Speaker 1: Mini, This is such a good idea. I love the
Speaker 1: questions and they do draw out a frightening the confessional
Speaker 1: quality because their their tough ones to grab with. They
Speaker 1: adapted prost questions or it's just the same concept. It
Speaker 1: was the concept of the prosting questionnaire, but I needed
Speaker 1: to modify them because there were other things that I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask, and good God, there's so much that
Speaker 1: I want to ask you and talk about. I feel
Speaker 1: that really specific questions can elicit answers to questions other
Speaker 1: than the ones asked. If you see that, absolutely, and
Speaker 1: you've calibrated these well, because there are maddening in various ways,
Speaker 1: and ones that I hadn't really contemplated in all cases.
Speaker 1: But I'll give it a world. Hello, I'm Mini Driver,
Speaker 1: and welcome to many questions. I've always loved priest questionnaire.
Speaker 1: It was originally an eighteenth century parlor game meant to
Speaker 1: reveal an individual's true nature. But with so many questions,
Speaker 1: there wasn't really an opportunity to expand on anything. So
Speaker 1: I took the format of proofs questionnaire and adapted what
Speaker 1: I think are seven of the most important questions you
Speaker 1: could ever ask someone. They are when and where were
Speaker 1: you happiest. What is the quality you like least about yourself?
Speaker 1: What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? What
Speaker 1: question would you most like answered, What person, place, or
Speaker 1: experience has shaped you the most? What would be your
Speaker 1: last meal? And can you tell me something in your
Speaker 1: life that has grown out of a personal disaster. The
Speaker 1: more people we ask, the more we begin to see
Speaker 1: what makes us similar and what makes us individual. I've
Speaker 1: gathered a group of really remarkable people who am honored
Speaker 1: and humbled to have had a chance to engage with,
Speaker 1: and today I'm talking to Ronan Farah. Ronan is an
Speaker 1: extraordinary polymath. He is a Rhodes scholar. He has worked
Speaker 1: for the Obama administration, and he's been a voice actor
Speaker 1: in Miasaki films. As a journalist, he conducted a revelatory
Speaker 1: investigation into sexual assault against women working in film, and
Speaker 1: in doing so he acted as an empowering ally to
Speaker 1: those women. The work on this investigation also won him
Speaker 1: a Politzer Prize. He has been a speechwriter and advisor,
Speaker 1: has a j d from Yale, law, a PhD from Oxford,
Speaker 1: and as I learned my conversation with him today, He
Speaker 1: is also a songwriter. His resume speaks to his rigorous
Speaker 1: intellect and curiosity, and in action he illuminates stories and
Speaker 1: ideas that need to be heard, whether he's advocating for
Speaker 1: the protection of refugees, is a political advisor, or unmasking
Speaker 1: insurgents of the US capital. As an investigative reporter, Ronan
Speaker 1: tirelessly pursues truth, even if and oftentimes when it means
Speaker 1: speaking that truth to power. I go backwards and forwards
Speaker 1: on the first question of where and when were you happiest,
Speaker 1: because we're so encouraged to be happy all the time,
Speaker 1: rather than the place that we're headed. I don't think
Speaker 1: that's fair. Well, not to be terribly pedantic right out
Speaker 1: of the gate, but you know, what is happiness is
Speaker 1: what you come do very quickly in answering this question,
Speaker 1: or I did anyway, And I also I found it
Speaker 1: surprisingly hard to answer by any metric. You know that
Speaker 1: there are a lot of professional moments of fulfillment that
Speaker 1: came to mind as obvious answers. Getting a tape of
Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein trying to entrap a woman after months and
Speaker 1: months of trying to get that those are obviously moments
Speaker 1: of fulfillment of a kind, But then I think was
Speaker 1: I happy then? Because those high points were also marked
Speaker 1: by a lot of stress and can also be frankly
Speaker 1: kind of scary. I mean, I think both on a
Speaker 1: level that any writer would relate to, where you're in
Speaker 1: the zone crafting a scene, but also you're on a
Speaker 1: terrifying deadline and it's stressful and you're afraid you're going
Speaker 1: to fail, and is a lot writing on it, I think,
Speaker 1: particularly when it's investigative reporting and in ways that are
Speaker 1: unique to my kind of work, which is very combative
Speaker 1: in some ways, and you know, there are sometimes private
Speaker 1: investigators hired to follow me around and smear me in
Speaker 1: various ways. So those moments of fulfillment are often entwined
Speaker 1: with a lot of anxiety. And I don't know if
Speaker 1: happiness quite captures what those moments are, and I don't
Speaker 1: think they're mutually exclusive. No, I agree, it is part
Speaker 1: of the satisfaction of doing an incredibly hard job that
Speaker 1: is dangerous and frightening at times but also incredibly necessary,
Speaker 1: and then that paying off. I think there are ways
Speaker 1: in which that's a healthy happiness. You know, if you
Speaker 1: are doing something whatever your profession is that you feel
Speaker 1: is contributing in a positive way to other people's lives.
