1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKF Daily with Meet 2 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: your Girl Daniel Moody. Recording from the Home Bunker. Folks, 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: very happy to welcome to the show. On this episode, 4 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: Jared Yates Sexton. I asked Jared to come on the 5 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: show to just talk about the state of the world. Normally, 6 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: when you ask folks to come on, you're like, oh, 7 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: I'd like to talk about this specific thing. I'd like 8 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: to talk about that specific thing. Your book, your pod, 9 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: you're this, you're that. And with this, it was just 10 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:49,720 Speaker 1: like everything just feels bad, right, and I feel bad, 11 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,199 Speaker 1: and he feels bad, and you feel bad, and we 12 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: feel bad, and sometimes you just need to be able 13 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: to talk it out. And that's what this conversation with 14 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 1: Jared is. As we continue to watch the horrific videos 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:08,920 Speaker 1: and news come out of Gaza and in Israel, as 16 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: I continue to be just woefully disappointed in our leaders 17 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: and I mean President Biden, as I continue to not 18 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 1: be able to truly understand that there are millions of 19 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:34,919 Speaker 1: people justifying the murder of children, justifying it and saying 20 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: that it's okay, it's the means justify the end, right. 21 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: There's collateral damage in war. It just really makes me 22 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 1: weep for humanity. And at moments and times when we 23 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: feel like everything outside of us is out of control, 24 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: that is when it is important to begin to do 25 00:01:55,600 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: the work internally. If that means reading, writing, guard caring 26 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: for children, caring for yourself, caring for the elderly, if 27 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: it means connecting with community in a way that feels 28 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: whole to you, right because that's what is being called 29 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: for right now. Donations, if you have the resources to 30 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 1: be able to donate, if you can go through your 31 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: closets and like empty them out and give away things 32 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: like we have to find a way to connect to 33 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: our own humanity in the face of such depravity. That's 34 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: what we're being called for and called to do in 35 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 1: this moment. And so I was really looking forward to 36 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: this conversation with Jared, because you know, he's a scholar, 37 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: he's a human, he's a progressive, and he's someone who's 38 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:54,359 Speaker 1: social media and show I look to when I'm feeling 39 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: alone and feeling like I'm the only one that is 40 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: wanting to connect the dots and everyone else is just 41 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: wanting to be an ostrich. So I hope that you 42 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: enjoy this conversation with my friend, author, professor, podcaster, fellow 43 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: bad ass Jared Yate Sexton. Folks, I am always so 44 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: grateful when I get to talk to some of my 45 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: favorite people, particularly in these precarious, dangerous, grief riddled times. 46 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: And jaredy Eate Sexton, who is the author of The 47 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: Midnight Kingdom, A History of Power, Paranoia, and the Coming Crisis. 48 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: He is also the co host of the Muckrake podcast, 49 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: and just you know a person I need to talk 50 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: to when the world feels like too goddamn much. Jared, 51 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: I will just start off by saying, how are you, 52 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: How are you doing? How have you been well? 53 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: I'll just say, first of all, I feel like when 54 00:04:06,800 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: we're not talking, I'm talking to you in my head, 55 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: like I'm having an ongoing conversation with Moody. But then 56 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:17,279 Speaker 2: it's like when the shit really hits the fan, I 57 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: feel like then we have to have an actual conversation. Yeah, 58 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: it's very, very appreciated, but it's still so much I 59 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: am you know, there's obviously a lot going on. I 60 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: feel it. I'm sure you do as well. I'm sure 61 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: your listeners do as well. There are so many different 62 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 2: crises that are interlocking in every possible way, and they 63 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 2: exert so much pressure on the individual, on society, and 64 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 2: like all of them sort of play together, they're all 65 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: nodded together. And so I guess the truthful answer to 66 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: your question is that I'm keeping my head above water. 