WEBVTT - NASA Wants to Go to Mars 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.200 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:15.080 Forward Thinking. Hey there, and welcome Forward Thinking, the podcast 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:17.279 that looks at the future and says the sunlight is 0:00:17.320 --> 0:00:21.160 going into the mountain. I'm Jonathan Strickland and I'm Joe McCormick, 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:23.840 and our other host, Lauren Vogelbaum is not with us 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.400 in the studio today, but she will be back next time. 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:32.959 So um, Joe. Yeah, when you are thinking about potential 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:36.960 places that you would like to vacation, does the Red 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:40.920 Planet ever make the list? Is that a euphemism for 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:44.120 Las Vegas? Know that that would that would be like 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:47.240 what happens on the Red Planet stays on the Red planet. Well, 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:52.839 you might be more right than you know. It might 0:00:52.880 --> 0:00:54.880 be really hard for stuff to happen on the Red 0:00:54.920 --> 0:01:00.880 planet that gets off the Red Planet. I'm sorry, We're 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:04.640 going to reference the movie Total Recall a lot of times. Yeah, 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:07.240 at least Joe will I will I will attempt to 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:09.400 keep a lid on it. Well, yeah, actually, I'm gonna 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.760 spend this whole podcast trying not to talk exclusively about 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.160 Total Recall, the one that takes place on Mars. I 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:17.920 don't know what happens in the new one, I mean 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:21.080 the old one, the good one. Yeah. Yeah, So we 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:25.120 wanted to talk about Mars simply because there's this big 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:29.680 anniversary that happened this year. Some guys went to uh, 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.840 pretty distant neighborhood called the Moon. Oh I've heard of that. Yeah. 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:37.360 The Polo landing happened forty five years ago, and as 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.560 part of the celebration for it, NASA published this this 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.560 little report saying what comes next, and one of the 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:48.440 things that really focused on was an attempt to actually 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:51.440 send human beings to Mars for the first time. In fact, 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.560 what they said is the first human being to set 0:01:53.600 --> 0:01:56.840 foot on Mars is alive today. Yeah. Yeah, And so 0:01:56.960 --> 0:01:59.080 the first ones who will set foot on Mars are 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.720 are currently walking around, which suggests that not only are 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:07.080 they alive there at least three. Yeah. What age do 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:10.480 you start walking? Oh? I started walking right right, Yeah. 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:12.480 I was right around thirteen when I started walking. Before that, 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.160 I was just carried everywhere like a pasha. But uh, yeah, 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.600 at this point, um, we're talking about you know, according 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:22.000 to NASA, assuming and and keep in mind that NASA 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.800 publishes this kind of stuff in part to get support 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.240 behind its its goals, right because it's it's government funded, 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.000 so it has to get support so that it gets 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.040 the funding necessary to do the science that we need 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:40.320 to do. Of course, a lot of people don't like science, yeah, 0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:43.280 or they don't think it's like the idea of it, 0:02:43.360 --> 0:02:45.919 but they don't like paying for it, right. That's when 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:47.560 it ultimately comes down to I'm not going to shy 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:49.639 away from it. That's you know, some people are like, yes, 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:51.840 I want us to go to Mars. No, I don't 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:55.880 want that to be you know, any of my responsibility. Uh, 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.400 And that's an issue, which that's part of what NASA 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:02.120 is trying to to to address, saying, look, this is 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:04.079 what this is a lofty goal and it's a goal 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:07.480 worth having. And we'll talk more about wine a little bit. Well, 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.280 let's uh take a minute before we get into NASA's 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:15.000 new announcement and just look back on the idea of 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.600 going to Mars, because this has been around for a while, 0:03:18.480 --> 0:03:22.480 but obviously we've never been it. Only you know, it 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.520 wouldn't even take a full year to get there if 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.080 you time the trip, right, would be some several months, 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:32.320 probably eighteen months total from start to finish, like to 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.200 get their land, wait for the right time to be 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:37.720 able to come back. I'm not talking about a round trip, 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:39.640 I'm talking about to get there, to get there okay, 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:46.600 six months, Okay, Okay, that's not that bad. Why haven't 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.640 we been to Mars yet? And maybe this discussion will 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.480 help color our ideas about how we will get there 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.960 in the future. I would guess one of the big 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.120 things has got to be something we mentioned just a 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:01.760 second ago. Money. Yeah, cost, money is a huge one. 