1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Mini, This is such a good idea. I love the 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: questions and they do draw out a frightening the confessional 3 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: quality because their their tough ones to grab with. They 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: adapted prost questions or it's just the same concept. It 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: was the concept of the prosting questionnaire, but I needed 6 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: to modify them because there were other things that I 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: wanted to ask, and good God, there's so much that 8 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: I want to ask you and talk about. I feel 9 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: that really specific questions can elicit answers to questions other 10 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: than the ones asked. If you see that, absolutely, and 11 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: you've calibrated these well, because there are maddening in various ways, 12 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,800 Speaker 1: and ones that I hadn't really contemplated in all cases. 13 00:00:40,120 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: But I'll give it a world. Hello, I'm Mini Driver, 14 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: and welcome to many questions. I've always loved priest questionnaire. 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: It was originally an eighteenth century parlor game meant to 16 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: reveal an individual's true nature. But with so many questions, 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: there wasn't really an opportunity to expand on anything. So 18 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: I took the format of proofs questionnaire and adapted what 19 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: I think are seven of the most important questions you 20 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: could ever ask someone. They are when and where were 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: you happiest. What is the quality you like least about yourself? 22 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? What 23 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: question would you most like answered, What person, place, or 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 1: experience has shaped you the most? What would be your 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: last meal? And can you tell me something in your 26 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: life that has grown out of a personal disaster. The 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 1: more people we ask, the more we begin to see 28 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: what makes us similar and what makes us individual. I've 29 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 1: gathered a group of really remarkable people who am honored 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: and humbled to have had a chance to engage with, 31 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: and today I'm talking to Ronan Farah. Ronan is an 32 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: extraordinary polymath. He is a Rhodes scholar. He has worked 33 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: for the Obama administration, and he's been a voice actor 34 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: in Miasaki films. As a journalist, he conducted a revelatory 35 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: investigation into sexual assault against women working in film, and 36 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: in doing so he acted as an empowering ally to 37 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: those women. The work on this investigation also won him 38 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: a Politzer Prize. He has been a speechwriter and advisor, 39 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: has a j d from Yale, law, a PhD from Oxford, 40 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: and as I learned my conversation with him today, He 41 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: is also a songwriter. His resume speaks to his rigorous 42 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: intellect and curiosity, and in action he illuminates stories and 43 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 1: ideas that need to be heard, whether he's advocating for 44 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 1: the protection of refugees, is a political advisor, or unmasking 45 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,799 Speaker 1: insurgents of the US capital. As an investigative reporter, Ronan 46 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: tirelessly pursues truth, even if and oftentimes when it means 47 00:02:50,919 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 1: speaking that truth to power. I go backwards and forwards 48 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: on the first question of where and when were you happiest, 49 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,640 Speaker 1: because we're so encouraged to be happy all the time, 50 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,519 Speaker 1: rather than the place that we're headed. I don't think 51 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: that's fair. Well, not to be terribly pedantic right out 52 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: of the gate, but you know, what is happiness is 53 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: what you come do very quickly in answering this question, 54 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: or I did anyway, And I also I found it 55 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: surprisingly hard to answer by any metric. You know that 56 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:28,080 Speaker 1: there are a lot of professional moments of fulfillment that 57 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: came to mind as obvious answers. Getting a tape of 58 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,120 Speaker 1: Harvey Weinstein trying to entrap a woman after months and 59 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: months of trying to get that those are obviously moments 60 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 1: of fulfillment of a kind, But then I think was 61 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: I happy then? Because those high points were also marked 62 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 1: by a lot of stress and can also be frankly 63 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 1: kind of scary. I mean, I think both on a 64 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: level that any writer would relate to, where you're in 65 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: the zone crafting a scene, but also you're on a 66 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: terrifying deadline and it's stressful and you're afraid you're going 67 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: to fail, and is a lot writing on it, I think, 68 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: particularly when it's investigative reporting and in ways that are 69 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: unique to my kind of work, which is very combative 70 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: in some ways, and you know, there are sometimes private 71 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: investigators hired to follow me around and smear me in 72 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: various ways. So those moments of fulfillment are often entwined 73 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: with a lot of anxiety. And I don't know if 74 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: happiness quite captures what those moments are, and I don't 75 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: think they're mutually exclusive. No, I agree, it is part 76 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: of the satisfaction of doing an incredibly hard job that 77 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: is dangerous and frightening at times but also incredibly necessary, 78 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: and then that paying off. I think there are ways 79 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: in which that's a healthy happiness. You know, if you 80 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: are doing something whatever your profession is that you feel 81 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: is contributing in a positive way to other people's lives. 