WEBVTT - Senate Rejects Repeal of Obama-Era Methane Rules (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>Democrats are outnumbered in Washington these days, but that doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>mean they can't pull out the occasional victory. It happened

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<v Speaker 1>this week in the Senate where three Republicans joined all

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<v Speaker 1>forty eight Democrats to leave intact and Obama administration rule

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<v Speaker 1>that would curb emissions of methane, a potent greenhouse gas,

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<v Speaker 1>from drilling operations on public lands. The vote marked the

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<v Speaker 1>first failure for the Republican leadership in an effort to

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<v Speaker 1>roll back in Obama regulation under an obscure law known

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<v Speaker 1>as the Congressional Review Act. How important is this regulation

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<v Speaker 1>and will Republican and industry opponents find another way to

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<v Speaker 1>kill it? We will ask our guests. He is Charles Warren,

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<v Speaker 1>a partner at Cramer Levin, Talas and Frankel Chuck. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>as always for joining us. Tell us about this rule,

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<v Speaker 1>what what would it do? Well? What the rule would do?

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<v Speaker 1>I think if people are familiar with seeing oil and

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<v Speaker 1>gas wells, and you see them around here off the

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<v Speaker 1>New Jersey Turnpike, they flare off and you can see

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<v Speaker 1>fire go up in the air, and that's what's called

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<v Speaker 1>the venting of gas and what they vent and also

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<v Speaker 1>leak sometimes is methane gas. And methane gas, while it's

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<v Speaker 1>not present in such large numbers as c O two

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<v Speaker 1>that comes from big power plants all over the country,

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<v Speaker 1>is twenty five times more potent a greenhouse gas than

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<v Speaker 1>c O two. So even though it's in small numbers,

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<v Speaker 1>that can have a big impact. And so what this

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<v Speaker 1>regulation basically does, it's it says that they have to

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<v Speaker 1>control the venting and the leaking of the methane gas

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<v Speaker 1>and they have to report periodically on it and take

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<v Speaker 1>steps to minimize, you know, the in the future venting.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh, I think that the idea behind the regulation

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<v Speaker 1>was that you could also use this methane that you

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<v Speaker 1>captured in and sell it off in ways that would

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<v Speaker 1>be economically valuable, uh, you know to the oil and

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<v Speaker 1>gas producers. And they objected, Yeah, go ahead, sorry, you chuck.

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<v Speaker 1>Getting the Trump administration to repeal the methane emissions rule

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<v Speaker 1>had been a top priority of the oil and gas industries,

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<v Speaker 1>and Republicans had been working for weeks to get the

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<v Speaker 1>forty nine votes they needed. Does this defeat mean something

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<v Speaker 1>for environmentalists? Well, I think it's I think it's important

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<v Speaker 1>for environmentalists because this is this is the only loss

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<v Speaker 1>so far under the Congressional Review Act, and uh and

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's an important regulation. But the fight's not

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<v Speaker 1>over yet because still the administration at E p A

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<v Speaker 1>and at the you know, the National Parks and the

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<v Speaker 1>Interior Department can still try to water down the regulation.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think it's you know, I think it's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>make it harder in the administrative process to do it

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<v Speaker 1>where they thought they had an easy way just to

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<v Speaker 1>knock it out. There's also some lawsuit over over this

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<v Speaker 1>rule out there. Does that have any any legs to

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<v Speaker 1>it or is that an administrative avenue that you were

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<v Speaker 1>referring to. Is that the place to watch for for

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<v Speaker 1>the future of this role. Yeah, that I I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think the lawsuits gonna do much, but I think that

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<v Speaker 1>I think the administrative avenues at at E p A

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<v Speaker 1>and Interior that's really what to watch because I know

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<v Speaker 1>there's going to be a concerted effort by those departments

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<v Speaker 1>to try to uh water down the regulation that you

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<v Speaker 1>know that they failed to knock out completely. So chuck

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<v Speaker 1>the real surprise vote. There were three Republicans who voted

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<v Speaker 1>with the Democrats, but the real surprise last minute was

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<v Speaker 1>Senator John McCain, and he was also the target of

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<v Speaker 1>significant lobbying on the climate issue. UM At the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>he said that he would support an effort by the

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<v Speaker 1>Trump administration to rewrite the Obama Rule. So where does

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<v Speaker 1>that leave him as far as the environment and methane. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think you know, when you look back in history,

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<v Speaker 1>sent Or McCain has actually been someone who's tried to

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<v Speaker 1>do something about climate change. I mean, going back far back.

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<v Speaker 1>He was involved in supporting a cap and trade proposal

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<v Speaker 1>to control power plant emissions that didn't get anywhere. But

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<v Speaker 1>so I think he I think in the back of

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<v Speaker 1>his mind he's still, uh, you would like to do

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<v Speaker 1>things about climate change. And he's probably trying to walk

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<v Speaker 1>a fine line by saying he'd like to cut like

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<v Speaker 1>to see it cut back a little bit. And probably

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<v Speaker 1>that goes to the small producers because they're complaining and

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<v Speaker 1>saying it's it's it's a hard regulation for them. If

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<v Speaker 1>it's one thing if you own a lot of wells,

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<v Speaker 1>or it's another thing if you have a couple of wells.