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.160 How how much would it actually cost to get to 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:06.600 Marston I'm sure some people of gas. Okay, so here, 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:10.320 here's the thing. We don't know, obviously, because we haven't 0:04:10.360 --> 0:04:12.160 sent anyone to Mars. We can't say if we had 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:13.680 sent someone to Mars and then said, hey, can you 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.480 tell you up all your receipts and let's know how 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.760 much it was. Yeah, we stopped for coffee somewhere right 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:21.920 between the Moon and Mars, and that added you know, 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.839 if we ended up all the costs, then we could say, okay, 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:27.039 this is how much it actually cost us to send someone. 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:29.400 But not knowing means we have to make a lot 0:04:29.400 --> 0:04:32.680 of estimations, and those estimations are all over the place, 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.800 right I mean seriously, all over the place. You're about 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:40.640 to hear an amazing space. So Mars one, this is 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.600 a this is a private venture. We talked about it 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:46.559 briefly in our episode about going to the Moon versus 0:04:46.560 --> 0:04:49.279 going to Mars. We talked about the Mars one initiative. 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.599 We can offer some opinions about Mars one and a bit, 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:56.279 but I would say they have offered a somewhat low ball. 0:04:57.160 --> 0:05:00.800 They have aggressively priced their trip to Mars. Okay, so 0:05:01.040 --> 0:05:05.159 they say that to set the first of four, the 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.720 first four astronauts of a group of I think it's 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.880 like sixteen ultimately something like that. It's it's quite a 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.920 few that will eventually get there. But the the first 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:17.120 four to get to Mars and set them up, including 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.040 all the equipment and everything necessary to keep them alive, 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:25.160 would cost six billion dollars, and every subsequent mission of 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:28.880 four more astronauts joining the ones who are already there 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:33.680 would be four billion. Hm. That's pretty low when you 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.120 compare it to say, the nineteen eighty nine plan that 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:41.679 was proposed by NASA, which did not have a price 0:05:41.680 --> 0:05:44.640 tag associated with the actual plan. They laid out what 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.680 the plan was and then other people based on what 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.920 the plan was, estimated what the cost would be. So 0:05:51.000 --> 0:05:53.480 based upon NASA's plan, and I'll talk about what that 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.720 was in a little bit too. Uh they cost They 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.960 said that would cost about four hundred fifty billion dollars. 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.159 It is pretty pretty big range between six billion to 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.520 four hundred fifty billion. Yea, yeah, so, uh, there are 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:10.560 a lot of different reasons why those range of costs 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.920 are so different. First of all, nine nine technology very 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.880 different from current technology. Wait a minute, was that estimated 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:21.240 in nineteen eighty nine dollars? Also? Uh? Yeah, I imagine so, 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.479 so we'd have to figure in inflation, which I did 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.960 not do. But it may also be due to either optimism, 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:30.359 like blind optimism if you want to be you know, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:34.960 really really kind of hardcore about this. Yeah, all right. 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.000 May just again, when I say aggressive, it may be unrealistic. 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.720 You might say that that the Mars one view may 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:45.520 be unrealistic, which is all dependent upon your knowledge of 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:49.000 everything that's going on and how how the world works. Um. 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.239 I don't feel fully qualified to say that at all. 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:54.400 I don't feel qualified to say it necessarily, but my 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.120 gut is that it is unrealistic. Um. Whereas you might 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.680 say that it was blind pessimism that cause people to 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.520 say the NASA plan would have cost four fifty billion dollars. 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:05.719 Will never know because that plan was never put into action, 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:07.680 so we can't really say one way or the other, 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.280 but it does sound like to be pretty expensive. So 0:07:11.040 --> 0:07:13.360 there are other plans that fall between these two extremes, 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.040 like the Mars Direct Initiative, which has said that it's 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.400 planned to send people to Mars and come back, which 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.600 is important but only cost thirty billion. The reason why 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:26.280 I say it's important is that Mars One Initiative, Uh, 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:29.280 that's a one way ticket. You go to Mars, you're 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.960 part of a Martian colony, and you may or may 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:34.080 not ever have the opportunity to come back to Earth. 