WEBVTT - Part Four: Crass: How Some Hippies Reinvented Punk and Changed the World 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:06.880 Cool Media. Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:10.039 Cool Stuff, a podcast that is sometimes recorded. Well, Margaret's 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:13.400 dog licks her hand and then Margaret has to move 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.440 her hand away from the dog, and then Margaret thinks, 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:19.800 rather than not have this be the introduction, it will 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.119 be the introduction. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and this 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:24.240 is Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. And my guest 0:00:24.840 --> 0:00:25.560 is really Holland. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:30.000 Hi. Hello, so deeply psyched to be here. Thanks for 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:30.440 having me. 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:33.800 Yeah, I'm excited to have you here. And I'm like, oh, 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:35.720 I'm talking faster, and that's probably because I ate a 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.800 banana in between breaks. And one thing I like about 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:40.440 Crass is that they don't really do drugs or drink, 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:43.159 because I also don't. But then instead I eat sugar 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.600 and then my pace of talking begins to go up. 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:51.400 And that's so benign that you're like, You're like, sugar 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.200 rush is a banana. It wasn't like it wasn't like 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:56.640 a little Debbie or something. 0:00:57.360 --> 0:01:01.840 Yeah, well I ran out of the sweets in my house. Besides, 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.920 fruit is what happened. And there's a snowstorm coming tomorrow 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:07.440 as I record this, so I will just be forced 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.040 to eat fruit, which is very good to deal with, Sugar. 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.000 But I think everyone probably knows who you are and 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:17.160 who I am by part four, and you might even, 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:19.959 dear listener, know who Crass is a little bit. But 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:22.760 we're going to talk about them more because where we 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:26.760 last left off, they had started a band and then 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.479 an arcopunk had become a serious movement, only I hadn't 0:01:29.480 --> 0:01:33.160 told you what it was doing yet. So as the 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.440 seventies closed, oh geez, what will I do without Sophie. 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:40.199 Sophie's usually is our producer, but just isn't on the call, 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.800 and I almost forgot to say that Sophie's our producer, 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:45.000 and more importantly that everyone has to say hi to Rory, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:45.640 our audio. 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:47.880 Engineer, Hi, Rory, Rory Hello. 0:01:49.080 --> 0:01:51.600 And our theme music was written forced by a woman 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.760 who once got an entire steampunk convention kicked out of 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:56.840 a bar. It was actually funny because then un woman 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:01.240 was headlining the main stage of that particular convention, but 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.080 as a solo act, not as a terrible Crass cover band. 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:10.560 Anyway, I want to hear like rehearsal tapes of that band. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.640 The best you can do is that there is a 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.360 version from that convention of all three of us playing 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:22.160 Bellachow from the main stage, and so I suspect that 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:25.960 if you look up Bellachow on Woman on YouTube, it 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.560 might still be there and you can. Why did I 0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:30.920 just tell everyone that it was not my best but 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.720 anyway whatever. I used to make my music playing accordion 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:36.240 on the street, but I was never good at it. 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.600 I just didn't. I had an accordion and was broke. 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:45.160 The accordion is such a beautiful prop and that's all 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:48.080 you need. Do you see this, Hold a beautiful instrument 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.840 and be a beacon of sound. 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.320 Yeah, it's a really good busking instrument because it is 0:02:55.400 --> 0:03:00.360 loud and slightly. In punk scenes, it's like cliche. But 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.880 when you're out on the street, people are like, holy shit, 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:06.639 and accordion. I haven't seen one since my granddad's accordion. 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:08.919 And then they're like, here's a dollar, and I'm like, sweet, 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:11.520 thank you. And that's a thing that happens. 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.480 But that's all you need, just need them to give 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:15.120 you the money. