Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're eating
Speaker 1: ice cream for breakfast, doing our most intense rage burning workout,
Speaker 1: mobilizing to support the most vulnerable among us, and doing
Speaker 1: whatever the hell else we need to do to make
Speaker 1: it through today's inauguration. It's Monday, January twentieth, and on
Speaker 1: today's show, we'll be talking to writer, author, podcast host,
Speaker 1: and my personal career fairy godmother Jamel Hill about the
Speaker 1: dumpster fire ahead, how a second Trump presidency could impact
Speaker 1: the women's sports landscape, and how to hold space when
Speaker 1: things get bleak.
Speaker 2: That conversation with Jamal is coming up right after this
Speaker 2: joining us.
Speaker 1: She's a staff writer for the Atlantic, co founder of
Speaker 1: Lodge Freeway Media, author of the memoir Uphill, host of
Speaker 1: the new iHeart podcasts, politics, and host and executive producer
Speaker 1: of the new sports magazine style show Above the Fold
Speaker 1: on True TV. I was present for her first date
Speaker 1: with her now husband. The pins we put in our
Speaker 1: imaginary voodoo dolls are intended for the same person. She's
Speaker 1: my career fairy godmother and one of my all time faves,
Speaker 1: and she's with us from Bora Bora.
Speaker 2: It's Jamel Hill. What's up, Jamel?
Speaker 3: Everything is good. I mean, obviously I'm in Bora, Bora,
Speaker 3: and I guess if you see the video of this, no,
Speaker 3: I have not been kidnapped and put in a beach sheck.
Speaker 3: So if everybody's wondered, like, what is the bamboo that
Speaker 3: is behind you? That is? That is why. So yeah,
Speaker 3: you're the celebrate a friend's birthday, but always always happy
Speaker 3: to take time for you.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I like how you went to kidnapped.
Speaker 1: I was like, you look like in your cabana having
Speaker 1: a fruity drink. So I went positive on the visual
Speaker 1: for that one. You have been a mentor to me,
Speaker 1: an inspiration and example a friend. I'm so glad you're
Speaker 1: here today because we're recording this a few days ahead
Speaker 1: of Monday, which we're bracing ourselves for. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a tough day for a lot of us, and
Speaker 1: I think we'll really benefit from hearing your wisdom and
Speaker 1: your insight, your sense of humor, your ability to balance
Speaker 1: all things in life as we steal ourselves for what's
Speaker 1: to come. Before we get to that, I do want
Speaker 1: to ask you about how you and your friends and
Speaker 1: your house and everything are doing in LA.
Speaker 3: So you know, it is a very harrowing time, even
Speaker 3: though obviously right now I'm not in LA, but I've
Speaker 3: just been gone for a few days. And it's hard
Speaker 3: to describe to people the level of anxiety because even
Speaker 3: if you don't live in an area that has been
Speaker 3: directly impacted, it's hard not to imagine all these doomsday
Speaker 3: scenarios where you will be directly in that situation. You know,
Speaker 3: we live in an area. We're right on top of
Speaker 3: Englewood and so we're very close to the airport. But
Speaker 3: the heroing part for us is that we live right
Speaker 3: by a state recreation area and also a huge oil field.
Speaker 3: And there was a fire that was put out as
Speaker 3: the other fires were ranging that was less than five
Speaker 3: miles from a house. It's probably three miles that would
Speaker 3: probably be our guests. Thankfully the fire department, God blessed them.
Speaker 3: They put this out. They got on it quick, a
Speaker 3: transformer blue. So far as we know, it was an arson,
Speaker 3: but that could have been extremely bad given the conditions
Speaker 3: of the wind conditions and everything else. But everybody I
Speaker 3: know that lives in LA knows somebody who lost their home. Everyone,
Speaker 3: And so that's how close it is to you. I
Speaker 3: know people who've had to evacuate, I know people who've
Speaker 3: lost their homes. So it's just really it's really a
Speaker 3: dark time. And I can say what doesn't help is
Speaker 3: that it actually it's made me more mindful and self aware,
Speaker 3: because certainly I have been guilty of chiming in on
Speaker 3: disasters that are happening in other parts of the country
Speaker 3: because I see people affected, I see people who are
Speaker 3: suffering or that kind of thing, and so you automatically
Speaker 3: want to rush jump in and say like, hey, this
Speaker 3: is messed up, Hey whatever, whatever. And while certainly everybody's
Speaker 3: allowed their opinions, I'm not saying that, but the level
Speaker 3: of criticism and frankly you feel it is like the
Speaker 3: level of hatred being directed at LA is crazy. I
Speaker 3: need people to understand. And this is not to say
Speaker 3: that they are just di biding their homes being lost either.
Speaker 3: If you're a celebrity and lost their house, those are
Speaker 3: your things, those are your possessions. You're a human being,
Speaker 3: so I feel for them as well. But because the
Speaker 3: narrative that only celebrities are losing their homes has been
Speaker 3: the dominant narrative in the media. It has allowed you
Speaker 3: see the disday that people have and there's like, who
Speaker 3: gives about these rich people that lost their house? Let
Speaker 3: me let me tell you the majority of people losing
Speaker 3: their homes are not rich. They're not millionaires. There's beloved
Speaker 3: communities Pasadena, Altadena, especially Altadena, this is a historically black
Speaker 3: area where you have generations of black folks that have
Speaker 3: been there that this was their American dream because a
Speaker 3: lot of other places in Los Angeles. I know LA
Speaker 3: has this sort of liberal narrative, but LA was just
Speaker 3: as racist as a lot of cities in America, you know,
Speaker 3: when it came to migration patterns, and there was a
Speaker 3: lot of places that would not rent or or allow
Speaker 3: black people to own homes. So this was an area
Speaker 3: that a lot of black folks settled and it became
Speaker 3: their American dream. And that place is destroyed. And so,
Speaker 3: you know, people need to understand that it's not just
Speaker 3: rich people losing things. And you know, people have this
Speaker 3: whole idea of like Hollywood is as much love and
Speaker 3: hatred for so feeling the hatred from certain parts of
Speaker 3: the nation and certain people, and you know what I'm
Speaker 3: talking about has been very tough to, it's been hard
Speaker 3: because it just there's no empathy there for people, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, man, this is kind of pocked up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the pain of all the loss and the fear,
Speaker 1: combined with the hatred and the ridiculous idea that there
Speaker 1: would be some sort of regulation on how much support
Speaker 1: you would get based on whether you're agreeing with political
Speaker 1: ideas as opposed to humanity coming through, and that's where
Speaker 1: we send our help and our love, and also the
Speaker 1: time it will take to rebuild. As someone who lived
Speaker 1: in LA for six years, and I have lots of
Speaker 1: friends who have been affected, including a few who lost
Speaker 1: their homes, one who lost the rental home they were
Speaker 1: in and the future home they were moving into, both
Speaker 1: of them and all of the things they had. It
Speaker 1: is a place that's full of all different kinds of
Speaker 1: people and it's just going to take such a long
Speaker 1: time and so many things are lost forever, and it's
Speaker 1: really it's been really heartbreaking to watch. So I'm feeling
Speaker 1: for you and feeling for all the people I know
Speaker 1: out there, and it's part of what's been a very
Speaker 1: inauspicious start to twenty twenty five from the violence in
Speaker 1: New Orleans, to the fires in LA, to a different
Speaker 1: kind of weather pattern in DC, which I'll just call
Speaker 1: a shit storm. Is what we're seeing so far. We
Speaker 1: are dealing with a lot. I always try to spend
Speaker 1: things positive. I always try to find a way to
Speaker 1: see the best in things. I'm trying not to presume
Speaker 1: that this could potentially be the highest point of an
Speaker 1: even deeper slide and we might just be facing these
Speaker 1: things over and over again all year long.