Speaker 1: That's a great thing to nurture in yourself. On the
Speaker 1: other hand, that can take a lot of unhealthy forms.
Speaker 1: You know, I know and really respect a lot of
Speaker 1: great war reporters who famously do get a high off
Speaker 1: of being in conflict zones. And you know, during time
Speaker 1: I've spent in some those types of places, you encounter
Speaker 1: a lot of those people who are in it, maybe
Speaker 1: for all the right reasons, but also I think you know,
Speaker 1: if they were to search themselves on a personal level,
Speaker 1: it's probably not the healthiest thing that they need to
Speaker 1: be in those high octane places all the time. So
Speaker 1: is that happiness or is that kind of getting a
Speaker 1: certain kind of high again, regardless of how noble the intentions,
Speaker 1: And we all benefit so richly from people who take
Speaker 1: those risks. I just know plenty of people who thrive
Speaker 1: in those settings and do us all a public service.
Speaker 1: But also I think it comes from a place of
Speaker 1: brokenness in part. You know, I don't know that that's
Speaker 1: anything to be discouraged, because we do all benefits so much.
Speaker 1: You know, the world is a better place for that.
Speaker 1: But can you box that into a simple term like happiness.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know, I was going to say,
Speaker 1: maybe happiness expands or retracts according to the person. The
Speaker 1: intense joy that I felt when I had my son,
Speaker 1: it's different from the intense joy that I felt when
Speaker 1: I traveled to Cambodia with Oxfam years ago and there
Speaker 1: was these blacklisted workers. They'd all been fired from the
Speaker 1: sweatshops for, you know, not wanting to work for a
Speaker 1: dollar a day and be able to take bath and breaks.
Speaker 1: And they started this factory and I arrived there on
Speaker 1: my birthday and they made this whole party for me,
Speaker 1: and I spoke a bit of French, but they were
Speaker 1: all speaking camar I mean, it was. It was one
Speaker 1: of the most intensely happy experiences of my life. But
Speaker 1: it was completely different to having my son. And was
Speaker 1: that happy because you felt you were doing something that mattered,
Speaker 1: that was in the public interest. Yeah, it was. All
Speaker 1: of these things were wrapped up in one the idea
Speaker 1: that these women had started their own factory. It was
Speaker 1: my birthday that I thought had been the last by
Speaker 1: traveling to the other side of the world, and the
Speaker 1: fact that they'd used what little resources they had to
Speaker 1: make me a cake and decorate the factory, and we
Speaker 1: were just women, not speaking the same language, but celebrating.
Speaker 1: So it was a convergence of a lot of different
Speaker 1: kinds of happiness. Is that's exactly and maybe that's it
Speaker 1: is It is pluralistic happiness. I also got to thinking,
Speaker 1: in reflecting on this question now harderist answer, I think
Speaker 1: I allowed a lot of very happy moments to be
Speaker 1: shadowed by anxiety or sadness in a way that I
Speaker 1: wish weren't the case. You know, simple things like getting
Speaker 1: recognized by fellow journalists, are finally getting that graduate degree
Speaker 1: after seven years of work. That's gratifying but also feels
Speaker 1: more like relief than happiness in the moment, and I
Speaker 1: think I allow those moments to immediately turn to thoughts
Speaker 1: of not even on a totally conscious level, it's just
Speaker 1: sort of hovering there, What am I going to do next?
