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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're eating

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Speaker 1: ice cream for breakfast, doing our most intense rage burning workout,

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Speaker 1: mobilizing to support the most vulnerable among us, and doing

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Speaker 1: whatever the hell else we need to do to make

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Speaker 1: it through today's inauguration. It's Monday, January twentieth, and on

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Speaker 1: today's show, we'll be talking to writer, author, podcast host,

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Speaker 1: and my personal career fairy godmother Jamel Hill about the

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Speaker 1: dumpster fire ahead, how a second Trump presidency could impact

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Speaker 1: the women's sports landscape, and how to hold space when

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Speaker 1: things get bleak.

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Speaker 2: That conversation with Jamal is coming up right after this

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Speaker 2: joining us.

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Speaker 1: She's a staff writer for the Atlantic, co founder of

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Speaker 1: Lodge Freeway Media, author of the memoir Uphill, host of

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Speaker 1: the new iHeart podcasts, politics, and host and executive producer

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Speaker 1: of the new sports magazine style show Above the Fold

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Speaker 1: on True TV. I was present for her first date

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Speaker 1: with her now husband. The pins we put in our

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Speaker 1: imaginary voodoo dolls are intended for the same person. She's

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Speaker 1: my career fairy godmother and one of my all time faves,

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Speaker 1: and she's with us from Bora Bora.

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Speaker 2: It's Jamel Hill. What's up, Jamel?

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Speaker 3: Everything is good. I mean, obviously I'm in Bora, Bora,

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Speaker 3: and I guess if you see the video of this, no,

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Speaker 3: I have not been kidnapped and put in a beach sheck.

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Speaker 3: So if everybody's wondered, like, what is the bamboo that

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Speaker 3: is behind you? That is? That is why. So yeah,

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Speaker 3: you're the celebrate a friend's birthday, but always always happy

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Speaker 3: to take time for you.

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it. I like how you went to kidnapped.

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Speaker 1: I was like, you look like in your cabana having

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Speaker 1: a fruity drink. So I went positive on the visual

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Speaker 1: for that one. You have been a mentor to me,

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Speaker 1: an inspiration and example a friend. I'm so glad you're

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Speaker 1: here today because we're recording this a few days ahead

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Speaker 1: of Monday, which we're bracing ourselves for. It's going to

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Speaker 1: be a tough day for a lot of us, and

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Speaker 1: I think we'll really benefit from hearing your wisdom and

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Speaker 1: your insight, your sense of humor, your ability to balance

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Speaker 1: all things in life as we steal ourselves for what's

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Speaker 1: to come. Before we get to that, I do want

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Speaker 1: to ask you about how you and your friends and

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Speaker 1: your house and everything are doing in LA.

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Speaker 3: So you know, it is a very harrowing time, even

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Speaker 3: though obviously right now I'm not in LA, but I've

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Speaker 3: just been gone for a few days. And it's hard

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Speaker 3: to describe to people the level of anxiety because even

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Speaker 3: if you don't live in an area that has been

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Speaker 3: directly impacted, it's hard not to imagine all these doomsday

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Speaker 3: scenarios where you will be directly in that situation. You know,

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Speaker 3: we live in an area. We're right on top of

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Speaker 3: Englewood and so we're very close to the airport. But

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Speaker 3: the heroing part for us is that we live right

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Speaker 3: by a state recreation area and also a huge oil field.

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Speaker 3: And there was a fire that was put out as

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Speaker 3: the other fires were ranging that was less than five

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Speaker 3: miles from a house. It's probably three miles that would

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Speaker 3: probably be our guests. Thankfully the fire department, God blessed them.

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Speaker 3: They put this out. They got on it quick, a

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Speaker 3: transformer blue. So far as we know, it was an arson,

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Speaker 3: but that could have been extremely bad given the conditions

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Speaker 3: of the wind conditions and everything else. But everybody I

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Speaker 3: know that lives in LA knows somebody who lost their home. Everyone,

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Speaker 3: And so that's how close it is to you. I

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Speaker 3: know people who've had to evacuate, I know people who've

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Speaker 3: lost their homes. So it's just really it's really a

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Speaker 3: dark time. And I can say what doesn't help is

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Speaker 3: that it actually it's made me more mindful and self aware,

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Speaker 3: because certainly I have been guilty of chiming in on

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Speaker 3: disasters that are happening in other parts of the country

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Speaker 3: because I see people affected, I see people who are

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Speaker 3: suffering or that kind of thing, and so you automatically

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Speaker 3: want to rush jump in and say like, hey, this

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Speaker 3: is messed up, Hey whatever, whatever. And while certainly everybody's

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Speaker 3: allowed their opinions, I'm not saying that, but the level

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Speaker 3: of criticism and frankly you feel it is like the

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Speaker 3: level of hatred being directed at LA is crazy. I

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Speaker 3: need people to understand. And this is not to say

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Speaker 3: that they are just di biding their homes being lost either.

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Speaker 3: If you're a celebrity and lost their house, those are

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Speaker 3: your things, those are your possessions. You're a human being,

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Speaker 3: so I feel for them as well. But because the

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Speaker 3: narrative that only celebrities are losing their homes has been

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Speaker 3: the dominant narrative in the media. It has allowed you

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Speaker 3: see the disday that people have and there's like, who

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Speaker 3: gives about these rich people that lost their house? Let

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Speaker 3: me let me tell you the majority of people losing

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Speaker 3: their homes are not rich. They're not millionaires. There's beloved

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Speaker 3: communities Pasadena, Altadena, especially Altadena, this is a historically black

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Speaker 3: area where you have generations of black folks that have

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Speaker 3: been there that this was their American dream because a

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Speaker 3: lot of other places in Los Angeles. I know LA

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Speaker 3: has this sort of liberal narrative, but LA was just

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Speaker 3: as racist as a lot of cities in America, you know,

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Speaker 3: when it came to migration patterns, and there was a

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Speaker 3: lot of places that would not rent or or allow

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Speaker 3: black people to own homes. So this was an area

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Speaker 3: that a lot of black folks settled and it became

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Speaker 3: their American dream. And that place is destroyed. And so,

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Speaker 3: you know, people need to understand that it's not just

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Speaker 3: rich people losing things. And you know, people have this

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Speaker 3: whole idea of like Hollywood is as much love and

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Speaker 3: hatred for so feeling the hatred from certain parts of

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Speaker 3: the nation and certain people, and you know what I'm

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Speaker 3: talking about has been very tough to, it's been hard

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Speaker 3: because it just there's no empathy there for people, and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, man, this is kind of pocked up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the pain of all the loss and the fear,

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Speaker 1: combined with the hatred and the ridiculous idea that there