67 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: But it is the time that tries the soul. 68 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I fear that, and I feel that. I think 69 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: that these times, and particularly I'm always asking those of 70 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 1: us who make our living, you know, analyzing, critiquing, writing about, 71 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: marinating in the crises that the world is under, whether 72 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: or not you're an expert in foreign affairs, climate change, 73 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: gun reform, any of these things. I think that the 74 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 1: world is taking its toll in a way that I 75 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 1: don't remember when I got into politics, when I got 76 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: into policy, that I felt this dried out. So you're 77 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: wording and you're freezing around, drying of the soul. I 78 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 1: will ask you, before we even dive into the analysis 79 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: of it, how do you keep your head above water? 80 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: Because that's the question that I'm getting a lot from 81 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: the listeners of woo KF, which is just like they 82 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: feel a sense of guilt if they are not in 83 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: the news, watching it all day, reading every last bit, 84 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: seeing every last horrible photo in video and exposing themselves. 85 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: They feel a sense of guilt. So how do you 86 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: manage and if you're not managing well, please you know, 87 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: also share that to be in the fray, but not frayed. 88 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: I mean, that's the question, right, And I'll go ahead 89 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 2: and be honest because I think it's really important to 90 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 2: say this stuff. I'm glad that you phrased it the 91 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: way that you did because I haven't been okay, I 92 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 2: haven't been well. Our jobs are to look at some 93 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 2: of the ugliest and most dangerous things happening in the world. 94 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: Because this is a time where you have to you 95 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: have to pay attention to it, you have to care 96 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:55,160 Speaker 2: about it. You have to like connect the dots in 97 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 2: a way that isn't comfortable, it doesn't feel good. The 98 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,160 Speaker 2: only thing that I have control over is this. It's myself, 99 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: it's my experience, and it's the way that I communicate 100 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 2: with others. So yeah, absolutely, Like you know, my birthday 101 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: was October seventh, Like I woke up on my birthday 102 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: in a hotel room to see the attack in Israel, 103 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: and I knew immediately. I told somebody that morning I said, 104 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 2: I feel like I am watching a modern version of 105 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 2: Sarajevo in the early twentieth century. Yeah, yeah, and that 106 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 2: feeling that history, and we've been feeling it for years now, 107 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 2: Like there was a period of time where if you 108 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 2: wanted to, you could ignore it, you know, you could 109 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 2: just you could be self centered. You could not worry 110 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 2: about politics, you cannot worry about culture or anything. That 111 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 2: time isn't now, and it's not time to simply check out, 112 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 2: Like it's not time to simply become self isolated and 113 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 2: self serving. We have to both heal ourselves in order 114 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 2: to heal the world, and that is the only way 115 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: to go forward. You know. More and more of my research, 116 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 2: what I'm looking at is how the personal becomes political, 117 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: how the personal becomes social and cultural, and and you 118 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: look at how these cycles play themselves out. Like you 119 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: can't afford to not work on yourself and to to 120 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: have a lot more introspection in questioning. So, no, I 121 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 2: haven't been Okay, I feel better now I've worked through it. 122 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: I think I'm trying to stay on top of it. 123 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: But no, this has not been easy. 124 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 1: You know. Well, one happy birthday, belated birthday was but 125 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 1: you know, you are a student and a teacher of 126 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: history and understand and try and provide for for the 127 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: rest of us some context around the parallels that we 128 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: are seeing. And so I want to ask you, you know, 129 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: you bring up Sarajevo. There are other times I think 130 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: that we have been exposed to war and the horrors 131 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: of war. There is something, though, Jared, that is different 132 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: about this time, and so I want to get give 133 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: you the opportunity to tell us what are the parallels 134 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: that you're seeing, But what are the differences that are 135 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,960 Speaker 1: really noticeable at this moment. 