82 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: That's a great thing to nurture in yourself. On the 83 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: other hand, that can take a lot of unhealthy forms. 84 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: You know, I know and really respect a lot of 85 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: great war reporters who famously do get a high off 86 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: of being in conflict zones. And you know, during time 87 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: I've spent in some those types of places, you encounter 88 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: a lot of those people who are in it, maybe 89 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: for all the right reasons, but also I think you know, 90 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 1: if they were to search themselves on a personal level, 91 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: it's probably not the healthiest thing that they need to 92 00:05:10,720 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: be in those high octane places all the time. So 93 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: is that happiness or is that kind of getting a 94 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: certain kind of high again, regardless of how noble the intentions, 95 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,160 Speaker 1: And we all benefit so richly from people who take 96 00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 1: those risks. I just know plenty of people who thrive 97 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: in those settings and do us all a public service. 98 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: But also I think it comes from a place of 99 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: brokenness in part. You know, I don't know that that's 100 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: anything to be discouraged, because we do all benefits so much. 101 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: You know, the world is a better place for that. 102 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 1: But can you box that into a simple term like happiness. 103 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 1: I don't know. I know, I was going to say, 104 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: maybe happiness expands or retracts according to the person. The 105 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: intense joy that I felt when I had my son, 106 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 1: it's different from the intense joy that I felt when 107 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: I traveled to Cambodia with Oxfam years ago and there 108 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: was these blacklisted workers. They'd all been fired from the 109 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: sweatshops for, you know, not wanting to work for a 110 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: dollar a day and be able to take bath and breaks. 111 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: And they started this factory and I arrived there on 112 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: my birthday and they made this whole party for me, 113 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 1: and I spoke a bit of French, but they were 114 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: all speaking camar I mean, it was. It was one 115 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 1: of the most intensely happy experiences of my life. But 116 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: it was completely different to having my son. And was 117 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: that happy because you felt you were doing something that mattered, 118 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: that was in the public interest. Yeah, it was. All 119 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,679 Speaker 1: of these things were wrapped up in one the idea 120 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: that these women had started their own factory. It was 121 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: my birthday that I thought had been the last by 122 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: traveling to the other side of the world, and the 123 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: fact that they'd used what little resources they had to 124 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: make me a cake and decorate the factory, and we 125 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: were just women, not speaking the same language, but celebrating. 126 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: So it was a convergence of a lot of different 127 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: kinds of happiness. Is that's exactly and maybe that's it 128 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: is It is pluralistic happiness. I also got to thinking, 129 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 1: in reflecting on this question now harderist answer, I think 130 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:02,280 Speaker 1: I allowed a lot of very happy moments to be 131 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:07,919 Speaker 1: shadowed by anxiety or sadness in a way that I 132 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: wish weren't the case. You know, simple things like getting 133 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 1: recognized by fellow journalists, are finally getting that graduate degree 134 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: after seven years of work. That's gratifying but also feels 135 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: more like relief than happiness in the moment, and I 136 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: think I allow those moments to immediately turn to thoughts 137 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: of not even on a totally conscious level, it's just 138 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: sort of hovering there, What am I going to do next? 139 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 1: How can I be this useful again? Can I match this? 140 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: You know? All these So this is this is really 141 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,880 Speaker 1: interesting because do you think I'm trying to think of 142 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: a different word than overachiever, Because there's I don't think 143 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: there's any such thing. There is just doing the things 144 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 1: which you feel compelled to do. But you have done 145 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: an enormous amount of things that are big and extraordinary, 146 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,560 Speaker 1: and you've done them very young. Do you think that 147 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: because you do so many different things that are big, 148 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: that their bullets are and their New York bari and 149 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: their modeling college and their road scholarly and their advocacy 150 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: and there's global in the title, do you think that 151 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: the bar is set incredibly high for what might be 152 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: perceived