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:21.160 Yeah, exactly. As the seventies closed the idea of punk 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:23.880 as a broad musical label that might include bands like 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.200 The Cure and Bauhaus. Right next to the slits and 0:03:26.240 --> 0:03:32.400 the cockney rejects that ended specific subgenres started things started 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.120 getting very more like particular and specific, which is it 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.520 happens constantly to every genre, and it's both good and 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.880 bad and equal measure, you know. And one of the 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.600 main subgenres of punk, especially in the UK, was a 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:52.680 narco punk, which basically meant sounds like crass. There's also 0:03:52.720 --> 0:03:55.440 OI that came out at around that time, which started off 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:58.840 pretty leftist but then has earned a right wing reputation 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:02.280 and is more into catchy songs and working class anthems. 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.760 And I really like OI. I have to admit it 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:09.640 is more my style and taste, not politically. But anyway, 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:12.119 there's some good oy bands. So this isn't a story 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:16.240 about OI. It's a story about anarco punk Crass. They 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.359 really did walk the walk. Their albums started selling rather well, 0:04:21.160 --> 0:04:23.080 and they simply pooled all of their money and then 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:26.200 gave themselves about five hundred pounds a year as an allowance, 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:29.520 and then all lived in dial house together. And I 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:33.040 think that's like minus the like food and whatever stuff 0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:33.800 they need, you know. 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:39.440 They gave themselves five hundred pounds a year to live on. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:42.720 Well, I think they're living expenses is that they are 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:45.599 in Crass and live at Dial House, so it's like 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:47.040 five hundred pounds on top. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:48.760 Of that it's a tip. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.839 Yeah, totally, that's not enough. 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:53.960 You know. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:59.279 In the end, I think they probably agreed. They didn't 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.559 let mass me do interviews with them besides like once 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:05.359 or twice if the if the interviewer like really proved them, 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:07.159 because they didn't have a rule like we won't do 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.440 mass media. They had a rule where like we have 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:11.919 to trust the journalists or whatever, and it's just like 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.360 they almost never did, and they gave fanzines interviews constantly, 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:19.960 and so they said no to basically every mainstream journalist 0:05:20.040 --> 0:05:24.200 and yes to basically every fanzine. So fanzine sales started 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.640 rising dramatically and the number of fanzines started going through 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:32.080 the roof. They would spend every Tuesday answering fan mail. 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.720 They responded to about two hundred letters a week, and 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.120 they would like refuse to answer with like form letters, 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.279 so they'd just sit around and divvy up the letters 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:40.880 and write the people. 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.960 Can we imagine any big band doing anything like this? Now? 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.880 No? And this is like they are out selling ACDC 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:50.680 and they. 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.960 Are doing this, A that's amazing. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:56.880 Yeah, it would be like I don't know whoever, I 0:05:56.880 --> 0:05:59.800 don't I clearly don't know what we call it new. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.719 I don't know who's currently the people who would be 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:03.279 comparable to. 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.919 But can you imagine, Okay, so if they were bigger 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.839 than ACDC at the time, can you imagine you're driving 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:14.480 across Utah or whatever and you turn on the radio 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.880 and it's crass and not ACDC. 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.000 Yeah, but it can never be because they cuss so much. 0:06:20.200 --> 0:06:22.720 But yeah, but that same level of like they are 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:26.600 bigger despite being underground, so which is probably why they 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:29.039 have kind of a like being underground is better because 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:30.800 it's working for them, you know. 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:33.520 I imagine. 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:37.279 I'm trying to think about different ways that artists could 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:44.120 draw lines with media, and yeah, one proposition is we 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:48.880 just talk about music because I feel like so much 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.599 music journalism is just all about. 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.400 Gossip and oh yeah, totally, and it. 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.400 Often gets incredibly misogynistic. 0:06:58.200 --> 0:06:59.640 I wonder if you could just be like, I will 0:06:59.640 --> 0:07:03.080 only talk about my music or my political positions and 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:06.480 just like not talk about like who you're dating or whatever. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:06.800 You know. 