136 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: Well, I'll go ahead and I'll start with this, you know, 137 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: watching this thing unfold, one thing that has to always 138 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 2: be stated is that most of the world's crises, the 139 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: really really awful ones that result in mass civilian casualties 140 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,120 Speaker 2: and people just absolutely suffering, it is a result of 141 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: white patriarchal supremacy. I mean, like this entire situation that 142 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: we're looking at now, and I'm not just talking about Israel, 143 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 2: I'm talking about around the world. It is because of 144 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 2: a hegemonic project that has been done in the service 145 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: of patriarchal white supremacy. And we have been told that 146 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: this is the best of all worlds. Don't even question this, 147 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,679 Speaker 2: don't even expect something better. And meanwhile, what happens. It's 148 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: one war and tragedy after another. That happens because this 149 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 2: project was flawed from the very beginning, and the same 150 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 2: people who have benefited from it, white patriarchal men and 151 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 2: the wealthy and the powerful, they have continued to fuck 152 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:09,319 Speaker 2: everything up. And whenever it happens, they don't want to 153 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:11,719 Speaker 2: take responsibility, and they're going to kill people and lead 154 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 2: to more and more conflict. That's where authoritarianism comes from. 155 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: It's whenever that old lie doesn't work anymore, right, and 156 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 2: you can't convince people of it. So as a result, 157 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 2: you have to make people believe it, or you have 158 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: to make people operate within it. That's what's happening right now. 159 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: We're watching the American hegemonic empire decline. That's how this 160 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,440 Speaker 2: entire thing has taken place, and you cannot understand. First 161 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 2: of all, we have to go ahead and acknowledge the 162 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 2: people who are suffering right now. We have innocent Palestinians 163 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: who are being killed by the hundreds every single day, 164 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 2: if not the thousands. If it's one of the more 165 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: tragic days. You have other people who don't feel secure 166 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: in their life and their homes, the property, any of 167 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: those things. And by the way, that's not just Israel, 168 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: that's around the world. Yeah, this entire project was supposed 169 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 2: to bring safety, stability, and prosperity, and it is failed, failed, failed, 170 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: And after decades of American led global leadership, this global 171 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,800 Speaker 2: machine that was built with stars and stripes but was 172 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 2: actually done for corporations and the wealthy, it is coming 173 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: to its fruition. The problem is, and by the way, 174 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 2: this has been the same thing in every major world war. 175 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 2: And I don't just mean World War One or World 176 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 2: War II, I mean every major conflagration, everything from the 177 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 2: Seven Years War to the Thirty Years War. What happens 178 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: is the dominant power that has been in control for 179 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: a long time, a bunch of other people say we 180 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 2: can do better than that, and now is the time 181 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 2: for us to take over. In World War One, it 182 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 2: was Germany saying that they needed more colonies, that they 183 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: needed to be a world power, and so as a result, 184 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 2: they struck out against the British, the French, you name it. 185 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 2: In World War Two, the Germans did it again. Right now, 186 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: it's China, it's Russia, it's Iran, and it's all of 187 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 2: these other countries, the so called axes of resistance, whatever 188 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 2: we want to call it. This situation that's happening is unfortunately, 189 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 2: has been turned into a black and white situation. There's 190 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 2: the good side and the bad side. And what are 191 00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: we missing. We're missing the innocent people at the heart 192 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 2: of all of it, who are suffering. America is going 193 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 2: ahead in supporting Israel in not just atrocities, but a 194 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 2: planned genocide within Gaza. And guess what Russia and China 195 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: are on the other side. They don't care about Palestinians, 196 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 2: they don't care about innocent people suffering. They see this 197 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 2: as a cudgel. And the situation that we're dealing with 198 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 2: right now is that Iran, which has been used by 199 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,520 Speaker 2: Russia and China for its own purposes and for its 200 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: own agenda. We now have a possibility that this situation 201 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: that should have been avoided in the first place, because 202 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 2: the Palestinians should have had their own state and they 203 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,920 Speaker 2: should have had their own dignity. From all of this, 204 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: this situation is being turned into a receptacle that can 205 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: grow and grow and grow and push against American hegemony 206 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: right now, every single day, in Lebanon, in Syria, you 207 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 2: name it, Yemen, wherever you want to look. This thing 208 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 