as happiness for you because of how you'm roll? Yes, 153 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: And you know, there are all these studies over the 154 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: years of people who are happiest and least happy, And 155 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: of course it doesn't track to a particular worldview of 156 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: success that or commendations that that you just kind of 157 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: touched on. You know, I think they are simpler and 158 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: maybe more essential things to be happy about, and I 159 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: don't know that I'm always the best of being in 160 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: touch with them, But ultimately that is what I came 161 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: down to and deciding how to answer this question, I 162 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: ultimately came to thinking about really simple pleasures and times 163 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: and places. You know, that memory came to mind of 164 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: being a teenager lying in bed in my childhood home, 165 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:51,200 Speaker 1: just crushing a box of Mint Milano cookies and playing 166 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: this game. I remember vividly. It was a visual novel 167 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: on the Nintendo DS called Phoenix Right Ace Attorney, which 168 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: is a bonkers Japanese courtroom draw. There will be some 169 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: tiny segment of your audience that gets that reference, and 170 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: I I was really content then, I think in a 171 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: very kind of quiet, low key way, and is this 172 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: too off color? Also in my teens, you know, making 173 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: out in a bathroom with a crush during a house party. 174 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: That was like some things like that, And I think 175 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: I could probably do a better job in my adult 176 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: life of embracing those small and simple moments. Now, you 177 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: know what. I love that your paradigm runs from busting 178 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,840 Speaker 1: predators to making it in a buthroom when you're a teenager, 179 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 1: to playing Nintendo DS. Like, I love that paradigm, and 180 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 1: it's why you're such an interesting person because that's where 181 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: you live. You can't do all three of those things 182 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: at once, I've found, but there is time enough in 183 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: life to multitats. Yeah, that was That's a very spec 184 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: That would be a very specific kind of multit It 185 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: would require a lot of just manual dexterity. It would 186 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: need another, It would need at least two more of Yes, Yes, 187 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 1: this is a hard question. What is the quality you 188 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 1: like least about yourself? I found this much easier to 189 00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: answer because there are so many rich and wonderfully terrible 190 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:27,199 Speaker 1: things about me to choose from. Lack of punctuality is 191 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: up there. Not in important professional things, but in most 192 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: other things. I am always late, and I think that 193 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: flows from a broader issue. I see this trait in 194 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: a lot of super ambitious people. You kind of think 195 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: you can accomplish it all in any amount of time. 196 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: So it's like meeting in ten minutes, Well, let me 197 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: start writing the Great American novel in those ten minutes. 198 00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: There's a fair amount of perfectionism run amuck. I think 199 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: in me that that leads to a lot of procrastination. 200 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: You know, every book that I've done has been a 201 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: year late. This is obviously nothing new if you talk 202 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: to any writer. But I've let it get to the 203 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: point of several times in life where it really does 204 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: threaten to sort of cause real problems. And I think 205 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: that is an offshoot of that same worldview of like 206 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: I can do anything in any amount of time. So 207 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave it till later. And also it's got 208 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: to be so good, so I'm afraid to start. I 209 00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: think the big one, though many as I really thought 210 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: deeply sort of what's most consequential is an inability to 211 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: be in the moment. I do a lot of songwriting, 212 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: and it really shows up there. Especially I'm used to 213 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: brute forcing things by overthinking them, and I think that 214 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: that actually can work well in a writing and a 215 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,560 Speaker 1: particularly a lyrical context. You know, I like narrative and 216 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,079 Speaker 1: character driven lyrics and and that can involve a cerebral approach. 217 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: But as a performer in particular, it can be a handicap, 218 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: I think, just even not knowing that much except from Afar, 219 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 1: you know, just growing up around actors, I see this. 220 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: You need to be spontaneous and trust yourself to fail 221 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: and be rough around edges, and that doesn't come naturally 222 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: to me. It's why I really respect actors, you know, 223 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 1: the the Udha Hogan thing of being present and being 224 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: just in touch with your emotions in a really raw 225 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: an unfiltered way. You know, I don't know about acting specifically. 226 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 1: I've I've done a little light voice acting, anime voice 227 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: acting of all, you know, and we've both worked with Miyazaki. 