Speaker 2: But it's hard to be positive right now.
Speaker 1: And I feel like you always seem to balance your
Speaker 1: personal joy and your light inside with your coverage of
Speaker 1: really tough topics.
Speaker 2: Do you have any tips or tricks for people on
Speaker 2: how you manage to do that?
Speaker 3: The biggest thing I've clung to because all those emotions
Speaker 3: you just expressed, I felt the same way after the election.
Speaker 3: I was like everybody, that was my thought process, right.
Speaker 3: I am like, yo, man, I can't keep doing this
Speaker 3: to myself, right, And I think a lot of people
Speaker 3: who just were I think mostly we were invested in
Speaker 3: turning the page. It felt like, dog, we have an
Speaker 3: opportunity to turn this horrible page and get this man
Speaker 3: about our lives forever. Let's do that. Okay. You might
Speaker 3: have your issues. You might be like, I don't like this.
Speaker 3: Bigger picture is let's get this dude up out the
Speaker 3: pay forever. We could argue about some shit later, all right,
Speaker 3: All up, we can argue about it later, all right.
Speaker 3: So that was sort of my main focus kind of
Speaker 3: going into it, in addition to obviously the respect that
Speaker 3: I have for the Vice president. Not perfect again, nobody,
Speaker 3: no politisic is gonna be perfect. I can take imperfections,
Speaker 3: but it's just a certain level of I don't know,
Speaker 3: just integrity I just need in this job. So at
Speaker 3: any rate, you know, I felt that way, and I
Speaker 3: literally I wanted to check out and for a few weeks,
Speaker 3: but I was just like, you know what, it just
Speaker 3: it's gonna be what it's gonna be. I can't. I
Speaker 3: can't get this invested only to feel this way, you know,
Speaker 3: when it's all over. But then I remember something, and
Speaker 3: this is when I had to check myself and re
Speaker 3: direct my energy and understand. History is such a great teacher,
Speaker 3: and we have to be mindful of the fact that
Speaker 3: there are people who have faced really much more awful
Speaker 3: circumstances than what we're looking at. Right now, it's bad,
Speaker 3: Like I'm not gonna pretend that it isn't. But then
Speaker 3: I think about all the people, all the women, all
Speaker 3: the people of color, all the black women who before
Speaker 3: I ever was a thought bubble, how they fought what
Speaker 3: they were up against, and they didn't even get to
Speaker 3: fight from the position I'm in. I'm fighting this from
Speaker 3: the position of somebody who's a media personality, who's been
Speaker 3: able to write a book, who's been able to do
Speaker 3: all these great things. They weren't fighting from that position.
Speaker 3: They didn't have shit, and they were still fighting and
Speaker 3: invested every single time time, And so I felt like
Speaker 3: I would be letting them down if I checked out.
Speaker 3: I was like, I can't do that. Harry Tubman, did
Speaker 3: she check out?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Check out?
Speaker 3: Like she did not, And so I have to think
Speaker 3: about it in those terms. And I know that seems
Speaker 3: dramatic because obviously we're not still in slavery, But the
Speaker 3: whole point is that, like if Harriet found a way,
Speaker 3: if she can look at the North Star, what am
Speaker 3: I doing? Right? So I think all needs to remember
Speaker 3: that is that there were you know, women or you know,
Speaker 3: even people that you admire in history that really fought
Speaker 3: through some sludge, so we can preserve the fight today.
Speaker 3: And we have to remember it's a consistent battle. An
Speaker 3: election is not lost in an election, it's not one.
Speaker 3: It's like every single step matters. And so that has
Speaker 3: been my north star since I'm on some herriots. That
Speaker 3: has been my north star throughout all of this is
Speaker 3: just remembering the sacrifices that people have made, and even
Speaker 3: the sacrifices of people that made in current times, not
Speaker 3: just in the past. I have friends who are organizers.
Speaker 3: Organizers are the most positive people I have ever met
Speaker 3: in my life, and I love them dearly because they
Speaker 3: find a way to keep going all the time despite
Speaker 3: tremendous setbacks. As seeing their energy, that's what inspired me.
Speaker 1: Organizers are the embodiment of this principle, this motto that
Speaker 1: I hold. That's invincible summer, which is in the darkest
Speaker 1: and coldest winters, I have within me an invincible summer.
Speaker 1: And I feel like those people somehow hang on to
Speaker 1: hope no matter what's around them. They still are like, no,
Speaker 1: we can do this, no matter how many times they
Speaker 1: get punched back.
Speaker 2: I love what you just said.
Speaker 1: It is so important to hang on to and remember,
Speaker 1: and I do not want to ruin it, but I
Speaker 1: do want to tell you we are living in such
Speaker 1: a stupid time that a Hollywood executive suggested that Julia
Speaker 1: Roberts should play Harriet Tubman in a biopic, and then
Speaker 1: when they said Harriet Tubman was black, the person said,
Speaker 1: it was so long ago, no one will know that.
Speaker 1: I just want you to know that we are dealing
Speaker 1: in unprecedented times when it comes to freaking stupidity. So
Speaker 1: I love your Harriet Tubman example, and I also just
Speaker 1: want to remind us.
