain circumstances. There are other lenders that will

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<v Speaker 5>offer you a mortgage with just the five thousand pounds deposit.

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<v Speaker 5>So for some people, because they think the maximum they

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<v Speaker 5>can borrow is nine ninety five percent, there may be

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<v Speaker 5>another option even without a posit. Likewise, even though in

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<v Speaker 5>many cases the maximum you can borrow is four and

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<v Speaker 5>a half times income, there are other lenders that will

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<v Speaker 5>lend you up to six times income. So if your

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<v Speaker 5>problem is not enough income, that may be avail hand it. Likewise,

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<v Speaker 5>you can get mortgages on what's known as a sore

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<v Speaker 5>propriety aura basis, where a family member helps you with

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<v Speaker 5>the affordability. So before contemplating show ownership, I would recommend

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<v Speaker 5>that anybody who's considering this talks to a good independent

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<v Speaker 5>broker who has an understanding of the whole market and

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<v Speaker 5>looks at all the other options and only looks I've shared,

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<v Speaker 5>I've really known the options work.

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<v Speaker 3>For So I just want to ask you one more question.

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<v Speaker 1>For John is champion the fit to get into shared

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<v Speaker 1>ownerseral questions, but I want to ask you one more

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<v Speaker 1>before I let him loose. So, if you have to

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<v Speaker 1>buy your share from an approved provider of shared ownership housing,

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<v Speaker 1>which is going to be a local counsel or housing

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<v Speaker 1>association etc.

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<v Speaker 3>When it comes to.

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<v Speaker 1>Sell, and is lightly what I'm say, you just have

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<v Speaker 1>no control here when it comes to sell. Presumably you

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<v Speaker 1>can again only sell that share to a buyer who

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<v Speaker 1>is being pre approved by the.

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<v Speaker 3>Council or housing association.

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<v Speaker 1>So you're not particularly free when you'll buy, You're not

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<v Speaker 1>particularly free when you're living there, and you're certainly not

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<v Speaker 1>free to sell to anybody when it comes to selling,

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<v Speaker 1>and that might make it difficult.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that fair I just been two down on this.

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<v Speaker 5>No, that's absolutely right. So you will certainly first have

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<v Speaker 5>to offer the property to the housing association and if

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<v Speaker 5>they can't find a buyer within say six months, sometimes

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<v Speaker 5>you may have an option to sell on there pro market,

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<v Speaker 5>but that clearly is a restraint restriction or potential buyers

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<v Speaker 5>and therefore the price you might get a property. One

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<v Speaker 5>other thing to consider is if you do want to staircase,

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<v Speaker 5>which means buying a further share identically not prove affordability.

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<v Speaker 5>And one thing I would strongly recommend anybody contemplating buying

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<v Speaker 5>any property frankly, but in particular shared owners, is to

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<v Speaker 5>make sure they use an independent solicitor, not a solicitor

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<v Speaker 5>recommended by the housing association, so we know you're getting genuine,

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<v Speaker 5>independent advice rather than perhaps advice from somebody who have

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<v Speaker 5>a conflict of interest.

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<v Speaker 3>Is suggesting that you can't trust your local housing association.

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<v Speaker 5>Ray, Well, we all know some of the problems with

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<v Speaker 5>conflict of interest. Many of the problems with Brown Went

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<v Speaker 5>dubbling every ten years were cause by buyers using solicit

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<v Speaker 5>of recommended by the developer.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Ray, is it also the case that more often than not,

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<v Speaker 1>when you enter a shared ownership contract like this, you're

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<v Speaker 1>buying a new house, what's the percentative new versus old?

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<v Speaker 1>Because of course there's another whole area of jeopardy if

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<v Speaker 1>you put your hard down cash into a brand new house.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I don't know what the statistics are at the moment,

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<v Speaker 1>but historically a new house has lost sixteen percent of

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<v Speaker 1>its value the second that broke and puts the nice

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<v Speaker 1>Shanny keys in your hand.

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<v Speaker 3>So that doesn't help.

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<v Speaker 5>No, that's certainly true in them Georgia of cases, you

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<v Speaker 5>would be looking at a new property. And of course

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<v Speaker 5>one of the benefits if one's going to look at

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<v Speaker 5>positive here is if you're buying new property, what's the

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<v Speaker 5>point you make about value is relevant. You will probably

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<v Speaker 5>have relatively low heating costs because one you've propped it

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<v Speaker 5>up to comply with current government regulations.