228 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,679 Speaker 1: What a thrill right beyond I couldn't believe that you 229 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: work with his son and with him, and I couldn't 230 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: believe that you've done that at all, Like it was 231 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: shocking and amazing to discover that. I mean, it's, you know, 232 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: a grand statement to say worked with them. I did 233 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: tiny parts in the American dubs, but I would lick 234 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: stamps for Studio Jibli that their work is so incredible. No, no, 235 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 1: I mean I did the American dubs to on Princess Mononoki, 236 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,760 Speaker 1: but when he came to your part, I love that. 237 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 1: But I mean, I'm an actor. Like the fact that you, 238 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: how dare you? How dare you have gone to Oxford 239 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 1: and also done a Miyazaki movie and also want upon 240 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: it set those kinds of little exposures to that sort 241 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: of performing aside, I would probably have trouble ever delivering 242 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: a truly great piece of acting, because I do think 243 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: I tend to be too cerebral and in my head 244 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: too much of the time. And you know, I could 245 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: perhaps do things that are technically great, but that next 246 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 1: level of transcending technique is a real reach for me 247 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: and I frankly don't know. Maybe you have advice on 248 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: this how to get past that? Well, I would say 249 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: as any therapist would advise you. Awareness is the only 250 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: place to begin as an actor. Awareness of like what 251 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: it is that you're doing wrong. God, I remember I 252 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: was invited by this amazing artistic director CaAl Richard Air, 253 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,480 Speaker 1: who was the artistic director of the National Theater in London, 254 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: and I was invited to this cabal of actors to 255 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: to work on Shakespeare. And you know, I duly did 256 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: my my balcony scene and at the end of it 257 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,680 Speaker 1: he was like, great, this is so great because it's 258 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: so important to see how not to do this scene. 259 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: It's so important to see how terrible it can be 260 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: when you know all the rules of iambic pentameter ignored. 261 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,679 Speaker 1: And I was. I was so embarrassed and so crushed. 262 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: It's devastating. Here's the deal. He's absolutely right, and it 263 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: forced me to study Shakespeare with ten times more attention 264 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: than I had before. So I think awareness of the 265 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: place to begin, and that requires humility, and it requires acknowledgement, 266 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: and then you just begin. And I think, then desire, 267 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:27,880 Speaker 1: if you really, if there was something that you really 268 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: wanted to do, you would figure it out. You know. 269 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,240 Speaker 1: I obviously this is most relevant in my life, not 270 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: because I'm you know, trying to crack the nutb could 271 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: I ever theoretically be a great actor, but but because 272 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: in so many of the things I do, I do 273 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,360 Speaker 1: think you need to possess both of those abilities, being 274 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: able to rigorously overthink everything and be precise and technical, 275 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: and then also knowing when to let go and just 276 00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 1: be emotional and honest and in the moment. I mean, 277 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: I think you need that in any profession where you 278 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: have to communicate, whether it's to an audience as I 279 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 1: sometimes have to, or in reporting when you're trying to 280 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: connect with someone and unearth what's going on in a situation. 281 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: And so I'll take those thoughts to heart. You know, 282 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: I think I sometimes want it too much. You know 283 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: that the quality you described of do you do want 284 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 1: it enough? I think sometimes for me that leads to 285 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: overthinking and not being able to just clear your mind. Well, 286 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: in that case, you know, I prescribe, I don't know, 287 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: yoga and a few more milkshakes, right I relaxed? There 288 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: you go? That would be three Also a note, I 289 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: will take perfect This is my this is my therapy. 290 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: You're right, you just need therapy. You don't need therapy 291 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: per se. I'm fascinated to hear how you answer this. 292 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: What question would you most like answered? If I could 293 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: wave a magic wand and answer anything, I would obviously 294 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: choose the question whose answer would save the most lives. 295 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:05,239 Speaker 1: You know, I'd go for something really meaty and high priority. 296 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what the biggest scientific obstacle right now 297 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: is to better energy storage, or curing cancer, or developing 298 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: technological approaches to reversing greenhouse gas emissions in the atmosphere, 299 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: but I would enlist a lot of experts to try 300 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: to determine what single answer could help the most people. 301 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 1: Now for something more fun. I know this is random 302 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: as hell, but here's what leapt to mind from my 303 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: own career. There's this guy, Sandy Burger, who was Bill 304 00:16:34,160 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: Clinton's National security advisor, who went into the National Archives 305 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 1: while he was Clinton's liaison to the nine eleven Commission. 