Speaker 2: Like, what the fuck are we doing? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Right, I mean, but I can't I can't excuse that
Speaker 3: because I have seen that same story. Yeah, but you know,
Speaker 3: and I'm not champing. I'm not saying she should have
Speaker 3: done it, but I say, wow, Julie Roberts, I love
Speaker 3: her man ranged until she got ranged. Man, It's like
Speaker 3: she might have voted off. I don't know, Like, no,
Speaker 3: if they can't mix that in a romantic comedy.
Speaker 2: Type of way, yeah, Queen of the rom coms.
Speaker 3: Runaway Bride would have taken on a totally different meeting.
Speaker 3: That's all I know.
Speaker 2: That is so true.
Speaker 1: That is so true, and Honestly, Hugh Grant would make
Speaker 1: a believable slave owner.
Speaker 2: So throw him in there's something.
Speaker 3: Run Away Bride but with slaves, and then see, I
Speaker 3: can make that joke, Sarah can't.
Speaker 2: That's that's right. I mean, you have a production company.
Speaker 2: What are we waiting for.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm saying this this now that I know
Speaker 3: that we're doing that in Hollywood, and it's funny you
Speaker 3: should say that because I just saw that the President
Speaker 3: elect has now created because you know, the Party of
Speaker 3: Small Government loves to create more government, and so he's
Speaker 3: created a a Hollywood liaison. Oh no, oh yes, with
Speaker 3: three favorites, John Boyd, Sylvester Stallone, and mel Gibson. They
Speaker 3: will be They will be the Hollywood envoy too, to
Speaker 3: bring back I guess, apparently to bring life back to Hollywood.
Speaker 3: So Donald Trump has appointed them to a made up office.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, probably to prevent Marvel and Disney from putting black
Speaker 1: people in their movies.
Speaker 2: That's probably the yes, so.
Speaker 3: Fully expect that when they do. You know, the story
Speaker 3: of Laura Zillhurston or the story like there's gonna be
Speaker 3: some white women like yeah, it's just it's what it is.
Speaker 1: Honestly, we'll be lucky if they do those stories at all,
Speaker 1: even with white women.
Speaker 3: So like, y'all really don't have to worry about black
Speaker 3: people being in movies the next feur years. Like thankfully
Speaker 3: Black Panther three has already been green lit, that's happening.
Speaker 3: That might be the most Black people y'all see in
Speaker 3: any movie the next four years.
Speaker 1: And then maybe I don't know, Stacy dash big comeback
Speaker 1: for her Now, I'm.
Speaker 3: Somewhere happy right now, Like, yes, I knew it would
Speaker 3: come back. I knew it would. But you know, sir,
Speaker 3: it is hard to deny the fact that the level
Speaker 3: of critical thinking is at a low point in this country,
Speaker 3: and that's that's my design. But even even still, even still,
Speaker 3: I'm going to cling to the fact that despite then
Speaker 3: we are living in, we are living in the stupidest
Speaker 3: time we could ever possibly imagine. I'm going to cling
Speaker 3: to the fight that the will of the people, the
Speaker 3: real will of the people, will be heard and throughout Again,
Speaker 3: history has shown this throughout even darker times. And granted
Speaker 3: they have ship like Twitter, they didn't have they didn't have.
Speaker 2: That misinformation the same way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they didn't. They didn't have that, but I would.
Speaker 3: I will say that I think there's something in us
Speaker 3: that will allow for a fight to happen. And so
Speaker 3: if this is what the wake up call that sometimes
Speaker 3: that people need, they do need a wake up call
Speaker 3: sometimes to like, hey man, you can't just sit every
Speaker 3: you can't sit shit out like we have to pay
Speaker 3: attention all the time and know who's minding the store.
Speaker 3: So I'm hopeful that that will, that need for something
Speaker 3: better will take over in this stupid moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel like a bit of a cruel
Speaker 1: joke that Trump's inauguration will happen on Martin Luther King
Speaker 1: Junior Day. What are your plans for Monday? Are you
Speaker 1: ignoring it? Are you hate watching it? Are you watching
Speaker 1: do to work commitments? What's what's Monday looking like?
Speaker 3: So but in a way, though, Sarah, if you look
Speaker 3: at history, it's actually pretty on brand that this would
Speaker 3: happen on the observed day of Martin Luther King Junior's birthday,
Speaker 3: like it is the story of this nation. To be honest,
Speaker 3: is that you know, the hovering of white supremacy, the
Speaker 3: ability for it to regenerate and reinvent has always been
Speaker 3: a part of American history, and so we need in
Speaker 3: some respects, we do need the reminder. We need the
Speaker 3: reminder that, like, hey, everything we died he died for
Speaker 3: we're still fighting for. Like we need that reminder to
Speaker 3: bring it in the focus. But as for my personal plans, honestly,
Speaker 3: I really hadn't. I have a lot of work to
Speaker 3: do Monday, I'll be doing that work, and I don't
Speaker 3: really I didn't have any plans whatever to watch, to commentate,
Speaker 3: to really be invested in it. I guess having been
Speaker 3: through this spend cycle before, you sort of know what
Speaker 3: to expect. I'm just glad I know the bit DC
Speaker 3: anymore and have to witness this up close. But no,
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think it's something that we need
Speaker 3: to It's gonna be triggering, but I don't think we
Speaker 3: need to.
Speaker 2: Look.
Speaker 3: I would say to people, give yourself permission to say
Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm good on that day, I'm taking that
Speaker 3: day off, or I'm just not gonna ignore it or
Speaker 3: pay attention to it. And sometimes, as you know, especially
Speaker 3: in our positions and because of who we are and
Speaker 3: because of the opinions that we have the fighters brought
Speaker 3: to us, we will necessarily even have to engage. But
Speaker 3: we don't have a thousand people sending us messages like
Speaker 3: Trump is your president and all this. I'm like, what
Speaker 3: do y'all think? I just want to ask those people
Speaker 3: so much, like who do you think you're owning in
Speaker 3: this situation? Because it's not me?
Speaker 2: And I mean, why are you here?
Speaker 1: Like the one star reviews on podcast that just say Trump.
Speaker 1: I'm like, but you're spending your time finding out that
Speaker 1: I have a podcast, going to it, reading it, and
Speaker 1: just writing Trump like who won?
Speaker 2: Here? I'm living in your brain, like just go enjoy
Speaker 2: the shit, Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't enjoy that's your mans Go hey, go celebrate him,
Speaker 3: Like I stop with you.