2: is being pressured. And I keep likening it to the 209 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 2: United States of America carrying around too many plates and 210 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 2: too many glasses, trying not to let any crash. Guess what, 211 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,959 Speaker 2: Eventually you carry too many of those things, they fall 212 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: and they crash. Ukraine was a theater in this whole thing, 213 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: and now Israel and Gaza is a theater in this 214 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: whole thing. And we're not going to succeed if we 215 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 2: keep playing this game. 216 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: It is I mean, Jared, the way that you just 217 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: laid this out and what I have been feeling and sensing, 218 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: and as somebody who is a student of history but 219 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: is not a historian, is not and I tell people 220 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,840 Speaker 1: this all the time as a engaging conversation around what 221 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: is happening in Israel and palestein that I am not 222 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: a foreign affairs person or expert. I am an expert 223 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: in humanity, right and what I am seeing is exactly 224 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,239 Speaker 1: this proxy that is being set up, this new axis 225 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: that is forming between these powers. Because America has been 226 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: faltering for close to a decade at this point. For 227 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: the last where I was for the for the last 228 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: eight years, proper right, we have been a backsliding democracy. 229 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: People have seen the fact that America, our government has 230 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: no idea what it's doing and is dealing with its 231 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: own fascistic authoritarian rise. And so who are you then 232 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: to be the authority to govern anything? And frankly, what 233 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: you have put your hands on and put your money 234 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: into has has resulted in so much more depth than 235 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 1: the story that we actually want to carry back and 236 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: tell at home. 237 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 2: And by the way, you would not have this rising 238 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 2: access if the United States of America didn't value power 239 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 2: and profit correct with the dignity of human beings. Why 240 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 2: is Vladimir Putin in power? Because the United States saw 241 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: the ability to go ahead and turn Russia into an authoritarian, 242 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,000 Speaker 2: capitalist pair paradise. He was absolutely our man on the inside. 243 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 2: We didn't care how many people he killed, We didn't 244 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 2: care what he did and what he did to normal 245 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: human beings. With China, we were more than happy to 246 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: go ahead and have their people work at slave wages. 247 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 2: Ye to take every other country around the world, whether 248 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: it's Vietnam or Malaysia, and take those people and make 249 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 2: them work for slave wages. We did that in order 250 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: to build up corporate profits and power. The entire time 251 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,440 Speaker 2: America stumbled out of the starting gate of the quote 252 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: unquote American Empire. The first thing we did as everything 253 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:35,880 Speaker 2: ended in the nineteen forties is we said, hey, Nazis, 254 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 2: you all know rockets, come on over, we'll talk. You know, 255 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: you can go ahead and help us fight the USSR. 256 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 2: We have compromised any espouse principles that we've had from 257 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 2: the very beginning, the American hegemonic empire has been a 258 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 2: villainous enterprise that's been hidden behind a ton of rhetoric 259 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 2: about freedom and human dignity. And while that has happened, 260 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 2: it's like a tooth. Like a tooth is fine for 261 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: a while, but it decays, and it decays and it 262 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 2: decays until one day there's nothing left and it just 263 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: falls out. And that's what has happened here. We have 264 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: misplayed all of the quote unquote responsibility that we got 265 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 2: in the beginning. You look at everything from Vietnam to 266 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 2: what we've done in South America. All of these decisions 267 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 2: were to push corporate and wealth profits. That's it. And 268 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 2: eventually over time, there's no base, there's no foundation, and 269 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 2: then you reach a point where again Putin and China, 270 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 2: all of these things that we use to our advantage, 271 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 2: now all of a sudden you look around and you're like, 272 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 2: what's going on? Why is this falling out of place? 273 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 2: Why are we in this chaotic spot? And it's because 274 00:16:38,040 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: America and its corporate donors and backers, the ones who 275 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: have profited from this project, they put profit over human dignity. 