306 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: And I'm not kidding. Many stuffed a bunch of sensitive 307 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 1: documents down his pants and socks and hid some and 308 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: destroyed others. And because of the record keeping practices there. 309 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: We actually never conclusively found out what might have gone missing. 310 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: And this guy was a constant guest on cable news 311 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: up until his death a few years back, and to 312 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: the best of my knowledge, no one ever got a 313 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: satisfactory answer out of him. No one knew what he 314 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: stuffed down his knickers. Oh, I mean, I think there 315 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: was some limited accounting, and he did plead guilty to 316 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 1: that charge, but to my knowledge, there's never been a 317 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: full accounting that we can really trust of what he 318 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 1: was up to or why. And I even had him 319 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,479 Speaker 1: on my cable news show once and I was like, 320 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to ask him. I told my colleagues this, 321 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 1: and my producer, who was a veteran journalist I really respect, 322 00:17:34,000 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 1: and at the time, bear in mind, I was a 323 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: very young anchor just starting out, said you absolutely cannot. 324 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 1: This is not in the news that was years ago. 325 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: This would be an ambush, it would be very rude. 326 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: There will be another occasion for that. And I didn't 327 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: and then he was completely dead. Oh no, oh god, 328 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: And we never found out what he destroyed her for 329 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:58,479 Speaker 1: whom so after curing cancer or climate change, what the 330 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: hell Sandy Burger was up to? Wow, I go, I 331 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: really know, I'm going to be thinking about that for days. Okay, 332 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: So what person, place, or experience most altered your life. 333 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: I write about this in my book Catch and Kill. 334 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 1: I had pitched a story when I was a TV 335 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,639 Speaker 1: reporter about the Hollywood casting couch, and I was in 336 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: a meeting with network executives, some of whom were ultimately 337 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: involved in trying to shut down this reporting. Ironically, but 338 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 1: at the time, one of them said, in an off 339 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: hand way, didn't Rose McGowan make an allegation of this 340 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: kind recently? And you know she had spoken without naming 341 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: her alleged assailant. But that kicked off my digging into 342 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: this and figuring out that it was Harvey Weinstein and 343 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: getting a whole lot of people to share their stories 344 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,920 Speaker 1: about them very brave people, and I was very grateful 345 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: that they did a very very difficult thing, and that 346 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: ended up being significant in I think both their lives 347 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 1: and my own. It's interesting that it would come out 348 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,359 Speaker 1: of an apparent lack of support from a network and 349 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: not wanting to explore a story, but you didn't stop. 350 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: It forced you to continue looking into that story and 351 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: then take it elsewhere, which is where we all then 352 00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: got to hear about it. And I've talked a bit 353 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: and written in that book a bit about how that 354 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: feels at the time, and I think I myself have 355 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,719 Speaker 1: learned a lesson from that experience. It doesn't, or at 356 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: least didn't, in my case, feel like a triumphal moment 357 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: of you know, yes, it's a setback, but I'm going 358 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,919 Speaker 1: to do the right thing. What it feels like at 359 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: the time is incredibly shitty and scary, and you don't 360 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: know whether the truth is ever going to emerge, and 361 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: you don't know the degree of immolation of your career 362 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: and whether it will be worth it. But I think 363 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: you do, invariably in those situations have a little voice saying, 364 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: you know, well, here's what the right thing is, regardless 365 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: of what the strategic or savvy thing is. And I 366 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: think it's good to listen to that. Oh my god, 367 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,840 Speaker 1: I mean it literally created a scaffold to which so 368 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,480 Speaker 1: many women could tether themselves to, could feel strong. You 369 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: literally created a framework. I don't know. I've been in 370 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: this business for a really long time. I worked with Harvey, 371 00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 1: I've watched the goings on, and you never ever ever 372 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,959 Speaker 1: felt that you would ever be anything than a voice 373 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: screaming into a black hole to say anything about any 374 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: of it. And it just changed. It changed in an 375 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:37,000 Speaker 1: incidant with Rosa's testimony and then with all of the 376 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: women that came forward so bravely. I was going to say, really, 377 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: you know that that's on them. It was an honor 378 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,720 Speaker 1: to be able to do some reporting, to be one 379 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: of the whole community of reporters who did important work 380 