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:39.160 You go knowing that there's the overwhelming possibility that that's 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.800 where you spend the rest of your life. Uh. Because 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.520 that that's what the whole focus of the Mars One 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:47.960 Initiative is is to get people on Mars and to 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:52.560 create a sustainable colony. Uh, not to have a place 0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:56.040 where people can go explore and then come back to Earth. Um. 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:57.760 That's one way to keep the cost down because you 0:07:57.760 --> 0:07:59.960 don't have to worry about building a launch system. Cap 0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.880 double of escaping Mars is gravity and taking people back 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.080 all the way to Earth. Okay, but another thing is 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:09.640 if you're talking about a mission that has a colony, 0:08:09.760 --> 0:08:12.880 so it has a crew, it's an ongoing mission and 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.760 not just like you're sending a probe to do one job, 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:23.320 You're gonna be talking about potentially unforeseeable ends and unknown costs. 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:26.520 Right sure, yeah, because I mean unless you just say, okay, 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:29.280 we're calculating the cost to dump them on the surface 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:32.880 and then never spend any more money. Well, which I mean, 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:36.040 can you can do the math for all? Right, here's 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.679 the bare minimum of stuff we will need to accomplish this, right, 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.680 this is. This is the amount of fuel will need. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:43.760 This is the amount of food and water and oxygen 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:46.360 will need. Uh you know, this is this is the 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:49.760 number of replacement parts we want in case there's something 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.320 that goes wrong. You can go ahead and factor in 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.840 all those things and try and come up with a budget. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.960 But stuff happens, right, Things things happen that you did 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.880 not anticipate. Because that's the way the world works, or 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.200 in this case, that's the way the universe works. Uh, 0:09:05.280 --> 0:09:08.000 so it means that you know, even if you come 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.520 up with a budget that seems realistic, you can never 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.079 really be sure until you've actually done the thing, right. 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.880 I mean, just like one practical scenario is imagine you 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.160 put the colony down, they're set up, and then a 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.520 very crucial piece of equipment of their's breaks and they 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:26.920 don't have a way to make another one. So you now, 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:30.400 and what if their lives depend on this, you need 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.800 to send another one to Mars. Keeping in mind that's 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:34.719 going to take months and months, because you remember that 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.240 six to eight months is all depended upon where Earth 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:39.439 and Mars are in their respective orbits, right, it could 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.560 be a lot longer if they're not in the optimal position. Yea. 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.400 So also you got to remember that what if, what 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.400 if it comes time for them to launch off of Mars, 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.319 But that also coincides with the time when Mars has 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:54.640 an enormous dust storm, which does happen on that planet, 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.280 which could extend their need to stay on the planet 0:09:58.360 --> 0:10:01.600 for perhaps even up to you know, almost a year 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:06.000 in order for the orbits to come into the right 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:11.040 optimal position. Because that that orbit stuff that's really important, 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:13.160 You've got to have the right amount of fuel to 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.800 get to your destination. And if it turns out that, well, 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.480 we couldn't launch the launch window. Now there's no way 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:20.840 for us to make it back to Earth. If we 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:23.240 were to launch today. We have to wait until we're 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:26.640 back around to a point where the orbits are ideal 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:29.120 for us to do it. Again. That's another you know, 0:10:29.280 --> 0:10:32.880 several months at the very least. So it's you know, 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:34.199 it's there are a lot of things you have to 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:37.120 take into consideration. Uh So, Yeah, it's one of those 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:39.839 things where again it's impossible to say, of course until 0:10:39.880 --> 0:10:43.320 after we actually do it. Of course, the even bigger 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:47.160 thing than costs probably is the human risk. I mean, 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:51.280 there are very serious dangers in going to Mars. Yeah, 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:54.120 there's serious dangers just going into space, right, Like we're 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.880 talking about serious dangers that go that are involved if 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.560 you're just going into lower Earth orbit. And it's hard 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.840 for me to say just because that's further than I've 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:07.600 ever gone, but low Earth orbit is still relatively safe 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.600 compared to anything that that travels outside of the Earth's 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:16.400 gravitational field, which is very much a protective layer for us. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:20.240 So you first have all the dangerous associated with your 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:23.400 average space launch. Those are all still at play, right, 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.920 and you could have a critical failure all those things, 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:28.520 but that, like you said, that could happen anytime you're 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:31.440 leaving the atmosphere. That's just your baseline. So that's you 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.080 already have that. And we've already determined that the risks 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:39.280 associated with space launches are are not so great as 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.559 to prevent us from actually doing them. We've just and 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.680 and again when we talk about risks, this is also 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:48.079 something that comes down to a a individual choice to 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:51.600 There are people out there who are willing to take 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.760 enormous risks if it means the chance to go to Mars, 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.720 and to them, they may they may look at something 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:03.120 that to another person and seems far too dangerous to undertake, 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:05.640 and they'll say, no, I want to do this. So 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.240 this is this also comes down to individual preference in 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:10.920 some respects. But there are some things that are just unavoidable. 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:15.240 Avoidable like cosmic rays, cosmic rays, solar radiation another one. 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.160 We here on Earth are are very lucky. And in fact, 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:22.000 you might say it's not that it's not luck, it's 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:25.320 the reason why we're here. Yeah, we evolved done Earth, 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:31.320 Earth protects us. Yes, uh, not sentiently necessarily, although there 0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:34.800 are people who say otherwise, Uh, yeah, there, but it 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:38.840 has the Earth's atmosphere and it's magnetosphere both protect us 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:43.080 from radiation. The the atmosphere largely protects us from solar 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.160 radiation um, although also can help protect us from cosmic 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:51.000 rays as well. The magnetosphere mainly protects us against cosmic radiation. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:55.080 Cosmic rays are really charged particles, right, They're not. They're 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.600 not raised in the sense of like a science fiction 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:01.880 ray gun. They are these charge particles that can really 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:04.280 do some pretty very fast. Yeah, and they have a 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:07.200 lot of energy in them, and they can seriously cause 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:12.040 some problems if say a person were to encounter them. Now, 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:13.800 of course, if you were to take a crew of 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:17.440 people and put them out of Earth's magnetosphere, say on 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.560 the way to Mars, suddenly they would be exposed. Right. 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.640 They no longer have the the beneficial protection of the 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:27.720 Earth's magnetosphere nor the atmosphere obviously, and so you have 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.559 to figure out, well, how do we shield them from 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.480 these these cosmic rays and the solar radiation that they 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:36.400 will encounter as they move through the Solar system. How 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:39.400 do we make sure that they are protected so that 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:43.680 they don't suffer terrible health effects, either in the short 0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:45.600 term or in the long term. So how do how 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:47.000 do we prevent that as much as possible? And it 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:50.080 mostly means improvements in shielding, although there have been some 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:55.520 other suggestions as well. Okay, so I've got another one. Okay, 0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:00.000 do you know how much exercise astronauts on the Internet 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:02.720 Sational Space Station have to get. It's it's a lot. 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.640 It's like, it's like more than an hour a day, 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.199 is No. They have to do tons of exercise, and 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:12.040 even then they don't get stronger like you do when 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.200 you exercise a lot. On that This is this is 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:19.760 preventive therapy. They're trying to slow the onset of the 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:24.080 deconditioning that naturally occurs when you live in a microgravity environment. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.600 What is that deconditioning, Well, it's muscle loss and its 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.360 bone density loss, and those things are not nice, not 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.920 good for your body. Muscle loss is easier to deal 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:38.160 with than bone density loss, but neither are great. I 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.160 mean it means that if you if you read up 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.760 on astronauts and their experience, especially when they get those 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:46.400 that spend a lot of time on the I s S, 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.400 for example, the International Space Station. You'll hear about them 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.560 going through lots of physical therapy when they get back 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.400 in order to help offset any muscle loss or bone 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:59.360 density loss that they've had while they're they were on board. Now, 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.240 with bone dens that, you're kind of stuck, right, I mean, 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.320 you you can't really offset that that much. So that's 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.280 one thing you would have to do is plan for 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:13.080 how do you deal with uh putting the stuff off 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.480 or or or counteracting it as much as possible during 0:15:16.480 --> 0:15:18.640 the duration of the trip. Also, keep in mind that 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.920 Martian gravity is thirty eight percent what Earth's gravity is, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.800 so even once you get there, the problem isn't totally solved. 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.040 Yeah it's not, as it's not a severe thirty eight 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:32.080 percent is still pretty good. You probably wouldn't suffer well, 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.920 you certainly wouldn't suffer the same extent of bone loss 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:36.920 as you would if you spent the equivalent amount of 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.120 time in micro gravity. But it's still something to keep 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.160 in mind. And you know, it's a little harder to 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.320 um figure out how to exercise. I mean, what do 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:49.240 you do you pack exercise equipment that's uh three times 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:51.040 heavier than what it would be on Earth, so that 0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.040 it would feel the equivalent amount of weight when you 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.760 lift it. You know, it's you can't really weighing down 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.800 the spacecraft in order to do that. It is probably 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:01.720 not the best idea because that increases the cost. Again, 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:06.160 another thing is, so if you have extended space travel 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:09.280 and you do wanna give give the astronauts something to 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.960 help keep them healthy on this strip, what are your options? 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:15.360 I mean, there aren't many. Basically, the only thing I 0:16:15.440 --> 0:16:20.000 can imagine is creating an artificial gravity spacecraft. We've we've 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.600 discussed how you could do that, but we've also discussed 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:26.200 why that's difficult because it would just involve lots and 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.360 lots more building in space and shipping more and more 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:33.360 materials up there. So yeah, the Mars direct approach is uh, 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.640 you know, it's different from saying, let's let's make sure 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:39.120 the astronauts have X amount of time per day to 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.680 exercise so that they can counteract this these effects. And 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.280 when they were actually when they would be traveling from 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.600 Earth to Mars, they would, according to that approach, be 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.080 in a rotating spacecraft. It would it would simulate gravity, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.080 and then that's how they would avoid muscle loss and 0:16:56.120 --> 0:16:59.880 bone density loss. Well, that does seem ideal for astronaut health. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.120 But my question is that seems yet again like that's 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:05.959 going to be massively increasing your costs. And they were 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:10.439 talking about you offset that specifically using the the the 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.040 launch vehicle as a counterweight, and it's so okay. So 0:17:14.080 --> 0:17:17.919 instead of like a tourist or wheel, it would be 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:22.199 like a tethered right, so you'd have a floor inside 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:26.080 your spacecraft and then that would be spinning opposite a 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.240 counterweight through a tether, yes, yes, and then you would 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.439 you would end up severing that connection once you got 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:34.960 to Mars, because really it's it's just acting as a 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.400 counterweight in the first place. That makes sense. So it's 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:40.040 an interesting approach. But you know, again, that's that's just 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.320 one initiative. That's the one that was the thirty billion 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.440 dollar approach. Um. That one was proposed by a person 0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.479 who used to work with NASA and is you know 0:17:49.560 --> 0:17:53.960 now kind of the head uh evangelist for this Mars 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.399 direct initiative. Um. But we'll talk a little more about 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.040 that in a bit. Also, the other thing that's dangerous 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:03.480 about trip to Mars, and we're just Right now, we're 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:06.040 just talking about the trip to Mars. We're not talking 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:08.760 about how dangerous it will be once you get there. Um, 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.919 the last bit is, uh, the actual arrival at Mars 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:18.040 pretty dangerous because it's hard to land something on Mars um, 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:22.160 largely because Martian atmosphere is very, very thin. Yeah, there's 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:25.200 not a lot to it. So uh, using a parachute 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.160 will only slow you down so much you would think, oh, 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.720 that's only the gravity, How hard could it be? Well, 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.120 it's pretty you know, you're traveling at an incredible speed. 