Speaker 1: How can I be this useful again? Can I match this?
Speaker 1: You know? All these So this is this is really
Speaker 1: interesting because do you think I'm trying to think of
Speaker 1: a different word than overachiever, Because there's I don't think
Speaker 1: there's any such thing. There is just doing the things
Speaker 1: which you feel compelled to do. But you have done
Speaker 1: an enormous amount of things that are big and extraordinary,
Speaker 1: and you've done them very young. Do you think that
Speaker 1: because you do so many different things that are big,
Speaker 1: that their bullets are and their New York bari and
Speaker 1: their modeling college and their road scholarly and their advocacy
Speaker 1: and there's global in the title, do you think that
Speaker 1: the bar is set incredibly high for what might be
Speaker 1: perceived as happiness for you because of how you'm roll? Yes,
Speaker 1: And you know, there are all these studies over the
Speaker 1: years of people who are happiest and least happy, And
Speaker 1: of course it doesn't track to a particular worldview of
Speaker 1: success that or commendations that that you just kind of
Speaker 1: touched on. You know, I think they are simpler and
Speaker 1: maybe more essential things to be happy about, and I
Speaker 1: don't know that I'm always the best of being in
Speaker 1: touch with them, But ultimately that is what I came
Speaker 1: down to and deciding how to answer this question, I
Speaker 1: ultimately came to thinking about really simple pleasures and times
Speaker 1: and places. You know, that memory came to mind of
Speaker 1: being a teenager lying in bed in my childhood home,
Speaker 1: just crushing a box of Mint Milano cookies and playing
Speaker 1: this game. I remember vividly. It was a visual novel
Speaker 1: on the Nintendo DS called Phoenix Right Ace Attorney, which
Speaker 1: is a bonkers Japanese courtroom draw. There will be some
Speaker 1: tiny segment of your audience that gets that reference, and
Speaker 1: I I was really content then, I think in a
Speaker 1: very kind of quiet, low key way, and is this
Speaker 1: too off color? Also in my teens, you know, making
Speaker 1: out in a bathroom with a crush during a house party.
Speaker 1: That was like some things like that, And I think
Speaker 1: I could probably do a better job in my adult
Speaker 1: life of embracing those small and simple moments. Now, you
Speaker 1: know what. I love that your paradigm runs from busting
Speaker 1: predators to making it in a buthroom when you're a teenager,
Speaker 1: to playing Nintendo DS. Like, I love that paradigm, and
Speaker 1: it's why you're such an interesting person because that's where
Speaker 1: you live. You can't do all three of those things
Speaker 1: at once, I've found, but there is time enough in
Speaker 1: life to multitats. Yeah, that was That's a very spec
Speaker 1: That would be a very specific kind of multit It
Speaker 1: would require a lot of just manual dexterity. It would
Speaker 1: need another, It would need at least two more of Yes, Yes,
Speaker 1: this is a hard question. What is the quality you
Speaker 1: like least about yourself? I found this much easier to
Speaker 1: answer because there are so many rich and wonderfully terrible
Speaker 1: things about me to choose from. Lack of punctuality is
Speaker 1: up there. Not in important professional things, but in most
Speaker 1: other things. I am always late, and I think that
Speaker 1: flows from a broader issue. I see this trait in
Speaker 1: a lot of super ambitious people. You kind of think
Speaker 1: you can accomplish it all in any amount of time.
Speaker 1: So it's like meeting in ten minutes, Well, let me
Speaker 1: start writing the Great American novel in those ten minutes.
Speaker 1: There's a fair amount of perfectionism run amuck. I think
Speaker 1: in me that that leads to a lot of procrastination.