Speaker 1: I agree with you that I was wrapped with attention
Speaker 1: the entire last four years, feeling like I needed to
Speaker 1: understand and know every single detail, out of fear, out
Speaker 1: of curiosity, out of hoping that we would come to
Speaker 1: our senses at various points throughout And now that it
Speaker 1: has happened again with intention and the knowledge of what
Speaker 1: happened last time, I just don't need to know every
Speaker 1: single thing. I need to stay alert, I need to
Speaker 1: stay informed. I don't need to watch this shit I
Speaker 1: will not miss Carrie Underwood.
Speaker 2: My favorite meme from that.
Speaker 1: Has been the meme that was basically like, so to summarize,
Speaker 1: if he cheats Carrie underwe it will take a baseball
Speaker 1: back to his car. But if he cheats and rapes,
Speaker 1: then she will sing at his inauguration. So yeah, that
Speaker 1: about sums it up. So we won't be missing much
Speaker 1: on Monday, but we will have to pay attention over
Speaker 1: the next four years because we're all wondering and worrying
Speaker 1: about what another Trump administration will do to everything. But
Speaker 1: for the sake of this discussion investment and support for
Speaker 1: women's sports, there are minor things like extending White House
Speaker 1: invites to winning women's teams, to major things like Trump
Speaker 1: wanting to dismantle the Department of Education, which enforces Title nine.
Speaker 1: What are your concerns about the next four years when
Speaker 1: it comes to stunting this incredible growth that we've seen
Speaker 1: over the last couple of years for women's sports.
Speaker 3: My biggest concern in general and is that there's no
Speaker 3: guardrails because everything all his worst instincts. There's nobody to say,
Speaker 3: you know what you probably shouldn't right. There's there was
Speaker 3: at least one person in the room to do that
Speaker 3: before because they he had people in there who'd actually
Speaker 3: had experience in government. But see now it's different. They're
Speaker 3: people who sole purpose is to make sure his worst
Speaker 3: fantasies come true. And so as it relates to women's sports,
Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of people understood that the
Speaker 3: Department of Education is an enforcement office. Okay, and a
Speaker 3: lot of the issues because I see it all the
Speaker 3: time on social media, people are like cheering it on,
Speaker 3: destroy the Department of Education because those people don't realize
Speaker 3: the states already run your education. Okay, they already do,
Speaker 3: so this whole idea of giving it back to the states,
Speaker 3: like the state born of education. They're in charge of
Speaker 3: your curriculum, They're in charge of all those issues that
Speaker 3: you have. And as someone who's a public school kid,
Speaker 3: I am heartbroken about this because the assault on public
Speaker 3: education is real and this will have a very real
Speaker 3: It already has had a real impact in sports the
Speaker 3: way they tried to dismantle public education. Because notice now
Speaker 3: when you look at where the top high school prospects
Speaker 3: are coming from, Notice the schools they're coming from. It's
Speaker 3: like they're not coming from a lot of the public
Speaker 3: schools anymore. They're coming from academies, they're coming from private schools.
Speaker 3: And that is always the plan is to take the
Speaker 3: best and the talented, weed them out, put them in
Speaker 3: specialized situations, and leave behind everybody else.
Speaker 2: You don't want.
Speaker 3: That is the entire idea. Now when it comes to
Speaker 3: women's sports, obviously we know this there is that the
Speaker 3: number one focus of this administration is to bans, to
Speaker 3: ban trans athletes. This number one, like, no, let me
Speaker 3: be more specific, to ban trans women because they ain't
Speaker 3: saying shit about transmen ever, right, like never as part
Speaker 3: of the conversation. Right, So it's all about trans women.
Speaker 3: And so all of these people who hate women's sports,
Speaker 3: because frankly, that's who's driving a lot of this, they're
Speaker 3: going to use that to change the language and saying
Speaker 3: they're protecting women's sports because I guarantee you what, it
Speaker 3: won't be a single piece of legislation about supporting and
Speaker 3: infesting in women's sports that ever crosses across this because
Speaker 3: it's about targeting one single group, one single group, demonizing them.
Speaker 3: Even though there's what I think the NCAA president Charlie
Speaker 3: Baker said, there's trans women who are competing in sports.
Speaker 3: In college sports, there's five hundred thousand athletes. College athletes,
Speaker 3: there's ten all right, And that doesn't mean just because
Speaker 3: the low numbers that they deserve to be dehumanized. That's
Speaker 3: not what they're saying. But it's saying is that they've
Speaker 3: literally brought a missile to a fight that nobody like,
Speaker 3: why what are we doing? So my concern is that
Speaker 3: my concern, especially with Title nine, is enforcement of sexual assault.
Speaker 3: That is a huge concern. We got a preview of
Speaker 3: this with Betsy DeVos when she was Secretary of Education.
Speaker 3: There was actually she revamped all of the Obama era
Speaker 3: protections that afforded accusers certain rights, certain privacies. She changed
Speaker 3: all that shit and in fact made it so that
Speaker 3: those who were accused of sexual assault could interview their
Speaker 3: accuser in person, right, and so all that's coming back.
Speaker 3: So for women who are on college campuses right now,
Speaker 3: where we know there's rampant issues with rape and sexual assault,
Speaker 3: all of those protections will be gone, a lot of them.
Speaker 3: I think they have focused on making things. They call
Speaker 3: it making things more balanced. What they mean is tilting
Speaker 3: things in favor of those who are accused of sexual
Speaker 3: assault and rape. So I expect all of these things
Speaker 3: to happen under this administration because there's really nothing to
Speaker 3: stop them. I think they're going to take all the
Speaker 3: teeth out of Title nine. As it is, so many
Speaker 3: athletic departments are not in compliance. It's like over eighty
Speaker 3: percent are not in compliance with Title nine. Title nine
Speaker 3: as it was. If anything, what they needed was actually
Speaker 3: more compliance on enforcement. Yeah, they need a more enforcement
Speaker 3: and they don't have it because they've never actually taken
Speaker 3: away any anything from an athletic department because they were
Speaker 3: out of out of concert with Title nine. They've never
Speaker 3: done it. So it's like, you know, it's nice.
Speaker 1: Didn't have a lot of teeth to begin with, and
Speaker 1: now so we'll probably have lesson.
Speaker 2: For those who don't know, Title nine is an education law.
Speaker 1: It is preventing you from you know, losing access or
Speaker 1: opportunity as a result of a variety of things, which
Speaker 1: can include sexual assault or you know, not having access
Speaker 1: to sport, all this other stuff. It often gets talked
Speaker 1: about in sports context, but it's really about the protection
Speaker 1: of education for gender.