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: on those stories. But really, I think it comes down 381 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 1: to the bravery of those sources. Yeah, they did a 382 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: tough thing, and I think they changed a lot as 383 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: a result. Yeah, so the pendulum is swinging from the 384 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: deep to the more delicious. What would be your last male? 385 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: A lobster? Apparently they used to be larger many until 386 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: over fishing poor lobsters scientifically interesting trade. I believe they 387 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: just continue to get larger and larger until finally the 388 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: size of the shell can't keep pace with the size 389 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: of the body, and they outgrow their shell and they die. 390 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: You know that the shedding can't keep up. Well, we 391 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: got into lobster science very fast here, But the point being, 392 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 1: I have an annoying bougie answer to this point, you'd 393 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: like to eat a big lobster. I like lobsters. They walk, 394 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: They'll walk in an enormous distance in their life. They're 395 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: the greatest marine hikers. I'm not sure I could eat one. 396 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: They're beautiful creatures, and I think you have the moral 397 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,719 Speaker 1: high ground here. U know, I am not a vegetarian, 398 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,479 Speaker 1: and I am self aware enough to know that if 399 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: I were a better person, I would be for a 400 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: variety of reasons, the carbon footprint and environmental impact of 401 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,960 Speaker 1: the livestock industry, the treatment of various types of animals 402 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: that are food staples. I think it can be problematic 403 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: and also delicious. I mean, I think that's but by 404 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: the way that that might be on my grave step. 405 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,639 Speaker 1: Problematic but delicious, yes, please maybe all be. I think 406 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: that there may come a time in life where I 407 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:34,160 Speaker 1: have the ethical fortitude to go vegetarian. But in the meantime, 408 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: I do think it's appropriate to have a degree of 409 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance there to say, Okay, the ideal outcome morally 410 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: is to never harm a living creature in any way, 411 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 1: But there are concessions that get me into practicality, and 412 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: you just have to pick carefully where to make them. 413 00:22:48,359 --> 00:22:52,440 Speaker 1: I think having consciousness about stuff we can be failing miserably, 414 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: And like I said earlier, I think having awareness of 415 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,400 Speaker 1: the faulted nature of being a human being is sometimes 416 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: the best that you can do. I mean, maybe don't 417 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,199 Speaker 1: eat lobster every day, but I don't think you were, 418 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: because we're talking about your last meal. So because your 419 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: last meal, I think you're allowed a lobster. To be clear, 420 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,879 Speaker 1: I don't eat lobster every day. I contemplated something that 421 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: was more every day, like mashed up cottage cheese and 422 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: sardines is a staple of mine. I would say, eat 423 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: that several times? Is that? How did you ever come across? 424 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: Was that? Just like opening your fridge and there just 425 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: being a jar of capers and a couple of canisters 426 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: of film and just go and some sardines and not 427 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: not even I grew up eating sardines and cottage cheese 428 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: and thought it was perfectly normal, until you know, I 429 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: would break out the sardines and cottage cheese like out 430 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: of my lunch box in grade school and people would 431 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: just be horrified. Do you put them on saltines? Would 432 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: you just eat it with the phone? Absolutely? Not just 433 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: with the spoon like a delicious fish dairy porridge. I'm 434 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: going to have to make it now. Now that each 435 00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: said it, give it a whirl. It goes great with 436 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 1: with to me os and avocado. I mean, it does 437 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: sound terrible, but it also doesn't sound un terrible. I'm 438 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: gonna have to I'm gonna have to make it. Cottage 439 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: cheese is weird for me. The whole curd thing of 440 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: it is odd and kind of bobbily, which has bad 441 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: mouth feel. Cottage cheese. See, I love that kind of 442 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: mouth feel. Well, we're getting quite quite risque here. Many 443 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: I like, uh not to put too fine a point 444 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:27,920 Speaker 1: on it, but slimy foods so so perhaps if I'm 445 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: either too ethical to eat a lobster by the time 446 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: I shovel off this mortal coil, or don't have the 447 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: resources for a giant lobster, I would go with the 448 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: simple pleasures of cottage cheese and Sartain's. You're very interesting person. God, 449 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: this is why you're a Rhodes scholar. I feel like 450 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 1: I'm understanding a whole lot more about why I have 451 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: not achieved what you have is because actually it comes 452 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: down to liking the bobbily nature of cottage chee and 453 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: mouth feel, and that for me now is on a 454 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 1: par with studying a modeling college in Oxford and working 455 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: with the Inner SA And you might win a Grammy. 