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:12.560 Yeah, I mean I've seen so sort of worse. 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:18.080 Like you know, I had this one band where one 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:23.360 of the bandmates admittedly had a fantastic beard, and literally 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:26.960 this interviewer only wanted. 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:29.280 To talk to the guitarist about his beard. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.000 Oh my god, uh huh, yeah, it. 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:36.400 Gets it gets stupider than even like your proposal seemed 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:40.760 to suggest, or like late lately, I've seen and this 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.600 makes me. This is so upsetting to me. I've seen 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:48.920 press about bands like major press only talk about the 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:54.000 supposed mental health of the lead singer who is a woman. 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:54.880 Totally. 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.040 Yeah, it's it's so depressing. 0:07:58.160 --> 0:08:01.800 It's like, yeah, it's it's fantastically progressive. 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:07.520 Absolutely, I love the like when I do interviews, when 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.040 I with Feminoschool, when we would do interviews, I loved 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.440 because it was almost always there was a couple mainstream 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.480 pieces about us, but not much. And just like the 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.080 fanzine journalists, especially like weird punk and metal fanzines from 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:22.760 Europe would have amazing questions even if it had to 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:27.360 be like translated in both directions or whatever, And so 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:32.480 Crass would spend Wednesdays Tuesdays answer letters. Wednesdays, fanzine journalists 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.960 would come over and a lot of people I think 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.800 only created fanzines literally as an excuse to meet and 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:40.560 talk to Krass, and they just let people do it. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:43.319 They knew that was happening, they didn't care. That's great 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:47.680 and their stencyl campaign spread to listeners because they would 0:08:47.679 --> 0:08:50.160 include stencils and the leaflets that they passed out and 0:08:50.200 --> 0:08:53.320 teach people how to spray paint. And then in nineteen 0:08:53.400 --> 0:08:56.480 eighty they released a benefit split with the Poison Girls 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:58.679 that was meant to benefit a bunch of anarchists who 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.160 are on trial because of this sum. There was this 0:09:01.440 --> 0:09:05.880 case that was called the Person's Unknown Case, and I 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:07.880 don't have the full sense of it. It gets into 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.720 the Angry Brigade, it gets into Irish politics, it gets 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:14.360 into lots of complicated stuff, and I read a few 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.079 sources about it and they all kind of seemed to 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.640 disagree with each other about what it was about. But overall, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.560 there was this case that happened where a bunch of 0:09:21.760 --> 0:09:25.280 people were arrested as terrorists, including like some like like 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:27.480 an IRA person or a person accused of mean part 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.200 of the IRA was arrested and then accused of killing 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.800 Northern Irish cops, but then started being supported by anarchist 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.520 Black Cross and became an anarchist in jail. And there 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:40.360 was this whole thing where like it basically seems like 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.320 the UK cops were terrified that the IRA was going 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:46.440 to move more anarchists, and they started like rounding people 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:48.319 up or whatever. And four people got put on trial 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.640 or five I've read both by different sources, and having 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:54.280 anarchist literature was considered proof of guilt in this case 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:58.680 that was happening. So Crass and Poison Girls released a 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:03.560 benefit for the person's unknown case and the name comes 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:05.480 from the persons were known, the four people who are 0:10:05.520 --> 0:10:07.640 on trial or the five people are on trial, but 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:12.360 they were accused of conspiring with persons unknown. So literally 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:14.800 it was a case where like, you are being accused 0:10:14.800 --> 0:10:16.960 of conspiring with we don't know who about, we don't 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:17.160 know what. 0:10:18.360 --> 0:10:21.120 Oh that sounds extremely illegal. 0:10:21.800 --> 0:10:28.000 Yeah, and shockingly including in Thatcher's fucking UK. The defendants 0:10:28.000 --> 0:10:31.040 were all found not guilty, or four of them were 0:10:31.120 --> 0:10:32.600 on one of them, I keep keep again, I read 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:36.920 a bunch of different things whatever, and so they were like, Okay, 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.680 we don't need this ten thousand pounds we just raised, 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:42.800 and so they they looked at Northern Ireland, which had 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:44.800 an anarchist center, which I want to know more about. 