Speaker 2: We got to take a quick break. When we come back.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the rollback of DEI initiatives.
Speaker 1: I want to talk about your new projects, a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff. We're going to come back with Jamel Hill
Speaker 1: after the short break. We're back with Jamal Hill. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about this rapid unraveling of DEI initiatives
Speaker 1: and promises from sports leagues and sponsors and companies and universities,
Speaker 1: mainly in the sports space. It felt like we were
Speaker 1: making strides during America's twenty twenty racial reckoning. What's your
Speaker 1: reaction to this very quick reversal of policy and attention.
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm not surprised at all. And I said in
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty when all the black squares is growing up,
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, it's really easy to do
Speaker 3: it when it's popular, when everybody else is like, yeah,
Speaker 3: we need to do this, we need to do this.
Speaker 3: How I judge you is what you do when it's unpopular.
Speaker 3: It's what you do when you have to fight. Anytime
Speaker 3: that you are in the business of fighting for people
Speaker 3: who are in marginalized communities, be it women of color,
Speaker 3: be it black people, be it those in the queer community.
Speaker 3: Anytime you're in that fight, the fight doesn't start until
Speaker 3: somebody hates it, until it's not popular. And so all
Speaker 3: these companies, I think they're a joke because like that,
Speaker 3: let me know that it was never real, Like you
Speaker 3: only did it because the shit looked good. You need
Speaker 3: to do it because you actually believed in it, because
Speaker 3: if you believed in it, you be like Costco, which
Speaker 3: is sticking to their DEI initiative. Right. Shout out to Costco,
Speaker 3: please don't love a goud bring it back. Those bisc
Speaker 3: off ice cream sandwiches. I need to get some because
Speaker 3: they're never they're never in stock Costco. Damn it.
Speaker 1: Can I tell you something then? Can we still be friends?
Speaker 1: I've never been to Costco.
Speaker 3: I mean I get to go, like I need to go.
Speaker 3: Do you okay? At the very you need to go
Speaker 3: for the for the pizza which is bomb and which
Speaker 3: are amazing.
Speaker 1: Well vegetarian who mostly eats vegetables, which is why I
Speaker 1: don't go to Costco, cause vegetables in bulk because then.
Speaker 2: They go back.
Speaker 3: You can't.
Speaker 2: But I've heard, you know, I could get some toilet paper,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: But I was gonna say, if you if you think
Speaker 3: about you know, COVID and the doomsday scenarios right, Like
Speaker 3: if you want to make sure you have toilet paper
Speaker 3: for an entire year, there you go, right, Or you
Speaker 3: have life salt wipes for six months.
Speaker 2: I'm going to find a way to make my virgin voyage.
Speaker 3: You have to go to castuff. It is, it's part
Speaker 3: of it. And it oh, especially if you're somebody who
Speaker 3: entertains at your house. You could get bulk liquor bulk
Speaker 3: liqu there very important.
Speaker 2: Now we're talking about language, see.
Speaker 3: What I'm saying. So you know, when you look at
Speaker 3: the history again, history our greatest teacher. When you look
Speaker 3: at what happened within the Nazi regime, so many people
Speaker 3: ask like why did so many people go along with it?
Speaker 3: How did they not fight? It's because it was death
Speaker 3: by a thousand paper cuts. That's why it's little things.
Speaker 3: A lot of people the knee before they were asked
Speaker 3: to ben the knee. And that's exactly what's happening.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: You see people going to meet with Trump sadding they
Speaker 3: want to make them happy. You see all this capitulation
Speaker 3: he's never even asked for, right, and you're doing it
Speaker 3: in fear of trying to protect your own pocket and
Speaker 3: what you're gonna do is wind up. It's gonna wind
Speaker 3: up having a historically bad effect. History will not look
Speaker 3: kindly on this moment. But people don't care about it
Speaker 3: in the moment. They just care about what's in front
Speaker 3: of them. So anyway, what I say to that is
Speaker 3: a lot of people that started to use d I
Speaker 3: much like woke as they're you know, three simple words
Speaker 3: that they can understand is the DEI was never about that.
Speaker 3: It was about giving people who were never in the
Speaker 3: room or never considered, an opportunity to be considered. That
Speaker 3: didn't mean they were less stand that didn't mean that
Speaker 3: they were not qualified. That's all it was ever about.
Speaker 3: And to see that narrative hijacked and also by the way,
Speaker 3: to be for it to be hijacked at a moment
Speaker 3: where you're gonna have a cabinet that's gonna be confirmed,
Speaker 3: that could be one of the most idiotic we've ever seen.
Speaker 3: And so let me get this straight. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: uh Lenna McMahon who has like literally no experience of
Speaker 3: education at all, that's.
Speaker 1: Not they But like, OK, like we need a word
Speaker 1: for other than just like nepotism or white privilege or
Speaker 1: I don't know, like country club conversations. We need a
Speaker 1: word for like the equivalent that they try to weaponize DEI,
Speaker 1: but for like just dumb shit people getting jobs that
Speaker 1: they don't deserve because of who they know. Correct, we
Speaker 1: need like it's the same kind of catchphrase that's easy
Speaker 1: to throw around because we should be using it at
Speaker 1: every single person that he's trying to appoint right now.
Speaker 3: None of them are quality as you literally could. I'm
Speaker 3: just like, nobody's qualified to do any of these jobs.
Speaker 3: But all right, went in doubt, blame the black people,
Speaker 3: I got it right, So so yeah, no, it makes
Speaker 3: me very disappointed in a lot of companies who frankly
Speaker 3: have the authority and the positioning to do better and
Speaker 3: they're not.
Speaker 1: And the power and the power and the research that
Speaker 1: says that companies that have more diverse boards tend to
Speaker 1: be more effective, more profitable, that having people with different
Speaker 1: lived experiences and perspectives and everything benefits your companies. It's
Speaker 1: just so frustrating that even when you have the numbers,
Speaker 1: you still push back.