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Speaker 1: would be some sort of regulation on how much support

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Speaker 1: you would get based on whether you're agreeing with political

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Speaker 1: ideas as opposed to humanity coming through, and that's where

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Speaker 1: we send our help and our love, and also the

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Speaker 1: time it will take to rebuild. As someone who lived

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Speaker 1: in LA for six years, and I have lots of

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Speaker 1: friends who have been affected, including a few who lost

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Speaker 1: their homes, one who lost the rental home they were

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Speaker 1: in and the future home they were moving into, both

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Speaker 1: of them and all of the things they had. It

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Speaker 1: is a place that's full of all different kinds of

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Speaker 1: people and it's just going to take such a long

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Speaker 1: time and so many things are lost forever, and it's

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Speaker 1: really it's been really heartbreaking to watch. So I'm feeling

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Speaker 1: for you and feeling for all the people I know

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Speaker 1: out there, and it's part of what's been a very

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Speaker 1: inauspicious start to twenty twenty five from the violence in

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Speaker 1: New Orleans, to the fires in LA, to a different

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Speaker 1: kind of weather pattern in DC, which I'll just call

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Speaker 1: a shit storm. Is what we're seeing so far. We

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Speaker 1: are dealing with a lot. I always try to spend

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Speaker 1: things positive. I always try to find a way to

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Speaker 1: see the best in things. I'm trying not to presume

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Speaker 1: that this could potentially be the highest point of an

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Speaker 1: even deeper slide and we might just be facing these

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Speaker 1: things over and over again all year long.

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Speaker 2: But it's hard to be positive right now.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like you always seem to balance your

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Speaker 1: personal joy and your light inside with your coverage of

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Speaker 1: really tough topics.

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Speaker 2: Do you have any tips or tricks for people on

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Speaker 2: how you manage to do that?

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Speaker 3: The biggest thing I've clung to because all those emotions

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Speaker 3: you just expressed, I felt the same way after the election.

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Speaker 3: I was like everybody, that was my thought process, right.

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Speaker 3: I am like, yo, man, I can't keep doing this

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Speaker 3: to myself, right, And I think a lot of people

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Speaker 3: who just were I think mostly we were invested in

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Speaker 3: turning the page. It felt like, dog, we have an

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Speaker 3: opportunity to turn this horrible page and get this man

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Speaker 3: about our lives forever. Let's do that. Okay. You might

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Speaker 3: have your issues. You might be like, I don't like this.

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Speaker 3: Bigger picture is let's get this dude up out the

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Speaker 3: pay forever. We could argue about some shit later, all right,

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Speaker 3: All up, we can argue about it later, all right.

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Speaker 3: So that was sort of my main focus kind of

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Speaker 3: going into it, in addition to obviously the respect that

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Speaker 3: I have for the Vice president. Not perfect again, nobody,

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Speaker 3: no politisic is gonna be perfect. I can take imperfections,

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Speaker 3: but it's just a certain level of I don't know,

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Speaker 3: just integrity I just need in this job. So at

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Speaker 3: any rate, you know, I felt that way, and I

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Speaker 3: literally I wanted to check out and for a few weeks,

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Speaker 3: but I was just like, you know what, it just

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Speaker 3: it's gonna be what it's gonna be. I can't. I

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Speaker 3: can't get this invested only to feel this way, you know,

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Speaker 3: when it's all over. But then I remember something, and

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Speaker 3: this is when I had to check myself and re

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Speaker 3: direct my energy and understand. History is such a great teacher,

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Speaker 3: and we have to be mindful of the fact that

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Speaker 3: there are people who have faced really much more awful

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Speaker 3: circumstances than what we're looking at. Right now, it's bad,

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Speaker 3: Like I'm not gonna pretend that it isn't. But then

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Speaker 3: I think about all the people, all the women, all

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Speaker 3: the people of color, all the black women who before

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Speaker 3: I ever was a thought bubble, how they fought what

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Speaker 3: they were up against, and they didn't even get to

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Speaker 3: fight from the position I'm in. I'm fighting this from

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Speaker 3: the position of somebody who's a media personality, who's been

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Speaker 3: able to write a book, who's been able to do

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Speaker 3: all these great things. They weren't fighting from that position.

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Speaker 3: They didn't have shit, and they were still fighting and

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Speaker 3: invested every single time time, And so I felt like

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Speaker 3: I would be letting them down if I checked out.

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Speaker 3: I was like, I can't do that. Harry Tubman, did

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Speaker 3: she check out?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Check out?

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Speaker 3: Like she did not, And so I have to think

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Speaker 3: about it in those terms. And I know that seems

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Speaker 3: dramatic because obviously we're not still in slavery, But the

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Speaker 3: whole point is that, like if Harriet found a way,

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Speaker 3: if she can look at the North Star, what am

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Speaker 3: I doing? Right? So I think all needs to remember

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Speaker 3: that is that there were you know, women or you know,

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Speaker 3: even people that you admire in history that really fought

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Speaker 3: through some sludge, so we can preserve the fight today.

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Speaker 3: And we have to remember it's a consistent battle. An

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Speaker 3: election is not lost in an election, it's not one.

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Speaker 3: It's like every single step matters. And so that has

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Speaker 3: been my north star since I'm on some herriots. That

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Speaker 3: has been my north star throughout all of this is

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Speaker 3: just remembering the sacrifices that people have made, and even

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Speaker 3: the sacrifices of people that made in current times, not

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Speaker 3: just in the past. I have friends who are organizers.

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Speaker 3: Organizers are the most positive people I have ever met

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Speaker 3: in my life, and I love them dearly because they

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Speaker 3: find a way to keep going all the time despite

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Speaker 3: tremendous setbacks. As seeing their energy, that's what inspired me.

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Speaker 1: Organizers are the embodiment of this principle, this motto that

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Speaker 1: I hold. That's invincible summer, which is in the darkest

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Speaker 1: and coldest winters, I have within me an invincible summer.

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Speaker 1: And I feel like those people somehow hang on to

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Speaker 1: hope no matter what's around them. They still are like, no,

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Speaker 1: we can do this, no matter how many times they

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Speaker 1: get punched back.

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Speaker 2: I love what you just said.

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Speaker 1: It is so important to hang on to and remember,

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Speaker 1: and I do not want to ruin it, but I

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Speaker 1: do want to tell you we are living in such

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Speaker 1: a stupid time that a Hollywood executive suggested that Julia

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Speaker 1: Roberts should play Harriet Tubman in a biopic, and then

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Speaker 1: when they said Harriet Tubman was black, the person said,

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Speaker 1: it was so long ago, no one will know that.