276 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: Every single time, white patriarchal supremacy does not work. And 277 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,680 Speaker 2: on top of that, it only destroys any moral or 278 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 2: ethical leadership that you could possibly hope to find. And 279 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: what happens you come to the end of the Americamerican Empire, 280 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 2: the American empirical experiment. What do you do? And I 281 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 2: have to tell you it's not supporting Israel as you're 282 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 2: murdering children every single day. It doesn't work in terms 283 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 2: of like creating these black and white paradigms that plays 284 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: into that that does nothing but help Russia and China. 285 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 2: The only thing we can do at this point is 286 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,160 Speaker 2: to take a long, hard look at ourselves, which is 287 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:22,959 Speaker 2: not our strength. 288 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: I'm what, America, are you talking about don't we don't 289 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: do self reflection. 290 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 2: But I will say, I will say, and I don't 291 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 2: know how you feel about it. I'm a veteran of 292 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 2: the Iraq war build up. I was organizing and protesting 293 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 2: that back in two thousand and three to one the 294 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 2: most frustrating and sad moments of my entire life. It's 295 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 2: what radicalized me, It's what made me who I am. 296 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: I'm amazed that as I turn on television stations, I 297 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 2: am seeing warmongering. I am seeing people apologize for atrocities 298 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 2: and war crimes and call for genocide. You know who's 299 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,879 Speaker 2: not buying it? The American people. Yeah, the American people 300 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 2: don't buy this shit. They're done with it. And that's 301 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 2: part of the issue in all of this is that 302 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 2: while America is stumbling empirically, the American people are waking 303 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 2: up and they don't want anything to do with this. 304 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 2: And it shows in our labor, it shows in our politics. 305 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,600 Speaker 2: And the only problem I have with this, and I 306 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 2: this is something I harp on. I want to let 307 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 2: people know, like the more the democracy rises and actual 308 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,719 Speaker 2: populism rises, that's when the wealthy, I don't know, they 309 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 2: start to sick. The dogs on you. They start to 310 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: they start to really come after you. This story doesn't work, 311 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:32,359 Speaker 2: this push doesn't work. People are not buying it. And 312 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,679 Speaker 2: so as a result, the question is what happens from that? 313 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: And that's what I'm keeping an eye on. 314 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: You know, I think that what is really, what is 315 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,239 Speaker 1: both terrifying and gratifying at the same time, is that 316 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 1: there is a level of consciousness that is at play. 317 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: To the point that you just made that the narrative, 318 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: the narrative lie that we have been indoctrinated with about 319 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 1: America and freedom and justice and welcoming and what is 320 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: carved into our statues has never been at the center 321 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: of our policies, whether they are domestic or foreign. Because money, right, 322 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: as Wu Tang had said, cash rules everything around me, right, 323 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: and that collection of greed, which is also a part 324 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 1: that fuels white supremacy, because white supremacy is fueled by greed, right, 325 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: and is fueled by power right. And so you have 326 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: this idea that the story. People are starting to question 327 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: the story, which is why they're starting to ban the books, right. 328 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: They ban the books and they rewrite curriculum because too 329 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: many people are saying, wait a minute, this doesn't seem 330 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: to jive, right, This doesn't really make sense. And so 331 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: when you have a president which my god Biden right now, 332 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,280 Speaker 1: his poll numbers right, which I always say on this show, 333 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,439 Speaker 1: I don't take a lot of stock in poll numbers. 334 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: But let me tell you something. When you drop well 335 00:19:56,119 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: below forty percent right in the last two fucking weeks, 336 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: because you are just in lockstep with a homicidal like 337 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: fascist who is netan Yahoo that his own goddamn people 338 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: don't like him, hate his own people hate him. The 339 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 1: hostages that are being released are saying you failed us 340 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:25,600 Speaker 1: yep right, and are telling the story, and you got 341 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: Fox News breaking away from that coverage because let us 342 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: not tell the truth. I feel like we are at 343 00:20:34,480 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: the breaking of the breaking point, Jared, where two for 344 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: the for the power players, too many people are awake, 345 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,359 Speaker 1: For people like you and me, not enough people are awake. 