Speaker 1: You know, every book that I've done has been a
Speaker 1: year late. This is obviously nothing new if you talk
Speaker 1: to any writer. But I've let it get to the
Speaker 1: point of several times in life where it really does
Speaker 1: threaten to sort of cause real problems. And I think
Speaker 1: that is an offshoot of that same worldview of like
Speaker 1: I can do anything in any amount of time. So
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave it till later. And also it's got
Speaker 1: to be so good, so I'm afraid to start. I
Speaker 1: think the big one, though many as I really thought
Speaker 1: deeply sort of what's most consequential is an inability to
Speaker 1: be in the moment. I do a lot of songwriting,
Speaker 1: and it really shows up there. Especially I'm used to
Speaker 1: brute forcing things by overthinking them, and I think that
Speaker 1: that actually can work well in a writing and a
Speaker 1: particularly a lyrical context. You know, I like narrative and
Speaker 1: character driven lyrics and and that can involve a cerebral approach.
Speaker 1: But as a performer in particular, it can be a handicap,
Speaker 1: I think, just even not knowing that much except from Afar,
Speaker 1: you know, just growing up around actors, I see this.
Speaker 1: You need to be spontaneous and trust yourself to fail
Speaker 1: and be rough around edges, and that doesn't come naturally
Speaker 1: to me. It's why I really respect actors, you know,
Speaker 1: the the Udha Hogan thing of being present and being
Speaker 1: just in touch with your emotions in a really raw
Speaker 1: an unfiltered way. You know, I don't know about acting specifically.
Speaker 1: I've I've done a little light voice acting, anime voice
Speaker 1: acting of all, you know, and we've both worked with Miyazaki.
Speaker 1: What a thrill right beyond I couldn't believe that you
Speaker 1: work with his son and with him, and I couldn't
Speaker 1: believe that you've done that at all, Like it was
Speaker 1: shocking and amazing to discover that. I mean, it's, you know,
Speaker 1: a grand statement to say worked with them. I did
Speaker 1: tiny parts in the American dubs, but I would lick
Speaker 1: stamps for Studio Jibli that their work is so incredible. No, no,
Speaker 1: I mean I did the American dubs to on Princess Mononoki,
Speaker 1: but when he came to your part, I love that.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm an actor. Like the fact that you,
Speaker 1: how dare you? How dare you have gone to Oxford
Speaker 1: and also done a Miyazaki movie and also want upon
Speaker 1: it set those kinds of little exposures to that sort
Speaker 1: of performing aside, I would probably have trouble ever delivering
Speaker 1: a truly great piece of acting, because I do think
Speaker 1: I tend to be too cerebral and in my head
Speaker 1: too much of the time. And you know, I could
Speaker 1: perhaps do things that are technically great, but that next
Speaker 1: level of transcending technique is a real reach for me
Speaker 1: and I frankly don't know. Maybe you have advice on
Speaker 1: this how to get past that? Well, I would say
Speaker 1: as any therapist would advise you. Awareness is the only
Speaker 1: place to begin as an actor. Awareness of like what
Speaker 1: it is that you're doing wrong. God, I remember I
Speaker 1: was invited by this amazing artistic director CaAl Richard Air,
Speaker 1: who was the artistic director of the National Theater in London,
Speaker 1: and I was invited to this cabal of actors to
Speaker 1: to work on Shakespeare. And you know, I duly did
Speaker 1: my my balcony scene and at the end of it
Speaker 1: he was like, great, this is so great because it's
Speaker 1: so important to see how not to do this scene.
Speaker 1: It's so important to see how terrible it can be
Speaker 1: when you know all the rules of iambic pentameter ignored.
Speaker 1: And I was. I was so embarrassed and so crushed.
Speaker 1: It's devastating. Here's the deal. He's absolutely right, and it
Speaker 1: forced me to study Shakespeare with ten times more attention
Speaker 1: than I had before. So I think awareness of the
Speaker 1: place to begin, and that requires humility, and it requires acknowledgement,
Speaker 1: and then you just begin. And I think, then desire,
Speaker 1: if you really, if there was something that you really
Speaker 1: wanted to do, you would figure it out. You know.