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Speaker 1: I just want you to know that we are dealing

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Speaker 1: in unprecedented times when it comes to freaking stupidity. So

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Speaker 1: I love your Harriet Tubman example, and I also just

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Speaker 1: want to remind us.

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Speaker 2: Like, what the fuck are we doing? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Right, I mean, but I can't I can't excuse that

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Speaker 3: because I have seen that same story. Yeah, but you know,

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Speaker 3: and I'm not champing. I'm not saying she should have

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Speaker 3: done it, but I say, wow, Julie Roberts, I love

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Speaker 3: her man ranged until she got ranged. Man, It's like

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Speaker 3: she might have voted off. I don't know, Like, no,

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Speaker 3: if they can't mix that in a romantic comedy.

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Speaker 2: Type of way, yeah, Queen of the rom coms.

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Speaker 3: Runaway Bride would have taken on a totally different meeting.

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Speaker 3: That's all I know.

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Speaker 2: That is so true.

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Speaker 1: That is so true, and Honestly, Hugh Grant would make

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Speaker 1: a believable slave owner.

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Speaker 2: So throw him in there's something.

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Speaker 3: Run Away Bride but with slaves, and then see, I

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Speaker 3: can make that joke, Sarah can't.

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Speaker 2: That's that's right. I mean, you have a production company.

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Speaker 2: What are we waiting for.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm saying this this now that I know

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Speaker 3: that we're doing that in Hollywood, and it's funny you

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Speaker 3: should say that because I just saw that the President

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Speaker 3: elect has now created because you know, the Party of

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Speaker 3: Small Government loves to create more government, and so he's

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Speaker 3: created a a Hollywood liaison. Oh no, oh yes, with

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Speaker 3: three favorites, John Boyd, Sylvester Stallone, and mel Gibson. They

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Speaker 3: will be They will be the Hollywood envoy too, to

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Speaker 3: bring back I guess, apparently to bring life back to Hollywood.

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Speaker 3: So Donald Trump has appointed them to a made up office.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, probably to prevent Marvel and Disney from putting black

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Speaker 1: people in their movies.

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Speaker 2: That's probably the yes, so.

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Speaker 3: Fully expect that when they do. You know, the story

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Speaker 3: of Laura Zillhurston or the story like there's gonna be

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Speaker 3: some white women like yeah, it's just it's what it is.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, we'll be lucky if they do those stories at all,

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Speaker 1: even with white women.

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Speaker 3: So like, y'all really don't have to worry about black

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Speaker 3: people being in movies the next feur years. Like thankfully

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Speaker 3: Black Panther three has already been green lit, that's happening.

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Speaker 3: That might be the most Black people y'all see in

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Speaker 3: any movie the next four years.

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Speaker 1: And then maybe I don't know, Stacy dash big comeback

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Speaker 1: for her Now, I'm.

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Speaker 3: Somewhere happy right now, Like, yes, I knew it would

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Speaker 3: come back. I knew it would. But you know, sir,

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Speaker 3: it is hard to deny the fact that the level

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Speaker 3: of critical thinking is at a low point in this country,

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Speaker 3: and that's that's my design. But even even still, even still,

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Speaker 3: I'm going to cling to the fact that despite then

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Speaker 3: we are living in, we are living in the stupidest

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Speaker 3: time we could ever possibly imagine. I'm going to cling

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Speaker 3: to the fight that the will of the people, the

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Speaker 3: real will of the people, will be heard and throughout Again,

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Speaker 3: history has shown this throughout even darker times. And granted

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Speaker 3: they have ship like Twitter, they didn't have they didn't have.

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Speaker 2: That misinformation the same way.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, they didn't. They didn't have that, but I would.

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Speaker 3: I will say that I think there's something in us

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Speaker 3: that will allow for a fight to happen. And so

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Speaker 3: if this is what the wake up call that sometimes

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Speaker 3: that people need, they do need a wake up call

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Speaker 3: sometimes to like, hey man, you can't just sit every

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Speaker 3: you can't sit shit out like we have to pay

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Speaker 3: attention all the time and know who's minding the store.

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Speaker 3: So I'm hopeful that that will, that need for something

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Speaker 3: better will take over in this stupid moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does feel like a bit of a cruel

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Speaker 1: joke that Trump's inauguration will happen on Martin Luther King

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Speaker 1: Junior Day. What are your plans for Monday? Are you

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Speaker 1: ignoring it? Are you hate watching it? Are you watching

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Speaker 1: do to work commitments? What's what's Monday looking like?

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Speaker 3: So but in a way, though, Sarah, if you look

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Speaker 3: at history, it's actually pretty on brand that this would

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Speaker 3: happen on the observed day of Martin Luther King Junior's birthday,

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Speaker 3: like it is the story of this nation. To be honest,

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Speaker 3: is that you know, the hovering of white supremacy, the

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Speaker 3: ability for it to regenerate and reinvent has always been

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Speaker 3: a part of American history, and so we need in

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Speaker 3: some respects, we do need the reminder. We need the

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Speaker 3: reminder that, like, hey, everything we died he died for

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Speaker 3: we're still fighting for. Like we need that reminder to

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Speaker 3: bring it in the focus. But as for my personal plans, honestly,

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Speaker 3: I really hadn't. I have a lot of work to

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Speaker 3: do Monday, I'll be doing that work, and I don't

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Speaker 3: really I didn't have any plans whatever to watch, to commentate,

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Speaker 3: to really be invested in it. I guess having been

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Speaker 3: through this spend cycle before, you sort of know what

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Speaker 3: to expect. I'm just glad I know the bit DC

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Speaker 3: anymore and have to witness this up close. But no,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think it's something that we need

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Speaker 3: to It's gonna be triggering, but I don't think we

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Speaker 3: need to.

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Speaker 2: Look.

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Speaker 3: I would say to people, give yourself permission to say

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Speaker 3: I'm good, I'm good on that day, I'm taking that

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Speaker 3: day off, or I'm just not gonna ignore it or

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Speaker 3: pay attention to it. And sometimes, as you know, especially

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Speaker 3: in our positions and because of who we are and

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Speaker 3: because of the opinions that we have the fighters brought

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Speaker 3: to us, we will necessarily even have to engage. But

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Speaker 3: we don't have a thousand people sending us messages like

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Speaker 3: Trump is your president and all this. I'm like, what

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Speaker 3: do y'all think? I just want to ask those people

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Speaker 3: so much, like who do you think you're owning in

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Speaker 3: this situation? Because it's not me?

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Speaker 2: And I mean, why are you here?

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Speaker 1: Like the one star reviews on podcast that just say Trump.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, but you're spending your time finding out that

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Speaker 1: I have a podcast, going to it, reading it, and

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Speaker 1: just writing Trump like who won?