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<v Speaker 1>And uh, And I think that's the fine line he's

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<v Speaker 1>trying to walk. But I think I think he's supportive

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<v Speaker 1>of doing something about climate change, and I think I

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<v Speaker 1>think you'll see him in the future try to be

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<v Speaker 1>helpful in this area. Chuck. One of the arguments that

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<v Speaker 1>that opponents have used with regard to this regulation is

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<v Speaker 1>that it's duplicative, that there are state regulations out there

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<v Speaker 1>that deal with some of those things. Um, is that

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<v Speaker 1>A Is that a legitimate argument? Well, if you look

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<v Speaker 1>back in history, leaving it to the states and environmental

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<v Speaker 1>protection has never really been a very good strategy because

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<v Speaker 1>you always have the competition than among states. Some states

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<v Speaker 1>are doing more than others, and they'll say, well, you

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<v Speaker 1>really ought to come to our state because our regulations

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<v Speaker 1>are less onerous. Uh, And I think you need to

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<v Speaker 1>have a standard that the federal government sets and the states.

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<v Speaker 1>The state standards are generally not as effective as the

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<v Speaker 1>federal standards and really getting a meaningful reduction in UH,

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<v Speaker 1>this type of potent greenhouse gas methane. Chuck explain this.

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<v Speaker 1>John McCain said in a statement that while I'm concerned

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<v Speaker 1>that the BLM rule may be onerous, passage of the

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<v Speaker 1>resolution and would have prevented the federal government under any

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<v Speaker 1>administration from issuing a rule that is similar. Can you

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<v Speaker 1>explain what that is? The Congressional Review Act? Is this uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know act that allows Congress within a certain time

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<v Speaker 1>when the regulation is enacted at sixty legislative days, and

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<v Speaker 1>how you account that is tricky and usually the uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the the um Congressional Review uh looks at

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<v Speaker 1>it and they sort of say, all right, here, here's where,

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<v Speaker 1>here's where the date starts. But once you pass a

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<v Speaker 1>resolution and is signed in the law by the President,

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<v Speaker 1>as they've done twelve other times, that means not not

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<v Speaker 1>only is that regulation killed, but you can't go back

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<v Speaker 1>and resurrect that regulation in another form, because it basically

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<v Speaker 1>says you cannot without getting congressional approval, you cannot put

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<v Speaker 1>a new regulation in that covers this same issue. That's

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<v Speaker 1>what they think he means there. In other words, he'd

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<v Speaker 1>like to see it cut back a little bit, But

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<v Speaker 1>if this passed, they wouldn't be able to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>The regulation would be out and they wouldn't be able

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<v Speaker 1>to resurrect it in any form, essentially unless Congress went along,

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<v Speaker 1>which they wouldn't have if this had passed. Chuck, how

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<v Speaker 1>big of an impact has this Congressional Review Act had

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<v Speaker 1>had I'll confess, until a few weeks ago, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>think I had had heard of it. But it seems

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<v Speaker 1>as though Republicans have scored some pretty significant victories, both

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<v Speaker 1>environmentally and otherwise against these Obama administration rules that were

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<v Speaker 1>put into effect at the very end of of the

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<v Speaker 1>Obama era. Yes, well, it's interesting that Congressional Review Act

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<v Speaker 1>was enacted in about and it was used once before.

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<v Speaker 1>And here you have a confluence where you have a

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<v Speaker 1>Republican Congress and a Republican president, which you haven't always

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<v Speaker 1>had for any concerted period of time. And not only that,

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<v Speaker 1>but a congressman the president that are really um set

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<v Speaker 1>on rolling back regulations in a big way. And they

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<v Speaker 1>have been you know, twelve different kinds of regulations and

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<v Speaker 1>the financial area, the disclosure areas, from the environmental area,

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<v Speaker 1>and so it has had an impact. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>this is the boast significant, by far, the most significant

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<v Speaker 1>use of this Congressional Review Act that's ever taken place

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<v Speaker 1>since it was put into you know, effect in I

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<v Speaker 1>understand that Thursday is the deadline today for using the

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<v Speaker 1>Congressional Review Act in this way to undo major regulations.

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<v Speaker 1>So are there any Obama era environmental rules that were

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<v Speaker 1>on the block that will now be saved. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think there well, there are regulations that are

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<v Speaker 1>certainly before you know, before I think it was may

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<v Speaker 1>of of that are not subject to it. But I

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if there's anything that they have right

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<v Speaker 1>on the block now. I think that's probably since today

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<v Speaker 1>is the end, I think that's that's that's probably it

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of environmental regulation, although I think that you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to see e p A in interior still be

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<v Speaker 1>looking to revise other environmental regulations, and so you'll see

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<v Speaker 1>more activity on the you know, administrative front, agency front. Chuck,

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<v Speaker 1>what's at the top of the agenda on that front?

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<v Speaker 1>Since we have were I guess ending the Congressional Review

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<v Speaker 1>Act era of the portion of the Trump administration? Where

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<v Speaker 1>do where does the administration turn now? And where the

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans turn now in terms of environmental and energy policy? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I think obviously public enemy number one for the energy

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<v Speaker 1>companies and and you know, and and I think the

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<v Speaker 1>the congressional people and the Trump administration is probably the

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<v Speaker 1>Clean Power Plan And uh, you know that's something that

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<v Speaker 1>the e p A. You know, under Scott Pruitt has

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<v Speaker 1>said they're going to go back and attempt to rewrite it,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think they will, and the d C Circuit

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<v Speaker 1>has held things in abeyance, you know, the case that

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<v Speaker 1>was pending, and I think they're going to go back

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<v Speaker 1>and try to come up with a regulation that's much different. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Whether that's successful or not, we don't know. Um. I

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<v Speaker 1>think part of the problem that you have here is

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<v Speaker 1>that they're bucking a trend in this whole energy and

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<v Speaker 1>environmental area, and that trend is that there's more and

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<v Speaker 1>more use of natural gas, which is the less polluting

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<v Speaker 1>fossil fuel of all