1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Democrats are outnumbered in Washington these days, but that doesn't 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,040 Speaker 1: mean they can't pull out the occasional victory. It happened 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: this week in the Senate where three Republicans joined all 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: forty eight Democrats to leave intact and Obama administration rule 5 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: that would curb emissions of methane, a potent greenhouse gas, 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: from drilling operations on public lands. The vote marked the 7 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: first failure for the Republican leadership in an effort to 8 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: roll back in Obama regulation under an obscure law known 9 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: as the Congressional Review Act. How important is this regulation 10 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: and will Republican and industry opponents find another way to 11 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: kill it? We will ask our guests. He is Charles Warren, 12 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: a partner at Cramer Levin, Talas and Frankel Chuck. Thanks 13 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 1: as always for joining us. Tell us about this rule, 14 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: what what would it do? Well? What the rule would do? 15 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: I think if people are familiar with seeing oil and 16 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: gas wells, and you see them around here off the 17 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: New Jersey Turnpike, they flare off and you can see 18 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: fire go up in the air, and that's what's called 19 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: the venting of gas and what they vent and also 20 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: leak sometimes is methane gas. And methane gas, while it's 21 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,360 Speaker 1: not present in such large numbers as c O two 22 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: that comes from big power plants all over the country, 23 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:18,119 Speaker 1: is twenty five times more potent a greenhouse gas than 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,839 Speaker 1: c O two. So even though it's in small numbers, 25 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: that can have a big impact. And so what this 26 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: regulation basically does, it's it says that they have to 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: control the venting and the leaking of the methane gas 28 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 1: and they have to report periodically on it and take 29 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: steps to minimize, you know, the in the future venting. 30 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: And uh, I think that the idea behind the regulation 31 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: was that you could also use this methane that you 32 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: captured in and sell it off in ways that would 33 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: be economically valuable, uh, you know to the oil and 34 00:01:55,440 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: gas producers. And they objected, Yeah, go ahead, sorry, you chuck. 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 1: Getting the Trump administration to repeal the methane emissions rule 36 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: had been a top priority of the oil and gas industries, 37 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: and Republicans had been working for weeks to get the 38 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: forty nine votes they needed. Does this defeat mean something 39 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: for environmentalists? Well, I think it's I think it's important 40 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: for environmentalists because this is this is the only loss 41 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: so far under the Congressional Review Act, and uh and 42 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: I think it's an important regulation. But the fight's not 43 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: over yet because still the administration at E p A 44 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: and at the you know, the National Parks and the 45 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: Interior Department can still try to water down the regulation. 46 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,079 Speaker 1: But I think it's you know, I think it's gonna 47 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: make it harder in the administrative process to do it 48 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 1: where they thought they had an easy way just to 49 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: knock it out. There's also some lawsuit over over this 50 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: rule out there. Does that have any any legs to 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: it or is that an administrative avenue that you were 52 00:03:02,440 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: referring to. Is that the place to watch for for 53 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 1: the future of this role. Yeah, that I I don't 54 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: think the lawsuits gonna do much, but I think that 55 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,880 Speaker 1: I think the administrative avenues at at E p A 56 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 1: and Interior that's really what to watch because I know 57 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: there's going to be a concerted effort by those departments 58 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: to try to uh water down the regulation that you 59 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:29,919 Speaker 1: know that they failed to knock out completely. So chuck 60 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: the real surprise vote. There were three Republicans who voted 61 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: with the Democrats, but the real surprise last minute was 62 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: Senator John McCain, and he was also the target of 63 00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: significant lobbying on the climate issue. UM At the same time, 64 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 1: he said that he would support an effort by the 65 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: Trump administration to rewrite the Obama Rule. So where does 66 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: that leave him as far as the environment and methane. Well, 67 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: I think you know, when you look back in history, 68 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: sent Or McCain has actually been someone who's tried to 69 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: do something about climate change. I mean, going back far back. 70 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: He was involved in supporting a cap and trade proposal 71 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: to control power plant emissions that didn't get anywhere. But 72 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 1: so I think he I think in the back of 73 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: his mind he's still, uh, you would like to do 74 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: things about climate change. And he's probably trying to walk 75 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: a fine line by saying he'd like to cut like 76 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: to see it cut back a little bit. And probably 77 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: that goes to the small producers because they're complaining and 78 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: saying it's it's it's a hard regulation for them. If 79 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: it's one thing if you own a lot of wells, 80 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: or it's another thing if you have a couple of wells. 81 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 1: And uh, And I think that's the fine line he's 82 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: trying to walk. But I think I think he's supportive 83 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: of doing something about climate change, and I think I 84 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: think you'll see him in the future try to be 85 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: helpful in this area. Chuck. One of the arguments that 86 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: that opponents have used with regard to this regulation is 87 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: that it's duplicative, that there are state regulations out there 88 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: that deal with some of those things. Um, is that 89 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,279 Speaker 1: A Is that a legitimate argument? Well, if you look 90 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: back in history, leaving it to the states and environmental 91 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: protection has never really been a very good strategy because 92 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: you always have the competition than among states. Some states 93 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 1: are doing more than others, and they'll say, well, you 94 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: really ought to come to our state because our regulations 95 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: are less onerous. Uh, And I think you need to 96 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: have a standard that the federal government sets and the states. 