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Speaker 2: Here? I'm living in your brain, like just go enjoy

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Speaker 2: the shit, Like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, don't enjoy that's your mans Go hey, go celebrate him,

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Speaker 3: Like I stop with you.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you that I was wrapped with attention

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Speaker 1: the entire last four years, feeling like I needed to

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Speaker 1: understand and know every single detail, out of fear, out

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Speaker 1: of curiosity, out of hoping that we would come to

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Speaker 1: our senses at various points throughout And now that it

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Speaker 1: has happened again with intention and the knowledge of what

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Speaker 1: happened last time, I just don't need to know every

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Speaker 1: single thing. I need to stay alert, I need to

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Speaker 1: stay informed. I don't need to watch this shit I

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Speaker 1: will not miss Carrie Underwood.

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Speaker 2: My favorite meme from that.

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Speaker 1: Has been the meme that was basically like, so to summarize,

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Speaker 1: if he cheats Carrie underwe it will take a baseball

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Speaker 1: back to his car. But if he cheats and rapes,

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Speaker 1: then she will sing at his inauguration. So yeah, that

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Speaker 1: about sums it up. So we won't be missing much

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Speaker 1: on Monday, but we will have to pay attention over

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Speaker 1: the next four years because we're all wondering and worrying

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Speaker 1: about what another Trump administration will do to everything. But

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Speaker 1: for the sake of this discussion investment and support for

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Speaker 1: women's sports, there are minor things like extending White House

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Speaker 1: invites to winning women's teams, to major things like Trump

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Speaker 1: wanting to dismantle the Department of Education, which enforces Title nine.

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Speaker 1: What are your concerns about the next four years when

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Speaker 1: it comes to stunting this incredible growth that we've seen

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Speaker 1: over the last couple of years for women's sports.

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Speaker 3: My biggest concern in general and is that there's no

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Speaker 3: guardrails because everything all his worst instincts. There's nobody to say,

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Speaker 3: you know what you probably shouldn't right. There's there was

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Speaker 3: at least one person in the room to do that

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Speaker 3: before because they he had people in there who'd actually

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Speaker 3: had experience in government. But see now it's different. They're

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Speaker 3: people who sole purpose is to make sure his worst

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Speaker 3: fantasies come true. And so as it relates to women's sports,

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Speaker 3: I don't think a lot of people understood that the

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Speaker 3: Department of Education is an enforcement office. Okay, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of the issues because I see it all the

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Speaker 3: time on social media, people are like cheering it on,

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Speaker 3: destroy the Department of Education because those people don't realize

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Speaker 3: the states already run your education. Okay, they already do,

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Speaker 3: so this whole idea of giving it back to the states,

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Speaker 3: like the state born of education. They're in charge of

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Speaker 3: your curriculum, They're in charge of all those issues that

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Speaker 3: you have. And as someone who's a public school kid,

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Speaker 3: I am heartbroken about this because the assault on public

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Speaker 3: education is real and this will have a very real

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Speaker 3: It already has had a real impact in sports the

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Speaker 3: way they tried to dismantle public education. Because notice now

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Speaker 3: when you look at where the top high school prospects

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Speaker 3: are coming from, Notice the schools they're coming from. It's

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Speaker 3: like they're not coming from a lot of the public

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Speaker 3: schools anymore. They're coming from academies, they're coming from private schools.

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Speaker 3: And that is always the plan is to take the

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Speaker 3: best and the talented, weed them out, put them in

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Speaker 3: specialized situations, and leave behind everybody else.

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Speaker 2: You don't want.

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Speaker 3: That is the entire idea. Now when it comes to

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Speaker 3: women's sports, obviously we know this there is that the

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Speaker 3: number one focus of this administration is to bans, to

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Speaker 3: ban trans athletes. This number one, like, no, let me

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Speaker 3: be more specific, to ban trans women because they ain't

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Speaker 3: saying shit about transmen ever, right, like never as part

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Speaker 3: of the conversation. Right, So it's all about trans women.

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Speaker 3: And so all of these people who hate women's sports,

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Speaker 3: because frankly, that's who's driving a lot of this, they're

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Speaker 3: going to use that to change the language and saying

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Speaker 3: they're protecting women's sports because I guarantee you what, it

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Speaker 3: won't be a single piece of legislation about supporting and

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Speaker 3: infesting in women's sports that ever crosses across this because

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Speaker 3: it's about targeting one single group, one single group, demonizing them.

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Speaker 3: Even though there's what I think the NCAA president Charlie

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Speaker 3: Baker said, there's trans women who are competing in sports.

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Speaker 3: In college sports, there's five hundred thousand athletes. College athletes,

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Speaker 3: there's ten all right, And that doesn't mean just because

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Speaker 3: the low numbers that they deserve to be dehumanized. That's

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Speaker 3: not what they're saying. But it's saying is that they've

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Speaker 3: literally brought a missile to a fight that nobody like,

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Speaker 3: why what are we doing? So my concern is that

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Speaker 3: my concern, especially with Title nine, is enforcement of sexual assault.

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Speaker 3: That is a huge concern. We got a preview of

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Speaker 3: this with Betsy DeVos when she was Secretary of Education.

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Speaker 3: There was actually she revamped all of the Obama era

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Speaker 3: protections that afforded accusers certain rights, certain privacies. She changed

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Speaker 3: all that shit and in fact made it so that

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Speaker 3: those who were accused of sexual assault could interview their

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Speaker 3: accuser in person, right, and so all that's coming back.

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Speaker 3: So for women who are on college campuses right now,

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Speaker 3: where we know there's rampant issues with rape and sexual assault,

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Speaker 3: all of those protections will be gone, a lot of them.

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Speaker 3: I think they have focused on making things. They call

434
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,520
Speaker 3: it making things more balanced. What they mean is tilting

435
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,639
Speaker 3: things in favor of those who are accused of sexual

436
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 3: assault and rape. So I expect all of these things

437
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 3: to happen under this administration because there's really nothing to

438
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 3: stop them. I think they're going to take all the

439
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,960
Speaker 3: teeth out of Title nine. As it is, so many

440
00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 3: athletic departments are not in compliance. It's like over eighty

441
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,160
Speaker 3: percent are not in compliance with Title nine. Title nine

442
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 3: as it was. If anything, what they needed was actually

443
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 3: more compliance on enforcement. Yeah, they need a more enforcement

444
00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 3: and they don't have it because they've never actually taken

445
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 3: away any anything from an athletic department because they were

446
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 3: out of out of concert with Title nine. They've never

447
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 3: done it. So it's like, you know, it's nice.