Speaker 1: I obviously this is most relevant in my life, not
Speaker 1: because I'm you know, trying to crack the nutb could
Speaker 1: I ever theoretically be a great actor, but but because
Speaker 1: in so many of the things I do, I do
Speaker 1: think you need to possess both of those abilities, being
Speaker 1: able to rigorously overthink everything and be precise and technical,
Speaker 1: and then also knowing when to let go and just
Speaker 1: be emotional and honest and in the moment. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think you need that in any profession where you
Speaker 1: have to communicate, whether it's to an audience as I
Speaker 1: sometimes have to, or in reporting when you're trying to
Speaker 1: connect with someone and unearth what's going on in a situation.
Speaker 1: And so I'll take those thoughts to heart. You know,
Speaker 1: I think I sometimes want it too much. You know
Speaker 1: that the quality you described of do you do want
Speaker 1: it enough? I think sometimes for me that leads to
Speaker 1: overthinking and not being able to just clear your mind. Well,
Speaker 1: in that case, you know, I prescribe, I don't know,
Speaker 1: yoga and a few more milkshakes, right I relaxed? There
Speaker 1: you go? That would be three Also a note, I
Speaker 1: will take perfect This is my this is my therapy.
Speaker 1: You're right, you just need therapy. You don't need therapy
Speaker 1: per se. I'm fascinated to hear how you answer this.
Speaker 1: What question would you most like answered? If I could
Speaker 1: wave a magic wand and answer anything, I would obviously
Speaker 1: choose the question whose answer would save the most lives.
Speaker 1: You know, I'd go for something really meaty and high priority.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the biggest scientific obstacle right now
Speaker 1: is to better energy storage, or curing cancer, or developing
Speaker 1: technological approaches to reversing greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere,
Speaker 1: but I would enlist a lot of experts to try
Speaker 1: to determine what single answer could help the most people.
Speaker 1: Now for something more fun. I know this is random
Speaker 1: as hell, but here's what leapt to mind from my
Speaker 1: own career. There's this guy, Sandy Burger, who was Bill
Speaker 1: Clinton's National security advisor, who went into the National Archives
Speaker 1: while he was Clinton's liaison to the nine eleven Commission.
Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding. Many stuffed a bunch of sensitive
Speaker 1: documents down his pants and socks and hid some and
Speaker 1: destroyed others. And because of the record keeping practices there.
Speaker 1: We actually never conclusively found out what might have gone missing.
Speaker 1: And this guy was a constant guest on cable news
Speaker 1: up until his death a few years back, and to
Speaker 1: the best of my knowledge, no one ever got a
Speaker 1: satisfactory answer out of him. No one knew what he
Speaker 1: stuffed down his knickers. Oh, I mean, I think there
Speaker 1: was some limited accounting, and he did plead guilty to
Speaker 1: that charge, but to my knowledge, there's never been a
Speaker 1: full accounting that we can really trust of what he
Speaker 1: was up to or why. And I even had him
Speaker 1: on my cable news show once and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask him. I told my colleagues this,
Speaker 1: and my producer, who was a veteran journalist I really respect,
Speaker 1: and at the time, bear in mind, I was a
Speaker 1: very young anchor just starting out, said you absolutely cannot.
Speaker 1: This is not in the news that was years ago.
Speaker 1: This would be an ambush, it would be very rude.
Speaker 1: There will be another occasion for that. And I didn't
Speaker 1: and then he was completely dead. Oh no, oh god,
Speaker 1: And we never found out what he destroyed her for
Speaker 1: whom so after curing cancer or climate change, what the
Speaker 1: hell Sandy Burger was up to? Wow, I go, I
Speaker 1: really know, I'm going to be thinking about that for days. Okay,
Speaker 1: So what person, place, or experience most altered your life.
Speaker 1: I write about this in my book Catch and Kill.
