Speaker 1: Democrats are outnumbered in Washington these days, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean they can't pull out the occasional victory. It happened
Speaker 1: this week in the Senate where three Republicans joined all
Speaker 1: forty eight Democrats to leave intact and Obama administration rule
Speaker 1: that would curb emissions of methane, a potent greenhouse gas,
Speaker 1: from drilling operations on public lands. The vote marked the
Speaker 1: first failure for the Republican leadership in an effort to
Speaker 1: roll back in Obama regulation under an obscure law known
Speaker 1: as the Congressional Review Act. How important is this regulation
Speaker 1: and will Republican and industry opponents find another way to
Speaker 1: kill it? We will ask our guests. He is Charles Warren,
Speaker 1: a partner at Cramer Levin, Talas and Frankel Chuck. Thanks
Speaker 1: as always for joining us. Tell us about this rule,
Speaker 1: what what would it do? Well? What the rule would do?
Speaker 1: I think if people are familiar with seeing oil and
Speaker 1: gas wells, and you see them around here off the
Speaker 1: New Jersey Turnpike, they flare off and you can see
Speaker 1: fire go up in the air, and that's what's called
Speaker 1: the venting of gas and what they vent and also
Speaker 1: leak sometimes is methane gas. And methane gas, while it's
Speaker 1: not present in such large numbers as c O two
Speaker 1: that comes from big power plants all over the country,
Speaker 1: is twenty five times more potent a greenhouse gas than
Speaker 1: c O two. So even though it's in small numbers,
Speaker 1: that can have a big impact. And so what this
Speaker 1: regulation basically does, it's it says that they have to
Speaker 1: control the venting and the leaking of the methane gas
Speaker 1: and they have to report periodically on it and take
Speaker 1: steps to minimize, you know, the in the future venting.
Speaker 1: And uh, I think that the idea behind the regulation
Speaker 1: was that you could also use this methane that you
Speaker 1: captured in and sell it off in ways that would
Speaker 1: be economically valuable, uh, you know to the oil and
Speaker 1: gas producers. And they objected, Yeah, go ahead, sorry, you chuck.
Speaker 1: Getting the Trump administration to repeal the methane emissions rule
Speaker 1: had been a top priority of the oil and gas industries,
Speaker 1: and Republicans had been working for weeks to get the
Speaker 1: forty nine votes they needed. Does this defeat mean something
Speaker 1: for environmentalists? Well, I think it's I think it's important
Speaker 1: for environmentalists because this is this is the only loss
Speaker 1: so far under the Congressional Review Act, and uh and
Speaker 1: I think it's an important regulation. But the fight's not
Speaker 1: over yet because still the administration at E p A
Speaker 1: and at the you know, the National Parks and the
Speaker 1: Interior Department can still try to water down the regulation.
Speaker 1: But I think it's you know, I think it's gonna
Speaker 1: make it harder in the administrative process to do it
Speaker 1: where they thought they had an easy way just to
Speaker 1: knock it out. There's also some lawsuit over over this
Speaker 1: rule out there. Does that have any any legs to
Speaker 1: it or is that an administrative avenue that you were
Speaker 1: referring to. Is that the place to watch for for
Speaker 1: the future of this role. Yeah, that I I don't
Speaker 1: think the lawsuits gonna do much, but I think that
Speaker 1: I think the administrative avenues at at E p A
Speaker 1: and Interior that's really what to watch because I know
Speaker 1: there's going to be a concerted effort by those departments
Speaker 1: to try to uh water down the regulation that you
Speaker 1: know that they failed to knock out completely. So chuck
Speaker 1: the real surprise vote. There were three Republicans who voted
Speaker 1: with the Democrats, but the real surprise last minute was
Speaker 1: Senator John McCain, and he was also the target of
Speaker 1: significant lobbying on the climate issue. UM At the same time,
Speaker 1: he said that he would support an effort by the
Speaker 1: Trump administration to rewrite the Obama Rule. So where does
Speaker 1: that leave him as far as the environment and methane. Well,
Speaker 1: I think you know, when you look back in history,
Speaker 1: sent Or McCain has actually been someone who's tried to
Speaker 1: do something about climate change. I mean, going back far back.
Speaker 1: He was involved in supporting a cap and trade proposal
Speaker 1: to control power plant emissions that didn't get anywhere. But
Speaker 1: so I think he I think in the back of
Speaker 1: his mind he's still, uh, you would like to do
Speaker 1: things about climate change. And he's probably trying to walk
Speaker 1: a fine line by saying he'd like to cut like
Speaker 1: to see it cut back a little bit. And probably
Speaker 1: that goes to the small producers because they're complaining and
Speaker 1: saying it's it's it's a hard regulation for them. If
Speaker 1: it's one thing if you own a lot of wells,
Speaker 1: or it's another thing if you have a couple of wells.