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:46.520 I want to know more about Northern Ireland as being 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:48.439 kind of a center of UK anarchism for a while. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.040 And they were like, London should have an anarchist center, 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:55.720 and we have ten thousand pounds. So they opened a 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.559 short lived place called the Autonomy Center. Only they spelled 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:00.480 center wrong because they're British and they don't know a spell, 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.040 and they I had to make at least one joke 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.839 about this. It's just I'm constitutionally incapable of not making 0:11:06.840 --> 0:11:07.600 fun of the British. 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:08.840 Got to talk some shit. 0:11:09.480 --> 0:11:13.960 Yeah, And it was a rented warehouse space that they 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:17.559 shared with an anarchist print collective called Little A. Every 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.680 Sunday they put on punk shows six bands for a pound, 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:23.079 and like people would come over it, you know, and 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.640 they made their money on that by beer sales, basically. 0:11:27.800 --> 0:11:30.199 Steve Ignorant complains later about how it was all just 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.480 a bunch of people sitting around talking about Bakunin. So 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.640 he didn't really like the Autonomy Center very much. 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:35.880 Boring. 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:39.800 Yeah, sorry, that the place that once a week you 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:41.360 get to go see six bands for a pound and 0:11:41.440 --> 0:11:46.280 drink like whatever. Anyway, the Autonomy Center itself only lasted 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:51.520 about six months, but this version of social centers spread also. 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.080 In nineteen eighty, You've got this fun event that I 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:57.040 really wish I could find more information about. And when 0:11:57.080 --> 0:11:59.439 I say fun, that gets quotes, But me wanting to 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.480 learn more about is true. Remember us talking about the 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:06.640 Stonehenge festivals that their friend had started, like several episodes ago, 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.120 where Wally was like, we're all gonna go squat Stonehenge. 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.760 That sounds so flaky. 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:16.439 They kept happening. The Stonehenge festivals lasted almost a decade, 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.640 and in nineteen eighty Krass was like, all right, well, 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.000 we're going to bring punk to it. And not just Krass, 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.199 the Poison Girls and a bunch of other punk bands 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:26.240 were like, We're going to go play the Stonehenge Festival, 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.160 and the punks are going to come because it's a radical, 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:33.480 free culture event. Why not. So in the crowd was 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.000 a biker gang who took a fence to the punks 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.680 and attacked them. And this is a very like story 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:41.960 as all this time. At first, the bikers stormed the 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.920 stage during one of the other punk bands and said 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.360 that they weren't going to tolerate punks at their festival, 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:47.840 and then they just like beat up all the punks. 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:49.600 They just like went around and like beat everyone up, 0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:53.200 and it was like a beating up massacre, where like 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:55.240 punks were like running away into the woods and being 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.480 chased by bikers and beating up. It's actually really bad 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:03.240 to quote Penny and Boa about it. Quote. Weeks later, 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:06.679 a hippie news sheet defended the bikers, saying that they 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.840 were an anarchist group who had misunderstood our motives. So 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:15.120 maybe the bikers thought that the punks were all fascists. 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:16.840 I don't know. 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:23.600 Yeah, indecipherable. There's gotta be okay, there's there's gotta be 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:25.600 people obviously. 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:30.439 Who know who're at it. Yeah, yeah, so who. 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:35.280 Have some more informed perspectives. So let's hear from y'all. 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.480 Yeah, Because even when I found things about the history 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.120 of the Stonehenge festival, they were just quoting Penny Rombau 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.040 from the same source that I was able to find it. 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:47.000 There's not a lot of people talking about this happening, 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.040 and there's even people saying like this sounds like a 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:51.959 huge big deal. When you read the book, the story 0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:54.760 of Krass about it, but then other people talking about 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:57.200 the Stonehenge festivals are like, how come no one else 0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.400 talks about that? And so like, maybe I think it happened, 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:04.280 but I don't feel like I totally know the story. 