448
00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 1: Didn't have a lot of teeth to begin with, and

449
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,480
Speaker 1: now so we'll probably have lesson.

450
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 2: For those who don't know, Title nine is an education law.

451
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,560
Speaker 1: It is preventing you from you know, losing access or

452
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: opportunity as a result of a variety of things, which

453
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,080
Speaker 1: can include sexual assault or you know, not having access

454
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: to sport, all this other stuff. It often gets talked

455
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: about in sports context, but it's really about the protection

456
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: of education for gender.

457
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 2: We got to take a quick break. When we come back.

458
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: I want to talk about the rollback of DEI initiatives.

459
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,440
Speaker 1: I want to talk about your new projects, a bunch

460
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,600
Speaker 1: of stuff. We're going to come back with Jamel Hill

461
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: after the short break. We're back with Jamal Hill. I

462
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: want to talk about this rapid unraveling of DEI initiatives

463
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:43,959
Speaker 1: and promises from sports leagues and sponsors and companies and universities,

464
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:46,160
Speaker 1: mainly in the sports space. It felt like we were

465
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: making strides during America's twenty twenty racial reckoning. What's your

466
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: reaction to this very quick reversal of policy and attention.

467
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 3: Oh, I'm not surprised at all. And I said in

468
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,439
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty when all the black squares is growing up,

469
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, it's really easy to do

470
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,680
Speaker 3: it when it's popular, when everybody else is like, yeah,

471
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 3: we need to do this, we need to do this.

472
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 3: How I judge you is what you do when it's unpopular.

473
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,240
Speaker 3: It's what you do when you have to fight. Anytime

474
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 3: that you are in the business of fighting for people

475
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: who are in marginalized communities, be it women of color,

476
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 3: be it black people, be it those in the queer community.

477
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 3: Anytime you're in that fight, the fight doesn't start until

478
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 3: somebody hates it, until it's not popular. And so all

479
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 3: these companies, I think they're a joke because like that,

480
00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 3: let me know that it was never real, Like you

481
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:32,000
Speaker 3: only did it because the shit looked good. You need

482
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 3: to do it because you actually believed in it, because

483
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 3: if you believed in it, you be like Costco, which

484
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 3: is sticking to their DEI initiative. Right. Shout out to Costco,

485
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 3: please don't love a goud bring it back. Those bisc

486
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 3: off ice cream sandwiches. I need to get some because

487
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,119
Speaker 3: they're never they're never in stock Costco. Damn it.

488
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 1: Can I tell you something then? Can we still be friends?

489
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:52,680
Speaker 1: I've never been to Costco.

490
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 3: I mean I get to go, like I need to go.

491
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 3: Do you okay? At the very you need to go

492
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: for the for the pizza which is bomb and which

493
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,639
Speaker 3: are amazing.

494
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 1: Well vegetarian who mostly eats vegetables, which is why I

495
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: don't go to Costco, cause vegetables in bulk because then.

496
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:12,160
Speaker 2: They go back.

497
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 3: You can't.

498
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 2: But I've heard, you know, I could get some toilet paper,

499
00:24:15,760 --> 00:24:16,040
Speaker 2: you know.

500
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 3: But I was gonna say, if you if you think

501
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,040
Speaker 3: about you know, COVID and the doomsday scenarios right, Like

502
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 3: if you want to make sure you have toilet paper

503
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 3: for an entire year, there you go, right, Or you

504
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 3: have life salt wipes for six months.

505
00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to find a way to make my virgin voyage.

506
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: You have to go to castuff. It is, it's part

507
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,120
Speaker 3: of it. And it oh, especially if you're somebody who

508
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 3: entertains at your house. You could get bulk liquor bulk

509
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 3: liqu there very important.

510
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,880
Speaker 2: Now we're talking about language, see.

511
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,879
Speaker 3: What I'm saying. So you know, when you look at

512
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,439
Speaker 3: the history again, history our greatest teacher. When you look

513
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 3: at what happened within the Nazi regime, so many people

514
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,640
Speaker 3: ask like why did so many people go along with it?

515
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 3: How did they not fight? It's because it was death

516
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 3: by a thousand paper cuts. That's why it's little things.

517
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,120
Speaker 3: A lot of people the knee before they were asked

518
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 3: to ben the knee. And that's exactly what's happening.

519
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: Now.

520
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,439
Speaker 3: You see people going to meet with Trump sadding they

521
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 3: want to make them happy. You see all this capitulation

522
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: he's never even asked for, right, and you're doing it

523
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 3: in fear of trying to protect your own pocket and

524
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 3: what you're gonna do is wind up. It's gonna wind

525
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 3: up having a historically bad effect. History will not look

526
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 3: kindly on this moment. But people don't care about it

527
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 3: in the moment. They just care about what's in front

528
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 3: of them. So anyway, what I say to that is

529
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 3: a lot of people that started to use d I

530
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 3: much like woke as they're you know, three simple words

531
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 3: that they can understand is the DEI was never about that.

532
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: It was about giving people who were never in the

533
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 3: room or never considered, an opportunity to be considered. That

534
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:43,720
Speaker 3: didn't mean they were less stand that didn't mean that

535
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 3: they were not qualified. That's all it was ever about.

536
00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 3: And to see that narrative hijacked and also by the way,

537
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: to be for it to be hijacked at a moment

538
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 3: where you're gonna have a cabinet that's gonna be confirmed,

539
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 3: that could be one of the most idiotic we've ever seen.

540
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 3: And so let me get this straight. Yeah, you know,

541
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 3: uh Lenna McMahon who has like literally no experience of

542
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 3: education at all, that's.

543
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: Not they But like, OK, like we need a word

544
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: for other than just like nepotism or white privilege or

545
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, like country club conversations. We need a

546
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 1: word for like the equivalent that they try to weaponize DEI,

547
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: but for like just dumb shit people getting jobs that

548
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: they don't deserve because of who they know. Correct, we

549
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: need like it's the same kind of catchphrase that's easy

550
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,639
Speaker 1: to throw around because we should be using it at

551
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 1: every single person that he's trying to appoint right now.

552
00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 3: None of them are quality as you literally could. I'm

553
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: just like, nobody's qualified to do any of these jobs.

554
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 3: But all right, went in doubt, blame the black people,

555
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 3: I got it right, So so yeah, no, it makes

556
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 3: me very disappointed in a lot of companies who frankly

557
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 3: have the authority and the positioning to do better and

558
00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 3: they're not.

559
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: And the power and the power and the research that

560
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: says that companies that have more diverse boards tend to

561
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: be more effective, more profitable, that having people with different

562
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: lived experiences and perspectives and everything benefits your companies. It's

563
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 1: just so frustrating that even when you have the numbers,

564
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 1: you still push back.