456 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: What a what a trip to be nominated for I 457 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: just honestly, my eyes did roll a bit when I 458 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 1: saw that. I was like, and he's nominated for a Grammy. Great, Well, 459 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: I'm so grateful for it because I am a lover 460 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: of audio books. Yeah, me too. A good audio book 461 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: is such a beautiful thing. The audio book that I 462 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: was nominated for, it was really a labor of love 463 00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: by a wonderful team of women producers and engineers that 464 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 1: put a whole lot of long hours into it, and 465 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: we worked very hard on getting the music right and 466 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,679 Speaker 1: getting the performance right. And it's very important to me 467 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,159 Speaker 1: as a listener when I have those things in place 468 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: to connect with a story. I love a writer reading 469 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: their own work, like I love Donna Tarts reading a 470 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,439 Speaker 1: secret history. Oh I haven't listened to that. She's got 471 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: an odd voice that is a delight though she's not 472 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: a trained actor. And then other times a wonderful actor 473 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 1: can be the best approach. I don't know if you've 474 00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: done audio books, but you should, you have a wonderful voice. 475 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,680 Speaker 1: I've done bits and pieces. I really like the discipline 476 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: of it. And also growing up in England, you know, 477 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,400 Speaker 1: everything was on the radio. There were just so many 478 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: radio plays and that was my first experience of theater 479 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: really was the radio. Anything m Colin Firth reads as 480 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: an audio recording I will listen to, and Judy Dench, 481 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: I mean, those are fabulous choices that you know. Who 482 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: who's great who I encountered recently is John Malkovich does 483 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: a reading of Vonnegut's Breakfasts of Champions, and he does 484 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: it's such a perfect union of performer and text because 485 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,959 Speaker 1: Vonnegart is a quirky oddball and Malkovich reads it in 486 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: such a frankly insane way. And he does a unique thing, 487 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: which is that Varnegart illustrated obviously some of his books, 488 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: and Breakfast of Champions in particular has a bunch of 489 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,120 Speaker 1: little illustrations in the margins, and Malkovich kind of stops 490 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: and breaks narrator character and as himself describes the illustrations 491 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: as there is, which is a totally normal approach and 492 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: rate that's brilliant that is brilliant. Perhaps perhaps a good 493 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: note to to wind down on. Have you read anything 494 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: good recently? Do you have any audiobook recommendations? Oh my gosh, 495 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,480 Speaker 1: you know what, Actually, I haven't been listening to books. 496 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: I've been reading them because there's been this time to 497 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: actually read. And it's it's funny. That's a pleasure of 498 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: its own kind. The physical books. I love those two, 499 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: it really is. I've been reading. I've been reading quite 500 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: a lot of Anita Bruckner. I've been going back to 501 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: my kind of the British, the British ladies who I 502 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,400 Speaker 1: never would have read when I was I was growing up, 503 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: and I always um, I read Middle March again for 504 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: like the tense time. Oh how area diut of you 505 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: ever read gripping? It's gripping, like it's gripping gossip where 506 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: like nobody's getting naked. But it's super awful, you know, 507 00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,199 Speaker 1: it's it's so shocking. All right, I'm that sounds up 508 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: my alley and it's an embarrassing gap in my classic 509 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: literature knowledge. So I am. I am going to read 510 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: Middle March for you. I love that you're like recommend 511 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: recommending things. I mean, Cottage cheese and sardines and audiobooks. 512 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: I mean you are you notice that you're like you're 513 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: my kind of Polly math mate. Some of my recommendations 514 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: are more dubious than others. Is such a pleasure talking 515 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: to your clime and tell you thank you. Such a pleasure, Minnie, 516 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: thank you for having me. Thank you very much. If 517 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: you haven't already had your headphones plugged in too much today, 518 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: I want you to listen to Roland's audiobook version of 519 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 1: Catch and Kill. The story is incredibly powerful and it's important. Plus, 520 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: as you heard, it was nominated for a Grammy because 521 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: I mean, of course it was many questions. Is hosted 522 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: and written by Me, Mini Driver, supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, 523 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:08,719 Speaker 1: Producer Morgan Lavoy, Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry 524 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: Baby by Minni Driver, Additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Executive 525 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: produced by Me and man Gesh Hetty Cador. Special thanks 526 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: to Jim Nikolay, Will Pearson, Addison No Day, Lisa Gastella 527 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,960 Speaker 1: and Annique Oppenheim at w kPr, de La Pescadore, Kate 528 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: Driver and Jason Weinberg, and for constantly solicited tech support. 529 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: Henry driver