97 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: The state standards are generally not as effective as the 98 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: federal standards and really getting a meaningful reduction in UH, 99 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: this type of potent greenhouse gas methane. Chuck explain this. 100 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: John McCain said in a statement that while I'm concerned 101 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: that the BLM rule may be onerous, passage of the 102 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,679 Speaker 1: resolution and would have prevented the federal government under any 103 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: administration from issuing a rule that is similar. Can you 104 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: explain what that is? The Congressional Review Act? Is this uh, 105 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: you know act that allows Congress within a certain time 106 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: when the regulation is enacted at sixty legislative days, and 107 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: how you account that is tricky and usually the uh, 108 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, the the um Congressional Review uh looks at 109 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: it and they sort of say, all right, here, here's where, 110 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:37,359 Speaker 1: here's where the date starts. But once you pass a 111 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,679 Speaker 1: resolution and is signed in the law by the President, 112 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,359 Speaker 1: as they've done twelve other times, that means not not 113 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: only is that regulation killed, but you can't go back 114 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: and resurrect that regulation in another form, because it basically 115 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 1: says you cannot without getting congressional approval, you cannot put 116 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: a new regulation in that covers this same issue. That's 117 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: what they think he means there. In other words, he'd 118 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: like to see it cut back a little bit, But 119 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,280 Speaker 1: if this passed, they wouldn't be able to do that. 120 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: The regulation would be out and they wouldn't be able 121 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: to resurrect it in any form, essentially unless Congress went along, 122 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: which they wouldn't have if this had passed. Chuck, how 123 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: big of an impact has this Congressional Review Act had 124 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: had I'll confess, until a few weeks ago, I don't 125 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: think I had had heard of it. But it seems 126 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 1: as though Republicans have scored some pretty significant victories, both 127 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: environmentally and otherwise against these Obama administration rules that were 128 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: put into effect at the very end of of the 129 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: Obama era. Yes, well, it's interesting that Congressional Review Act 130 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: was enacted in about and it was used once before. 131 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: And here you have a confluence where you have a 132 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: Republican Congress and a Republican president, which you haven't always 133 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: had for any concerted period of time. And not only that, 134 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,679 Speaker 1: but a congressman the president that are really um set 135 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: on rolling back regulations in a big way. And they 136 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: have been you know, twelve different kinds of regulations and 137 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: the financial area, the disclosure areas, from the environmental area, 138 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: and so it has had an impact. And I think 139 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: this is the boast significant, by far, the most significant 140 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,080 Speaker 1: use of this Congressional Review Act that's ever taken place 141 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: since it was put into you know, effect in I 142 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: understand that Thursday is the deadline today for using the 143 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: Congressional Review Act in this way to undo major regulations. 144 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: So are there any Obama era environmental rules that were 145 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: on the block that will now be saved. You know, 146 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 1: I don't think there well, there are regulations that are 147 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: certainly before you know, before I think it was may 148 00:08:55,679 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: of of that are not subject to it. But I 149 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: I don't know if there's anything that they have right 150 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: on the block now. I think that's probably since today 151 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: is the end, I think that's that's that's probably it 152 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: in terms of environmental regulation, although I think that you're 153 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: going to see e p A in interior still be 154 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: looking to revise other environmental regulations, and so you'll see 155 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: more activity on the you know, administrative front, agency front. Chuck, 156 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: what's at the top of the agenda on that front? 157 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: Since we have were I guess ending the Congressional Review 158 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: Act era of the portion of the Trump administration? Where 159 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,559 Speaker 1: do where does the administration turn now? And where the 160 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: Republicans turn now in terms of environmental and energy policy? Well, 161 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: I think obviously public enemy number one for the energy 162 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: companies and and you know, and and I think the 163 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: the congressional people and the Trump administration is probably the 164 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: Clean Power Plan And uh, you know that's something that 165 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: the e p A. You know, under Scott Pruitt has 166 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: said they're going to go back and attempt to rewrite it, 167 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: and I think they will, and the d C Circuit 168 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: has held things in abeyance, you know, the case that 169 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: was pending, and I think they're going to go back 170 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 1: and try to come up with a regulation that's much different. Now. 171 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: Whether that's successful or not, we don't know. Um. I 172 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: think part of the problem that you have here is 173 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 1: that they're bucking a trend in this whole energy and 174 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 1: environmental area, and that trend is that there's more and 175 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 1: more use of natural gas, which is the less polluting 176 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: fossil fuel of all