565
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,640
Speaker 3: You still do what you do, and so like, I

566
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 3: so it it. Unfortunately, I've just lived through too many

567
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 3: of these moments, and so that's why the next time,

568
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,640
Speaker 3: because another moment will come for sure, and it's gonna

569
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 3: happen within these four years where all of that is

570
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 3: going to suddenly be under examination again and something's gonna happen,

571
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 3: and it's going to trigger people being like, oh, we

572
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 3: need to care about these marginalized groups that we should

573
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,040
Speaker 3: on on the way in. It's gonna happen again, and

574
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 3: to the same point, I'm gonna I'm gonna bring it

575
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: up again and say if this is just flee to

576
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,400
Speaker 3: the moment, you could save that shit, honestly, keep it

577
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 3: like I've just ye next time, and unfortunately, there will

578
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 3: be a next time that there's a George Floorda, some calamity,

579
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 3: some catastrophe that happens. Keep that shit. I don't want

580
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 3: to hear anything about your diverse initiatives, none of that.

581
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: Keep yeah, but congrats to the author of white fragility,

582
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,880
Speaker 1: who will get another huge bump whenever that.

583
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: Happens from all those things.

584
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 1: I want to just say that this sounds very hopeless.

585
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: The hope will kill you, but it's also necessary. You

586
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: can't just lay down and say, Okay, it's going to

587
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: keep happening.

588
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: We're not going to make progress.

589
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: The progress does happen, and it's baby steps that then

590
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 1: the next time you pick it back up, we've started

591
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: from a better place. But it is hard, and it's

592
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: hard to have the same shit come back for people

593
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: of color, for women, for all these marginalized groups where

594
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: it feels like you make progress and in the end,

595
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,159
Speaker 1: that same deeply held racism is at the root or

596
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: misogyny is at the root of the most powerful people

597
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 1: in spaces.

598
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: It's incredibly frustrating.

599
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: Let's pivot briefly because I want to talk about your

600
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,840
Speaker 1: new projects really quick. You've got this new show for

601
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 1: TNT sports Evening lineup.

602
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: How and where can people watch it?

603
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: And what are you hoping to add to the space

604
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: with this above the fold show.

605
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 3: Well, the whole point of it was to kind of

606
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 3: have a bit of a return to the things that

607
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 3: we love about sports, right because sometimes in our jobs

608
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 3: they get so weighed down by so many things that

609
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 3: we forget about what is it that what is that

610
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 3: love that we have for in the beginning, Like, what

611
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 3: is it that draws us to it? And it's like

612
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: incredible stories about perseverance, about grid, about determination, and so

613
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: you know a lot of the longer form pieces that

614
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 3: we've done have been about those people who are doing that,

615
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 3: who have used sports as a way to better their lives,

616
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 3: use sports as a way to get out of some darkness,

617
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,200
Speaker 3: and frankly, you know, like we did we've done fans

618
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 3: spotlights about fans who are like super fans of teams

619
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 3: and like how they live their lives, and it's been

620
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: to me. I just wanted it to be something just

621
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 3: a little bit more encouraging in the sports space. And

622
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,960
Speaker 3: then also to have you know, a word that is

623
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 3: greatly lost in our stupid time, which is nuance to

624
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: have conversations about sports that aren't always about who is

625
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 3: the villain, who's the hero, but maybe it's a little

626
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 3: bit of both. Maybe it's something that's in between. Uh,

627
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 3: And to have you know, we did a whole episode

628
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 3: dedicated to women's sports, which was great. That's something like

629
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 3: I never could have imagined doing, you know, when I

630
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 3: first starded sort of covering and being interested in women's sports.

631
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 3: And also we wanted to have different voices like of course,

632
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 3: like we know, you know, we know about the Sara space,

633
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 3: but who's the next Sara Spain that we may not

634
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: know about uh that deserves a platform yet you're still

635
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 3: jump no, sh Sara Spain is still out there, but

636
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 3: there are others who aspire to become a Sarah Spain

637
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 3: and having a space you know for them. It reminded

638
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:39,719
Speaker 3: me very much as you know all too well of

639
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 3: when we had His and Hers. There always had to

640
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: be a hers, right, and so in this space, I

641
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 3: wanted to create something similar, but just for a multitude

642
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: of different voices that maybe nationally didn't have the same

643
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 3: profile that I have or you have the people who

644
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: kind of deserve that kind of push and end bump

645
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 3: and so so yeah, that was that was the kind

646
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: of the genesis behind, you know, above the fold and

647
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 3: so and then just for me personally, just as someone

648
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 3: who has been in doing broadcasting you know now for

649
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 3: a while, just to sort of get back out there,

650
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 3: I just kind of do it regularly because I've sort

651
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 3: of in and out and really been very precious about

652
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 3: how I want to spend my broadcasting time. So it

653
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,479
Speaker 3: was a way for me to get back in it

654
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 3: in the thick of it. And I mean the people

655
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 3: that Spring, Galt and Seed have been amazing and so yeah,

656
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: like it's been great I love.

657
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: That the mentorship angle is there for that show as well,

658
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 1: because you mentioned that some people might not understand when

659
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: you had His and Hers because there was a hers

660
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 1: when you were out. That meant that another woman was

661
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: coming and taking that place at a time when it

662
00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 1: was rare for women to get these opportunities to be

663
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: opinionists and to be on shows like that. So folks

664
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: like me and Kate Fagan and others got that opportunity

665
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: with intention from you. And that's why I call you

666
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: my career fairy godmother, because you spotted me from not

667
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: getting any TV time and said you should be on TV.

668
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: Gave me that opportunity and it completely changed my career,

669
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: and I love that you're doing that again in a

670
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: new place. That's such a part of who you are

671
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: in your in your career, and everybody should take a

672
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: lesson from that.

673
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 2: No one is coming to steal your shit. Lift them up.

674
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: There's enough room for all of us and bring them

675
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 1: with you. Okay, let's talk about spolitics. This is the

676
00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: weekly podcast that you launched in October. I love the

677
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 1: first episode. Our good friend Dan Levettard or former colleague

678
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: at ESPN. You both talked about not being able to

679
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 1: stick to sports and not wanting to. And now you

680
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: have a whole show literally called spolitics where they are

681
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 1: indistinguishable from each other.

682
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 2: Tell me about the show.

683
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 3: So it's what the name suggested, is sports and politics,

684
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 3: the two things they say should never makes, but always makes.

685
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 3: And I just wanted a space in and a lane

686
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,959
Speaker 3: for that to do exactly that. You know what it is.