Speaker 3: You still do what you do, and so like, I
Speaker 3: so it it. Unfortunately, I've just lived through too many
Speaker 3: of these moments, and so that's why the next time,
Speaker 3: because another moment will come for sure, and it's gonna
Speaker 3: happen within these four years where all of that is
Speaker 3: going to suddenly be under examination again and something's gonna happen,
Speaker 3: and it's going to trigger people being like, oh, we
Speaker 3: need to care about these marginalized groups that we should
Speaker 3: on on the way in. It's gonna happen again, and
Speaker 3: to the same point, I'm gonna I'm gonna bring it
Speaker 3: up again and say if this is just flee to
Speaker 3: the moment, you could save that shit, honestly, keep it
Speaker 3: like I've just ye next time, and unfortunately, there will
Speaker 3: be a next time that there's a George Floorda, some calamity,
Speaker 3: some catastrophe that happens. Keep that shit. I don't want
Speaker 3: to hear anything about your diverse initiatives, none of that.
Speaker 1: Keep yeah, but congrats to the author of white fragility,
Speaker 1: who will get another huge bump whenever that.
Speaker 2: Happens from all those things.
Speaker 1: I want to just say that this sounds very hopeless.
Speaker 1: The hope will kill you, but it's also necessary. You
Speaker 1: can't just lay down and say, Okay, it's going to
Speaker 1: keep happening.
Speaker 2: We're not going to make progress.
Speaker 1: The progress does happen, and it's baby steps that then
Speaker 1: the next time you pick it back up, we've started
Speaker 1: from a better place. But it is hard, and it's
Speaker 1: hard to have the same shit come back for people
Speaker 1: of color, for women, for all these marginalized groups where
Speaker 1: it feels like you make progress and in the end,
Speaker 1: that same deeply held racism is at the root or
Speaker 1: misogyny is at the root of the most powerful people
Speaker 1: in spaces.
Speaker 2: It's incredibly frustrating.
Speaker 1: Let's pivot briefly because I want to talk about your
Speaker 1: new projects really quick. You've got this new show for
Speaker 1: TNT sports Evening lineup.
Speaker 2: How and where can people watch it?
Speaker 1: And what are you hoping to add to the space
Speaker 1: with this above the fold show.
Speaker 3: Well, the whole point of it was to kind of
Speaker 3: have a bit of a return to the things that
Speaker 3: we love about sports, right because sometimes in our jobs
Speaker 3: they get so weighed down by so many things that
Speaker 3: we forget about what is it that what is that
Speaker 3: love that we have for in the beginning, Like, what
Speaker 3: is it that draws us to it? And it's like
Speaker 3: incredible stories about perseverance, about grid, about determination, and so
Speaker 3: you know a lot of the longer form pieces that
Speaker 3: we've done have been about those people who are doing that,
Speaker 3: who have used sports as a way to better their lives,
Speaker 3: use sports as a way to get out of some darkness,
Speaker 3: and frankly, you know, like we did we've done fans
Speaker 3: spotlights about fans who are like super fans of teams
Speaker 3: and like how they live their lives, and it's been
Speaker 3: to me. I just wanted it to be something just
Speaker 3: a little bit more encouraging in the sports space. And
Speaker 3: then also to have you know, a word that is
Speaker 3: greatly lost in our stupid time, which is nuance to
Speaker 3: have conversations about sports that aren't always about who is
Speaker 3: the villain, who's the hero, but maybe it's a little
Speaker 3: bit of both. Maybe it's something that's in between. Uh,
Speaker 3: And to have you know, we did a whole episode
Speaker 3: dedicated to women's sports, which was great. That's something like
Speaker 3: I never could have imagined doing, you know, when I
Speaker 3: first starded sort of covering and being interested in women's sports.
Speaker 3: And also we wanted to have different voices like of course,
Speaker 3: like we know, you know, we know about the Sara space,
Speaker 3: but who's the next Sara Spain that we may not
Speaker 3: know about uh that deserves a platform yet you're still
Speaker 3: jump no, sh Sara Spain is still out there, but
Speaker 3: there are others who aspire to become a Sarah Spain
Speaker 3: and having a space you know for them. It reminded
Speaker 3: me very much as you know all too well of
Speaker 3: when we had His and Hers. There always had to
Speaker 3: be a hers, right, and so in this space, I
Speaker 3: wanted to create something similar, but just for a multitude
Speaker 3: of different voices that maybe nationally didn't have the same
Speaker 3: profile that I have or you have the people who
Speaker 3: kind of deserve that kind of push and end bump
Speaker 3: and so so yeah, that was that was the kind
Speaker 3: of the genesis behind, you know, above the fold and
Speaker 3: so and then just for me personally, just as someone
Speaker 3: who has been in doing broadcasting you know now for
Speaker 3: a while, just to sort of get back out there,
Speaker 3: I just kind of do it regularly because I've sort
Speaker 3: of in and out and really been very precious about
Speaker 3: how I want to spend my broadcasting time. So it
Speaker 3: was a way for me to get back in it
Speaker 3: in the thick of it. And I mean the people
Speaker 3: that Spring, Galt and Seed have been amazing and so yeah,
Speaker 3: like it's been great I love.
Speaker 1: That the mentorship angle is there for that show as well,
Speaker 1: because you mentioned that some people might not understand when
Speaker 1: you had His and Hers because there was a hers
Speaker 1: when you were out. That meant that another woman was
Speaker 1: coming and taking that place at a time when it
Speaker 1: was rare for women to get these opportunities to be
Speaker 1: opinionists and to be on shows like that. So folks
Speaker 1: like me and Kate Fagan and others got that opportunity
Speaker 1: with intention from you. And that's why I call you
Speaker 1: my career fairy godmother, because you spotted me from not
Speaker 1: getting any TV time and said you should be on TV.
Speaker 1: Gave me that opportunity and it completely changed my career,
Speaker 1: and I love that you're doing that again in a
Speaker 1: new place. That's such a part of who you are
Speaker 1: in your in your career, and everybody should take a
Speaker 1: lesson from that.
Speaker 2: No one is coming to steal your shit. Lift them up.
Speaker 1: There's enough room for all of us and bring them
Speaker 1: with you. Okay, let's talk about spolitics. This is the
Speaker 1: weekly podcast that you launched in October. I love the
Speaker 1: first episode. Our good friend Dan Levettard or former colleague
Speaker 1: at ESPN. You both talked about not being able to
Speaker 1: stick to sports and not wanting to. And now you
Speaker 1: have a whole show literally called spolitics where they are
Speaker 1: indistinguishable from each other.
Speaker 2: Tell me about the show.
Speaker 3: So it's what the name suggested, is sports and politics,
Speaker 3: the two things they say should never makes, but always makes.
Speaker 3: And I just wanted a space in and a lane
Speaker 3: for that to do exactly that. You know what it is.