Speaker 1: I had pitched a story when I was a TV
Speaker 1: reporter about the Hollywood casting couch, and I was in
Speaker 1: a meeting with network executives, some of whom were ultimately
Speaker 1: involved in trying to shut down this reporting. Ironically, but
Speaker 1: at the time, one of them said, in an off
Speaker 1: hand way, didn't Rose McGowan make an allegation of this
Speaker 1: kind recently? And you know she had spoken without naming
Speaker 1: her alleged assailant. But that kicked off my digging into
Speaker 1: this and figuring out that it was Harvey Weinstein and
Speaker 1: getting a whole lot of people to share their stories
Speaker 1: about them very brave people, and I was very grateful
Speaker 1: that they did a very very difficult thing, and that
Speaker 1: ended up being significant in I think both their lives
Speaker 1: and my own. It's interesting that it would come out
Speaker 1: of an apparent lack of support from a network and
Speaker 1: not wanting to explore a story, but you didn't stop.
Speaker 1: It forced you to continue looking into that story and
Speaker 1: then take it elsewhere, which is where we all then
Speaker 1: got to hear about it. And I've talked a bit
Speaker 1: and written in that book a bit about how that
Speaker 1: feels at the time, and I think I myself have
Speaker 1: learned a lesson from that experience. It doesn't, or at
Speaker 1: least didn't, in my case, feel like a triumphal moment
Speaker 1: of you know, yes, it's a setback, but I'm going
Speaker 1: to do the right thing. What it feels like at
Speaker 1: the time is incredibly shitty and scary, and you don't
Speaker 1: know whether the truth is ever going to emerge, and
Speaker 1: you don't know the degree of immolation of your career
Speaker 1: and whether it will be worth it. But I think
Speaker 1: you do, invariably in those situations have a little voice saying,
Speaker 1: you know, well, here's what the right thing is, regardless
Speaker 1: of what the strategic or savvy thing is. And I
Speaker 1: think it's good to listen to that. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I mean it literally created a scaffold to which so
Speaker 1: many women could tether themselves to, could feel strong. You
Speaker 1: literally created a framework. I don't know. I've been in
Speaker 1: this business for a really long time. I worked with Harvey,
Speaker 1: I've watched the goings on, and you never ever ever
Speaker 1: felt that you would ever be anything than a voice
Speaker 1: screaming into a black hole to say anything about any
Speaker 1: of it. And it just changed. It changed in an
Speaker 1: incidant with Rosa's testimony and then with all of the
Speaker 1: women that came forward so bravely. I was going to say, really,
Speaker 1: you know that that's on them. It was an honor
Speaker 1: to be able to do some reporting, to be one
Speaker 1: of the whole community of reporters who did important work
Speaker 1: on those stories. But really, I think it comes down
Speaker 1: to the bravery of those sources. Yeah, they did a
Speaker 1: tough thing, and I think they changed a lot as
Speaker 1: a result. Yeah, so the pendulum is swinging from the
Speaker 1: deep to the more delicious. What would be your last male?
Speaker 1: A lobster? Apparently they used to be larger many until
Speaker 1: over fishing poor lobsters scientifically interesting trade. I believe they
Speaker 1: just continue to get larger and larger until finally the
Speaker 1: size of the shell can't keep pace with the size
Speaker 1: of the body, and they outgrow their shell and they die.
Speaker 1: You know that the shedding can't keep up. Well, we
Speaker 1: got into lobster science very fast here, But the point being,
Speaker 1: I have an annoying bougie answer to this point, you'd
Speaker 1: like to eat a big lobster. I like lobsters. They walk,
Speaker 1: They'll walk in an enormous distance in their life. They're
Speaker 1: the greatest marine hikers. I'm not sure I could eat one.