687
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 3: So you can't download this podcast and say why are

688
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 3: you talking about politics? I literally told you in they

689
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:49,120
Speaker 3: not what? Okay? So you you chose this violence, not me,

690
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 3: right so so, but I also realized too in doing

691
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: it that it's a great lane to explain things like

692
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 3: the current episode that's out now, it's about how how

693
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: the NCDUBLEA became so powerful and one of the big

694
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,880
Speaker 3: court cases that the NCAA has to resolve as they

695
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: must do this, they have this two billion dollar settlement

696
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 3: that they have to adhere to that the final arbitration

697
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 3: is in April. That essentially will bring a level of

698
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 3: collective bargaining to college sports for the first time in

699
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 3: history because every team is essentially going to be they

700
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 3: have a salary cap, right, They're going to have twenty

701
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 3: million dollars or whatever that they can spend and that

702
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 3: they have to decide how they're going to divvy up

703
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: among their sports teams. But right now athletes are fighting

704
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 3: for the right to be classified as employees. What people

705
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 3: don't know, and this is what is in this current

706
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: episode as politics, is that the argument that the NCAA

707
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:48,200
Speaker 3: is using to avoid athletes being considered employees is the

708
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 3: slavery exception. And no, I did not make that up. Yes,

709
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:55,240
Speaker 3: they are using the thirteenth Amendment, which banned slavery, but

710
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 3: there's an exception in that that if you have a

711
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 3: job that is considered too critical, you could be enslaved.

712
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 1: Yes, this is two on the nose for the history

713
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: of the NCAA not paying all predominantly black athletes that

714
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 1: are driving money for everyone but themselves.

715
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 3: Like it's too on the nose, It is true.

716
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,160
Speaker 2: It is why I got to listen to that episode.

717
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 3: Now it's we have the lead co council who is

718
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 3: representing the athletes in this case, Paul McDonell, and he

719
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: explains how they're using the slavery exception to be able

720
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 3: to do it. So, you know, just for people who

721
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 3: don't know, and I highly recommend. There's a documentary abd

722
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 3: Duverna did it called The Thirteen, which is amazing, and

723
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 3: it's about the thirteenth Amendment. Yes, about how they bann slavery,

724
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 3: but not really. And so for people who don't know

725
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 3: this Victoria's secrets, I believe it's Macy's. A number of

726
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 3: businesses they use prisoners to package your items, and they

727
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,799
Speaker 3: are able to pay them like a dollar an hour,

728
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 3: sometimes less than that to do this because it's considered

729
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 3: critical to you.

730
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: Know, sort of manufacturer.

731
00:34:58,239 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 3: They're able to get away with it because of the

732
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 3: slavery exception.

733
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: And this is the firefighters in La.

734
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: This is the This is firefighters in LA that are

735
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: making roughly two dollars an hour to go in choose

736
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: these horrific, terrifying spaces to fight these fires on behalf

737
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: of free people for less than what they should make.

738
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 3: It comes from they would like to use college athletes

739
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 3: in the same manner saying, hey, we don't have to

740
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,720
Speaker 3: have any they don't have to have any employed protection

741
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 3: because what they do is considered so vital to our

742
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 3: business that we can't possibly pay them like employees. Congratulations.

743
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,960
Speaker 1: So anyway, what a country we're in Wow.

744
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 3: Oh and by the way, I should I should have

745
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 3: mentioned this too, real quid Sarah with the firefighters. So

746
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 3: this year on the ballot in California, there was something

747
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 3: to ban slavery, right, like ban that type of slavery

748
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 3: in California, and it failed and it failed. So there's

749
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 3: that pro slavery.

750
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,760
Speaker 2: Well, this episode was supposed to make me feel better.

751
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 2: It okay, we've kept you too long. I do have

752
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,000
Speaker 2: one last question for you.

753
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,919
Speaker 1: I don't think the answer will be positive, but let's

754
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: just get it out there anyway, because I do want

755
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: to ask you this. I am noticing more and more

756
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 1: in both political media and sports media there's an approach

757
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 1: from the right that isn't met by the left. It's

758
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 1: this toxicity and anger, its attacks from the likes of

759
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,080
Speaker 1: folks like OutKick and Barstool and Jason Whitlock, abandoning all

760
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: journalistic principles, a willingness to really give personal shots, share

761
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: false information to inflame viewers and listeners, embrace misogyny and

762
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: racism and homophobia. Nothing is off the table when it

763
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: comes to getting people to quote unquote your side. I

764
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: do not want to embrace any of those things. In

765
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 1: pursuit of more influence or to get the upper hand.

766
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: But I also recognize that there's a tremendous power, particularly

767
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 1: in the tribalism of those spaces. They're creating communities, They're

768
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: giving people identities as part of their audience of supporters.

769
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: They're like almost indoctrinating them. Now Here, I'm trying to

770
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: create this community, a good game that's around positivity and support,

771
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: an inclusion and you know, criticism when it's fair, but

772
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: mostly the joy of sports and coming together. It is

773
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 1: harder to that because we know that negativity and anger

774
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: spur more engagement. So does our desire to maintain integrity

775
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: and tolerance make us fully unprepared for this current information

776
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:13,240
Speaker 1: and attention war. Do we have to change our habits

777
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: even if we don't want to?

778
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. And then some of it, too,

779
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 3: is personal. It's all about what can you live with?

780
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 3: And there's just certain things I can't listen. It's days,

781
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 3: especially when I see how how much money some of

782
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 3: these people are making, when I'm like, why God did

783
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 3: you bless me with integrity? Why can you no shit

784
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 3: of it?

785
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 2: Know what I'm saying.

786
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,240
Speaker 3: I was like, why can't I have a little less

787
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:37,720
Speaker 3: respect for myself?

788
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: Huh, why can't I do this?

789
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:42,840
Speaker 3: I've often thought about this, like, man, I wish I

790
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 3: just had less self respect. But I have got to

791
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,680
Speaker 3: believe that people who do things with integrity, even if

792
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 3: you're not always perfect, that's not what that means. That

793
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 3: people who believe in moving in our business a certain

794
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:58,920
Speaker 3: way will be rewarded. I have to believe in this

795
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 3: because unfortunately, we do see people all the time across

796
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 3: our business who are rewarded for being the shittiest human

797
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 3: beings they possibly can be. But I've got to believe

798
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 3: that that is not that having integrity, having respect, being

799
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: intentional about inclusion and the type of community that you're

800
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,879
Speaker 3: trying to build, while it is in some ways less

801
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 3: financially rewarding or you know, less attention rewarding, I've got

802
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 3: to believe that at the end of the day that

803
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 3: you will get your pot of gold, and that pot

804
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 3: of goal will be even things that matter to you.