Speaker 3: So you can't download this podcast and say why are
Speaker 3: you talking about politics? I literally told you in they
Speaker 3: not what? Okay? So you you chose this violence, not me,
Speaker 3: right so so, but I also realized too in doing
Speaker 3: it that it's a great lane to explain things like
Speaker 3: the current episode that's out now, it's about how how
Speaker 3: the NCDUBLEA became so powerful and one of the big
Speaker 3: court cases that the NCAA has to resolve as they
Speaker 3: must do this, they have this two billion dollar settlement
Speaker 3: that they have to adhere to that the final arbitration
Speaker 3: is in April. That essentially will bring a level of
Speaker 3: collective bargaining to college sports for the first time in
Speaker 3: history because every team is essentially going to be they
Speaker 3: have a salary cap, right, They're going to have twenty
Speaker 3: million dollars or whatever that they can spend and that
Speaker 3: they have to decide how they're going to divvy up
Speaker 3: among their sports teams. But right now athletes are fighting
Speaker 3: for the right to be classified as employees. What people
Speaker 3: don't know, and this is what is in this current
Speaker 3: episode as politics, is that the argument that the NCAA
Speaker 3: is using to avoid athletes being considered employees is the
Speaker 3: slavery exception. And no, I did not make that up. Yes,
Speaker 3: they are using the thirteenth Amendment, which banned slavery, but
Speaker 3: there's an exception in that that if you have a
Speaker 3: job that is considered too critical, you could be enslaved.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is two on the nose for the history
Speaker 1: of the NCAA not paying all predominantly black athletes that
Speaker 1: are driving money for everyone but themselves.
Speaker 3: Like it's too on the nose, It is true.
Speaker 2: It is why I got to listen to that episode.
Speaker 3: Now it's we have the lead co council who is
Speaker 3: representing the athletes in this case, Paul McDonell, and he
Speaker 3: explains how they're using the slavery exception to be able
Speaker 3: to do it. So, you know, just for people who
Speaker 3: don't know, and I highly recommend. There's a documentary abd
Speaker 3: Duverna did it called The Thirteen, which is amazing, and
Speaker 3: it's about the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, about how they bann slavery,
Speaker 3: but not really. And so for people who don't know
Speaker 3: this Victoria's secrets, I believe it's Macy's. A number of
Speaker 3: businesses they use prisoners to package your items, and they
Speaker 3: are able to pay them like a dollar an hour,
Speaker 3: sometimes less than that to do this because it's considered
Speaker 3: critical to you.
Speaker 2: Know, sort of manufacturer.
Speaker 3: They're able to get away with it because of the
Speaker 3: slavery exception.
Speaker 2: And this is the firefighters in La.
Speaker 1: This is the This is firefighters in LA that are
Speaker 1: making roughly two dollars an hour to go in choose
Speaker 1: these horrific, terrifying spaces to fight these fires on behalf
Speaker 1: of free people for less than what they should make.
Speaker 3: It comes from they would like to use college athletes
Speaker 3: in the same manner saying, hey, we don't have to
Speaker 3: have any they don't have to have any employed protection
Speaker 3: because what they do is considered so vital to our
Speaker 3: business that we can't possibly pay them like employees. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: So anyway, what a country we're in Wow.
Speaker 3: Oh and by the way, I should I should have
Speaker 3: mentioned this too, real quid Sarah with the firefighters. So
Speaker 3: this year on the ballot in California, there was something
Speaker 3: to ban slavery, right, like ban that type of slavery
Speaker 3: in California, and it failed and it failed. So there's
Speaker 3: that pro slavery.
Speaker 2: Well, this episode was supposed to make me feel better.
Speaker 2: It okay, we've kept you too long. I do have
Speaker 2: one last question for you.
Speaker 1: I don't think the answer will be positive, but let's
Speaker 1: just get it out there anyway, because I do want
Speaker 1: to ask you this. I am noticing more and more
Speaker 1: in both political media and sports media there's an approach
Speaker 1: from the right that isn't met by the left. It's
Speaker 1: this toxicity and anger, its attacks from the likes of
Speaker 1: folks like OutKick and Barstool and Jason Whitlock, abandoning all
Speaker 1: journalistic principles, a willingness to really give personal shots, share
Speaker 1: false information to inflame viewers and listeners, embrace misogyny and
Speaker 1: racism and homophobia. Nothing is off the table when it
Speaker 1: comes to getting people to quote unquote your side. I
Speaker 1: do not want to embrace any of those things. In
Speaker 1: pursuit of more influence or to get the upper hand.
Speaker 1: But I also recognize that there's a tremendous power, particularly
Speaker 1: in the tribalism of those spaces. They're creating communities, They're
Speaker 1: giving people identities as part of their audience of supporters.
Speaker 1: They're like almost indoctrinating them. Now Here, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: create this community, a good game that's around positivity and support,
Speaker 1: an inclusion and you know, criticism when it's fair, but
Speaker 1: mostly the joy of sports and coming together. It is
Speaker 1: harder to that because we know that negativity and anger
Speaker 1: spur more engagement. So does our desire to maintain integrity
Speaker 1: and tolerance make us fully unprepared for this current information
Speaker 1: and attention war. Do we have to change our habits
Speaker 1: even if we don't want to?
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. And then some of it, too,
Speaker 3: is personal. It's all about what can you live with?
Speaker 3: And there's just certain things I can't listen. It's days,
Speaker 3: especially when I see how how much money some of
Speaker 3: these people are making, when I'm like, why God did
Speaker 3: you bless me with integrity? Why can you no shit
Speaker 3: of it?
Speaker 2: Know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I was like, why can't I have a little less
Speaker 3: respect for myself?
Speaker 2: Huh, why can't I do this?
Speaker 3: I've often thought about this, like, man, I wish I
Speaker 3: just had less self respect. But I have got to
Speaker 3: believe that people who do things with integrity, even if
Speaker 3: you're not always perfect, that's not what that means. That
Speaker 3: people who believe in moving in our business a certain
Speaker 3: way will be rewarded. I have to believe in this
Speaker 3: because unfortunately, we do see people all the time across
Speaker 3: our business who are rewarded for being the shittiest human
Speaker 3: beings they possibly can be. But I've got to believe
Speaker 3: that that is not that having integrity, having respect, being
Speaker 3: intentional about inclusion and the type of community that you're
Speaker 3: trying to build, while it is in some ways less
Speaker 3: financially rewarding or you know, less attention rewarding, I've got
Speaker 3: to believe that at the end of the day that
Speaker 3: you will get your pot of gold, and that pot
Speaker 3: of goal will be even things that matter to you.