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<v Speaker 3>That's about the best effort of grasping in the silver

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<v Speaker 3>lining I've ever heard on this podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Ray, Thank you, No, I was tinking to my original

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<v Speaker 1>analysis here, kids run for the hills, John.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't have that many more questions, but

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<v Speaker 2>one thing I would ask. The shared ownation has been

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<v Speaker 2>around for actually quite a long time now, and so

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<v Speaker 2>clearly people are using it. So I'm just wanting in

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<v Speaker 2>practical terms, either the volume of horror stories is not

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<v Speaker 2>as high as I think. I certainly felt that it

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<v Speaker 2>would be five years old from when it first became popular,

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<v Speaker 2>So I mean, why do you think that is? Why

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<v Speaker 2>is it still around?

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<v Speaker 5>Anybody who is struggling to find a deposit and affordability

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<v Speaker 5>may find it. The fullibility works a bit better with

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<v Speaker 5>shared ownership. But I think the point that was made

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<v Speaker 5>earlier in terms of perhaps thinking of renting until you

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<v Speaker 5>can afford to buy a property in the ordany way,

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<v Speaker 5>is the key one. If you buy a shared ownership

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<v Speaker 5>property and then at a later stage you're ready to

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<v Speaker 5>buy a property in a normal way, you will no

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<v Speaker 5>longer be a first time buyer, which means you may

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<v Speaker 5>then end up paying more stampfew from land tax, which

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<v Speaker 5>is frankly the main benefit these days in being a

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<v Speaker 5>first time buyer. So I think that is really a

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<v Speaker 5>key point. If you can't afford to buy property in

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<v Speaker 5>the ordiny way, bearing in mind all the legal implications

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<v Speaker 5>and problems even when you want to staircase up when

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<v Speaker 5>you want to sell, that's a strong argument for renting

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<v Speaker 5>rather than shared ownership.

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<v Speaker 2>In my view, it strikes me that one of the

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<v Speaker 2>big big problems is the complexities of the legal seed.

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<v Speaker 2>And obviously a lot of these properties are also new

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<v Speaker 2>and a lot of them are flats and lease orders. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>from your experience, who do mortgage lend does feel about this?

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<v Speaker 2>Is it hard that you get a mortgage and shared

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<v Speaker 2>donership proper? These are the actually relatively relaxed about it.

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<v Speaker 5>Well, there are plenty of lenders who will lend on

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<v Speaker 5>shared ownership of properties. Building societies tend to have the

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<v Speaker 5>line's share of this for the market. So whilst not

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<v Speaker 5>every lender will provide you with the mortgage on the

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<v Speaker 5>shared ownership property, there is plenty of choice, and there

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<v Speaker 5>are a few lenders who will actually give you one

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<v Speaker 5>hundred percent mortgage on the part you're buying, although most

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<v Speaker 5>will limited denied you one ninety five percent. So the

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<v Speaker 5>mortgage is not in itself a problem. However, you will

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<v Speaker 5>probably pay a higher interest rate because you've got restaurants.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much to no. I think that's that's

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<v Speaker 2>all my questions, and I basically have to agree with

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<v Speaker 2>both of you. It sounds like very much a last

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<v Speaker 2>resort chained of option.

0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:44.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean all I would say that I'm amazed

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<v Speaker 1>that Ray has managed to find a negative to shared

0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.080
<v Speaker 1>ownership that I hadn't even thought of, which was not

0:11:49.080 --> 0:11:50.960
<v Speaker 1>being a first time buyer anymore and losing your stamp

0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.439
<v Speaker 1>duty advantage. So the unusual, we have someone on who

0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:56.760
<v Speaker 1>can find a negative about something that John and I

0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.280
<v Speaker 1>hadn't thought of given away that are minds except we

0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:00.880
<v Speaker 1>hugely appreciate that too.

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<v Speaker 3>Great.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much, indeed, and John, as usual, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you and thanks for listening to this week's Maren Talk

0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.200
<v Speaker 1>to Your Money. If you like our show, rate review

0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:14.920
<v Speaker 1>and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Also shure to

0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.360
<v Speaker 1>follow me and John on X or Twitter. I'm at

0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Maren sw John is John Underscore Steppeic. This episode was

0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.959
<v Speaker 1>produced by Summersadi and Moses and special thanks to Raybel Jerk.

0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Questions and comments on this show and all our shows

0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.160
<v Speaker 1>is always welcome. Our show email is merin Money at

0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:31.200
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg dot net