805
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 3: It doesn't necessarily have to be money, it doesn't have

806
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 3: to be fame, and doesn't have to be those things.

807
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, you're leaving a

808
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 3: mark and leaving another blueprint for somebody else who wants

809
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 3: to come along and do the same thing, and they

810
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 3: know through you it's possible. You got to leave people

811
00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 3: a blueprint to know what's possible. If you don't, they

812
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 3: we're all kind of fucked right. Like, the only reason

813
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 3: I'm doing what I do is because other people have

814
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 3: shown me it's possible, and they didn't show me that.

815
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,280
Speaker 3: God be screwed. So there's sort of the silver lining

816
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: that we have to cling to that it's not about us.

817
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 3: It's about us trying to make things better in our

818
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 3: profession than when we first got here. And I like

819
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 3: to think that they are you didn't exist when you

820
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,360
Speaker 3: got here, but now you do exist, and now someone

821
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 3: else that is you or better than you can exist

822
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 3: after that. And so you've got to be in it

823
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 3: for that. Like I'm not in it for me. I'm

824
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,760
Speaker 3: in it for all the people coming behind me, because

825
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 3: otherwise what am I doing this for. I had a

826
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 3: conversation with Jane Kennedy at the Essence Black Woman in

827
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 3: Hollywood Brunch, and Jane Kennedy is a pioneer in our business.

828
00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 3: She was like the first black woman basically to get

829
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 3: a national platform being on NFL today, her broadcasting career

830
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,200
Speaker 3: got talk about misinformation, got completely ruined, and I need

831
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,399
Speaker 3: people to buy her memoir, which is actually coming out

832
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 3: this month. I do a blurb for it because it's

833
00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 3: really crazy how her broadcast career got ruined at any rate.

834
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: I say all that to say is that I would

835
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: be making Jane Kennedy's fight not worth it if I quit,

836
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:53,439
Speaker 3: if I didn't do the things and do the things

837
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 3: the way I do them now. And so you never

838
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,399
Speaker 3: want the people that came ahead of you to think

839
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 3: that what they did had no purpose, and you don't

840
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 3: want the people to be mind you to not have

841
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 3: a blueprint to do what you do. So that's why

842
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 3: you're doing this there.

843
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I have to say it sounds pollyannish, but

844
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: like the thing that's coming to me that you mentioned

845
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: is already here, because every day I'm very joyful and

846
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,480
Speaker 1: happy in the work I do. And I can't imagine

847
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:16,440
Speaker 1: what it feels like to be someone who traffics in

848
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 1: other people's sadness, in mocking people, in attacking people, and

849
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 1: trying to send your trolls out to attack people like

850
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 1: the everyday just like mindset of those people must be tragic.

851
00:40:27,880 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 2: It's constantly adversarial.

852
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 1: So I think the joy also comes in the feeling

853
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: of what you're doing, being good every single day, even

854
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 1: if there is no real, true pot of gold at

855
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: the end. And I think that's kind of a microcosm

856
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: for what we have to do over the next four years. Again,

857
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: I keep saying it, but just make our little corner

858
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 1: of the world, the people that we influence, the people

859
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: that we know, the people that we interact with, happier

860
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: and stronger and better. While the people above in the

861
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: biggest and highest places might not be doing what we want,

862
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: we can at least try to make as much change

863
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: as possible in the smaller spaces.

864
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 2: That's really all we can do.

865
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,879
Speaker 1: Jamel, I just took forty eight minutes of your time

866
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: in Bora Bora. You are truly a queen and I

867
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:06,759
Speaker 1: love you so much and thank you so much for

868
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: coming on.

869
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 3: No, I appreciate being on and having this conversation.

870
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: This is good for me.

871
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 3: It's good for me to understand and to constantly be

872
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 3: mindful of, like why I'm in this business and why

873
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 3: I do what I do. And I want to bring

874
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,799
Speaker 3: that same joy that you talked about I will now

875
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: tell my kidnapper that I am free to be held

876
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:30,799
Speaker 3: hostage in this cabana and uh my ties are coming. Yes,

877
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:33,799
Speaker 3: that's right, my kidnappers. What can I say? I'm gonna

878
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 3: have Stockholm syndrome after this. It's right.

879
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 2: I caught a glimpse on me. Looks hot. What's up one?

880
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 3: Yeah? I won't tell him? You Sam, what's up? All right? Sick?

881
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 3: Thank you?

882
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Jamal for taking the time. We got

883
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 1: to take another quick break stick around slices.

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00:41:58,440 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: Welcome back.

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00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 1: I just want to say one more big thank you

886
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:02,839
Speaker 1: to Jamel for taking the time to talk to us,

887
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 1: especially all the way from Bora, Bora on vacation. I

888
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: hope we can all cling to the hope that you

889
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 1: provided and the very important reminder that every little bit we.

890
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 2: Do moves us forward.

891
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: I remember President Obama when asked how painful it was

892
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: to watch Donald Trump roll back policies and initiatives that

893
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: he'd worked painstakingly on, he said, the thing to remember

894
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 1: is that progress moves us forward. So even when others

895
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: try to send us backward, they're still starting from a

896
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,879
Speaker 1: place far ahead of where we were when the work began.

897
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,440
Speaker 1: So yes, we'll have some cleaning up to do and

898
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: fighting to do and progress to restore, but our work

899
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 1: in our little corners and neighborhoods and communities can help

900
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: make sure that we're starting further ahead, pushing further ahead,

901
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: and making efforts to dismantle progress tougher every time someone tries.

902
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want to get

903
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 1: you in the game every day too, So here's our

904
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,799
Speaker 1: good game play of the day. Spend a little more

905
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,840
Speaker 1: time with Jamel, whether that's diving into her fantastic memoir, Uphill,

906
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 1: tuning into Above the Fold, or listening to a episodes

907
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: of Spolitics. We'll link to all three of those in

908
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: the show notes. And we always love to hear from you.

909
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: To hit us up on email, Good Game at wondermedianetwork

910
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: dot com or leave us a voicemail at eight seven

911
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: two two o four fifty seventy. We love to hear

912
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: your voices. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Jamel,

913
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,919
Speaker 1: Good Game, Bora, Bora you corporations that just sign on

914
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: when it's good for business. Good Game with Sarah Spain

915
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: is an iheartwomen's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue

916
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app,

917
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Production by

918
00:43:34,640 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: Wonder Media Network. Our producers are Alex Azzie and Misha Jones.

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00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz, Jenny Kaplan

920
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:45,279
Speaker 1: and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rudder, Britney Martinez,

921
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch, and Lindsay Cradowell.

922
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,240
Speaker 2: Production assistant from Lucy Jones and I'm Your Host Sarah

923
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: Spain