346 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: And I'm just wondering, as you are watching these parallels 347 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 1: play out with our history and what we've always known 348 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: to be true, with the coexisting with the reality that 349 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: people are waking up to, what do you think about 350 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: the American Project and twenty twenty four Because all of 351 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,959 Speaker 1: this is the backdrop to that. 352 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:17,440 Speaker 2: Well, first of all, what you just put your finger 353 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 2: on couldn't be more right. I was writing about this 354 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 2: in my book American Role and then The Midnight Kingdom. Again, 355 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 2: it's the noble lie. It's a platonic idea that, you know, 356 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: you have to tell people a story about how society 357 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 2: works so that they'll believe in it. And eventually what 358 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 2: happens is the noble lie loses its power because guess what, 359 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 2: you don't have to write books, you don't have to 360 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: host podcast, you don't have to be an expert to 361 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 2: look around and say shit doesn't work. Everybody in America 362 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 2: recognizes it now. And that's across all political stripes. Our 363 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: politics are actually right now in expression of everybody being 364 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:53,959 Speaker 2: dissatisfied with what's going on. It just so happens with 365 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,160 Speaker 2: how do they blame? Who do they blame for it? Right? 366 00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: You got to blame corporations. Are they going to blame 367 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 2: Donald Trump? Are they gonna blame you know, Jewish people, 368 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 2: or are they gonna blame conspiracies? Whatever it is, everybody 369 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 2: right now knows it. And guess what happens whenever a 370 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 2: major power the noble lie starts to flicker. You got 371 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 2: to find a new noble lie. You're either going to 372 00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: lose all that power which happened with the British Empire. 373 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 2: And it's important in this conversation to understand that capitalism 374 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:24,240 Speaker 2: is a parasite. It jumps from post host It wasn't 375 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 2: always like America, wasn't always at the head of the table. 376 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 2: It left Great Britain and came to America and it 377 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 2: has sucked a lot of blood and it's ready to go. 378 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 2: It's either going to have like an authoritarian system or 379 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 2: it's gonna go looking for one. And I don't know, 380 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 2: say China, right like, those are the stakes right now. 381 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 2: The question is whether or not we can wrestle this 382 00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 2: thing under control I personally, and I don't know how 383 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 2: you feel about it. I look at twenty twenty four. 384 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,199 Speaker 2: At this point, man, is it starting to look a 385 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 2: lot like a nineteen sixty eight. It's starting to look 386 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 2: a lot like a populist movement that is active for 387 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,760 Speaker 2: social revolution, for economic revolution. And guess what, it's fed 388 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 2: up with everybody. And I got to tell you, you know, 389 00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:09,119 Speaker 2: there have been some moments in all this where Joe 390 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 2: Biden has come out and said something They're like, well, 391 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 2: that's almost reasonable. But guess what. I also see a 392 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:18,080 Speaker 2: husk of a president. I see a person who isn't 393 00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,800 Speaker 2: capable of this. I see it. And by the way, 394 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 2: more than ever, we need a bridge to the future. 395 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 2: We need an alternate vision of how the future should 396 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 2: feel as opposed to how it feels right now. He 397 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,640 Speaker 2: is not the man to do that. And quite frankly, 398 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: I keep telling people this, and I don't want to 399 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 2: be right about this. If you came back from November 400 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four and told me that either Joe Biden 401 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 2: or Donald Trump didn't survive to November, I would not 402 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 2: be shocked. Like, this is a weird moving situation that 403 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 2: is changing. Actually not even by the month. It's changing 404 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 2: by the day, day by the day. And I got 405 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 2: to tell you, there is nothing that I see in 406 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 2: developing news that tells me like we're in October twenty 407 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 2: twenty three. There is no way in hell that October 408 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty four looks anything like October twenty twenty three. 409 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,360 Speaker 1: Oh my god, this. 410 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,880 Speaker 2: Thing is gathering and right now there are a lot 411 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 2: of bets that I would put on the table, like 412 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 2: from what I'm seeing and how these things usually play out. 413 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 2: There are a lot of things that I'm anticipating and 414 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 2: by the way, they're getting checked off, and that worries me. 415 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 2: But at the same time, one thing that I've learned 416 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 2: looking at history is that nothing changes if there isn't tension. 