Speaker 1: And uh, And I think that's the fine line he's
Speaker 1: trying to walk. But I think I think he's supportive
Speaker 1: of doing something about climate change, and I think I
Speaker 1: think you'll see him in the future try to be
Speaker 1: helpful in this area. Chuck. One of the arguments that
Speaker 1: that opponents have used with regard to this regulation is
Speaker 1: that it's duplicative, that there are state regulations out there
Speaker 1: that deal with some of those things. Um, is that
Speaker 1: A Is that a legitimate argument? Well, if you look
Speaker 1: back in history, leaving it to the states and environmental
Speaker 1: protection has never really been a very good strategy because
Speaker 1: you always have the competition than among states. Some states
Speaker 1: are doing more than others, and they'll say, well, you
Speaker 1: really ought to come to our state because our regulations
Speaker 1: are less onerous. Uh, And I think you need to
Speaker 1: have a standard that the federal government sets and the states.
Speaker 1: The state standards are generally not as effective as the
Speaker 1: federal standards and really getting a meaningful reduction in UH,
Speaker 1: this type of potent greenhouse gas methane. Chuck explain this.
Speaker 1: John McCain said in a statement that while I'm concerned
Speaker 1: that the BLM rule may be onerous, passage of the
Speaker 1: resolution and would have prevented the federal government under any
Speaker 1: administration from issuing a rule that is similar. Can you
Speaker 1: explain what that is? The Congressional Review Act? Is this uh,
Speaker 1: you know act that allows Congress within a certain time
Speaker 1: when the regulation is enacted at sixty legislative days, and
Speaker 1: how you account that is tricky and usually the uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the the um Congressional Review uh looks at
Speaker 1: it and they sort of say, all right, here, here's where,
Speaker 1: here's where the date starts. But once you pass a
Speaker 1: resolution and is signed in the law by the President,
Speaker 1: as they've done twelve other times, that means not not
Speaker 1: only is that regulation killed, but you can't go back
Speaker 1: and resurrect that regulation in another form, because it basically
Speaker 1: says you cannot without getting congressional approval, you cannot put
Speaker 1: a new regulation in that covers this same issue. That's
Speaker 1: what they think he means there. In other words, he'd
Speaker 1: like to see it cut back a little bit, But
Speaker 1: if this passed, they wouldn't be able to do that.
Speaker 1: The regulation would be out and they wouldn't be able
Speaker 1: to resurrect it in any form, essentially unless Congress went along,
Speaker 1: which they wouldn't have if this had passed. Chuck, how
Speaker 1: big of an impact has this Congressional Review Act had
Speaker 1: had I'll confess, until a few weeks ago, I don't
Speaker 1: think I had had heard of it. But it seems
Speaker 1: as though Republicans have scored some pretty significant victories, both
Speaker 1: environmentally and otherwise against these Obama administration rules that were
Speaker 1: put into effect at the very end of of the
Speaker 1: Obama era. Yes, well, it's interesting that Congressional Review Act
Speaker 1: was enacted in about and it was used once before.
Speaker 1: And here you have a confluence where you have a
Speaker 1: Republican Congress and a Republican president, which you haven't always
Speaker 1: had for any concerted period of time. And not only that,
Speaker 1: but a congressman the president that are really um set
Speaker 1: on rolling back regulations in a big way. And they
Speaker 1: have been you know, twelve different kinds of regulations and
Speaker 1: the financial area, the disclosure areas, from the environmental area,
Speaker 1: and so it has had an impact. And I think
Speaker 1: this is the boast significant, by far, the most significant
Speaker 1: use of this Congressional Review Act that's ever taken place
Speaker 1: since it was put into you know, effect in I
Speaker 1: understand that Thursday is the deadline today for using the
Speaker 1: Congressional Review Act in this way to undo major regulations.
Speaker 1: So are there any Obama era environmental rules that were
Speaker 1: on the block that will now be saved. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't think there well, there are regulations that are
Speaker 1: certainly before you know, before I think it was may
Speaker 1: of of that are not subject to it. But I
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's anything that they have right
Speaker 1: on the block now. I think that's probably since today
Speaker 1: is the end, I think that's that's that's probably it
Speaker 1: in terms of environmental regulation, although I think that you're
Speaker 1: going to see e p A in interior still be
Speaker 1: looking to revise other environmental regulations, and so you'll see
Speaker 1: more activity on the you know, administrative front, agency front. Chuck,
Speaker 1: what's at the top of the agenda on that front?
Speaker 1: Since we have were I guess ending the Congressional Review
Speaker 1: Act era of the portion of the Trump administration? Where
Speaker 1: do where does the administration turn now? And where the
Speaker 1: Republicans turn now in terms of environmental and energy policy? Well,
Speaker 1: I think obviously public enemy number one for the energy
Speaker 1: companies and and you know, and and I think the
Speaker 1: the congressional people and the Trump administration is probably the
Speaker 1: Clean Power Plan And uh, you know that's something that
Speaker 1: the e p A. You know, under Scott Pruitt has
Speaker 1: said they're going to go back and attempt to rewrite it,
Speaker 1: and I think they will, and the d C Circuit
Speaker 1: has held things in abeyance, you know, the case that
Speaker 1: was pending, and I think they're going to go back
Speaker 1: and try to come up with a regulation that's much different. Now.
Speaker 1: Whether that's successful or not, we don't know. Um. I
Speaker 1: think part of the problem that you have here is
Speaker 1: that they're bucking a trend in this whole energy and
Speaker 1: environmental area, and that trend is that there's more and
Speaker 1: more use of natural gas, which is the less polluting
Speaker 1: fossil fuel of all