Speaker 1: They're beautiful creatures, and I think you have the moral
Speaker 1: high ground here. U know, I am not a vegetarian,
Speaker 1: and I am self aware enough to know that if
Speaker 1: I were a better person, I would be for a
Speaker 1: variety of reasons, the carbon footprint and environmental impact of
Speaker 1: the livestock industry, the treatment of various types of animals
Speaker 1: that are food staples. I think it can be problematic
Speaker 1: and also delicious. I mean, I think that's but by
Speaker 1: the way that that might be on my grave step.
Speaker 1: Problematic but delicious, yes, please maybe all be. I think
Speaker 1: that there may come a time in life where I
Speaker 1: have the ethical fortitude to go vegetarian. But in the meantime,
Speaker 1: I do think it's appropriate to have a degree of
Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance there to say, Okay, the ideal outcome morally
Speaker 1: is to never harm a living creature in any way,
Speaker 1: But there are concessions that get me into practicality, and
Speaker 1: you just have to pick carefully where to make them.
Speaker 1: I think having consciousness about stuff we can be failing miserably,
Speaker 1: And like I said earlier, I think having awareness of
Speaker 1: the faulted nature of being a human being is sometimes
Speaker 1: the best that you can do. I mean, maybe don't
Speaker 1: eat lobster every day, but I don't think you were,
Speaker 1: because we're talking about your last meal. So because your
Speaker 1: last meal, I think you're allowed a lobster. To be clear,
Speaker 1: I don't eat lobster every day. I contemplated something that
Speaker 1: was more every day, like mashed up cottage cheese and
Speaker 1: sardines is a staple of mine. I would say, eat
Speaker 1: that several times? Is that? How did you ever come across?
Speaker 1: Was that? Just like opening your fridge and there just
Speaker 1: being a jar of capers and a couple of canisters
Speaker 1: of film and just go and some sardines and not
Speaker 1: not even I grew up eating sardines and cottage cheese
Speaker 1: and thought it was perfectly normal, until you know, I
Speaker 1: would break out the sardines and cottage cheese like out
Speaker 1: of my lunch box in grade school and people would
Speaker 1: just be horrified. Do you put them on saltines? Would
Speaker 1: you just eat it with the phone? Absolutely? Not just
Speaker 1: with the spoon like a delicious fish dairy porridge. I'm
Speaker 1: going to have to make it now. Now that each
Speaker 1: said it, give it a whirl. It goes great with
Speaker 1: with to me os and avocado. I mean, it does
Speaker 1: sound terrible, but it also doesn't sound un terrible. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna have to I'm gonna have to make it. Cottage
Speaker 1: cheese is weird for me. The whole curd thing of
Speaker 1: it is odd and kind of bobbily, which has bad
Speaker 1: mouth feel. Cottage cheese. See, I love that kind of
Speaker 1: mouth feel. Well, we're getting quite quite risque here. Many
Speaker 1: I like, uh not to put too fine a point
Speaker 1: on it, but slimy foods so so perhaps if I'm
Speaker 1: either too ethical to eat a lobster by the time
Speaker 1: I shovel off this mortal coil, or don't have the
Speaker 1: resources for a giant lobster, I would go with the
Speaker 1: simple pleasures of cottage cheese and Sartain's. You're very interesting person. God,
Speaker 1: this is why you're a Rhodes scholar. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm understanding a whole lot more about why I have
Speaker 1: not achieved what you have is because actually it comes
Speaker 1: down to liking the bobbily nature of cottage chee and
Speaker 1: mouth feel, and that for me now is on a
Speaker 1: par with studying a modeling college in Oxford and working
Speaker 1: with the Inner SA And you might win a Grammy.
Speaker 1: What a what a trip to be nominated for I
Speaker 1: just honestly, my eyes did roll a bit when I
Speaker 1: saw that. I was like, and he's nominated for a Grammy. Great, Well,
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for it because I am a lover
Speaker 1: of audio books. Yeah, me too. A good audio book
Speaker 1: is such a beautiful thing. The audio book that I
Speaker 1: was nominated for, it was really a labor of love
Speaker 1: by a wonderful team of women producers and engineers that
Speaker 1: put a whole lot of long hours into it, and
Speaker 1: we worked very hard on getting the music right and
Speaker 1: getting the performance right. And it's very important to me
Speaker 1: as a listener when I have those things in place
Speaker 1: to connect with a story. I love a writer reading
Speaker 1: their own work, like I love Donna Tarts reading a
Speaker 1: secret history. Oh I haven't listened to that. She's got
Speaker 1: an odd voice that is a delight though she's not
Speaker 1: a trained actor. And then other times a wonderful actor
Speaker 1: can be the best approach. I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: done audio books, but you should, you have a wonderful voice.