417 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,760 Speaker 2: I've told people for years, I said, I think it's 418 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 2: going to get better, but you need to understand that 419 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen was bad. But things are going to get 420 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,000 Speaker 2: a whole lot worse than twenty sixteen, and they are. 421 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: This is going to be a tribulation, is what it's 422 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: going to be. 423 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: But I do have hope, you know, I will say 424 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: this to your point about nineteen sixty eight two. It 425 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: was a revolutionary year, it was a revolutionary time. It 426 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,439 Speaker 1: was also one of the bloodiest, right, And I have 427 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: been saying on this show since the beginning of this 428 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: show that things will in fact get better, but they 429 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,199 Speaker 1: will get bloodier before then, and that's just you know, 430 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: the reality. So final thoughts for. 431 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 2: You, well, I just real fast on that note. I'm 432 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 2: so glad you brought that up. You know, I don't 433 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,640 Speaker 2: want to blow up your airing schedule, but we're taping 434 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 2: this on I believe it's Thursday. It's a hard it's 435 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: a hard thing. 436 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: Yeah there, who knows. 437 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 2: We're taping this on October twenty sixth, and last night, 438 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,800 Speaker 2: what from all terms, we can see a right wing 439 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 2: authoritarian extremist went into a bunch of places in Maine 440 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 2: and killed at last count, you know, dozens of people. 441 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 2: You know, you just said nineteen sixty it was bloody. 442 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 2: People remember that because of bombings. They remember that, you know, 443 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 2: they remember that era because there were bombings. They remember 444 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 2: that era because of course, you know, things like Kent State. 445 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 2: People do not want to look at the fact that 446 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 2: mass shooting in this country is asymmetrical terrorism, like there 447 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 2: has been a lot of blood spilled in this country 448 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 2: over the past few years. People don't want to admit it. 449 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 2: They want to say, oh, it's lone nuts, it's people 450 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 2: off their meds, it's people you know that aren't well. No, 451 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 2: this is political terrorism and it's been happening left and right, 452 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 2: and you can't look at any of this stuff without 453 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 2: seeing it. If you're being honest with yourself, with an 454 00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 2: open heart and open mind, you're absolutely right. Next year 455 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 2: and this year are i mean already incredibly bloody it 456 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 2: is going to be a hard time. I mean, even 457 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 2: since we started recording this, I'm going to have to 458 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 2: go and check and see what's happening in Israel right now, 459 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 2: you know, like it changes hour by hour, This conflict 460 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 2: consistently switches. The problem is that America again, it just 461 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,120 Speaker 2: it is incapable of actual introspection and putting things into 462 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: context in order to learn from them. The American people, however, 463 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 2: are different, and yeah, all people are different. I don't 464 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,440 Speaker 2: care if they're Palestinian, or Israeli or the American. When 465 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: you stop looking at those nations and you start looking 466 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 2: at human beings. We deserve to be free. We have dignity, yes, 467 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,960 Speaker 2: and we start to piece things together after a while, 468 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: all of us do. And when that happens, that's when 469 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: the hammer starts to come down. But I am incredibly 470 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: hopeful that it is a precarious, weird time and. 471 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: I can think of nobody better to be in conversation 472 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:21,880 Speaker 1: with and a comrade in in this than you, my friend, 473 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 1: jaredy eight Sexton. Thank you, as always so much. We 474 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: will bring you back more for these conversations because they 475 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,720 Speaker 1: are needed for joining wokef always appreciate you. 476 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,639 Speaker 2: Can we do this on like a sunny Friday. Can 477 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,200 Speaker 2: we talk about like what we're doing for the weekend, 478 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 2: Like can we get there at some point? 479 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 1: That would be lovely. 480 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 2: I would love that. 481 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: That is it for me today, dear friends on wokef 482 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: as always, power to the people and to all the people. Power, 483 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.