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.160 I know I've met a couple of old punks from 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:09.680 that from those days in England. 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:13.000 Yeah, if you find out, we'll go back and edit 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.160 in a further explanation here. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:17.160 Nice. 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.200 So, either way, both Crass and Poison Girls were unable 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.000 to play. Penny clearly wasn't having a good time at 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.000 the festival his friend started because the last time he 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:29.800 was there it also went really badly. But Crass is 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:33.480 growing still and they just get bigger and bigger because 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:39.680 DIY advertising, unlike mainstream advertising. The way that mainstream advertising 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.120 is that in the middle of your podcast, the host, 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:45.280 regardless of how they feel about what's about to happen, 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:47.800 just pivots to ads. 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:58.840 Masterfully, thank you, and we're back. 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:04.240 So nineteen eighty one, a reviewer said, quote, you come 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.640 across Crass in every place you look. They rarely play 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.000 and hardly ever advertise. They live outside the music business, 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:13.640 and they're far more successful than most people inside it. 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.800 They don't need to promote themselves because they're following does 0:15:16.840 --> 0:15:20.320 that for them? Their logos on one hundred thousand black 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.360 leather jackets and their name is sprayed on town halls 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:28.080 and bus stops from Amsterdam to Aberdeen. Crass records regularly 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.800 sell well in excess of the figures achieved by outfits 0:15:30.840 --> 0:15:34.680 whose faces adorn the megastore displays, yet next to nothing 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:36.160 is known of them. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:43.400 It is so important to look outside of the parameters 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:47.960 of the music industry because the way it's set up 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:54.720 is like a cattle choote and the musicians are the livestock. 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.320 Yeah. 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.320 I mean, I know some musicians who've had a fair 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:06.880 amount of success through the industry, But the creativity of 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:12.040 artists can be applied as well to how we make 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:17.240 a living. Yeah, And uh, there's just there's no one way. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:20.360 There is no one way to be an artist anything, totally, 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:25.880 and the industry only knows the way that's going to 0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.040 make them the most money. So it's up to every 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:34.119 single artist to be creative about how we survive. 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.400 Yeah. And like when you work with mainstream stuff, which 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.800 you can do, you just have to be really aware 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:42.600 of what's happening. You have to be really aware of 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:46.680 that it's not your only thing. It's like not the 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.720 only way to be a musician. You can be You 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:52.200 can engage with different labels at different levels at different 0:16:52.240 --> 0:16:53.960 times and then back out of it, like you know, 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:56.240 you can like well, I mean they try and stick 0:16:56.280 --> 0:16:59.160 you contractually, but like, there's lots of ways of doing. 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:02.000 It, and so you have to be extremely wary of 0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.879 things that are independent as well, and don't just trust 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.480 that like because they're punk or because they have a 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:14.680 certain aesthetic or background that they will have the same 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:16.000 ethics as you. 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:21.280 I think totally your community totally. And another thing that 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:23.440 Crass got to do is they pulled off a bunch 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.840 of really funny pranks, which is of course they did 0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.600 one of their better ones. So they released this album 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:34.119 called Penis Envy that was an intentionally like feminist piece. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:37.399 It was maybe their first like concept album or whatever. 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:40.480 It centered the women of the band. Also the men 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:42.600 in the band would do shit like write songs about 0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:44.880 rediscovering how to be a man in a more feminist way. 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.560 Like they were actually had really good nuanced gender politics 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:50.880 as far as they can tell. And there's a song 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:54.960 that they did on penis Envy called Our Wedding, and 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.160 it is this over the top love song about getting married. 