Speaker 1: I've done bits and pieces. I really like the discipline
Speaker 1: of it. And also growing up in England, you know,
Speaker 1: everything was on the radio. There were just so many
Speaker 1: radio plays and that was my first experience of theater
Speaker 1: really was the radio. Anything m Colin Firth reads as
Speaker 1: an audio recording I will listen to, and Judy Dench,
Speaker 1: I mean, those are fabulous choices that you know. Who
Speaker 1: who's great who I encountered recently is John Malkovich does
Speaker 1: a reading of Vonnegut's Breakfasts of Champions, and he does
Speaker 1: it's such a perfect union of performer and text because
Speaker 1: Vonnegart is a quirky oddball and Malkovich reads it in
Speaker 1: such a frankly insane way. And he does a unique thing,
Speaker 1: which is that Varnegart illustrated obviously some of his books,
Speaker 1: and Breakfast of Champions in particular has a bunch of
Speaker 1: little illustrations in the margins, and Malkovich kind of stops
Speaker 1: and breaks narrator character and as himself describes the illustrations
Speaker 1: as there is, which is a totally normal approach and
Speaker 1: rate that's brilliant that is brilliant. Perhaps perhaps a good
Speaker 1: note to to wind down on. Have you read anything
Speaker 1: good recently? Do you have any audiobook recommendations? Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: you know what, Actually, I haven't been listening to books.
Speaker 1: I've been reading them because there's been this time to
Speaker 1: actually read. And it's it's funny. That's a pleasure of
Speaker 1: its own kind. The physical books. I love those two,
Speaker 1: it really is. I've been reading. I've been reading quite
Speaker 1: a lot of Anita Bruckner. I've been going back to
Speaker 1: my kind of the British, the British ladies who I
Speaker 1: never would have read when I was I was growing up,
Speaker 1: and I always um, I read Middle March again for
Speaker 1: like the tense time. Oh how area diut of you
Speaker 1: ever read gripping? It's gripping, like it's gripping gossip where
Speaker 1: like nobody's getting naked. But it's super awful, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's so shocking. All right, I'm that sounds up
Speaker 1: my alley and it's an embarrassing gap in my classic
Speaker 1: literature knowledge. So I am. I am going to read
Speaker 1: Middle March for you. I love that you're like recommend
Speaker 1: recommending things. I mean, Cottage cheese and sardines and audiobooks.
Speaker 1: I mean you are you notice that you're like you're
Speaker 1: my kind of Polly math mate. Some of my recommendations
Speaker 1: are more dubious than others. Is such a pleasure talking
Speaker 1: to your clime and tell you thank you. Such a pleasure, Minnie,
Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Thank you very much. If
Speaker 1: you haven't already had your headphones plugged in too much today,
Speaker 1: I want you to listen to Roland's audiobook version of
Speaker 1: Catch and Kill. The story is incredibly powerful and it's important. Plus,
Speaker 1: as you heard, it was nominated for a Grammy because
Speaker 1: I mean, of course it was many questions. Is hosted
Speaker 1: and written by Me, Mini Driver, supervising producer Aaron Kaufman,
Speaker 1: Producer Morgan Lavoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry
Speaker 1: Baby by Minni Driver, Additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Executive
Speaker 1: produced by Me and man Gesh Hetty Cador. Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day, Lisa Gastella
Speaker 1: and Annique Oppenheim at w kPr, de La Pescadore, Kate
Speaker 1: Driver and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support.
Speaker 1: Henry driver