Speaker 3: It doesn't necessarily have to be money, it doesn't have
Speaker 3: to be fame, and doesn't have to be those things.
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, you're leaving a
Speaker 3: mark and leaving another blueprint for somebody else who wants
Speaker 3: to come along and do the same thing, and they
Speaker 3: know through you it's possible. You got to leave people
Speaker 3: a blueprint to know what's possible. If you don't, they
Speaker 3: we're all kind of fucked right. Like, the only reason
Speaker 3: I'm doing what I do is because other people have
Speaker 3: shown me it's possible, and they didn't show me that.
Speaker 3: God be screwed. So there's sort of the silver lining
Speaker 3: that we have to cling to that it's not about us.
Speaker 3: It's about us trying to make things better in our
Speaker 3: profession than when we first got here. And I like
Speaker 3: to think that they are you didn't exist when you
Speaker 3: got here, but now you do exist, and now someone
Speaker 3: else that is you or better than you can exist
Speaker 3: after that. And so you've got to be in it
Speaker 3: for that. Like I'm not in it for me. I'm
Speaker 3: in it for all the people coming behind me, because
Speaker 3: otherwise what am I doing this for. I had a
Speaker 3: conversation with Jane Kennedy at the Essence Black Woman in
Speaker 3: Hollywood Brunch, and Jane Kennedy is a pioneer in our business.
Speaker 3: She was like the first black woman basically to get
Speaker 3: a national platform being on NFL today, her broadcasting career
Speaker 3: got talk about misinformation, got completely ruined, and I need
Speaker 3: people to buy her memoir, which is actually coming out
Speaker 3: this month. I do a blurb for it because it's
Speaker 3: really crazy how her broadcast career got ruined at any rate.
Speaker 3: I say all that to say is that I would
Speaker 3: be making Jane Kennedy's fight not worth it if I quit,
Speaker 3: if I didn't do the things and do the things
Speaker 3: the way I do them now. And so you never
Speaker 3: want the people that came ahead of you to think
Speaker 3: that what they did had no purpose, and you don't
Speaker 3: want the people to be mind you to not have
Speaker 3: a blueprint to do what you do. So that's why
Speaker 3: you're doing this there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I have to say it sounds pollyannish, but
Speaker 1: like the thing that's coming to me that you mentioned
Speaker 1: is already here, because every day I'm very joyful and
Speaker 1: happy in the work I do. And I can't imagine
Speaker 1: what it feels like to be someone who traffics in
Speaker 1: other people's sadness, in mocking people, in attacking people, and
Speaker 1: trying to send your trolls out to attack people like
Speaker 1: the everyday just like mindset of those people must be tragic.
Speaker 2: It's constantly adversarial.
Speaker 1: So I think the joy also comes in the feeling
Speaker 1: of what you're doing, being good every single day, even
Speaker 1: if there is no real, true pot of gold at
Speaker 1: the end. And I think that's kind of a microcosm
Speaker 1: for what we have to do over the next four years. Again,
Speaker 1: I keep saying it, but just make our little corner
Speaker 1: of the world, the people that we influence, the people
Speaker 1: that we know, the people that we interact with, happier
Speaker 1: and stronger and better. While the people above in the
Speaker 1: biggest and highest places might not be doing what we want,
Speaker 1: we can at least try to make as much change
Speaker 1: as possible in the smaller spaces.
Speaker 2: That's really all we can do.
Speaker 1: Jamel, I just took forty eight minutes of your time
Speaker 1: in Bora Bora. You are truly a queen and I
Speaker 1: love you so much and thank you so much for
Speaker 1: coming on.
Speaker 3: No, I appreciate being on and having this conversation.
Speaker 2: This is good for me.
Speaker 3: It's good for me to understand and to constantly be
Speaker 3: mindful of, like why I'm in this business and why
Speaker 3: I do what I do. And I want to bring
Speaker 3: that same joy that you talked about I will now
Speaker 3: tell my kidnapper that I am free to be held
Speaker 3: hostage in this cabana and uh my ties are coming. Yes,
Speaker 3: that's right, my kidnappers. What can I say? I'm gonna
Speaker 3: have Stockholm syndrome after this. It's right.
Speaker 2: I caught a glimpse on me. Looks hot. What's up one?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I won't tell him? You Sam, what's up? All right? Sick?
Speaker 3: Thank you?
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Jamal for taking the time. We got
Speaker 1: to take another quick break stick around slices.
Speaker 2: Welcome back.
Speaker 1: I just want to say one more big thank you
Speaker 1: to Jamel for taking the time to talk to us,
Speaker 1: especially all the way from Bora, Bora on vacation. I
Speaker 1: hope we can all cling to the hope that you
Speaker 1: provided and the very important reminder that every little bit we.
Speaker 2: Do moves us forward.
Speaker 1: I remember President Obama when asked how painful it was
Speaker 1: to watch Donald Trump roll back policies and initiatives that
Speaker 1: he'd worked painstakingly on, he said, the thing to remember
Speaker 1: is that progress moves us forward. So even when others
Speaker 1: try to send us backward, they're still starting from a
Speaker 1: place far ahead of where we were when the work began.
Speaker 1: So yes, we'll have some cleaning up to do and
Speaker 1: fighting to do and progress to restore, but our work
Speaker 1: in our little corners and neighborhoods and communities can help
Speaker 1: make sure that we're starting further ahead, pushing further ahead,
Speaker 1: and making efforts to dismantle progress tougher every time someone tries.
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want to get
Speaker 1: you in the game every day too, So here's our
Speaker 1: good game play of the day. Spend a little more
Speaker 1: time with Jamel, whether that's diving into her fantastic memoir, Uphill,
Speaker 1: tuning into Above the Fold, or listening to a episodes
Speaker 1: of Spolitics. We'll link to all three of those in
Speaker 1: the show notes. And we always love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: To hit us up on email, Good Game at wondermedianetwork
Speaker 1: dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven
Speaker 1: two two o four fifty seventy. We love to hear
Speaker 1: your voices. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Jamel,
Speaker 1: Good Game, Bora, Bora you corporations that just sign on
Speaker 1: when it's good for business. Good Game with Sarah Spain
Speaker 1: is an iheartwomen's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue
Speaker 1: Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network. Our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez,
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cradowell.
Speaker 2: Production assistant from Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah
Speaker 2: Spain