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:02.080 It's like a satire of marriage. The lyrics include things 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:05.720 like never look at anyone, anyone but me, never look 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:08.840 at anyone. I must be all you see, set to 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:10.639 like sweet organ music or whatever. 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:14.719 Right, it is so creepy it is, yeah, and you 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:20.080 could play that at lots of Christian Nationalists' weddings. 0:18:20.760 --> 0:18:24.480 And that's basically what they realized is they were like, 0:18:25.119 --> 0:18:27.840 I wonder if we can trick someone into releasing this earnestly, 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:32.199 and so they wrote a teen girl magazine called Loving 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:35.879 who loved this new song by Joida Viv, which is 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:39.320 one of the Crass singers, and it was published by 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.480 According to them, when Krass wrote, they were like, oh, 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.320 is this new song by Joida Viv published by Creative 0:18:45.359 --> 0:18:48.280 Recording and Sound Services Crass. 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:53.960 A Oh so good, I know. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.359 And it's like a that's like a seamless acronym like 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:58.560 that that wouldn't raise any red flags if. 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.640 I saw that, you know, and warms my heart. 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.200 And so Loving Magazine agreed to release the single free 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.440 to any of their readers who would send them a stamp, 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.000 and then they told their readers that the single would 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.920 quote make your wedding day just that extra bit special. 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:18.720 Joy de Vive has captured all the happiness and romance 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.160 of that all important big day, your wedding, So make 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.760 sure you send off for your copy and time for 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:29.840 that grand occasion. It's a must for all true romantics. 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:33.720 It's so eerie. I was listening to it as I 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:38.200 was walking my dog this morning, and yeah, I feel 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:42.520 like one of my bandmate's sisters is in a really 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:46.439 intense church and he talked about her wedding and the 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:52.159 vows reminded me of that song. So it's a yeah, 0:19:53.680 --> 0:20:01.200 I really appreciate Crass's take on the patriarchy and religion. Yeah, 0:20:02.280 --> 0:20:06.240 it's something that really really deserves to be roasted hard. 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:10.080 And I think that I really love how feminists they 0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:13.200 were at the gate, Like I love that, like because 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:14.480 that's I mean, that's one of the things that you 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.840 don't when I imagine old punk. I'm not immediately like, ah, 0:20:18.000 --> 0:20:22.400 good feminist politics, you know, but like many of them did, 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:26.560 and certainly cross and when the magazine found out that 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.800 they got pranked, they were really mad. And Penny just 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:31.879 told them that their magazines and others like it were 0:20:31.960 --> 0:20:35.880 quote absolutely obscene and despicable. They exploit people in aggressive 0:20:35.880 --> 0:20:37.040 and unpleasant manner. 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:38.440 That's true. 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:40.439 They hadn't broken any laws, and they did not. 0:20:40.720 --> 0:20:44.119 And yeah, it sounds if you listen to the song, 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:48.400 like it really could just be played on the radio 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.800 as like a love song. Uh yeah, because that's how 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:56.680 patriarchal so many love songs are. I mean, it's very 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.880 like it's very phil Spectory in a way. 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:02.920 I don't know Phil Specter as I feel terrible about 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:04.040 that he. 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.520 Was a he was a murderer. 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:08.440 Uh oh shit, okay? 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:12.680 Who who was like a really important producer? 0:21:13.280 --> 0:21:14.240 Oh fuck okay? 0:21:14.600 --> 0:21:17.920 And like he like he was part of I don't 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:21.000 know fully, but because I I write off people who 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:24.119 are total pieces of shit sometimes and it's hard to 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.159 really remember everything about them. But like I think he 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:31.520 created the wall of sound. If that rings a bell, it's. 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:33.879 Just like really like the concept of like what a 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:35.840 lot of the like no wave bands and stuff were 0:21:35.880 --> 0:21:38.480 doing of Like it's kind of as loud as possible. 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:44.159 I love your misinterpretation of that. No, like no, it 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:48.240 was it was like a sixties sound esthetic. 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:52.560 Okay, Okay, no, I don't know it, but what I 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.600 do know about No, it's not time for an ad break. 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.000 I'll just keep reading the thing. So yeah, they hadn't 0:21:58.000 --> 0:22:01.240