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.360 You have to slow yourself down. Uh, and the parachute 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.639 is not going to slow you down enough to have 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.600 necessarily a safe landing with astronauts on board. Now, if 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:45.600 I recall, I think when they landed the Curiosity rover, 0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:49.320 it had to have multiple different stages of deceleration in 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:52.879 the atmosphere. Right, it had I'm just going off memory. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:56.399 I think it had parachutes and it had retrorockets. That's right. Yeah, 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.359 First it would it positioned itself so that the large 0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:05.200 surface area was facing the ground, which helps slow it down. Yeah, 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.040 it had a parachute that helps slow it down a 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:12.000 little more. And then it used thrusters to counteract the 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:15.200 falling and so it could lower itself down easily. And 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:19.960 keep in mind, all of that was accomplished with pre programming, 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:23.920 because it was fourteen minutes before we knew whether or 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.600 not it worked, So it had been on the ground 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.360 for fourteen minutes before we even knew that it managed 0:19:30.440 --> 0:19:33.080 to to land on Mars safely. Now, of course, with 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:36.200 a human manned trip to Mars, that's not an issue. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:39.560 You would actually have people there who could uh interact 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.720 with whatever uh spacecraft they had, so if they needed 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.959 to make adjustments on the fly, they could, they wouldn't 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:49.920 have to wait for commands back from Earth to do so. 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:52.399 So there's that. But I mean, we've already managed to 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:56.919 do it with an you know, a semi autonomous vehicle. Uh, 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:01.800 So that is support for a Mars mission. Saying well, 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.040 we we've accomplished what most people would say was, I 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:10.800 think freaking crazy is an appropriate phrase. We managed to 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:13.639 do it already, So that's that's kind of a check 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.240 in the positive column. Right, Okay, But so once we 0:20:17.320 --> 0:20:21.359 get the astronauts to the planet, then everything is pretty easy, right, No, 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:26.880 not at all? Nohere then atmosphere not to mention, it's 0:20:26.960 --> 0:20:30.680 not oxygen richly. You can't breathe it anyway. It's carbon 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:34.000 dioxide rich not good for us, not at all. You 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:37.120 get big, like you were talking about earlier big dust 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:39.919 storms on Mars, so you can have gigantic dust storms 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.159 that cover the whole planet. Not to mention, some of 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.720 that dust on Mars is now believed to be highly 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.800 toxic to humans. Like you wouldn't want to be You 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.680 wouldn't want to get it stuck anywhere in your suit 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:52.879 and bring it into the habitat. Yeah, that dust can 0:20:52.920 --> 0:20:56.040 have a lot of perchlorates and that which can can 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:58.600 be very toxic. Um. You know, they were talking about 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:01.439 stuff that has chlorine in it. Chlorine is a is 0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:04.720 a is toxic to humans. So yeah, anything where you'd 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.159 be tracking that dustin or anything that could end up 0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.840 being uh uh, you know, not completely secure against it 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:15.760 could end up creating severe health hazards. Mars is super 0:21:15.840 --> 0:21:18.800 cold to be kind of like living in Antarctica, yeah, 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:23.040 kind of. So the temperatures on Mars very depending upon 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.600 where you are, kind of like on Earth. Yeah, the 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.080 average temperature is about minus eighty fahrenheit, which is about 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.880 minus sixty celsius, which is anyone who has been out 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:36.399 on even a mildly cold day would say, wow, that's 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.920 gotta be you know, that's gonna be almost instant death. 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:44.280 That's so cold. Uh that. But again it varies. So 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.760 if you're at the equator at noon, Mars might reach 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:51.080 a high of about seventy degrees fahrenheit twenty celsius, which is, 0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:53.840 that's nice. That's a nice day. I would love that. 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:56.840 But at the polls the low is about minus two 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.840 hundred twenty five fahrenheit or minus one fifty three elsius. 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:03.520 Not a good day. So don't go to the poles. 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:05.840